Pre-Trib or Post-Trib: Why Does It Matter? Lance Wallnau, Russell Johnson, Lee Cummings
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ธ.ค. 2023
- Watch LIVE on Daystar.com/live
-------------------------------
Follow Us on Social:
Twitter: / daystar
Facebook: / daystartv - บันเทิง
![เปิดบ้านสุดหรู "เเจ็ค the ghost" ลั่นถ้าป๋องกพลลำบากผมเลี้ยงเอง!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1xbW4vULqGc/mqdefault.jpg)
Lance Wallnau is the best, I learn so much from him. He's such a good teacher
With so much darkness and hopelessness going on in the world, by tuning in on Daystar or Joni s table talk, one finds encouragement and hope and light. Thank you Joni and the amazing panel ❤❤❤
We are in the middle of a study of Daniel in our ladies group at church. We are solid in the Word and praying for each other. Thank you for sharing with us today.😊
Joni is this answer from your group? What those preachers said is all wrong. Do you realize that Joni?
That "Russell Johnson guy" is phenomenal!... and I thought my siblings talk fast😮! What a articulate individual&he is "right on!" TMc
Pre-Trib 💯
Pre-trib. Love Pastor Russell
You might want to seek discernment and reconsider.
Pre-tribulation 'escape' does sound pleasant to itching ears.
However, there is no clear scripture to support this doctrine.
One might want to consider my post above with more explanation and scriptural reference.
No thanks I have been studying Bible Prophecy for many many years and the Rapture is taught from Genesis to Revelation. Dig deeper in the original Hebrew and Greek.
Yes my friend I do believe you are correct. "Much more than, now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. Wrath, in this scripture, refers to the Tribulation. No wrath for us!
Pre-wrath
Thank you for this program. We need to hear this today because our world is getting darker but the light is shining. The light of Daystar is shining brightly thanks so much.❤😊
Joni, you should have Joel Richardson on. He’s a true follower who’s authored many books with uncanny insight on eschatology.
Pre trib. It matters. We are told to comfort one another with this hope. I don't even want to hear from those that believe we are going through the Tribulation anymore. It is not hopeful nor comforting.
I do understand your comments.
Of course this pre-trib doctrine sounds pleasant.
But, remember... TRUTH is what matters.
And there will be many false prophets who will speak what itching ears want to hear.
We are to comfort one another with the HOPE and our FAITH that we know we have salvation thru Christ Jesus... And that HE will COME for us.
There is no indication about when this will happen, except that this is clearly post-tribulation. ( pre-wrath )
We are never promised to escape tribulation. We are called to REJOICE AND PERSEVERE in tribulation.
We ARE promised to escape wrath.
know that tribulation and wrath are two completely different and non-interchangeable things. Wisdom brings discernment.
While I understand your feelings. We must SEEK TRUTH.
The Scriptures and our Salvation are about TRUTH.. not our feelings.
TRUTH is what 'matters'.
You mention comfort.... We are sent the Holy Spirit, the Comforter...
We have inner PEACE, peace that surpasses all understanding.
I do not know if you have seen my post, about one hour ago... But you might consider looking, for more explanation and Scriptural reference.
With all love, in CHRIST.
Amen
Yes. Thank the word of the Lord!❤
GREAT SHOW AND GREAT CONVERSATIONS! GOD BLESS!
LOVE DAYSTAR !!!! ❤AL OF TODAY'S GUEST WERE GREAT AS ALWAY'S JONI THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.I ALWAY'S FEEL SUCH PEACE WHEN JONI TALK'S.GOD BLESS YOU ALL.❤❤❤❤❤😇🙏🏼
Thank you, Thank you!! This was so so precious!!😪🙏🙏❤️
Blessings from Norway 🙏❤️👋👋🇳🇴
Thank you for watching Esther! We pray that Daystar can continue to be a blessing to you!
Love your show! Thanks so much for doing this work! ❤️🙏🏻
Always share your salvation to as many people you can! How Jesus loves us all and how we need to be ready at all times...
We are living in the time of the signs, watch and pray
Thank you all, much love for all. 😊
Love your program and thank you for sharing the the truth and your faith. God bless you and your whole family and ministry.
fantastic program!!!
So great and so encouraging.
Joni why don’t you bring teachers of prophecy like Mark Hitchcock?
