You can find reviews and other Grisha-related videos here: th-cam.com/play/PL-WCMA9Lkyewkk4ox_ACjX7x3zLpgUaXh.html Other book roasts: th-cam.com/play/PL-WCMA9LkyexSCe7KAayZTwhWKmI2gWK2.html Purchase links to Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom: amzn.to/3dvcbij You can participate in future Book Roasts! I always ask on my IG stories: instagram.com/ebnovels/
To the person who didn't finish the first chapter: the first chapter is NOT the same as the rest of the book. It's meant to set up the story. I promise, the rest of the book isn't about Joost and his mustache. Though I will say: don't be hating on my man Joost. It isn't his fault that his mustache won't grow
I also struggled with kaz and the crew's ages at first, but then after learning about kaz's past... I actually understood and started to imagine him as young and quirky but sharp kind of guy. In my mind I understood what makes him so interesting and special, so his age didn't really matter anymore. Same thing with inej. Then, Wylan for example was young and actually FELT young. He acted pretty much how I imagine 16-year-old boy would act in a world and situation like that.
I think Leigh Bardugo nailed all of the relationships in Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom, platonic or otherwise. The romances were all well developed and realistic and the friendships were some of the most honest and realistic friendships I’ve ever read.
The ages being incompatible with their personalities, imo, is not a fault of the author but a problem with the industry. This book had to be marketed as YA for it to have the best chance it could have in sales and, for that, the ages of the characters needed to be bellow 20. It's a very silly reason not to like the book.
Yeah I hate it how the industry does that! There are adult novels with teen protagonists and there should be YA books with adult protagonists! The age of the characters shouldn't be what makes something YA or adult. I really don't like the industry and how they pressure authors.
But I think them being that young and acting like that kind of shows that they live in such a horrible place and had bad childhoods so they were kind of forced to grow up fast to survive.
Zaina Rahman I used to think that a lot too but now I realize that while teens being forced to grow up fast IS a thing, the level and skill the gang is at is just extremely unrealistic for their ages.
Here's the thing though... I absolutely LOVE Jesper because I have a soft spot for humorous characters. Is it just me? My opinion is that making Jesper the jokester was an awesome idea, because I feel that stories shine when they have a humorous, immature, character. And if you think about it logically, it makes total sense that Jesper is immature. Remember, he had to grow up really fast to survive in the Barrel, and I think that these kinds of characters crack jokes and act immature as a way of subconsciously holding onto their youth. Anyone else agree???
Apparently this is an unpopular opinion, but I think their ages were perfect. Everyone who complains about the ages of the characters being too young is probably like me; grew up in a first world country with enough money to get by. There are countless children and teenagers across the world who are forced to act and think like adults by the time they're fifteen. Inej was FOURTEEN when she was kidnapped and sold into prostitution. Kaz was TEN when his brother died and he was forced to cling to his dead corpse after being tossed in the sea with dozens of other corpses. Wylan was nearly murdered by his father. Matthias was taken advantage of and brainwashed by what are basically Nazis. Jesper formed an addiction to gambling. Nina was kidnapped, too, only as a sixteen year old. They were forced to kill and steal for survival. That doesn't make them not kids; that makes them kids who were forced to grow up too soon. Leigh Bardugo knows what she's doing. Trust her.
For me it isn't the attitude of the characters. It's what they were able to accomplish in such a short period of time that males them unrealistic. For instance Kaz is said to be one of the most feared people in Ketterdam. I guess it's hard for me to believe he was able to give himself that reputation so quickly. Maybe he's just got a lot of people to kill...
I don´t understand why people have to critize the charaters age as much as they do, just think about GOT charas who were teens as well and seemed much older. No one complained about that. Fact is, nowadays we´re living under such comfortable and in relatively safe cirumstances that we ourselves and our friends and family can´t ccompare to the characters in the books. Honestly, even 100 years ago people lived in harsh conditions and grew up fast, they sure were similar to our book characters. It´s not unrealstic or weird, quite the opposite, it is very likely and make sense if you really think about it. I had a serious illness when i was growing up and suffered a lot, not only physically but mentally as well and was a very aware and mature teen due to that. Maybe thats why it doesn´t seem so irritating to me, but I think people, especially teens should have an open mind about how trauma or hardship can affect peoples maturity. That´s why i like books and stories like this, it can teach us something valuable.
I really appreciate you saying this! I’m sorry you had to deal with so much, especially so young, but I completely understand what you mean about how it almost forced you to grow up faster. And yeah, I’ve not heard people complain about GoT characters either! 😆
The concept of childhood is a relatively recent development - they were often just seen and used as small humans. Life is very different when you're expected to fend for yourself and start a family between 12 and 16, or when you're supported by your parents until you're 20+.
I'm less concerned about how cynical and adult they act but how respected they are. I think they have too many accomplishments for their age. Nina and Mathais didn't even graduate from their military schools and they are some of the top people in their profession. With Kaz's reputation he'd have to have been pulling big jobs every other week. If they had been a few years older they'd be some of better or most talented people in their niches but at 18 or less they are all just super amazing prodigies.
Totally agree! I didn't even struggle with any real outside threats (well, if you don't count a shit dad) but yet, I had mental health issues basically since I was a preteen due to social rejection and my little brother being disabled. I was pretty mature in my perspective of the world and always related more to the adults in my life. Yes, I was still impulsive and could be immature - obviously. But I think if people were presented with a character like that they would cry unrealistic. (Though I don't see anyone complaining about HP, PJO/HoO and the many other Y/A novels that do this.
SPOILERS!!! I completely agree with you about your thoughts on Kaz and Inej. I didn’t feel that they pursued the relationship, rather they opened up more to one another and you can feel that pull between them to still be present in one another’s lives, but not necessarily as a romantic couple. I enjoyed their companionship and relationship a lot!
While I (temporarily) DNF’d this book, I totally agree about the age thing. Robb Stark was 15 years old when he was leading a war and declared “King of the North.” I’ve never read any complaints about that.
Robb Stark became "King in the North" because of who his family and his father was. His family was the most powerful in the North and his bannerman had to obey the head of the Stark family. Robb himself was an idiot who got himself killed.
Robb Stark was 15 but we could definitely feel his struggle growing up while trying to assume responsibility and Catelyn's point of view really nails it.
I don't know, Jesper was my favorite character in both books 😅 Inej was a very close second though. I just really liked how imperfect he was, that made him the most relatable imo. I liked reading about his struggles and his attempts to become a better person, yet on the other hand, I didn't like Matthias at all until halfway through Crooked Kingdom where I finally understood his value to the team 😂
I personally didn’t like the duo-logy at all. It wasn’t my cup of tea. But I never got the criticism of the age thing. From personal experience, my mom died when I was 12 so I had to grow up early. At 16 I was acting like a 20 year old. When you go through traumatic stuff at a young age you grow up fast. 🤷♀️
the whole issue i had with the characters being so young was the fact that kaz apparently got to where he is in like... a couple of years? which okay fine if he had experience in the criminal lifestyle and all but when he literally goes from a boy completely reliant on his brother to the head of a gang in such a short amount of time it feels very jarring. it all happens off screen, but if has a distinctly mary sue feel to it.
I think Kaz was probably always a smart kid, but when his brother died and he was forced to use his rotten corpse as a pool floatie, he was a smart kid who had lost ALL his inhibitions and who had nothing else to lose, plus, he was driven by revenge. I don't think it's that unrealistic; Kaz was just completely fueled by hate. Hate can do a lot to people.
