In real life - it won't. Rocket is more effective - you can stash the entire payload with explosives instead of carrying tons of shit fore return trip and other non-damagung stuffing
@@adrewadrew5860 I am talking real world. In real world railgun needs long rails and shit ton of energy to accelerate a single projectile. You'd better load one large rail gun on you ship, than 20 drones with small railguns, most weight of which would be life support, batteries and fuel, and fire power equal to nonsense. Or 20 big ass rockets, which don't need to care about returning
would be cool though as a fighter equiped anti ship weapon. cant always have a swarm on that, i guess instead just have a swarm of fighters and after they fire you have a swarm of missles.
Another nice video, thanks. I’m curious what the resource trade off is for player-built missiles vs native weapons. I’ve made a few guided missiles over the years (LAMP, CTC, now AI) but have never tried them in survival because of the resource costs.
Do what the real world military does. Stagger the launches a little. No change in spacing required. Edit: I like to base my design and function on real world engineering. They usually know better than me. Even in space designs, most real world applications and designs can be used.
For the overide issue: I was doing some testing on my own, and I found that if you have the post-launch timer set to trigger itself on loop and set it to decrease thruster override, it will almost instantly turn off the override and your missle can use both forward thrusters. This makes it a lot faster and more maneuverable, and your launch tube can also benefit from both thrusters being on override.
Does having everything else on that timer continuously turn on/off/whichever do anything weird to the rest of the timer setup? I just have a devoted Override timer out of concern of the constantly running timer doing something to the rest of the missile's logic. Have what would be the 'Exit Launcher' timer activate it when it starts, let it stew in the background triggering itself while the AI takes over the engine controls.
@@TustlePlays Depends on how you have your timer set up - if all of its actions are "toggle on" or "toggle off" instead of "toggle on/off", it seems to be fine. But it will depend on your sequence setup. If you have room on your missile, I agree that a separate timer is better
@@cappaco1342 yeah no when possible it's either a definitive 'on' or 'off,' never the toggle now unless it's a direct control being mapped to bridge controls for ease of use for whoever mans that particular helm. Next time I get on I'll try it just to get some room back on my missiles.
One thing that’s great about these missiles is that they have a pretty good range, as long as they have hydrogen. Hypothetically you just have to dumb fire it accurate enough to get within 2.5km of an enemy ship, and the ai does the rest.
Since after two seconds the targeting kicks in turning the booster thruster off. If the ai has no target, it will just cruise in a straight line until it detects one. This makes the range technically infinite as long as you can get the missile within targeting range. Effective the range is as far as your render distance for ships. Or if your target has an active antenna then as far as that antenna reaches so that you can predict about where it will be
Would be neat to have a seat dedicated to this a "missile controller/weapons officer" who could govern how many missiles are fired at a time from the ship and at what targets. Increasing the capabilities of a missile cruiser design. Especially since it seems only a few cruise missiles are needed to destroy a target.
@@thomasallen9974 In testing, even a shitload of gatlings on a stationary target will only consistently bring down 3 or 4 missiles out of a swarm. A maneuvering target is a bit better, but not that much. The problem is that you'll have multiple turrets aiming at the same missile and overkilling it, then taking time to acquire a new target, and with only 800m range to work with it just doesn't work. The only real defense against a swarm of missiles is to run away with either a LOT of gatlings able to aim behind you, or sufficient acceleration that you hit the velocity max before they connect.
@@kevinmurray2551 vanilla weapons suck due to the short range, and the need to rely on scripts to get the most out of them, and scripts may not always function on a server especially if its lagging or so Ive experienced.
@@LastStandGamers Not working on anything specific at the moment, although I am playing around with the new features on a survival pvp server which is quite fun.
instead of turning the overridden thruster on and off, you can just override the thruster on the first timer block and then de-override it once you activate the guidance with the second timer block. That way the ai should be able to use it.
@@ocaj88 you can add an action to a timer block multiple times and it will execute that task adding the values so for example you only need the one timer block and just add enough commands in its hotbar for decrease override to return the setting to normal which maintains the same amount of space in the original design
you dont need to override it at full strength to get it out of the ship. especially not if using multiple thrusters. so you just shoot the missile out at the lowest override you get when using the hotbar for 1 or 2 seconds and it should suffice to get clear of the launch pad
I have played with doing this, and the problem I noticed is that the override can't be toggled off and on like gyroscopes, only incremented up and down. This means that you have to increment it up one notch with the launch timer, and then increment it down one notch with the targeting timer. One notch honestly didn't strike me as very much thrust for purposes of getting it out of the missile silo.
Really ☺, thank you for the presentation of my little missile setup. Fre: ANL = missile Anti-Navire Léger Eng: ANL = Light Anti-Ship missile Love your presentations and your channel content. 🤩 ... Edit : i made & publish a second version of the ANL with only one forward thruster fully working (thank AI-Events :p ).
Great work.. we made a LG version run via turret controller without any AI or scripts for vanilla 1 year ago and have since integrated AI into the new model. here is some testing from 1 year ago.. the ship getting hit is a 2 account heavy multi role ship th-cam.com/video/_uxrxUZQios/w-d-xo.html
@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 Hi, there is not really a difference between light and heavy apart from the initial pushing speed, ANL is a term used by the French army and I am French so...
Excellent tutorial, one small recommendation: you are able to use thrusters as boost thrusters by having them preset to fill override when they’re in the tubes, the first timer disconnects and turns on just the rear thrusters, pushing it out. The first also starts the other two timers, one set to 2 sec the other to 5 sec. 2 sec is recursive decrease calling itself in its own actions, but this would continue on forever so the 5 sec turns the 2 sec off, and activates AI
I spent forever trying to get a good missile set up then find this 🤣 well this is definitely helpful and may solve some of those issues I've had. Great video!
