The Rule of Two System Was FLAWED like its Creator Darth Bane
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- The Rule of Two has guided the Sith for centuries, but at its core is a flawed idea created by a flawed man Darth Bane.
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Alan's new haircut make him look like a rebellion leader fighting against an evil regime in a post apocalyptic video game
Or he is the hipster psychotic villain in a post apocalyptic video game who may or may not be the dictator in an evil regime.
It's part due to his jacket though
I saw that right away too lol!
It is a really nice haircut.
he's joined the cyberpunk life
I'm so glad you addressed Bane's incorrect view of the Dark Side. Your channel was recommended to me because I've watched a lot of Geetsly's videos, and every time he mentions the Rule of Two he quotes Bane's stupid idea about how the Dark Side is like venom and the more users it has the more diluted it becomes. That _never_ made any sense to me. If the Dark Side became diluted as more people used it, the Brotherhood of the Sith (and the hundreds of Sith lords and Sith apprentices who came before) never would have been a threat in the first place.
When you flaws create a system to destroy you enemies
The best part about Bane is he bit off someone’s thumb
That drunk miner had it coming tbh
he also kinda looks like a thumb lmao
What?!
He was the Bane of the miners day....
Hahahahahaha
I feel like by only numbering two the Sith had an advantage in the Jedi thinking they were all gone allowing them to prosper in the shadows which couldn’t have been done in a large group
He also got the rule of two reinforced by the teachings from Revan’s holocron in that no master should teach more than one apprentice because the lesser Sith would band together and defeat the stronger, then slaughter themselves until one remained weakening the order with every succession
I think the 1 master, 1 apprentice was a smart system for the Sith. Just don't build a whole system off of it
@@atomicash2475 fair point
Honestly curious
What kind of system do you think would work better?
@@knightwolf1866 Weak lowbies teach the basics to multiple Sith Apprentices, either he gets killed by a better Sith who then gets promoted to a TRUE master for 1 on 1 training or he eventually slays his treachorous students becoming stronger in the process. Seems like a win-win to me.
The point of your thinking is the same of Rule of Two.
One time or other the apprentice kills its master and take his place, leaving only one Sith, wich have to search for a new apprentice.
But the point of going in the shadows to avoid the Jedi attention is WAY BETTER than just burning every single planet that you pass on...
the ancient sith survived for much longer without the need for just two sith at a time, besides sidious destroyed the republic for only less than three decades
I always figured Rule of Two was stupid for the very basic reason that it made the whole thing one tiny accident from extinction. One trip down the stairs, one punch in the back of a head from a drunken jerk, one starship crash, one brain annyeurism, one speeder accident, one lost fight.
RoT also encouraged a lot of perverse incentives. For example, deliberately withholding knowledge or deliberately misteaching it so the master can save their own skin. Then there's going to be knowledge lost over time, especially if an apprentice does the master in early. Then there's the huge risk with if the apprentice dies during the duel.
And because RoT was based not on becoming better Jedi defeaters, but instead on basically learning just enough to commit an effective murder, those who did best in the system would be Sith who focused on killing each other and hogging the power, which was exactly what it was meant to prevent. The most powerful Sith doesn't necessarily win in RoT, the more devious one who strikes first does. All the game does is incentivize turning on each other even harder.
Simply put, it was an absolutely moronic system that should have never been implemented.
That was exactly Bane´s idea though, he wanted the Ro2 to be Gazelle intense focused on Survival, which would mean the teachings of the Sith would be carried out. This is why Modern sith were terribly powerful with Force Visions.
The Sith plotted for a millennia to defeat the Jedi, only for them to return within 20 years and undo everything they’d worked for.
Only because of Palpatine's hubris, not because of the Rule of Two.
@@vetarlittorf1807 I agree, Palpatine's hubris really was the downfall of the Sith
Lets not forget, Sidious killed Plagueis while Plagueis was meditating/sleeping, hardly the act of a worthy successor, to have so little faith in his ability to kill his master he had to wait until he was distracted or unconscious
Though conversely Plagueis was also at fault, he wanted to do to Sidious what Sidious ultimately did to Vader.
