Interview With Founder Of Ionic Systems Ltd. How WFP Came To The UK
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- In this interview I talk to Craig Mawlam, the founder of Ionic Systems Ltd about how he brought water fed pole window cleaning to the UK, how electrocutions have happened and how poles can be improved with regard to safety along with much more.
If you are interested in any of Ionic Systems Ltd products here's the link.
www.ionicsyste...
Electrical Safety advice from The British Window Academy;
Always conduct a risk assessment for every job, Look Out, Look Up for electrical hazards.
Wet surfaces increase the risk of electrocution, take particular care on rainy days.
Never use waterfed poles during electrical storms.
Never lift a pole away from upstairs windows for rinsing.
Never remove glass fibre handle sections to save weight.
Poles made entirely from Glass Fibre are your friend and should be used on any property where insulated overhead powerlines serve the property.
Pure water does NOT conduct electricity, check filter systems regularly and always use the purest 0ppm water.
What an absolutely incredible interview and video, Dave
First & foremost, thank you for your service and secondly your trailblazing approach to safety within the industry
Awesome video! Ionic has been leading the way since the beginning. It’s clear how much Craig values safety in his products-great to see!
Lovely interview, Dave. Thank you for your tenacity at bringing this WFP safety issue to the fore.
Thanks Duncan 👍
What a great interview! Thanks for getting Craig on your channel Dave! I am certainly going to look into the Ionic products from now on. Safety first!
Thanks Dan 👍
Their poles aren't any safer than a Gardiners pole they both have insulated base sections, the only difference is the warning about electrocution and safety standard stamp, which isn't going to save anyone if they touch any other section of their pole in the event of an incident.
What an absolutely amazing man. At last someone taking the risks we take every single day seriously. I will definitely be investing it that pole as soon as it hits the market. Peace of mind and an extended life is worth whatever cost this pole would be. Thanks Dave for keeping us up to date with Jason's story, and for going that extra mile by helping to make our industry better and safer through your channel. Chapeau Sir!
Thanks Martynb👍
Well done Dave and Craig this is a topic that needs attention and get us all thinking about managing risk
Thanks Dave.....Hmm! Very informative!
This subject has definitely got my attention, and has made me more aware of what is going on above my head especially when the pole is extended....Top quality interview 👍🏻
👍 Thanks Bud
Great interview thanks Dave 👍 nice man, safety definitely has to be made a priority. on my longest pole i have opted for many extensions going from #5 to #9 rather than just buying a bigger pole. This does make the pole heavier, however each extension is insulated. One solution for now would be to buy slightly smaller pole than you need but with an extra extension
Great idea 👍
This brilliant Dave
Thanks Bud 👍
Did a traditional window cleaning course 1 day with Craig back in around 1996 - Swindon - great day - at the end of the day he showed us this new method from USA for cleaning windows!
We did that course and a WFP course 17 years ago when we started
I had an Ionic pole back in 2004.
That have cone a long way since then 👍
Dave iv been in the industry for 20+ years now, i have watched your videos and although i have been aware of the risk of electrocution this has been a real eye opener. I have more questions than answers, do we know how many guys in the UK have been electrocuted in say the last 10 years by the window cleaning pole against lets say fishing poles. I ware gloves, always have done and i wonder if the is any protection in that which could be a more realist and affordable direction to go. Thanks Dave this is been an eye opener to make me more aware .PS when my staff and i did our NVQ 1& 2 i dont remember this being covered.
@@alankopitko5335 you can get gloves that will protect you but I’m not sure how good they are for actually working in. Normal gloves don’t do a lot with higher voltages.
Thank you Dave this is a very attractive Information about Safety Measures I donate same to Jason to get a good recovery I hope he is doing well Thank You to you Dave to keeps us informed and some body dedicate it to built a better options to Handle those hardcases also thank you Graig for all those Issues about Safety. I hope The Water Pole Industry dedicate at the time to built any pole to avoid any accident in the future by for Window Cleaning Industry People to all of you thank you..!!!
Thanks buddy 👍
So interesting
Thanks Dave for bring this issue to the masses and educating us all and thanks to Craig for all he has done.
Just to clarify things 'BS 8020:2011 Tools for live working. Specification for insulating hand tools for work on or near conductor rail systems operating at voltages up to 1000 V a.c. or 1500 V d.c.' It is not a BS for window cleaning poles safety for overhead cables. In the UK overhead powerlines that are within the range of most wfp can be 240vac, 11Kv or 33Kv, so while a pole certified to 1000v would protect against 240vac it wont protect against 11Kv or 33Kv. Using a BS is good but might be misleading as windys' might think they are safef from touching any overhead cable if the bottom 2 sections are insulated.
I'm not trying to be negative and I really do appreciate all the efforts you have gone to but it would be better if it's possible to better protected against the higher voltages.
