Famous People in History Who Were ACTUALLY Gay
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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"Michelangelo Buonarroti, sculptor, painter, and poet who lived between the 1400s and 1500s, is probably the undisputed protagonist of the Italian Renaissance. His most famous works, such as David, the Pietà, and the Last Judgment, are immortal cornerstones of art history.
Born in Caprese, Tuscany, Michelangelo grew up in Florence where he had the opportunity to study under the guidance of eminent artists of the time and immerse himself in humanistic culture, thanks in particular to an invitation from Lorenzo de' Medici. In this context, Michelangelo was introduced to classical art, which profoundly influenced his style and conception of art. Moreover, he had the chance to study with some of the greatest intellectuals of the Renaissance, such as the Neoplatonic philosopher Marsilio Ficino and the poet Angelo Poliziano.
After Lorenzo de' Medici's death in 1492, Michelangelo continued to work in Florence, under the patronage of other important families, like the Borgias. In 1496, he moved to Rome, where he created some of his main works, such as the frescoes of the Sistine Chapel.
Much has been written about Michelangelo's sexuality, starting from his way of depicting male nudes, and some art critics believe that even when he painted women, he used male models as references. This hypothesis is supported by the physical appearance of the women in the Sistine Chapel ceiling, with their robust and muscular build and vigorous arms
JEAN II OF ORLEANS
In 1098, in Orléans, the appointment of a rather extraordinary character as bishop was ratified, sparking reactions from the clergy, who were divided between spite and hilarity. Jean II, nephew of the Cluniac abbot Suger of Saint-Denis and already archdeacon of Tours, ascended to the episcopal see of Orléans. Jean II's investiture, regardless of his illustrious kinship, had little religious and much political motivation: it was strongly desired by Philip I, King of France.
The latter, living in concubinage since 1092 with the legitimate wife of Fulk IV Réchin, Bertrade of Anjou, had been vehemently denounced by the episcopate and excommunicated in 1094. To avoid total isolation from the clergy, the king had sought allies everywhere and found one in Jean II, a very young and easily manipulable ecclesiastic. Although Jean II's exact age at the time of his investiture is not known, it's clear from the sources that he was not yet 30 years old, and therefore decidedly too young to be a bishop. His investiture, which took place on December 28, the third day of what was known as the "Feast of the Innocents" or "Feast of Fools," lent itself to scathing criticism.
The "Feast of the Innocents" was a sort of carnival that derived directly from the celebrations of the Roman Saturnalia, and on this occasion it was customary to choose a young prelate and dress him in fake episcopal vestments, naming him "Episcopus stultorum" and having him parody the figure of the bishop. The election was thus taken as a joke by the canons, indirectly humiliating the decision of royal power in full legitimacy crisis.
Another reason that triggered the clergy's reaction was that Jean II was known for his licentious conduct and for being openly homosexual, so much so that he had earned the nickname "Flora." "Flora" was an ancient deity of pagan Rome, patron of buds, to whom the Romans had dedicated the Floralia festival, from April 28 to May 3. To discourage her cult, for denigrating purposes, the 3rd-century AD Christian writer Lactantius had argued that Flora was originally a prostitute, and that the Romans had instituted the festivals in her honor to thank her for having bequeathed her.
#metatron #lgbtq #realhistory
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Hi
Do they deliver to Poland yet? I'd love to try them out!
So Michaelangelo was a legendary artist, gay, AND a Ninja Turtle??
A true Rennaissance Man!
Ninja turtle?
@@waynewatts8736 teenage mutant ninja turtles. brudda with the orange headband is called Michaelangelo.
@@SuperDuperMan-v8y ok I get the analogy 😂
🤣Brilliant comment! 👍
🤣😂🤣😂
Metatron, one of the few people i would trust in this subject, and to not claim every same sex friendship of the past was gay.
I really appreciate that. Yes we don't care who sleeps with who but we are interested in the human experience in period, from an anthropological perspective.
There are a lot of sources on this matter and it is fascinating to see how for instance the clergy and the authorities reacted to a case of a bishop who was gay but also had connections. There is a lot that can be learnt through this subject.
I get it that people will get all emotional about it and get mad but as you know considering all the debunking I've done, we are not pushing political agendas we are showing the truth via the sources.
I'd rather leave this topic to the likes of me, since you know I'll tell it how it is, rather than leaving it in the hands of the activists who will twist it.
@@metatronyt Twist what how?!? There are LGBTQ people, there always have been, and they are not responsible for evil in the world AND they deserve the same rights as you or I....It really is that simple. You get to be told by your culture, school, media that you are perfectly normal in your desires regarding consenting adults and that is all anyone else wants. I really don't get the problem! Unless one follows a dogma, which, by it's very definition, is surely the most corrosive substance known to man, as no matter whether it is political ideological or religious in nature, all dogma promotes unquestioning, ignorant obedience as a moral good. This outlook will prime you for manipulation by any dark triad personality seeking your mental slavery.
@@metatronyt feels good to have people focus on facts, the extremes as far too noisy from homophobes who believe homosexuality was invented in 2005 and chemically induced by satan to people fighting to have litteral walls or questionable characters be gay icons
what do you think about Sandro Botticelli ? and his " not fit ground for planting vines " comment from Tommaso Soderini
I trust him to explain Lord of the Rings.