Spot on one coming and one return to the earth
According to many scholars. First the rapture than 7 years of Tribulation and than the 2nd coming.
And men will set up for themselves teachers (plural, many) who will preach to itching ears. (forsaking the truth and simplicity of the true Gospel)
There will be many false prophets.
In the end, deception will be strong.. Even the elect...
Do not be confused.
Pray and open your mind to wisdom and discernment.
One might want to consider my post, 6 hours above, with more explanation and Scriptural reference.
Amen!!
Joni doesn’t think so.
Joni doesn’t think that. And that is wrong!
Matt 24 & 2Thess 2 says the church will be here when the Abomination of Desolation happens. 3.5 years into the 7 years.
Great program! 🔥
Thank you for being consistent
This is so good and needs to be shared! 😊
Thanks for your kind words, Belinda! We pray that Daystar can continue to be a blessing to you! ❤️
Love it! Good one, Joni!
Jesus says in Revelation 7 : 14 that out of Great Tribulation will come people that have washed their robs in the Blood of the lamb, people can be saved during that time The 7 years Tribulation, It will be hard but people can be saved.
Ephesians 5:29-31 His Bride His church His Flesh... God would not allow His own to go through His wrath Rev.6:12-17
Rev.4;1-4 Voice sounding like a Trumpet... Rapture-Immediatelv in the Spirit... Elders have crowns and all who loved His appearing 2Tim.4:8
Luke 8:4-15 seed on different soil... Rev.7:9-17 came from Rev.6:9-11 ....v7,8 1/4ppl die... some martyrs
There will be Tribulation saints, it won't be easy...but not impossible. I'd rather be raptured than be left behind and have to endure.
@@richardjohanson6421 Tribulation is NOT wrath.... This is clear. Understanding of this brings discernment. The truth and the chronology are clear. tribulation... second coming/rapture.. seven bowls/vials of wrath... Christ reigns with his people from the New Jerusalem.
Great show!
We're glad you enjoyed the show! What was your favorite part?
Amazing program Joni Table Talk ❤🙏
❤ thank u, I needed to hear this 🙏
Excellent show! Thank you Joni for inviting the anointed guests.
Please pray for my family salvation? The Fruge family in Louisiana time is know. Thank you ❤you joni
Father I pray for the family...for your grace and your precious salvation for all with the infilling of your spirit..that grace&peace abound in their lives in Jesus name Amen
I love the richness of the ‘truth’ of this program.
Great powerul delivery
Bring back Jimmy Evans.....
Parable of the virgins. All 10 were virgins...pure. ONLY the five that kept watching went with the bridegroom. Only the Christians who are watching will be raptured.. Others...such as boomerang Christians, will get the "honor" of being tribulation saints. I'll keep watching and listening as I occupy thank you very much. I've not been appointed to wrath and and have prayed that I be worthy to ESCAPE. Rapture theology is not an eternal or salvation issue but it is an issue none the less.
That is a LOT of assumption about the bridesmaids/virgins. Not a lot of clear truth.
We are never promised to escape tribulation... Tribulation and wrath are two completely different and not interchangeable things.
Understanding brings discernment.
You might see my post above for explanation and Scriptural reference. Which is not assumption about a parable, but clear Scriptural truth.
@@princesssweetpea9205 Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Show me the scripture that speaks of “tribulation saints”.
I believe the parable of the virgins pertains to Israel: Israel will come to the realization that Yeshua is ha’Mashiach during the time of the tribulation, a time when one must have enough oil to endure to the end. Unlike the church age, salvation can indeed be lost if one makes the tragic error of accepting the mark of the beast. The bride is already with the bridegroom.
Thank you Jony
9:32 hallelujah!!! Jesus chooses me, daily ❤
Everyday, I need the Lord ❤️ Jesus is Lord!
Yes Amen
the parable of the 99 sheep, the good sheppard says none of his flock will be lost
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter when his return is but that when he does, he will find you being about his business, not stand idle, clock watching. It’s like working around the guy who shows up for work that only focuses on when the work day will be over and never gets much accomplished. Typically these guys get fired. Pre, mid, post is irrelevant, especially if you don’t qualify to go.
So good conversetion
Thank you Gadly peapol
There are no passages in context that actually teach a pretrib rapture, right? I mean where? Jesus said his one future return will be "after the tribulation of those days." That's what HE said.