For me: the SoC characters felt too old more so because of how much backstory they had and how much history they referenced rather than just that they “acted old” like other YA protagonists (ie. Vin)
Why do female audio book narrators for young adult books sound like they're out of breath and on the brink of crying throughout the entire story? Like they can't even say hello without sounding like they're about to break your heart!!
People who say the SoC characters don't act like teens: Explain why in Crooked Kingdom, they all get into a fight on who should have a bigger bounty on their heads.
I watched the Netflix show before reading the duology, and I'm SO glad I did. While reading, I heard and pictured the actors (who all did a great job) and that made me like the characters when I feel like otherwise I might've just been annoyed by them.
My problem with the age thing wasn't so much to do with them being mature and cynical, but more to do with them being incredibly respected and supposed to be the best criminals ever despite the fact that they were about 17 - if they were even in their 20s, or if they were low-ranking criminal gang members, they'd have been more believable. Also, I'd imagine a traumatised teenager would be more ... vulnerable? I know Kaz has PTSD but they just feel very snarky and polished and secure of their identities. I don't have much experience with traumatised young adults, though, so I could be very wrong.
I read Kaz and Inej's relationship the exact same way you did! They also made the book for me, I don't think I wouldn't have liked this story as much as I did without getting to see the dynamic between Kaz and Inej
When I read the book I was the same age as the characters and I can confirm that I’ve never seen anyone act the general way theses characters do, especially in the flashbacks
personally i felt like vin felt like a teenager. i’m 17 and i related to her in so many ways and i felt for her in ways i didn’t for the six of crows character. i think maybe the fact that the rest of the crew were adults and vin was a kid helped but i never thought she was any older than maybe 18 or 19. i always felt like she grew with her crew
The amount of exposition in these books killed it for me. It could have been amazing but every time we had a flashback I considered dnf'ing. All those pages should've been dedicated to the journey and the heist itself.
As someone that read this book when I was 13 and loved it, and continues to love it, I only agree with the age criticism. I always age them up, it's not that teenagers can't be mature it's that they are NOT written as teenagers. And I read adult fantasy and in comparison the plot of SoC as a fantasy story is not as good as some adult fantasy books but it's not about the plot😂 it's about the characters
I read the first seventy pages of six of crows and try as I may I just could not get into the book. I even purchased the audiobook to see if that would help me but to no avail. I guess you either love or hate this book. It was a miss for me
For me it was her similes that made the duology a drag to read. Eg: 'Inej watched the mallet rise and reach its apex, light glinting off its wide head, the flat face of a dead moon.' See the problem? Her writing's full of these. The initial image of the 'moon' is not strong enough on its own, and needs the qualifier of 'flat face of a dead' to make it situation-appropriate. The problem is those extra qualifiers add up and kill the pace of the prose. 'But Jesper’s life had split like a log into two distinct and uneven pieces: the time before he’d stepped up to that wheel and every day since.' Same problem. 'Split like a log' does not describe what happened to Jesper's life, and the qualifier this time is even more cumbersome. Read Crooked Kingdom. You'll see what I mean after just a few chapters.
I honestly forget half the time how old characters even are in books, lol. Vin was so young but was a total badass and I just forgot she was a child. So many characters in ASOIAF are realllly young, but the show aged them up (for obvious reasons) and I think people just picture the show characters now and forget their actual ages. Character age almost never bothers me, I don't read fantasy to "relate" to the main character(s).
I think it has to do with knowledge. Kaz and Inej know about everything almost most of the time. Vin is conscious and aware of her surroundings but she is mostly trial and error. She doesn't have a full knowledge base of the powers in the world. How they communicate, Kaz is the leader of some faction in the underground despite his age. It just doesn't match up. Where Vin has had much less situations where she becomes the talking piece to a heist plan that has never been done before. Thats more kelsiers role.
I loved how Muzzen ended up dying in Crooked Kingdom while he was still at Hellgate. Like the Dregs were back from the Ice Court for about a week and no one even mentioned Muzzen until he died and either Specht or Rotty delivered the news to Kaz. It's almost like Leigh Bardugo just started writing this story and then suddenly remembered there was this loose end and she was like 'oh shit can't go back now and rewrite the story, better kill him off'
Wylan should be the youngest at 18 and Matthias could be 27 and I wouldn’t bat an eye. Wylan 18 Inej 20 Jesper 24 (he reads like that guy who’s not ready to live the full adult™️ life) Kaz 21 (he could be 26 but I think Nina should be older i was getting big sister vibes. Kaz looks up to her) Nina 21 Matthias 27 Edit: I can’t believe I forgot to mention the monstrosity that is Kaz’s voice in Wylan’s POV of the audiobook.
honestly tho, the five year age difference wouldn't work for Nina and Matthias's past. They were both supposed to be in training, so if Matthias was 16 Nina would be NINE
Vin was always surrounded by adults. The fact that I could read Kell's or Sazed's thoughts in the chapters AFTER or alongside Vin's thoughts allowed me to remember she was a youth who needed guidance even though she was pretty hardened and mature already. The contrast allowed me to accept that she was as a teen and once the plot was rolling it wasnt even an issue anymore. Whereas with Kaz, he had that overblown confidence (which I considered super cool) of a completed albeit broken man but I couldnt get on board with him being 17. Wylan's age and behavior were believable.
I feel like the hype around it hurts SoC a bit. I was really late to this party. I listened to the duology for the first time around 4 months ago, and for most of the story, I was thinking about how overhyped it is. I have seen everyone talk about this famous series and how they more or less love it. I really couldn't see it. But by the end, I realized that I fell in love with these characters so gradually, that I did not even notice, until I was there. IMO, to love SoC, you have to give it time to sink in. By the end of book 2, I was fully converted. I dislike Jesper as well though, Maybe he is meant to be dislikeable. I'm very excited for the adaptations.
Inej and Wylan (and Kuwei) are the only characters I actually believe that they’re teenagers. maybe kaz had to grow up quickly due to his circumstances, but there wasn’t any element of teenager in his whole character
people say the charecters act older than there age, by alot of them were traumatized and kinda denied childhoods. Inej was kidnapped, kaz has really bad PTSD, nina was also kidnapped, and wylans dad did try to have him killed. thats why they act grown up. no one hates on harry potter acting likes hes 15 when hes 11.
I read this book so fast and loved it. But now that I’ve read more adult fiction and and distanced myself from Six of Crows and YA as a whole, i believe the whole heist aspect could have been better done. I loved the characters and Kaz is one of my favorite anti-heroes, but I was expecting Ocean Eleven with Fantasy which is kinda how it was marketed.
Yeah I feel in general adult books are better written than YA. Of course there are amazing YA and terrible adult books but I think in general authors tend to not take YA books as seriously as if they were writing an adult book and they just dumb it down so. much.
That's funny.. I DNF Ninth House after only a couple of chapters. Yet, I was able to get through the grishs trilogy , the crows duology, demon in the wood, language of thorns, and now I'm working on King of Scars. I think her writing has improved in some ways as she went along, it is just like any other skill. But, there are plot choices that seem to get worse as she goes along.