@metatronyt you did claim that Alexander the Great had a non clear sezuality though. Even though he got married to three women (he got married to another woman while still being married to Roxane), him sleeping with female concubines in his tent, him having at least one heir, and him refusing and being offended when presented with the oportunity to sleep with a young man/boy by the Persians. Despite all this you claimed he had an unclear sezuality.. because he had a male friend or something and was sad when he died? Most people are devastated if they lose a friend, does that mean they had romantic feelings for them? Really now? Oooook. Edit: I watched your video once more, I realise I forgot you did address that him and his friend were not lovers but you did make the mistake of translations of terms ans not taking into account the laws and attitudes of the ancient greeks who did not at all accept homos. to the point of having brutal laws against it and very insulting words regarding such acts.
Metatron after making extremists rage left, right and center: I'll fokin do it again
I piss them all off because people are all about their feelings and not about the facts. I say facts over feelings whether it offends far left or far right. The truth is the truth.
@@metatronytYou are still religious. Which is hilarious in the context of trying to be objective. You follow a scripture and a god who's cosmology and history is completely fabricated and biased. You claim to be objective and outside of the current political sphere's of influence yet you subscribe to the most easily debunked and morally bankrupt ideology on the planet. When speaking about religion. Why not bring up the Borgias?
@@calus7958 What are you doing out of Reddit? Shoo Shoo back to the pit with you.
@@williamjenkins4913 Exactly, All you can do is the same tired Reddit meme. You can't actually refute anything I say.
@@calus7958 He can follow religion for spiritual purposes, and mantain a more objective view when it comes to research and historical analisis. It's not that hard to understand really
I don’t like it when historians assume a man from history was gay simply because they remained single for most of their life. Perhaps they just didn’t find anyone to settle down with. Perhaps they were too busy with their work. Perhaps they kept getting rejected. There are many other alternatives other than being gay.
True and maybe they just want to die alone and live alone. Depression, loneliness, overworking, unstable financial life, and etc factors can lose a person motivation to do things in life and not aim for that “expected” goal.
And one more thing it does bother me that people who assume these things have forgotten that disabilities can make it impossible or hard to interact with people and build those relationships.
As an asexual person myself: maybe they just didn't want to. (agreeing)
It really depends on When and Who the person was. rather his class mattered and it wasn't really a choice or circumstances like in our time. the noble class (and the church later) often dictated a certain way of life, i.e. producing a heir if it's royalty. and the marriage wasn't always a choice, but a social construct for them. fixed marriages took place so even the ugly could have a spouse. like Meta said, in Rome they didn't care care if a youth fools around with men, so long he provides a legitimate offspring.
so it wouldn't be weird if historians reviewed a life of solitude of a notable person and wonder 'what went wrong there', though, not sure how often they'd 'slap' them with gay, but certainly look into it.
and just like with Ed II, it wouldn't even matter if he's gay. still had to marry and form a legal bond. so the opposite in not true as well in this aspect anyway.
gotta look at history through the eyes of then society, not project modern approach and reasons.
Everyone of any historical significance had AIDS…
The End.
Imagine many centuries from now, and people are debating if John Travolta was gay or not 😂
He was in grease
I rest my case
@@nodot17 valid argument. Contemporaries then and now prove that we've had an unchanged "gaydar" for centuries, if not millennia
If they watch that South Park episode they will def think yes.
People do that now...
Ive already met someone eho refused to believe Freddy Mercury was gay so it wouldn't surprise me if that question was only decades away 😂
Fun fact: Santa Clause was gay, in the historical sense of the word. He was a very jolly old fellow😂
He's dead! 😮
Ya the wife was a dead giveaway 😄
@@valandil7454Santa is giving away his dead wife now? Wouldn't want to be THAT kid when he opens the biggest box on Christmas morning...
am i the weirdo for not obsessing over what people do in their bedroom ?
No one is here as I explained in the disclaimer.
No, neither do I, but I get annoyed when I hear people pretend there was no homosexuality in the past.
Nope, that’s what you should think. This video is just kind of goofy fun
Oh you're a weirdo alright… but not for that
@@englishguy9680 takes one to know one? :) XX
Emperor Hadrian was so gay his boyfriend became a god
Not his boyfriend. Use “imperial favorite.” Or favorite victim; the boy did die when he was 18.
I think that last bust that was put up by Metatron was actually a bust of Hadrian’s paramour, Antinous. Surprised he wasn’t mentioned.
Yes he was gay but he was also a pdf file hence why he shouldn't be made a gay icon.😂
Wasn’t his boyfriend a boy as in Hadrian was a PDF
@@jaybee9269 Antinous was as good as a paramour. Hadrian was married, but no kids and Hadrian never stayed very long in Rome. Antinous drowned in the Nile and Hadrian was heartbroken, putting up more statues and temples to the kid, than those for the Emperors.
Metatron when reading sources: I saw gay so I said gay, that’s not an agenda that was an astute observation!