I love when you have Lance Wallnau on your show! Please have him back more often.
I love you Joni
❤❤❤❤❤❤
What does it mean in the Bible when it tells us to come out of the world if we're to go deeper out in the world? I understand but I'm not sure if everyone does. I know I'm looking for His coming but living still here with His help .
Love day star
I love Lance!!! I love you all! Jesus is on the way. 🙌
TY for saying rapture and 2nd coming happen at the same time.
If there is a post-trib rapture, and all of the believers left on earth go up to meet Jesus & then come back with him in glorified bodies, who repopulates the earth to rebel at the end of the 1000 year reign. (Matt 25:31-46).
I'm post-trib/pre-wrath but I hope I'm wrong. I hope it's pre-trib.
I believe in the First And Second Coming
They overcame him by The Blood of The Lamb by The Word of Their testimony and They loved not their lives to the death! We need to be ready for all three not just the first two! Also, how many times does it say in The Revelation of Jesus, “this calls for the perseverance of the saints! If all the saints are gone, why is there a need for the perseverance of the saints! Also the great tribulation according to The Book of Revelation comes after the 7th Trumpet! Respectfully submitted!
They don't pay attention to the Word.... but allow others to inject their own thoughts into God's Word and twist or hide the plain truths...
"For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. **And the dead in Christ will RISE FIRST.** Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words." {1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 ESV}
This speaks about the 1st resurrection... which happens when? At the 2nd Coming of the LORD Jesus with all the Saints who have (what?) fallen asleep (v.14)
"(4b)...They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (5)The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection." {Revelation 20:4b-5 ESV}
The 1st Resurrection happens AFTER Jesus Returns and cast the devil into the bottomless pit for a thousand years, but BEFORE the Thousand years begins.
We also WILL NOT PROCEED those who have fallen asleep BEFORE US, but THEY SHALL RISE FIRST (1st Resurrection) Compare Rev. 20:4-5 and 1 Thes. 4:16-17
""**Imediately after the tribulation of those days** the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. **Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man**, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. **And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.**" {Matthew 24:29-31 ESV}
Everybody says Gog and Magog but isn’t it really Gog OF Magog ???
It’s uncomfortable that the man with white hair can’t make eye contact
It is my understanding that person's with autism or Asperger's have difficulty looking people in the eye but he's very articulate and knows his stuff
The Blessed Hope is the 2nd Coming.
The Bible tells us that we should comfort one another but I would not be very comfortable if the Bible said that me the bride is going to have to go through 7 years of facing the the wrath of God that's not very comforting to me and all these little children would definitely not have to go through 7 years of the wrath of God so therefore I believe in the in the pre-tribulation rapture all the way and also the rapture is for an appointed time unlike most creatures teach today that is imminent that it can happen at any time but we still haven't seen the Holy Spirit poured out on All flesh yet and in the book of James chapter 5 verse 7 but when that comes to pass buckle up my friends
👍 ❤
We are to occupy until he comes.
Amen Pearl! Blessings!
Keep the Feasts of the Lord by the Spirit once for all time becoming a Temple Made without Hands 🎉😮
👍
🙌❤️🙏🏻
Why would pastor Lee think Jesus would beat up his bride before the marriage supper of the lamb.
Amen!
Many of the first Christians had to die violently for their faith. He allowed that. Even today, Christians are jailed, tortured, and killed in areas of Africa, the Middle East, China, India, etc. The Bible says that we will suffer for His sake. We haven’t experienced these things in the USA but they happen everyday.
Rev 8:5 7th seal at 2nd coming, Rev 11:18 7th trumpet at 2nd coming, Rev 16:18 7th vial at 2nd coming. Chapterrs Rev 12-14 ending at 2nd coming end of 14th chapter two raptures believers- non-believers.1st resurrection 20:5., 20:4 believers beheaded refused to worship the mark of the beast.
If the pre-tribulation rapture does not occur, but rather a mid or post trib rapture, then folks faith may be shaken if the Anti- Christ appears and the 7 yrs of tribulation begin. We have to be ready for however the End Times work out.. keeping our eyes on our Lord Jesus. The Lord can protect the Church from His wrath on the ungodly, like Israel was protected from the 10 plagues on Egypt. Come Lord Jesus.
