You are the first channel that played these two comments by two well known and respected pastors, side by side. It was an important thing to do because it gave such clarity and voice to why attending a gay marriage is sin. Thank you for this very important video.
Let us continue loving our precious brother in Christ. Others were shocked about Jesus talking to the Samaritan woman, weren't they? But Jesus told her about the water He would give her after which she would never thirst again. Alistair Begg never turned his back on Jesus Christ! Let us ask ourselves this simple question: WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?
@humbertothebeliever2443 I was NEVER mean spirited. A number of things happened in the intervening time between their ceremony and now. I called my sister-in-law to repentance. I explained to her that she and her lesbian partner are walking in darkness. She is estranged from her family. She wants our hardy approval and celebration of sodomy. Simply being tolerant is not good enough.
Alistair Begg is still a torch illuminating the Gospel. He is a man that struggles prayerfully with decisions, as we all do, in each individual case he has to face.I am so thankful for his ministry on the TV. Even if I may not have made the same choices as he made in this particular situation. I was there in Keswick when he spoke on this particular subject. He was quite clear about his stance . He will not condone same sex marriage. Hundreds of people heard him, and heard also him saying "They are not our enemies" .The whole Tent gave him an unusual applaud. We usually don't clap ministers after they speak. Everyone was relieved that he addressed this topic, as many people have to struggle with it. Rather Aistair Beggs ministry any day, then people who without knowing it have become only judgemental and forgotten how Jesus got down with sinners, after all that's what we all are.
His approach is the one of Jesus, coming not to condemn but to save. The other comments made in this clip... Wow. No wonder people hate Christians! And the lack of true theology of the bunch of men - astounding.
But why is EVERYONE disregarding the qualification AB gave at the beginning of that response: which is "Does your grandson understand your stance as a Christian and that you do not approve about the union"??? That to me is what everyone seems to be missing.
I agree. The grandson knew that they did not condone this ritual. A marriage is between a man and a woman and God doesn’t see this as a marriage. The grandparents are throwing out a lifeline because this is totally reversible. Now if they were driving a grandchild to an abortion clinic that’s irreversible, it cannot be undone. How many marriages end in divorce? 50% or more. These grandparents want to how show their love. Ere on the side of love rather than condemnation.
I heard what AB said and prefaced his advice to the lady with. I still disagree, based on scripture we are to not condone sin in any form. I have a niece who proclaims to be homosexual. I told her that I love her dearly but would not condone or support her choice. She is precious to me and I pray for her daily to be convicted. If I said nothing and went along to just get along in the hopes of showing her I love her, how could I justify telling her she is wrong in her choice if I participate? I will also stand before God and give an account of my actions, words and thoughts. The blood of Jesus is too precious to me to compromise, not to mention their soul.
@@jograham2645 To your point about not condone sin in any form, would you attend a wedding between a man and a woman if you knew that they had sexual relationship before marriage?
This topic hits home. I attended an engagement party for 2 men, one of which was a nephew. I informed my family, wife and kids, that they would not be allowed to go. My mother and the entire family (not my kids and wife) saw myself as hateful. I asked my mom, where’s the party for all the rest of our sins, the adultery, the drugs, the alcohol, the lying, etc; They said that’s different. I went to the event and told everyone there I loved them but do not support this event. That was not good enough in their eyes. Let us not forget at weddings you are there affirming the sacrament. You are told to speak now or forever hold your peace because this is what God has joined. I’ve spent 50 years with my family for thanksgiving. This year was the first time I was not invited.
So sorry to hear 😔- I can’t imagine what you are going through. I will pray for you and sincerely mean that. And, remember the words of Christ, “Rejoice when you are persecuted for His name for great will be your reward!” Thanks for sharing
So I admire and respect both of these pastors. I think Piper’s response is spot on Biblically, but I think Begg’s approach is coming from more of a practical, “long game” perspective. And it’s important to note that Begg IS saying that gay “marriage” isn’t a real thing and that practicing homosexuality is a sin. If I refused to go to the wedding, I would be concerned that it would effectively be ending the relationship with my family member and ending any chance I had of speaking into their life in the future. If I go, and preserve the relationship, that doesn’t happen. When the “marriage” has problems - and it will, as 70% of these relationships quickly end - then I would be there to lovingly help the person to see their sin and point them back to God. If I blow up the relationship, those two people are going to get “married” anyway. Saying “they’re the ones ending the relationship,” may be technically true and make me feel better, but what is my ultimate goal here? Am I trying to win a soul or win an argument?
@@venerablebede50You can’t serve two masters. To follow Christ, you must be willing to lose some relationships. Luke 14:26-27 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
My heart breaks because I have a family member that married in a same-gender relationship. I say that it's tough, because I have real love for the person. After prayer, we decided to love the person though not "approve" of the "act" of marriage, which is not defined. Now, more than a half decade has elapsed and children are involved. We are so joyful, and we thank God continuously. We do condemn that worldly process... but condemning the people would have irreparable consequences. I do not sense the Lord telling me to hate them, but to, even now, love them. And, we do. And we praise God for every remembrance of them... yet still not approving. When we have meals together, we pray... and we are genuine in doing so. When we write, we bring the Lord into our communication. I'm not confused. I simply do not hate them... and I don't do hateful and unkind acts (or attitudes) toward them... and I seek the Lord's "help" in this, even knowing what Scriptures teach. Unless the Lord tells me, I will love them (as agape as my spirit and will can muster with His help) until the Lord calls me home or the Lord hits me on the head with a 2-by-4. May God be glorified as we move toward His perfection!
Hard fact is ,not very many of us truly grasp the whole counsel of God written in the Scripture;we tend to listen to people we assumed spiritual and mature.Let’s search the scriptures and let God speak to us.❤
I would share with the grandchild my disagreement and how his decision breaks my heart and God’s heart, but I would attend, letting him know that I can’t be happy for him.
Alistair Begg gave very specific advice to a specific person in a very specific circumstance. He made it very clear that the event was against the will of God and the grandmother had made it very clear to her loved one her position as a Christian. This grandson is living the life of an unbeliever and as such is living as an unrepentant sinner in need of redemption and needs the loving guidance of a grandmother's witness as she lives a godly life for him to see. Godly witness is loving witness not alienation through condemnation. This is a fallen world we live in already condemned by God save for the godly love of people who love God and neighbor. As that event was progressing that grandson's heart may have been stirred by the presence of his grandmother knowing her disapproval yet lovingly there. Who among us does not have loved ones living lives apart from God that we pray for continually desiring their redemption. Getting people to change their behavior doesn't save them from God's judgement and His wrath. It's not the gospel message.
The challenge is that attendance is affirmation. Bringing a gift is affirmation. We can claim that we can't countenance the relationship. Then we turn around and not only countenance it, but affirm it. This is blatant hypocrisy. Surely there's a way to love the grandson without requiring hypocrisy.
@@stadler72going is not “affirming the relationship”, it’s “affirming the love” that you have for that child, grandchild, etc. Love leads to change more often than beating someone down over and over with your beliefs.
Everyone just take a moment and really try to understand what Begg is saying. If the grandson knows the faith and stance of the grandmother then he knows there is love, but also knows there is not approval!
Why might a Christian refuse to attend, cater, or participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony? For simplicity's sake, let's assume this is a discussion among traditional Christians who believe-as the church has always believed and as most of the global church still believes-that same-sex behavior is sinful and that marriage is a covenantal, conjugal union of a man and a woman. With that clarifying comment, we can address the question head-on: Why would a Christian feel conscience bound not to attend or participate in a gay wedding? It's not because of bigotry or fear or because we are unaware that Jesus spent time with sinners that leads us to this conclusion. It's because of our desire to be obedient to Christ and because of the nature of the wedding event itself. A wedding ceremony, in the Christian tradition, is first of all a worship service. So if the union being celebrated in the service cannot be biblically sanctioned as an act of worship, we believe the service lends credence to a lie. We cannot in good conscience participate in a service of false worship. I understand that does not sound very nice, but the conclusion follows from the premise, namely, that the "marriage" being celebrated is not in fact a marriage and should not be celebrated. Moreover, there has long been an understanding that those present at a marriage ceremony are not just casual observers, but they are witnesses who are granting their approval and support for the vows that are to be made. That's why the traditional language speaks of gathering "here in the sight of God, and in the face of this congregation." That's why one of the sample marriage services in the Presbyterian Church in America still has the minister say: If any man can show just cause why they may not lawfully be wedded, let him now declare it, or else hereafter forever hold his peace. Quite explicitly, the wedding is not a party for friends and family. It's not a mere ceremonial formality. It is a divine event in which those gathered celebrate and honor the "solemnization of matrimony." Which is why-as much as I might want to build bridges with a lesbian friend or reassure a gay family member that I care for him and want to have a relationship with him-I would not attend a same-sex wedding ceremony. I cannot help with my cake, with my flowers, or with my presence to solemnize what is not holy. In taking such a position, I've often heard things like this in response: But Jesus hung out with sinners. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. He would say to us, "If someone forces you to bake one cake, bake for him two." Okay, let's think through these objections. I mean actually think for a few sentences, and not just with slogans and vague sentimentality. Jesus hung out with sinners. True, sort of (depends on what you mean by "hung out"). But Jesus believed marriage was between a man and a woman (Matt. 19:3-9). The example of Christ in the Gospels teaches us that we should not be afraid to spend time with sinners. If a gay couple next door invites you over for dinner, don't turn them down. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. That's not the concern here. This isn't about cooties or sin germs. We have plenty of those ourselves. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. But Jesus did so all the time. He acted in ways that could be unintentionally, and more often deliberately, antagonistic (Matt. 7:6, 13-27; 11:20-24; 13:10-17; 19:16-30). Jesus turned people off all the time. This is no excuse for us to be unthinking and unkind. But it should put to rest the unbiblical notion that says if someone feels hurt by your words or unloved by your actions that you were ipso facto sinfully and foolishly unloving. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. Amen. Let's keep preaching Christ and preach as He did, calling all people to "repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15). If someone forces to you bake one cake, bake for him two. This is, of course, a true and beautiful principle about how Christians, when reviled, must not revile in return. But it hardly can mean that we do whatever people demand no matter our rights (Acts 4:18-20; 16:35-40; 22:22-29) and no matter what is right in God's eyes. A wedding is not a dinner invitation or a graduation open house or retirement party. Even in a completely secular environment, there is still a sense-and sometimes the wedding invitations say as much-that our presence at the event would honor the couple and their marriage. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to attend a wedding (let alone cater it or provide the culinary centerpiece) without your presence communicating celebration and support for what is taking place. And, as painful as it may be for us and for those we love, celebrating and supporting homosexual unions is not something God or His Word will allow us to do.
Actions speak louder than words. Her very presence will say that she accepts his choice. Although he has been a beacon of truth…Pastor Begg is way off on this. We are so much more concerned with being accepted, and loved, and “non-judgmental” than we are with being holy. And that is a grave disease that is infiltrating the church.
I would also not attend the wedding, but would you have the same response if the couple had gotten divorced outside of God's guidelines some years earlier and are not currently believers? I just think we have to be careful in separating this situation from other sins involving adultery in a past life. Many of my relatives are re-married and I didn't refuse to go to the wedding because of it. Alistair is not perfect so I think making a blanket rejection of his ministry is not the thing to do.
Alistair says, "does your grandson know that you can't countenance him in any affirming way" and then tells her to go to the wedding. The fact that you attend is countenancing in an affirming way!
You cannot say how the grandmother's attendance at the event will be perceived by her grandson and by the others, when you don't even know the people involved.
I don't think Pastor Begg is not supporting the lifestyle,but rather he is encouraging the grandmother to show her love,not asking to condone the grandchild's lifestyle. He is telling her she is not to judge,but to love.
Matthew 10, 10:34-39 specifically, the sword Jesus brought wasn't to champion the queer lobby in America. The Angel of the Lord didn't incarnate to help the bigots get woke and gay it up like the pederast hellenized Jews either. 🤦♂️
You're defeating your own argument, because that is exactly what Begg was telling her to do. Attending the union means she is giving her approval to the lifestyle.
Piper nailed it! Keep praying for Alistair Begg, he’s a sinner like everyone else. We want him back right with God and thinking correctly. We all have to examine our selves to see if we are lining up with Gods Word. Right?❤️
In Christ's letter to the 7 churches through the apostle John, the church at Ephesus was commended for their dedication to doctrine, but they got "off-balance" and forgot their first love, loving God and Christ with all their heart, soul, mind and strength, and loving others as themselves. I see in the Evangelical church in America at times, the reverse of this, at times we sacrifice doctrine on the altar of love and we can end up, if not careful, affirming sin. It really is a hard balance to walk, and the only guide we have is sacred scripture. No matter which side of this event we take, let's not persecute Alistair Begg, but only turn to scripture as our guide of what we should do in all scenarios.
Pastor Begg gave advice to a grandmother not all people. It had to do with their relationship . Her grandson knew she did not agree with it. Pastor Begg agrees that homosexuality is wrong .
How many have knowingly attended the wedding of those: -who were fornicators (sex before marriage)? -who were previously married and divorced? -who were adulterers? -who were liars/slanderers? -who were thieves? -who were idolators? And what shall we say then? We must fully abide in the Holy Spirit and stand faithful in the truth of the Word of our Lord and we must be careful in not being quick to condemn and accuse according to the cultural evils of the day. May the Lord give all who seek by His Spirit His wisdom and grace- May He lead us in truth on this narrow path in righteousness and humility.
5:52 I love your response. Cast the first stone, you could have included gluttons and slothful people. As a counselor and pastor I feel it my responsibility to assess all sides, and give the person the right to make their own choice. Going to that wedding may simply be a response of “I love you” not necessarily that I endorse your life style. We cannot alienate the generation in which almost 30 percent declare LGBTQ identity. What is our true calling? Where have we failed our culture? This is a call for the church to meet culture with truth and respect. I liked AB’s balance - “if you don’t go, they may feel you don’t love them and are judging and alienating them.” How to live in a cultural dive - that is a big question.
Marriage represents Jesus relationship with us (and God's with Israel-she was His wife). We are His bride, He is the groom. Every wedding I have attended has included everyone on your list (including myself) however, all those weddings had a bride and a groom, a gay or trans wedding does not.
As christians are we to show the world what we can and cannot do(Law)?Or do we show them grace(Love)? We forget this is how God dealt with us. While we were dead in sin he saved us. Homosexuals are dead in sin. You going or not going doesn’t change them. But you going and Loving them despite how you feel about the relationship opens up doors for gospel conversations. Which is what AB was saying. Have we forgotten the heart of the Gospel? Loving a fallen and broken world? Love is not just saying truth and standing by it with your chest out. Love is doing difficult things like showing up to a homosexual wedding with tears in your eyes because you oppose the marriage and giving them the Word of God as a gift. Which is what our faith is A GIFT!!! Im grateful AB gave that advice and he even stated he wouldn’t do it in every situation. I can say I agree with AB because my son got married to another man almost a year ago. I told him where I stood and dont agree . And when they said their vows we stepped out of the room. At the end he told us thank you for loving me even tho you dont agree with me. This is what God did with us. He loved us while we were rebellious. And if anyone says what we can and cannot do as a response is missing the point of what we are allowed to do which is Love. Love requires action not just words
Those that are judging Allistair Begg so passionately must be careful because they might actually be instruments in the hands of the evil one that knows that LGBTQ issues are such emotive subjects that he now uses your harsh judgement of Allistair Begg to draw a line through the powerful messages he brought the world for many years. AB has made it very clear that he honours the Biblical view on LGBTQ but while he despises the sin he does not advise a grandmother to despise the sinner! Is that not exactly what Jesus taught us when advising those without sin to cast the first stone. And if Jesus did not want to associate with sinners would he have attended the Last Supper knowing that Judas was there? Thank you Allistair Begg for practising what you have been preaching over many decades THE LOVE OF GOD!
Singer Amy Grant conducted a homosexual "wedding" for her lesbian niece. Many are falling away ... deceived people don't know they're deceived, because they're deceived.
"At that time many will turn away from the faith..." (Matthew 24:10) "Now the Spirit [a]expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons," (1 Timothy 4:1) "Abstain from all appearance of evil." (1 Thessalonians 5:22)
Many of these pastors have forgotten that the Church is the Bride of Christ , redeemed by Him, and not them . They are consumed by their prideful behavior and action.
I believe that is a historic archive form JP, I have been concerned with more recent comments on issues e.g. easing the consciences of those who wish to vote for the evils of the democrat party (and I am not an American so partisan politics is irrelevant), so a direct response to the issue from JP to AB may still come and that will be very interesting to see, I would hope and pray that he indeed doubles down on these earlier comments, which are the truth for sure...
There is no divorce and remarriage that is condoned by God either, and like the radio man said he would tell his friend to repent and return to his wife. So John Piper is a big hypocrite because he says divorce and remarriage is adultery, but then his own son got divorced and remarried and John Piper WENT TO THE WEDDING!!! He went to an "adultery marriage" and his son is a an associate pastor in a church in his 2nd marriage. This is horrible! Alistair Begg, John MacArthur and most all pastors are corrupted on divorce and remarriage for decades which is the apostasy in the last days. Jesus is coming, and most are going to be left behind.
