Lord Christ Jesus, bless you copiously Pastor John Piper! I praise Our Heavenly Father, Our Messiah, and The Holy Paraclet for your life and bountiful ministry. Amen
This is indeed what the Bible says. Pastor John is the innoculating syringe in the hand of the Great Physician's Spirit. I thankfully praise the Lord for faithful teachers! Thank you Lord Jesus! Thank you Dr John Piper and everyone at DGM!
Pastor John Piper you nailed it! Would explain why when you just mention God some people recoil instantly without thinking!! I would see 'sinning' as a 'expression' of our state and a blossom of our inclination.
At least in Britain we have beautiful old churches where the sense of wonder and deep history can elevate the proceedings, those responsible for music are genuinely gifted and the priest has the good taste and decency to talk for no longer that 10 minutes. People go because they genuinely find pleasure and derive meaning from their worship and the theological indoctrination takes back seat to the mystical experience. It’s thoroughly civilised and humane.
To me it is loving things that can't love you back in other words the the things of this world the Bible so vehemently says we should reject. From what I have seen Satan is fashioning a new golden calf every second for us to put on the throne that should only belong to Jesus the only one who will love us back with an unimaginable grace beyond the full comprehension of man.
The essence and root of all sin is the objection and intolerance of creatures toward the right and authority of God to sovereignly do whatever he pleases, in that he can and does decide to withhold from us satisfying pleasure in himself and yet also demands that we not seek supreme, satisfying pleasure in anything else. In other words, as creatures made in the image of God with an indomitable desire for pleasure at all times, we cannot live without the pursuit of pleasure so if we are not enjoying God our Creator supremely for satisfaction, which is something he must grant and we cannot take or demand from him, then we are bound to seek it elsewhere yet we cannot ever fully grasp it elsewhere so we are always dependent on God while also being subject to his righteous ordinance to not do what we are bound to do if he withholds himself, namely seek satisfaction elsewhere. This makes all of us consciously or unconsciously angry, indifferent, and untrusting of God in our core because we want full control of our pleasure at all times and we don't cope well with being subject to God's will which very often includes depriving us of satisfaction, and we also don't want to be restrained under law from seeking satisfaction in any other pleasure that may be available to us, both of which are reasons why Lucifer sought to dethrone God and take the means and object of his satisfaction into his own hands when he was not fully experiencing pleasure all the time. Lucifer sinned because he was not fully satisfied in God and thus wanted to be God in order to seize control of his own satisfaction and not have to deal with repercussions for any desires and pursuits he may have. God condemned Lucifer for his sin (intolerance of God's sovereign prerogative and his plans to regulate pleasure by his own will rather than by the preference and wiring of creatures) and when banished, Lucifer became Satan and deceived Eve and Adam that they could take their satisfaction into their own hands knowing that they couldn't because he couldn't, and when Adam took the bait Satan became the spiritual master of all mankind, thus dominating our will and decisions with the rebellious attitude and preference that he has so that we cannot worship God because we like him are so angry and dissatisfied with God's nature and the way he runs the world and our lives, many times subjecting us to deprivation and pain in the name of his "good purposes," which we deny can be truly good because they don't align with ours. God will not and cannot yield to our preferences and demands in his nature, character, and the manner in which he rules, but he can give us new hearts that bow to his nature, preferences, and demands, and he does this miraculously and independently in our new birth when the Holy Spirit gives us a grand foretaste of the satisfaction that we long for in Jesus Christ when we hear the Gospel, if we are the elect, then last we are enabled to and will repent and place our faith in him so that we can begin enjoying him as we were made to. Everyone's problem with God that gave rise to sin is that we don't like how God applies his sovereignty when it includes displeasure being experienced and punishment upon us for how we respond to his depriving us of pleasure, and the only remedy is for God to give us sufficient foretastes of the complete satisfaction we long for which we then respond to in faith and worship up until the time when our nature is fully changed and made sinless and God's glorious presence and blessings can be fully enjoyed.
@@calebmills1446 Yes. Sin is basically the deception and prideful persistence of trying to obtain satisfaction and righteous status apart from the Creator God who designed us to only be satisfied in him and who alone is righteous and is able to make us righteous in his sight. The way sin manifests itself is complex, pervasive, and ugly and our only hope of deliverance is the Lord Jesus, so I pray that we all are granted that saving grace in Christ alone! ❤
Great word indeed yet I find scriptures such as Luke 6:35. 2 John 1:18 Titus 1:16 Colossians 3:23 - 24. Did Adam and Eve toil the soil (work) for the glory of God before sin entered the world. Should we be Generous, kind and love one another. As he has loved us. All these attributes are verbs all doing words all commendable in the eyes of God when done in Him with Him and for Him. Sin is not the King over the believer the Holy Spirit is. It is He who dwells within, where the light is the darkness shall not over come it. Have the light of the world live within, sin can not overcome Him. Let’s the cross be waisted. The victory belongs to Him and all who are chosen to be Sons of God. Sin was defeated at the cross. Take heart born again believers you are His, He is yours forever sin cannot and will not defeat you if you remain in Him.
