Celebrimbor was the best part of this season for me. If my english was better, I could express how much he touched me. Him and Sauron together was masterfull acting. But I loved the whole season. There are things here and there to nit pick on, but people are using way to much energy on those things, so I dont want to contribute to that. But I can´t get over Celebrimbor. Charles Edwards has a new fan here.
You're expressing perfectly well!! Yes Charles Edwards, I don't know what season 3 will look like without you. Unbelievable acting performance this season from episode 1!
You must mean Thingol. Turgon's wife died crossing the Helcaraxe. Olsen's 'I don't care what they say, it is a Blue Wizard story', comes across as cope. The show-runners say: "It's not our story, you know, it's Tolkien's" Hey U Guys podcast The show-runners claim that they only decided it was *Gandalf between seasons is not believable.
Ah yes, King Thingols is what I meant! 😂 Actually in Matt's (Nerd of the Rings) video with the showrunners that came out yesterday, they confirmed this!
@@mellonheads I saw NotR's video. I said it there first. The claim is not believable. It might be believable if they said they had a discussion about re-naming him to something other than *Gandalf...
@@Tar-Elenionit seems unbelievable, but it is also such a bizarre thing to say if it is not true. If you're going to lie, surely you'd make yourself sound better
Aww thank you Julieann! Unfortunately no more breakdowns for ROP for a while but we will continue with weekly lore episodes and obviously will be breaking down War of the Rohirrim this December!
The Elvish charge wasn't that great was it? But then after the charge of the Rohirrim in ROTK ....it was always going to struggle. In a positive light.....it was better than the utterly feeble Númenórean charge from season 1.
Well no, I'd take any other charge because they usually end with an actual clash of warriors and horses. I actually remember the Numenorean charge in season 1, small as it were, still had a great impact with the horses and orcs. Props to the sound design for that one!
@mellonheads for me Elrond's charge (with Gil-Galad as backup?) exemplified ROP.....started off epic and then bizarrely lost it's way for reasons I don't understand?!
I don't remember Saruman's staff being described anyways other than black. Is there a reference to it being moon crescent? Yes there were definitely lots of Sarumanisms (especially wanting to overthrow Sauron later) in the finale. Check out our finale breakdown 😁 thanks for the comment!
@@mellonheads lol i'm talking about peter jackson's version. this show is just copying pj yet they didn't want his help on the show, they just plagiarise his work
@@mellonheads the top of the staff can definitely fit a globe which is what they will probably do in a later season, so it looks more like sarumans from pj (with 2 forks instead of 4 gripping the moon sphere thing)
Oh don't you worry!! We have had a lot of fun reviewing the show and we will probably do a few more videos about RoP but we will mainly be back to our usual lore content from now on. Thanks for the comment Mellon!
As someone who doesn't know Tolkien Lore that much, I found the kiss to be very clearly romantic, especially with all the other gestures from Elrond: Putting on the ring to save her (despite being against it the whole time), stopping the army, giving her the ring back (on his knees). I hope that they actually go for it now, because thats what they set up and it would be very disappointing if they just explain it away with "distraction". I get that it's weird for Tolkien fans (and you have my heartfelt condolences), but them not being romantic would feel weird/ fake after this season Also, thanks for the video, I really enjoyed listening to this review and getting to know more about the lore :)
Thanks so much for expressing your opinion! I find it fascinating hearing that this actually works for people because I just can't contemplate it!! But I'm so happy that there is an audience for it and that it might help to introduce more people to the wonderful world that Tolkien created 🙏 I guess we'll have to wait and see where the show goes from here!!
I know Galadriel's fall from the cliff and miraculous survival was a bit odd, but if you watch the scene on a big screen you can see that her fall is clearly broken by the trees, and then when they show her on the ground she is surrounded by a bunch of broken branches. But yeah... that's something they should have made more clear to avoid confusion. My rating for this season is 8.5/10. Cheers for the fun and informative discussions!
Yes if that is what they were going for then it shouldn't be needed to be viewed on a mega screen, why not just make it water below? Wow high rating! You're very welcome and cheers for the comment! 😁
@@mellonheads For me, the Celebrimbor/Annatar and Durin III/Durin IV scenes and storylines did all the heavy lifting this season, hence my high rating.
@@mellonheads Fair! I appreciate your good faith and balanced discussions. Hard to find online these days... especially in my primary fandom which is Star Wars. 😬 We have the Fandom Menace... I'm curious, do you have a similar name for the haters in this fandom?
Im actually quite surprised with your guys opinions on the battle charge! I thought it was quite cool how they stopped because it made me feel like no human army could do this and showing a bit of Elven magic. Also I predict that Eariaen will become a Nazgûl along with Kemen and Pharazons right hand man. Actually love Dave’s theory that maybe Sauron might return disguised as morgoth for the people of Numenor! Brilliant episode as always guys!! Will you be doing more coverage on the Rings of Power?
Yea I guess we wanted orc smash and orc smash is not what we got 😂 it felt a little too unbelievable to just be soft elf magic, felt more like movie magic. Solid prediction! We will be returning to regular lore episodes but we definitely have an episode of Rings of Power in mind for the future but maybe not for another 2 or 3 weeks. We will of course cover any news drops or if there's a BTS episode like there was after season 1 😋
46:20 I think there was lots of build up of orcs turning on Adar. Right hand man kept implying Adar was too reckless with their lives on and on. It was painfully obvious
We didn't get to see any reason why they would join Sauron which is the main point of contention. We got shown one cowardly Orc who never wanted to fight, and instead of leaving Adar's war to escape and live a life of peace he joins another war fighting under Sauron! Did he think Sauron would care better for the Orcs, having no reason to love them? Why didn't we get To see sauron winning the Orcs over to his side!? What's painfully obvious is the omission of story links
There was no build up. Yes Glug implied that he isn’t feeling the love as much but the next time we see them, Glug is murdering him with all the rest of the children ?? I dunno about you but if I feel like my father is being distant lately, that is not my reaction 😂
Yea that was the worst thing about this episode. How quickly Adars "children" just murdered him after fighting for him the episode before. Like all these orcs hated Sauron and now they worship him?? Did I miss something?
I agree that season 1 had a different vibe. I too was more excited last season for every episode and even starting listening to podcasts to discuss it further. I guess season 1 had more heart, more time to explore the world without crazy action disrupting it. I enjoyed season 2, but it did seem rushed at times and more chaotic. Also I agree, we need more time spent with Arondir. Also, I missed seeing more of Galadriel in the same way as season 1, and wanted to have more time with The Stranger (dark wizard plotline wasn't fleshed out enough for me, hopefully next season). I give this season 8/10
Yes great! I would hope that with the death of some characters and the leaving of others (Harfoots), we have more time to develop the plotlines of whats already in front of us such as Numenor, Stranger, Khazad-Dum and Arondir again. There was lots of action but I'd prefer less but better haha
Re offscreen elven healing: totally plausible. Now. If it's a human, not very plausible unless a powerful elf wanders by and feels motivated to interfere. Thank you for doing these discussions. I've been enjoying them so much!