If I had something to add, it would be some refinements to the launch systems. For example, you could avoid the missiles colliding with each other by firing the salvo in series instead of simultaneously. Rather than a big clump of objects, it would be a continuous stream until the launch array was depleted. Another refinement would be split the launch arrays among different sides of the ship. If the ship was narrow, you could alternate the facing of each row of missiles, or if it's broad you could just have two launch arrays. Since the missiles thrust away from the ship before turning to target, firing them off in multiple directions will end up with the swarm of missiles approaching the target from multiple sides. That in turn will force their point defenses to split their file rather than concentrate it, increasing the odds that the missiles overwhelm their close-in fire so more of them impact on target.
1 point of improvement: you can make a conveyor tube connecting them to the main grid and have the override thruster blast directly on top of it to cut it loose, takes around 2 to 4 seconds and it's a lot cheaper and less maintenance than the 2 merge blocks.
If you add another timer block which lowers the rear thrust override and then triggers itself instantly, and use your timer block which activates the drone AI and arms the missile to stop that timer block from repeatedly triggering itself, you can give the AI blocks back control of all rear thrusters. I designed a missile cruiser which fires 16 3x3 missiles designed very similar to yours here, and I used that extra timer block to overcome that issue
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation.
If folks are interested in ships with the new ai missiles. Check out he Blue Jay MK3, an atmospheric fighter with 12 new AI hydrogen missiles, in the workshop. Looking forward to what new stuff everyone comes up with in this update.
testing with similar system using your missiles and shooting at a more active target. used a ship moving at a constant speed with defensive guns on it. Checkering in decoy missiles was a game changer. exact same missile except all warheads and blocks that are not essential are replaced with decoy blocks. shooting a barrage of 12 missiles with the corner silos being decoys pretty much guaranteed hits on target (4 decoy missiles, 8 warhead missiles). even at the max AI targeting range 6-8 gatling guns couldn't take all the decoys out fast enough to still deal with the spicy missiles. only got shots on 1 or 2 of the real missiles before they started hitting. -- only thing I did different was put blast doors on the front of the decoy missiles so if they hit they would do a little more damage on impact.
My understanding is, can't the first timer in the series be housed inside the vessel instead of inside the missile? Alternatively, you could use an event controller that detects when the connector disconnects. A missile designed for planetary use should not need an auto destruct event controller, in most cases. It should crash on its own. Unless the warhead is on the tip of your missile, you'll need a detonation sensor. Ditch the sensor, and put the warhead on the tip... but then the missile becomes more vulnerable to point defense fire. Kind of a toss up. Blast door block tips are great for kinetic missiles. Don't put too many, they're damn heavy. Having the gyroscope behind the blast door block gives it quite a bit of frontal protection. The best kind of swarm might be multiple types of missiles staggered in waves. You could have decoy kinetics go in first, targeting weapons. Follow it up with sensor detonated warheads, to blow holes in armor. Then a third wave, of missiles with no sensor and warheads on the tip. They'd be smallest and cheapest, so make them the largest wave, meant to really drive the point home and get detonations going off inside the target. You can get by with fewer timer blocks if your missile is forward firing and can see the target when it is launched. So, like under the wings of bombers. They start getting frisky right away though, there's a decent chance of them bumping into you. Just some thoughts! Would love some feedback
You could have just used the "AI ON" timer to reduce the override down to zero via having an action on each page to reduce override. 10 pages means 50% override. If you want 100% you can put the thruster in a group and get 2 actions per page to reduce override.
*Some overall tips/ideas for a V2 of your missile (though bit of an edgy name lol):* - 4:35 Surely it would be better, to have warhead un-armed during flight (so 1 bullet doesn't explode it) and to have sensor *arm* warhead 20m before impact. Warheads explode when impacted don't they? This way you *can't* be detonated in-flight, and *will* detonate directly on impact. - Missile Auto-builders seem quite delicate and complex, so maybe have them in a base - producing you missiles, and storing them in a warehouse. When you need them, you load them into a ship. Like *real* missiles. - Also auto-builders on ships, *shoot 1 at a time,* which is *100% useless* as each individual gets intercepted - and it's the *swarm* that makes a difference. - If you have an automatic building mechanism the *connector* is useless - just have direct conveyors to the H2 tanks, and once built shoot conveyors them off. Saves you PCU on missile. - Build H2 tanks with "Stockpile ON" and upon launching auto-switch to "Stockpile OFF" This way when welded from projector they will auto-fill. - Missile pushed out by a piston (un-merge once fully out of ship) and activate - won't need override thrusters, saves PCU and components.
You do not need to use 2 engines to propel you, simply use a recursive call to reduce thrust override. And set the recursive call to execute immediately
You don't need bigger spacing, just timer blocks in the ship timing release of missiles to make sure they don't collide. So for example if you have 3 rows of 10 missiles numbered from front to back it would release odd numbered missiles in right row, even numbered missiles in middle row and odd numbered missiles again in the left row and one second later all that is left in the missile bay. This way you added one missile width worth of space without sacrificing the amount of missiles carried.
In theory: Instead of having the two thrusters. Wouldnt it be feasable to have 1 thruster set by default to have thruster override + Two timer blocks: 1. engages after X seconds giving the missile time to leave the bay on override, 1st. timer then triggers the 2. timer block which is set to decrease thruster override and trigger itself (loop). That would deactivate the thruster override in a really short time, giving the AI control of the single thruster again. Cost is then 2 timer blocks (or possibly one if you already have a timer set to trigger after launch) instead of extra thruster and conveyor complexity Edit: You could probably add the 2. timer block to the sensor by adding range to its rear and look for leaving the ship its launched from, or the exit timer block instead of supplying the 1. timer mentioned above.
As a novice space engineer player, do you think you could do a build tutorial step by step instead? I really wanna build this but I barely understand your narration of the constructed missile
@@LastStandGamers I'm loving these new AI blocks, to many possibilities haha. I want to set up a test range and try different warhead placement (eg front or rear of missile) and see if there's any differences.
