Rules of life: 1. Avoid looking at people's faces in metro because they're upset in life or pretending to be something that they're not and this will make your head messy and loose your focus. Exception to this rule is you can see happy faces.
Thanks for sharing this life altering conversation of Werner - got back literally into the est program I did in Bombay in 1983 (and have been engaged in the conversations ever since ) Am participating in the Introduction Leaders Program and this audio adds to the study material brilliantly. Thanks again
one only has to look at the history this society and the justification for all its unethical tactics to see why its so triggering...especially for those in power.
Never did the course, but read the book of est out loud with my wife driving to Vegas and back. The part where they bring audience members up with pains and show them a technic to be come consciously aware of IT, it will disappear. When I was 25 had belpasly it really got me over that and many pains or physical aliments since. Our Government, politicians, and rich & famous are an accult?
I can see that a promise makes our thought congruent with reality whereas chattering is just whining about the way reality is. What I struggle with is I tend not to make promises because I'm afraid I won't "be able" to fulfill them. And the not fulfilling them really does "show up" for me as "not being able." For instance, I have a health issue and it often makes me late to work in the morning. Once, when I tried to "override" my own fatigue, I had a car accident. This was the consequence, it seems, of me trying to fulfill my promise. (This promise is implicit in the whole work contract, unless it is explicitly waived by all parties.) I still struggle with this and I now play games with my notifications to my boss because of this situation. How do we deal with promises we recognize as legitimate and yet cannot seem to keep for reasons that seem beyond our control?
that whole process you describe feels like a crazy circus. I am not calling you crazy but I am intending you to understand to look from the position that you are the ringmaster. "What is wanted and needed" is what Werner might ask of you at this moment. let go your attention on those things. Start with a) you have a health thing to manage. 2) you have a job to manage. 3) these 2 things have to be shuffled together. ok got it. Now all of that aside, what do you need in order to make all of that work and for you to be happy, healthy, and no making yourself fit into a round hole when u are a square peg? what do you need? stay out of your head and spend time in your heart. You got this. Say no to circus talk and once you start recognizing you are doing it then just simply stop. if it is with someone dont defend it just apologize and go back on track :) you are the ring master of your closet of abilities. stay well. namaste brae
You tell the truth about what you can be counted on to do. If you know you can't reliably get to work at the agreed upon time, than you need to tell your employer, you can't make that agreement. Then you and they get to decide if there is workability there or not. I have turned down jobs that want me to be at work prior to 8 am, because I know I can't reliably show up at that time, and if I do make it on time, I will not be effective on the job.
I once had a job at a university when my daughter was three. Even tho I did everything I could, I was 5-10 mins late to work about twice a week. My boss would be standing at the door to see when I got there. Finally one day I said to him that I was going to be late when I absolutely needed to be late and if he would stay in his office he probably wouldn’t even know I was late. And I said that I always made up the time either from my lunch break or stayed longer after work. And I said if this cannot work out for you and the university then unfortunately you need to fire me. I never got fired. and my boss started staying in his office in the mornings and as my daughter got older, I was late less and less. BLESSINGS TO YOU🙏🏼♥️🌏🌺CA
@@shannahighsmith1179 Well said. Eventually, I lost that job because my new boss only cared about the clock and not the product. Ah, that's me whining. I wonder what would have happened if I had just said to her: look, I'll do 40 plus hours a week for you (thus meeting contract) and deadlines will be met and projects will be completed and problems in my department will be handled efficiently and professionally, but my arrival can vary from 15-30 minutes (either way, sometimes earlier sometimes later). If you need to fire me over that, that's up to you but I'm just letting you know what I can and cannot do. The outcome may have been the same but a. I would have felt a lot better about myself and b. she might actually have been brought up short by my honesty and reconsidered her position.
@@RRP714 Actually, it's a direct quotation, not my interpretation, and the emphasis in clear in Werner's voice. I don't know what you mean by "it" doing the assessment. Werner is clear that what the you is is this act of doing assessment. Where there's no assessment, there's no you; and where's there's no you, there's no assessment. Of course, once you're you you are "always already" doing assessment, so it doesn't help to try to "stop doing assessment" because that's just more YOU trying to stop being you. I take it that he is suggesting we switch to "philosophical" assessment--integrity, authenticity, commitment--as a more meaningful mode of assessment for trying to actually get us out of the YOU entirely and back into that state of peak performance in which the YOU naturally isn't there.