(Boondocks if you don’t get the reference lol)
Truly great show 😂
I'm sure many historical figures were gay; there's nothing about homosexuality that either excludes nor encourages genius. What I find annoying, however, is when modern people slap the "gay" label on historic figures as a way to legitimize and promote an agenda.
what blows my mind is why dose it matter who they where sexually attracted to why are thees people so obsessed whit who they want to bang
Christianity has a pretty strong agenda in the West to make sure no one is gay. The Christian agenda also revised history and castrated tons of art throughout history to reinforce that agenda. The dominant culture tries to erase gay people from history or erase the fact a historical person was gay if the person is too well known. Many people laud Alan Turing for his effort in WWII and aiding victory for the Allies. Few people go on to detail how he was then prosecuted by the British government for being gay, forcibly castrated and subsequently committed suicide.
There's also a major agenda on the other side which says that being gay is "unnatural" or that being gay is something "new" in history, only to be found in cultures that fell to "decadence" - but it's not true. Gay people have made major contributions to global history and culture and if "traditional families" are going to be so heavily promoted as "the corner stone of civilization" then it's fair to note the non-traditional people who changed history as well.
As a queer/ questioning person, it annoys me a lot too. There's a big difference between what we actually went through historically, and what is promoted by, well, the promoters. And I wish we would talk about it more realistically. Straight people tend to try and deny/minimize it, and queer folks want to say everyone cool was also gay, now is any of that really necessary? Lol
Instead understanding sexuality isn't a characteristic that imparts ability but merely an idiom of personality.
@@FireflowerDancerMaybe Historically straight people (a term invented by gay people or what you now call queer which I think refers largely to boring ppl with no personality who vaguely had a crush on someone their same sex once often requiring zero personality) tried to hush up things but in 2024 that's certainly not the case.
I agree with the thrust of your argument but honestly rumours of being gay were pretty commonly pushed by enemies
This is why I enjoy your content so much. You never come across as punching down at these constructs, only looking for the truth in the narratives. Great video as always!
Glad you enjoy it and thanks!
Metatron's term 'Longshark' is SO much better than 'Longshanks' 😁
Nah, Sharks are cool. Eddie was just lanky (Longshanks-Long legs)
I was thinking "have I been pronouncing it wrong all this time". He is a linguist after all.
Sapho was straight or lesbian? I don't bi either argument!
straight
@@Pontheon. You do know that was a joke and not a misspelling?
@@markfeldhaus1 😂😂😂
"Actually... GAY"
*ominous sound*
This was a fun video thanks Metatron and team!
Went to a Michaelangelo exhibit, one of the volunteers suggested he probably was gay then pointed out the difference between his depictions of men vs. women...he painted women like he'd never seen one 😂 Delicious video thanks Raf!
I just took a peek. Omg you're right. They sure did not mention this detail in high school AP art! 😅
@@FireflowerDancer Did you take a peek at photos of his paintings of women (especially in Capella Sistina) or his sculptures of nude women?
@@BlackQback Both, actually. Why do you ask?
@@FireflowerDancer Actually, they did not need to: we pointed to this ourselves andd the teacher laughed: "yes, it does make one wonder." We all got it. The year? 1972, France.
M’s women look like men
That was refreshing! There was so much debunking, it's nice to see this the other way around, put in context and backed by facts.
I'm glad to hear that thanks.
I believe the reasons so many of us react with so much passion and feeling over this topic is that so many of us have been insulted and hurt over the years for our preferred choice of sexual encountoers. Tt is nice and refreshing to see actual historical people mentioned via facts. The pendulum tends to swing too much in both ways, as in people claim everyone is /was gay or that no one was. Thank you from Finland, Metatron and hope you have a wonderful day.
I appreciate that thank you.
Wait Michelangelo is more of a main character than Leonardo da Vinci during the renaissance?
Michelangelo had major commissions from the pope, he was basically the Pope’s artist. So Michelangelo was a big deal, basically the guy producing top budget Hollywood blockbusters but also smart films.
Da Vinci was the guy struggling to self-fund indie projects, occasionally finding a mid-size backer, then losing that backer because he worked too slowly, that is now remembered fondly because his stuff was brilliant.
@@annekeener4119 ahhhhh ok ok very true didn’t think of it like that.
@@annekeener4119 >> Da Vinci to a tee!😂
Same, I thought da Vinci was undisputed
the ninja turtles have taught you wrong : P
Thank you. People who say this or this was not gay or lesbian even when all evidence shows to the contrary are as obnoxious as people who do the opposite. I mean there are some who believe that there was no homosexuality in ancient or medieval era.
Exactly. It's facts over feelings. People get too emotional about these topics and their critical thinking goes out the window.
@@metatronytI agree 110%! Thanks for this.
@@metatronytJust on a side note- sometime, can we talk about how Queen Hatsepshut was not queer or trans just because she wore a beard? That particular leftist claim really 'gets my goat,' not sure why lol🎉🎉
If homosexuality never existed then why is it a sin? Some people don't think long enough about the logic of their opinion.
@@yolkonut6851 Plenty of third gender societies claim it wasn't a thing either. Almost like the third gender covered it up...
I would add as well, the purported way Edward II was killed (hot poker in the bum) would also suggest he was homosexual, and the method was chosen to mock him. Even if he were killed a different way, the story's spread would reflect that the belief was common.