It's been so much fun doing them, so thanks for your feedback!! Re off-screen action, plausible yes. But why? Show us the healing powers of Gil Galad please!!! Haha
The wacky Gandalf story: the writers I think based what they did on a couple of very Tolkien things: 1) Tolkien kept changing his mind about Middle Earth history. 2) Gandalf admitted as he sat outside the gates of Moria he'd forgotten the password. Inside Moria, he forgot the way. When he was sent back to Middle Earth after dying, he forgot who he was. That's a lot of forgetting. Especially when he's reading the text engraved on the door that tells you how to open it. Tolkien never understood the military. He understood and loved language. In a land full of trolls, dragons, orcs and wargs, balrogs, and earlier werewolves... It doesn't make sense to build a strong magic door and make it easy to open. Elrond and Gandalf know the Black Speech. It is entirely likely Sauron shared the door password at a minimum with the Nazgul and a dragon or giant spider or two. Maybe a hill troll? So we have secret passwords written on doors. And in The Hobbit, we have a keyhole only visible for 5 minutes on the specific night descendants are going to try to use the secret door into Erebor. (Oops. I was 11 when I read The Hobbit. A mystery door for 5 minutes on clear nights with stars aligning: it fed my 11 year old mind, and filled it with wonder.) I'm thinking this is once again Tolkien putting the Christian notion that God (Eru in this case) has a plan and uses mortals to realize it. Because a 5 minute window is hard to hit when your transportation is your feet or mules.
Ok there is a lot to unpack in this comment! 😆 Gandalf had a lot of forgetting of minor things like a password from a thousand years ago or so but if you're insinuating that it ties to him forgetting what he is, his name, how to speak etc. then that is a huuuuuuge stretch. Tolkien didn't understand the military? I don't know what you mean by this or what you're referring to... You know he literally fought in the First World War including the Battle of the Somme for like 4 months? The strong magic door was built with an easy password because it was for the safe passage between "friends" as a token of their friendship unlike the difficult doors on the east side of Moria. Check out our episode on Durins Door: th-cam.com/video/A7x4NV6s4eI/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TheMellonHeads-TheCouncilofElrondPodcast Are you saying that from Rings of Power, Annatar perhaps knows the password so it may lead him to attract a troll into the cave? I wouldn't be surprised if the show wanted to make another connection to be honest. Thanks for the comment!
I just saw "The History of Middle Earth" video and it really made me hate ROP with a passion. Why did they change everything? I mean, I can see compressing a few timelines, but what the hell? What gives them the right?
I love this channel so much!!!!! Aside from the unnecessary kiss, my worst moment was probably Arondir’s insta-heal powers. I love Arondir (he’s so dreamy 😍) so I’m glad he lived of course, but like you said it would have been better to see more of his healing process. My best moment was probably the Celebrimbor storyline. It was so well done and Charles and Charlie were great independently and together. Chef’s kiss. I’m sad the season ended because I love to listen to your discussions. ❤❤
Thank you so so much Tara! This is so nice to read and this comment really warmed my heart :) I agree that Arondir's off-camera healing was really frustrating but at least we get to see more of this character going forward so at least there's that! haha. But I think it could have been epic to give him a hero's death where he sacrifices his own life to give his friends a lifeline/escape. That could have beautifully brought his journey to a close. Yes, I think most people are in agreement that the two Charlies were the real shining light and driving force behind this season - they were just fantastic and yes, chef's kisses all round! Thanks again for the comment and don't worry, we'll still be having many more middle-earth discussion coming soon!
Huge potential but absolutely wasted by the writers and show runners. High highs - Sauron. Beauifully played. The Music Highs - Dwarves, CGI Lows - Everything with the elves and hobbits. Extras casting. Low lows - Numenor is a disaster, from story, to costumes, to pacing, all of it. The battle of Eregion (ridiculous tactics, terrible pacing, no sense of scale) Score 3/10
Wow a low score indeed but thanks for breaking it all down. I think I agree with everything other than Eregion being in the bottom tier. I know the sense of scale and some other things were very poor but overall, I enjoyed the action. Thanks for the comment!
@mellonheads even the 'epic moments' seem to lack .....epicness? Whether that's a show runners, directors or writers issue.....only someone involved with the show can say for certain?
Yea I think if anything season 2 was almost trying to write around the errors of season 1. Kind of reminded me of The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker 😅
@mellonheads for me they left themselves with an impossible task if they even attempted to paper over the plot holes and fix/navigate around the lore/timeline errors
@@AdamWarne-tx7wu Yes and that's what I mean. I feel like season 1 didn't service the lore, it only serviced the Sauron mystery box which a lot of people didn't care for and now we are left with the butterfly effect. Annatar and Celebrimbor should have happened in season 1
@mellonheads absolutely.....saw no need and still don't for the whole Halbrand storyline. Should have gone straight in with Annatar. The shows called the rings of power....just show that
Yeah most fatal mistake was not having rights to the story they wanted to tell Imagine making Harry Potter but you only have the rights to the house elves There's just no way that story would be good, because by definition it is starting "incomplete"
While I still think this LOTR effort fails as a storytelling effort, your point that changing Galadriel to Celebrian is well taken. Her torment at the hands of the Orcs serves as superior motivation to that of her Mother and would serve to engender actual sympathy from any audience be they rabid Tolkien fan or casual. Unfortunately, I have no doubt that the Showrunners would have found a way to mess up even that excellent and supremely logical solution.
@@gunnhildk6299 I agree you should always give people the benefit of the doubt initially. But the famous expression comes to mind, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Not trying to be a hater, just feel like I've been burnt. Was so overly excited for this series and they have the keys to the kingdom and they're throwing it all away 😩
@@Sarah_jm_1993 I think they are using their keys well, so I will have to disagree with you. And I haven´t watched much intervjuves with the showrunners, so I don´t know if they have lied about things. Somehow I doubt it...
Hello Mellon Heads. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts with which I am in full agreement. I have watched every episode of TROP and given it my full attention. In my opinion, it is a mind numbing incoherent mess to many times. And I have a theory why. The showrunners said they did not know that The Stranger was going to be Gandalf till the end of Season 2. Charlie Vickers says he did not know he was Sauron until a few episodes into Season 1. Keeping that in mind, JRR Tolkien himself said "the tale grew in the telling ". My theory is, for the Showrunners, thier "story is growing" from internet social media responses. I think they have recorded "Many Alternative Scenes" for each plot line within each episode. For a simple example.. The fickle Numenorians .." OK yall. Take 1, Cheer" "Take 2, Act Indifferent", "Take 3, I want you to hiss and boo!!!".. "Finally settling on one of the alternatives. Then judging on how that particular episode is received and judged on social media, they hurriedly edit the next episode in response prior to its release. That is why, in my opinion, the epidodes are choppy, plodding, plot holey [ Seriously Injured Characters Miraculously Cured ] and inconsistent. I have heard MANY reviewers ( including yourselves ) speak of "missing scenes", critical actions done "off screen" and of "scenes cut to maintain desired epidode lengths". Now, maybe I'm crazy for thinking the show can edit the next episode within a week of the previous one being aired. But if this is in fact true, it would explain why most episodes are an edited mess. Or "maybe", the series is just poorly written and edited. In closing I want to say that I am not a "hater". Far from it. I want a good / great series and I feel I am getting neither. Although there is much good ( Visuals, Musical Score, Annatar, Celibrimbor, Arondil, Elendil, Mirel, Pharazon, Elrond, Durin Jr. and Disa ) in this series, it does not outweigh the bad for me. I do remain optimistic and sincerely hope it gets better for all of us ( Lore Geeks, Movie Lovers and Normies. ) All should be able to enjoy The Rings of Power.
The showrunners said that they knew it was going to be Gandalf at the end of season 1* as they said "between seasons". It is an interesting theory and perhaps you could be right in terms of early showings for the studio etc. maybe they do record multiple reactions or varying versions of the same scene, however it isn't true that they would edit the episodes week to week for the public. All episodes are finalised a long time in advance and the marketing can only use clips from them. I couldn't agree more with your last sentiment! There is so much good in this series (and it's worth fighting for) but my hope for THE second age adaptation has unfortunately gone being nearly halfway through this entire series. I will enjoy what what I can and talk about everything that is done well in my opinion! 😁 Thank you so much for the great comment!