Minute 14:20 The _Wrath of God_ or the " _the great winepress of the wrath of God_ " is at Revelation 14:18. I'm not saying Revelation is chronological, but notice the context of Revelation 14:18's Wrath of God. Notice what is immediately prior.... " _the earth was reaped_ ." (the Fullness of Romans 11:25?) The _Wrath_ is likely the 2nd half of the Tribulation, at the Abomination of Desolation, the _Great_ Tribulation, and 3.5 years not necessarily 7.
Neither eel or bay
Oil represents spirit!!!
❤🥰
Joni... "speaks of the seven year tribulation as the 'wrath of the lamb'....
Not so fast.... The scriptures do NOT tell us that the seven year great tribulation is the wrath of God.
If we are not appointed to wrath, then why is it very very clear in prophecy that we WILL be here during tribulation and see the antichrist and have great resistance, etc.
Yes, this verse says people cry out 'hide us from the wrath of the Lamb'....
1. The people are afraid that the great day of wrath has come... But, in no way are we told that this is the seven vials of God's wrath being poured upon the earth.
2. In the very next verse, the Scriptures use the term 'their wrath'.... Plural... As in the Father and Christ Jesus together. The wrath of GOD.
Tribulation is NOT wrath.
People have always said 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling'.
IN NO WAY ARE WE TOLD, SPECIFICALLY, THAT THE GREAT TRIBULATION IS "THE WRATH OF THE LAMB".
We know that, since Christ came, the wrath of God is currently being withheld in long-suffering UNTIL AFTER THOSE DAYS, the great tribulation.
None of you ever discussed your question
Its neither it will be pre wrath.
Read the entire Bible, Old and New Testament, which testifies about the loving and saving nature of God from the wrath to come. Jesus will come back on air to take us up to heaven before the antichrist will be revealed. Then, we'll come back with him at the end of the 7 years of tribulation. It is 100% Truth. Doubting in the pre-tribulation Rapture is negating the true nature of God.
I suggest that you listen to your own advice, and search the Scriptures and seek TRUTH.
What you have posted is incorrect.
What is needed here is DISCERNMENT.
Tribulation is NOT wrath.... Tribulation is NOT wrath.
Yes, we are promised to be saved from 'the wrath to come'.... Do not be confused. The tribulation is NOT wrath.
We are never promised to escape tribulation. We are called to REJOICE AND PERSEVERE/ENDURE in tribulation.
We are 'saved', and are promised that we will not see WRATH. But there has always been tribulation. TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
We WILL be here and see the antichrist. Those who PERSEVERE/ENDURE UNTIL THE END, and who do not accept the mark of the beast shall be saved.
You talk about being saved...
As it was in the days of Noah and of Sodom and Gommorah... In both these prophetic examples, God, himself, brings these families to safety from "wrath and destruction", AT THE VERY LAST MOMENT.
If you truly want to open your heart and mind and seek HIS TRUTH, you might want to look at my post below. There is full explanation and Scriptural reference that shows NO CONFUSION.
Amen!! 100 percent!
Pretrib based on a young woman’s dream promoted by John Darby
This EXACT same conversation could have happened at least five times in the last 150 years.
Maybe, just maybe, dispensational doctrine itself should come under greater scrutiny.
It’s a house of cards, built on a poor set of presuppositions.
1948 + 80 year generation = 2028 -7 year trib = 2021
Missed the pe-trib rapture...
It means a lot to see someone who sill speak the (unpopular) TRUTH!
And, that many here are also speaking and supporting the truth of a post-tribulation, PRE WRATH, 'rapture'.
Which, of course, occurs at Christ's COMING!!!!
AMEN!!!!
Why would Christ beat up His bride before the marriage supper of the lamb
@@JSDolly-qc4bh He doesn’t. ✝️🙏🏻🩸❤️Tribulation and the 7 year Tribulation are the two big and distinctive differences here. In fact, The Last 3.5 years
of the tribulation mentioned in the NT are named…The great tribulation. You will find most Christian’s who do not believe that Christ is revealing His Coming in the clouds to snatch the church out of this world are either afraid, and not prepared today truly. God says it will look exactly like the time before the great flood.