Out of the six characters I liked Nina and Matthias THE BEST because their inner conflicts were so well written as well as the tension of not wanting to like someone you were trained (ahem, brainwashed) to hate. I have to agree with the age thing though. I was struggling imagining them in their teens. But overall, even if I didn't like the overall plot, I really think Leigh Bardugo seamlessly stitched the events shaping the members of the team with the completion of the heist.
I haven't read Mistborn so I can't comment on that MC's age, but I do know that I also thought the aging for Six of Crows was off. Maybe not necessary for Inej, but 1000% for Kaz. He seems like such a wise person, like he has lived through it all and is just knowledgeable about life. But I mean, that's not really accurate for a 17-year-old... Even if you had a really rough childhood like Kaz had
My biggest problem with Kaz being 17 was the logistics of him becoming the leader of a gang in like 5 years especially if thoes 5 years were during his adolescence. My brain could not compute 14 year old rising in the ranks of a gang filled with grown adults.
Thank you, I think I had the same problem, I constantly forgot Kaz was 17 because he was leading (well lieutenant but he did all the work) a whole gang of grown men. I mean I doubt they would respect somebody that young. I mean this partially shows in CK during the end but I still found it hard to grasp. In my head the minimum Kaz could be is like 19. And the whole situation with Matthias. I mean they constantly look down on Fjerdan ways and I get it because how old was Matthias recruited to be a killer if he was lieutenant to Jarl Brum at 17? I feel like it would only be normal to be at school learning about "grisha's unnaturality" until 16 or something before you start to get recruited. But maybe that's just me. I think Matthias also could've been a little older.
I have been trying to read this book for a second time in the past weeks and god, I just hate the pacing of it. I have read just half of Six of Crows but it feels like the story is just now getting out of the first act which is crazy to think about. It really seems like this duology was meant to be just one book but instead they had to cut in two and did one even try to move thing around to keep your interesseted. Putting the book down a second time also made me realize I don't really care about any of these characters, usually I'm always thinking "ohh, maybe this will happen" or "It would be cool if" but this book didn't make me do none of that, I was just reading it like a corpse.
i enjoyed this book when i read it years ago, but my issue with the ages of the characters is not to do with those specific characters themselves: it’s about the adults around them. what adult crime boss, who has meticulously built an empire of organised crime, is going to do business with a 13 year old? we’re expected to believe that when kaz started his gang at 13, all of the other mobsters in ketterdam were just okay with that? even at 17 it doesn’t make any sense. what absolute madman would trust a bunch of 16 and 17 year olds to carry out a heist??
I haven't read Six of crows yet but wow people really got mixed feelings on this book. Now you say the plot takes a while for you to understand or get into. Hopefully the author doesn't make me wait too long before the story get to the juicy stuff ya know. It doesn't sound like a bad book overall tho 👍🏼. Nonetheless this video was a fun way to start the weekend. May it be a lovely one for you all and early happy Mother's Day to your Mom's 💖
Your interpretation of Jesper is kind of how I feel about Kaz. Kaz definitely thinks he owns everything lol. I’m biased though cause Jesper reminds me of my brother and I LOVE Wesper
Hi, Elliot. Could you create a discord server for your channel so that we can all chat with you and other people about books, and other stuff, like movies, TV shows, videogames, manga and anime? Daniel Greene and Merphy Napier have discords for their channels and its awesome to chat in those.
Spoiler Alert: . . . Matthias's death felt really unnecessary to me. It felt tacked on. It was like - the book can't end with every one alive, I need to kill someone, quick, type death. I was so pissed with the death that I wasn't even sad, and I am a crier. I really liked his pairing with Nina. I also liked Kaj and Inej. But felt wonky about Jesper and Wylan. Also, everybody has to be paired off within the main cast seemed unrealistic and unnecessary.
A character 'growing up quickly' because of the school of hard knocks means that they mentally mature and stop acting childish. My problem with the characters in this book isn't their mature attitudes, it is the level of skill competence and knowledge that theey shouldn't have had time to acquire in their short lives. (I also didn't like Vin in Mistborn but most of her life skills were more reasonable than the crows) In Seven years, Kaz learned how to fight, run a gang, all the games and cons, the layout of the city and all if its principle characters, the skill of lock picking and safe cracking, etc etc and he managed to teach Inej quite a bit of that in only 2 years. Wylan, who can't read managed to become a chemistry expert.... newsflash, you need to be able to read to do that or you are only as good as the teacher you had. If he could read, given his wealthy background, I wouldn't have any problem with his academic knowledge. However, since his inability to read is so important to his tragic story, his competence with academia is incredulous.
I enjoyed the grisha trilogy more than the six of crows duology simply bc of the setting and style. I was more interested in the worldbuilding and the grisha powers and power plays that the trilogy offered rather than the characters of the crows, hence i enjoyed what alina was up to more.
Personally I really liked and disliked the Dutch elements of this story. Being Dutch myself, I didn't really know whether to pronounce names of characters and places the way you would pronounce them in Dutch or if it was actually supposed to be pronounced the English way. Especially Matthias just confuses me. In Dutch we would pronounce the 'i' in Matthias like an 'e', which also makes way more sense in my head as I think Matthias (the English pronunciation) sounds kind of dumb. Names like Jesper, Van Eck, Hoede, Vellgeluk, Joost, Heleen van Houden, etc. were just annoying to me.
I think the young ages in Six of Crows is more noticeable than Vin’s age in Mistborn is because it’s basically every major character in Six of Crows acting much older than their age. Mistborn I believe it’s really just Vin who starts the series as a teen but acts much older. So it’s more believable that there is one character like that as opposed to all the characters. It’s been a few years since I’ve read both SoC and Mistborn so I may be misremembering
I enjoyed the book towards the end but almost the first 200 pages were a complete bore to me. I listened to the audiobook and read along and I actually enjoyed that experience and I think I would have dnf’ed the book if I wasn’t listening to it on audio! I think I perhaps just don’t like heist stories (in books)/ nothing about it blew my mind as I hope heist stories will!
About the relationships: All three of the romance arcs actually are believable to me;. Inej and Kaz are both tragic and damaged characters and they have spent a lot of time working closely. Kaz being attracted to Inej doesn't need any explanation and for a teenage girl with that kind of history, being attracted to the emotionally (and physically) unavailable guy is a very teenage girl thing to do. Mathias and Nina makes sense and develops well during the story. The only problem I have with Jesper and Wylan is it smells like "I need to shove an LGBT relationship in here and these two will do" However, it does develop on the page, they share the kind of bonding experiences that often make people draw closer, they flirt for a long while before they give in to it and there is even that funny 'Oops' moment where Jesper kisses the wrong 'twin'. So, they are all believable. However, Mathias and Nina are the only pairing I actually like. This is perhaps rooted in the fact that Mathias is the only character who really has a solid Arc. He goes through a genuine transformation of personality fromhis starting Misperceptions about the world to his Ah-Ha realizations and growth as a character. I can't count Kaz' transformation from gullable nub to gang leader because it is all past tense. He is the legendary dirth hands from page one. Inej is the legendary Wraith from page one. Wylan learns how evil his father is but that isn't a big surprise since he tried to have him killed in the past. Not a great arc. Nina's only arc is the dealing with the change in her powers. Jesper is basically the same guy at the end as he was in the beginning but he wants to do better... not much of an arc. So, like I said, Mathias is the only character with a solid character arc and he got fridged.