If I've learned anything from sports, and what coaches say after and before games, I'm pretty sure that I should never trust anything that those two guys tell us. Just saying. Let's keep some real expectations here. You're right, if they didn't know that the stranger was going to be Gandalf in the beginning, that's a pretty poor job of planning a show. But even the very wise do not see all ends. So peace guys
I agree it's not the best way to plan a TV show and I don't know why the show runners would admit to that tbh Yea like sports coaches, they might just say what pleases the masses but nobody's pleased so it's confusing
It is a dark and terrible tragedy that occurred right here in Ireland. They are vicious creatures when they want to be. I was chased for a long time after feeding what I assumed was the swans children. I've been scared to go near them ever since.... 💔
6.5 was a way very low rating score I mean the Annatar/Celebrimbor + the dwarven storyline pushes it way higher, but that is just my opinion. Like the season review thought. Maybe rate the review 6.5 😅
@@mellonheads Just wanted to have a bit of joke the point is since you underrated season I had to underrate the review 😅 Anyway I like your approach to reviewing this series. Always with a positive mindset and intentions. That is why I come back to this site. Great work:)
@@mellonheads For the reason that the Eregion storyline has been perfectly adapted,. The same goes for Khazad Dum. I also liked the Numenor scenes, although there are obviously missing scenes(we need an extended season 2 lol) and Gandalf with Tom. Only Pelargir doesn't work for me at the moment. Keep up the good work. I love hearing your thoughts
@@mellonheads Sure i loved the Ents with Arondir and i am 100% sure that we will meet them again. Let's not forget that we know from Tolkien's letters and Unfinished Tales the fate of the Entwives and their gardens :)
This is probably the most ridiculous reasoning but I don’t think the dark Wizard is Saruman because……….his staff is looks nothing like Saruman’s staff in the PJ movies. Gandalf’s staff in the ROP is similar to his staff I PJ’s movies. I doesn’t get more superficial than that but I think it’s plausible. 😉
Well Tara, it isn't that ridiculous at all because the reason that the Balrog and Narsil look the same as the film is because the concept artist John Howe is involved in The Rings of Power who also did the concept designing along with Alan Lee for Lord of the Rings. Therefore, they are allowed use a lot of the same designs and since they want to consistently make call backs to Peter Jacksons trilogy, this would probably happen if he were Saruman!
Im not a huge fan of the show, not because I'm a purist and don't even know a whole lot about the lore, but simply judging it as I would any other show. I don't think they are very good at selling their characters, the story, especially the teleporting is really bad, and people have insanely thick plot armour just makes you not really care about any potential danger they are in. Arondir and him getting stabbed I can only judge as being a massive error, that simply shouldn't occur in a show with a budget like this. So to me, I would give it 2-3 out of 10. I love fantasy and would have liked it to be better, but as a TV show, it is simply too much of a mess. And I think the showrunners kind of shoot themselves in the foot with some of the things they say. For instance about the Balrog showing up and that they thought it would be "bad" if it just destroyed the dwarves and that there was a much bigger story to be told here. I can understand that Tolkien fans get upset hearing something like this because that is what happens, so you get this impression that the showrunners believe that they can improve on his work. And the weird thing about it is, that they could still tell their own story, they weren't "forced" to have the Balrog show up now, so they could just have rewritten things slightly and have the season 3 dwarf conflict occur first and then have the Balrog show up. But since I'm not a purist, it doesn't piss me off a whole lot, but I find it tremendously silly how the dwarves can talk about politics, money and who should be king when there is a 20-foot whatever Balrog right under their feet that just killed the king. We have seen how easily the dwarves can dig tunnels, that demon would rip those walls apart if it wanted, yet for some reason, it doesn't. And as a viewer, I don't really know what to think besides its ridiculous. And unfortunately, there are so many of these things in the show. As you also mentioned, like the orc army marching from Mordor to the elven city and no one sees them, not even the elves in the city are aware of them before they attack. So again, even though I do like Tolkien and fantasy in general, the story being told still has to make sense and unfortunately I think ROP does a horrible job at this. Which is why I can't give it higher than I do.
I agree. I think the visuals were great and the acting was spectacular, despite the obvious drawback of a poorly written script. The writing has been the downfall of the show and I can't see how they could possibly redeem what we have already seen on screen. Some quick examples being Arondir, which you mentioned, being an obvious continuity error, the Balrog whipping King Durin's ankle in precisely the same manner as Gandalf in Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring, the absurdity of the King being able to thwart the Balrog at all, the Dwarves seeming to be ambivalent of the death of the king by an actual demon of immense power, the terrible sequencing of the siege of Eregion (which should be called by the appropriate name of Ost-In-Edhil), the absurdity and impossible range of the trebuchets to collapse a MOUNTAIN to damn the river, the orcs pushing siege weapons through the river bed which should be impassible, the elven cavalry charge that somehow stopped within feet of Adar and his orcs, the silly scene leading up to the kiss between Galadriel and Elrond which entirely failed as a distraction, visually, because the removing of the broach and handoff was way too obvious for the audience and the idea that no orcs saw it defies belief, the idea that Adar would allow Elrond to get close to Galadriel in the first place, Tom Bombadil not being happy and singing all the time, etc. and these are just examples from the past few episodes. There is a reason show has performed abysmally in terms of awards and it's because the show has been produced by amateurs all around. If it weren't for the acting and visuals, the show would be unwatchable.
@@Lord_Nordan Exactly and as there are obvious haters of the show because of the lore and it being Tolkien, I also think there are many people that seem to give it a pass for all these mistakes, which I doubt they would if it had not been LOTR related. And I don't judge things I watch like that, for a TV show or movie to get 5/10 for me, the story as a bare minimum has to make sense. And as they also pointed out in their talk about the kiss. Fans of the show seem to want to go very far in defending it. Regarding the kiss, which was very weird. I don't see how one could defend this as being a distraction, it never occurred to me, that orcs would even remotely care whether two elves kiss or not or that the orcs would have any clue who these two characters are anyway. There are just way too many of these oddities in the show for me at least.
I actually love reading the opinions of people that don't care too much about the lore and just judge this as a solely fantasy tv-show! I guess I'm so locked into the opinions of die-hard Tolkien fans that it's hard to find regular viewers views so I appreciate the comment :D You're so right! If Durin tells all the dwarves of Khazad-Dum about the Balrog, I don't know how the politics will pursue unless that is EXACTLY how the brother will overthrow Durin because he is the only one that saw the Balrog and is declared cookoo by his brother and maybe even labelled the murderer of his father? I feel like that is what is going to happen now hahaha That's a very fair assessment! Thank you 😁
Interesting persepctive on the blue wizard story in broad strokes being there. AT this point hoping other wizard is an unnamed Maiar I too was a lil sus about them not being determined it was Gandalf... I mean I like to hope buuu... I adore that hte praise for writing (tear being interpreted) isn't actually written XD His toys keep breaking on him. I won't lie, I'm a little scared that the writer's room is getting cleaned ....Like if some of them had been let go, I'd be okay, sure, they're weeding out the weaker points. But all of them? You know I have to wonder though, haven't gotten the whole soundtrack... Is it possible that the music is an editing room slip? Though I have to admit episode 2 I went: "Uhh are they trying to pivot Haladriel shippers to Elrond/Galadriel" and that continued sooo... *shrug* I think I'm just immune s I walk in the land of shippers and have just kind of learned that everyone has the thing that appeals to them and have come to just be *shrug* about things that don't align with my own purposes. Will plant my last flag that I was hoping both Arondir and Bronwyn would get to be individual characters in addition to each other's love interest so he wouldn't be 'held back' but we'll never get to know. But even if you are going to remove her--he didn't get revenge. He didn't get time to grieve in some way and just apparently has moved on to warrior mode which...wtf...also.. are we just goin to forget he is a warrior by /force/ not nature? Can we please bring in a little bit of his hopes of who he could have been in somehow too? I think they could have given Adar a little more time. I know fandom circles have been screaming that he was taken so soon. And I feel their paint... But the reaction has been so intense. And there was no lead up as you said. Given the universe they've set up... I didn't mind Tom. Once again, bais to actor. Of all the pop ups I was most irritated by barrowights. The death issues and callbacks were probably my sighs. Also The very muh ha ha ha black and white villainess of Pharazon and Kemen. Tolkien isn't as definitive to me as it is for those who make real content on it. So i do feel for those who are upset with canon alignment. but I try to approach adaptations as their own thing. The canon will always still exist. There are very few times where I scream about an adaptation but even in that case, I just refuse to watch it. *Shrug* I wish more people were like you instead of the few bad apples who just go on each other's throats.