It is a nice design, though it is a bit excessive. Also there is no real practical reason to carry those missiles in silos of any sort, in fact placing them on the ship's exterior is much safer and you don't need as many timer blocks. The drawback of player-made missiles is that it's problematic to hit a target, which even if can't outmaneuver them, might just shoot down them with turrets. I've actually seen a tank with a custom autocannon turret on top of the main one that could shoot down a barage of 4-5 missiles. So yeah, even if you are sure that your target can't dodge them, you need to launch a lot of them at once to increase hit probability
Now comes the race to see who can design and build the best anti missile systems for ships so that my thousand hour ship build doesn’t immediately get destroyed by one of these missile swarms
@@watchwood until you run out of ammo or until enough turrets get knocked out. His ship can just print and fire new missiles almost indefinitely , you need a way to stop the launchers
@@chrissegee That ammo question goes both ways. His supply of building materials will have upper limits too. But yes, shooting back is indeed a good idea.
@@watchwood Maybe a mixture of good point defense dedicated turrets and makeshift chaff? Like some batteries on merge blocks that can be dropped out the back of the ship.
interesting - I build some a few days ago, but instead of detonating the warhead straight away, i started its detonation timer - about 10s - to use the torpedoes as a kinetic projectile to punch through lesser armor with a boom afterwards - either on the hull, or somewhere inside the ship i didn't use any side-thruster though to fit in more warheads (32)
Would take some more setup but it would be cool to have them ripple fire instead of all in one launch. Would also make it so you don't need to increase the spacing. I think the best compromise between having a big alpha strike and sustain would be a largish missile battery that's preloaded but needs manual reloading once fired and 2-4 auto reloading tubes. Like with your 30 missile design have the main battery fire in groups of 3. Launch as many groups as needed to overwhelm a target and use the reloading tubes when you dont need as many in the air at one time.
I wonder about using hybrid missles having a 2 part missle. One part as a "carry" module One part as the sprint vehicle The missle starts by using its carry module to get close to its traget, once just outside of gatling range the sprint vehicle(s) detatch and approach with max speed. (multiple sprint vehicles on a single carry module would work too)
This is a great idea could take it to the next level and have a jump drives set to multiple carriers they jump around the target and unleash hell overwhelming the defences.
That no override thing was making me mad when I was trying to design my own missile for atmospheric ground launch GPS missiles wich would be good for taking on a base etc. From a long distance.... worked well ...
@LastStandGamers we can only hope they do! Would make for some interesting pices.... especially since my missiles have a max travel speed around 45 unless there's something to lock onto in atmosphere...
I am confused as to what the sensor does in this equation, you turn it on and arm the bombs. Did you set up a trigger to detonate the bombs with the sensor?
After building missile silos. I found you only need 1 welder & 2 rotors for every 2 missiles. From what I tested, you could potentially fit six missiles for every 2 welders with 2 rotors. Also, if all of your missiles are set up in a straight line with only 2 rows. then you'll only need 2 rotors for all missiles, with the welders lined up down the middle
This guide is fantastic. My only question now is regarding how to wire it in a way that missiles built with welders can be triggered. I've had issues figuring out how to do that, since I have to manually reset the missile launch key binding every time a missile is launched.
It's likely to do with the name of the block that you use to trigger everything not matching, make sure there the same and it will be tricked into thinking its the same missile
I just figured this out. In your missile, make a group that is just the launch timer, then bind the group to the control seat. That way when it rewelds, it will see it again.
That ANL printer at the end could be done on a rotor instead. After welding one up it could rotate 90 degrees to print missile 2 of 4. Keeping with that you could even have the welders flip 180 degrees and print a 2nd missile on every arm instead of 1. Totalling 8. You'd end up with far less subgrids and 8 spaced missiles.
Any chance of getting a tutorial on how you made your missle bay on that ship? From the blueprint you referenced, i can make one...but howd you get so many lol
Just completed my own version of this. Got away with only two timer blocks. You mentioned using a timer to detonate the warheads, which is a great idea. Why not just use the countdown feature on the warhead block and save room for another block?
kind of curious if we could do something similar to this, but for orbital bombardment. Would basically need to have a gyro to orient itself towards a target with some heavy armor blocks to absorb incoming shots. Could enable a fuse or arm the warhead a bit after launching or just have it as a solid torpedo, but unless you have a kinetic mod that would allow for the built-up force to damage stuff, I imagine it would do little... also I have little experience making stuff in Space engineers that damages with physical contact.
Hey I love the videos you make it brings joy and laughter it truly I'm terrible sorry to ask but is it possible if different console gamer join you on the server or is it only for PC console again sorry for asking
Why arm the warheads early? Wouldn't it be better to arm them when they are closer to the target? that way if 1 or 2 of the warheads would be damaged that would not decomm the missile early.
If you use the timer option on the warhead and set the timer to 0 you could avoid having armed warheads at all. Set up the sensor to trigger the timer. It appears to be particularly effective against small grids since a near miss can take out half a fighter.
So noob question but i assume the sensors action would be to detonate right? I really haven't touched the sensor block in forever (find i can make automated stuff without it with scripts and groups)
Fix for needing two thrusters: Timer block With “trigger now” on itself, and decrease override, have this activate on the second stage of your launch, Now it will launch up, then spam itself to turn the thrust override all the way off 👍
I just bought this game and the more videos I watch, the more intimidated I become. What is the best way to learn how to play the game effectively and have fun? Should I just watch videos until I'm confident or try my luck in multiplayer?
Looking at it...... it needs a stagger fire i.e. 2 launches 2 blocks apart 6 second intervals for contunuous firing. Need an ecliptic launch to maintain speeds, Put an armored (head) on the missile for added penatrating power Put the warhead on a timer to det after impact Can be used to mess with a ships/stations flight angle, making it easier to high, though it would lose its damage potential.
I wonder if it would be too much to put a mass block inside of the missile, and have gravity generators that push them out of the launch tube. You might need to make them 3 blocks wide just so the mass block can be at the center and you don't have to add 4 of them. Although it might be fine for a short distance and a temporary gyro override.
Instead of spacing the missiles out, give sets of them a 1-second delay. Side note. I would like to know how well these work in combat and with a higher speed limit.
@@LastStandGamers Was not expecting a responce XD. I have been watching your videos since the time of Henry the ship. You could 1v1 the same ship against itself. My main question is how often do the missiles hit their target when it is moving.