There is no divorce and remarriage that is condoned by God either, and like the radio man said he would tell his friend to repent and return to his wife. So John Piper is a big hypocrite because he says divorce and remarriage is adultery, but then his own son got divorced and remarried and John Piper WENT TO THE WEDDING!!! He went to an "adultery marriage" and his son is a an associate pastor in a church in his 2nd marriage. This is horrible! Alistair Begg, John MacArthur and most all pastors are corrupted on divorce and remarriage for decades which is the apostasy in the last days. Jesus is coming, and most are going to be left behind.
I went to a lesbian wedding about 10-ish years ago then I heard a preacher say that is like high-fiving someone on the way to hell. The other conviction I had at that moment realizing I cannot sit there and lovingly approve of someone else's sinful lifestyle became incredibly real
@@samhazzard3810 I'm not even sure if I could track them down I barely knew one of them and I didn't know the other girl at all and I do not know what last name to look up either. But maybe I should try go to track them down. Thanks
Eight months later I am still trying to wrap my brain around Pastor Begg’s advice to the grandmother. And, still trying to understand his doubling down on it. His haughty attitude and negative insinuations against his detractors is as well. It saddens me because I’ve followed him for YEARS.
I think it is a reminder that our modern day hero’s of the faith will, at times, make judgement errors; some more egregious than others. But, that should be expected. AB isn’t Jesus and therefore will make mistakes. I wish it was a different one than this, but I pray he will learn from it.
I appreciate using John Piper to give the correct way that we should view this issue, but putting in your video title 'John Piper response' is a little misleading. It read like JP had responded to AB, which isn't the case.
Hi Josh, it is a play on expectation. I did not say John responded to Alistair, I simply said he had a response. Part of the TH-cam title world and thumbnail approach involves playing with expectations. I think your comment comes from your expectation that John replied directly to Alistair about his comment, but I didnt say he did that, else I would agree with you it would be misleading. Did John Piper respond to the situation that Alistair addressed? Yes. Is John’s view a different view than Alistair’s, thus verses each other? Yes. Did I say John Piper responded to Alistair regarding this comment? No. Again, a play with view expectation. But, my hope is you still found value in the content and see that John does respond, just not in the way you might have first imagined. Thanks for the comment and stopping by!
This was a very important video and I don't think it was clickbait at all. I had heard the John Piper comment before, so I knew of it and feel that finally putting the two comments by two very significant pastors side by side, was noteworthy.
@@impish22 If you would have asked Pastor Begg another day if he would attend a gay wedding, he probably would have had a similar response to Piper's, but the grandmother's situation was a different one that he felt needed a different response.
@@kobusvdw how exactly are you convicting MacArthur of a lack of brotherly love? I've heard his comment on the matter and he made clear he holds Alistair in great affection and values his ministry. In the context of that though he is saddened. I thought MacArthur made a reasoned and wise response and I don't see your issue with it.
Alistair really nailed it on how the life of Christ should flow through us and not be the Pharisee on the sidelines with no love, grace, mercy and compassion all this in which we were once given and were not deserving of. Should a Christian withhold that which they were once given is the question?
I wonder…Have you ever gone to a movie in which two actors who are each married to other people carried on a romance onscreen? Hugged and kissed? Do you know actors must feel themselves to be completely in character - to be that person - in order to act the role? Have you paid to see them doing that? How many of you who wouldn’t attend a transgender wedding (which is what the grandmother asked about, not a gay wedding) actually look at porn privately? How many might even look at lesbian porn? How many have had affairs, be they emotional or physical affairs? And would not attend the wedding of your child because it was wrong? If anyone is clean of sexual sin, even lust of the heart, he is eligible to miss his transgender child’s wedding.
With Piper 100%! I have a child professing to be gay , she knows I am a Christian & love her but do not affirm her choices to sin. And she is blatant in her desire to reject the Gospel & GOD. It would not be loving for me to affirm her engagement or attend a lie of a wedding. The church is called to call out sin and bring sanctions for Sin as a loving act to bring the sinner to repentance. I am grieved deeply that Alistair has taken a soft & totally unbiblical stance causing this grandmother to stumble by bad counsel. She was shocked at his answer, I think she knew the right thing was to not go & her heart was tugged by the flesh & in so doing quenched the Spirit of GOD saying NO, you cannot honor GOD and attend an abomination against GOD. Allister can still repent and correct his great error.
You will not change your daughter's mind by boycotting her event. You'll just be estranged possibly for the rest of your life. Either way, it's between her and God.
@JohnJones-qy5ko the point is not to change her mind. The point is to stand for Truth. Going or not going will not change her mind. Attending simply endorses her sinful choices.
@@JohnJones-qy5kobtw, it may ultimately be between the daughter and God, but the mother is called to be salt and light and participating in a gay wedding is sin for her. Its just not about the gay daughter.
@falsecraigslist3160 you just gave me one of the most misquoted and misunderstood passages of Scripture that people cite when trying to impose a worldly argument on Christians. You don't understand the context of that verse or good hermeneutics. Your interpretation argues that we should never judge sin and that is completely contrary to Scripture. What do you do with John 7:24? Or Ephesians 5:11? The context of Jesus's statement in Matthew 7:3-5 is to not think of yourselves better than others and delude yourself that you are without sin yourself. In fact, it states to recognize and repent of your sins before you go call out the sin and someone else. It doesn't say you never call out the sin in someone else. But the main point is, as Christ followers, we are not to participate in sin. We are to be Salt and Light.
@falsecraigslist3160 I do not understand your comment about Jesus turning water into wine and a person misnterpreting that as advocating drunkenness, to how that relates to the our discussion? You should develop what you're getting at further because, on the face of it, it's an irrelevant tangent. Also, what you wrote in your first paragraph about standing up and making our positions clear is exactly what this mother is doing! You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You're also putting forth positions that the mother is not doing. She's not forcing her daughter to do anything. She's stating her position on her daughter marrying a woman. You wrote a long diatribe, but to sum up your overall arc, you keep confusing standing up for Christian principles as the act of condemning someone. Do you know there is a difference between standing up for truth and condemning? You obviously do not. Condemning is making a pronouncement on someone's final state. We do not know the future of this gay daughter. We are simply called out to be ambassadors for Christ and ambassadors for His truth. What that means is we can't be like the Spanish Inquisition and bring corporal punishment on people who go against God's ways. But you take it to the other extreme and say we must shut up about God's command that the institution of marriage is between one man and one woman. We are to pronounce Truth are we not? Yes, we do that in love. And that is exactly what this mother is doing. She's not calling the cops on her daughter. She didn’t say she would disown the daughter and declare they no longer have a relationship ( I agree that would be sin). She's saying she won't attend the wedding. She is standing up for her principals and the teachings of Christ by doing that. If the gay daughter feels judged by that, that's on the daughter, NOT the mother. Your analysis of biblical texts is very poor. I suggest you get and read "Biblical Hermenuetics" by Milton S Terry.
Thank you for sharing this clarification of the situation. When I first heard of the controversy I too was surprised, but not nearly as surprised to hear Pastor Begg and his team double down on what he said. My only suggestion for further clarity is that the narrative of Dr. Piper was originally recorded in 2013, and not in response to what Pastor Begg said. That said, I can't imagine Dr. Piper would have strayed at all from what he said during the podcast titled "Would you attend a gay wedding?" but it is inaccurate to present that recording from 2013 as done in response to Begg's comments to the grandmother he was counseling.
Thank you for fact checking John Piper's comments from 2013 eleven years ago that was used. Sometimes we use social media and it causes more division in the church. God is the final judge for all of this. I am cautious about all videos Christian or non-Christian. Do we know if the grandmother went to the wedding and what was the result? 😢 or 😂🎉
I'm glad Alistair Begg is standing firm. He has made it plain his position on such marriages, but also knows to have the best outcome cutting communication and not showing Grandma's Christian beliefs will not further the gospel. For all those who disagree and condem him, if you are without sin yourselves you may cast the first stone.
Scripture? ”Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.“ Ephesians 5:6-12 NASB1995
We can recognize our sin and others without condoning it. Jesus said, "Judge rightly." By attending the wedding, the grandmother is saying she approves and that God will forgive and approve as well, because she is God's representative on Earth. How does that help the granddaughter get saved? "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." Psalm 1:1 kvj
Di not attend gay and transgender wedding,. attending and not attending doesn't change our status but only Christ.but it's clear in the bible,"2 Cor 6:14 " is so clear.you don't need to be a theologian to understand this verse.
There are Christians who have refused to take wedding pictures, make wedding cakes for these couples. They've lost their business over this and now a grandmother should buy a gift and celebrate?
Is possible to go to wedding and not celebrate? In Alistair Beggs 50 plus years of ministry has he ever given a reason to believe he isn’t orthodox in doctrine? Seems people are assuming much here in a vague story about a grandmother and her lost grandson.
I would add when another believer stumbles in error we ought to make an effort to pray for him. Therefore we ought pray for Alastair Begg that the Holy Spirit guide him to truth in this matter.
I think there should be some liberty in this matter - exactly how to demonstrate love without compromising God's standard for marriage is tricky business. Should we attend a marriage if the couple probably or likely lived together beforehand, or if one of them has been divorced? If Alistair Begg is fully persuaded in his own mind, I'll not condemn his conviction. Would I attend a gay/transgender wedding? Depends on who it is and the nature of my relationship with them, i.e. if my attendance would demonstrate the love and grace of Christ without sacrificing his truth.
That is the crux of the matter. There is not a path where you can sin and attend. Attending is the sin because one would be in violation of Romans 1:32
@@ChroniclesOfClarityRomans 1:32 is not a commandment of law, even if it was, mercy triumphs over judgment. Because Christ provides our righteousness we are free to be like our father in heaven and show love and mercy even towards sinners in hopes they will turn from their sin and the power of Satan and to Christ and the power of God. See Romans 2:4 God’s kindness is intended to lead us to repentance. This verse emphasizes that it is not fear or judgment that draws us to turn from sin, but rather the goodness mercy and grace of God. I think we will be fine if we do the same.
I just want to say I have counseled on this. In fact, I am facing it again in my own family. Parents must draw a line in the sand. Are we going to teach our children truth or just cave to whatever they want - right or wrong? It’s hard. It hurts. It’s right according to my God whom I worship and follow.
Please take note: This clip of John Piper was NOT in response to the Alistair Begg Controversy - Piper's comments was made in his Podcast Episode 191 on Oct.10, 2013. The impression that is given is that Piper is part of the "judges" who hang Begg out there to suffocate and die. How sad! I fully agree with Piper on this topic. My big problem with this whole controversy though, is the pastor's who are outspoken in public (Lawson, MacArthur, Peters, Mohler etc.) - what happened to brotherly love? What happened to Matthew 18 and various other verses. Couldn't they just phoned him/flew to him and spoke in private with him as friend and brother and then cut him off if he does not repent. Can you hear the world/the enemy? NO, they are quiet, but they laugh about us as Christians who are destroying a brother who was faithful for many years. Was it not MAcArthur who once said that Christ's blood is not God's blood? Did Martin Lloyd Jones not also made heretical remarks at a stage in his ministry? Or JI Packer, Martin Luther, John Calvin and many other Church Fathers, and yet we still "drink in' what they preach?
@@kobusvdw You make a good point about his peers speaking to him privately. How do we know they did not? Regardless of any private conversations, I believe we benefit from thoughtful public discussions from careful-thinking leaders. I agree wholeheartedly with your point that "destroying a brother" should be avoided. Respectfully disagreeing with Alistair's advice, however, need not "destroy" him. Alistair can weigh the costs, and do as he believes is correct. He will not be "destroyed" over this. The topic is a timely one, and polite public discussions are valuable.
I feel sorry for the Grandmother. The poor woman asked someone she believed would be able to give her guidance, and after listening to what Begg said, probably bought a present and attended the event. She was lead astray by a false preacher who was considered a very sound Gospel believing Christian, and sinned because of it.
Grandma could/should have told her grandson that she loves him deeply, but since he knows her faith, she will have to pass on attending the wedding. Obviously, he did not respect her faith by asking her to begin with.
@@kimberlygenaw1502 You are 100% right. However to be fair to the Grandmother, she may be elderly and just got into a tizzy over this. Unsure what to do, she asked for advice, and got Begg unfortunately. But as I said, you're totally right, she should have done as you said and stayed at home.
I am hoping that she will come forward and declare that she decided not to attend the wedding but she probably won't do that even if she did not attend, because she won't want to upset her grandson. Upsetting her grandson by not going to the wedding is necessary but upsetting him by talking about this publicly is not necessary.
I too feel sorry for her. I would push back a bit and say I don’t agree Alistair is a “false preacher”. I suppose time will tell, but making a biblical mistake is something everyone does, it doesn’t mean we are false, it just means we are sinful. Thanks for the comment!
I listened to Allistair's message last September when it was released. I was relieved by his wisdom to not let pharisaical legalism guide every step he takes. Our role as believers is to be in the world, with the lost, holding their hand in their pain, misery, mistakes, and their sin. To guide them to the love of Jesus through the love of Jesus in our hearts. Locking ourselves up in the church and standing on our high horse of religious superiority isn't going to point anyone to Christ. Pastor Begg made the stance of the believer clear from the onset of his words. He did not tell the woman to congratulate the marriage and he did not tell her to go to the reception. He told her to show up and stand as a light in a very dark situation. Do you know what is missing from anything said by AFA, John Piper, and Goff? There is no mention of loving from the heart. Do you know the kind of love, praise, commitment, and obedience God wants from us? It does not come from legalism, but from the heart. I know many Christians who struggled and were torn to pieces trying to decide if they should go to a wedding or not. The Church told them not to. But guess what? They had no peace in their hearts over it. A Christian can stand anywhere for Jesus with proper discernment and by the strength of the Holy Spirit. You don't have to play the fool and "congratulate" sin, and Pastor Begg didn't suggest that. You all did. The right-wing, conservative, overly legalistic and pharisaical, seemingly perfect branch of Christians did. And just to add, I can't even listen to AFA. I have not found more proud and judgmental Christians anywhere.
Scripture? ”Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.“ Ephesians 5:6-12
Wow…I was leaning in Alistair’s direction because I believe his stance was in line with the love of scripture but Piper’s take was stunning and absolutely on point. Thanks for playing both, it really helped me think this through biblically. I’m still not dumping on Alistair but Pipers take is better.
This is a prime example of how evangelicals are reactionary and draw lines too hastily without listening to one another. Alister is not making a general, blanket statement! He said the woman made it clear where she stood, between the loved one and herself, and that her attendance was not an affirmation of the union but of her love for her family member. He didn't address the reception. One can leave a gift without going to a reception, and the gift could be marked for her loved one alone. Of course, Christians will differ on this issue, but it seems possible to do it faithfully, in a way that does not affirm the union, only love for the relative. What disturbs me is the lack of listening that leads to these sorts of reactionary responses. Satan loves this sort of thing. Instead of infiltrating Satan's kingdom, we end up fighting each other.
I think you nhave missed the point. Begg's failure to apply the Scriptures to the lady's question speaks loudly. Attendance at the reception is irrelevant.Attendance at the performance of the "marriage" is what this is all about. Begg is a church leader thus greater responsibility lies on him when he pronounces on an issue ."Infiltrating Satan's kingdom" ?
No. You're the one whose being controversial. Christians need to stop apologizing for their position. We need go on with our lives and let the world be the world.
AB is spot on when the qualification is first made that they are aware that the grandmother does not support the lifestyle. Showing up is not by definition supporting the lifestyle, your words are what matter. Jesus still shows up for us even in our sin. He condemns the action, but he doesn’t stop showing up.
I went to my cousin's wedding to another woman. I went because I felt it important to keep those lines of communication open. I bought them a Bible. Later she asked me my opinion and I said that I believe homosexuality is wrong but so is Buddhism and I went to a Buddhist wedding ceremony also.
John Piper has said it perfectly. Alistair Begg needs to be given this clip and ask for a response. The response will define where he is at. There is no fine line, Alistair. Scripture makes it very clear that we are to celebrate the truth, not sin, as John Piper made clear. I'm praying for Alistair
But in practice John Piper is also a false teacher because he tells people not to divorce and remarry or it is adultery and he went to his son's "adultery marriage" wedding. His son is divorced and remarried and is an associate pastor of a church in Tennessee. How can you attend an adulterous wedding when you know that God hates divorce and that marriage is a one flesh union between only one man and only one woman for life? Even if your spouse commits adultery, that isn't grounds for divorce (only for fornication during the Jewish betrothal- use KJV, ASV, JUB). Hosea was married to a prostitute, and her adultery didn't give grounds for Hosea to divorce and remarry.
So where is the line drawn with attending weddings that are deemed sinful? John Piper has taught that his belief is that all remarriage after divorce is sinful if the original spouse is still living. Yet, he attended the wedding of his son who was getting remarried. I personally disagree with Pipers stance on the issue, but by his own belief is he not in the wrong as well?