Some great comments here as usual! Yes the blue wizard story is something that we have actually seen play out in front of our eyes regardless of whether or not the show runners think they were Blue. So I for one am sticking to that as my head cannon haha I love that you mentioned the blatant villain characters and I would certainly agree with that for Kemen. Pharazon is at least more complex but Kemen is just, I'm a bad guy ok? Glad you like Tom. We both like him too, my only gripe was that he was a bit out of character by being so invested in the outside world. Here's to more Arondir in season 3!!! 🙏
I rated season 2 a 0 out of 10. That's because I haven't watched season 2. I was so looking forward to this series, but I could only watch about 10 of ep.1 of season 1 and another 10 minutes of ep.2 season 1, and I never watched a thing after that.
No it's not. Star sign looks like the symbol Pi sideways. Gandalf's G symbol looks like an F. They share similarities but I'd hardly say they are obviously the same
@@chloe-historyandgames let's not be silly. You can argue (if you want) that they are "similar". But let's not start saying they are the same. In the same way I said Gandalf's rune is similar to F but not actually the same. G's rune has a straight line (north south) with two parallel lines traveling at an angle to first line toward North east. With your logic you could just as easily argue that T and L are the same because both have 2 lines perpendicular to each other
I really don't like people getting fired. I find it funny that all the writers got replaced when it is the showrunners that need to go. The writers got fired because of their bosses version. What a joke. Maybe a new editor also needs to be brought in.
Very true... I am losing faith in these guys who have very little experience and just recently found out that they never read any Tolkien until well after the Peter Jackson trilogy. I'm not one to judge people at all on their entry to Tolkien but I think that there are possibly thousands that are more qualified.....
Where are you getting that they were fired? S3 still hasn’t officially been announced, writers have to accept other jobs, they can’t wait and see if a show is renewed, and unfortunately then they aren’t available for the next season, this isn’t that uncommon in the industry…
They are contracted to Rings of Power so yes they have been let go from this project. If they sign the contract, they are obliged to work on this show. It doesn't have to be officially green lit for that. Official source: Fellowship of Fans
@@mellonheads contracted for a season, right? I just can’t imagine these are contracts that extend past the end of a season, as that would require they just keep their schedules open waiting for news of a renewal, in the meantime not getting paid or working. And I’m sure they’re already not getting paid exorbitant amounts. I just haven’t seen any language regarding “firing”
Oh yes they would never use the language of "firing". It's incredibly rare to see that anywhere tbh. Usually people do sign contracts for multiple seasons or movies to lock them in whilst giving the actor/writer security. Also they of course can work in between projects. Look at Marcel for example... They don't ever hire someone for one project, they usually sign a 6 movie deal or something like that. Tom Holland with Spider-Man is the perfect example. They are currently renegotiating his new contract as he's done his 6 movies
9:28 You give the show runners too much credit. the position the dark wizard took about replacing sauron in time IS Saruman's MO. If its possible to make the stranger Gandalf how much more impossible it is to make the dark wizard saruman?? I dont believe you to be as intelligent as you present yourelf if you believe this bullshit is beyond the brain dead showrunners.
Of course that is Saruman's mo. That's got nothing to do with it. The point we made was that Gandalf didn't know this thousands of years later in Fellowship, so how would that make sense? You don't know us half as well as you should like, and you like us half as well as we deserve! 🤣
@mellonheads and the point i am making is that the idiot show runners dont give a rat's ass about what makes sense later. This entire show made no sense.
Best part of the season - Tom Bombadil!!!! Worst part - Celebrimbor's death. (How could he talk while being impaled and lifted up in the air?) Ridiculous. Lol Shout out to Tommy's cute little Hedgehog teapot!
Yes we also had to shout out that teapot! Tbh I was not bothered with Celebrimbor talking while being impaled. It's like a movie trope that may not be possible but we've seen it enough to feel plausible such as explosion sounds in space or remaining eye contact whilst driving a car or even action heroes punching each other hundreds of times in the head. We just accept them 😜
![The History of Sauron [COMPILATION] | Tolkien Explained](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8IqAN1Of70k/mqdefault.jpg)
Yes I realise that it should be "Thingol" and not "Turgon" 😆
Please comment what you'd rate Season 2 as a whole!
If 10 is the limit, then I will give it 9,8.
High score!
@@mellonheads And I mean it :)
2/10 . One of the worst shows I've ever watched
Celebrimbor was the best part of this season for me. If my english was better, I could express how much he touched me. Him and Sauron together was masterfull acting. But I loved the whole season. There are things here and there to nit pick on, but people are using way to much energy on those things, so I dont want to contribute to that. But I can´t get over Celebrimbor. Charles Edwards has a new fan here.
You're expressing perfectly well!! Yes Charles Edwards, I don't know what season 3 will look like without you. Unbelievable acting performance this season from episode 1!
You must mean Thingol. Turgon's wife died crossing the Helcaraxe.
Olsen's 'I don't care what they say, it is a Blue Wizard story', comes across as cope.
The show-runners say: "It's not our story, you know, it's Tolkien's"
Hey U Guys podcast
The show-runners claim that they only decided it was *Gandalf between seasons is not believable.
Ah yes, King Thingols is what I meant! 😂 Actually in Matt's (Nerd of the Rings) video with the showrunners that came out yesterday, they confirmed this!
@@mellonheads I saw NotR's video. I said it there first. The claim is not believable.
It might be believable if they said they had a discussion about re-naming him to something other than *Gandalf...
@@Tar-Elenionit seems unbelievable, but it is also such a bizarre thing to say if it is not true. If you're going to lie, surely you'd make yourself sound better
@@Henez89ya I agree. I don’t know why they think audiences would like this information
When will you guys talk about Wendy's manager Gil-Gadaddy?
Yes I had actually planned to talk about Gil-Galad but alas we had run short on time so I guess we may look at his character again in the future!
@@mellonheads There isnt a "i guess" Gilgalad was a potent chracter in this. Meaning his involvemeant meant nothing.
The kiss. One way you can look at it is, would Tolkien have written the story/scene that way? In my opinion, heck no.
Well that could be said about nearly every scene, not just the kiss
I knew the kiss was gonna be a big topic on this episode 😂
Yep, we kinda didn't have time to get into it on the actual breakdown but here is the full, uncensored, explosive conversation haha
Love all your breakdowns ❤
Aww thank you Julieann!
Unfortunately no more breakdowns for ROP for a while but we will continue with weekly lore episodes and obviously will be breaking down War of the Rohirrim this December!
The Elvish charge wasn't that great was it? But then after the charge of the Rohirrim in ROTK ....it was always going to struggle. In a positive light.....it was better than the utterly feeble Númenórean charge from season 1.
Well no, I'd take any other charge because they usually end with an actual clash of warriors and horses. I actually remember the Numenorean charge in season 1, small as it were, still had a great impact with the horses and orcs. Props to the sound design for that one!