Why nobody says about completely illogical final battle? It's impossible that characters find this kind of weapon in this kind of place and successfully use it when touching it first time in their lives! It's not an "unexpected plot twist", it's "author desired to fit the world to the characters will" twist. Hate it!
Leigh Bardugo had experiences writing for movies which she spoke about in a TH-cam interview about how she got into writing, so it makes sense that six of crows was written for the screen.
Six Of Crows actually put me in a reading slump. I could tell it was a marvellous book and that I would love it eventually, but I DNFed it for a while. Then picked it up again and now it's one of my favourite books of all time!
If u expect me to believe that out of all the people in Rotterdam, the most competent people for the job were all 16.... Seriously though, out of everything, that has to be the most unrealistic thing ins this entire series. Wylan I get. Enej, fine. Cas... fine. Nina: No. Matias: I'm not buying it. Jasper: REALLY?
I really enjoyed both books, but it was really fun watching this video. Although I think I'm the only one who liked every character except Kaz and Inej XD. And I agree with you about Matthias, he was a jerk at first but then I started to like him more.
Vin is 16, mia from nevernight is also 16 I think, fitz is 14 to 17 in farseer trilogy, nona starts out as a 9 year old in red sister, also robb, jon, sansa, danerys are all teenagers, nobody has problem with their age so why would they point out the age problem in six of crows? Is it because its YA?
I see six of crows book with red sprayed edges and ones not, now I never buy collectors edition because I just buy them and read them then send them to charity’s or the library after I’m finished them because my room or house is not they bid to keep them all and do a haul or unhaul thing, but I won’t to know why I can never get my books with the fancy sprayed edges?
The main issues I had kind of tie into each other; age and prodigy. There didn’t seem to be enough time between these characters entering their ordeals and developing to the skill levels that they were in the book. This is mostly an issue for Kaz as most of the other characters pasts are developed so their skill levels make more sense (e.g. Inej with her acrobatics). However, I think the concept of Kaz being taken into a gang and building it up would be much more impactful if there were a larger window of time for him to struggle his way to a position of power rather than attributing it to a predisposition to crime.
Here I sit, watching this video, as my beautiful copy of Six of Crows sits on my shelves, unspoiled in its purity by human hand, unread, unloved, its purpose in life unfulfilled. I need to get around it, seriously.
SPOILERS I personally hated the Death of Mathias. It was kind of a Fridging but with a gender swap. It was like someone said to LB, hey how come none of these characters died? She then decided to take out the one she thought was the least loved. It was also another way of setting up Nina to be more tragic. But the Druskell boy tracking him down made absolutely no sense. That kid has no familiarity with Ketterdam, He shouldn't have had access to a firearm, since all the weapons were taken away during the auction, he didn't have any legitimate reason to be allowed to roam the streets during a plague alert, and a single bullet in the belly can take hours to kill you. LB was done with him, he did all of his jobs for the main plot and he got axed like a random murder. Totally stupid.
I liked it but I thought there were too many romances and I thought that the characters didn't act their age. Also Locke Lamora is definitely much better
My whole issue with the age thing is the character art was at the back of my book and they looked 20 so that's what I though they were and then it's like no they are 17 and I was a bit thrown off.
I just read six of crows last month and I loved it through and through. I don't had any issue with the age, I mean at first I was like 'What they are 17?' but after that the age factor took the very back seat and the ride was smooth. Like you said given the circumstances people grow up fast, very fast. I have yet to read crooked Kingdom so I left the video at spoiler lol. Also I didn't worry about the romance part, I like the friendship they have even if it is just to get something out but it's like they know each other better than before *kaz know everyone though lol*.
I think for whatever reason authors always want their characters to be teenagers and I don’t get why they can’t just make them adults... like is 20 something an unappealing age...? I think ppl can definitely be mature for their age but even in experience Kaz being the leader of the dreds in such a short period of time and Jesper going to college and dropping out doesn’t line up with being a teenager. As for Grisha trilogy I don’t think it’s written worse than “Six of Crows” I just found the characters sort of bland... the story was fun but besides Nikolai I didn’t enjoy the characters. I’m actually hoping with the Netflix show coming out, the actors are able to bring out more personality in those characters.
I complety agree with the audiobook thing, definitely also listened to few chapters of it on audio and was like "nope, i cant do this", as you said the angst pushing and making them annoying kind of, if that makes sense 🤷♀️
Totally agree on your Inej-Kaz opinion and the thing about the age. I do like Six of Crows slightly better than the Grisha trilogy, but still really liked the Grisha trilogy. I loved the themes portrayed in it.
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To the person who didn't finish the first chapter: the first chapter is NOT the same as the rest of the book. It's meant to set up the story. I promise, the rest of the book isn't about Joost and his mustache. Though I will say: don't be hating on my man Joost. It isn't his fault that his mustache won't grow
dumbway to start a book
Lol I happen to love joost. Wish he had more screen time
I totally regret not pulling through w the book when I first got it! After the first few chapters it picks up and holy crap it's amazing!
Joost!!!😭😭😭
I honestly found Joost a very sympathetic character, then he was immediately killed off.
Kaz & inej were not “together”. Like you said, they care about each other and are hopeful for a chance at a future together.
have you read the second book?
I also struggled with kaz and the crew's ages at first, but then after learning about kaz's past... I actually understood and started to imagine him as young and quirky but sharp kind of guy. In my mind I understood what makes him so interesting and special, so his age didn't really matter anymore. Same thing with inej. Then, Wylan for example was young and actually FELT young. He acted pretty much how I imagine 16-year-old boy would act in a world and situation like that.
I think Leigh Bardugo nailed all of the relationships in Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom, platonic or otherwise. The romances were all well developed and realistic and the friendships were some of the most honest and realistic friendships I’ve ever read.
YES. Leigh wrote it so well until there are no notcanon shippers
The friendship between Nina and inej felt so fucking forced- they just converse there was no chemistry shown
@@pixie-bo6wi i disagree but i respect your opinion
The ages being incompatible with their personalities, imo, is not a fault of the author but a problem with the industry. This book had to be marketed as YA for it to have the best chance it could have in sales and, for that, the ages of the characters needed to be bellow 20. It's a very silly reason not to like the book.
Yeah I hate it how the industry does that! There are adult novels with teen protagonists and there should be YA books with adult protagonists! The age of the characters shouldn't be what makes something YA or adult. I really don't like the industry and how they pressure authors.
@@WhitneyDahlin isnt it also fault with buyers that they are looking only for YA and not adult fantasy so the sales are nto that great unless its YA?
I haven't read the book but I keep seeing this everywhere. Why do people always say this about their age?
But I think them being that young and acting like that kind of shows that they live in such a horrible place and had bad childhoods so they were kind of forced to grow up fast to survive.
Zaina Rahman I used to think that a lot too but now I realize that while teens being forced to grow up fast IS a thing, the level and skill the gang is at is just extremely unrealistic for their ages.
Here's the thing though... I absolutely LOVE Jesper because I have a soft spot for humorous characters. Is it just me? My opinion is that making Jesper the jokester was an awesome idea, because I feel that stories shine when they have a humorous, immature, character. And if you think about it logically, it makes total sense that Jesper is immature. Remember, he had to grow up really fast to survive in the Barrel, and I think that these kinds of characters crack jokes and act immature as a way of subconsciously holding onto their youth.
Anyone else agree???
fangirlalltheway I agree lmao Jesper and Wylan are my favourite characters in the series, along with Nina.