Alistair Begg did a beautiful sermon on this Compassion vs Condemnation. These are very difficult times to walk as a Chirstian. He handled the sermon, so well. I am in agreement with Pastor Begg and find know biblical error in his response. Condemnation closes the door; Compassion leave it open for the Gospel. This has been helpful in knowing how to deal with family events and knowing how to respond.
To be consistent with his theological philosophy, Piper would HAVE to say: “Beggs said what he did because God determined that he did.” Piper’s response is a denial of his long stated and standing philosophy … Beggs was doing what God wanted him to do.
God is the Judge of us all, and He will take care of any correct or incorrect statements. Quietly pray about your concerns, and wait for God to work things out. Judging publicly, talking it into the ground, will only damage and bring worse . Please don’t burn Pastor Begg at the stake! I probably wouldn’t said that, but look at Pastor Begg! He is Faithful, and True. If he made a mistake, God will speak with him about it!
Hi Patti… I don’t think I burned him at the stake, not my intent. Though, I do want to say responding publicly to public comments is how it should be handled.
There is no divorce and remarriage that is condoned by God either, and like the radio man said he would tell his friend to repent and return to his wife. So John Piper is a big hypocrite because he says divorce and remarriage is adultery, but then his own son got divorced and remarried and John Piper WENT TO THE WEDDING!!! He went to an "adultery marriage" and his son is a an associate pastor in a church in his 2nd marriage. This is horrible! Alistair Begg, John MacArthur and most all pastors are corrupted on divorce and remarriage for decades which is the apostasy in the last days. Jesus is coming, and most are going to be left behind.
We cannot choose to please men over God. This is something I am constantly working on as I am a peacemaker and people pleaser due to personality as well as growing up in a difficult environment. We cannot compromise when it comes to God’s word.
I’ve gone to heterosexual weddings where I thoroughly doubted the faith and commitment of the bride and groom. I still went, not because I approve but because I love them.
@@ChroniclesOfClarity right, not the same issue. Alastair was clear that the grandmother had told the grandson that it was sin. In that case, and only in that case, how is it different from Jesus eating and drinking with sinners. It was the Pharisees who objected to that. Jesus told people to go and sin no more, but he didn’t refuse to be around them.
Hello all, this is already a few months old, but I feel and think it is worth leaving here at least two thoughts. It almost seems to me like some people, or indeed a general consensus, are admitting (or have admitted) a charge against Pastor Begg on the basis of one witness (1 Tim. 5:19). This clip is one of about a minute which needs to be reconciled not only with the sermons he gave before on similar topics but also on what he shared with his congregation, where he was able and free to explain more. In this he made it clear that he wouldn’t encourage a person to take part in the wedding (as the man from the podcast gave as example), nor did he tell the grandmother to support the wedding itself. Instead he advised her to go only to show the love of Christ, even in this to actually bear witness and testify to the family at the wedding in the hopes that they would repent. A separate thought on the giving of a gift is that it is not abnormal to give sinners gifts, we do it all the time, but in this case many see it to be far worse than in the others. Pastor Begg is not a stranger to asking for prayer from his congregation and, I imagine, from others. His approach to this was not as one who advised her to endorse the wedding, but to imitate Christ who dined with tax collectors, sinners, and prostitutes and shared the Gospel with them. Christ knew the woman at the well was an adulteress, even living as such right at that time with her 5th husband. He didn’t turn her away or refuse to associate with her, instead he interacted with her and shared with her the Gospel that she would then turn to him. It is my understanding that Pastor Begg advised the woman to model her interactions like that. God bless you all :)
I think Begg is a Godly man who gave unwise council. It is just the fact that this unwise council is a grave mistake in this cultural moment in the church
Thank you for addressing this the way you did…John Piper’s response to all of this is just the way you would expect a Christ Follower to respond. I have seen the “Fundamentalist’s response to Pastor Alistair on this issue and they were everything but loving…that was, quite honestly, as grievous as what Pastor Alistair said that started all of this. I believe the response your platform gave to this was very God honoring…so, again, thank-you!! This is what Truth with Love and Grace looks like!!
We can say now that the devil is having a heyday. It is also giving a platform for self righteous people to express thier "what they would or would not have given as counsel". Most Biblical TRUE Christians know what God's Word says about a Biblical marriage. Have we looked at this situation as an opportunity?, for this grandmother to have a future impact through her Faith in Jesus to give a reason for her belief in what God has ordained with gentleness & respect, thus helping the grandson or partner to turn from their sin, repenting & ultimately desolving the relationship & giving it up for God!! All things are possible with God!! We need to be careful in calling someone in the ministry to such controversy that it drives others away from the very truth you feel you are conveying. "Sometimes we are smug and we don't know we are smug, because we are smug." Seriously, consider that comment.
If attendance is approval, how does that work with going to the grocery store? Wouldnt the same reasoning destroy all outreach? What about bar, prison, casino, even strip club ministries? If you have a bar ministry, amd you have to pay a cover charge to get in, how is that not the same as this mystical "presence=approval" thing?
I support Alister Begg's decision to preach Luke 15. His counsel to the grandmother was to be Christ-like. Jesus not only had lunch with harlots and tax collectors, but Jesus also had lunch with His enemies, the Pharisees and Scribes. Jesus told the Pharisees that harlots and tax collectors would enter the kingdom before them. Luke 15 is a great choice, to demonstrate Alister's good counsel to this loving grandmother. How did we ever get to the place where the Pharisees and Scribes are once again running the moral choices of Christians? We have made the world our enemy. The world is not the problem. The Pharisees have taken over the church. I have three cousins that are gay. Does that mean that I can never attend family functions? Am I compromising my stand as a preacher, hell no!!! They are well aware of my TH-cam channel. When did we get to the place when we shun Christ-like behavior? From my perspective, Alister Begg has a great opportunity to make a stand. We need to call the church back to Christ, because we have left him behind a long time ago. We need to return to the teachings of Christ. He is our standard. Not the moral standards put forth by the Pharisees of today.
There are 2 beliefs that Alistair holds. He sincerely believes scripture. He sincerely belives that his reasoning to go and bring a gift is the best way to influence her grandson toward Christianity. His reasoning on scripture is sound. His reasoning on the 2nd is in error. He sincerely believes that his advice is the best course and does not see the contradiction. Most fundamental in his reasoning is that it's based on the outcome, the effect of not attending, rather than the biblical principle. I don't think it's pride, although I can't know that, he unfortunately believes the attendance will produce the best chance of future salvation for the grandson. All of us struggle sometimes between compassion/love and truth of principle; and I hope Alistair will rethink his reasoning.
Thank you Michael. You have made it all very clear. it is baffling how this has all happened. lets hope Alistair realizes the error of his words and the damage they will do.
Satan is having a field day. We know that we’re all sinners and we also know that if we are guilty of one sin, we’re guilty of them all. Now we have all of these judges that have websites and most of them have already condemned Alistair Begg for what they believe was for his sin. They even went so far as to take him off the radio where he had close to half a million listeners. Satan and his minions are all celebrating. Let’s go after John MacArthur next.
that is a very strong reply and any one that comments is by nature making a judgement. Alistair has shocked the christian world with his views. He has made his views abundantly clear and will not back down. Therefore we have a right to disagree. what Satan would actually like is if Christians remained silent on extreme doctrines and we all went around with a soporific smile on our faces claiming peace to all. That is not how the gospel works. True love demands truth and a brother who is in error should be pulled back from that error. that my friend is true love.@@RichardSmith-dj2th
Did Alistair probe the conscience of the grandmother before giving his answer? It sounds as though she had serious reservations and was confused and surprised by Alistair's response. If his response caused her to dismiss her reservations, I would find that to be problematic and largely unethical. Alistair cannot set aside matters of conscience; such is not an act of love.
There is an old clip of Alastair Begg saying he is too simple to understand the marriage and divorce issue and that he was comfortable with remarriage. As someone who is fighting for my marriage and does not believe that remarriage is Biblical I am sensitive about this and I believe that the exception clause only appears in Matthew which was written to Jews and is the context of betrothal (ie Joseph willing to divorce Mary). The fact that he gave his opinion under the cover of being a “simple man” was very disappointing and distanced me from him.
Love vs righteousness. What do you think Jesus (who ate with sinners) would choose in this gay wedding circumstance, especially if it was His earthly family? Judgment or Love (and Peace)? We would be better equipped to be seeking the Lord's will earnestly and continuously, rather than falling back on our nature to reinforce our own comfort zones, even when those zones appear to confirm biblical truth. Are we winning souls for Christ by insulating ourselves from sinners? And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
The Church must be alert and discerning. Jesus warned us 4 times in Matthew 24, " Do not be deceived or Do not be led astray. ! Paul also warned of the apostasy, a falling away from the truth..
Ok, so this guy adds comment. If you go to the wedding your approving, that's not true. Maybe for him, it's true, he feels that way. The Bible doesn't say that. And we have to be harmless's dogs. And why is a serpent? And we should not major in the minors here. I think this is something the woman or any individual Christian needs to take up with the Lord. You can be a witness for the Lord anywhere you go if you are in the Holy Spirit and you're a light. I'm not encouraging people to attend gay weddings. I'm simply saying it needs to be brought up in prayer. We can love these people without Alienating them, The fruit of the spirit is love! Don't let your love become legalistic. Or discernment! Let the Holy Spirit be the Holy Spirit. We as visuals make a terrible Holy Spirit.
@@danielwolf2163 To attend the wedding is to functionally approve of it. A person is not forced to attend something that God does not approve of, and to make the choice to be present at the celebration of something wicked is to functionally show approval. The logic that says one must attend or else the one acting sinfully will perceive judgmentalism is basically saying that a sinning person's thoughts are the authority over a Christian's actions instead of the will of God. The same logic would also have to defend going with someone to have an abortion, steal something, or commit adultery so that the one doing so doesn't feel judged. I'd encourage you to take a close look at the words of Psalm 1. Hating what is evil and clinging to what is good is not legalism, and speaking against serious error is not alienating someone. The one doing wrong is alienating himself from the truth.
the "hedge" you speak of can be very toxic consider.... this quote "When you die, God isn't going to ask you about someone else. He won't ask you about the two men down the street who got married. He won't ask you about the girl who had an abortion. He won't ask you about the atheist that lives on the corner. He won't ask you about the woman who feels more comfortable as a man. He will ask you how you loved those people as He called you to do. And some of you didn't" Mr Begg was giving the Gma permission to show love not judge those outside the church.
Thank you Michael. Piper’s points were encouraging to hear and, they were clear & biblically accurate. Always encouraging to hear a voice of Discernment. The Elders of Parkside Church need to exercise Discernment and hold Alistair accountable.
We shouldn’t be giving gifts and expecting this behaviour. When we start being a part of sin is not appropriate in any fashion. We as Christian don’t in anyway support same sex marriage because God is very clear it’s sin final. !
I am so GLAD to see this video!!! I just learned of Alistair's opinion on this matter and I am very sad. Thanks for letting me hear John Piper's opinion which beautifully expresses what I think God liked!!! I am praying for Alistair. King David had to apologize for his actions, I hope Alistair will also. To be so close to the rapture and...
Thank you for showing the difficult response we must make as Christians. I never looked at it as confirming a sin that grieves God. It was such a fine line in my mind until I listened to all the comments.
I agree with Alistair!! But for the grace of God. We assume we can force people to think differently. We cannot. We can, though, love them into the Kingdom. You guys are out of line .
Why might a Christian refuse to attend, cater, or participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony? For simplicity's sake, let's assume this is a discussion among traditional Christians who believe-as the church has always believed and as most of the global church still believes-that same-sex behavior is sinful and that marriage is a covenantal, conjugal union of a man and a woman. With that clarifying comment, we can address the question head-on: Why would a Christian feel conscience bound not to attend or participate in a gay wedding? It's not because of bigotry or fear or because we are unaware that Jesus spent time with sinners that leads us to this conclusion. It's because of our desire to be obedient to Christ and because of the nature of the wedding event itself. A wedding ceremony, in the Christian tradition, is first of all a worship service. So if the union being celebrated in the service cannot be biblically sanctioned as an act of worship, we believe the service lends credence to a lie. We cannot in good conscience participate in a service of false worship. I understand that does not sound very nice, but the conclusion follows from the premise, namely, that the "marriage" being celebrated is not in fact a marriage and should not be celebrated. Moreover, there has long been an understanding that those present at a marriage ceremony are not just casual observers, but they are witnesses who are granting their approval and support for the vows that are to be made. That's why the traditional language speaks of gathering "here in the sight of God, and in the face of this congregation." That's why one of the sample marriage services in the Presbyterian Church in America still has the minister say: If any man can show just cause why they may not lawfully be wedded, let him now declare it, or else hereafter forever hold his peace. Quite explicitly, the wedding is not a party for friends and family. It's not a mere ceremonial formality. It is a divine event in which those gathered celebrate and honor the "solemnization of matrimony." Which is why-as much as I might want to build bridges with a lesbian friend or reassure a gay family member that I care for him and want to have a relationship with him-I would not attend a same-sex wedding ceremony. I cannot help with my cake, with my flowers, or with my presence to solemnize what is not holy. In taking such a position, I've often heard things like this in response: But Jesus hung out with sinners. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. He would say to us, "If someone forces you to bake one cake, bake for him two." Okay, let's think through these objections. I mean actually think for a few sentences, and not just with slogans and vague sentimentality. Jesus hung out with sinners. True, sort of (depends on what you mean by "hung out"). But Jesus believed marriage was between a man and a woman (Matt. 19:3-9). The example of Christ in the Gospels teaches us that we should not be afraid to spend time with sinners. If a gay couple next door invites you over for dinner, don't turn them down. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. That's not the concern here. This isn't about cooties or sin germs. We have plenty of those ourselves. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. But Jesus did so all the time. He acted in ways that could be unintentionally, and more often deliberately, antagonistic (Matt. 7:6, 13-27; 11:20-24; 13:10-17; 19:16-30). Jesus turned people off all the time. This is no excuse for us to be unthinking and unkind. But it should put to rest the unbiblical notion that says if someone feels hurt by your words or unloved by your actions that you were ipso facto sinfully and foolishly unloving. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. Amen. Let's keep preaching Christ and preach as He did, calling all people to "repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15). If someone forces to you bake one cake, bake for him two. This is, of course, a true and beautiful principle about how Christians, when reviled, must not revile in return. But it hardly can mean that we do whatever people demand no matter our rights (Acts 4:18-20; 16:35-40; 22:22-29) and no matter what is right in God's eyes. A wedding is not a dinner invitation or a graduation open house or retirement party. Even in a completely secular environment, there is still a sense-and sometimes the wedding invitations say as much-that our presence at the event would honor the couple and their marriage. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to attend a wedding (let alone cater it or provide the culinary centerpiece) without your presence communicating celebration and support for what is taking place. And, as painful as it may be for us and for those we love, celebrating and supporting homosexual unions is not something God or His Word will allow us to do.
I agree with you that a wedding ceremony represents a sacred space. Nevertheless, my attendance to wedding ceremonies does not make me a greater sinner. I wouldn’t go to because I accept the union as a valid representation of love but rather to say I understand. I understand the desire to legitimize something that like Eve, “seems” so right. I understand the the harshness of loneliness, and I sympathize with the struggle to normalize what can never, ever be holy. We Christians can easily forget what lostness feels like. If I go to a transgender gathering, or a bar, or meet with an orthodox priest who has lost his way, I go to offer a way to the One who loved me into His love and way of loving. He did not shame me or disdain me into His love. My disdain and shame were my own. He entered into my confusion and set me free by His amazing kindness.
Begg's response to the approach by the grandmother is weak-kneed , unhelpful and sends an uncertain message to us all. He should have been strong ,Bible-based , clear and certain. He asked her the wrong questions and failed to guide her according to the Scriptures. He has abdicated in his responsibility to be a true shepherd of God's people
And one more comment regarding one of the panel member's illustration of the adulterous "best friend" ... if Alistair were to take this example to the worst degree possible (incest, etc.), we KNOW he wouldn't attend such a "celebration." Come on, Alistair, don't let your wonderful legacy be eternally ruined by this compassionate, well-meaning but WRONG statement!
Unfortunately, Alister Begg missed not only the mark, he missed the whole target. By using Luke 15, Alister seems to have missed the entire point of the message especially concerning the story of the Prodigal Son. Yes, his father let him go, but the father did not follow his son in approving of his son's lifestyle. It was not until the son came home broken that a celebration took place. The advice Alister should have given: “Grandmother, pray that your grandson will repent. You should not attend a ceremony where it becomes a mockery of what God has ordained as holy. That does not mean you stop loving your grandson; you should pray daily for his repentance and pray that God's mercy would turn his harden heart to the truth.” The passage that Alister used is a gross misrepresentation of what Jesus was teaching to his disciples and the Pharisees. Nowhere in the text do you find Jesus approving of the sinful lifestyle of the Tax Collectors and sinners. Nowhere do you find Jesus profaning anything that was holy; if he did, then he would not be a holy God. The sinners were coming to him, not the other way around! Alister seems to have missed this point. Sad day for Biblical Truth, but it will not diminish the truth of God's written word or its authority.