He (Plagueis) also didnt really put up enough of a fight when Sidious attacked, and ore or less allowed himself to be defeated
Thus the Rule of Two was already broken, the weak apprentice had taken the mantle of master without deserving it
I know someone will argue that "Palpatine wasnt weak", but if he was truly powerful he would have faced his master like a man and had confidence enough in his own power to defeat him
This was because Palpatine wasnt good enough, not because the system was flawed.
The rule of 2 lead directly to Palpatine and minus plot armor the end of the Sith. If the Sith goal was power, there is no power in oblivion and this system ultimately failed.
@@isty4491 If you read the Novel, Plagueis died poorly against Sidious case his master Tenebrous downright stated he lowballed Plagueis training so he could take him over with Maxichlorians
I strongly agree with this and have felt this way for a long time. I don't like it when things work only due to writers fiat. By all logic the "rule of two" should have failed and failed hard. I never understood why midichlorians bothered people and this didn't. It is a good a way to explain SWUs magic system (let's face it force powers are basically magic) as any. The amount of magic that would be needed to make the "rule of two" work is staggering.
"He painted his eyes like a raccoon and had this big ass bald dome piece" I laughed too hard at that comment.
It literally always has looked ridiculous; like if Goldust quit wrestling and picked up a lightsaber, or if Bruce Willis was a bit too into Alice Cooper.
there are only 2:
1) the master, to embody the knowledge; &
2) the apprentice, to seek the knowledge;
2) the side apprentice, to replace the official apprentice;
2) the Sith Assassin, to follow the master's order & be another failsafe.
And they needed Sith Assassins to carry out Jedi and political assassinations so...
Itd be cool if we got a story of a sith who rejects the rule of two and attempts to start the sith empire again. Better than the diet cola empire that is the first order
I am more a fan of the rule of one... The One Sith of Death Krayt.
Me too
Krayt was a idiot pretender.
@@TheRezro don't forget Palpatine also wanted to reinact the rule of one
@@olmeno Rule of One is pretentious BS. Rule of Two did have practical reasons, but neither master ever actually wanted to be replaced.
@@TheRezro if anything Bane was the pretender, he weakened the Sith to near-extinction, only because he wasn't a team player and couldn't think pragmatically (there is a dialogue where he dismisses a careful attack plan just to basically suggest "nuke them from orbit and be done with it" despite the fact that doing so would deprive the Sith from the planets resources).
So that's the reason why some people prefer to Ancient Sith and Darth Revan's teachings of the Dark Side than Darth Bane's Rule of Two.
The Ancient Sith and Sith from the Old Republic era like Vitiate, Darth Nihilus, Darth Revan & Darth Malgus are so powerful that later Sith Lords like Darth Bane, Darth Sidious & Darth Vader were like noobs.
I'm loving "Darth Willis".
Yep! That's why I follow the Rule Of One, One Sith lord/Master until the end of time or when there era ends and new one *Must* take there place. The way it works is similar to the *Rule Of Two* except there is no limit to how man people or apprentice can learn the ways of the *Dark Side,* however *The One Sith lord/Master* is the only one who can choose who will take the mantle of *Sith.*
Note: Not *The One Sith lord/Master* dose not need to only willed just the *Dark Side, The One Sith lord* can also be a *Light Side Sith* or a *Grey Sith* if they so choose that aliment.
@Samuel Dimmock The closest you get are the Imperial Knights, who give their allegiance to the Fel Empire, functioning as a sort of Praetorean Guard, including killing the Emperor if they fall to the Dark Side. The One Sith's attempt to infiltrate and rebuild fell to a resurgent Rule of Two Darth, who ended up getting the Sith wiped out entirely after being shot to death by a smuggler.
@Samuel Dimmock Krayt was killed by Case Skywalker, Wredd was disarmed in the literal meaning by an Imperial Knight, and then shot.
It really wasn't that flawed, considering it resulted in the Sith winning. Then Palpatine basically stopped following it and didn't want Vader getting more powerful, and it resulted in defeat.
> wasn't that flawed
>Palpatine basically stopped following it
This is why it was flawed, literaly every sith lord before him could have failed or stoped following it, and it would result in defeat. He was exception that proves the rule, in this case, he was prove of two rule weakness.
@@rawpotato7585 Nope. Palpatine created his on ideology called the Rule of One. It's not the Rule of 2 that was flawed but Palpatine's mindset of thinking he is going to live forever.