Missiles with warheads are useless if the target has turrets. The turrets shoot the warhead and destroy the missile before it gets there. It works to send rockets that are just armor blocks to ram and take out the turrets first, then fire missiles with warheads.
How do you get your missiles to launch from the launch pad? My button doesn’t work after it’s been used on one missile. Trying to mess around with event controllers but I can’t seem to figure that out at the moment either
seems like the best defense is a faster missile that draws all those targets back to its source or a missile that attaches itself to the enemy ship so it attacks itself i was toying with the idea of a missile with a decoy rotating system on it seems like that would be the worst thing to face
I just wanna comment to the missiles itself: You want a Warhead at the front, otherwise collision damage will destory the warhead before it can explode. It's said to be a bug but hasn't ever been fixed
You also need to consider enemy fire. you dont want your warheads to be easily destroyed so right at the front is a bit sketch but it does require testing to figure out the best placement.
From my experience at building in diverse games. You generally want your least useful components to be placed at the front to soak damage and the critical components to be further back.
@@archangel8172 Yeah, I know that, but you waste your warheads if you dont place at least 1 at the front to initiate the detonation otherwise, you have a kinetik driver
Hey LastStand. I have a suggestion for a space station. I wonder if it be possible to recreate ODIN from call of duty ghosts. It's a orbital kinetic bombardment station, meant destruction from space. Also great video, I've been getting into space engineers quite a bit, its quite nice break down too even though I'm confused asf.
having problems with reprinted missles: if i reprint the missles the timerblocks (although they have the same name) are grayed out in the controllbar. they also don't react to timerblocks. is there a way around that?
I just figured this out. In your missile, make a group that is just the launch timer, then bind the group to the control seat. That way when it rewelds, it will see it again.
Question: The Launcher on the workshop somehow keeps the timer block on its toolbar each time a new missile is welded. When I try to replicate it, the timer block disappears from the toolbar after each launch. How does it stay on the toolbar?
I just figured this out. In your missile, make a group that is just the launch timer, then bind the group to the control seat. That way when it rewelds, it will see it again.
how do you launch all your missiles without having to add all of them seperately to the hotbar? Because when i want to launch missiles after having reloaded them won't launch anymore. Do I need to name something in a specific way or what do I need to do?
Got a message about this video thismorning. A friend thought this was 1 of my missiles because the name is similar to my faction tag LNA. I do have an old large grid TCB missile I made, but its outdated. I plan on making a new version soon as well as small missiles similar to this. I can see if I can fix that thruster issue if Jeje is alright with that
Absolutely love this design, but trying to figure out how get the projector/welders to turn on, let the rocket build, then turn off automatically with a single button press has somehow stumped me 🤣
I am thinking now of an AI controlled boarding pod. 4-6 seats inside, 4 grinders facing forwards and a magnetic plate on sides to autolock the pod after it lodged itself into the breach. Then the players open front door that is in the middle of 4 grinders and into the breach we go, lads!
the anl-missile is launched by a button on the missile. but how can I trigger a timer on the missile from my ship? If I try to trigger the timer block from a cockpit block it works only the first time and when the missile is rebuild it isn't the same timer block anymore and I have to reassign it.
![[LIVE] นาทีนี้ต้องพี่ทนาย | ทนายแก้ว vs ทนายไพศาล | #คุยให้เด็กมันฟัง EP.47 (02/11/67)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HmquaO-PL_M/mqdefault.jpg)
I wanna see a drone carrier vs drone carrier fleet battle. Just too show how viable a fleet of ships of varying sizes made of drones would be!
As long as the system running the game could handle it, that would be epic to watch!
In real life - it won't. Rocket is more effective - you can stash the entire payload with explosives instead of carrying tons of shit fore return trip and other non-damagung stuffing
I could run this kind of thing i'd just need two drone carrier ships that are mostly automated
@@DKOILiveheap railgun drones and like 20 of them well. You can rip off one ship every reload.
@@adrewadrew5860 I am talking real world. In real world railgun needs long rails and shit ton of energy to accelerate a single projectile. You'd better load one large rail gun on you ship, than 20 drones with small railguns, most weight of which would be life support, batteries and fuel, and fire power equal to nonsense. Or 20 big ass rockets, which don't need to care about returning
If you’re measuring your missiles in anything less than swarms, you need more missiles.
Overwhelm the defences hahahaha
would be cool though as a fighter equiped anti ship weapon. cant always have a swarm on that, i guess instead just have a swarm of fighters and after they fire you have a swarm of missles.
That mini merge-block has to be one of the best things added in a long time.
I agree its a life saver.
yes and it makes no sense that it wasnt added when the first one was but that logic seems to be a thing with keen
You do know the small merge block has been available for quite a while right? It’s the small connector that’s new
Another nice video, thanks. I’m curious what the resource trade off is for player-built missiles vs native weapons. I’ve made a few guided missiles over the years (LAMP, CTC, now AI) but have never tried them in survival because of the resource costs.
@@matthewcozon4686 small connector may even be a bug, given its replaced the ejector.
Do what the real world military does. Stagger the launches a little. No change in spacing required.
Edit: I like to base my design and function on real world engineering. They usually know better than me. Even in space designs, most real world applications and designs can be used.
smart
Exactly
Oh wow nice tip. Do you got any more off the top of your head?
For the overide issue: I was doing some testing on my own, and I found that if you have the post-launch timer set to trigger itself on loop and set it to decrease thruster override, it will almost instantly turn off the override and your missle can use both forward thrusters. This makes it a lot faster and more maneuverable, and your launch tube can also benefit from both thrusters being on override.
Does having everything else on that timer continuously turn on/off/whichever do anything weird to the rest of the timer setup? I just have a devoted Override timer out of concern of the constantly running timer doing something to the rest of the missile's logic. Have what would be the 'Exit Launcher' timer activate it when it starts, let it stew in the background triggering itself while the AI takes over the engine controls.