@@michaelschaffran3948 the whole 7 years will be tribulation/wrath of God. Everyday tribulation is at the hands of evil people. There’s a difference. God doesn’t cause the tribulation we all face daily and He will take His bride out of here before He starts His wrath and that’s the whole 7 years. If you’re a true believer in His finished work on the cross and have accepted Him as your Lord and savior I’ll meet you up there before THE TRIBULATION begins.
@@JSDolly-qc4bh Matthew 1-2. Jesus Christ is The One✝️🙏🏻🩸❤️.
Merry Christmas 🙂
@@JSDolly-qc4bh I am with you in spirit. I am a Protestant Christian pastor.
Jesus has guided me to His Truth. Amen. Merry Christmas.
But doesn’t the two witnesses who lie in the streets dead 3.5 days then raised to life and called up sound like the dead in Christ rise first ?
Because it is.
When the 2 witnesses are called up, that's the 1st resurrection and rapture of the dead in Christ 1st, then we who are alive and remain. It's not about knowing the day or the hour but the event.
That's at the end of the tribulation just before the wrath of God
Rev 4:1 Come up hither after that hell for people
Wrath of God does not come until Rev18 :8 Plagues come in one day.This is the last chapter of the great trib. Chap.19 is marriage feast and Jesus puts us on white horses.
Jesus is coming 🔜. But wait, soon has already come and gone… Soon in Gods time line is different because in his mind Jesus has only been gone two days. So soon is going to make sense in eternity. As I look back on the last ten years, I think, where did the time go? Keep everything in the right perspective. But for those of you wanting to know a time frame, it would seem fitting that Jesus could return as soon as this coming Easter of 2024. The Lord is not being slow as we tend to think, but merciful waiting on people to make up their mind!
Minute 22:30, If the Rapture and 2nd Coming are the same thing and if the 2nd Coming is Jesus coming back to earth, then what door is shut to those foolish virgins of Matthew 25 ❓ Makes no sense unless two separate events. " _Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; HIDE yourself, as it were, for a little moment, UNTIL the indignation is past_ ."
The door 🚪 that's opened to the church of Philadelphia.
@@wjdyr6261 Amen! =)
That Matthew 25 : 1 too 13 is about the rapture and the marriage super the 5 wise virgins went into the marriage and the 5 unwise virgins are the ones left behind to go through the 7 years of tribulation time. Revelation is telling us what is going to happen in the future during the 7 years of tribulation.
There is a LOT of assumption in your post.
Not a lot of clear truth.
@@princesssweetpea9205 Ok if there is a lot of assumption Please tell me where (?) So I can explain it. I do take it and believe it for what it says. Have you read Matthew 25 : 1 to 13 ?
No - the wise virgins parable refers back to Matthew 24:29-31 when Jesus comes AFTER the tribulation.
@@princesssweetpea9205 I know one thing you are wrong on the Assumption IS NOT in what I Post. The Bible is True and your Assumption leads me to think You need Jesus in your Heart, I Know what Matthew 25 : 1 to 13 means. Do you know the meaning of those 13 verses ? Do you want me to tell you what it means ? I use the KJV Bible and God's Holy Word Is Truth, there is NO LIE in His Word.
@@MamaNewGuinea I have heard people say that way, If what you are saying is right (?) I am wondering on something, where did the 5 wise go ? They had to go some where, and in verse 10 it says they went into the marriage, ( rapture ) supper. The 5 unwise have to go through the 7 years of tribulation. It is about the church half the church people are ready to go the other half isn't ready to go, they are not looking for Jesus or living for Him. Remember the unwise are outside knocking on the door wanting in, they cannot get in because the door is shut. Matthew 24 : 29 - 31 does happen, just like it is written ( says ). Jesus has his angels to go Just like verse 31 says. We the wise are doing and living right for Jesus and we are looking for Him to come at any time. Remember In the rapture Jesus doesn't send his angels, we go to Meet Jesus in the air the dead in Christ rise first then we are caught up to meet Jesus in the air.
The letters ✉️ to the 7 churches are judgments during the 7 yrs. Those believers or churches are judged and threatened with tribulation, great tribulation and Jesus coming as a thief.
Judgment begins at the house of God. The world can't be judged until it begins at the church.
When the 2 witnesses are called up, that's the 1st resurrection and rapture of the dead in Christ 1st, then we who are alive and remain. It's not about knowing the day or the hour but the event.