@@themelanhiorder3461 This only makes it better, immediately after throwing away the rule of two the syth becomes successful, looks like a clear picture to me. The Rule of Two just Ceased to Exist
@@rawpotato7585 Nope. Because the Rule of 2 is what got him to the level of Emperor. It wasn't until sometime into being the Emperor that he created the Rule of 1 and then he gets dropped by Vader who was adhering to The Rule of 2. Need I say more.
@@themelanhiorder3461 Well, it would be a good point, but you can justify everything with this kind of argument. Like: jedi's are the best syth's because half of were jedi's in the past. Sounds idiotic, but this is basically the same level of cope you use to justify the rule of two. The Only Reason Syth Won(for first 20 years) is Because Palpy Turned the Rule of Two Down for Something that Works. The rule of two only weakened syth overall and almost put them to the extintion, it was reall bad as it was pinnacle of darth Bane's mind, who was traitor to all the Syth, and were laughed by others lord of syth. It's not bad to betray other Syth's, but no one ever will tell you that this was good scheme, it was extremely dependant on luck(for whole milenium!), and in the end it was dumped in the trash, to turn to something that works.
Palpatine ruled for 20 years and got killed along with his apprentice. Did it really work. Especially when you look at time having worked in the grand scheme of things. It didn't even last a full generation
Rule of one>rule of two
Rule of zero = Anarchy
Roger-roger
Looking sharp with that new hair cut!
The way I see it, the Force sensitives who draw on the dark side get some crazy ideas on how life should be lived, whether they carefully gave it thought or not.
Me seeing a video by Generation Tech posted in four hours:
A surprise to be sure but a welcome one
To be clear Sith'ari wasn't like Chosen One. It literally was the same prophecy! Qui Gon learn about it from Dooku, who did consider himself as such. Sidious skillfully used it to manipulate the Jedi into becoming his apprentices and he even mislead Plagueis
, about true nature of Anakin as his clone.
I just commented on another video asking for a Bane video lol. I love this channel. Keep it up bro!
Bane used a ritual to attack the Jedi with the force, and later used the thought bomb ritual to kill the entire Brotherhood of Darkness, and a hundred Jedi. He learned both of these rituals from Darth Revan's Holocron, and he also got the idea of the rule of two from Revan's holocron. Those two things aren't exactly in alignment. "Let me teach you some rituals that require a big group of Sith lords, and also there should only be two Sith lords at any given time."
Loved this video a lot of people will simp over this system,but I always thought it was flawed it doesn't take into account for the possibility of failure,it assumes its own victory but what if the master and apprentice die the entire line ends and most of sith knowledge and traditions with them.
plus the rule of two wasn't more powerful in my opinion just more knowledgeable, Palpatine knew ancient sith techniques which made him formidable ,while sith before bane had to be stronger as the thousands of other sith would challenge them until their eventual death forging terrifyingly strong sith through combat it also pushes them to never stop searching for more strength and knowledge as even if you have become a master they're were always others at your level
It was very unlikely for the master and apprentice to both die at the same time. Even if the master died before bestowing all their knowledge they kept contingencies like holocron that unlocked after their death. If the master died prematurely then the apprentice would carry on and while it was a setback it always not the end of the sith. And what’s more is that while bane was formidable you can’t take on all 1000 other brotherhood sith because they would team up with one another.
Think about Ventress and Savage vs Dooku. If Dooku was the dark lord at the time and they killed him then the next dark lord would be weaker then the last one.
Everything about the Sith was broken and flawed. Not that the Jedi where all great and wonderful, but the Sith were constantly self-destructive. The fact that they keep betraying themselves over and over again and creating suffering for themselves and everyone around them, they weaken themselves and breed room for enemies to rise up.
To be fair every philosophy has flaws.
But Darth bane never actually stopped believing in the rule of two. Essence transfer was more of a contingency in his eyes, in order to prevent the order from failing before it really began. He thought zannah wasn't following the rule of 2 & willing to challenge him
Whoever sold you this script read the cliff notes of the bane series and called it a day 😂
A lot of these are fair points but clinging to life wasn’t based around desperation. He was going to use every weapon he had to kill zannah to make her prove she was worthy to be the master of the sith.
His essence transfer was originally meant to ensure he wouldn’t “age out” of being the Sith Lord. Not to make him the permanent with lord
^ Agreed.