The moral law are the 10 Commandments: 1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 🙏 1 John 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. 🙏 Mark 3:29 whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin. 🙏 😳
Would anyone know what work of Stephen Westerholm Pastor Piper is referring to I would be interested in reading it. :) Ah just found it in the transcript. It's "Justification Reconsidered".
I'll agree that all good deeds are 'as filthy rags', but we are created in God's image and I think even unregenerate people have a capacity to do good works due to the remnant of God's image that was stamped upon them. But I guess I'm not a 'total depravity' person. Like how would we ever come to desire God if our depravity were truly total?
My thoughts, not authoritative, just what I think. I think the short "answer" (assuming I am correct) to your question is Phil 2:12. The long "answer"... The flesh desires one thing, the Spirit desires another (Gal 5:17). We are slaves of EITHER sin or the Spirit (Rom 6:16, John 8:34) with no other options (we can't be our own master). I think the fundamental desire (either hate or love for God) that actions are predicated on do not come from us per say, but from sin or the Spirit (Rom 7:20, Phil 2:12, 1 Cor 15:10). With God still finding fault or justification with US particular (Rom 9:18-21, but this is a whole other conversation). Sin is a tyrannous slave driver (Rom 6:6) that gets its power from the command (1 Cor 15:56) AND something I can't quite put my finger on (more on that later). The command piece is something like, "I hate God and love NOT-God (core of our nature), Oh look, God said don't covet, I hate him, so now I will covet" (Rom 7:8). The caveat is God first "giving us up" (Rom 1:24). This is why the world isn't utter chaos, there are degrees of being "given up", God holds back our sin nature. We first get the Spirit by believing Jesus is the Christ (Acts 10). The only way we can believe is if the Holy Spirit reveals this to us (Matt 16:17, John 6:44). But how do we accept (believe) this if we are totally depraved and just hate God? The Holy Spirit may reveal it, but we be like, well I hate you, I won't believe it, I'll repress it (just like what John Piper said in the message). Add Phil 2:12+John 6:29+John 1:13 and say God creates it in you (John 1:12, NIV says "right to become" the word become, is the same word that's repeated 3 times in John 1:3, "made"). God literally CREATES belief in you (I think...being loved also helps in this). You don't deserve this, so it's grace. You didn't ask for it, He exercised divine prerogative just to do according to his own choice, but this gets us again into Romans 9 (a different conversation). Existence itself is a type of tyranny, but after that, the Spirit's desires get into us (remember it's not our desire, it's his) by it's indwelling (Phil 2:12, again). I don't think this is tyranny though, because the Spirit's desire is accepted through our love response (1 John 4:19, not tyranny, but as Jordan Peterson would describe it, "voluntary play"). With love as the motivator (John 14:15). I think we desire God THROUGH the Spirit's desire (or by accepting the Spirits desire). We take on that desire by receiving God's love and reflecting the love back to Him. The forces in us are then: Foundational sin (the exchange Piper mentions) has a desire to rebel and gains power through commands. Although not entirely distinct, it also gains force through the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, pain/difficulty, etc. For example, God may NOT have commanded you to not lie, but ease and comfort still generates a motivation/power to do so (I'm not clear on this). The first power of sin can be cut off because Paul argues that we are no longer under the law. The second power will remain, and it's usually associated with pain or suffering or difficulty, but we have a counter force that is greater for good. The other force for good is Love for Christ. God relationally loves us, we receive that love, internalize it, meditate on it, etc, and that generates (creates maybe?) love for God. We then say, "God I love you, what do you want?", the Spirit is like, well I desire this, and we move from there...I think it boils down to a love relationship with God verses pain (I like what Jordan Peterson says here "Sacrifice is the core of the community" - sacrifice or pain is unavoidable when more than one object exists in the same place, lets try to make the proper sacrifice that leads to life as opposed to death). I try to keep in mind that any desire for sin I have aren't MY desires, but sin's. It sort of helps me. I'm so sorry for the long response. Please if you have time, please let me know what you think, I've been trying to think about how to obey.