If I remember him, It's lots of philosophy..his philosophy. No..at my best moments I am present. I think he has it backwards..in my best moments, I show up. Is Werner the guy in the diner? sure sounds so.
What he means is you will forget everything about you and you are completely open to others experiencing with you..example having a great conversation on something which you don't have any position. You will enjoy your talk and you will enjoy even if other person contradict you..
first you become aware of the self we are thrown to be. Thus, an opening occurs where nothing is present . From this nothing BEING then speaking as a creative act ongoingly
Hey Andrew. I’m just going to paraphrase WE here: when you are working intently at something, are you aware of yourself? When you are happy-joyously hanging out with friends or doing something you love to do-are you aware of yourself? Or are you aware of the activity, the friends, the good feelings? Now, think about a time when you were embarrassed or came up short-didn’t you then become aware of “yourself”-as a kind of problem that you had to solve? The self always shows up as a psychological assessment-as a problem. Awareness is the opposite of self.
False Dilemma Fallacy. Sometimes called the “either-or” fallacy, a false dilemma is a logical fallacy that presents only two options or sides when there are many options or sides. Essentially, a false dilemma presents a “black and white” kind of thinking when there are actually many shades of gray. [Erhard stole a lot from Scientology and Landmark paints you into a corner - believe what we tell you or you're wrong - oh, and here's a new course that only costs...]
I didn't actually hear any dilemma expressed in Erhard's comments here. Referring to philosophical assessment, he said it's "an alternative" to psychological assessment. Identifying an alternative to something does not imply there are only two options or possibilities. Check out his comments around 18:50. There are many forms of assessment, so it seems your false dilemma fallacy doesn't really apply. Also, as I recall the est and Forum training specifically said you should not believe what they are telling you (belief being the least certain form of knowing anything, experience being the most certain). So I'm skeptical they told you to believe them or else you are wrong. Just an observation - there's room for diversity of opinion.
@@rwinga01 completely agree with this comment. The central idea of these conversations are about trying on a new view point, “not like the truth”, but as another way to interact with being in the world. On the other hand, If you want certainty like in the black or white analogy above or dogma (i.e., Scientology) this wouldn’t be your taste because it doesn’t define any truths.
Werner’s work is pretty much the opposite of Scientology-no levels of attainment, no alien mythology, no drug addicted, secluded, dying guru holding on desperately to power and cultish adulation. Werner walked away from est in the 80s without repudiating his own teachings or the organization. There’s nothing to believe in est-there’s only something to get. And that getting is an operational way of being in the world, not a set of beliefs to promulgate in endless books and courses. Werner isn’t perfect-and doesn’t claim to be-but the last thing he ever wanted was followers.
Lost two of my best friends to this "solution." One now works full-time for the Landmark cult/business. Destroyed many, many friendships. Smelled the BS and I walked out after twenty minutes...
This is not a cult. It’s a philosophy. A way of looking at things. And it works well for lots of people. If all you got was 20 minutes, you have no idea what you missed. Let it go. Be joyous.
@@pdneff8171 Agree completely. My family and friends think they "lost me" to Scientology... but I'm clear and they are not. Soon I will be able to communicate telepathically with animals. Who's going to be laughing then?
@@jah8875 There is enough evidence out in the world to show that Scientology has nothing to do with Landmark a program. But you should check this with the animals.
This audio has shifted my whole understanding of this work.
I love Werner's voice 🏆
This is so great. Thank you for sahring this. Did the Forum back in August of 1988 and I'm in the Landmark Academy, in the seminar leader program now.
Hearing this resets me close to my state after the forum. Thanks for sharing.
Hey man brings me right back. this is some primitive way of telling the same story so as I hear it, it resonates with the forum. Pretty cool !!!!
It takes it to a level I didn't get in the forum.
@@shannahighsmith1179 Right on!
"You got born into psychological assessment."
Rules of life:
1. Avoid looking at people's faces in metro because they're upset in life or pretending to be something that they're not and this will make your head messy and loose your focus. Exception to this rule is you can see happy faces.
Thanks for sharing this life altering conversation of Werner - got back literally into the est program I did in Bombay in 1983 (and have been engaged in the conversations ever since )
Am participating in the Introduction Leaders Program and this audio adds to the study material brilliantly.
Thanks again
Great to see other Introduction Leader Program members around here. Are you an Introduction Leader by now?
I9999
Jk jokimmedj
It's a fact, people bullshit themselves and everyone else.