I dunno about that it sounds like a pretty nasty way to kill someone it doesn't have to suggest homosexuality or homophobia, we still use the colloquialism "you're such a pain in the ar*&se" and we've never meant it like that
Along with the portrayal of him in some quarters as a weakling, this legend undermines his authority as a monarch. From that perspective the truth is a byline to the machinations of propaganda. It worked then, it influences some still.
The method of execution is unlikely as the rumour didn't begin until many years after his death. That's straight from the mouth of Berkerly Castles own historian.
Pretty the poker in the bum was Lord Darnley father of James I of England although that's more conjecture than fact, Edward II was most likely starved to death.
Actually we don't know when Edward II died, much less how he died. He certainly was not accused of homosexuality by the nobles who were opposing his close friends. Considering a king had no privacy they certainly would have known if he was. Edward III certainly considered the possibility that his father could still be alive since we still have a letter he received stating Edward II was alive in Italy.
Benvenuto Cellini's autobiography mentions going to an artists party to celebrate the end of the "french disease" in Rome, he didn't have a date to bring so he dressed the boy next door up as a girl and took him. He says Michelangelo spent all evening telling the boy how he was the most beautiful woman in the whole world. It's pretty funny he's trying to laugh about Michelangelo when he was the one fined for keeping one of his apprentices as a "wife". He was also tried in france for using a woman "after the italian fashion", which is an amusing euphemism.
It's a very interesting book with lots of details about renaissance italy, he's also totally unstable and always getting into fights which he believes are never his fault because he's a hero of peerless achievement.
I was just thinking about Cellini myself since I loved History On Fire's episode on him.
Am I the only one who went weak at the knees over the Italian poetry?
And people claim French is more romantic! Bah!
Maybe you should start squatting and consuming more calcium
They weren't gay.
They were bachelors, doing bachelor things.
The evidence appears to indicate otherwise. Thanks
@@metatronyt I think the comment was a joke
@@LightKnight_Age_Ofwhat makes you think that? Looks like a legit comment to me. What I mean is nothing in this comment is indicating a joke to me.
@@metatronyt It was a silly joke.
Bachelor is a term we used to describe and protect individuals.
It might just be something we say in US though.
I love the video by the way.
@@jamesoshea580 Well, it's just like what the one writing the comment says, they wrote a 2nd comment.
My favorite "probably was gay" historical figure was Frederick The Great of Prussia. I love how on the one hand he was a conservative, shrewd and ruthless politician and military leader in Berlin and on the battlefield, but at his palace of Sans Soussi he was a bohemian socialite and artist, while probably having a gay old time with other his artist friends.
He only survived because some idiot Russian emperor was a Prussian simp
*Souci.
Is that even a probably?
This is how you know you can most probably trust anyone talking about a topic: If one takes a neutral point and just talks about facts, highlighting as many sides of the matter as possible while being honest and open about possible biases.
Thanks Metatron for yet another great informative video.
Dam good video as usual.
I appreciate that, thanks.
“Mr. Prick from the Island of Man” has got to be one of the single best names I’ve ever heard 😂
Also, yes! Please make more on this series, it’s very interesting!
He's the first cousin of Mr. Douche from the Virgin Islands
Thank you for making this video, Metatron. I wonder if Netflix is going to make an actual documentary about any of these people... but I'm not holding my breath.
Better to keep Netflix out of it. Some two decades ago, I would've still trusted BBC with such documentaries, but not any more.
The one who surprised me the most is Richard Lionheart. The guy had to accuse himself publicly of sodomy to get the pardon of the church.
The meaning of the word gay changed quite recently. And it's Longshanks as in rhymes with planks. :)
I agree things keep changing which is why it's important to always frame discussions about the past in their correct period context.
@@metatronyt Very interesting video sir!
A movie about Michelangelo as a closeted gay man would be unironically good imo.
Also, I'm kind of shocked that DaVinci didn't come up in this video because there is quite a lot of evidence he was probably gay
In the movie Sin (“il peccato”) there’s one scene where one apprentice is crying of jealousy. It was shown as something normal, not as closeted or anything.
Mi fa piacere sentirti parlare italiano di tanto in tanto! Mi è piaciuto molto come hai letto l'epitaffio e le lettere. Tra l'altro, mi sto abituando fin troppo ad avere ogni giorno un tuo video da guardare, mi mancheranno questi video giornalieri quando tornerai alla schedule ordinaria haha
Excellent and interesting video.
Many thanks
Hello Fresh ought to give you a bonus. You made me sorry I don’t live in the continental US because that looked really good.
It’s okay to be Anglo Saxon
I agree (?)
@@metatronyt Bassato
@metatronyt it's a racist dog whistle don't acknowledge it.
England is a *Norman* country!
Who is bro talking to? 😭
As a gay man, the reason why some queer people try so hard to impose modernity on the past is so that they can appropriate their existence through legitimacy. Even I would love to know how gay people like me used to live in the past in varying socioeconomic and cultural contexts. But more often than not people try to look at it more emotionally than rationally. To be honest I do not blame them since, because of the discrimination most still face today, they are trying to find their place in history. Obviously, it can lead to irrationality but I also attribute this to the very basic human need of validation. Nevertheless, I always enjoy your critical take on history and the work you are doing of bringing out the REAL stories is important. Thank you for championing true representation of diverse range of people, it personally makes me feel included.