@mellonheads for me Elrond's charge (with Gil-Galad as backup?) exemplified ROP.....started off epic and then bizarrely lost it's way for reasons I don't understand?!
@@AdamWarne-tx7wu A very good summation actually
saruman clearly has saruman's moon crescent staff and says "my old friend" which christopher lee says multiple times... 😅
I don't remember Saruman's staff being described anyways other than black. Is there a reference to it being moon crescent? Yes there were definitely lots of Sarumanisms (especially wanting to overthrow Sauron later) in the finale. Check out our finale breakdown 😁 thanks for the comment!
@@mellonheads lol i'm talking about peter jackson's version. this show is just copying pj yet they didn't want his help on the show, they just plagiarise his work
@@mellonheads the top of the staff can definitely fit a globe which is what they will probably do in a later season, so it looks more like sarumans from pj (with 2 forks instead of 4 gripping the moon sphere thing)
@@chloe-historyandgames Yea I thought the design was rather different from PJ's to be honest but maybe the similarities are there!
Thanks for this! Hope you guys will still be doing lore episodes or something now that the season is over.
Oh don't you worry!! We have had a lot of fun reviewing the show and we will probably do a few more videos about RoP but we will mainly be back to our usual lore content from now on. Thanks for the comment Mellon!
Yes I enjoyed the ROP stuff but I do look forward to more lore podcasts 😁
As someone who doesn't know Tolkien Lore that much, I found the kiss to be very clearly romantic, especially with all the other gestures from Elrond: Putting on the ring to save her (despite being against it the whole time), stopping the army, giving her the ring back (on his knees). I hope that they actually go for it now, because thats what they set up and it would be very disappointing if they just explain it away with "distraction".
I get that it's weird for Tolkien fans (and you have my heartfelt condolences), but them not being romantic would feel weird/ fake after this season
Also, thanks for the video, I really enjoyed listening to this review and getting to know more about the lore :)
Thanks so much for expressing your opinion! I find it fascinating hearing that this actually works for people because I just can't contemplate it!! But I'm so happy that there is an audience for it and that it might help to introduce more people to the wonderful world that Tolkien created 🙏 I guess we'll have to wait and see where the show goes from here!!
I know Galadriel's fall from the cliff and miraculous survival was a bit odd, but if you watch the scene on a big screen you can see that her fall is clearly broken by the trees, and then when they show her on the ground she is surrounded by a bunch of broken branches. But yeah... that's something they should have made more clear to avoid confusion. My rating for this season is 8.5/10. Cheers for the fun and informative discussions!
Yes if that is what they were going for then it shouldn't be needed to be viewed on a mega screen, why not just make it water below? Wow high rating! You're very welcome and cheers for the comment! 😁
@@mellonheads For me, the Celebrimbor/Annatar and Durin III/Durin IV scenes and storylines did all the heavy lifting this season, hence my high rating.
@@Kenobi_Stan That's fair, I would give them the 8.5 rating but overall season would have to come down due to everything else
@@mellonheads Fair! I appreciate your good faith and balanced discussions. Hard to find online these days... especially in my primary fandom which is Star Wars. 😬 We have the Fandom Menace... I'm curious, do you have a similar name for the haters in this fandom?
@@Kenobi_Stan Omg, the Fandom Menace. I love it hahaha
Im actually quite surprised with your guys opinions on the battle charge! I thought it was quite cool how they stopped because it made me feel like no human army could do this and showing a bit of Elven magic. Also I predict that Eariaen will become a Nazgûl along with Kemen and Pharazons right hand man. Actually love Dave’s theory that maybe Sauron might return disguised as morgoth for the people of Numenor! Brilliant episode as always guys!! Will you be doing more coverage on the Rings of Power?
Yea I guess we wanted orc smash and orc smash is not what we got 😂 it felt a little too unbelievable to just be soft elf magic, felt more like movie magic. Solid prediction! We will be returning to regular lore episodes but we definitely have an episode of Rings of Power in mind for the future but maybe not for another 2 or 3 weeks. We will of course cover any news drops or if there's a BTS episode like there was after season 1 😋
The video I was waiting for! 🙌🙌🙌
Delighted that you got it 😉 hope you enjoyed!
46:20 I think there was lots of build up of orcs turning on Adar. Right hand man kept implying Adar was too reckless with their lives on and on. It was painfully obvious
We didn't get to see any reason why they would join Sauron which is the main point of contention. We got shown one cowardly Orc who never wanted to fight, and instead of leaving Adar's war to escape and live a life of peace he joins another war fighting under Sauron! Did he think Sauron would care better for the Orcs, having no reason to love them? Why didn't we get To see sauron winning the Orcs over to his side!? What's painfully obvious is the omission of story links
There was no build up. Yes Glug implied that he isn’t feeling the love as much but the next time we see them, Glug is murdering him with all the rest of the children ?? I dunno about you but if I feel like my father is being distant lately, that is not my reaction 😂
Yea that was the worst thing about this episode. How quickly Adars "children" just murdered him after fighting for him the episode before. Like all these orcs hated Sauron and now they worship him?? Did I miss something?
I agree that season 1 had a different vibe. I too was more excited last season for every episode and even starting listening to podcasts to discuss it further. I guess season 1 had more heart, more time to explore the world without crazy action disrupting it. I enjoyed season 2, but it did seem rushed at times and more chaotic. Also I agree, we need more time spent with Arondir. Also, I missed seeing more of Galadriel in the same way as season 1, and wanted to have more time with The Stranger (dark wizard plotline wasn't fleshed out enough for me, hopefully next season). I give this season 8/10
Yes great! I would hope that with the death of some characters and the leaving of others (Harfoots), we have more time to develop the plotlines of whats already in front of us such as Numenor, Stranger, Khazad-Dum and Arondir again. There was lots of action but I'd prefer less but better haha
Re offscreen elven healing: totally plausible. Now. If it's a human, not very plausible unless a powerful elf wanders by and feels motivated to interfere.
Thank you for doing these discussions. I've been enjoying them so much!
It's been so much fun doing them, so thanks for your feedback!! Re off-screen action, plausible yes. But why? Show us the healing powers of Gil Galad please!!! Haha
The wacky Gandalf story: the writers I think based what they did on a couple of very Tolkien things: 1) Tolkien kept changing his mind about Middle Earth history. 2) Gandalf admitted as he sat outside the gates of Moria he'd forgotten the password. Inside Moria, he forgot the way. When he was sent back to Middle Earth after dying, he forgot who he was. That's a lot of forgetting. Especially when he's reading the text engraved on the door that tells you how to open it. Tolkien never understood the military. He understood and loved language. In a land full of trolls, dragons, orcs and wargs, balrogs, and earlier werewolves... It doesn't make sense to build a strong magic door and make it easy to open. Elrond and Gandalf know the Black Speech. It is entirely likely Sauron shared the door password at a minimum with the Nazgul and a dragon or giant spider or two. Maybe a hill troll?
So we have secret passwords written on doors.
And in The Hobbit, we have a keyhole only visible for 5 minutes on the specific night descendants are going to try to use the secret door into Erebor. (Oops. I was 11 when I read The Hobbit. A mystery door for 5 minutes on clear nights with stars aligning: it fed my 11 year old mind, and filled it with wonder.)
I'm thinking this is once again Tolkien putting the Christian notion that God (Eru in this case) has a plan and uses mortals to realize it. Because a 5 minute window is hard to hit when your transportation is your feet or mules.
Did you just say Tolkien didn't understand the military? 😆
Ok there is a lot to unpack in this comment! 😆 Gandalf had a lot of forgetting of minor things like a password from a thousand years ago or so but if you're insinuating that it ties to him forgetting what he is, his name, how to speak etc. then that is a huuuuuuge stretch.