Apparently this is an unpopular opinion, but I think their ages were perfect. Everyone who complains about the ages of the characters being too young is probably like me; grew up in a first world country with enough money to get by. There are countless children and teenagers across the world who are forced to act and think like adults by the time they're fifteen. Inej was FOURTEEN when she was kidnapped and sold into prostitution. Kaz was TEN when his brother died and he was forced to cling to his dead corpse after being tossed in the sea with dozens of other corpses. Wylan was nearly murdered by his father. Matthias was taken advantage of and brainwashed by what are basically Nazis. Jesper formed an addiction to gambling. Nina was kidnapped, too, only as a sixteen year old. They were forced to kill and steal for survival. That doesn't make them not kids; that makes them kids who were forced to grow up too soon. Leigh Bardugo knows what she's doing. Trust her.
For me it isn't the attitude of the characters. It's what they were able to accomplish in such a short period of time that males them unrealistic.
For instance Kaz is said to be one of the most feared people in Ketterdam. I guess it's hard for me to believe he was able to give himself that reputation so quickly. Maybe he's just got a lot of people to kill...
I don´t understand why people have to critize the charaters age as much as they do, just think about GOT charas who were teens as well and seemed much older. No one complained about that. Fact is, nowadays we´re living under such comfortable and in relatively safe cirumstances that we ourselves and our friends and family can´t ccompare to the characters in the books. Honestly, even 100 years ago people lived in harsh conditions and grew up fast, they sure were similar to our book characters. It´s not unrealstic or weird, quite the opposite, it is very likely and make sense if you really think about it.
I had a serious illness when i was growing up and suffered a lot, not only physically but mentally as well and was a very aware and mature teen due to that. Maybe thats why it doesn´t seem so irritating to me, but I think people, especially teens should have an open mind about how trauma or hardship can affect peoples maturity. That´s why i like books and stories like this, it can teach us something valuable.
I really appreciate you saying this! I’m sorry you had to deal with so much, especially so young, but I completely understand what you mean about how it almost forced you to grow up faster. And yeah, I’ve not heard people complain about GoT characters either! 😆
The concept of childhood is a relatively recent development - they were often just seen and used as small humans.
Life is very different when you're expected to fend for yourself and start a family between 12 and 16, or when you're supported by your parents until you're 20+.
Very true! Even now, I think this is different depending on where someone grows up.
I'm less concerned about how cynical and adult they act but how respected they are. I think they have too many accomplishments for their age. Nina and Mathais didn't even graduate from their military schools and they are some of the top people in their profession. With Kaz's reputation he'd have to have been pulling big jobs every other week. If they had been a few years older they'd be some of better or most talented people in their niches but at 18 or less they are all just super amazing prodigies.
Totally agree! I didn't even struggle with any real outside threats (well, if you don't count a shit dad) but yet, I had mental health issues basically since I was a preteen due to social rejection and my little brother being disabled. I was pretty mature in my perspective of the world and always related more to the adults in my life. Yes, I was still impulsive and could be immature - obviously. But I think if people were presented with a character like that they would cry unrealistic. (Though I don't see anyone complaining about HP, PJO/HoO and the many other Y/A novels that do this.
SPOILERS!!!
I completely agree with you about your thoughts on Kaz and Inej. I didn’t feel that they pursued the relationship, rather they opened up more to one another and you can feel that pull between them to still be present in one another’s lives, but not necessarily as a romantic couple. I enjoyed their companionship and relationship a lot!
While I (temporarily) DNF’d this book, I totally agree about the age thing. Robb Stark was 15 years old when he was leading a war and declared “King of the North.” I’ve never read any complaints about that.
Ashley Holder DNF?
Robb Stark became "King in the North" because of who his family and his father was. His family was the most powerful in the North and his bannerman had to obey the head of the Stark family. Robb himself was an idiot who got himself killed.
Robb Stark was 15 but we could definitely feel his struggle growing up while trying to assume responsibility and Catelyn's point of view really nails it.
Not to knock your point but yes a lot of discourse happens in the GoT fandom about the characters being too young
@@briangronberg6507Did Not Finish.
it's a more character driven story I think. Especially the first book, Bardugo takes her time to really build the personalities.
I don't know, Jesper was my favorite character in both books 😅 Inej was a very close second though. I just really liked how imperfect he was, that made him the most relatable imo. I liked reading about his struggles and his attempts to become a better person, yet on the other hand, I didn't like Matthias at all until halfway through Crooked Kingdom where I finally understood his value to the team 😂
I personally didn’t like the duo-logy at all. It wasn’t my cup of tea. But I never got the criticism of the age thing. From personal experience, my mom died when I was 12 so I had to grow up early. At 16 I was acting like a 20 year old. When you go through traumatic stuff at a young age you grow up fast. 🤷♀️
I’m sorry you had to go through that. I think that’s very true though-trauma can make us “age” quickly.
Six of Crows is action-packed. Crooked Kingdom is heart wrenching. :-)
the whole issue i had with the characters being so young was the fact that kaz apparently got to where he is in like... a couple of years? which okay fine if he had experience in the criminal lifestyle and all but when he literally goes from a boy completely reliant on his brother to the head of a gang in such a short amount of time it feels very jarring. it all happens off screen, but if has a distinctly mary sue feel to it.
His brother passed away when he was 12, so his progression was over the course of 5 years. Not that unrealistic.
@@carolynpavoni2176 I thought he was nine when jordie died
@@carolynpavoni2176 he was nine, so 8 years
He was 9 when Jordie died and he became gang leader at 15 (I think)
I think Kaz was probably always a smart kid, but when his brother died and he was forced to use his rotten corpse as a pool floatie, he was a smart kid who had lost ALL his inhibitions and who had nothing else to lose, plus, he was driven by revenge. I don't think it's that unrealistic; Kaz was just completely fueled by hate. Hate can do a lot to people.
For me: the SoC characters felt too old more so because of how much backstory they had and how much history they referenced rather than just that they “acted old” like other YA protagonists (ie. Vin)
I definitely think the main characters should’ve been in their early 20s. I couldn’t picture them as teenagers !
Honestly that's also my peeve for this otherwise good series
It's supposed to show that they were forced to grow up quickly. People in horrible situations even today are forced to become real mature, real fast.
Why do female audio book narrators for young adult books sound like they're out of breath and on the brink of crying throughout the entire story? Like they can't even say hello without sounding like they're about to break your heart!!
Haha, that’s often how I feel about their narrations too 🙈
@@ebnovels its like they've never been around an actual teenage girl in their lives!!
LOL, I didn't really like listening to Shatter Me by Tahereh Mafi until about halfway through.
Lol yeah shatter me is a recent one
People who say the SoC characters don't act like teens: Explain why in Crooked Kingdom, they all get into a fight on who should have a bigger bounty on their heads.
I watched the Netflix show before reading the duology, and I'm SO glad I did. While reading, I heard and pictured the actors (who all did a great job) and that made me like the characters when I feel like otherwise I might've just been annoyed by them.
My problem with the age thing wasn't so much to do with them being mature and cynical, but more to do with them being incredibly respected and supposed to be the best criminals ever despite the fact that they were about 17 - if they were even in their 20s, or if they were low-ranking criminal gang members, they'd have been more believable. Also, I'd imagine a traumatised teenager would be more ... vulnerable? I know Kaz has PTSD but they just feel very snarky and polished and secure of their identities. I don't have much experience with traumatised young adults, though, so I could be very wrong.