I agree 100 percent with Mr. Begg. I've been listening to his message for over 10yrs, and this is consistent with the teaching of the God's love for all of us through Jesus. Broadcasts like this continue to amplify the fact that Christians are extremely blind and violent, no matter if it's a sinner or Saint. It's time to wake up and understand Jesus's passion.
Allistair Begg’s response was totally Christian. The grandma was not unaware of her grandson’s lifestyle but still lived her grandson. So yes, go to the wedding, bring a gift, perhaps a bible, continue to let him know it is unbiblicle, and continue to LOVE him. Allistair was on target.
Why might a Christian refuse to attend, cater, or participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony? For simplicity's sake, let's assume this is a discussion among traditional Christians who believe-as the church has always believed and as most of the global church still believes-that same-sex behavior is sinful and that marriage is a covenantal, conjugal union of a man and a woman. With that clarifying comment, we can address the question head-on: Why would a Christian feel conscience bound not to attend or participate in a gay wedding? It's not because of bigotry or fear or because we are unaware that Jesus spent time with sinners that leads us to this conclusion. It's because of our desire to be obedient to Christ and because of the nature of the wedding event itself. A wedding ceremony, in the Christian tradition, is first of all a worship service. So if the union being celebrated in the service cannot be biblically sanctioned as an act of worship, we believe the service lends credence to a lie. We cannot in good conscience participate in a service of false worship. I understand that does not sound very nice, but the conclusion follows from the premise, namely, that the "marriage" being celebrated is not in fact a marriage and should not be celebrated. Moreover, there has long been an understanding that those present at a marriage ceremony are not just casual observers, but they are witnesses who are granting their approval and support for the vows that are to be made. That's why the traditional language speaks of gathering "here in the sight of God, and in the face of this congregation." That's why one of the sample marriage services in the Presbyterian Church in America still has the minister say: If any man can show just cause why they may not lawfully be wedded, let him now declare it, or else hereafter forever hold his peace. Quite explicitly, the wedding is not a party for friends and family. It's not a mere ceremonial formality. It is a divine event in which those gathered celebrate and honor the "solemnization of matrimony." Which is why-as much as I might want to build bridges with a lesbian friend or reassure a gay family member that I care for him and want to have a relationship with him-I would not attend a same-sex wedding ceremony. I cannot help with my cake, with my flowers, or with my presence to solemnize what is not holy. In taking such a position, I've often heard things like this in response: But Jesus hung out with sinners. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. He would say to us, "If someone forces you to bake one cake, bake for him two." Okay, let's think through these objections. I mean actually think for a few sentences, and not just with slogans and vague sentimentality. Jesus hung out with sinners. True, sort of (depends on what you mean by "hung out"). But Jesus believed marriage was between a man and a woman (Matt. 19:3-9). The example of Christ in the Gospels teaches us that we should not be afraid to spend time with sinners. If a gay couple next door invites you over for dinner, don't turn them down. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. That's not the concern here. This isn't about cooties or sin germs. We have plenty of those ourselves. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. But Jesus did so all the time. He acted in ways that could be unintentionally, and more often deliberately, antagonistic (Matt. 7:6, 13-27; 11:20-24; 13:10-17; 19:16-30). Jesus turned people off all the time. This is no excuse for us to be unthinking and unkind. But it should put to rest the unbiblical notion that says if someone feels hurt by your words or unloved by your actions that you were ipso facto sinfully and foolishly unloving. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. Amen. Let's keep preaching Christ and preach as He did, calling all people to "repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15). If someone forces to you bake one cake, bake for him two. This is, of course, a true and beautiful principle about how Christians, when reviled, must not revile in return. But it hardly can mean that we do whatever people demand no matter our rights (Acts 4:18-20; 16:35-40; 22:22-29) and no matter what is right in God's eyes. A wedding is not a dinner invitation or a graduation open house or retirement party. Even in a completely secular environment, there is still a sense-and sometimes the wedding invitations say as much-that our presence at the event would honor the couple and their marriage. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to attend a wedding (let alone cater it or provide the culinary centerpiece) without your presence communicating celebration and support for what is taking place. And, as painful as it may be for us and for those we love, celebrating and supporting homosexual unions is not something God or His Word will allow us to do.
I did not understand Begg’s advice to the individual as a blanket endorsement of attending all such unions, but rather, a response to her specific situation.
Thanks for your video and the clips. I'm shocked to just hear about this from Pastor Begg. It has given a great opportunity for the Christian community to hear from those in rebuttal give their correction. Begg isn't taking into consideration the grandson's grief imposed upon his grandmother's conviction.
Thank you Michael. I have been waiting to hear more about this preacher's overstep outside of biblical advice to a seeking believer. Wedding 101: Those who attend weddings are doing so to affirm and approve and celebrate the union of the couple. If you cannot do those three things, then please do not attend. Your presence is unwelcome at their celebration. Well said Piper for walking in the truth in love.
I have always considered attending a wedding was as being a witness to it. Traditional wedding ceremonies sometimes has the officiant remind the bride and groom that the vows they make are “ before God and these witnesses”. I could not in good conscience attend a same sex wedding ceremony. It grieves me to hear of Pastor Begg giving this council. It also grieves me to see more added divisions in the body of Christ among faithful gospel preachers and brethren.
Only God knows what was/is in alistair's heart concerning the issue. Yes, his council to the grandmother was far from biblical Fidelity. I have benefited immensely from both Piper and begg on my journey through the narrow way, and would only submit that we not condemn Alistair for his seemingly fleshly answer, but pray for him in his continued advancement of the body of Christ. We should remember that until the adoption is complete, we all will, and have fallen short probably every day in our walk. While I do condemn his council on the matter with the grandmother, I will petition God for mercy and repentance for this brother and pastor. And not to miss the log in my own eye, I continue to ask for mercy and repentance for myself.
Congratulations to A. Begg for standing firm on his position. I support his position and believe it has biblical justification. I have watched hours of TH-camrs attacking him and his views, along with they supporters, and have found the Christian community's response pretty much terribly un-Christian and vitriolic. What should have been a better response is this: Begg is a respected pastor, so lets reserve judgment and use this as an opportunity for believers to dialogue with him on this very challenging, ethically charged matter in order to gain a better understanding of why he takes the position he articulated, and get his response to objections. Instead, Christians have done nothing but exercise foolish name calling and labeling (demonic, compromiser, coward, to name a few). Unfortunately, the Christian community at large is quiet often its own worst enemy.
I agree, with part of your comments. That is why I said in this video I was not calling him a faith denier or a heretic, rather he is clearly wrong with his advice, and that is based on Romans 1:32…
Thank you for your response. I was asked by someone who disliked my support for Begg the question, Would Jesus go to a gay wedding?" I responded as follows: To answer that question one would need to go back to Jesus' ministry and examine his actions at that time in order to create a bridge from his world to ours, and from there make application to our own contemporary challenges. Unfortunately, what I have seen from Begg's critics is a failure to even attempt such a task. I see absolutely no biblical warrant for claiming Begg's advice is wrong. I base that on Luke 15:1-3 as one of several Scriptural situations involving Jesus and his critics. You suggest Begg's advice to the grandmother and Jesus' going to dinner or a party are not the same. I beg to differ and believe your position creates a false dichotomy. They are definitely the same in principle. In Jesus' world, eating with sinners and tax collectors, considered notorious sinners at that, had serious social ramifications. To eat with these people not only meant he was their friend, but would be construed as condoning their behavior. This was what it meant in that culture to have what would be interpreted as table fellowship. In volume 2 of Darrell Bock's commentary on Luke 15:1-3 he writes: "Eating with sinners and tax collectors is particularly galling, for table fellowship with such people suggests a level of acceptance that is distasteful to the leaders....He is interested in befriending such undesirables, regardless of what others may think. His rationale is simple: he wishes to draw them to God." (Bock, 2:1298-99). I don't expect you to agree with my position, and that is fine. In light of what many have voiced, such as immediate calls for repentance, recanting, charges of cowardice, demonic teaching, compromiser, there would be a call to Begg to join people in a civil discourse on this issue. I think what Begg has done, possibly without knowing it, is he has forced all of us to think about our positions on this issue and, in a more sober-minded manner, be willing to seek to understand and examine the Scriptures more thoroughly, as well as engage in better ethical thinking than what has been displayed by so many leveling heavy criticism. We can all agree that homosexuality, lesbianism, transgenderism, and the LGBTQ movement all constitute sin, but how we deal with these people enslaved in darkness is another matter necessitating greater discussion.
Thanks for the comment. My only reservation with using Romans 1:32 is this: Paul is saying that those who give hearty approval of such practices incur condemnation. I don't see that Begg's advice, or the grandmother's attending (if she did so) is giving hearty approval to the grandson's lifestyle or the wedding itself any more than Jesus eating with sinners and tax collectors gives hearty approval of their behavior. In Jesus' case, he was criticized based on perceptions of his actions, and the same would be the case regarding the grandmother if she took his advice. What I believe Begg has done is open the door for a more robust discussion of this situation, enlisting good theological, ethical, and biblical investigation in order to better grasp how to navigate through these issues. Two good resources dealing with Luke 15:1-3 and the question of eating meals in the NT era are Darrell Bock's two-volume exegetical commentary on Luke, and Tim Chester's book, A Meal With Jesus. Again, thanks for your comment, @@ChroniclesOfClarity
Why might a Christian refuse to attend, cater, or participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony? For simplicity's sake, let's assume this is a discussion among traditional Christians who believe-as the church has always believed and as most of the global church still believes-that same-sex behavior is sinful and that marriage is a covenantal, conjugal union of a man and a woman. With that clarifying comment, we can address the question head-on: Why would a Christian feel conscience bound not to attend or participate in a gay wedding? It's not because of bigotry or fear or because we are unaware that Jesus spent time with sinners that leads us to this conclusion. It's because of our desire to be obedient to Christ and because of the nature of the wedding event itself. A wedding ceremony, in the Christian tradition, is first of all a worship service. So if the union being celebrated in the service cannot be biblically sanctioned as an act of worship, we believe the service lends credence to a lie. We cannot in good conscience participate in a service of false worship. I understand that does not sound very nice, but the conclusion follows from the premise, namely, that the "marriage" being celebrated is not in fact a marriage and should not be celebrated. Moreover, there has long been an understanding that those present at a marriage ceremony are not just casual observers, but they are witnesses who are granting their approval and support for the vows that are to be made. That's why the traditional language speaks of gathering "here in the sight of God, and in the face of this congregation." That's why one of the sample marriage services in the Presbyterian Church in America still has the minister say: If any man can show just cause why they may not lawfully be wedded, let him now declare it, or else hereafter forever hold his peace. Quite explicitly, the wedding is not a party for friends and family. It's not a mere ceremonial formality. It is a divine event in which those gathered celebrate and honor the "solemnization of matrimony." Which is why-as much as I might want to build bridges with a lesbian friend or reassure a gay family member that I care for him and want to have a relationship with him-I would not attend a same-sex wedding ceremony. I cannot help with my cake, with my flowers, or with my presence to solemnize what is not holy. In taking such a position, I've often heard things like this in response: But Jesus hung out with sinners. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. He would say to us, "If someone forces you to bake one cake, bake for him two." Okay, let's think through these objections. I mean actually think for a few sentences, and not just with slogans and vague sentimentality. Jesus hung out with sinners. True, sort of (depends on what you mean by "hung out"). But Jesus believed marriage was between a man and a woman (Matt. 19:3-9). The example of Christ in the Gospels teaches us that we should not be afraid to spend time with sinners. If a gay couple next door invites you over for dinner, don't turn them down. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. That's not the concern here. This isn't about cooties or sin germs. We have plenty of those ourselves. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. But Jesus did so all the time. He acted in ways that could be unintentionally, and more often deliberately, antagonistic (Matt. 7:6, 13-27; 11:20-24; 13:10-17; 19:16-30). Jesus turned people off all the time. This is no excuse for us to be unthinking and unkind. But it should put to rest the unbiblical notion that says if someone feels hurt by your words or unloved by your actions that you were ipso facto sinfully and foolishly unloving. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. Amen. Let's keep preaching Christ and preach as He did, calling all people to "repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15). If someone forces to you bake one cake, bake for him two. This is, of course, a true and beautiful principle about how Christians, when reviled, must not revile in return. But it hardly can mean that we do whatever people demand no matter our rights (Acts 4:18-20; 16:35-40; 22:22-29) and no matter what is right in God's eyes. A wedding is not a dinner invitation or a graduation open house or retirement party. Even in a completely secular environment, there is still a sense-and sometimes the wedding invitations say as much-that our presence at the event would honor the couple and their marriage. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to attend a wedding (let alone cater it or provide the culinary centerpiece) without your presence communicating celebration and support for what is taking place. And, as painful as it may be for us and for those we love, celebrating and supporting homosexual unions is not something God or His Word will allow us to do.
You are the first channel that played these two comments by two well known and respected pastors, side by side. It was an important thing to do because it gave such clarity and voice to why attending a gay marriage is sin. Thank you for this very important video.
Thank you!!! It is encouraging to hear that this was helpful in Biblical wisdom. I appreciate you stopping by and contributing!
I've seen the side by side with Begg's comments and the AFR confirmation of a non-recanting on another channel.
What is disappointing again? Please
Let us continue loving our precious brother in Christ. Others were shocked about Jesus talking to the Samaritan woman, weren't they? But Jesus told her about the water He would give her after which she would never thirst again.
Alistair Begg never turned his back on Jesus Christ!
Let us ask ourselves this simple question: WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?
Amen. She should have gone to the wedding. Alistair gave the correct advice.
Again W W J D.
I went through this with my sister-in-law, who "married" a woman. I didn't go and refuse to apologize about my decision.
I am sure that was difficult 😞- Thanks for sharing and may the Lord use your commitment to Him, to share the Gospel with your SIL
Well done. Why should you apologize.
Hopefully you let them know in love why you made that decision.
Thank you Pastor John Piper for preaching truth!
@humbertothebeliever2443 I was NEVER mean spirited. A number of things happened in the intervening time between their ceremony and now. I called my sister-in-law to repentance. I explained to her that she and her lesbian partner are walking in darkness.
She is estranged from her family. She wants our hardy approval and celebration of sodomy. Simply being tolerant is not good enough.
Alistair Begg is still a torch illuminating the Gospel. He is a man that struggles prayerfully with decisions, as we all do, in each individual case he has to face.I am so thankful for his ministry on the TV. Even if I may not have made the same choices as he made in this particular situation. I was there in Keswick when he spoke on this particular subject. He was quite clear about his stance . He will not condone same sex marriage. Hundreds of people heard him, and heard also him saying "They are not our enemies" .The whole Tent gave him an unusual applaud. We usually don't clap ministers after they speak. Everyone was relieved that he addressed this topic, as many people have to struggle with it.
Rather Aistair Beggs ministry any day, then people who without knowing it have become only judgemental and forgotten how Jesus got down with sinners, after all that's what we all are.
I agree his ministry has been impeccable. This topic is one in which we disagree. Thanks for stopping by Kathy!
His approach is the one of Jesus, coming not to condemn but to save.
The other comments made in this clip... Wow. No wonder people hate Christians! And the lack of true theology of the bunch of men - astounding.
But why is EVERYONE disregarding the qualification AB gave at the beginning of that response: which is "Does your grandson understand your stance as a Christian and that you do not approve about the union"???
That to me is what everyone seems to be missing.
I agree. The grandson knew that they did not condone this ritual. A marriage is between a man and a woman and God doesn’t see this as a marriage.
The grandparents are throwing out a lifeline because this is totally reversible. Now if they were driving a grandchild to an abortion clinic that’s irreversible, it cannot be undone. How many marriages end in divorce? 50% or more. These grandparents want to how show their love. Ere on the side of love rather than condemnation.
I heard what AB said and prefaced his advice to the lady with. I still disagree, based on scripture we are to not condone sin in any form. I have a niece who proclaims to be homosexual. I told her that I love her dearly but would not condone or support her choice. She is precious to me and I pray for her daily to be convicted. If I said nothing and went along to just get along in the hopes of showing her I love her, how could I justify telling her she is wrong in her choice if I participate? I will also stand before God and give an account of my actions, words and thoughts. The blood of Jesus is too precious to me to compromise, not to mention their soul.
@@jograham2645 To your point about not condone sin in any form, would you attend a wedding between a man and a woman if you knew that they had sexual relationship before marriage?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone
Exactly! Piper and others are at times come accross as being so self-righteous. Christ came to sinners, and lived with us!
This topic hits home. I attended an engagement party for 2 men, one of which was a nephew. I informed my family, wife and kids, that they would not be allowed to go. My mother and the entire family (not my kids and wife) saw myself as hateful. I asked my mom, where’s the party for all the rest of our sins, the adultery, the drugs, the alcohol, the lying, etc; They said that’s different. I went to the event and told everyone there I loved them but do not support this event. That was not good enough in their eyes. Let us not forget at weddings you are there affirming the sacrament. You are told to speak now or forever hold your peace because this is what God has joined. I’ve spent 50 years with my family for thanksgiving. This year was the first time I was not invited.