Romans 6:23 For the penalty for sin is death, (First John 1:8, and we all sin, and we all die) BUT the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE, through the new birth. The gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4. Ephesians 1:13-14. In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, In whom also AFTER ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30. And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Our guarantee of eternal life. Romans 8:9. Without the Spirit, (the new birth) there is no salvation. Some people say Paul preached a different gospel than Jesus. What did Jesus say? John 6:47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. What did Paul tell the Philippian Jailor? Acts 16:31. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and thy house. Same message. The gospel has never changed. First Corinthians 15:1-4 That Christ died for our sins, that He was buried and rose again the third day for our justification. Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the POWER of God unto salvation to EVERYONE that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Galatians 1:6-9. Though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. As we said before, so say I again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received from us, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. Galatians 2:21. I do not void the grace of God, for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ died for nothing. Romans 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him who JUSTIFIETH the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness. Just as David describeth the blessedness of the man to whom the Lord IMPUTETH righteousness APART FROM WORKS. Blessed is the man whose sins are covered, blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Romans 3:26-28. Where is boasting then? First John 2:2. Romans 5:19-21. Colossians 2:13. He has forgiven us ALL trespasses. Jesus paid the debt of sin we owe God and set us free. John 3:18.
How do we know we have eternal life? God said so. John 6:47. First John 5:13. These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. John 1:12. John 3:16-18. Jesus paid it all and we paid 0. Romans 11:6. Romans 1:16. Romans 5:19-21 Where sin abounds, grace much more abounds. You cannot boast in 0. Matthew 7:21-23. Those that have done the will of His Father have eternal life. John 6:40. And this is the will of Him who sent me, that All that seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life, and I WILL RAISE HIM UP ON THE LAST DAY. John 6:29. Jesus, answered, and said unto them, this is the work of God, that ye believe on the one he has sent. John 5:24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent me, HATH, EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall not come into judgement, but it passed from death unto life. First Corinthians 1:21. For after that, by the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching, (First Corinthians 15:1-4) to save them that believe. Acts 16:31. The simplicity that is in Christ. Colossians 3:3.
Well, I don't know. Even if God isn't "causing everything to happen" we still don't get an answer. It is an intrinsic, Christian problem we don't get am answer to. There is simply no way (according to what lack of an answer we can find in scripture) that Satan could sin if it wasn't in him to be able and further will to, and there's no way Hh couldn't will to unless he was created with that desire in him. I'm not saying I'm answering your question, but consider this: why would God be at fault, why would it be wrong for God to potentially have inserted sin into Satan if it was for His own glory? Then, consider this, why do you want an answer? Why does Calvinism depend on this answer, and could it be just a Christian answer? Don't take me for one with answers, I just have a Bible, and a will to humbly accept it's truth no matter the cost, because understanding a hard truth means seeing the greater God, most likely, because, from what I can see, focusing only on what makes us feel good, and making that truth, risks losing aspects like the depravity of man and God's free grace. I hope I've helped you today, God bless.
I invite you to reason the fact that God will not create another God, whenever He creates something, that something is not God, that something is not as perfect as He is, from there we could move to the next fact, God is always working in His chosen creatures to bring them to the place He desires, the consummation of that work is infinitely more beautiful when His Image, the Only One that can represent Him, became the fruit of dirt to save dirt, not only that but a salvation executed through the torment, pain and suffering of a God that is the exact representation of the Only Immortal, He can’t be measured or reached by any creature, o even seen, The One who lives on unreachable light. God did not create sin, He only did not duplicate Himself.
I don't know, maybe Romans 9 will help. I do know we don't get to chose whether or not we are born. We are here, in this mess, the best answer to the mess I've found is Christ. I think God being the ultimate cause is different than causing everything to happen. It helps a little, I think, maybe it helps a lot, IDK.
This is SO destructive. Going through life having been told you're nothing, that you're broken is horrible. I know--I did it for 40 years. it wasn't easy but I got myself OUT of the cult of Christianity and my life's been the best ever since.
Could you expand on that thought? Sounds like an interesting experience you went through. (Not undermining your experience by calling it merely interesting just am at a loss for a better word).
So destructive. Are you saying You've wasted 40 years on a cult, felt you're good enough, then you are out? You haven't even seen even the tiniest glimpse of God's hatred and wrath and fury on your sins for 40 years to feel you are living the your best life now. Oh, how broken still you are and even leading others to destruction while you were never a Christian to begin with. Repent and turn back from your evil ways, you teacher of lawlessness!
What worries me is the cult you got into after apparently leaving Christianity, though your summary of it doesn't match up to what Christianity actually is.
Oh Jenna, that is such a fundamental misunderstanding of God. I know because I thought I too was escaping some sort of self-flagulation for YEARS by avoiding Christianity. But now I see there is nothing more hunger-satisfying and more joyful than God. Nothing. And once you realize that, you come to the understanding that without God, nothing else means anything. God doesn't want that for us; he wants us for him. And because we can't help but want anything else but God, faith in Jesus to turn us toward him is the only way to access that ultimate delight. As the hymn says, "And the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of his glory and grace." I hope one day you will come to understand this too, and find that God desires you, and wants you to desire him above all else.