Yessss! I’ve been waiting for this!
I read Kaz and Inej's relationship the exact same way you did! They also made the book for me, I don't think I wouldn't have liked this story as much as I did without getting to see the dynamic between Kaz and Inej
When you said you don't like Jesper, i was like, NOOOOOOO WHYYYYYYY lol
right? jespers amazing
Jesper’s presents makes me smile
When I read the book I was the same age as the characters and I can confirm that I’ve never seen anyone act the general way theses characters do, especially in the flashbacks
You’re breaking my heart with this video 😭😂 it’s one of my favorite book ever. 😂 it’s alright you’re still my fave
Haha, I like Six of Crows!
personally i felt like vin felt like a teenager. i’m 17 and i related to her in so many ways and i felt for her in ways i didn’t for the six of crows character. i think maybe the fact that the rest of the crew were adults and vin was a kid helped but i never thought she was any older than maybe 18 or 19. i always felt like she grew with her crew
who's... vin...
Phonixfly🖤 main character of the mistborn trilogy!
The amount of exposition in these books killed it for me. It could have been amazing but every time we had a flashback I considered dnf'ing. All those pages should've been dedicated to the journey and the heist itself.
I don’t think the book was really about the journey and heist, so if you were wanting more of that, I can see why you didn’t like it!
As someone that read this book when I was 13 and loved it, and continues to love it, I only agree with the age criticism. I always age them up, it's not that teenagers can't be mature it's that they are NOT written as teenagers.
And I read adult fantasy and in comparison the plot of SoC as a fantasy story is not as good as some adult fantasy books but it's not about the plot😂 it's about the characters
I read the first seventy pages of six of crows and try as I may I just could not get into the book. I even purchased the audiobook to see if that would help me but to no avail. I guess you either love or hate this book. It was a miss for me
For me it was her similes that made the duology a drag to read. Eg:
'Inej watched the mallet rise and reach its apex, light glinting off its wide
head, the flat face of a dead moon.'
See the problem? Her writing's full of these. The initial image of the 'moon' is not strong enough on its own, and needs the qualifier of 'flat face of a dead' to make it situation-appropriate. The problem is those extra qualifiers add up and kill the pace of the prose.
'But Jesper’s
life had split like a log into two distinct and uneven pieces: the time before he’d stepped up to that wheel and every day since.'
Same problem. 'Split like a log' does not describe what happened to Jesper's life, and the qualifier this time is even more cumbersome.
Read Crooked Kingdom. You'll see what I mean after just a few chapters.
I honestly forget half the time how old characters even are in books, lol. Vin was so young but was a total badass and I just forgot she was a child. So many characters in ASOIAF are realllly young, but the show aged them up (for obvious reasons) and I think people just picture the show characters now and forget their actual ages. Character age almost never bothers me, I don't read fantasy to "relate" to the main character(s).
I think it has to do with knowledge. Kaz and Inej know about everything almost most of the time. Vin is conscious and aware of her surroundings but she is mostly trial and error. She doesn't have a full knowledge base of the powers in the world. How they communicate, Kaz is the leader of some faction in the underground despite his age. It just doesn't match up. Where Vin has had much less situations where she becomes the talking piece to a heist plan that has never been done before. Thats more kelsiers role.
I loved how Muzzen ended up dying in Crooked Kingdom while he was still at Hellgate. Like the Dregs were back from the Ice Court for about a week and no one even mentioned Muzzen until he died and either Specht or Rotty delivered the news to Kaz. It's almost like Leigh Bardugo just started writing this story and then suddenly remembered there was this loose end and she was like 'oh shit can't go back now and rewrite the story, better kill him off'
Wylan should be the youngest at 18 and Matthias could be 27 and I wouldn’t bat an eye.
Wylan 18
Inej 20
Jesper 24 (he reads like that guy who’s not ready to live the full adult™️ life)
Kaz 21 (he could be 26 but I think Nina should be older i was getting big sister vibes. Kaz looks up to her)
Nina 21
Matthias 27
Edit: I can’t believe I forgot to mention the monstrosity that is Kaz’s voice in Wylan’s POV of the audiobook.
honestly tho, the five year age difference wouldn't work for Nina and Matthias's past. They were both supposed to be in training, so if Matthias was 16 Nina would be NINE
Nahhhh Matthias as 27 is a no
I see it more like
matthias : 24
nina : 23
kaz : 21
jesper : 21
inej : 20
wylan : 18 or 19
@@suditii I can get behind that 🧐
Vin was always surrounded by adults. The fact that I could read Kell's or Sazed's thoughts in the chapters AFTER or alongside Vin's thoughts allowed me to remember she was a youth who needed guidance even though she was pretty hardened and mature already. The contrast allowed me to accept that she was as a teen and once the plot was rolling it wasnt even an issue anymore.
Whereas with Kaz, he had that overblown confidence (which I considered super cool) of a completed albeit broken man but I couldnt get on board with him being 17. Wylan's age and behavior were believable.
Bottomline: context is important
I feel like the hype around it hurts SoC a bit. I was really late to this party. I listened to the duology for the first time around 4 months ago, and for most of the story, I was thinking about how overhyped it is. I have seen everyone talk about this famous series and how they more or less love it. I really couldn't see it. But by the end, I realized that I fell in love with these characters so gradually, that I did not even notice, until I was there. IMO, to love SoC, you have to give it time to sink in. By the end of book 2, I was fully converted. I dislike Jesper as well though, Maybe he is meant to be dislikeable. I'm very excited for the adaptations.
Inej and Wylan (and Kuwei) are the only characters I actually believe that they’re teenagers. maybe kaz had to grow up quickly due to his circumstances, but there wasn’t any element of teenager in his whole character
i guess, but he still is seventeen. sometimes a persons mental age is older than their physical age.
people say the charecters act older than there age, by alot of them were traumatized and kinda denied childhoods. Inej was kidnapped, kaz has really bad PTSD, nina was also kidnapped, and wylans dad did try to have him killed. thats why they act grown up. no one hates on harry potter acting likes hes 15 when hes 11.
I read this book so fast and loved it. But now that I’ve read more adult fiction and and distanced myself from Six of Crows and YA as a whole, i believe the whole heist aspect could have been better done. I loved the characters and Kaz is one of my favorite anti-heroes, but I was expecting Ocean Eleven with Fantasy which is kinda how it was marketed.
Yeah I feel in general adult books are better written than YA. Of course there are amazing YA and terrible adult books but I think in general authors tend to not take YA books as seriously as if they were writing an adult book and they just dumb it down so. much.
Whitney Dahlin after reading Brandon Sanderson, I feel cheated from most of the young adult I have read.
That's funny.. I DNF Ninth House after only a couple of chapters. Yet, I was able to get through the grishs trilogy , the crows duology, demon in the wood, language of thorns, and now I'm working on King of Scars. I think her writing has improved in some ways as she went along, it is just like any other skill. But, there are plot choices that seem to get worse as she goes along.
Out of the six characters I liked Nina and Matthias THE BEST because their inner conflicts were so well written as well as the tension of not wanting to like someone you were trained (ahem, brainwashed) to hate.