The entire 7 yrs is not the tribulation nor the wrath of God. The 2d half is tribulation and the wrath of Satan. Only the vials are specifically called the wrath of God. The seals and trumpets 🎺 are not the wrath of God.
I feel like it post tribulation, I struggle everyday... I wrote a message of Daniel to the churches in the Orthodox diocease.. In book of Daniel the 1290 days in the end I likened it to 2020 until now.... the actual day it fell on was Rashoshonna... blessed are those that wait and remain until 1335th day.... The diocese also brought up in service where Jesus speaks from Daniel.... the last 3 years have been hell... for me... and there are people all over the world in the struggle.. again I'm post tribulation because I believe we are already in trials and tribulations..
The scoffers, during the pandemic instacart tried to pay me a dollar fifty an hour, days wages for a loaf of bread and a quart of barley? I had 4 preditorial job offers scaming for money and social security numbers... online only..... the fact that instacart went on the market in a time of need just before the 2020 February shut down of the world asks the question did they know this was going to happen... plandemic.... in Daniel "when the whole awful thing was set up to worship"....
I lost my father to medical world which also absorbed his estate.... try surviving on 5500 dollars in a fiscal year... you don't..... I've had my food stamps cut, attempts on my life.... family turn on me... life's hard ...
Post trib makes no sense at all it’s the yo-yo theory ! I was raised pre trib but pre or mid makes sense not post toastees
Did Joni get married again?
As long as you are trying to figure out the end times
With with the format that you are using you will never know what really is. There is no end there is no rapture. There is only God in his people forever.
No Rapture People 😮
It's Better 🎉
Birthing the Man Child 🎉
The Christ in You the Hope of Glory comes to the outside full grown 🎉
The Spirit of God is in YOU 🎉
The WORD is written on your hearts 🥰
sABBAth with Daddy 24-7 ❤
YOU are a LIVING ARK OF THE COVENANT 🔥
A TEMPLE MADE WITHOUT HANDS ❤️
A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD 🎉
A LIVING ARK OF THE COVENANT 🔥
CHERUBIM R US 🔥🔨
Awake Awake 🎉
MUST be BORN Again 😮
Post trib is scriptural. Pre trib will ruin the faith of many when they realize the didn't escape the day of the lord. Blessed is he who does in the lord from now on.
AMEN
Lance Wallnau: The kingdom of God is crushing the kingdom of darkness. i.e.: Things are getting better and better.
Well, I guess Jesus just didn't know what he was talking about.
Kingdom now doctrin or dominionist doctrine requires a certain amount of delusion. Do you really think things are getting better and better? Paul and Jesus both say things are gonna get worse and worse. In the last days there were be perilous times. Contextually, perilous translates to "raging insanity".
I'm getting weary of people saying that unity can come at the expense of truth. What is it gonna do to weak Christians if the 7 mind molders aren't taken over by Christians. This doctrine is a deal breaker! At least the post tribulationist with the beard was honest about his position. But lance wallnau and the guy with the white hair kept tap dancing around the issue. You never hear lance wallnau come out and claim that he's a dominionist kingdom now person.
I can see how pre-mid and postrib Christians can find unity. But to teach the world is gonna get better and better until Jesus looks at it and says okay I'm coming down now is dangerous.
Lance can still preach this doctrine after the rapture! NAR is absolutely a doctrine of demons!
There is more than one Rapture event , that is why the Word is confusing when you try to apply them to one event , does not make sense . Prayers
We can know the "TIME" by lookin to the Fests, just not the exact day nor hour. Each New Moon only God knew when it would come in, it had to be 100 percent pitch black. So, it went in phases. That is what Jesus is referring unto, you can't know the exact day nor hour, but we of course will know the SEASON just like Israel did, the sent two men up into the hills to spy out what day it would come in on. It could happen over usually a 2 day period, sometimes a 3 day period, after sunrise you have to wait for the darkness to fall. Why do we take this quote and not use it in context of the 7 Feasts? WE CAN KNOW, WE CANT KNOW, lol, yes we can, just not the exact day nor hour which is Jess saying the Feast of Trumps has to be in the Fall, and since we know the Middle of the 70th week has an Asteroid Impact in the middle of the week (Apophis April 13, 2029) by taking 3.5 years off that we get a Rapture in the Fall of 2025. NOW.........I will get but, but, but you gave a time, Jesus said that WREONG..............No, I gave a season and a year, not a DAY..........NOR........Hour. The Jews knew within 2 or 3 days, we WILL KNOW the Season, just nor the exact day nor hour.