Yes please tell us more. I don't think Piper is saying "you're nothing" I do think he is saying "you're broken". I think existing is difficult and painful, I'm sorry for the destruction you've experienced. God please comfort @jenna2431, please give them grace and peace. Cults use manipulation and control techniques, sadly some "Christian" branches DO use these, but Christianity is about a particular type of freedom, not tyranny or oppression.
Sin is not a thing; your moralizing entropy into a mystical force. And extrapolating that excess is a form of entropy in opposition to cold robotic functionality, meaning all recreation is deemed evil; but so called "sin" is required for functionality, pride is required for sanitation and preventing exploitation; otherwise your unkempt and easily taken advantage of. Greed is required for productivity, lust is required for reproduction. paradise is the trap of apathy that leads to the depravity you fear. With an easy life the mind has no challenges they have no character tempered and they fill up their time with new problems and distractions and you get the mouse utopia No philosophy supports excess. Not even classical hedonism, which was more about _(accept happiness because this world is filled with very few moments of it)._ Hard times build strong men, strong men build the American dream, the american dream builds liberals, liberal collapse society. The weak men die off. Hard times build strong men
I don't think, without unmerited effort, people know what you are saying. You may think you sound smart, and you may actually be saying something smart, but unless people understand you, nobody cares. Unless people know and care about you, people won't make the effort to try and understand you. I tried for a bit and then was like, I don't know this person, why use the time? One thing you can do to help us engage with you is to clean up the grammar. Secondly, you could be more clear in what you are saying. "moralizing entropy into a mystical force" is not clearly saying anything. YOUR comment moralizes entropy into a mystical force...see how I didn't say anything? Using entropy as an explanatory tool is vague, all actions increase entropy. I could say "the point of the universe is to increase entropy, because that's what it does". It's a poor explanation because everything increases entropy, so it's not particularly descriptive. It's like describing pizza by saying "its edible". That's right, but lots of things are edible. Third, trying to say what you want to say in as few words as possible would help. Fourth, not making unwarranted assumptions..for example, why do you talk about paradise? Piper is talking about defining sin. I think, (but your comment isn't clear to me, It's not that I'm an idiot, it's that it was a poor communication attempt - but it's okay, we are all growing), you are saying something about Christians wanting an "easy life" or are all about an "easy life"? IF that is what you are saying, then that assumption is false, Christians are all about picking up a cross (even in heaven they aren't about an easy life). You may be correct in concluding that Christians are about an easy life (or about whatever the assumption is), but its not immediately obvious that to be the case, supporting statements that are clearly contrary would be helpful. Fifth, better arguments. "Lust is required for reproduction" is not argued for... at all, I think this is false. Intercourse is required for reproduction sounds more accurate. Intercourse may come as a result of lust, but it also could come as a result of pure desire, which is not necessarily lust. It also may come as a result of chemically inducing a penis to be hard and a third party forcing a male and female to have intercourse, which may or may not be be lustful. Also the statement "intercourse is required for reproduction" is INCORRECT, because someone could extract semen from a male and put it into a female. This is just one example, but in glossing over your comment, I saw other examples of poor reasoning. If you want to engage with society in a productive way, putting our words in order is a useful way to do this. It is difficult, I get it, but if we don't make that sacrifice to put in the effort to communicate clearly and honestly, then the only thing left is power or frustration. Something isn't true because the strongest (or smartest or most convoluted or the person who gaslights the best) person says it, that's tyranny, and people tend to want to kill tyrants and not want to be around them. I think you are very smart, especially with how we're able to generalize some of Piper's comments to broader concepts, and so society needs to hear your voice, please help us hear your voice without appealing to tyranny, because we don't only want to hear you, we want to love you.
Sin according to the bible is trangression of the Law. If there is no law then there is no sin. And if no sin then you need no grace. If you love me keep my commandments. God requires obedience. We will be judged by the Law Read James 2:10. Every Government has laws and God has laws. Without laws then there will be chaos. The whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments
Paul is saying exactly that in Galatians. That NO ONE can be justified by law.... It is only the grace of GOD and ONLY the grace of GOD that provides salvation. Judaism's talk of grace is there --because GOD'S SYSTEM WAS ALWAYS BASED ON FAITH AS THE WAY GRACE IS OBTAINED BUT IN JESUS' DAY, the practicing Jews -- esp those in high positions had become lost and were relying on themselves for justification. Period.
One of the most powerful messages ever. So foundational
Lord Christ Jesus, bless you copiously Pastor John Piper!
I praise Our Heavenly Father, Our Messiah, and The Holy Paraclet for your life and bountiful ministry. Amen
Utter pious twaddle!
Thank you Lord God Almighty for this man whom you have put to feed your sheep. He is amazing.
This is indeed what the Bible says. Pastor John is the innoculating syringe in the hand of the Great Physician's Spirit. I thankfully praise the Lord for faithful teachers!
Thank you Lord Jesus! Thank you Dr John Piper and everyone at DGM!