Congrats to finishing a game! It's as hard as publishing a book, and possibly even harder!
Thank you very much!
Fascinating. Continue these. I will miss this week.
I don't care about who was or was not gay. But I do enjoy how this impacts people, society, and art (including how things are recorded in writing). It is interesting how society adapts, changes, or pushes back at such things. It could be homosexuality or a new religion or even a new scientific discovery, to name a few such catalysts. So a new series on how "one thing" impacted different societies over the centuries might be very interesting.
Now, that was an informative short-form piece on historical figures who are known to have been or were likely to have been same-sex attracted. Refreshing.
Great video (as always)! You should do a part 2 of this video including Roman emperor Hadrian, also Leonardo Da Vinci, Chevaliere d'Éon and maybe Oscar Wilde (if modern period fits the theme).
and Richard the Lionheart.
Could please someone finally debunk the myth that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Metatron maybe?
Sappho, if you take into account all references, she was definitely not a lesbian.... Perhaps bisexual, is the most likely scenario. As for Alexander the Great, all the "gay" references come from anachronistic tales, not ancient sources. Ancient sources tell us how disgusted he felt, when a Persian leader offered him boys for sex.
I am aware of the instance with Alexander the Great but it only tells me he didn't like the offer. In the sense that he might have been disgusted at the age not necessarily at the gender. It's indicative of a strong character and integrity but it doesn't prove he was straight by any means.
Herself Says the attraction of another woman......
@@metatronyt I think a lot of times people confuse anti-PDFfile sentiment in Antiquity with anti-LGBT sentiment. Some passages in the Bible (and also the Quran) could be interpreted as condemning diddling kids or non-consensual relationships instead of condemning consensual relationships between two adults. But it's hard to be 100% sure in these cases
@@metatronyt Alexander was known to have multiple girlfriends and Roxane became his wife.... Doesn't sound gay to me. Bisexual? Perhaps but with no strong evidence besides some non contemporary peculiar references that he might be in love with his best friend Hephestion...
@@Bashbekersjiw She was also in relationships with men, if you missed that minor detail. That is definitely not a lesbian trait. Bisexual? maybe...
I can not express with words how much this video means to me. Thank you so much for sharing truth and reason when so many just try to polarize with buzzwords, not understanding in the slightest what they are talking about. Those people are not my allies, they don’t speak for me. But you do. Thank you so much! I’d love to see more of this!
Gay, Bi Trans, hetero or whatever, if you like Metatron's content, you're all right
Hello fresh sponsorship from an Italian.... All I say is they must have offered you a lot of money 😜
Hello fresh is fantastic. I've been using it for 4 years and I've been giving them free publicity on my Twitter for zero dollars. I'm a massive fan.
I’m not interested in the subject, but one of the reasons I come here and watch is for a break from BS. Thank you, Metatron. Great video.
I appreciate that
Nice video. I like the Sappho story. I kinda get the association between lesbians and prostitutes. If a prostitute was seen as a broken woman in old Greece, then she was only left to find love with women.
Btw, people should google for the paining of Sappho by Auguste Charles Mengin (1853-1933).
I'm glad you liked the video thanks for watching.
Those bell peppers looked very nice. I wonder how they kept fresh in the box.
An interested historical video as always. Thank you very much for keeping to the sources rather than to an agenda. As someone with no strong feelings on the subject, I was just interested in hearing what your team found out.
One of the best lectures I've found on historical sexual orientation is Holding It Straight by Dr. Bob Mills. In this lecture he asks and address the question did the people of Middle Ages Europe have a concept of sexual orientation as we do today; i.e. did Medieval people have a concept of gay and straight? The answer he comes to is that Medieval people did have an idea of sexual orientation but it wasn't in terms of attraction to a certain gender or characteristic but a choice between a call to married life or religious life; sexuality or virginity. Its not to say that there weren't ever gay, bi, or queer people until the modern age just how the spectrum worked differently in peoples minds in a historical period. What it says for me is that people have always been people so somethings never change but human experience is nuance by the time, place, and society we are living in, now and in the past.
Thank you for another fine video, but I should mention that you have one little mistake - at 7:54 the portrait of incorrect Jean is shown. The one who is depicted in this drawing was Jean II le Bon, king of France who was captured by Edward the Black Prince in the Battle of Poitiers in 1356 during the Hundred Years' War.
My thoughts exactly
"Mr. Prick from the island of Man" 🤣 Great video. As a member of the "alphabet soup" community who happens to value historical accuracy I appreciate it!
Congrats on landing Hello Fresh!
Edward II of England probably was.
Michael III of Byzantine empire as well
Thank you for an excellently researched, presented and argued video! I would like to see a series. I am especially impressed that, like all good historians, you revise your hypotheses when you receive more data.
As a barely literate luddite, it would be nice if you read the english translation after reading the original language. I'm sure it is done for time management, but I often listen to these videos while I am driving or doing chores and I can't read the translation that is on the screen. I'm sure that I am not the only subscriber that does this. Pardon the nit-picking, I'm sure you have more important things to worry about.