Tolkien didn't understand the military? I don't know what you mean by this or what you're referring to... You know he literally fought in the First World War including the Battle of the Somme for like 4 months?
The strong magic door was built with an easy password because it was for the safe passage between "friends" as a token of their friendship unlike the difficult doors on the east side of Moria. Check out our episode on Durins Door: th-cam.com/video/A7x4NV6s4eI/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TheMellonHeads-TheCouncilofElrondPodcast
Are you saying that from Rings of Power, Annatar perhaps knows the password so it may lead him to attract a troll into the cave? I wouldn't be surprised if the show wanted to make another connection to be honest.
Thanks for the comment!
@@multi-florum Yea I actually just responded to that part too haha
@@redelfshotthefood8213 Tolkien was a British Army officer.
@@kirishima2370 Tolkien understood war in a way this TH-camr never will. 😆
I just saw "The History of Middle Earth" video and it really made me hate ROP with a passion. Why did they change everything? I mean, I can see compressing a few timelines, but what the hell? What gives them the right?
I guess I had to move past that when I learned of the time compression years ago :( but ya it sucks....
I can't decide which kiss was the worst in this season 😂 Great to have your analysis, particularly on the music side of things. Cheers!
Yea the big one, the Isildur Estrid one or the Harfoots 🙄 thank you so much! 😁
I love this channel so much!!!!! Aside from the unnecessary kiss, my worst moment was probably Arondir’s insta-heal powers. I love Arondir (he’s so dreamy 😍) so I’m glad he lived of course, but like you said it would have been better to see more of his healing process. My best moment was probably the Celebrimbor storyline. It was so well done and Charles and Charlie were great independently and together. Chef’s kiss. I’m sad the season ended because I love to listen to your discussions. ❤❤
Thank you so so much Tara! This is so nice to read and this comment really warmed my heart :)
I agree that Arondir's off-camera healing was really frustrating but at least we get to see more of this character going forward so at least there's that! haha. But I think it could have been epic to give him a hero's death where he sacrifices his own life to give his friends a lifeline/escape. That could have beautifully brought his journey to a close.
Yes, I think most people are in agreement that the two Charlies were the real shining light and driving force behind this season - they were just fantastic and yes, chef's kisses all round!
Thanks again for the comment and don't worry, we'll still be having many more middle-earth discussion coming soon!
Huge potential but absolutely wasted by the writers and show runners.
High highs - Sauron. Beauifully played. The Music
Highs - Dwarves, CGI
Lows - Everything with the elves and hobbits. Extras casting.
Low lows - Numenor is a disaster, from story, to costumes, to pacing, all of it. The battle of Eregion (ridiculous tactics, terrible pacing, no sense of scale)
Score 3/10
Wow a low score indeed but thanks for breaking it all down. I think I agree with everything other than Eregion being in the bottom tier. I know the sense of scale and some other things were very poor but overall, I enjoyed the action. Thanks for the comment!
@mellonheads even the 'epic moments' seem to lack .....epicness? Whether that's a show runners, directors or writers issue.....only someone involved with the show can say for certain?
@@AdamWarne-tx7wu I know... I would love an "off the record" conversation with an ex-writer
@mellonheads as the show processes through the seasons I think there will be a fair few writers and directors left strewn in its wake
@@AdamWarne-tx7wu Yes and we will hear all about it when the NDA's expire
Season 2 was an improvement on season 1.....but that was a low bar to clear
Yea I think if anything season 2 was almost trying to write around the errors of season 1. Kind of reminded me of The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker 😅
@mellonheads for me they left themselves with an impossible task if they even attempted to paper over the plot holes and fix/navigate around the lore/timeline errors
@@AdamWarne-tx7wu Yes and that's what I mean. I feel like season 1 didn't service the lore, it only serviced the Sauron mystery box which a lot of people didn't care for and now we are left with the butterfly effect. Annatar and Celebrimbor should have happened in season 1
@mellonheads absolutely.....saw no need and still don't for the whole Halbrand storyline. Should have gone straight in with Annatar. The shows called the rings of power....just show that
Yeah most fatal mistake was not having rights to the story they wanted to tell
Imagine making Harry Potter but you only have the rights to the house elves
There's just no way that story would be good, because by definition it is starting "incomplete"
While I still think this LOTR effort fails as a storytelling effort, your point that changing Galadriel to Celebrian is well taken. Her torment at the hands of the Orcs serves as superior motivation to that of her Mother and would serve to engender actual sympathy from any audience be they rabid Tolkien fan or casual. Unfortunately, I have no doubt that the Showrunners would have found a way to mess up even that excellent and supremely logical solution.
Although they may have messed it up, the more I think about it, the more I wish we had gotten that story of Celebrian 🙏
Such potential but alas!
Please God don't let the dark wizard be Saruman!!!
He is not Saruman. The show-runners has said so, from what I have heard.
@@gunnhildk6299 Yes I've seen that interview. Do you trust them is the big question... I would like to but my confidence is wavering
@@Sarah_jm_1993 Yes, mostly I choose to believe what people say. Life becomes unnecessary difficult if I don´t.
@@gunnhildk6299 I agree you should always give people the benefit of the doubt initially. But the famous expression comes to mind, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Not trying to be a hater, just feel like I've been burnt. Was so overly excited for this series and they have the keys to the kingdom and they're throwing it all away 😩
@@Sarah_jm_1993 I think they are using their keys well, so I will have to disagree with you. And I haven´t watched much intervjuves with the showrunners, so I don´t know if they have lied about things. Somehow I doubt it...
Hello Mellon Heads. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts with which I am in full agreement. I have watched every episode of TROP and given it my full attention. In my opinion, it is a mind numbing incoherent mess to many times. And I have a theory why. The showrunners said they did not know that The Stranger was going to be Gandalf till the end of Season 2. Charlie Vickers says he did not know he was Sauron until a few episodes into Season 1. Keeping that in mind, JRR Tolkien himself said "the tale grew in the telling ". My theory is, for the Showrunners, thier "story is growing" from internet social media responses. I think they have recorded "Many Alternative Scenes" for each plot line within each episode. For a simple example.. The fickle Numenorians .." OK yall. Take 1, Cheer" "Take 2, Act Indifferent", "Take 3, I want you to hiss and boo!!!".. "Finally settling on one of the alternatives. Then judging on how that particular episode is received and judged on social media, they hurriedly edit the next episode in response prior to its release. That is why, in my opinion, the epidodes are choppy, plodding, plot holey [ Seriously Injured Characters Miraculously Cured ] and inconsistent. I have heard MANY reviewers ( including yourselves ) speak of "missing scenes", critical actions done "off screen" and of "scenes cut to maintain desired epidode lengths". Now, maybe I'm crazy for thinking the show can edit the next episode within a week of the previous one being aired. But if this is in fact true, it would explain why most episodes are an edited mess. Or "maybe", the series is just poorly written and edited. In closing I want to say that I am not a "hater". Far from it. I want a good / great series and I feel I am getting neither. Although there is much good ( Visuals, Musical Score, Annatar, Celibrimbor, Arondil, Elendil, Mirel, Pharazon, Elrond, Durin Jr. and Disa ) in this series, it does not outweigh the bad for me. I do remain optimistic and sincerely hope it gets better for all of us ( Lore Geeks, Movie Lovers and Normies. ) All should be able to enjoy The Rings of Power.
Well said George! We should all be able to enjoy a TV show without the fear of suffering online abuse!