So sorry to hear 😔- I can’t imagine what you are going through. I will pray for you and sincerely mean that. And, remember the words of Christ, “Rejoice when you are persecuted for His name for great will be your reward!” Thanks for sharing
So I admire and respect both of these pastors. I think Piper’s response is spot on Biblically, but I think Begg’s approach is coming from more of a practical, “long game” perspective. And it’s important to note that Begg IS saying that gay “marriage” isn’t a real thing and that practicing homosexuality is a sin.
If I refused to go to the wedding, I would be concerned that it would effectively be ending the relationship with my family member and ending any chance I had of speaking into their life in the future. If I go, and preserve the relationship, that doesn’t happen. When the “marriage” has problems - and it will, as 70% of these relationships quickly end - then I would be there to lovingly help the person to see their sin and point them back to God. If I blow up the relationship, those two people are going to get “married” anyway. Saying “they’re the ones ending the relationship,” may be technically true and make me feel better, but what is my ultimate goal here? Am I trying to win a soul or win an argument?
@@venerablebede50 condoning sin and celebrating sin is no way to "win a soul."
It's better to go down many roads with Jesus that have pot holes than to go down a smooth road with Satan! You know what's at the end of each road!!
@@venerablebede50You can’t serve two masters. To follow Christ, you must be willing to lose some relationships.
Luke 14:26-27
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
My heart breaks because I have a family member that married in a same-gender relationship. I say that it's tough, because I have real love for the person. After prayer, we decided to love the person though not "approve" of the "act" of marriage, which is not defined. Now, more than a half decade has elapsed and children are involved. We are so joyful, and we thank God continuously. We do condemn that worldly process... but condemning the people would have irreparable consequences. I do not sense the Lord telling me to hate them, but to, even now, love them. And, we do. And we praise God for every remembrance of them... yet still not approving. When we have meals together, we pray... and we are genuine in doing so. When we write, we bring the Lord into our communication. I'm not confused. I simply do not hate them... and I don't do hateful and unkind acts (or attitudes) toward them... and I seek the Lord's "help" in this, even knowing what Scriptures teach. Unless the Lord tells me, I will love them (as agape as my spirit and will can muster with His help) until the Lord calls me home or the Lord hits me on the head with a 2-by-4. May God be glorified as we move toward His perfection!
Hard fact is ,not very many of us truly grasp the whole counsel of God written in the Scripture;we tend to listen to people we assumed spiritual and mature.Let’s search the scriptures and let God speak to us.❤
I would share with the grandchild my disagreement and how his decision breaks my heart and God’s heart, but I would attend, letting him know that I can’t be happy for him.
Alistair Begg gave very specific advice to a specific person in a very specific circumstance. He made it very clear that the event was against the will of God and the grandmother had made it very clear to her loved one her position as a Christian. This grandson is living the life of an unbeliever and as such is living as an unrepentant sinner in need of redemption and needs the loving guidance of a grandmother's witness as she lives a godly life for him to see. Godly witness is loving witness not alienation through condemnation. This is a fallen world we live in already condemned by God save for the godly love of people who love God and neighbor. As that event was progressing that grandson's heart may have been stirred by the presence of his grandmother knowing her disapproval yet lovingly there. Who among us does not have loved ones living lives apart from God that we pray for continually desiring their redemption. Getting people to change their behavior doesn't save them from God's judgement and His wrath. It's not the gospel message.
Abraham 50 40 30 20 10 the two angels did not go to a wedding and they sure did not take a gift
The challenge is that attendance is affirmation. Bringing a gift is affirmation.
We can claim that we can't countenance the relationship. Then we turn around and not only countenance it, but affirm it.
This is blatant hypocrisy. Surely there's a way to love the grandson without requiring hypocrisy.
@@stadler72going is not “affirming the relationship”, it’s “affirming the love” that you have for that child, grandchild, etc. Love leads to change more often than beating someone down over and over with your beliefs.
@@crazeekids9744 you can tell yourself that. But the message everyone's getting loud and clear is that you are affirming the relationship.
Everyone just take a moment and really try to understand what Begg is saying. If the grandson knows the faith and stance of the grandmother then he knows there is love, but also knows there is not approval!
I have thought the same thing since hearing the audio.
This is exactly my point to Begg made it clear and this is an unfair attack !
Why might a Christian refuse to attend, cater, or participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony? For simplicity's sake, let's assume this is a discussion among traditional Christians who believe-as the church has always believed and as most of the global church still believes-that same-sex behavior is sinful and that marriage is a covenantal, conjugal union of a man and a woman.
With that clarifying comment, we can address the question head-on: Why would a Christian feel conscience bound not to attend or participate in a gay wedding? It's not because of bigotry or fear or because we are unaware that Jesus spent time with sinners that leads us to this conclusion. It's because of our desire to be obedient to Christ and because of the nature of the wedding event itself.
A wedding ceremony, in the Christian tradition, is first of all a worship service. So if the union being celebrated in the service cannot be biblically sanctioned as an act of worship, we believe the service lends credence to a lie. We cannot in good conscience participate in a service of false worship. I understand that does not sound very nice, but the conclusion follows from the premise, namely, that the "marriage" being celebrated is not in fact a marriage and should not be celebrated.
Moreover, there has long been an understanding that those present at a marriage ceremony are not just casual observers, but they are witnesses who are granting their approval and support for the vows that are to be made. That's why the traditional language speaks of gathering "here in the sight of God, and in the face of this congregation." That's why one of the sample marriage services in the Presbyterian Church in America still has the minister say:
If any man can show just cause why they may not lawfully be wedded, let him now declare it, or else hereafter forever hold his peace.
Quite explicitly, the wedding is not a party for friends and family. It's not a mere ceremonial formality. It is a divine event in which those gathered celebrate and honor the "solemnization of matrimony."
Which is why-as much as I might want to build bridges with a lesbian friend or reassure a gay family member that I care for him and want to have a relationship with him-I would not attend a same-sex wedding ceremony. I cannot help with my cake, with my flowers, or with my presence to solemnize what is not holy.
In taking such a position, I've often heard things like this in response:
But Jesus hung out with sinners. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. He would say to us, "If someone forces you to bake one cake, bake for him two."
Okay, let's think through these objections. I mean actually think for a few sentences, and not just with slogans and vague sentimentality.
Jesus hung out with sinners. True, sort of (depends on what you mean by "hung out"). But Jesus believed marriage was between a man and a woman (Matt. 19:3-9). The example of Christ in the Gospels teaches us that we should not be afraid to spend time with sinners. If a gay couple next door invites you over for dinner, don't turn them down.
He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. That's not the concern here. This isn't about cooties or sin germs. We have plenty of those ourselves.
He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. But Jesus did so all the time. He acted in ways that could be unintentionally, and more often deliberately, antagonistic (Matt. 7:6, 13-27; 11:20-24; 13:10-17; 19:16-30). Jesus turned people off all the time. This is no excuse for us to be unthinking and unkind. But it should put to rest the unbiblical notion that says if someone feels hurt by your words or unloved by your actions that you were ipso facto sinfully and foolishly unloving.
He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. Amen. Let's keep preaching Christ and preach as He did, calling all people to "repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).
If someone forces to you bake one cake, bake for him two. This is, of course, a true and beautiful principle about how Christians, when reviled, must not revile in return. But it hardly can mean that we do whatever people demand no matter our rights (Acts 4:18-20; 16:35-40; 22:22-29) and no matter what is right in God's eyes.
A wedding is not a dinner invitation or a graduation open house or retirement party. Even in a completely secular environment, there is still a sense-and sometimes the wedding invitations say as much-that our presence at the event would honor the couple and their marriage. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to attend a wedding (let alone cater it or provide the culinary centerpiece) without your presence communicating celebration and support for what is taking place. And, as painful as it may be for us and for those we love, celebrating and supporting homosexual unions is not something God or His Word will allow us to do.
Actions speak louder than words. Her very presence will say that she accepts his choice.
Although he has been a beacon of truth…Pastor Begg is way off on this. We are so much more concerned with being accepted, and loved, and “non-judgmental” than we are with being holy. And that is a grave disease that is infiltrating the church.
@@paulwells4372 Very well explained! 👏👏
I would also not attend the wedding, but would you have the same response if the couple had gotten divorced outside of God's guidelines some years earlier and are not currently believers? I just think we have to be careful in separating this situation from other sins involving adultery in a past life. Many of my relatives are re-married and I didn't refuse to go to the wedding because of it. Alistair is not perfect so I think making a blanket rejection of his ministry is not the thing to do.
AB gave a nuanced advice. He said that in a different context he would advise differently.
So why is AB treated as if he endorses same sex marriage?
The Bible is clear about Homosexuality
Alistair says, "does your grandson know that you can't countenance him in any affirming way" and then tells her to go to the wedding. The fact that you attend is countenancing in an affirming way!
Spot on analysis Cameron~
EXACTLY
You cannot say how the grandmother's attendance at the event will be perceived by her grandson and by the others, when you don't even know the people involved.
I don't think Pastor Begg is not supporting the lifestyle,but rather he is encouraging the grandmother to show her love,not asking to condone the grandchild's lifestyle. He is telling her she is not to judge,but to love.
Matthew 10, 10:34-39 specifically, the sword Jesus brought wasn't to champion the queer lobby in America. The Angel of the Lord didn't incarnate to help the bigots get woke and gay it up like the pederast hellenized Jews either. 🤦♂️
God is love and God can never be near sin
God is our guide, Holy and Sovereign 💯🔥
You're defeating your own argument, because that is exactly what Begg was telling her to do. Attending the union means she is giving her approval to the lifestyle.
Piper nailed it! Keep praying for Alistair Begg, he’s a sinner like everyone else. We want him back right with God and thinking correctly. We all have to examine our selves to see if we are lining up with Gods Word. Right?❤️
Piper does lecto vina…..
Yes, indeed!
Such arrogance…
In Christ's letter to the 7 churches through the apostle John, the church at Ephesus was commended for their dedication to doctrine, but they got "off-balance" and forgot their first love, loving God and Christ with all their heart, soul, mind and strength, and loving others as themselves. I see in the Evangelical church in America at times, the reverse of this, at times we sacrifice doctrine on the altar of love and we can end up, if not careful, affirming sin. It really is a hard balance to walk, and the only guide we have is sacred scripture. No matter which side of this event we take, let's not persecute Alistair Begg, but only turn to scripture as our guide of what we should do in all scenarios.
Pastor Begg gave advice to a grandmother not all people. It had to do with their relationship . Her grandson knew she did not agree with it. Pastor Begg agrees that homosexuality is wrong .
How many have knowingly attended the wedding of those:
-who were fornicators (sex before marriage)?
-who were previously married and divorced?
-who were adulterers?
-who were liars/slanderers?
-who were thieves?
-who were idolators?
And what shall we say then?
We must fully abide in the Holy Spirit and stand faithful in the truth of the Word of our Lord and we must be careful in not being quick to condemn and accuse according to the cultural evils of the day.
May the Lord give all who seek by His Spirit His wisdom and grace- May He lead us in truth on this narrow path in righteousness and humility.
Exactly... And many people getting married are not believers so they have no knowledge of God and His enabling grace to overcome.
5:52 I love your response. Cast the first stone, you could have included gluttons and slothful people. As a counselor and pastor I feel it my responsibility to assess all sides, and give the person the right to make their own choice. Going to that wedding may simply be a response of “I love you” not necessarily that I endorse your life style. We cannot alienate the generation in which almost 30 percent declare LGBTQ identity.
What is our true calling? Where have we failed our culture? This is a call for the church to meet culture with truth and respect. I liked AB’s balance - “if you don’t go, they may feel you don’t love them and are judging and alienating them.”
How to live in a cultural dive - that is a big question.
Thank you for your comment. I am looking at my sun and.....
Marriage represents Jesus relationship with us (and God's with Israel-she was His wife). We are His bride, He is the groom. Every wedding I have attended has included everyone on your list (including myself) however, all those weddings had a bride and a groom, a gay or trans wedding does not.
@@amymusick5455 and there's the bigotry shining through, the stumbling block to those who don't know God
As christians are we to show the world what we can and cannot do(Law)?Or do we show them grace(Love)? We forget this is how God dealt with us. While we were dead in sin he saved us. Homosexuals are dead in sin. You going or not going doesn’t change them. But you going and Loving them despite how you feel about the relationship opens up doors for gospel conversations. Which is what AB was saying. Have we forgotten the heart of the Gospel? Loving a fallen and broken world? Love is not just saying truth and standing by it with your chest out. Love is doing difficult things like showing up to a homosexual wedding with tears in your eyes because you oppose the marriage and giving them the Word of God as a gift. Which is what our faith is A GIFT!!! Im grateful AB gave that advice and he even stated he wouldn’t do it in every situation. I can say I agree with AB because my son got married to another man almost a year ago. I told him where I stood and dont agree . And when they said their vows we stepped out of the room. At the end he told us thank you for loving me even tho you dont agree with me. This is what God did with us. He loved us while we were rebellious. And if anyone says what we can and cannot do as a response is missing the point of what we are allowed to do which is Love. Love requires action not just words
Little children, let’s not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 1 John 3:18
Those that are judging Allistair Begg so passionately must be careful because they might actually be instruments in the hands of the evil one that knows that LGBTQ issues are such emotive subjects that he now uses your harsh judgement of Allistair Begg to draw a line through the powerful messages he brought the world for many years. AB has made it very clear that he honours the Biblical view on LGBTQ but while he despises the sin he does not advise a grandmother to despise the sinner! Is that not exactly what Jesus taught us when advising those without sin to cast the first stone. And if Jesus did not want to associate with sinners would he have attended the Last Supper knowing that Judas was there? Thank you Allistair Begg for practising what you have been preaching over many decades THE LOVE OF GOD!
Exactly!
What is happening to our church? More and more pastors are being exposed for things that are just so alarming! God help us. Thank you for this video.
Yes, we must be vigilant… You are welcome, thanks for stopping by
It's going to get worse in these last days.
Singer Amy Grant conducted a homosexual "wedding" for her lesbian niece. Many are falling away ... deceived people don't know they're deceived, because they're deceived.
"At that time many will turn away from the faith..." (Matthew 24:10) "Now the Spirit [a]expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons," (1 Timothy 4:1) "Abstain from all appearance of evil." (1 Thessalonians 5:22)
Many of these pastors have forgotten that the Church is the Bride of Christ , redeemed by Him, and not them . They are consumed by their prideful behavior and action.
John Piper gave the correct response ! We do not celebrate sin!
AMEN!!!
I believe that is a historic archive form JP, I have been concerned with more recent comments on issues e.g. easing the consciences of those who wish to vote for the evils of the democrat party (and I am not an American so partisan politics is irrelevant), so a direct response to the issue from JP to AB may still come and that will be very interesting to see, I would hope and pray that he indeed doubles down on these earlier comments, which are the truth for sure...
There is no divorce and remarriage that is condoned by God either, and like the radio man said he would tell his friend to repent and return to his wife. So John Piper is a big hypocrite because he says divorce and remarriage is adultery, but then his own son got divorced and remarried and John Piper WENT TO THE WEDDING!!! He went to an "adultery marriage" and his son is a an associate pastor in a church in his 2nd marriage. This is horrible! Alistair Begg, John MacArthur and most all pastors are corrupted on divorce and remarriage for decades which is the apostasy in the last days. Jesus is coming, and most are going to be left behind.
what is J Mac's position on unbiblical divorce and remarriage?@@WalkingbytheSpiritAlways
@@WalkingbytheSpiritAlways My goodness! Have you met Jesus? With this kind of attitude, you should worry about yourself, man.
A beautiful response by John Piper -Godly in its essence!
💯
There is no divorce and remarriage that is condoned by God either, and like the radio man said he would tell his friend to repent and return to his wife. So John Piper is a big hypocrite because he says divorce and remarriage is adultery, but then his own son got divorced and remarried and John Piper WENT TO THE WEDDING!!! He went to an "adultery marriage" and his son is a an associate pastor in a church in his 2nd marriage. This is horrible! Alistair Begg, John MacArthur and most all pastors are corrupted on divorce and remarriage for decades which is the apostasy in the last days. Jesus is coming, and most are going to be left behind.
Christians should stop expecting non-believers to behave like those with faith in Christ.
Indeed, and to walk along side them without judgement.
I went to a lesbian wedding about 10-ish years ago then I heard a preacher say that is like high-fiving someone on the way to hell. The other conviction I had at that moment realizing I cannot sit there and lovingly approve of someone else's sinful lifestyle became incredibly real
🙏
It's not to late to go walk that back and preach the Gospel
@@samhazzard3810 I'm not even sure if I could track them down I barely knew one of them and I didn't know the other girl at all and I do not know what last name to look up either. But maybe I should try go to track them down. Thanks
@@laurao8099 you're welcome
Eight months later I am still trying to wrap my brain around Pastor Begg’s advice to the grandmother. And, still trying to understand his doubling down on it. His haughty attitude and negative insinuations against his detractors is as well. It saddens me because I’ve followed him for YEARS.