I solved the override issue with not making override at all and giving the momentum using the combination of gravity generators and artificial mass
@@TustlePlays Depends on how you have your timer set up - if all of its actions are "toggle on" or "toggle off" instead of "toggle on/off", it seems to be fine. But it will depend on your sequence setup. If you have room on your missile, I agree that a separate timer is better
@@cappaco1342 yeah no when possible it's either a definitive 'on' or 'off,' never the toggle now unless it's a direct control being mapped to bridge controls for ease of use for whoever mans that particular helm.
Next time I get on I'll try it just to get some room back on my missiles.
One thing that’s great about these missiles is that they have a pretty good range, as long as they have hydrogen. Hypothetically you just have to dumb fire it accurate enough to get within 2.5km of an enemy ship, and the ai does the rest.
Since after two seconds the targeting kicks in turning the booster thruster off. If the ai has no target, it will just cruise in a straight line until it detects one. This makes the range technically infinite as long as you can get the missile within targeting range. Effective the range is as far as your render distance for ships. Or if your target has an active antenna then as far as that antenna reaches so that you can predict about where it will be
Would be neat to have a seat dedicated to this a "missile controller/weapons officer" who could govern how many missiles are fired at a time from the ship and at what targets. Increasing the capabilities of a missile cruiser design. Especially since it seems only a few cruise missiles are needed to destroy a target.
and given how dangerous these missile designs are, large ships are highly vulnerable without gatling coverage. Even then thats not an assurance
@@thomasallen9974 In testing, even a shitload of gatlings on a stationary target will only consistently bring down 3 or 4 missiles out of a swarm. A maneuvering target is a bit better, but not that much. The problem is that you'll have multiple turrets aiming at the same missile and overkilling it, then taking time to acquire a new target, and with only 800m range to work with it just doesn't work. The only real defense against a swarm of missiles is to run away with either a LOT of gatlings able to aim behind you, or sufficient acceleration that you hit the velocity max before they connect.
@@kevinmurray2551 vanilla weapons suck due to the short range, and the need to rely on scripts to get the most out of them, and scripts may not always function on a server especially if its lagging or so Ive experienced.
my preffered detonation method is to monitor the health of the top piece. if it's zero then there was an impact so the detonation can happen
The missile knows where it is. It knows this because it knows where it isnt.
DaddyDamo nice to see you in the comments. Working on anything crazy ?
@@LastStandGamers Not working on anything specific at the moment, although I am playing around with the new features on a survival pvp server which is quite fun.
@@LastStandGamerscrazy? I was crazy once
instead of turning the overridden thruster on and off, you can just override the thruster on the first timer block and then de-override it once you activate the guidance with the second timer block. That way the ai should be able to use it.
@@ocaj88 you can add an action to a timer block multiple times and it will execute that task adding the values so for example you only need the one timer block and just add enough commands in its hotbar for decrease override to return the setting to normal which maintains the same amount of space in the original design
you dont need to override it at full strength to get it out of the ship. especially not if using multiple thrusters. so you just shoot the missile out at the lowest override you get when using the hotbar for 1 or 2 seconds and it should suffice to get clear of the launch pad
I have played with doing this, and the problem I noticed is that the override can't be toggled off and on like gyroscopes, only incremented up and down. This means that you have to increment it up one notch with the launch timer, and then increment it down one notch with the targeting timer. One notch honestly didn't strike me as very much thrust for purposes of getting it out of the missile silo.
I think keen need to add a setting to turn off and on overide.
Great idea will make some upgrades for the next one.
Really ☺, thank you for the presentation of my little missile setup.
Fre: ANL = missile Anti-Navire Léger
Eng: ANL = Light Anti-Ship missile
Love your presentations and your channel content. 🤩
...
Edit : i made & publish a second version of the ANL with only one forward thruster fully working (thank AI-Events :p ).
Thankyou for helping the community with blueprint.
Great work.. we made a LG version run via turret controller without any AI or scripts for vanilla 1 year ago and have since integrated AI into the new model. here is some testing from 1 year ago.. the ship getting hit is a 2 account heavy multi role ship th-cam.com/video/_uxrxUZQios/w-d-xo.html
If this is light, then how powerful is heavy one?
@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 Hi, there is not really a difference between light and heavy apart from the initial pushing speed, ANL is a term used by the French army and I am French so...
Excellent tutorial, one small recommendation: you are able to use thrusters as boost thrusters by having them preset to fill override when they’re in the tubes, the first timer disconnects and turns on just the rear thrusters, pushing it out. The first also starts the other two timers, one set to 2 sec the other to 5 sec. 2 sec is recursive decrease calling itself in its own actions, but this would continue on forever so the 5 sec turns the 2 sec off, and activates AI
I spent forever trying to get a good missile set up then find this 🤣 well this is definitely helpful and may solve some of those issues I've had. Great video!
If I had something to add, it would be some refinements to the launch systems. For example, you could avoid the missiles colliding with each other by firing the salvo in series instead of simultaneously. Rather than a big clump of objects, it would be a continuous stream until the launch array was depleted. Another refinement would be split the launch arrays among different sides of the ship. If the ship was narrow, you could alternate the facing of each row of missiles, or if it's broad you could just have two launch arrays. Since the missiles thrust away from the ship before turning to target, firing them off in multiple directions will end up with the swarm of missiles approaching the target from multiple sides. That in turn will force their point defenses to split their file rather than concentrate it, increasing the odds that the missiles overwhelm their close-in fire so more of them impact on target.
Finally, warfare 3
1 point of improvement: you can make a conveyor tube connecting them to the main grid and have the override thruster blast directly on top of it to cut it loose, takes around 2 to 4 seconds and it's a lot cheaper and less maintenance than the 2 merge blocks.
If you add another timer block which lowers the rear thrust override and then triggers itself instantly, and use your timer block which activates the drone AI and arms the missile to stop that timer block from repeatedly triggering itself, you can give the AI blocks back control of all rear thrusters.
I designed a missile cruiser which fires 16 3x3 missiles designed very similar to yours here, and I used that extra timer block to overcome that issue
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation.