He never cared about immortality. He simply wanted to extend his life for the good of the Sith.
The essense transfer doesnt make him invincible. He can still be killed by his apprentice if he is weaker, and so the Rule of Two is not broken.
Yeap. Pretty disturbed people.
I'm curious how the battle of Endor would have turned out if Grand Admiral Thrawn was there.
(freakin Ozzel ... and Piett, the fool...... I mean c'mon Empire, bring your A-Game to the showdown!)
Hmm . . . Any Sith, though not entirely through Dark Side methods (referencing the MMORPG “Star Wars: the Old Republic”, which technically includes “Knights of the Old Republic”’s game mechanics), sought Power with little to no Bloodshed?
Bane never believed himself to be the Sith'ari. In fact, he didn't believe in such a thing. His encounters with the supposed Sith'ari Siraak led him to discredit the idea. It was the people around Bane who thought he might be, but then again, they all died because of him, so...
I feel the rule of two had much merit. We never found out if later sith had refined it in any way (the movies didn't breath as much life into the sith as they had the jedi). One (valid) criticism was the infighting that happens when large number of sith congregate. Whether it was the dark side itself or the mentality required to be sith they tended to not get along. The idea was to reduce infighting and better focus on destroying the jedi. It worked. Instead of apprentices killing each other or mobing a master the duo could keep on task. When the apprentice became a master (or enough of a threat) the infighting would surface again and the sith would 'decrease by one' for a little bit. Obviously some masters had more than one apprentice and some talented apprentices had apprentices but (by large) most sith only knew one other sith.
In Legends, the Rule of Two was eventually supplanted by the Rule of One: Many users of the dark side, but only one true Dark Lord of the Sith - Darth Krayt, himself a fallen Jedi who survived Order 66 and fell to the dark side completely while being tortured by the Yuuzhan Vong and influenced by the similarly fallen Jedi Vergere. Under the Rule of One, Sith Masters would be slain by their apprentice as a test of their devotion to Darth Krayt. Darth Bane (via his holocron) predicted that the Rule of One would be the downfall of Krayt, which it was, as his Vong implants were killing him, and his quest for healing/immortality caused his closest advisors to question him, leading to Darth Wyyrlok III assassinating him for letting his quest for healing get in the way of subjugating the Galaxy. However, being sent to the edge of death gave Darth Krayt the knowledge he so desired, enabling him to resurrect himself, sans Vong crab armor. Cade Skywalker still managed to kill Darth Krayt permanently by stabbing him in the chest and flying his body into Coruscant's sun to be vaporized, because Krayt did not have Sidious' mastery of Essence Transfer, this got rid of him for good. The Rule of One failed the Sith completely when the last adherent to the Rule of Two, Darth Wredd wiped out the remaining One Sith in the effort to restart the Banite Order, only to be killed by the smuggler Ania Solo, who shot Wredd in the chest. (Which has an interesting parallel since in Legends, Palpatine's final body was killed by Han Solo.) Ania herself is a distant cousin to the Skywalker family of the time, and has no apparent Force sensitivity.
If I was Disney, abandoning the sith Rule of Two would probably be my first action. It severely limits writers. It's why they had to tiptoe around with Ventress, Savage or the Inquisitors not actually being sith, it is why they had to revive Maul, it is why they had to revive Palpatine. And now that Palpatine is dead for good (I hope), as is all sith, with no one to teach and sith knowledge being hard to access, there is simply no way to bring about a new sith lord as well-versed in the Dark Side as he was. Rey was the only force-user who self-taught herself to be a master, and even that was lame.
The rule of two, which is stupid, came about because other nerds were trying to explain why only the emperor and Darth Vader existed. It's just dumb. That's why the old republic lore is so much more fun.
Dont speak if you know nothing.
@@rhian6459 I started laughing when I realized you are being serious.
@@godzilladestroyscities1757 U havent read the books if u think it is stupid. Revan himself is what gave Bane the inspiration to make the rule of two.
@@rhian6459 Dude, it's fictional. You're not supposed to take this shit seriously. Stop being a fucking nerd.
@@godzilladestroyscities1757 Ur statement was an utter contradiction so I had to correct it.
Funny i just finished the bane trilogy a few days ago great books but I completely agree with this analysis nice video
"If all are equal then none are strong". Did anyone else feel bad for the Bouncers?