I think it is a reminder that our modern day hero’s of the faith will, at times, make judgement errors; some more egregious than others. But, that should be expected. AB isn’t Jesus and therefore will make mistakes. I wish it was a different one than this, but I pray he will learn from it.
I appreciate using John Piper to give the correct way that we should view this issue, but putting in your video title 'John Piper response' is a little misleading. It read like JP had responded to AB, which isn't the case.
Hi Josh, it is a play on expectation. I did not say John responded to Alistair, I simply said he had a response. Part of the TH-cam title world and thumbnail approach involves playing with expectations. I think your comment comes from your expectation that John replied directly to Alistair about his comment, but I didnt say he did that, else I would agree with you it would be misleading. Did John Piper respond to the situation that Alistair addressed? Yes. Is John’s view a different view than Alistair’s, thus verses each other? Yes. Did I say John Piper responded to Alistair regarding this comment? No. Again, a play with view expectation. But, my hope is you still found value in the content and see that John does respond, just not in the way you might have first imagined. Thanks for the comment and stopping by!
This was a very important video and I don't think it was clickbait at all. I had heard the John Piper comment before, so I knew of it and feel that finally putting the two comments by two very significant pastors side by side, was noteworthy.
@@madmat990 The issue being discussed is should a Christian attend a same sex wedding not whether the video was correctly titled.
@@impish22 If you would have asked Pastor Begg another day if he would attend a gay wedding, he probably would have had a similar response to Piper's, but the grandmother's situation was a different one that he felt needed a different response.
@@kobusvdw how exactly are you convicting MacArthur of a lack of brotherly love? I've heard his comment on the matter and he made clear he holds Alistair in great affection and values his ministry. In the context of that though he is saddened. I thought MacArthur made a reasoned and wise response and I don't see your issue with it.
Alistair really nailed it on how the life of Christ should flow through us and not be the Pharisee on the sidelines with no love, grace, mercy and compassion all this in which we were once given and were not deserving of. Should a Christian withhold that which they were once given is the question?
I heard this program and was shocked at Pastor Begg's answer. I thought I'd heard him wrong! 😢
What Allistar adviced this grandmother was not a Christian response….we are not to partake in any of the sins of others!!!
Agree 💯
I wonder…Have you ever gone to a movie in which two actors who are each married to other people carried on a romance onscreen? Hugged and kissed? Do you know actors must feel themselves to be completely in character - to be that person - in order to act the role? Have you paid to see them doing that?
How many of you who wouldn’t attend a transgender wedding (which is what the grandmother asked about, not a gay wedding) actually look at porn privately? How many might even look at lesbian porn? How many have had affairs, be they emotional or physical affairs?
And would not attend the wedding of your child because it was wrong?
If anyone is clean of sexual sin, even lust of the heart, he is eligible to miss his transgender child’s wedding.
@@cherwynambuter7873 Making horrendous assumptions of other people????
@@elsiezimmerman4304what? Like your assumption of Begg advising the grandmother to partake of the sins of another?
@@elsiezimmerman4304these church buildings are overflowing with hypocrites. Jesus warned us of this.
With Piper 100%! I have a child professing to be gay , she knows I am a Christian & love her but do not affirm her choices to sin. And she is blatant in her desire to reject the Gospel & GOD. It would not be loving for me to affirm her engagement or attend a lie of a wedding. The church is called to call out sin and bring sanctions for Sin as a loving act to bring the sinner to repentance. I am grieved deeply that Alistair has taken a soft & totally unbiblical stance causing this grandmother to stumble by bad counsel. She was shocked at his answer, I think she knew the right thing was to not go & her heart was tugged by the flesh & in so doing quenched the Spirit of GOD saying NO, you cannot honor GOD and attend an abomination against GOD. Allister can still repent and correct his great error.
You will not change your daughter's mind by boycotting her event. You'll just be estranged possibly for the rest of your life. Either way, it's between her and God.
@JohnJones-qy5ko the point is not to change her mind. The point is to stand for Truth.
Going or not going will not change her mind. Attending simply endorses her sinful choices.
@@JohnJones-qy5kobtw, it may ultimately be between the daughter and God, but the mother is called to be salt and light and participating in a gay wedding is sin for her.
Its just not about the gay daughter.
@falsecraigslist3160 you just gave me one of the most misquoted and misunderstood passages of Scripture that people cite when trying to impose a worldly argument on Christians.
You don't understand the context of that verse or good hermeneutics.
Your interpretation argues that we should never judge sin and that is completely contrary to Scripture.
What do you do with John 7:24?
Or Ephesians 5:11?
The context of Jesus's statement in Matthew 7:3-5 is to not think of yourselves better than others and delude yourself that you are without sin yourself. In fact, it states to recognize and repent of your sins before you go call out the sin and someone else. It doesn't say you never call out the sin in someone else.
But the main point is, as Christ followers, we are not to participate in sin. We are to be Salt and Light.
@falsecraigslist3160 I do not understand your comment about Jesus turning water into wine and a person misnterpreting that as advocating drunkenness, to how that relates to the our discussion? You should develop what you're getting at further because, on the face of it, it's an irrelevant tangent.
Also, what you wrote in your first paragraph about standing up and making our positions clear is exactly what this mother is doing! You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You're also putting forth positions that the mother is not doing. She's not forcing her daughter to do anything. She's stating her position on her daughter marrying a woman.
You wrote a long diatribe, but to sum up your overall arc, you keep confusing standing up for Christian principles as the act of condemning someone.
Do you know there is a difference between standing up for truth and condemning? You obviously do not.
Condemning is making a pronouncement on someone's final state. We do not know the future of this gay daughter. We are simply called out to be ambassadors for Christ and ambassadors for His truth.
What that means is we can't be like the Spanish Inquisition and bring corporal punishment on people who go against God's ways. But you take it to the other extreme and say we must shut up about God's command that the institution of marriage is between one man and one woman. We are to pronounce Truth are we not? Yes, we do that in love. And that is exactly what this mother is doing.
She's not calling the cops on her daughter. She didn’t say she would disown the daughter and declare they no longer have a relationship ( I agree that would be sin).
She's saying she won't attend the wedding. She is standing up for her principals and the teachings of Christ by doing that.
If the gay daughter feels judged by that, that's on the daughter, NOT the mother.
Your analysis of biblical texts is very poor. I suggest you get and read "Biblical Hermenuetics" by Milton S Terry.
Thank you for sharing this clarification of the situation. When I first heard of the controversy I too was surprised, but not nearly as surprised to hear Pastor Begg and his team double down on what he said.
My only suggestion for further clarity is that the narrative of Dr. Piper was originally recorded in 2013, and not in response to what Pastor Begg said. That said, I can't imagine Dr. Piper would have strayed at all from what he said during the podcast titled "Would you attend a gay wedding?" but it is inaccurate to present that recording from 2013 as done in response to Begg's comments to the grandmother he was counseling.
I agree. Gives us the wrong impression.
Thanks for bringing this out.
Thank you for fact checking John Piper's comments from 2013 eleven years ago that was used. Sometimes we use social media and it causes more division in the church. God is the final judge for all of this. I am cautious about all videos Christian or non-Christian. Do we know if the grandmother went to the wedding and what was the result? 😢 or 😂🎉
I'm glad Alistair Begg is standing firm. He has made it plain his position on such marriages, but also knows to have the best outcome cutting communication and not showing Grandma's Christian beliefs will not further the gospel. For all those who disagree and condem him, if you are without sin yourselves you may cast the first stone.
Scripture?
”Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.“
Ephesians 5:6-12 NASB1995
We can recognize our sin and others without condoning it. Jesus said, "Judge rightly." By attending the wedding, the grandmother is saying she approves and that God will forgive and approve as well, because she is God's representative on Earth. How does that help the granddaughter get saved? "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." Psalm 1:1 kvj
Di not attend gay and transgender wedding,. attending and not attending doesn't change our status but only Christ.but it's clear in the bible,"2 Cor 6:14 " is so clear.you don't need to be a theologian to understand this verse.
There are Christians who have refused to take wedding pictures, make wedding cakes for these couples. They've lost their business over this and now a grandmother should buy a gift and celebrate?
Is possible to go to wedding and not celebrate? In Alistair Beggs 50 plus years of ministry has he ever given a reason to believe he isn’t orthodox in doctrine? Seems people are assuming much here in a vague story about a grandmother and her lost grandson.
💯
@@1SigloUno Begg is not a true Christian if he refuses to repent.
I would add when another believer stumbles in error we ought to make an effort to pray for him. Therefore we ought pray for Alastair Begg that the Holy Spirit guide him to truth in this matter.
Amen!!!!
Alistair Begg did not stumble.
I was deeply saddened by Allister's councel to this grandmother! Much harm has been done to the body of Christ.
I think there should be some liberty in this matter - exactly how to demonstrate love without compromising God's standard for marriage is tricky business. Should we attend a marriage if the couple probably or likely lived together beforehand, or if one of them has been divorced? If Alistair Begg is fully persuaded in his own mind, I'll not condemn his conviction. Would I attend a gay/transgender wedding? Depends on who it is and the nature of my relationship with them, i.e. if my attendance would demonstrate the love and grace of Christ without sacrificing his truth.
That is the crux of the matter. There is not a path where you can sin and attend. Attending is the sin because one would be in violation of Romans 1:32
@@ChroniclesOfClarityRomans 1:32 is not a commandment of law, even if it was, mercy triumphs over judgment.
Because Christ provides our righteousness we are free to be like our father in heaven and show love and mercy even towards sinners in hopes they will turn from their sin and the power of Satan and to Christ and the power of God. See Romans 2:4
God’s kindness is intended to lead us to repentance. This verse emphasizes that it is not fear or judgment that draws us to turn from sin, but rather the goodness mercy and grace of God.
I think we will be fine if we do the same.
I just want to say I have counseled on this. In fact, I am facing it again in my own family. Parents must draw a line in the sand. Are we going to teach our children truth or just cave to whatever they want - right or wrong? It’s hard. It hurts. It’s right according to my God whom I worship and follow.
Loved John Piper's very loving and correct response is perfect. Alistair, although well-meaning, is advising a dangerous compromise. Proverbs 14:12
Please take note: This clip of John Piper was NOT in response to the Alistair Begg Controversy - Piper's comments was made in his Podcast Episode 191 on Oct.10, 2013. The impression that is given is that Piper is part of the "judges" who hang Begg out there to suffocate and die. How sad! I fully agree with Piper on this topic. My big problem with this whole controversy though, is the pastor's who are outspoken in public (Lawson, MacArthur, Peters, Mohler etc.) - what happened to brotherly love? What happened to Matthew 18 and various other verses. Couldn't they just phoned him/flew to him and spoke in private with him as friend and brother and then cut him off if he does not repent. Can you hear the world/the enemy? NO, they are quiet, but they laugh about us as Christians who are destroying a brother who was faithful for many years. Was it not MAcArthur who once said that Christ's blood is not God's blood? Did Martin Lloyd Jones not also made heretical remarks at a stage in his ministry? Or JI Packer, Martin Luther, John Calvin and many other Church Fathers, and yet we still "drink in' what they preach?
@@kobusvdw You make a good point about his peers speaking to him privately. How do we know they did not? Regardless of any private conversations, I believe we benefit from thoughtful public discussions from careful-thinking leaders. I agree wholeheartedly with your point that "destroying a brother" should be avoided. Respectfully disagreeing with Alistair's advice, however, need not "destroy" him. Alistair can weigh the costs, and do as he believes is correct. He will not be "destroyed" over this. The topic is a timely one, and polite public discussions are valuable.
I feel sorry for the Grandmother. The poor woman asked someone she believed would be able to give her guidance, and after listening to what Begg said, probably bought a present and attended the event. She was lead astray by a false preacher who was considered a very sound Gospel believing Christian, and sinned because of it.
Grandma could/should have told her grandson that she loves him deeply, but since he knows her faith, she will have to pass on attending the wedding. Obviously, he did not respect her faith by asking her to begin with.
@@kimberlygenaw1502 You are 100% right. However to be fair to the Grandmother, she may be elderly and just got into a tizzy over this. Unsure what to do, she asked for advice, and got Begg unfortunately.
But as I said, you're totally right, she should have done as you said and stayed at home.
I am hoping that she will come forward and declare that she decided not to attend the wedding but she probably won't do that even if she did not attend, because she won't want to upset her grandson. Upsetting her grandson by not going to the wedding is necessary but upsetting him by talking about this publicly is not necessary.
I too feel sorry for her. I would push back a bit and say I don’t agree Alistair is a “false preacher”. I suppose time will tell, but making a biblical mistake is something everyone does, it doesn’t mean we are false, it just means we are sinful. Thanks for the comment!
@@ChroniclesOfClarity Amen! One misstep does not a heretic make!🙏
Very beautifully, lovingly, compassionately spoken by Piper. His words are true because they are biblical. We need to pray for dear Alistair Begg 😢❤
AMEN 💯
I listened to Allistair's message last September when it was released. I was relieved by his wisdom to not let pharisaical legalism guide every step he takes. Our role as believers is to be in the world, with the lost, holding their hand in their pain, misery, mistakes, and their sin. To guide them to the love of Jesus through the love of Jesus in our hearts. Locking ourselves up in the church and standing on our high horse of religious superiority isn't going to point anyone to Christ. Pastor Begg made the stance of the believer clear from the onset of his words. He did not tell the woman to congratulate the marriage and he did not tell her to go to the reception. He told her to show up and stand as a light in a very dark situation. Do you know what is missing from anything said by AFA, John Piper, and Goff? There is no mention of loving from the heart. Do you know the kind of love, praise, commitment, and obedience God wants from us? It does not come from legalism, but from the heart. I know many Christians who struggled and were torn to pieces trying to decide if they should go to a wedding or not. The Church told them not to. But guess what? They had no peace in their hearts over it. A Christian can stand anywhere for Jesus with proper discernment and by the strength of the Holy Spirit. You don't have to play the fool and "congratulate" sin, and Pastor Begg didn't suggest that. You all did. The right-wing, conservative, overly legalistic and pharisaical, seemingly perfect branch of Christians did. And just to add, I can't even listen to AFA. I have not found more proud and judgmental Christians anywhere.
💭
Scripture?
”Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.“
Ephesians 5:6-12
Well said, brother. Galatians 5:1, 1 John 3:18, Jude 1:21-23
Wow…I was leaning in Alistair’s direction because I believe his stance was in line with the love of scripture but Piper’s take was stunning and absolutely on point. Thanks for playing both, it really helped me think this through biblically. I’m still not dumping on Alistair but Pipers take is better.
Awesome to hear Mick!
Same here.
Thank you so much for this video.
Including John Pipers comments
Really affirms most of us who feel it’s wrong to attend such an event.
Our pleasure!
This is a prime example of how evangelicals are reactionary and draw lines too hastily without listening to one another. Alister is not making a general, blanket statement! He said the woman made it clear where she stood, between the loved one and herself, and that her attendance was not an affirmation of the union but of her love for her family member. He didn't address the reception. One can leave a gift without going to a reception, and the gift could be marked for her loved one alone. Of course, Christians will differ on this issue, but it seems possible to do it faithfully, in a way that does not affirm the union, only love for the relative. What disturbs me is the lack of listening that leads to these sorts of reactionary responses. Satan loves this sort of thing. Instead of infiltrating Satan's kingdom, we end up fighting each other.
I think you nhave missed the point. Begg's failure to apply the Scriptures to the lady's question speaks loudly. Attendance at the reception is irrelevant.Attendance at the performance of the "marriage" is what this is all about. Begg is a church leader thus greater responsibility lies on him when he pronounces on an issue ."Infiltrating Satan's kingdom" ?
No. You're the one whose being controversial. Christians need to stop apologizing for their position. We need go on with our lives and let the world be the world.
Methinks thou dost protest too much.....
@@daisydennis6685 Who said anything about apologizing? You sound like an idiot. Robert above is right.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
AB is spot on when the qualification is first made that they are aware that the grandmother does not support the lifestyle. Showing up is not by definition supporting the lifestyle, your words are what matter. Jesus still shows up for us even in our sin. He condemns the action, but he doesn’t stop showing up.
Actions speak much louder.
I went to my cousin's wedding to another woman. I went because I felt it important to keep those lines of communication open. I bought them a Bible. Later she asked me my opinion and I said that I believe homosexuality is wrong but so is Buddhism and I went to a Buddhist wedding ceremony also.
Can we expect non-believers to act and live by our system of beliefs? No. But we can show them love without condoning their behaviour.
God, please help our Pastors. Please keep them on your narrow path. No to all sexual sin.