I have to agree with the age thing though. I was struggling imagining them in their teens. But overall, even if I didn't like the overall plot, I really think Leigh Bardugo seamlessly stitched the events shaping the members of the team with the completion of the heist.
i hated Jesper at first but by crooked kingdom I developed a huge soft spot for him
I haven't read Mistborn so I can't comment on that MC's age, but I do know that I also thought the aging for Six of Crows was off. Maybe not necessary for Inej, but 1000% for Kaz. He seems like such a wise person, like he has lived through it all and is just knowledgeable about life. But I mean, that's not really accurate for a 17-year-old... Even if you had a really rough childhood like Kaz had
Agreed 100%
Agree
My biggest problem with Kaz being 17 was the logistics of him becoming the leader of a gang in like 5 years especially if thoes 5 years were during his adolescence. My brain could not compute 14 year old rising in the ranks of a gang filled with grown adults.
Thank you, I think I had the same problem, I constantly forgot Kaz was 17 because he was leading (well lieutenant but he did all the work) a whole gang of grown men. I mean I doubt they would respect somebody that young. I mean this partially shows in CK during the end but I still found it hard to grasp. In my head the minimum Kaz could be is like 19. And the whole situation with Matthias. I mean they constantly look down on Fjerdan ways and I get it because how old was Matthias recruited to be a killer if he was lieutenant to Jarl Brum at 17? I feel like it would only be normal to be at school learning about "grisha's unnaturality" until 16 or something before you start to get recruited. But maybe that's just me. I think Matthias also could've been a little older.
I have been trying to read this book for a second time in the past weeks and god, I just hate the pacing of it. I have read just half of Six of Crows but it feels like the story is just now getting out of the first act which is crazy to think about. It really seems like this duology was meant to be just one book but instead they had to cut in two and did one even try to move thing around to keep your interesseted. Putting the book down a second time also made me realize I don't really care about any of these characters, usually I'm always thinking "ohh, maybe this will happen" or "It would be cool if" but this book didn't make me do none of that, I was just reading it like a corpse.
I had the same feeling!
i enjoyed this book when i read it years ago, but my issue with the ages of the characters is not to do with those specific characters themselves: it’s about the adults around them. what adult crime boss, who has meticulously built an empire of organised crime, is going to do business with a 13 year old? we’re expected to believe that when kaz started his gang at 13, all of the other mobsters in ketterdam were just okay with that? even at 17 it doesn’t make any sense. what absolute madman would trust a bunch of 16 and 17 year olds to carry out a heist??
Exactly
YES the nina - inej scenes were properly done 👍
I haven't read Six of crows yet but wow people really got mixed feelings on this book. Now you say the plot takes a while for you to understand or get into. Hopefully the author doesn't make me wait too long before the story get to the juicy stuff ya know. It doesn't sound like a bad book overall tho 👍🏼. Nonetheless this video was a fun way to start the weekend. May it be a lovely one for you all and early happy Mother's Day to your Mom's 💖
Your interpretation of Jesper is kind of how I feel about Kaz. Kaz definitely thinks he owns everything lol. I’m biased though cause Jesper reminds me of my brother and I LOVE Wesper
Hi, Elliot. Could you create a discord server for your channel so that we can all chat with you and other people about books, and other stuff, like movies, TV shows, videogames, manga and anime? Daniel Greene and Merphy Napier have discords for their channels and its awesome to chat in those.
I'd be there!
Didn't people use to get married have kids and go to war at 16 and 17 just a little over a hundred years ago.
No, never! People have only ever done those sorts of things in their twenties :P
@@ebnovels I stand corrected 👍
Spoiler Alert:
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.
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Matthias's death felt really unnecessary to me. It felt tacked on. It was like - the book can't end with every one alive, I need to kill someone, quick, type death.
I was so pissed with the death that I wasn't even sad, and I am a crier. I really liked his pairing with Nina.
I also liked Kaj and Inej. But felt wonky about Jesper and Wylan. Also, everybody has to be paired off within the main cast seemed unrealistic and unnecessary.
Shame spoiler alert to those who haven't read it.
Please edit your comment with spoiler warnings for those who haven’t read it yet! That’s like the biggest spoiler in the entire duology 🙈
Tag this with spoilers!
Why would u spoil me like that put a spoiler alert
I love six of crows BUT it isn’t mistborn... Mistborn is on a totally different section of what a heist story is hehe
I interpreted Kaz and Inej the same way you did!
Haha, I’m glad I’m not alone!
Me too!
As someone who was supremely disappointed by SoC (even though I'm a massive YA reader) after all the rave about it, I am SO HERE FOR THIS😂😆😆
I bet Daniel Greene is one of the roasters XD
Definitely isn’t 😆
@@ebnovels he also doesn't like the book, surprise surprise XD
I liked it :)
You deserve so many more subscribers! ❤️❤️♥️
A character 'growing up quickly' because of the school of hard knocks means that they mentally mature and stop acting childish. My problem with the characters in this book isn't their mature attitudes, it is the level of skill competence and knowledge that theey shouldn't have had time to acquire in their short lives. (I also didn't like Vin in Mistborn but most of her life skills were more reasonable than the crows) In Seven years, Kaz learned how to fight, run a gang, all the games and cons, the layout of the city and all if its principle characters, the skill of lock picking and safe cracking, etc etc and he managed to teach Inej quite a bit of that in only 2 years. Wylan, who can't read managed to become a chemistry expert.... newsflash, you need to be able to read to do that or you are only as good as the teacher you had. If he could read, given his wealthy background, I wouldn't have any problem with his academic knowledge. However, since his inability to read is so important to his tragic story, his competence with academia is incredulous.
I’ve tried to read Leigh Bardugo. DNF’d three of her books. Also, about Vin’s age, she was twenty-one by the end, so it didn’t bother me as much
Alex Akard have you tried ninth house?
Morfeus I did, didn’t finish it
Omigosh!! I totally agree on what you said about Matthias! I liked his character arc and I wanted to see more of that in the ending :(
I enjoyed the grisha trilogy more than the six of crows duology simply bc of the setting and style. I was more interested in the worldbuilding and the grisha powers and power plays that the trilogy offered rather than the characters of the crows, hence i enjoyed what alina was up to more.
Personally I really liked and disliked the Dutch elements of this story. Being Dutch myself, I didn't really know whether to pronounce names of characters and places the way you would pronounce them in Dutch or if it was actually supposed to be pronounced the English way. Especially Matthias just confuses me. In Dutch we would pronounce the 'i' in Matthias like an 'e', which also makes way more sense in my head as I think Matthias (the English pronunciation) sounds kind of dumb. Names like Jesper, Van Eck, Hoede, Vellgeluk, Joost, Heleen van Houden, etc. were just annoying to me.
I think the young ages in Six of Crows is more noticeable than Vin’s age in Mistborn is because it’s basically every major character in Six of Crows acting much older than their age. Mistborn I believe it’s really just Vin who starts the series as a teen but acts much older. So it’s more believable that there is one character like that as opposed to all the characters. It’s been a few years since I’ve read both SoC and Mistborn so I may be misremembering
I enjoyed the book towards the end but almost the first 200 pages were a complete bore to me. I listened to the audiobook and read along and I actually enjoyed that experience and I think I would have dnf’ed the book if I wasn’t listening to it on audio! I think I perhaps just don’t like heist stories (in books)/ nothing about it blew my mind as I hope heist stories will!