The brotherhood of darkness was doomed from their formation. Khan was using mind manipulation to keep the brotherhood together. Bane did what was necessary.
You read the book Rule of Two?
What do you think if plaptine never was in the clone wars how would have it gone? And the future of the sith and Jedi be? Maybe newer Dreadnoughts and you ship classes if so what could it be?
the cis win
@@eightRedHerrings the separatists can still happen as many seperatist worlds had legitimate problems with the republic even before palpatine had any political power to pull strings
Wasnt there at least 3 around when Palpatine was coming up?
Always thought Kaan had a better system. Multiple sith, but essentially getting rid of ranks, so they aren't tempted to kill each other to gain rank.
I agree but I view that getting rid of the Darth title was a massive mistake on Kaan's end.
@@Vigriff Not really, Until Bane, very few used it. And could be more trouble than what it was worth. "Oh he calls himself Darth? There's one we have to kill." - Jedi probably. Hell even the first Dark Lord didn't use it.
There is a reason why Kaan lost so horribly and Bane won. There is a reason why the Rule of 2 is what destroyed the jedi order.
The brotherhood of darkness was utterly flawed, just like Kaan.
@@rhian6459 There was no "winning" and losing. And bane was a bit of an idiot. "Yeah I'll totally trust the force ghost of someone I just helped commit suicide, he couldn't possibly be setting me up in a trap."
@@maxxdahl6062 What are you referencing with the suicide part? Kaan? He was never a force ghost lmao. Sith cant have force ghosts.
The rule of two worked flawlessly, and it destroyed the jedi order just as Bane planned. It was only Palpatine's incompetence that allowed the Sith to be defeated once and for all, and for the jedi to rise again.
8:26 DOESN'T REALLY CARE ABOUT MENTORING PEOPLE? "join me and together we will rule the galaxy as father and son"
Darth Bane: the force will run out
Thanos: we're not so different you and I
To me, the biggest reason for the success of the Rule Of Two was the high standard of excellence it enforced. Even the most incompetent Banite Sith were still all time greats; you didn't get any unambitious Sith archeologists voiced by Neelix like you did under Revan or Vitiate.
What happened to the clone wars series? Is it done?
Darth Bane sounds like Sheldon Cooper
Wasn't 'Sher Kahn' the tiger bad guy in The Jungle Book?
Love the new cut Allen!
The rule of two is the stupidest excuse to limit a sci-if world in cinema history. I have hated it since I first heard of it decades ago.
U havent read the books mate. Dont talk when you know nothing, that just makes you look stupid and ignorant.
@@rhian6459 Are you trolling? Rhian? Once upon a time there were two galactic empires filled with force users. One side killed themselves so they could kill the other side. /facepalm
There is no way you can say that with a straight face and believe it makes sense.
There is a dichotomy in the Rule of Two philosophy and it is that the dark side is inherently selfish like George Lucas says, but Bane is pretty selfless for the good of the Order of the Sith and for the dark side. If the dark side is selfish how can a Sith give himself up like Bane did and how can he expect other Sith to sacrifice themselves for the dark side and the Sith. Sith Lords will inevitability try to become immortal like Plagueis or just not teach their apprentice like Sidious.
Eh I unno Bane mentions in the books he is surprised even as early as the rule of two book that he is butthurt she hasn't pressed him with an encounter. And when she does she jumps him with hetton and some umbara assassins.
what is the music at 3:30?
Rule of two is doomed from the first heir Bane choosed his apprentice wrong Bane also denied traditions and left korriban and its teaching while Vitiate's order embrace it Sith must embrace tradition for its future which vitiate did and that is main reason why ancients are stronger
Indeed
No-no, bane choose all his apprentices right force wise, what he failed was in teaching them to choose the proper apprentices themselves, this is why so many Ro2 sithlords 1st apprentice picks were so awful they had to go for a 2nd round.
Hi
Not to mention the fact that force sensitives were pretty rare. You might get some badass sith master who flat cant find a worthy apprentice. Sith are powerfull and dangerous as a rule but to reach the zenith of the dark side you have to be pure evil like a certain chancellor who may or may not be the Senate.
I’m glad for this video. Someone needs to remind us how flawed the Sith succession system was
Interesting theory
They should make a live action Darth Bane series, Bruce Willis would be perfect to play Darth Bane.