John Piper has said it perfectly. Alistair Begg needs to be given this clip and ask for a response. The response will define where he is at. There is no fine line, Alistair. Scripture makes it very clear that we are to celebrate the truth, not sin, as John Piper made clear. I'm praying for Alistair
But in practice John Piper is also a false teacher because he tells people not to divorce and remarry or it is adultery and he went to his son's "adultery marriage" wedding. His son is divorced and remarried and is an associate pastor of a church in Tennessee. How can you attend an adulterous wedding when you know that God hates divorce and that marriage is a one flesh union between only one man and only one woman for life? Even if your spouse commits adultery, that isn't grounds for divorce (only for fornication during the Jewish betrothal- use KJV, ASV, JUB). Hosea was married to a prostitute, and her adultery didn't give grounds for Hosea to divorce and remarry.
@@WalkingbytheSpiritAlwaysamen, great point, not the first time piper has been totaly hypocrytical.
So where is the line drawn with attending weddings that are deemed sinful? John Piper has taught that his belief is that all remarriage after divorce is sinful if the original spouse is still living. Yet, he attended the wedding of his son who was getting remarried. I personally disagree with Pipers stance on the issue, but by his own belief is he not in the wrong as well?
Alistair Begg did a beautiful sermon on this Compassion vs Condemnation. These are very difficult times to walk as a Chirstian. He handled the sermon, so well. I am in agreement with Pastor Begg and find know biblical error in his response. Condemnation closes the door; Compassion leave it open for the Gospel. This has been helpful in knowing how to deal with family events and knowing how to respond.
To be consistent with his theological philosophy, Piper would HAVE to say: “Beggs said what he did because God determined that he did.” Piper’s response is a denial of his long stated and standing philosophy … Beggs was doing what God wanted him to do.
God is the Judge of us all, and He will take care of any correct or incorrect statements. Quietly pray about your concerns, and wait for God to work things out. Judging publicly, talking it into the ground, will only damage and bring worse . Please don’t burn Pastor Begg at the stake! I probably wouldn’t said that, but look at Pastor Begg! He is Faithful, and True. If he made a mistake, God will speak with
him about it!
Hi Patti… I don’t think I burned him at the stake, not my intent. Though, I do want to say responding publicly to public comments is how it should be handled.
There is no divorce and remarriage that is condoned by God either, and like the radio man said he would tell his friend to repent and return to his wife. So John Piper is a big hypocrite because he says divorce and remarriage is adultery, but then his own son got divorced and remarried and John Piper WENT TO THE WEDDING!!! He went to an "adultery marriage" and his son is a an associate pastor in a church in his 2nd marriage. This is horrible! Alistair Begg, John MacArthur and most all pastors are corrupted on divorce and remarriage for decades which is the apostasy in the last days. Jesus is coming, and most are going to be left behind.
We cannot choose to please men over God. This is something I am constantly working on as I am a peacemaker and people pleaser due to personality as well as growing up in a difficult environment. We cannot compromise when it comes to God’s word.
No compromise indeed!
He should be removed from Christian TV and Radio
I’ve gone to heterosexual weddings where I thoroughly doubted the faith and commitment of the bride and groom. I still went, not because I approve but because I love them.
Yes, and I have too, not the same issue here. Thanks for the comment and for stopping by!
@@ChroniclesOfClarity right, not the same issue. Alastair was clear that the grandmother had told the grandson that it was sin. In that case, and only in that case, how is it different from Jesus eating and drinking with sinners. It was the Pharisees who objected to that. Jesus told people to go and sin no more, but he didn’t refuse to be around them.
Hello all, this is already a few months old, but I feel and think it is worth leaving here at least two thoughts. It almost seems to me like some people, or indeed a general consensus, are admitting (or have admitted) a charge against Pastor Begg on the basis of one witness (1 Tim. 5:19). This clip is one of about a minute which needs to be reconciled not only with the sermons he gave before on similar topics but also on what he shared with his congregation, where he was able and free to explain more. In this he made it clear that he wouldn’t encourage a person to take part in the wedding (as the man from the podcast gave as example), nor did he tell the grandmother to support the wedding itself. Instead he advised her to go only to show the love of Christ, even in this to actually bear witness and testify to the family at the wedding in the hopes that they would repent. A separate thought on the giving of a gift is that it is not abnormal to give sinners gifts, we do it all the time, but in this case many see it to be far worse than in the others. Pastor Begg is not a stranger to asking for prayer from his congregation and, I imagine, from others. His approach to this was not as one who advised her to endorse the wedding, but to imitate Christ who dined with tax collectors, sinners, and prostitutes and shared the Gospel with them. Christ knew the woman at the well was an adulteress, even living as such right at that time with her 5th husband. He didn’t turn her away or refuse to associate with her, instead he interacted with her and shared with her the Gospel that she would then turn to him. It is my understanding that Pastor Begg advised the woman to model her interactions like that. God bless you all :)
I think Begg is a Godly man who gave unwise council. It is just the fact that this unwise council is a grave mistake in this cultural moment in the church
Thank you for addressing this the way you did…John Piper’s response to all of this is just the way you would expect a Christ Follower to respond. I have seen the “Fundamentalist’s response to Pastor Alistair on this issue and they were everything but loving…that was, quite honestly, as grievous as what Pastor Alistair said that started all of this. I believe the response your platform gave to this was very God honoring…so, again, thank-you!! This is what Truth with Love and Grace looks like!!
I am humbled to hear this. Thank you for the encouragement, it is very much appreciated!
We can say now that the devil is having a heyday. It is also giving a platform for self righteous people to express thier "what they would or would not have given as counsel". Most Biblical TRUE Christians know what God's Word says about a Biblical marriage. Have we looked at this situation as an opportunity?, for this grandmother to have a future impact through her Faith in Jesus to give a reason for her belief in what God has ordained with gentleness & respect, thus helping the grandson or partner to turn from their sin, repenting & ultimately desolving the relationship & giving it up for God!! All things are possible with God!! We need to be careful in calling someone in the ministry to such controversy that it drives others away from the very truth you feel you are conveying. "Sometimes we are smug and we don't know we are smug, because we are smug." Seriously, consider that comment.
If attendance is approval, how does that work with going to the grocery store? Wouldnt the same reasoning destroy all outreach? What about bar, prison, casino, even strip club ministries? If you have a bar ministry, amd you have to pay a cover charge to get in, how is that not the same as this mystical "presence=approval" thing?
I support Alister Begg's decision to preach Luke 15. His counsel to the grandmother was to be Christ-like. Jesus not only had lunch with harlots and tax collectors, but Jesus also had lunch with His enemies, the Pharisees and Scribes. Jesus told the Pharisees that harlots and tax collectors would enter the kingdom before them. Luke 15 is a great choice, to demonstrate Alister's good counsel to this loving grandmother.
How did we ever get to the place where the Pharisees and Scribes are once again running the moral choices of Christians?
We have made the world our enemy. The world is not the problem. The Pharisees have taken over the church.
I have three cousins that are gay. Does that mean that I can never attend family functions? Am I compromising my stand as a preacher, hell no!!! They are well aware of my TH-cam channel.
When did we get to the place when we shun Christ-like behavior?
From my perspective, Alister Begg has a great opportunity to make a stand. We need to call the church back to Christ, because we have left him behind a long time ago. We need to return to the teachings of Christ. He is our standard. Not the moral standards put forth by the Pharisees of today.
There are 2 beliefs that Alistair holds. He sincerely believes scripture. He sincerely belives that his reasoning to go and bring a gift is the best way to influence her grandson toward Christianity. His reasoning on scripture is sound. His reasoning on the 2nd is in error. He sincerely believes that his advice is the best course and does not see the contradiction. Most fundamental in his reasoning is that it's based on the outcome, the effect of not attending, rather than the biblical principle.
I don't think it's pride, although I can't know that, he unfortunately believes the attendance will produce the best chance of future salvation for the grandson.
All of us struggle sometimes between compassion/love and truth of principle; and I hope Alistair will rethink his reasoning.
Amen!🙏
Satan has major influence in Christesdom churches.
We are in a spiritual battle
Thank you Michael. You have made it all very clear. it is baffling how this has all happened. lets hope Alistair realizes the error of his words and the damage they will do.
Thanks for the kind words and glad you found it helpful!
Satan is having a field day. We know that we’re all sinners and we also know that if we are guilty of one sin, we’re guilty of them all.
Now we have all of these judges that have websites and most of them have already condemned Alistair Begg for what they believe was for his sin.
They even went so far as to take him off the radio where he had close to half a million listeners.
Satan and his minions are all celebrating.
Let’s go after John MacArthur next.
that is a very strong reply and any one that comments is by nature making a judgement. Alistair has shocked the christian world with his views. He has made his views abundantly clear and will not back down. Therefore we have a right to disagree. what Satan would actually like is if Christians remained silent on extreme doctrines and we all went around with a soporific smile on our faces claiming peace to all. That is not how the gospel works. True love demands truth and a brother who is in error should be pulled back from that error. that my friend is true love.@@RichardSmith-dj2th
Did Alistair probe the conscience of the grandmother before giving his answer? It sounds as though she had serious reservations and was confused and surprised by Alistair's response. If his response caused her to dismiss her reservations, I would find that to be problematic and largely unethical. Alistair cannot set aside matters of conscience; such is not an act of love.
This is a great point, thanks for making it. And I have no idea how long he spoke with her.
@@ChroniclesOfClarity Thanks. I hope she followed her conscience.
Amen. You, Piper, and AFR are standing for God’s truth and showing real love for peoples souls.
Thank you!
There is an old clip of Alastair Begg saying he is too simple to understand the marriage and divorce issue and that he was comfortable with remarriage. As someone who is fighting for my marriage and does not believe that remarriage is Biblical I am sensitive about this and I believe that the exception clause only appears in Matthew which was written to Jews and is the context of betrothal (ie Joseph willing to divorce Mary). The fact that he gave his opinion under the cover of being a “simple man” was very disappointing and distanced me from him.
I’m very sorry for what you are going through and agree an Elder cannot be “simple”
Love vs righteousness. What do you think Jesus (who ate with sinners) would choose in this gay wedding circumstance, especially if it was His earthly family? Judgment or Love (and Peace)? We would be better equipped to be seeking the Lord's will earnestly and continuously, rather than falling back on our nature to reinforce our own comfort zones, even when those zones appear to confirm biblical truth. Are we winning souls for Christ by insulating ourselves from sinners? And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
John Piper right on for his comments!! John 14:6
🤲
He always looked like a softy, I never lisened to him. I only listen to strong pastors who defend the truth, like Macarthur and Lawson.
It is just insane how far some people will go to remain "relevant" in this culture. Piper got it right.
Piper is a Grace to the church 💯
Pastor John MacArthur removes Alister from the Shepherds Conference / his picture is down / That's ACCOUNTABILITY !!!!
Interesting development for sure!
The Church must be alert and discerning. Jesus warned us 4 times in Matthew 24, " Do not be deceived or Do not be led astray. ! Paul also warned of the apostasy, a falling away from the truth..
Good point
Agree 💯
John Piper did well to shore up the break in the hedge.
That is a fantastic way to put it. Thank you!!!
Ok, so this guy adds comment. If you go to the wedding your approving, that's not true. Maybe for him, it's true, he feels that way. The Bible doesn't say that. And we have to be harmless's dogs. And why is a serpent? And we should not major in the minors here. I think this is something the woman or any individual Christian needs to take up with the Lord. You can be a witness for the Lord anywhere you go if you are in the Holy Spirit and you're a light. I'm not encouraging people to attend gay weddings. I'm simply saying it needs to be brought up in prayer. We can love these people without Alienating them, The fruit of the spirit is love!
Don't let your love become legalistic.
Or discernment! Let the Holy Spirit be the Holy Spirit. We as visuals make a terrible Holy Spirit.
It's not a wedding as defined by the words of the One who instituted the marriage bond.
@@danielwolf2163 To attend the wedding is to functionally approve of it. A person is not forced to attend something that God does not approve of, and to make the choice to be present at the celebration of something wicked is to functionally show approval. The logic that says one must attend or else the one acting sinfully will perceive judgmentalism is basically saying that a sinning person's thoughts are the authority over a Christian's actions instead of the will of God. The same logic would also have to defend going with someone to have an abortion, steal something, or commit adultery so that the one doing so doesn't feel judged. I'd encourage you to take a close look at the words of Psalm 1. Hating what is evil and clinging to what is good is not legalism, and speaking against serious error is not alienating someone. The one doing wrong is alienating himself from the truth.
the "hedge" you speak of can be very toxic consider.... this quote "When you die, God isn't going to ask you about someone else. He won't ask you about the two men down the street who got married. He won't ask you about the girl who had an abortion. He won't ask you about the atheist that lives on the corner. He won't ask you about the woman who feels more comfortable as a man. He will ask you how you loved those people as He called you to do. And some of you didn't" Mr Begg was giving the Gma permission to show love not judge those outside the church.
Thank you Michael. Piper’s points were encouraging to hear and, they were clear & biblically accurate. Always encouraging to hear a voice of Discernment. The Elders of Parkside Church need to exercise Discernment and hold Alistair accountable.
Thanks Scott!! Agree 💯
Thank you for sharing this. I totally agree with John Piper; he's spot on correct. Take care. 🙏
Definitely agree
Thank you!!!!
Excellent work on this issue. Great advice from John Piper... Thank you!
Thank you Craig, I appreciate the kind words and for taking the time to watch and comment
We shouldn’t be giving gifts and expecting this behaviour. When we start being a part of sin is not appropriate in any fashion. We as Christian don’t in anyway support same sex marriage because God is very clear it’s sin final. !
Amen!!!! 🔥
I am so GLAD to see this video!!! I just learned of Alistair's opinion on this matter and I am very sad. Thanks for letting me hear John Piper's opinion which beautifully expresses what I think God liked!!! I am praying for Alistair. King David had to apologize for his actions, I hope Alistair will also. To be so close to the rapture and...
You are so welcome!
Thank you for showing the difficult response we must make as Christians. I never looked at it as confirming a sin that grieves God. It was such a fine line in my mind until I listened to all the comments.
Another great analogy I've heard is...would you drive a friend to have an abortion? Wouldn't driving her be aiding in her sin.
I agree with Alistair!! But for the grace of God. We assume we can force people to think differently. We cannot. We can, though, love them into the Kingdom. You guys are out of line .
Why might a Christian refuse to attend, cater, or participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony? For simplicity's sake, let's assume this is a discussion among traditional Christians who believe-as the church has always believed and as most of the global church still believes-that same-sex behavior is sinful and that marriage is a covenantal, conjugal union of a man and a woman.
With that clarifying comment, we can address the question head-on: Why would a Christian feel conscience bound not to attend or participate in a gay wedding? It's not because of bigotry or fear or because we are unaware that Jesus spent time with sinners that leads us to this conclusion. It's because of our desire to be obedient to Christ and because of the nature of the wedding event itself.
A wedding ceremony, in the Christian tradition, is first of all a worship service. So if the union being celebrated in the service cannot be biblically sanctioned as an act of worship, we believe the service lends credence to a lie. We cannot in good conscience participate in a service of false worship. I understand that does not sound very nice, but the conclusion follows from the premise, namely, that the "marriage" being celebrated is not in fact a marriage and should not be celebrated.
Moreover, there has long been an understanding that those present at a marriage ceremony are not just casual observers, but they are witnesses who are granting their approval and support for the vows that are to be made. That's why the traditional language speaks of gathering "here in the sight of God, and in the face of this congregation." That's why one of the sample marriage services in the Presbyterian Church in America still has the minister say:
If any man can show just cause why they may not lawfully be wedded, let him now declare it, or else hereafter forever hold his peace.
Quite explicitly, the wedding is not a party for friends and family. It's not a mere ceremonial formality. It is a divine event in which those gathered celebrate and honor the "solemnization of matrimony."
Which is why-as much as I might want to build bridges with a lesbian friend or reassure a gay family member that I care for him and want to have a relationship with him-I would not attend a same-sex wedding ceremony. I cannot help with my cake, with my flowers, or with my presence to solemnize what is not holy.
In taking such a position, I've often heard things like this in response:
But Jesus hung out with sinners. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. He would say to us, "If someone forces you to bake one cake, bake for him two."
Okay, let's think through these objections. I mean actually think for a few sentences, and not just with slogans and vague sentimentality.
Jesus hung out with sinners. True, sort of (depends on what you mean by "hung out"). But Jesus believed marriage was between a man and a woman (Matt. 19:3-9). The example of Christ in the Gospels teaches us that we should not be afraid to spend time with sinners. If a gay couple next door invites you over for dinner, don't turn them down.
He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. That's not the concern here. This isn't about cooties or sin germs. We have plenty of those ourselves.
He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. But Jesus did so all the time. He acted in ways that could be unintentionally, and more often deliberately, antagonistic (Matt. 7:6, 13-27; 11:20-24; 13:10-17; 19:16-30). Jesus turned people off all the time. This is no excuse for us to be unthinking and unkind. But it should put to rest the unbiblical notion that says if someone feels hurt by your words or unloved by your actions that you were ipso facto sinfully and foolishly unloving.
He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. Amen. Let's keep preaching Christ and preach as He did, calling all people to "repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).