Hi, and thanks for your input. As it stands there is no British Standard or any other standard in any other jurisdiction specifically for Window cleaning poles but at the same time there is no higher standard than BS:8020:2011 for hand tools for work on or near conductor rail systems, emphasis on 'near'. In practical terms when tested with 10,000volts no current passes through a BS:8020 handle (our test rig goes up to 12,000v and 12kv doesn't pass either). Testing any 2mtr long handle with say 33kv would be both very dangerous and technically difficult in the average factory setting, that kind of energy is going to ground at any point it can within 2 metres so it will bypass the product you are trying to test. The 2 UK fatalities in 2022 and then Jason's accident in April this year has shown that it is indeed time for a standard specifically for window cleaning poles, the existing BS8020:2011 standard by means of a simple amendment would be a good vehicle for this.. Currently there is a small but increasing number of industry professionals dedicated to this cause. The aim is not to produce poles that can be rested against overhead power lines without fear of death, rather it is to create and industry standard to protect any pole user who may unknowingly come too close to a high voltage overhead power line. The safe distance for such power lines is 2-3mtrs (depends who you speak to) but it is clear the further the better, waterfed pole manufacturers could increase that safe distance by a further 3 meters by fitting 2 x BS:8020:2011 sections to the base of every carbon fibre and hybrid pole they sell. An all glass fibre waterfed pole is always the safest option but they too should have BS:8020 handle sections x2 for the sake of clarity. This also applies to gutter cleaning poles, Ionic's roof wand had 2 BS:8020:2011 base sections from the get go, much greater risk here. Every Ionic waterfed pole carries a unique serial number and users are encouraged to register their pole for warranty purposes but mostly to access important safety information particularly about electrical safety. We obtain an electronic 'read and understood' signature for 80% of the poles we sell, education is also important. In Jason's own words, "the accident happened when I grabbed the 2nd section". Having 2 base sections that bear the BS:8020:2011 logo is a practical way to dramatically reduce the risk whilst serving as a constant reminder to "Look Out and Look Up'" for overhead power lines. We now have MP's engagement in this process, there is another industry meeting next month and progress is being made. If you are reading this and believe this is a worthy cause then you could help by encouraging your chosen supplier to get on board and give their input, some are not. These awful accidents are happening worldwide, one in Canada earlier this year too. British manufacturers have the opportunity to lead the world in this move for greater safety, please add your voice.
Electrical Safety advice from The British Window Academy;
Always conduct a risk assessment for every job, Look Out, Look Up for electrical hazards.
Wet surfaces increase the risk of electrocution, take particular care on rainy days.
Never use waterfed poles during electrical storms.
Never lift a pole away from upstairs windows for rinsing.
Never remove glass fibre handle sections to save weight.
Poles made entirely from Glass Fibre are your friend and should be used on any property where insulated overhead powerlines serve the property.
Pure water does NOT conduct electricity, check filter systems regularly and always use the purest 0ppm water.
Craig
@tihbm thanks very much for taking the time to reply. It is really appreciated all the great work you and others are doing to help protect us all. Thanks
@@tihbm👏👏👏🙌
I’ll be buying an ionic pole once this added safety measure is in place. A bit of extra weight is a small price for the peace of mind. I’d also rather support a business with this kind of integrity. I recently asked one of the other main manufacturers about Jason’s story and if they planned to insulate the second section or offer it as an option. They couldn’t have been less interested.
Which company was that?
That's a real shame
I would be interested to know which company that was mate? It beggers belief that only one pole manufacturer has taken the initiative to make the industry safer. Profit over safety in my opinion. 😤
Hesitant to name them here - let’s just say it’s the most obvious one you probably know of.
I had several emails with them and also shared links to Dave’s earlier videos where he interviews Jason. It was clear they either weren’t aware of the story or didn’t want to acknowledge it.
They basically fobbed me off me as if I was just being paranoid, telling me all the reasons why improving things wasn’t feasible (or required).
@@WRAYExterior That's absolutely fine mate. I totally get where your coming from. But, I can 100% guarantee that the main WFP manufacturers (i wont mention names either) are well aware of Jason's story. The big hitters just wont acknowledge that their product isn't as safe as they market it to be. Craig at Ionics is the only one that has gone all in, and is already on the cusp of rolling out an improved product to market. I for one will be at the front of the queue when it arrives. I also hope that Jason keeps hammering away and that eventually, the rest of the industry standard fronts up and puts our safety first and foremost. Its sad that so many still put their bottom line and profit margins above all else.
Maybe just have a specific pole marketed/advertised to be safe near electrical overhead power cables, then that would be factored into the risk assessment and method statements. Rather than try and change every pole. I hope I will be more observant after watching this video thanks for the info.
Great interview, Really interesting....But, what if your only extending or reducing one of the uppermost sections from the lowest and not the second section then surely the circuit would also be complete and an incident could occur. Would rubber gloves or similar help or reduce the possibility?
If rubber gloves are not an option due to comfort or a practical issue, is there an insulating resin or polyethylene type coating that could be applied in the extrusion process?
I to use to clean via rope access/abseil techniques...even did the early IRATA courses. Myself and my climbing buddy did it part time to get money for climbing trips abroad. We never got questioned on our knowledge or skill set when on site, just produced our H&S policy and Public Liability Insurance, which was pretty cheap for window cleaning in those days. I can't even remember doing Risk Assessments then... Some structures began to place anchor points for us, but that was about it ! Poles dried up the work eventually....;0)
There is always a risk in some way. the safest way is to use a fully glass fibre pole but in my opinion if its that much of a problem I just walk away
@ are Hybrid poles safer Dave, or does it make no difference sir?
@@chaseybears I don't know to be honest. its something to look into
I was just going to type same response interesting video but sounds like every section of pole would need to be insulated.
Profit is the only thing that they worry about mate