That jacket your sporting M looks boss!❤
Thanks! It's a 15th century arming doublet based on the paintings by Piero della Francesca.
Edward Long Shark is my favorite King of England. Far superior to King Henry Left Shark.
what about king Samuel Loan Shark?
Love how you make sure your content is well researched and there for the most accurate content available. 👌 love this channel ❤
I see Michelangelo on your thumbnail, and my art historian's hair starts to rise in the air. He wasn't a gay man - at least not often. Very sombre and serious bloke, by all accounts. Kidding aside, I'd sooner say he was an ascetic personality, i.e. these days they'd be calling him _an incel_ (judging from rather masculine shapes of her female nudes in Capella Sistina, which don't look so masculine when viewed from the floor, it might seem he never saw a naked woman - but mostly people see them as photos in books and that gives the wrong impression; look instead at his sculpture in Medici Chapel, at Dawn and Night - nothing masculine there; some might point a bit strange boobs on Night, but she's meant to be an older woman, and still he flattered her body more than they usually are, or were in the period!), but he had one love, a certain lady whose name I can't remember from the top of my head (but I'll remember it later, once the comment fades into YT abyss... no, wait - Vittoria Colonna!), and they wrote love letters to each other, his were laced with erotic imagery of her body - I've read a few of those while studying art history. However, nobody can tell whether they consummated the relationship. Since I specialise in late medieval art on eastern coast of Adriatic, I can't claim to be an expert in Michelangelo's biography, but with the whole semester allotted to Leonardo, Raphael and Michelangelo, plus reading some excerpts from his notebooks I did get some insight into the matter. Donatello and Leonardo seem more suspicious in homo-erotic tendencies. OK, now I can watch the video and see what you have to say.
EDIT: Michelangelo Buonarroti was an artist with an eye and appreciation for beauty, male and female alike, as well as that of nature. If you read what he wrote to Tomaso, proper methodology would be to compare those to letters and poems he wrote to Vittoria Colonna.
I would actually assume that Michelangelo was gay.
Why ? Because his depictions of men are so lascivious and his depictions of women are not.
Is that proof? Of course not, it's just my personal guess...
You don't seem to have a clue what incel is, you really think anything else inf your comment stays credible?
@@spiderlily723 Absolutely. When I studied art history, then got my masters in the same and doctorate in art history and museology topic, worked on projects related to Late medieval (Gothic) art and architecture for 20 years - the word "incel" didn't even exist. On top of that, I wrote that "these days they would call him an incel" - meaning that most people today wouldn't understand such ascetic, pious, self-denying, work-focused character, not that he "would be an incel". I don't know if there is a word for "voluntary celibate", but not in sense of catholic clergy. Not my speciality.
@@BlackQback”volcel”
@@BlackQback You once again prove you have absolutely no clue what incel means.
Thank you Metatron for another fascinating video. Even though I was somewhat familiar with some of the details of Michaelangelo and Sappho from my own readings and my college education, it was great to learn more about this subject concerning other historical figures.
As a gay person myself and a lover of history, I'm really thankful for this video!
I feel as though this is a polarising topic when honestly it shouldn't be; Not for the reasons people make it out to be, that is. It's hard to know intimate details like sexuality from time periods where homosexuality was criminalised/shunned or otherwise not given written word the way more overt topics of the time were.
But some people seem to be of the belief that because historical figures were not overt the way people can in modern day, that they must have been default straight- forgetting all the ramifications that would have come with being so open in some societies.
It's a blessing that we even have these small pieces of niche history and mainly it's because they happened to be nobles or otherwise written about. I often wonder how many niches of historic LGBTQ cultures we will never, ever know about because they were between common people. How many terms, hidden languages, symbols have we missed that indicated someone was LGBTQ during medieval and further time periods? I suppose we'll truly never know.
Metatron, thank you for doing this video. I love the Italian Renaissance.
I would love to see this as a series. Do Leonardo and Carrivaggio.
Is the musical score in the background "Greensleeves"?
Yes
Yes!
I don't really care about their sexuality in particular but I'm always interested in history.
I don't disagree with you, but I also fully believe that if you were to time travel back to these people and ask them "are you gay" (with them fully understanding the totality of what that implied) they would laugh in your face. I'm positive they did not limit themselves to such a tiny conceptual framework.
As someone who’s bi, I’d love to see more videos like this of ACTUAL lgbt people recorded in history and hearing their stories, it’s really sweet listening to a lot of them. I’d rather that then random ‘historians’ making up their own history to assign sexual and gendered preferences on real people who never had those preferences to begin with
I was gay in college one saturday night, but have been straight as an arrow ever since, so that doesn't count.
🤨📸
@RestitutorEuropa it was OK I guess, a little boring though
I love that Metatron is pointing at us in the thumbnail.
I wonder how many were actually asexual, i.e. no sexual interest at all. Their passions were their passions and they just didn't have the bandwidth to split their interest in any way. Probably would be considered "on the spectrum," in today's vernacular.
Michelangelo Buonarroti was one such, all Metatron's "evidence" about his homosexuality isn't evidence at all.