If someone forces to you bake one cake, bake for him two. This is, of course, a true and beautiful principle about how Christians, when reviled, must not revile in return. But it hardly can mean that we do whatever people demand no matter our rights (Acts 4:18-20; 16:35-40; 22:22-29) and no matter what is right in God's eyes.
A wedding is not a dinner invitation or a graduation open house or retirement party. Even in a completely secular environment, there is still a sense-and sometimes the wedding invitations say as much-that our presence at the event would honor the couple and their marriage. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to attend a wedding (let alone cater it or provide the culinary centerpiece) without your presence communicating celebration and support for what is taking place. And, as painful as it may be for us and for those we love, celebrating and supporting homosexual unions is not something God or His Word will allow us to do.
I agree with you that a wedding ceremony represents a sacred space. Nevertheless, my attendance to wedding ceremonies does not make me a greater sinner. I wouldn’t go to because I accept the union as a valid representation of love but rather to say I understand. I understand the desire to legitimize something that like Eve, “seems” so right. I understand the the harshness of loneliness, and I sympathize with the struggle to normalize what can never, ever be holy. We Christians can easily forget what lostness feels like. If I go to a transgender gathering, or a bar, or meet with an orthodox priest who has lost his way, I go to offer a way to the One who loved me into His love and way of loving. He did not shame me or disdain me into His love. My disdain and shame were my own. He entered into my confusion and set me free by His amazing kindness.
PIper is not normally someone I listen to or follow, but he's right on in this instance
I pray Pastor MacArthur would reach out to AB in the spirit of Matthew 18 and also seriously reconsider having AB speak at the upcoming ShepCon24
I commend him to you, he is a gift to the church.
Begg's response to the approach by the grandmother is weak-kneed , unhelpful and sends an uncertain message to us all. He should have been strong ,Bible-based , clear and certain. He asked her the wrong questions and failed to guide her according to the Scriptures. He has abdicated in his responsibility to be a true shepherd of God's people
And one more comment regarding one of the panel member's illustration of the adulterous "best friend" ... if Alistair were to take this example to the worst degree possible (incest, etc.), we KNOW he wouldn't attend such a "celebration." Come on, Alistair, don't let your wonderful legacy be eternally ruined by this compassionate, well-meaning but WRONG statement!
Unfortunately, Alister Begg missed not only the mark, he missed the whole target. By using Luke 15, Alister seems to have missed the entire point of the message especially concerning the story of the Prodigal Son. Yes, his father let him go, but the father did not follow his son in approving of his son's lifestyle. It was not until the son came home broken that a celebration took place. The advice Alister should have given: “Grandmother, pray that your grandson will repent. You should not attend a ceremony where it becomes a mockery of what God has ordained as holy. That does not mean you stop loving your grandson; you should pray daily for his repentance and pray that God's mercy would turn his harden heart to the truth.”
The passage that Alister used is a gross misrepresentation of what Jesus was teaching to his disciples and the Pharisees. Nowhere in the text do you find Jesus approving of the sinful lifestyle of the Tax Collectors and sinners. Nowhere do you find Jesus profaning anything that was holy; if he did, then he would not be a holy God. The sinners were coming to him, not the other way around! Alister seems to have missed this point. Sad day for Biblical Truth, but it will not diminish the truth of God's written word or its authority.
Yes, I have a new video going live in the next hour or so with his new defense
I agree 100 percent with Mr. Begg. I've been listening to his message for over 10yrs, and this is consistent with the teaching of the God's love for all of us through Jesus. Broadcasts like this continue to amplify the fact that Christians are extremely blind and violent, no matter if it's a sinner or Saint. It's time to wake up and understand Jesus's passion.
Where is the love of God in all of this to one another?
There can be no true love without the truth.
Allistair Begg’s response was totally Christian. The grandma was not unaware of her grandson’s lifestyle but still lived her grandson. So yes, go to the wedding, bring a gift, perhaps a bible, continue to let him know it is unbiblicle, and continue to LOVE him. Allistair was on target.
Why might a Christian refuse to attend, cater, or participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony? For simplicity's sake, let's assume this is a discussion among traditional Christians who believe-as the church has always believed and as most of the global church still believes-that same-sex behavior is sinful and that marriage is a covenantal, conjugal union of a man and a woman.
With that clarifying comment, we can address the question head-on: Why would a Christian feel conscience bound not to attend or participate in a gay wedding? It's not because of bigotry or fear or because we are unaware that Jesus spent time with sinners that leads us to this conclusion. It's because of our desire to be obedient to Christ and because of the nature of the wedding event itself.
A wedding ceremony, in the Christian tradition, is first of all a worship service. So if the union being celebrated in the service cannot be biblically sanctioned as an act of worship, we believe the service lends credence to a lie. We cannot in good conscience participate in a service of false worship. I understand that does not sound very nice, but the conclusion follows from the premise, namely, that the "marriage" being celebrated is not in fact a marriage and should not be celebrated.
Moreover, there has long been an understanding that those present at a marriage ceremony are not just casual observers, but they are witnesses who are granting their approval and support for the vows that are to be made. That's why the traditional language speaks of gathering "here in the sight of God, and in the face of this congregation." That's why one of the sample marriage services in the Presbyterian Church in America still has the minister say:
If any man can show just cause why they may not lawfully be wedded, let him now declare it, or else hereafter forever hold his peace.
Quite explicitly, the wedding is not a party for friends and family. It's not a mere ceremonial formality. It is a divine event in which those gathered celebrate and honor the "solemnization of matrimony."
Which is why-as much as I might want to build bridges with a lesbian friend or reassure a gay family member that I care for him and want to have a relationship with him-I would not attend a same-sex wedding ceremony. I cannot help with my cake, with my flowers, or with my presence to solemnize what is not holy.
In taking such a position, I've often heard things like this in response:
But Jesus hung out with sinners. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. He would say to us, "If someone forces you to bake one cake, bake for him two."
Okay, let's think through these objections. I mean actually think for a few sentences, and not just with slogans and vague sentimentality.
Jesus hung out with sinners. True, sort of (depends on what you mean by "hung out"). But Jesus believed marriage was between a man and a woman (Matt. 19:3-9). The example of Christ in the Gospels teaches us that we should not be afraid to spend time with sinners. If a gay couple next door invites you over for dinner, don't turn them down.
He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. That's not the concern here. This isn't about cooties or sin germs. We have plenty of those ourselves.
He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. But Jesus did so all the time. He acted in ways that could be unintentionally, and more often deliberately, antagonistic (Matt. 7:6, 13-27; 11:20-24; 13:10-17; 19:16-30). Jesus turned people off all the time. This is no excuse for us to be unthinking and unkind. But it should put to rest the unbiblical notion that says if someone feels hurt by your words or unloved by your actions that you were ipso facto sinfully and foolishly unloving.
He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. Amen. Let's keep preaching Christ and preach as He did, calling all people to "repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).
If someone forces to you bake one cake, bake for him two. This is, of course, a true and beautiful principle about how Christians, when reviled, must not revile in return. But it hardly can mean that we do whatever people demand no matter our rights (Acts 4:18-20; 16:35-40; 22:22-29) and no matter what is right in God's eyes.
A wedding is not a dinner invitation or a graduation open house or retirement party. Even in a completely secular environment, there is still a sense-and sometimes the wedding invitations say as much-that our presence at the event would honor the couple and their marriage. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to attend a wedding (let alone cater it or provide the culinary centerpiece) without your presence communicating celebration and support for what is taking place. And, as painful as it may be for us and for those we love, celebrating and supporting homosexual unions is not something God or His Word will allow us to do.
I did not understand Begg’s advice to the individual as a blanket endorsement of attending all such unions, but rather, a response to her specific situation.
It doesn't matter if it was a blanket statement or not. It was still evil advice.
Thank you - this was very helpful and Piper nailed it - excellent, biblical response .
Thanks Bill for the kind words and for stopping by!
Thanks for your video and the clips. I'm shocked to just hear about this from Pastor Begg. It has given a great opportunity for the Christian community to hear from those in rebuttal give their correction. Begg isn't taking into consideration the grandson's grief imposed upon his grandmother's conviction.
You are welcome! Yes, this has so many facets to it and yet Alistair seems to negate many of them in his reasoning.
Thank you Michael. I have been waiting to hear more about this preacher's overstep outside of biblical advice to a seeking believer. Wedding 101: Those who attend weddings are doing so to affirm and approve and celebrate the union of the couple. If you cannot do those three things, then please do not attend. Your presence is unwelcome at their celebration. Well said Piper for walking in the truth in love.
excellent comment
Thanks Julia… appreciate the comments and agree with you
How can I get a hard copy manuscript of this?
Of the entire video?
I have always considered attending a wedding was as being a witness to it. Traditional wedding ceremonies sometimes has the officiant remind the bride and groom that the vows they make are “ before God and these witnesses”. I could not in good conscience attend a same sex wedding ceremony. It grieves me to hear of Pastor Begg giving this council. It also grieves me to see more added divisions in the body of Christ among faithful gospel preachers and brethren.
💯
Only God knows what was/is in alistair's heart concerning the issue. Yes, his council to the grandmother was far from biblical Fidelity. I have benefited immensely from both Piper and begg on my journey through the narrow way, and would only submit that we not condemn Alistair for his seemingly fleshly answer, but pray for him in his continued advancement of the body of Christ. We should remember that until the adoption is complete, we all will, and have fallen short probably every day in our walk.
While I do condemn his council on the matter with the grandmother, I will petition God for mercy and repentance for this brother and pastor. And not to miss the log in my own eye, I continue to ask for mercy and repentance for myself.
Pray for pastor Begg. We serve a compassionate Lord and God,..
Amen!
Amen
Never heard of Allister Begg. But, whoever he is, he’s wrong.
Congratulations to A. Begg for standing firm on his position. I support his position and believe it has biblical justification. I have watched hours of TH-camrs attacking him and his views, along with they supporters, and have found the Christian community's response pretty much terribly un-Christian and vitriolic. What should have been a better response is this: Begg is a respected pastor, so lets reserve judgment and use this as an opportunity for believers to dialogue with him on this very challenging, ethically charged matter in order to gain a better understanding of why he takes the position he articulated, and get his response to objections. Instead, Christians have done nothing but exercise foolish name calling and labeling (demonic, compromiser, coward, to name a few). Unfortunately, the Christian community at large is quiet often its own worst enemy.
I totally agree with your comment. The “Christian Community “ is so off base in their response to this situation. I am deeply grieved by them.
I agree, with part of your comments. That is why I said in this video I was not calling him a faith denier or a heretic, rather he is clearly wrong with his advice, and that is based on Romans 1:32…
Thank you for your response. I was asked by someone who disliked my support for Begg the question, Would Jesus go to a gay wedding?" I responded as follows: To answer that question one would need to go back to Jesus' ministry and examine his actions at that time in order to create a bridge from his world to ours, and from there make application to our own contemporary challenges. Unfortunately, what I have seen from Begg's critics is a failure to even attempt such a task. I see absolutely no biblical warrant for claiming Begg's advice is wrong. I base that on Luke 15:1-3 as one of several Scriptural situations involving Jesus and his critics. You suggest Begg's advice to the grandmother and Jesus' going to dinner or a party are not the same. I beg to differ and believe your position creates a false dichotomy. They are definitely the same in principle. In Jesus' world, eating with sinners and tax collectors, considered notorious sinners at that, had serious social ramifications. To eat with these people not only meant he was their friend, but would be construed as condoning their behavior. This was what it meant in that culture to have what would be interpreted as table fellowship. In volume 2 of Darrell Bock's commentary on Luke 15:1-3 he writes: "Eating with sinners and tax collectors is particularly galling, for table fellowship with such people suggests a level of acceptance that is distasteful to the leaders....He is interested in befriending such undesirables, regardless of what others may think. His rationale is simple: he wishes to draw them to God." (Bock, 2:1298-99). I don't expect you to agree with my position, and that is fine. In light of what many have voiced, such as immediate calls for repentance, recanting, charges of cowardice, demonic teaching, compromiser, there would be a call to Begg to join people in a civil discourse on this issue. I think what Begg has done, possibly without knowing it, is he has forced all of us to think about our positions on this issue and, in a more sober-minded manner, be willing to seek to understand and examine the Scriptures more thoroughly, as well as engage in better ethical thinking than what has been displayed by so many leveling heavy criticism. We can all agree that homosexuality, lesbianism, transgenderism, and the LGBTQ movement all constitute sin, but how we deal with these people enslaved in darkness is another matter necessitating greater discussion.
Thanks for the comment. My only reservation with using Romans 1:32 is this: Paul is saying that those who give hearty approval of such practices incur condemnation. I don't see that Begg's advice, or the grandmother's attending (if she did so) is giving hearty approval to the grandson's lifestyle or the wedding itself any more than Jesus eating with sinners and tax collectors gives hearty approval of their behavior. In Jesus' case, he was criticized based on perceptions of his actions, and the same would be the case regarding the grandmother if she took his advice. What I believe Begg has done is open the door for a more robust discussion of this situation, enlisting good theological, ethical, and biblical investigation in order to better grasp how to navigate through these issues. Two good resources dealing with Luke 15:1-3 and the question of eating meals in the NT era are Darrell Bock's two-volume exegetical commentary on Luke, and Tim Chester's book, A Meal With Jesus. Again, thanks for your comment, @@ChroniclesOfClarity
Thank you. I am ashamed of so many Christians' attitude..
Why might a Christian refuse to attend, cater, or participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony? For simplicity's sake, let's assume this is a discussion among traditional Christians who believe-as the church has always believed and as most of the global church still believes-that same-sex behavior is sinful and that marriage is a covenantal, conjugal union of a man and a woman.
With that clarifying comment, we can address the question head-on: Why would a Christian feel conscience bound not to attend or participate in a gay wedding? It's not because of bigotry or fear or because we are unaware that Jesus spent time with sinners that leads us to this conclusion. It's because of our desire to be obedient to Christ and because of the nature of the wedding event itself.
A wedding ceremony, in the Christian tradition, is first of all a worship service. So if the union being celebrated in the service cannot be biblically sanctioned as an act of worship, we believe the service lends credence to a lie. We cannot in good conscience participate in a service of false worship. I understand that does not sound very nice, but the conclusion follows from the premise, namely, that the "marriage" being celebrated is not in fact a marriage and should not be celebrated.
Moreover, there has long been an understanding that those present at a marriage ceremony are not just casual observers, but they are witnesses who are granting their approval and support for the vows that are to be made. That's why the traditional language speaks of gathering "here in the sight of God, and in the face of this congregation." That's why one of the sample marriage services in the Presbyterian Church in America still has the minister say:
If any man can show just cause why they may not lawfully be wedded, let him now declare it, or else hereafter forever hold his peace.
Quite explicitly, the wedding is not a party for friends and family. It's not a mere ceremonial formality. It is a divine event in which those gathered celebrate and honor the "solemnization of matrimony."
Which is why-as much as I might want to build bridges with a lesbian friend or reassure a gay family member that I care for him and want to have a relationship with him-I would not attend a same-sex wedding ceremony. I cannot help with my cake, with my flowers, or with my presence to solemnize what is not holy.
In taking such a position, I've often heard things like this in response:
But Jesus hung out with sinners. He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. He would say to us, "If someone forces you to bake one cake, bake for him two."
Okay, let's think through these objections. I mean actually think for a few sentences, and not just with slogans and vague sentimentality.
Jesus hung out with sinners. True, sort of (depends on what you mean by "hung out"). But Jesus believed marriage was between a man and a woman (Matt. 19:3-9). The example of Christ in the Gospels teaches us that we should not be afraid to spend time with sinners. If a gay couple next door invites you over for dinner, don't turn them down.
He wasn't worried about being contaminated by the world. That's not the concern here. This isn't about cooties or sin germs. We have plenty of those ourselves.
He didn't want to turn people off to God's love. But Jesus did so all the time. He acted in ways that could be unintentionally, and more often deliberately, antagonistic (Matt. 7:6, 13-27; 11:20-24; 13:10-17; 19:16-30). Jesus turned people off all the time. This is no excuse for us to be unthinking and unkind. But it should put to rest the unbiblical notion that says if someone feels hurt by your words or unloved by your actions that you were ipso facto sinfully and foolishly unloving.
He was always throwing open the floodgates of God's mercy. Amen. Let's keep preaching Christ and preach as He did, calling all people to "repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).
If someone forces to you bake one cake, bake for him two. This is, of course, a true and beautiful principle about how Christians, when reviled, must not revile in return. But it hardly can mean that we do whatever people demand no matter our rights (Acts 4:18-20; 16:35-40; 22:22-29) and no matter what is right in God's eyes.
A wedding is not a dinner invitation or a graduation open house or retirement party. Even in a completely secular environment, there is still a sense-and sometimes the wedding invitations say as much-that our presence at the event would honor the couple and their marriage. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to attend a wedding (let alone cater it or provide the culinary centerpiece) without your presence communicating celebration and support for what is taking place. And, as painful as it may be for us and for those we love, celebrating and supporting homosexual unions is not something God or His Word will allow us to do.