If folks are interested in ships with the new ai missiles. Check out he Blue Jay MK3, an atmospheric fighter with 12 new AI hydrogen missiles, in the workshop. Looking forward to what new stuff everyone comes up with in this update.
testing with similar system using your missiles and shooting at a more active target. used a ship moving at a constant speed with defensive guns on it. Checkering in decoy missiles was a game changer. exact same missile except all warheads and blocks that are not essential are replaced with decoy blocks. shooting a barrage of 12 missiles with the corner silos being decoys pretty much guaranteed hits on target (4 decoy missiles, 8 warhead missiles). even at the max AI targeting range 6-8 gatling guns couldn't take all the decoys out fast enough to still deal with the spicy missiles. only got shots on 1 or 2 of the real missiles before they started hitting.
-- only thing I did different was put blast doors on the front of the decoy missiles so if they hit they would do a little more damage on impact.
My understanding is, can't the first timer in the series be housed inside the vessel instead of inside the missile? Alternatively, you could use an event controller that detects when the connector disconnects.
A missile designed for planetary use should not need an auto destruct event controller, in most cases. It should crash on its own.
Unless the warhead is on the tip of your missile, you'll need a detonation sensor. Ditch the sensor, and put the warhead on the tip... but then the missile becomes more vulnerable to point defense fire. Kind of a toss up.
Blast door block tips are great for kinetic missiles. Don't put too many, they're damn heavy. Having the gyroscope behind the blast door block gives it quite a bit of frontal protection.
The best kind of swarm might be multiple types of missiles staggered in waves. You could have decoy kinetics go in first, targeting weapons. Follow it up with sensor detonated warheads, to blow holes in armor. Then a third wave, of missiles with no sensor and warheads on the tip. They'd be smallest and cheapest, so make them the largest wave, meant to really drive the point home and get detonations going off inside the target.
You can get by with fewer timer blocks if your missile is forward firing and can see the target when it is launched. So, like under the wings of bombers. They start getting frisky right away though, there's a decent chance of them bumping into you.
Just some thoughts! Would love some feedback
Splitsie gonna want some of these, I just know it.
You could have just used the "AI ON" timer to reduce the override down to zero via having an action on each page to reduce override. 10 pages means 50% override. If you want 100% you can put the thruster in a group and get 2 actions per page to reduce override.
This. You can also put one block into multiple groups too to get up to 9 override commands per hotbar
*Some overall tips/ideas for a V2 of your missile (though bit of an edgy name lol):*
- 4:35 Surely it would be better, to have warhead un-armed during flight (so 1 bullet doesn't explode it) and to have
sensor *arm* warhead 20m before impact. Warheads explode when impacted don't they?
This way you *can't* be detonated in-flight, and *will* detonate directly on impact.
- Missile Auto-builders seem quite delicate and complex, so maybe have them in a base - producing you missiles, and storing them in a warehouse.
When you need them, you load them into a ship. Like *real* missiles.
- Also auto-builders on ships, *shoot 1 at a time,* which is *100% useless* as each individual gets intercepted - and it's the *swarm* that makes a difference.
- If you have an automatic building mechanism the *connector* is useless - just have direct conveyors to the H2 tanks, and once built shoot conveyors them off. Saves you PCU on missile.
- Build H2 tanks with "Stockpile ON" and upon launching auto-switch to "Stockpile OFF" This way when welded from projector they will auto-fill.
- Missile pushed out by a piston (un-merge once fully out of ship) and activate - won't need override thrusters, saves PCU and components.
You do not need to use 2 engines to propel you, simply use a recursive call to reduce thrust override. And set the recursive call to execute immediately
You don't need bigger spacing, just timer blocks in the ship timing release of missiles to make sure they don't collide. So for example if you have 3 rows of 10 missiles numbered from front to back it would release odd numbered missiles in right row, even numbered missiles in middle row and odd numbered missiles again in the left row and one second later all that is left in the missile bay. This way you added one missile width worth of space without sacrificing the amount of missiles carried.
In theory:
Instead of having the two thrusters. Wouldnt it be feasable to have 1 thruster set by default to have thruster override + Two timer blocks: 1. engages after X seconds giving the missile time to leave the bay on override, 1st. timer then triggers the 2. timer block which is set to decrease thruster override and trigger itself (loop).
That would deactivate the thruster override in a really short time, giving the AI control of the single thruster again.
Cost is then 2 timer blocks (or possibly one if you already have a timer set to trigger after launch) instead of extra thruster and conveyor complexity
Edit: You could probably add the 2. timer block to the sensor by adding range to its rear and look for leaving the ship its launched from, or the exit timer block instead of supplying the 1. timer mentioned above.
As a novice space engineer player, do you think you could do a build tutorial step by step instead? I really wanna build this but I barely understand your narration of the constructed missile
I usually set my warheads to armed and use the destruction of the crash to detonate the warheads, has been working really well.
This does work but I find that when the missiles go to fast the break before exploding.
@@LastStandGamers I'm loving these new AI blocks, to many possibilities haha.
I want to set up a test range and try different warhead placement (eg front or rear of missile) and see if there's any differences.
All fun and games until a launch failure turns your own ship into smithereens
It is a nice design, though it is a bit excessive. Also there is no real practical reason to carry those missiles in silos of any sort, in fact placing them on the ship's exterior is much safer and you don't need as many timer blocks. The drawback of player-made missiles is that it's problematic to hit a target, which even if can't outmaneuver them, might just shoot down them with turrets. I've actually seen a tank with a custom autocannon turret on top of the main one that could shoot down a barage of 4-5 missiles. So yeah, even if you are sure that your target can't dodge them, you need to launch a lot of them at once to increase hit probability
Awesome! Maybe have collision avoidance on at first, then turn it off after 3 seconds or so, just to cover that period where they are all turning.
Now comes the race to see who can design and build the best anti missile systems for ships so that my thousand hour ship build doesn’t immediately get destroyed by one of these missile swarms
Railgun custom turrets work pretty well for one incoming target. The charging is too slow for multiple though.
Lots of turrets, good fire arcs, and make sure they're all set to engage small grids.
@@watchwood until you run out of ammo or until enough turrets get knocked out. His ship can just print and fire new missiles almost indefinitely , you need a way to stop the launchers
@@chrissegee That ammo question goes both ways. His supply of building materials will have upper limits too. But yes, shooting back is indeed a good idea.