The showrunners said that they knew it was going to be Gandalf at the end of season 1* as they said "between seasons". It is an interesting theory and perhaps you could be right in terms of early showings for the studio etc. maybe they do record multiple reactions or varying versions of the same scene, however it isn't true that they would edit the episodes week to week for the public. All episodes are finalised a long time in advance and the marketing can only use clips from them. I couldn't agree more with your last sentiment! There is so much good in this series (and it's worth fighting for) but my hope for THE second age adaptation has unfortunately gone being nearly halfway through this entire series. I will enjoy what what I can and talk about everything that is done well in my opinion! 😁 Thank you so much for the great comment!
If I've learned anything from sports, and what coaches say after and before games, I'm pretty sure that I should never trust anything that those two guys tell us. Just saying. Let's keep some real expectations here. You're right, if they didn't know that the stranger was going to be Gandalf in the beginning, that's a pretty poor job of planning a show. But even the very wise do not see all ends. So peace guys
I agree it's not the best way to plan a TV show and I don't know why the show runners would admit to that tbh
Yea like sports coaches, they might just say what pleases the masses but nobody's pleased so it's confusing
Will you tell about the swan attack?
It is a dark and terrible tragedy that occurred right here in Ireland. They are vicious creatures when they want to be. I was chased for a long time after feeding what I assumed was the swans children. I've been scared to go near them ever since.... 💔
@@mellonheads when I was a kid I did not realize they were about the smoke until my auntie had a similar encounter.
6.5 was a way very low rating score I mean the Annatar/Celebrimbor + the dwarven storyline pushes it way higher, but that is just my opinion. Like the season review thought. Maybe rate the review 6.5 😅
Hahaha thank you for your rating of our episode 😂👏🏼
@@mellonheads Just wanted to have a bit of joke the point is since you underrated season I had to underrate the review 😅 Anyway I like your approach to reviewing this series. Always with a positive mindset and intentions. That is why I come back to this site. Great work:)
Thank you kindly Mellon! We took it as a joke so all good 🙏
The show is a 3/10 at most
I give that season an almost 9/10
Oh wow! Why such a high mark?
@@mellonheads For the reason that the Eregion storyline has been perfectly adapted,. The same goes for Khazad Dum. I also liked the Numenor scenes, although there are obviously missing scenes(we need an extended season 2 lol) and Gandalf with Tom. Only Pelargir doesn't work for me at the moment. Keep up the good work. I love hearing your thoughts
That's fair! I agree with Pelargir although the ents episode was something to behold! Cheers for the comment 😁
@@mellonheads Sure i loved the Ents with Arondir and i am 100% sure that we will meet them again. Let's not forget that we know from Tolkien's letters and Unfinished Tales the fate of the Entwives and their gardens :)
This is probably the most ridiculous reasoning but I don’t think the dark Wizard is Saruman because……….his staff is looks nothing like Saruman’s staff in the PJ movies. Gandalf’s staff in the ROP is similar to his staff I PJ’s movies. I doesn’t get more superficial than that but I think it’s plausible. 😉
Well Tara, it isn't that ridiculous at all because the reason that the Balrog and Narsil look the same as the film is because the concept artist John Howe is involved in The Rings of Power who also did the concept designing along with Alan Lee for Lord of the Rings. Therefore, they are allowed use a lot of the same designs and since they want to consistently make call backs to Peter Jacksons trilogy, this would probably happen if he were Saruman!
Im not a huge fan of the show, not because I'm a purist and don't even know a whole lot about the lore, but simply judging it as I would any other show. I don't think they are very good at selling their characters, the story, especially the teleporting is really bad, and people have insanely thick plot armour just makes you not really care about any potential danger they are in. Arondir and him getting stabbed I can only judge as being a massive error, that simply shouldn't occur in a show with a budget like this. So to me, I would give it 2-3 out of 10. I love fantasy and would have liked it to be better, but as a TV show, it is simply too much of a mess.
And I think the showrunners kind of shoot themselves in the foot with some of the things they say. For instance about the Balrog showing up and that they thought it would be "bad" if it just destroyed the dwarves and that there was a much bigger story to be told here. I can understand that Tolkien fans get upset hearing something like this because that is what happens, so you get this impression that the showrunners believe that they can improve on his work. And the weird thing about it is, that they could still tell their own story, they weren't "forced" to have the Balrog show up now, so they could just have rewritten things slightly and have the season 3 dwarf conflict occur first and then have the Balrog show up.
But since I'm not a purist, it doesn't piss me off a whole lot, but I find it tremendously silly how the dwarves can talk about politics, money and who should be king when there is a 20-foot whatever Balrog right under their feet that just killed the king. We have seen how easily the dwarves can dig tunnels, that demon would rip those walls apart if it wanted, yet for some reason, it doesn't. And as a viewer, I don't really know what to think besides its ridiculous. And unfortunately, there are so many of these things in the show.
As you also mentioned, like the orc army marching from Mordor to the elven city and no one sees them, not even the elves in the city are aware of them before they attack.
So again, even though I do like Tolkien and fantasy in general, the story being told still has to make sense and unfortunately I think ROP does a horrible job at this. Which is why I can't give it higher than I do.
I agree. I think the visuals were great and the acting was spectacular, despite the obvious drawback of a poorly written script. The writing has been the downfall of the show and I can't see how they could possibly redeem what we have already seen on screen. Some quick examples being Arondir, which you mentioned, being an obvious continuity error, the Balrog whipping King Durin's ankle in precisely the same manner as Gandalf in Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring, the absurdity of the King being able to thwart the Balrog at all, the Dwarves seeming to be ambivalent of the death of the king by an actual demon of immense power, the terrible sequencing of the siege of Eregion (which should be called by the appropriate name of Ost-In-Edhil), the absurdity and impossible range of the trebuchets to collapse a MOUNTAIN to damn the river, the orcs pushing siege weapons through the river bed which should be impassible, the elven cavalry charge that somehow stopped within feet of Adar and his orcs, the silly scene leading up to the kiss between Galadriel and Elrond which entirely failed as a distraction, visually, because the removing of the broach and handoff was way too obvious for the audience and the idea that no orcs saw it defies belief, the idea that Adar would allow Elrond to get close to Galadriel in the first place, Tom Bombadil not being happy and singing all the time, etc. and these are just examples from the past few episodes. There is a reason show has performed abysmally in terms of awards and it's because the show has been produced by amateurs all around. If it weren't for the acting and visuals, the show would be unwatchable.
@@Lord_Nordan Exactly and as there are obvious haters of the show because of the lore and it being Tolkien, I also think there are many people that seem to give it a pass for all these mistakes, which I doubt they would if it had not been LOTR related. And I don't judge things I watch like that, for a TV show or movie to get 5/10 for me, the story as a bare minimum has to make sense.
And as they also pointed out in their talk about the kiss. Fans of the show seem to want to go very far in defending it. Regarding the kiss, which was very weird. I don't see how one could defend this as being a distraction, it never occurred to me, that orcs would even remotely care whether two elves kiss or not or that the orcs would have any clue who these two characters are anyway.
There are just way too many of these oddities in the show for me at least.
I actually love reading the opinions of people that don't care too much about the lore and just judge this as a solely fantasy tv-show! I guess I'm so locked into the opinions of die-hard Tolkien fans that it's hard to find regular viewers views so I appreciate the comment :D
You're so right! If Durin tells all the dwarves of Khazad-Dum about the Balrog, I don't know how the politics will pursue unless that is EXACTLY how the brother will overthrow Durin because he is the only one that saw the Balrog and is declared cookoo by his brother and maybe even labelled the murderer of his father? I feel like that is what is going to happen now hahaha
That's a very fair assessment! Thank you 😁
@@Lord_Nordan To be fair, I didn't disagree with any of this and it makes me sad...
@@mobster5626 Great point on the kiss!
Interesting persepctive on the blue wizard story in broad strokes being there.