Outstanding sermon!!! Very eye opening and heart waking up...o, how desperately we all need Jesus Christ as our shield 🛡️
Praise the Lord 🙌🏻🙌🏻
Pastor John Piper you nailed it! Would explain why when you just mention God some people recoil instantly without thinking!! I would see 'sinning' as a 'expression' of our state and a blossom of our inclination.
This is a blessing an eye opening. Thank you Jesus Christ.
This was amazing! I love that definition of faith.
At least in Britain we have beautiful old churches where the sense of wonder and deep history can elevate the proceedings, those responsible for music are genuinely gifted and the priest has the good taste and decency to talk for no longer that 10 minutes. People go because they genuinely find pleasure and derive meaning from their worship and the theological indoctrination takes back seat to the mystical experience. It’s thoroughly civilised and humane.
This was so helpful to understand sin.
To me it is loving things that can't love you back in other words the the things of this world the Bible so vehemently says we should reject. From what I have seen Satan is fashioning a new golden calf every second for us to put on the throne that should only belong to Jesus the only one who will love us back with an unimaginable grace beyond the full comprehension of man.
So good
The essence and root of all sin is the objection and intolerance of creatures toward the right and authority of God to sovereignly do whatever he pleases, in that he can and does decide to withhold from us satisfying pleasure in himself and yet also demands that we not seek supreme, satisfying pleasure in anything else. In other words, as creatures made in the image of God with an indomitable desire for pleasure at all times, we cannot live without the pursuit of pleasure so if we are not enjoying God our Creator supremely for satisfaction, which is something he must grant and we cannot take or demand from him, then we are bound to seek it elsewhere yet we cannot ever fully grasp it elsewhere so we are always dependent on God while also being subject to his righteous ordinance to not do what we are bound to do if he withholds himself, namely seek satisfaction elsewhere. This makes all of us consciously or unconsciously angry, indifferent, and untrusting of God in our core because we want full control of our pleasure at all times and we don't cope well with being subject to God's will which very often includes depriving us of satisfaction, and we also don't want to be restrained under law from seeking satisfaction in any other pleasure that may be available to us, both of which are reasons why Lucifer sought to dethrone God and take the means and object of his satisfaction into his own hands when he was not fully experiencing pleasure all the time. Lucifer sinned because he was not fully satisfied in God and thus wanted to be God in order to seize control of his own satisfaction and not have to deal with repercussions for any desires and pursuits he may have.
God condemned Lucifer for his sin (intolerance of God's sovereign prerogative and his plans to regulate pleasure by his own will rather than by the preference and wiring of creatures) and when banished, Lucifer became Satan and deceived Eve and Adam that they could take their satisfaction into their own hands knowing that they couldn't because he couldn't, and when Adam took the bait Satan became the spiritual master of all mankind, thus dominating our will and decisions with the rebellious attitude and preference that he has so that we cannot worship God because we like him are so angry and dissatisfied with God's nature and the way he runs the world and our lives, many times subjecting us to deprivation and pain in the name of his "good purposes," which we deny can be truly good because they don't align with ours.
God will not and cannot yield to our preferences and demands in his nature, character, and the manner in which he rules, but he can give us new hearts that bow to his nature, preferences, and demands, and he does this miraculously and independently in our new birth when the Holy Spirit gives us a grand foretaste of the satisfaction that we long for in Jesus Christ when we hear the Gospel, if we are the elect, then last we are enabled to and will repent and place our faith in him so that we can begin enjoying him as we were made to. Everyone's problem with God that gave rise to sin is that we don't like how God applies his sovereignty when it includes displeasure being experienced and punishment upon us for how we respond to his depriving us of pleasure, and the only remedy is for God to give us sufficient foretastes of the complete satisfaction we long for which we then respond to in faith and worship up until the time when our nature is fully changed and made sinless and God's glorious presence and blessings can be fully enjoyed.
Sin is so basic, yet complex. It's a desire for autonomy
@@calebmills1446 Yes. Sin is basically the deception and prideful persistence of trying to obtain satisfaction and righteous status apart from the Creator God who designed us to only be satisfied in him and who alone is righteous and is able to make us righteous in his sight. The way sin manifests itself is complex, pervasive, and ugly and our only hope of deliverance is the Lord Jesus, so I pray that we all are granted that saving grace in Christ alone! ❤
Wow! Cutting to the bone and marrow. Lifting to the highest certainty. Healing to the depths others cannot reach.