@@BlackQback Yeah - I'm sure there are people who were gay. But since we weren't there it's just conjecture. I mean, everyone insists Phillippe I (Louis XIVs brother) was gay - except he fathered 8 children. I mean, he didn't stop at 1 or 3 or 5. He fathered 8. Bi is a thing too! I just think people waste too much time thinking about such an unimportant thing.
@@BlackQback romantical letters to other men aren't evidence. We need a sex tape to know.
@Raggmopp-xl7yf Most of them needed heirs, usually 6. Isaac Newton should be thyour exemple of someone who loved his own work.
@@paulodelima5705 You know, that's the guy I had in my head when I made my comment. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw him that way.
My college professor told me every person in history was gay, and a plurality of them were black, particularly the Roman emperors and all ancient Greeks.
20:46 honestly, between abandoning your military campaign with one of your greatest enemies and being gay, which would u be more mad about
Being gay isn't important, but people are weird and have nothing better to dwell on these days. Honestly, they should probably worry more about themselves. Good luck.
when you're programmed to hate its all you can do.
@@krono5elWho's hating?
It used to be a sentence for social exclusion.
I care.
@@soulknife20 Primarily the fringe leftists in academia who indulge in historical revisionism in an attempt to erase the white, western normality/orthodoxy from the west: present and past.
When I go to the USA I will try hello fresh, hope they'll be sponsoring you again when that happens
Someday, way in the future, someone will make a video claiming that the Metatron was gay 😆 kidding, kidding, don't crucify me.
And my wife will debunk them.
@@metatronyt they'll say it was a sham marriage because you married at 40😂
@@bloodangel19excuse me?
At 40?
@@manubishe well he was 40 or almost 40 when he married his wife. Ofc the rest of my comment is a joke. But he was of that age when he married
I greatly appreciated this video! I had frequently heard that Michelangelo was gay but wasn't sure whether this was some sort of fabrication by those with an agenda. The sources you provided definitely make this assertion appear plausible
Sapho... I think was bi
I'd love to see you turn this into a series! Keep up the great work! 👍
If the only proof of Michelangelo's gayness is from his muscular painting, then in hundreds of years from now people in the future will also say Araki is gay
If that was the only indicator we wouldn't have added him to this list.
@yezki8
Kinnikuman artist sweating
@metatronyt, Entertaining and informative as ever but I’d like to point out that ‘Gaveston’ is three syllables: gah-vz-ston.
We got some angry people in these comments.
Indeed and of course I was expecting it just like I expect the other side to call me all sorts of things when I debunk the cases that are false. People put feelings over facts. I do the opposite.
@@metatronyt I am not upset. I merely want you to answer my genuine comments. You have fostered an audience of identiterian right wingers who will reject science and objective fact as easily as the woke will. There is nothing to be achieved by appealing to their sensibilites.
@@calus7958 There are two people in the comments being upset about this, and one of them is me, and I actually took it all back, so...yeah lol
@@calus7958False. My audience is mixed, you do not have access to my analytics I do. Yes I also have quite a lot of right wingers and they are welcome here, just like left wingers are welcome or centrists or apolitical. I only dislike toxic extremists and they can be found on both sides.
@@metatronytbless you, man!😊
When studying art at university I've always had the feeling that Michelangelo, even if was gay, never really consumed his love, as he was very very religious (for what I can remeber).. But, of course (and as it should be, in my opinion) we never discussed this matter in class or read in the books. But still, just a feeling.
It is possible but we may never know.
Man, a lot of these comments seem to think that you were dogwhistling when you said that you just care about the evidence. I appreciate your commitment to academic integrity
Thank you sir. Always facts over feelings.
This is making me think the reason why people are so quick to deny that many of these figures are actually gay is because so many have been so quick to claim a ton of figures were gay when it’s not clear (as in there is evidence both for and against this being the case) or there is no evidence that they were. Basically one side was so extreme in the effort to “claim” historical figures they caused people to go to the opposite extreme and deny it. I thank you for not doing that and looking at the evidence. Can I say with 100% certainty that these figures were truly gay? No since we never met them and we don’t know what went on inside their heads, but we can make educated guesses based on evidence.
Baracus Obamus should be on that list
Don't you know it isn't gay to love a trans woman lmao
You're gonna have to raise the dosage.
😒
You are woke from the sleep of liberalism. Good for you.
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Your read of Michaelangelo’s letters to his love is the sexiest reason to study Italian.
I think the terms "homo-erotic" or "homo-sexual" are better terms as they're descriptive terms as opposed to "gay" or "lesbian" which had cultular and identity connotations since their conception.
I'm not making a political statement just want to avoid presentism by using such culturarily charged terminology.
Agree. Maybe "queer" works for generally "ab-normal" sexual behaviour that's not just homosexual? Even though it's kinda modern.
@@spaghetto9836 Heavily disagree. The Q stands for boring heterosexual nowadays.
@@robertmarshall2502 "Boring heterosexual"? Do you mean Questioning..?
@@spaghetto9836 No. "Queer" is now clearly a political movement/ideology and doesn't even require you to be non-heterosexual. An awful lot of ppl with no personality claiming to not be "het" because cisheteronormativity=bad are saying they're queer. Or for victim points.