AT this point hoping other wizard is an unnamed Maiar
I too was a lil sus about them not being determined it was Gandalf... I mean I like to hope buuu...
I adore that hte praise for writing (tear being interpreted) isn't actually written XD His toys keep breaking on him.
I won't lie, I'm a little scared that the writer's room is getting cleaned ....Like if some of them had been let go, I'd be okay, sure, they're weeding out the weaker points. But all of them?
You know I have to wonder though, haven't gotten the whole soundtrack... Is it possible that the music is an editing room slip? Though I have to admit episode 2 I went: "Uhh are they trying to pivot Haladriel shippers to Elrond/Galadriel" and that continued sooo... *shrug* I think I'm just immune s I walk in the land of shippers and have just kind of learned that everyone has the thing that appeals to them and have come to just be *shrug* about things that don't align with my own purposes.
Will plant my last flag that I was hoping both Arondir and Bronwyn would get to be individual characters in addition to each other's love interest so he wouldn't be 'held back' but we'll never get to know. But even if you are going to remove her--he didn't get revenge. He didn't get time to grieve in some way and just apparently has moved on to warrior mode which...wtf...also.. are we just goin to forget he is a warrior by /force/ not nature? Can we please bring in a little bit of his hopes of who he could have been in somehow too?
I think they could have given Adar a little more time. I know fandom circles have been screaming that he was taken so soon. And I feel their paint... But the reaction has been so intense. And there was no lead up as you said.
Given the universe they've set up... I didn't mind Tom. Once again, bais to actor.
Of all the pop ups I was most irritated by barrowights. The death issues and callbacks were probably my sighs. Also The very muh ha ha ha black and white villainess of Pharazon and Kemen.
Tolkien isn't as definitive to me as it is for those who make real content on it. So i do feel for those who are upset with canon alignment. but I try to approach adaptations as their own thing. The canon will always still exist. There are very few times where I scream about an adaptation but even in that case, I just refuse to watch it. *Shrug* I wish more people were like you instead of the few bad apples who just go on each other's throats.
Some great comments here as usual! Yes the blue wizard story is something that we have actually seen play out in front of our eyes regardless of whether or not the show runners think they were Blue. So I for one am sticking to that as my head cannon haha
I love that you mentioned the blatant villain characters and I would certainly agree with that for Kemen. Pharazon is at least more complex but Kemen is just, I'm a bad guy ok?
Glad you like Tom. We both like him too, my only gripe was that he was a bit out of character by being so invested in the outside world.
Here's to more Arondir in season 3!!! 🙏
The sea is still always right.
What???
We haven't heard that for a while haha
I rated season 2 a 0 out of 10. That's because I haven't watched season 2. I was so looking forward to this series, but I could only watch about 10 of ep.1 of season 1 and another 10 minutes of ep.2 season 1, and I never watched a thing after that.
You don't get to publicly rate something 0 out of 10 when you haven't even watched 1 episode haha just say you didn't watch it lol
@@andtheBlueFlames I can do what I want.
So you haven't watched season 2?
the star sign is gandalf's sigil. do u seriously believe what the showrunners say?
That they didn't come up with the Gandalf idea until later? Yea I guess that's all we can do 😅
No it's not. Star sign looks like the symbol Pi sideways. Gandalf's G symbol looks like an F. They share similarities but I'd hardly say they are obviously the same
@@Sarah_jm_1993 isnt π just F sideways ;)
@@chloe-historyandgames let's not be silly. You can argue (if you want) that they are "similar". But let's not start saying they are the same. In the same way I said Gandalf's rune is similar to F but not actually the same. G's rune has a straight line (north south) with two parallel lines traveling at an angle to first line toward North east. With your logic you could just as easily argue that T and L are the same because both have 2 lines perpendicular to each other
I really don't like people getting fired. I find it funny that all the writers got replaced when it is the showrunners that need to go. The writers got fired because of their bosses version. What a joke. Maybe a new editor also needs to be brought in.
Very true... I am losing faith in these guys who have very little experience and just recently found out that they never read any Tolkien until well after the Peter Jackson trilogy. I'm not one to judge people at all on their entry to Tolkien but I think that there are possibly thousands that are more qualified.....
Where are you getting that they were fired? S3 still hasn’t officially been announced, writers have to accept other jobs, they can’t wait and see if a show is renewed, and unfortunately then they aren’t available for the next season, this isn’t that uncommon in the industry…
They are contracted to Rings of Power so yes they have been let go from this project. If they sign the contract, they are obliged to work on this show. It doesn't have to be officially green lit for that. Official source: Fellowship of Fans
@@mellonheads contracted for a season, right? I just can’t imagine these are contracts that extend past the end of a season, as that would require they just keep their schedules open waiting for news of a renewal, in the meantime not getting paid or working. And I’m sure they’re already not getting paid exorbitant amounts. I just haven’t seen any language regarding “firing”
Oh yes they would never use the language of "firing". It's incredibly rare to see that anywhere tbh. Usually people do sign contracts for multiple seasons or movies to lock them in whilst giving the actor/writer security. Also they of course can work in between projects.
Look at Marcel for example... They don't ever hire someone for one project, they usually sign a 6 movie deal or something like that. Tom Holland with Spider-Man is the perfect example. They are currently renegotiating his new contract as he's done his 6 movies
Tom did not live out in a desert. TOm would NOT be a quest giver. Tom had a wife. I found tom a bizzare but hardly likeable character.
All very good and valid points!! 🙏🙏
I am first. Me and Tom.
Well done 💫
@@mellonheads Thanks :)
@@gunnhildk6299 You were there before the rivers and the trees...
@@Sarah_jm_1993 I was the first one in this comment-section. It was a stretch to drag old Tom into it. I know :)
Please keep dragging Tom into mundane, everyday conversations so that we can make these moments more magical 😆🧙♂️
9:28 You give the show runners too much credit. the position the dark wizard took about replacing sauron in time IS Saruman's MO. If its possible to make the stranger Gandalf how much more impossible it is to make the dark wizard saruman?? I dont believe you to be as intelligent as you present yourelf if you believe this bullshit is beyond the brain dead showrunners.
Of course that is Saruman's mo. That's got nothing to do with it. The point we made was that Gandalf didn't know this thousands of years later in Fellowship, so how would that make sense? You don't know us half as well as you should like, and you like us half as well as we deserve! 🤣
@mellonheads and the point i am making is that the idiot show runners dont give a rat's ass about what makes sense later. This entire show made no sense.
Ahhh ok
Best part of the season - Tom Bombadil!!!!
Worst part - Celebrimbor's death. (How could he talk while being impaled and lifted up in the air?) Ridiculous. Lol
Shout out to Tommy's cute little Hedgehog teapot!
Yes we also had to shout out that teapot! Tbh I was not bothered with Celebrimbor talking while being impaled. It's like a movie trope that may not be possible but we've seen it enough to feel plausible such as explosion sounds in space or remaining eye contact whilst driving a car or even action heroes punching each other hundreds of times in the head. We just accept them 😜
I didn't care about the kiss at all.
Didn't care as in unbothered or didn't care for the kiss? 👀
@@mellonheadsthis sounds like Gandalfs „good morning“ quote in the hobbit! 😂
I loved it 😈
@@foxtrot6670 🙃
Celebrian instead of Galadriel would make much more sense
Only kind of dawned on me during recording this but yes it absolutely just would have
Maybe they can retcon in season 3 haha
Rings of Power is an abomination of a show
👀
Rings of power is pure crap, teenage fan fiction at best.
Thanks for the comment
@@mellonheads fáilte romhat
Ahhhh, an bhfuil Gaeilge agat?
@@mellonheads m'anam go bhfuil
👏🏼👏🏼