@@watchwood Maybe a mixture of good point defense dedicated turrets and makeshift chaff? Like some batteries on merge blocks that can be dropped out the back of the ship.
interesting - I build some a few days ago, but instead of detonating the warhead straight away, i started its detonation timer - about 10s - to use the torpedoes as a kinetic projectile to punch through lesser armor with a boom afterwards - either on the hull, or somewhere inside the ship
i didn't use any side-thruster though to fit in more warheads (32)
Would take some more setup but it would be cool to have them ripple fire instead of all in one launch. Would also make it so you don't need to increase the spacing.
I think the best compromise between having a big alpha strike and sustain would be a largish missile battery that's preloaded but needs manual reloading once fired and 2-4 auto reloading tubes. Like with your 30 missile design have the main battery fire in groups of 3. Launch as many groups as needed to overwhelm a target and use the reloading tubes when you dont need as many in the air at one time.
You could use an artificial mass block and grav generator for the initial push out of the tube.
What if we add grav engine to missile instead?
Can you show a SAM setup for airdefense?
Hey LSG, every think about putting a couple small cargos filled with ammo on the missiles while having the warheads? Might make a bigger BOOM.
Another great video thanks!
I've got a missile that takes out a capital ship with 1 missile, currently on weapon core targeting though. goes through 145 layers of heavy armour
I wonder about using hybrid missles having a 2 part missle.
One part as a "carry" module
One part as the sprint vehicle
The missle starts by using its carry module to get close to its traget, once just outside of gatling range the sprint vehicle(s) detatch and approach with max speed.
(multiple sprint vehicles on a single carry module would work too)
This is a great idea could take it to the next level and have a jump drives set to multiple carriers they jump around the target and unleash hell overwhelming the defences.
This is what I wanted to see.
Me too more dakka
That no override thing was making me mad when I was trying to design my own missile for atmospheric ground launch GPS missiles wich would be good for taking on a base etc. From a long distance.... worked well ...
Hopefully they fix it and add a command to turn override on and off.
@LastStandGamers we can only hope they do! Would make for some interesting pices.... especially since my missiles have a max travel speed around 45 unless there's something to lock onto in atmosphere...
I am confused as to what the sensor does in this equation, you turn it on and arm the bombs. Did you set up a trigger to detonate the bombs with the sensor?
After building missile silos. I found you only need 1 welder & 2 rotors for every 2 missiles.
From what I tested, you could potentially fit six missiles for every 2 welders with 2 rotors.
Also, if all of your missiles are set up in a straight line with only 2 rows. then you'll only need 2 rotors for all missiles, with the welders lined up down the middle
This guide is fantastic. My only question now is regarding how to wire it in a way that missiles built with welders can be triggered. I've had issues figuring out how to do that, since I have to manually reset the missile launch key binding every time a missile is launched.
It's likely to do with the name of the block that you use to trigger everything not matching, make sure there the same and it will be tricked into thinking its the same missile
I just figured this out. In your missile, make a group that is just the launch timer, then bind the group to the control seat. That way when it rewelds, it will see it again.
That ANL printer at the end could be done on a rotor instead. After welding one up it could rotate 90 degrees to print missile 2 of 4. Keeping with that you could even have the welders flip 180 degrees and print a 2nd missile on every arm instead of 1. Totalling 8. You'd end up with far less subgrids and 8 spaced missiles.
That's a great idea there's always loads of cool ways of improving on designs in SE.
Any chance of getting a tutorial on how you made your missle bay on that ship? From the blueprint you referenced, i can make one...but howd you get so many lol
Thanks for the video
Just completed my own version of this. Got away with only two timer blocks. You mentioned using a timer to detonate the warheads, which is a great idea. Why not just use the countdown feature on the warhead block and save room for another block?
I'm going to have fun with this
kind of curious if we could do something similar to this, but for orbital bombardment. Would basically need to have a gyro to orient itself towards a target with some heavy armor blocks to absorb incoming shots. Could enable a fuse or arm the warhead a bit after launching or just have it as a solid torpedo, but unless you have a kinetic mod that would allow for the built-up force to damage stuff, I imagine it would do little... also I have little experience making stuff in Space engineers that damages with physical contact.
I’ve been trying this for a week now
Great video!
Hey I love the videos you make it brings joy and laughter it truly I'm terrible sorry to ask but is it possible if different console gamer join you on the server or is it only for PC console again sorry for asking
I have a ship that I was planning on doing something like this with. Should be fun to do!
Why arm the warheads early? Wouldn't it be better to arm them when they are closer to the target? that way if 1 or 2 of the warheads would be damaged that would not decomm the missile early.
If you use the timer option on the warhead and set the timer to 0 you could avoid having armed warheads at all. Set up the sensor to trigger the timer. It appears to be particularly effective against small grids since a near miss can take out half a fighter.
So noob question but i assume the sensors action would be to detonate right? I really haven't touched the sensor block in forever (find i can make automated stuff without it with scripts and groups)
Would be nice to see how efficient point defense miniguns would be against these.
you could set it up so another event controller detects when the tank is full so it can auto launch the second the missile is ready
Fix for needing two thrusters:
Timer block With “trigger now” on itself, and decrease override, have this activate on the second stage of your launch, Now it will launch up, then spam itself to turn the thrust override all the way off 👍
I just bought this game and the more videos I watch, the more intimidated I become. What is the best way to learn how to play the game effectively and have fun? Should I just watch videos until I'm confident or try my luck in multiplayer?
Adding a delay between each missile launch should help reduce collisions
Looking at it...... it needs a stagger fire i.e. 2 launches 2 blocks apart 6 second intervals for contunuous firing.
Need an ecliptic launch to maintain speeds,
Put an armored (head) on the missile for added penatrating power
Put the warhead on a timer to det after impact
Can be used to mess with a ships/stations flight angle, making it easier to high, though it would lose its damage potential.
Agreed moving forward I going to fits some timers to launch them in rows of three.