They didn’t get together yet in the end, it didn’t feel like they did, it was implied they will one day
About the relationships: All three of the romance arcs actually are believable to me;. Inej and Kaz are both tragic and damaged characters and they have spent a lot of time working closely. Kaz being attracted to Inej doesn't need any explanation and for a teenage girl with that kind of history, being attracted to the emotionally (and physically) unavailable guy is a very teenage girl thing to do. Mathias and Nina makes sense and develops well during the story. The only problem I have with Jesper and Wylan is it smells like "I need to shove an LGBT relationship in here and these two will do" However, it does develop on the page, they share the kind of bonding experiences that often make people draw closer, they flirt for a long while before they give in to it and there is even that funny 'Oops' moment where Jesper kisses the wrong 'twin'. So, they are all believable. However, Mathias and Nina are the only pairing I actually like. This is perhaps rooted in the fact that Mathias is the only character who really has a solid Arc. He goes through a genuine transformation of personality fromhis starting Misperceptions about the world to his Ah-Ha realizations and growth as a character. I can't count Kaz' transformation from gullable nub to gang leader because it is all past tense. He is the legendary dirth hands from page one. Inej is the legendary Wraith from page one. Wylan learns how evil his father is but that isn't a big surprise since he tried to have him killed in the past. Not a great arc. Nina's only arc is the dealing with the change in her powers. Jesper is basically the same guy at the end as he was in the beginning but he wants to do better... not much of an arc. So, like I said, Mathias is the only character with a solid character arc and he got fridged.
Why nobody says about completely illogical final battle? It's impossible that characters find this kind of weapon in this kind of place and successfully use it when touching it first time in their lives! It's not an "unexpected plot twist", it's "author desired to fit the world to the characters will" twist. Hate it!
Leigh Bardugo had experiences writing for movies which she spoke about in a TH-cam interview about how she got into writing, so it makes sense that six of crows was written for the screen.
Six Of Crows actually put me in a reading slump. I could tell it was a marvellous book and that I would love it eventually, but I DNFed it for a while. Then picked it up again and now it's one of my favourite books of all time!
I really thought it was more fitting for a movie
Jasper wasn't exactly my favorite character in the show, so I've been hesitant to read the books.
If u expect me to believe that out of all the people in Rotterdam, the most competent people for the job were all 16....
Seriously though, out of everything, that has to be the most unrealistic thing ins this entire series.
Wylan I get. Enej, fine. Cas... fine. Nina: No. Matias: I'm not buying it. Jasper: REALLY?
Just read and finished the duology for the first time some days ago and gosh I love it so much **
If Netflix adaptations can cast 28 year olds as high school students then why do people whine so much about this happening in YA BOOKS.
I really enjoyed both books, but it was really fun watching this video. Although I think I'm the only one who liked every character except Kaz and Inej XD. And I agree with you about Matthias, he was a jerk at first but then I started to like him more.
Vin is 16, mia from nevernight is also 16 I think, fitz is 14 to 17 in farseer trilogy, nona starts out as a 9 year old in red sister, also robb, jon, sansa, danerys are all teenagers, nobody has problem with their age so why would they point out the age problem in six of crows? Is it because its YA?
I see six of crows book with red sprayed edges and ones not, now I never buy collectors edition because I just buy them and read them then send them to charity’s or the library after I’m finished them because my room or house is not they bid to keep them all and do a haul or unhaul thing, but I won’t to know why I can never get my books with the fancy sprayed edges?
I love SoC so much but I'm still gonna watch a roast, it's too entraining lmao
Haha, hopefully the comments don’t hurt too much!
Honestly you hurt me the most when you said you don't like Jesper 😂
The main issues I had kind of tie into each other; age and prodigy. There didn’t seem to be enough time between these characters entering their ordeals and developing to the skill levels that they were in the book. This is mostly an issue for Kaz as most of the other characters pasts are developed so their skill levels make more sense (e.g. Inej with her acrobatics). However, I think the concept of Kaz being taken into a gang and building it up would be much more impactful if there were a larger window of time for him to struggle his way to a position of power rather than attributing it to a predisposition to crime.
Kaz had an "I'm Batman" type if voice in the audio book.
if you want a great heist book, read the last magician :)
I love Six of Crows but Crooked Kingdom was such a disappointment.
Here I sit, watching this video, as my beautiful copy of Six of Crows sits on my shelves, unspoiled in its purity by human hand, unread, unloved, its purpose in life unfulfilled.
I need to get around it, seriously.
SPOILERS
I personally hated the Death of Mathias. It was kind of a Fridging but with a gender swap. It was like someone said to LB, hey how come none of these characters died? She then decided to take out the one she thought was the least loved. It was also another way of setting up Nina to be more tragic. But the Druskell boy tracking him down made absolutely no sense. That kid has no familiarity with Ketterdam, He shouldn't have had access to a firearm, since all the weapons were taken away during the auction, he didn't have any legitimate reason to be allowed to roam the streets during a plague alert, and a single bullet in the belly can take hours to kill you. LB was done with him, he did all of his jobs for the main plot and he got axed like a random murder. Totally stupid.
I got the same vibe from the ending for kaz and inej!
So apparently I say Matthias’s name way wrong.
Ooooooo I want to watch this video but I don't think I'm ready lmao, this is one of my favorite recent books
Woah. This duo is great. Can't believe you saw fit to roast.
I liked it but I thought there were too many romances and I thought that the characters didn't act their age. Also Locke Lamora is definitely much better
Haha, I so disagree about that last part, but different strokes for different folks!!
My whole issue with the age thing is the character art was at the back of my book and they looked 20 so that's what I though they were and then it's like no they are 17 and I was a bit thrown off.
The first chapter is awful!! I usually skip it.
I just read six of crows last month and I loved it through and through. I don't had any issue with the age, I mean at first I was like 'What they are 17?' but after that the age factor took the very back seat and the ride was smooth. Like you said given the circumstances people grow up fast, very fast. I have yet to read crooked Kingdom so I left the video at spoiler lol. Also I didn't worry about the romance part, I like the friendship they have even if it is just to get something out but it's like they know each other better than before *kaz know everyone though lol*.
I think inej and kaz should have been 19 but that's just my opinion
19 at least, I see them more in their early 20s or so
@@Okapeep yeah, in my head they were 25 hahaha. But if since the book is YA at least them being 19 year olds would still kinda fit YA
SAAAAME on liking the original trilogy more... ! Honestly SoC just... was fine to me?
I think for whatever reason authors always want their characters to be teenagers and I don’t get why they can’t just make them adults... like is 20 something an unappealing age...? I think ppl can definitely be mature for their age but even in experience Kaz being the leader of the dreds in such a short period of time and Jesper going to college and dropping out doesn’t line up with being a teenager.
As for Grisha trilogy I don’t think it’s written worse than “Six of Crows” I just found the characters sort of bland... the story was fun but besides Nikolai I didn’t enjoy the characters. I’m actually hoping with the Netflix show coming out, the actors are able to bring out more personality in those characters.
I complety agree with the audiobook thing, definitely also listened to few chapters of it on audio and was like "nope, i cant do this", as you said the angst pushing and making them annoying kind of, if that makes sense 🤷♀️
I wish you had warned that the spoilers were for Crooked Kingdom too because I was so not ready to hear that thing about that one character... 🤦🏾♀️
Totally agree on your Inej-Kaz opinion and the thing about the age. I do like Six of Crows slightly better than the Grisha trilogy, but still really liked the Grisha trilogy. I loved the themes portrayed in it.