OMG: integrity can upset so many people!
one only has to look at the history this society and the justification for all its unethical tactics to see why its so triggering...especially for those in power.
He may not have all the right answers. But he has all the right questions.
Power is in the question……. Love it….
@@curtsmith7486 POPPY !!!
Never did the course, but read the book of est out loud with my wife driving to Vegas and back. The part where they bring audience members up with pains and show them a technic to be come consciously aware of IT, it will disappear. When I was 25 had belpasly it really got me over that and many pains or physical aliments since. Our Government, politicians, and rich & famous are an accult?
re
"What's wrong is a question inviting a psychological assessment..."
Thank you very very much Dear, for making this available
Mind Control. Get it ! Got it! Shift.
Thanks for posting this, I had not heard it yet.
Thank you for sharing!
Nice illuminati pic lol.. but thank you for sharing. He was awesome
A good man who walks and lives his talk...Top it off, a man of wisdom...
I can see that a promise makes our thought congruent with reality whereas chattering is just whining about the way reality is. What I struggle with is I tend not to make promises because I'm afraid I won't "be able" to fulfill them. And the not fulfilling them really does "show up" for me as "not being able." For instance, I have a health issue and it often makes me late to work in the morning. Once, when I tried to "override" my own fatigue, I had a car accident. This was the consequence, it seems, of me trying to fulfill my promise. (This promise is implicit in the whole work contract, unless it is explicitly waived by all parties.) I still struggle with this and I now play games with my notifications to my boss because of this situation. How do we deal with promises we recognize as legitimate and yet cannot seem to keep for reasons that seem beyond our control?
that whole process you describe feels like a crazy circus. I am not calling you crazy but I am intending you to understand to look from the position that you are the ringmaster. "What is wanted and needed" is what Werner might ask of you at this moment. let go your attention on those things. Start with a) you have a health thing to manage. 2) you have a job to manage. 3) these 2 things have to be shuffled together. ok got it. Now all of that aside, what do you need in order to make all of that work and for you to be happy, healthy, and no making yourself fit into a round hole when u are a square peg? what do you need? stay out of your head and spend time in your heart. You got this. Say no to circus talk and once you start recognizing you are doing it then just simply stop. if it is with someone dont defend it just apologize and go back on track :) you are the ring master of your closet of abilities. stay well. namaste brae
You tell the truth about what you can be counted on to do. If you know you can't reliably get to work at the agreed upon time, than you need to tell your employer, you can't make that agreement. Then you and they get to decide if there is workability there or not.
I have turned down jobs that want me to be at work prior to 8 am, because I know I can't reliably show up at that time, and if I do make it on time, I will not be effective on the job.
I once had a job at a university when my daughter was three. Even tho I did everything I could, I was 5-10 mins late to work about twice a week. My boss would be standing at the door to see when I got there. Finally one day I said to him that I was going to be late when I absolutely needed to be late and if he would stay in his office he probably wouldn’t even know I was late. And I said that I always made up the time either from my lunch break or stayed longer after work. And I said if this cannot work out for you and the university then unfortunately you need to fire me. I never got fired. and my boss started staying in his office in the mornings and as my daughter got older, I was late less and less. BLESSINGS TO YOU🙏🏼♥️🌏🌺CA
@@shannahighsmith1179 Well said. Eventually, I lost that job because my new boss only cared about the clock and not the product. Ah, that's me whining. I wonder what would have happened if I had just said to her: look, I'll do 40 plus hours a week for you (thus meeting contract) and deadlines will be met and projects will be completed and problems in my department will be handled efficiently and professionally, but my arrival can vary from 15-30 minutes (either way, sometimes earlier sometimes later). If you need to fire me over that, that's up to you but I'm just letting you know what I can and cannot do. The outcome may have been the same but a. I would have felt a lot better about myself and b. she might actually have been brought up short by my honesty and reconsidered her position.
David, when did you complete your forum?
13:00 philosophical assessment
19:21 Psychological assessment
Werner ! .. Haven't heard this voice in many a year. But why this picture.. seems pretty unflattering.
"If you are DOING assessment, let's see you stop doing assessment."
No, it's: if YOU are doing assessment, let's see YOU stop doing assessment. His point is : it's not YOU, it's IT doing the assessment.