Great word indeed yet I find scriptures such as Luke 6:35. 2 John 1:18 Titus 1:16 Colossians 3:23 - 24. Did Adam and Eve toil the soil (work) for the glory of God before sin entered the world. Should we be
Generous, kind and love one another. As he has loved us. All these attributes are verbs all doing words all commendable in the eyes of God when done in Him with Him and for Him. Sin is not the King over the believer the Holy Spirit is. It is He who dwells within, where the light is the darkness shall not over come it. Have the light of the world live within, sin can not overcome Him. Let’s the cross be waisted. The victory belongs to Him and all who are chosen to be Sons of God. Sin was defeated at the cross. Take heart born again believers you are His, He is yours forever sin cannot and will not defeat you if you remain in Him.
The moral law are the 10 Commandments:
1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 🙏
1 John 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. 🙏
Mark 3:29 whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin. 🙏 😳
Would anyone know what work of Stephen Westerholm Pastor Piper is referring to I would be interested in reading it. :) Ah just found it in the transcript. It's "Justification Reconsidered".
I'll agree that all good deeds are 'as filthy rags', but we are created in God's image and I think even unregenerate people have a capacity to do good works due to the remnant of God's image that was stamped upon them. But I guess I'm not a 'total depravity' person. Like how would we ever come to desire God if our depravity were truly total?
My thoughts, not authoritative, just what I think. I think the short "answer" (assuming I am correct) to your question is Phil 2:12. The long "answer"...
The flesh desires one thing, the Spirit desires another (Gal 5:17). We are slaves of EITHER sin or the Spirit (Rom 6:16, John 8:34) with no other options (we can't be our own master). I think the fundamental desire (either hate or love for God) that actions are predicated on do not come from us per say, but from sin or the Spirit (Rom 7:20, Phil 2:12, 1 Cor 15:10). With God still finding fault or justification with US particular (Rom 9:18-21, but this is a whole other conversation).
Sin is a tyrannous slave driver (Rom 6:6) that gets its power from the command (1 Cor 15:56) AND something I can't quite put my finger on (more on that later). The command piece is something like, "I hate God and love NOT-God (core of our nature), Oh look, God said don't covet, I hate him, so now I will covet" (Rom 7:8). The caveat is God first "giving us up" (Rom 1:24). This is why the world isn't utter chaos, there are degrees of being "given up", God holds back our sin nature.
We first get the Spirit by believing Jesus is the Christ (Acts 10). The only way we can believe is if the Holy Spirit reveals this to us (Matt 16:17, John 6:44). But how do we accept (believe) this if we are totally depraved and just hate God? The Holy Spirit may reveal it, but we be like, well I hate you, I won't believe it, I'll repress it (just like what John Piper said in the message). Add Phil 2:12+John 6:29+John 1:13 and say God creates it in you (John 1:12, NIV says "right to become" the word become, is the same word that's repeated 3 times in John 1:3, "made"). God literally CREATES belief in you (I think...being loved also helps in this). You don't deserve this, so it's grace. You didn't ask for it, He exercised divine prerogative just to do according to his own choice, but this gets us again into Romans 9 (a different conversation).
Existence itself is a type of tyranny, but after that, the Spirit's desires get into us (remember it's not our desire, it's his) by it's indwelling (Phil 2:12, again). I don't think this is tyranny though, because the Spirit's desire is accepted through our love response (1 John 4:19, not tyranny, but as Jordan Peterson would describe it, "voluntary play"). With love as the motivator (John 14:15). I think we desire God THROUGH the Spirit's desire (or by accepting the Spirits desire). We take on that desire by receiving God's love and reflecting the love back to Him.
The forces in us are then:
Foundational sin (the exchange Piper mentions) has a desire to rebel and gains power through commands. Although not entirely distinct, it also gains force through the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, pain/difficulty, etc. For example, God may NOT have commanded you to not lie, but ease and comfort still generates a motivation/power to do so (I'm not clear on this). The first power of sin can be cut off because Paul argues that we are no longer under the law. The second power will remain, and it's usually associated with pain or suffering or difficulty, but we have a counter force that is greater for good.
The other force for good is Love for Christ. God relationally loves us, we receive that love, internalize it, meditate on it, etc, and that generates (creates maybe?) love for God. We then say, "God I love you, what do you want?", the Spirit is like, well I desire this, and we move from there...I think it boils down to a love relationship with God verses pain (I like what Jordan Peterson says here "Sacrifice is the core of the community" - sacrifice or pain is unavoidable when more than one object exists in the same place, lets try to make the proper sacrifice that leads to life as opposed to death).
I try to keep in mind that any desire for sin I have aren't MY desires, but sin's. It sort of helps me.
I'm so sorry for the long response. Please if you have time, please let me know what you think, I've been trying to think about how to obey.
How do I find next part of this please ??
Any chance a link could be added for the book he references?
White Margaret Clark Paul Lee Timothy
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Romans 6:23 For the penalty for sin is death, (First John 1:8, and we all sin, and we all die) BUT the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE, through the new birth. The gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4. Ephesians 1:13-14. In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, In whom also AFTER ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30. And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Our guarantee of eternal life. Romans 8:9. Without the Spirit, (the new birth) there is no salvation.