I don’t mean to argue are bring discord my brother and sisters. However. The statement Joni makes at around 14:30 saying; the tribulation period is the “wrath of the Lamb” is scripturally incorrect. The “wrath of the Lamb” is the same as “The Day of The Lord (Mal 3:2, 4:5 and 1 Thess 5:2 and vs 3!” And that happens when Jesus Second Coming when He descends from Heaven with the shout of the Archangel, with the last “trump of God?”
That my friends, bros and sisters is the Day of Judgment, the Day of the Lord and the Wrath of the Lamb (all one event, the Rapture) will all happen in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, 1 Cor 15:51-58, it’s all there in the holy scriptures! But you must let the scriptures interpret themselves to you!
Not be persuaded by the personal opinions or even the personal convictions of your Pastor, Sunday school teacher, Preacher, Evangelist or whoever!
Remember. The first words that came out of Jesus mouth when His disciples asked him what will be the signs of your coming? Was. “LET NO ONE/NO MAN DECEIVE YOU!”
And besides. Jesus told us in Matt 24:29; Immediately after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened etc..
And, then will appear the Son of Man in heaven!
It’s all right there! All right before our eyes! He was telling us (the generation that would be alive in the end of days the season and what signs to watch for right before His Second Coming and the great catching away of His Elect (His Bride, His Church, His Saints, His devout followers! Christians that would still be on the earth!)
So. The great tribulation period is the “wrath of Satan against the persecuted Church of Jesus Christ who will be still here on the earth, Rev 12:12.
The great tribulation is the “wrath of Satan,” Not the wrath of the Lamb!
If you don't believe in the rapture taking place before the Tribulation I still love you as a brother or sister in Christ and pray for you. Please consider this - in the Bible God teaches by example. Even Christ used stories as examples. He used examples of fishing and sowing seed etc. So do we find examples of the rapture in the Bible? I believe we do.
Elijah was taken away before the flood came. Noah and his family were lifted up above the destruction that took place in the flood. Rahab was taken out before Jericho was destroyed. Lot and his family were taken out before the fire fell on Sodom.
Those all seem to me to be examples of the Church being lifted up and taken out before the destruction of the Tribulation comes. Read Mark chapter 13 where Jesus tells us when the Tribulation begins.
LOL Wallnau. A bunch of gobbly goop! He has "no patience with Christians who are withdrawing from the world in order to go to heaven"! Wow, "that might be the best way not to qualify"? HUH??? Where do I even begin with this? Heretic! I agree with you, you are definitely going DEEPER into the world everyday!
Matthew 24:36 says. But of that day and hour no one knows. Not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only. In my opinion, only a Pre-Trib Rapture would fit this verse. If the Rapture was Mid-Trib, then you would know that when the antichrist makes his debut, which starts the Great Tribulation. 3 and a half years later, the Rapture would take place. If the Rapture was Post-Trib, then you would know that 7 years after the first seal is broken, and the man of sin comes on the scene. The Rapture would take place.
What to believe to go to heaven !! : Realize you are a sinner being sorry. Sin is lying, evil thoughts, lust, etc.Therefore, do not trust in your own works to go to heaven because you realize, being a sinner, you cannot offer the perfect blood sacrifice that God requires to pay for sin. Instead, believe, meaning fully trust, that in Christ's love for you, on the cross, His one perfect blood sacrifice; when Christ bled, suffered and died, in your place, paid for your sins in full, past, present and future ! Believe that Jesus rose from the dead ! Believe Jesus is God Almighty, God the Son, alive for evermore ! And believe that the sinless blood of Jesus Christ is what cleanses you from all sin, which purifies your soul ! Then the Lord Jesus will forgive you, save you from hell and give you eternal life, and you will be sealed with the Holy Spirit who will dwell within you forever ! And thank Jesus ! Rom.3:25,5:8,9,10:9, Rev.1:5, Ephes.1:7,13, 4:30, Heb.10:10-14,19,38,39,I John 5:7,13,20