There are also plenty of non-heterosexuals who despise the word "queer" a bit like many have distanced themselves from the "lgbtq+ community" because it has little resemblance to the original movement and often acts directly against lesbians, gays and bisexuals.
To many people place modern ideas and ways of thought on people in the past then judge them based on those modern ways of thinking.
At many points in the past the very idea that people would be either straight or gay didn't exist.
This video would have been awesome if it had been in a rapid fire format, with each person getting a gay/not gay rating done in a Trump voice.
Thanks for this. It's so refreshing to see honest recounting of actual historical reality instead wishcasting historical figures to be a person contemporary writers (or propagandists) wish they were, whether it is their sexuality, race, etc... Projecting on historical figures various traits that a particular person or group wishes they had in common with themselves is simply an illegitimate distortion of history and historical figures. Without reflecting the reality of the person and when they lived in the context of their world any story about them is merely fiction and that sheds no light on the historical figure, the period in which they lived and is a disservice to people living today.
Haven’t started the video yet, but who cares if they were “gay” !? They’re remembered for what they did in life, not who they slept with 🤦♂️😂
I explain that so I would suggest to watch the intro. I literally answered why in the disclaimer. A little patience please.
@@metatronytwasn’t meant as a complaint, just a snarky comment. 😂watching now, and yes you do speak to that very thing at the beginning. Love the channel, keep up the great work.
Considering history is being rewritten in favor of certain agendas, it definitely matters.
@@jamesknott5255 I appreciate that. This video exists because I don't want to leave this to the activists as they will twist it. Better in our hands so we show you what the real sources say.
Well some people are hate gay folk because of their beliefs. knowing who to hate can be important to some.
Man these italia spoken poems sound so beautiful it makes me wanna learn the linguo. 😊
Just came back from a vacation there and it’s now interesting to hear the story of the place.
Yeah, but they did not bade their whole identity on their sexuality unlike today. Besides, if you do not praise them today, you're arrested by some esoteric aggression.
Yes as I explain on the video their mentality would be completely different than ours, so modern LGBTQ+ ideas and activism when compared to being gay or same sex attracted in these time periods would have been very different and the human experience would have been fit for the period. Even between classical antiquity and the Medieval period being gay would have been completely different.
@@metatronytYet, You have still to endorse the equal treatments of Gay people or any other LGBTQ People at large. Don't you see that what you've done so far is fostering and environment for religious zealots and extremists? All those Right-Wing Followers you have accumulated don't care about the truth either any more than the woke does. They want them gone and they'll use any path to achieve the cultural ostracization of them.
@@metatronyt More importantly, modern people is relearning why the alphabet soup mafia was oppressed.
@@metatronyt How gay people relate to each other would not have changed, as, when you feel secure around trusted friends who are all in the same boat, so to speak, you act as your true self.
The mask you wear for society at large changes with the threat level.
Current 'Normy' society sees people struggling for equality and views it as an attack on stability; without understanding, how history illustrates clearly, that this supposedly rock solid normality is merely a fleeting fashion.
In warrior cultures, I'm sure gay male types like the 'bear', ''daddy'or classic straight acting 'top' would have been viewed as any other man, as it was the 'giving' that was the masculine act whilst the taking is perceived as feminine.
To be excited by the adult male physique makes you gay/bisexual no matter when you existed. I should know; as i was offered great sums of money in my youth as a male model but could never perform in a million years! ....Sadly!
So, If money couldn't do it; i doubt culture could LOL
@@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115no, you're just proving that they had been oppressed....and why.
Yes! More please!
Maybe one on people who were actually trans (or at least lived the life of the other gender, long term)?
I’ll be frank I never really enjoyed the company of women. I am attracted to them I have kids but really I just don’t like to deal with women in general. I was eod in the marines for 10 years I was more interested in training then schmoozing women.
Ultimately all I’m saying is that it’s completely possible a historical figure just enjoys hanging out with the boys
That's no excuse for the alternative which is disgusting
Some men don't enjoy the company of women for sure. But in some cultures where women are seen beneath men, misogyny and hatred of women grows and they wouldn't know how to enjoy the company of a woman because they believe they are too superior.
@@Monk_Chud doesn’t mean someone’s gay just because they hang out with the homies that’s my point. Imagine someone reading what I wrote and saying “ he must be gay” I am attracted to women I am not attracted to men.
But I prefer conversations about things I actually care about.
@@aliross2720women are definitely beneath men in most things
found Archie Bunker : D
I’m a direct descendant of Sir Thomas Grey, through my father.
There were clearly people who preferred lovers of their own sex. People who had lovers of more than one sex. Who had lives we in the present would call lbgtq+. But they wouldn't have seen themselves that way. The concept of sexuality or sexual orientation didn't exist. Passions and needs did exist.
Sappho- I just remember Xena gifting one of her poems to Gabrielle.
Why does it matter who sleeps with who? Does it change one's impact on history? This is the same with artists, does an artist's personal life change the value of their art? I don't understand this obsession with other people's lives, I suppose it's interesting, and scandal sells, but it doesn't actually change anything
Why does it need to change anything. Its just another part of identity. And the video is exploring it.
It does change how we understand their lives, their decisions, the context of other events around them... who knows?? Learning and understanding history has to be as widespread as possible.