Some people say Paul preached a different gospel than Jesus. What did Jesus say? John 6:47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. What did Paul tell the Philippian Jailor? Acts 16:31. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and thy house.
Same message. The gospel has never changed. First Corinthians 15:1-4 That Christ died for our sins, that He was buried and rose again the third day for our justification.
Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the POWER of God unto salvation to EVERYONE that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Galatians 1:6-9. Though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. As we said before, so say I again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received from us, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.
Galatians 2:21. I do not void the grace of God, for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ died for nothing.
Romans 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him who JUSTIFIETH the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness. Just as David describeth the blessedness of the man to whom the Lord IMPUTETH righteousness APART FROM WORKS. Blessed is the man whose sins are covered, blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Romans 3:26-28. Where is boasting then? First John 2:2. Romans 5:19-21. Colossians 2:13. He has forgiven us ALL trespasses. Jesus paid the debt of sin we owe God and set us free. John 3:18.
How do we know we have eternal life? God said so. John 6:47. First John 5:13. These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. John 1:12. John 3:16-18. Jesus paid it all and we paid 0. Romans 11:6. Romans 1:16. Romans 5:19-21 Where sin abounds, grace much more abounds. You cannot boast in 0.
Matthew 7:21-23. Those that have done the will of His Father have eternal life. John 6:40. And this is the will of Him who sent me, that All that seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life, and I WILL RAISE HIM UP ON THE LAST DAY. John 6:29. Jesus, answered, and said unto them, this is the work of God, that ye believe on the one he has sent.
John 5:24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent me, HATH, EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall not come into judgement, but it passed from death unto life.
First Corinthians 1:21. For after that, by the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching, (First Corinthians 15:1-4) to save them that believe. Acts 16:31. The simplicity that is in Christ. Colossians 3:3.
Me: Indolence!
As a Calvinist, how can there be sin if GOD is causing EVERYTHING to happen?
Well, I don't know. Even if God isn't "causing everything to happen" we still don't get an answer. It is an intrinsic, Christian problem we don't get am answer to. There is simply no way (according to what lack of an answer we can find in scripture) that Satan could sin if it wasn't in him to be able and further will to, and there's no way Hh couldn't will to unless he was created with that desire in him. I'm not saying I'm answering your question, but consider this: why would God be at fault, why would it be wrong for God to potentially have inserted sin into Satan if it was for His own glory? Then, consider this, why do you want an answer? Why does Calvinism depend on this answer, and could it be just a Christian answer? Don't take me for one with answers, I just have a Bible, and a will to humbly accept it's truth no matter the cost, because understanding a hard truth means seeing the greater God, most likely, because, from what I can see, focusing only on what makes us feel good, and making that truth, risks losing aspects like the depravity of man and God's free grace. I hope I've helped you today, God bless.
I invite you to reason the fact that God will not create another God, whenever He creates something, that something is not God, that something is not as perfect as He is, from there we could move to the next fact, God is always working in His chosen creatures to bring them to the place He desires, the consummation of that work is infinitely more beautiful when His Image, the Only One that can represent Him, became the fruit of dirt to save dirt, not only that but a salvation executed through the torment, pain and suffering of a God that is the exact representation of the Only Immortal, He can’t be measured or reached by any creature, o even seen, The One who lives on unreachable light.
God did not create sin, He only did not duplicate Himself.
I don't know, maybe Romans 9 will help. I do know we don't get to chose whether or not we are born. We are here, in this mess, the best answer to the mess I've found is Christ. I think God being the ultimate cause is different than causing everything to happen. It helps a little, I think, maybe it helps a lot, IDK.
This is SO destructive. Going through life having been told you're nothing, that you're broken is horrible. I know--I did it for 40 years. it wasn't easy but I got myself OUT of the cult of Christianity and my life's been the best ever since.
Could you expand on that thought? Sounds like an interesting experience you went through. (Not undermining your experience by calling it merely interesting just am at a loss for a better word).
So destructive. Are you saying You've wasted 40 years on a cult, felt you're good enough, then you are out?
You haven't even seen even the tiniest glimpse of God's hatred and wrath and fury on your sins for 40 years to feel you are living the your best life now.
Oh, how broken still you are and even leading others to destruction while you were never a Christian to begin with.
Repent and turn back from your evil ways, you teacher of lawlessness!
What worries me is the cult you got into after apparently leaving Christianity, though your summary of it doesn't match up to what Christianity actually is.
Oh Jenna, that is such a fundamental misunderstanding of God. I know because I thought I too was escaping some sort of self-flagulation for YEARS by avoiding Christianity. But now I see there is nothing more hunger-satisfying and more joyful than God. Nothing. And once you realize that, you come to the understanding that without God, nothing else means anything. God doesn't want that for us; he wants us for him. And because we can't help but want anything else but God, faith in Jesus to turn us toward him is the only way to access that ultimate delight. As the hymn says, "And the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of his glory and grace."