@@RRP714 Actually, it's a direct quotation, not my interpretation, and the emphasis in clear in Werner's voice. I don't know what you mean by "it" doing the assessment. Werner is clear that what the you is is this act of doing assessment. Where there's no assessment, there's no you; and where's there's no you, there's no assessment. Of course, once you're you you are "always already" doing assessment, so it doesn't help to try to "stop doing assessment" because that's just more YOU trying to stop being you. I take it that he is suggesting we switch to "philosophical" assessment--integrity, authenticity, commitment--as a more meaningful mode of assessment for trying to actually get us out of the YOU entirely and back into that state of peak performance in which the YOU naturally isn't there.
Many thanks Francesco. The link to the second part is not active. Is there another link to the subsequent parts please?
This is part 2: th-cam.com/video/H1z8pNNxM6M/w-d-xo.html
@@bertk1 Thank you!
Simar : You have destroyed my five 5⃣years.
The real red pill.
If I remember him, It's lots of philosophy..his philosophy.
No..at my best moments I am present. I think he has it backwards..in my best moments, I show up.
Is Werner the guy in the diner? sure sounds so.
In real world no one cares about promise, everyone do and act as per their want and demand.
hard to listen to the introduction by Werner. how can you not have awareness of your self??
What he means is you will forget everything about you and you are completely open to others experiencing with you..example having a great conversation on something which you don't have any position. You will enjoy your talk and you will enjoy even if other person contradict you..
first you become aware of the self we are thrown to be. Thus, an opening occurs where nothing is present . From this nothing BEING then speaking as a creative act ongoingly
Hey Andrew. I’m just going to paraphrase WE here: when you are working intently at something, are you aware of yourself? When you are happy-joyously hanging out with friends or doing something you love to do-are you aware of yourself? Or are you aware of the activity, the friends, the good feelings? Now, think about a time when you were embarrassed or came up short-didn’t you then become aware of “yourself”-as a kind of problem that you had to solve? The self always shows up as a psychological assessment-as a problem. Awareness is the opposite of self.
False Dilemma Fallacy. Sometimes called the “either-or” fallacy, a false dilemma is a logical fallacy that presents only two options or sides when there are many options or sides. Essentially, a false dilemma presents a “black and white” kind of thinking when there are actually many shades of gray. [Erhard stole a lot from Scientology and Landmark paints you into a corner - believe what we tell you or you're wrong - oh, and here's a new course that only costs...]
I didn't actually hear any dilemma expressed in Erhard's comments here. Referring to philosophical assessment, he said it's "an alternative" to psychological assessment. Identifying an alternative to something does not imply there are only two options or possibilities. Check out his comments around 18:50. There are many forms of assessment, so it seems your false dilemma fallacy doesn't really apply. Also, as I recall the est and Forum training specifically said you should not believe what they are telling you (belief being the least certain form of knowing anything, experience being the most certain). So I'm skeptical they told you to believe them or else you are wrong. Just an observation - there's room for diversity of opinion.
Existential NLP is what I would call it. You are bang on about the cult component of you're wrong if you don't believe.
That’s some stuff!
@@rwinga01 completely agree with this comment. The central idea of these conversations are about trying on a new view point, “not like the truth”, but as another way to interact with being in the world. On the other hand, If you want certainty like in the black or white analogy above or dogma (i.e., Scientology) this wouldn’t be your taste because it doesn’t define any truths.
Werner’s work is pretty much the opposite of Scientology-no levels of attainment, no alien mythology, no drug addicted, secluded, dying guru holding on desperately to power and cultish adulation. Werner walked away from est in the 80s without repudiating his own teachings or the organization. There’s nothing to believe in est-there’s only something to get. And that getting is an operational way of being in the world, not a set of beliefs to promulgate in endless books and courses. Werner isn’t perfect-and doesn’t claim to be-but the last thing he ever wanted was followers.
Lost two of my best friends to this "solution." One now works full-time for the Landmark cult/business. Destroyed many, many friendships. Smelled the BS and I walked out after twenty minutes...
You didn't lose them they moved forward in their lives. No surprise you could only take it for 20 minutes.
This is not a cult. It’s a philosophy. A way of looking at things. And it works well for lots of people. If all you got was 20 minutes, you have no idea what you missed. Let it go. Be joyous.
@@pdneff8171 Agree completely. My family and friends think they "lost me" to Scientology... but I'm clear and they are not. Soon I will be able to communicate telepathically with animals. Who's going to be laughing then?
@@jah8875 There is enough evidence out in the world to show that Scientology has nothing to do with Landmark a program. But you should check this with the animals.
@@vijayraman1002 Other than the fact that Erhard spent a lot of time in Scientology before forming est, I guess there's no evidence.