@LastStandGamers plus itll look VERY cool. Im a big gundam fan and if they aint got a name...... helldarts.
Great
Thankyou for commenting
a rotary magazine for a cruise missile launcher
Now that sounds tempting, Ill order 3 please.
i wanna see battle carrier with them vs carrier with railgun drones ^^
my bet is on drones :)
Great idea. Will try and make that happen.
Super cool
I wonder if it would be too much to put a mass block inside of the missile, and have gravity generators that push them out of the launch tube. You might need to make them 3 blocks wide just so the mass block can be at the center and you don't have to add 4 of them. Although it might be fine for a short distance and a temporary gyro override.
Yes this would work in space you could even have no thruster if you can trick the ai block to just use the gyro.
Instead of spacing the missiles out, give sets of them a 1-second delay.
Side note. I would like to know how well these work in combat and with a higher speed limit.
Combat test of missiles got it, is that against bases, large ships and small ships or did you have something else in mind ?
@@LastStandGamers Was not expecting a responce XD. I have been watching your videos since the time of Henry the ship.
You could 1v1 the same ship against itself. My main question is how often do the missiles hit their target when it is moving.
Does the ai missile need side thrusters or can I just use thruster on the back with a gyro to steer?
So you drones explode when low on fuel (event block) ? What if it didn't reach the target yet ?
instead of more spacing, could stagger when they are fired
Have you published a blueprint for your missile design?
Is it just me, or is the ship you’re using to launch the missiles based on one of the UNN battleships from The Expanse?
it kind of looks like the truman class ship
@@Huntertrapper9 yeah. But I don’t remember it having a ring at the midsection of the ship.
Missiles with warheads are useless if the target has turrets. The turrets shoot the warhead and destroy the missile before it gets there. It works to send rockets that are just armor blocks to ram and take out the turrets first, then fire missiles with warheads.
How do you get your missiles to launch from the launch pad? My button doesn’t work after it’s been used on one missile. Trying to mess around with event controllers but I can’t seem to figure that out at the moment either
seems like the best defense is a faster missile that draws all those targets back to its source or a missile that attaches itself to the enemy ship so it attacks itself i was toying with the idea of a missile with a decoy rotating system on it seems like that would be the worst thing to face
I just wanna comment to the missiles itself: You want a Warhead at the front, otherwise collision damage will destory the warhead before it can explode. It's said to be a bug but hasn't ever been fixed
You also need to consider enemy fire. you dont want your warheads to be easily destroyed so right at the front is a bit sketch but it does require testing to figure out the best placement.
From my experience at building in diverse games. You generally want your least useful components to be placed at the front to soak damage and the critical components to be further back.
@@archangel8172 Yeah, I know that, but you waste your warheads if you dont place at least 1 at the front to initiate the detonation otherwise, you have a kinetik driver
@@ThePringels09 There is a detonation sensor on it so not rly.
@@archangel8172 I has some issues with consistency when using sensor, but I might also just be incompetent
I bet arm launchers would be perfect, as VLS wastes energy. Something like the old launchers on the OHP Class.
I really want to see someone do Honor Harrington style missile pods
Hey LastStand. I have a suggestion for a space station. I wonder if it be possible to recreate ODIN from call of duty ghosts. It's a orbital kinetic bombardment station, meant destruction from space. Also great video, I've been getting into space engineers quite a bit, its quite nice break down too even though I'm confused asf.
I can see people using this method to make Kushan and Taiidan warships from Homeworld. Or even more ships with VLS systems
imagine a few of these ANL systems but they make those mini railgun ships
I made a guided floppy disk set up just like this xD
having problems with reprinted missles: if i reprint the missles the timerblocks (although they have the same name) are grayed out in the controllbar. they also don't react to timerblocks. is there a way around that?
I just figured this out. In your missile, make a group that is just the launch timer, then bind the group to the control seat. That way when it rewelds, it will see it again.
Question: The Launcher on the workshop somehow keeps the timer block on its toolbar each time a new missile is welded. When I try to replicate it, the timer block disappears from the toolbar after each launch. How does it stay on the toolbar?
I just figured this out. In your missile, make a group that is just the launch timer, then bind the group to the control seat. That way when it rewelds, it will see it again.
These are great but how do they work on Vanilla Servers? Not sure what the Block Limit for AI are
You can add all the AI blocks to your grid there is no limit to how many AI blocks you can have.
I want that missile printer...
how do you launch all your missiles without having to add all of them seperately to the hotbar?
Because when i want to launch missiles after having reloaded them won't launch anymore. Do I need to name something in a specific way or what do I need to do?
Got a message about this video thismorning. A friend thought this was 1 of my missiles because the name is similar to my faction tag LNA. I do have an old large grid TCB missile I made, but its outdated. I plan on making a new version soon as well as small missiles similar to this. I can see if I can fix that thruster issue if Jeje is alright with that
how would people counter this? anti missile missiles? web like missile barrier?
Probably missiles to intercept the missiles
CTC CIWS's 6x Gatling Guns inside a Ball turret and having multiple of them over your ship.
Do you have downloads for the ships used in this video?
Absolutely love this design, but trying to figure out how get the projector/welders to turn on, let the rocket build, then turn off automatically with a single button press has somehow stumped me 🤣
I'd like it it we built the missilses like in storm works with the fins n piping
I made it but it won't lock on to the enemy? It looks for the enemy but just goes of randomly in the opposite direction?
I am thinking now of an AI controlled boarding pod. 4-6 seats inside, 4 grinders facing forwards and a magnetic plate on sides to autolock the pod after it lodged itself into the breach. Then the players open front door that is in the middle of 4 grinders and into the breach we go, lads!
How do I make the Launch button outside of the missile. I can't stand next to the missile every time it reloads.
the anl-missile is launched by a button on the missile. but how can I trigger a timer on the missile from my ship? If I try to trigger the timer block from a cockpit block it works only the first time and when the missile is rebuild it isn't the same timer block anymore and I have to reassign it.
why is it using hydrogen engines? Wouldn't ion make it more compact?
You can also set a printer to make tiny drones instead of missiles