I hope one day you will come to understand this too, and find that God desires you, and wants you to desire him above all else.
Yes please tell us more. I don't think Piper is saying "you're nothing" I do think he is saying "you're broken". I think existing is difficult and painful, I'm sorry for the destruction you've experienced. God please comfort @jenna2431, please give them grace and peace. Cults use manipulation and control techniques, sadly some "Christian" branches DO use these, but Christianity is about a particular type of freedom, not tyranny or oppression.
Sin is not a thing; your moralizing entropy into a mystical force. And extrapolating that excess is a form of entropy in opposition to cold robotic functionality,
meaning all recreation is deemed evil; but so called "sin" is required for functionality, pride is required for sanitation and preventing exploitation; otherwise your unkempt and easily taken advantage of.
Greed is required for productivity, lust is required for reproduction.
paradise is the trap of apathy that leads to the depravity you fear. With an easy life the mind has no challenges they have no character tempered and they fill up their time with new problems and distractions and you get the mouse utopia
No philosophy supports excess. Not even classical hedonism, which was more about _(accept happiness because this world is filled with very few moments of it)._
Hard times build strong men, strong men build the American dream, the american dream builds liberals, liberal collapse society. The weak men die off. Hard times build strong men
I don't think, without unmerited effort, people know what you are saying. You may think you sound smart, and you may actually be saying something smart, but unless people understand you, nobody cares. Unless people know and care about you, people won't make the effort to try and understand you. I tried for a bit and then was like, I don't know this person, why use the time?
One thing you can do to help us engage with you is to clean up the grammar.
Secondly, you could be more clear in what you are saying. "moralizing entropy into a mystical force" is not clearly saying anything. YOUR comment moralizes entropy into a mystical force...see how I didn't say anything? Using entropy as an explanatory tool is vague, all actions increase entropy. I could say "the point of the universe is to increase entropy, because that's what it does". It's a poor explanation because everything increases entropy, so it's not particularly descriptive. It's like describing pizza by saying "its edible". That's right, but lots of things are edible.
Third, trying to say what you want to say in as few words as possible would help.
Fourth, not making unwarranted assumptions..for example, why do you talk about paradise? Piper is talking about defining sin. I think, (but your comment isn't clear to me, It's not that I'm an idiot, it's that it was a poor communication attempt - but it's okay, we are all growing), you are saying something about Christians wanting an "easy life" or are all about an "easy life"? IF that is what you are saying, then that assumption is false, Christians are all about picking up a cross (even in heaven they aren't about an easy life). You may be correct in concluding that Christians are about an easy life (or about whatever the assumption is), but its not immediately obvious that to be the case, supporting statements that are clearly contrary would be helpful.
Fifth, better arguments. "Lust is required for reproduction" is not argued for... at all, I think this is false. Intercourse is required for reproduction sounds more accurate. Intercourse may come as a result of lust, but it also could come as a result of pure desire, which is not necessarily lust. It also may come as a result of chemically inducing a penis to be hard and a third party forcing a male and female to have intercourse, which may or may not be be lustful. Also the statement "intercourse is required for reproduction" is INCORRECT, because someone could extract semen from a male and put it into a female. This is just one example, but in glossing over your comment, I saw other examples of poor reasoning.
If you want to engage with society in a productive way, putting our words in order is a useful way to do this. It is difficult, I get it, but if we don't make that sacrifice to put in the effort to communicate clearly and honestly, then the only thing left is power or frustration. Something isn't true because the strongest (or smartest or most convoluted or the person who gaslights the best) person says it, that's tyranny, and people tend to want to kill tyrants and not want to be around them. I think you are very smart, especially with how we're able to generalize some of Piper's comments to broader concepts, and so society needs to hear your voice, please help us hear your voice without appealing to tyranny, because we don't only want to hear you, we want to love you.
Sin according to the bible is trangression of the Law. If there is no law then there is no sin. And if no sin then you need no grace. If you love me keep my commandments. God requires obedience. We will be judged by the Law
Read James 2:10. Every Government has laws and God has laws. Without laws then there will be chaos. The whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments
What is sin? Simple … 1john 3:4 transgression of Gods Law ( Torah) plain and simple, five minute sermon.
Paul is saying exactly that in Galatians. That NO ONE can be justified by law.... It is only the grace of GOD and ONLY the grace of GOD that provides salvation. Judaism's talk of grace is there --because GOD'S SYSTEM WAS ALWAYS BASED ON FAITH AS THE WAY GRACE IS OBTAINED BUT IN JESUS' DAY, the practicing Jews -- esp those in high positions had become lost and were relying on themselves for justification. Period.