How wss it successfully? It took a thousand years for what 30 years tops of complete ruel it was also very close to never actually working
How does the iron man suit fair in the starwars universe
I normally enjoy the theories Behind these videos and ideas shared but this one is inherently wrong. A lot of Bank motivations are flat-out stated and the reasons that Alan comes up with this time seem to be nothing more than an educated guess just some of the things that aren't directly spelled out for you in the novels.
How would you fix the Sith Order than?
2:54 so basically sith capitalism where money is replaced by power
How dare you!?!?
Hold up are you really alan where are you keeping
Bane developed much of the Rule of Two philosophy from the holocron of Darth Revan. One of the most powerful sith ever. And it changed the Sith order for the better.
Reven who redeemed himself, and then fought said Empire?
darth bane didnt get to break the back of jedi batman?
No, but he did once get poisoned via lipstick.
What really is the “correct” way for the Sith to follow, in order for them to survive?
Not teaching each other backstabbing.
The rule of 2 is a perfect system. The reason the sith failed was because they were not strong enough - not because the system is flawed.
Nice haircut Alan 🙂
I love you using Bruce Willis as the go-to bald guy in place of Bane.
Vin Diesel would have been more fitting. :p
@@AethyrPrime Wouldn't work because rule of two isn't 'family'.
Pretty damn funny
we need a darth bane movie starring bruce willis
@@darrelb1561 if only Vin Diesel had BW's acting. He has the muscles for it. Oh, but Bane was like 2 meters tall before he joined the Sith's army. I'm pretty sure VD is just a buff midget.
You made one mistake here.
Darth Bane never stopped believing in the rule of two, it was in fact his fervent belief in it that lead him to seek out the essence transfer technique.
He lost faith in his apprentice, believing that she should have challenging him by that point. His body had started to degrade from dark side corruption and he feared that she had noticed this and had chosen to wait for an easier victory.
This was a direct violation of the rule of two and made her unworthy in his mind. But he also knew that he didn't have enough time left to find and train a worthy successor so the essence transfer technique was his only hope of preserving his sith order.
Exactly
MWBalls he wanted to learn the technique so Zannah would be forced to confront him, had he desired so, he could´ve just used it on the Echani or Healer´s daughter and take their bodies and ran away to train a new apprentice
@@sebas8225 you’re incorrect he stated he didn’t want her to know because that would be just a survival instinct if she fought him knowing she was about to be replaced.
@@THEOTHERGUY4421 True. I read about it. In the end , he simply did NOT want to die.
She barely managed to beat him with a technique that he knew nothing about. Even if he had been younger/stronger, he still would have met the same fate. Instead of accepting his loss, thereby adhering to the same rules that he had created , he tried to desperately cling to life.
This guy got it right. Bane was a screwed up individual. He let his personal life's experiences rule his decision making. The Brotherhood of Darkness _could have_ succeeded if he hadn't betrayed them.
@@dustinmaxwell259 I disagree and recommend you listen to the audiobooks as well cause he clearly states that he only wanted to learn it to find a apprentice worthy to carry on the Sith legacy. He stated multiple times he was waiting for her to challenge him but she seemed to be waiting for him to get weaker of age instead of who was stronger. She thought he was teaching her another lesson on patience. They were both misinformed on the others intent. Also I believe if the brotherhood did wipe out the Jedi they would just end up attacking each other again and like Bane said weaker Sith would team up against the stronger which would cause weaker and weaker Sith down the line.
The worst part of the Rule of Two... Is that it never planned for what to do *after* the Sith finally won. As such, the Sith never evolved as a culture or philosophy. Merely in techniques.
Well said.
What did you expect from a band of braindead cultists (much like the Jedi)?
Or what happens in case both are killed. Because there would be no one to teach and no one to learn. All that knowledge will be lost in time, like tears in rain. :D
@@bindair_dundat The Sith being wiped out would not matter. The Force would orchestrate their rise again, and there would always be fragments of Sith lore to be found. It happened before, it will happen again.
“We are Sith! We don’t fight in the forest, we destroy the forest!” -Darth Bane
^^^that is a paraphrase to make it sound cooler. The actual full quote is “he continued, bending down to study the troop positions and tactical layouts spread out before him. “Now look at this map and think like a Sith. Don’t just fight in the forest... destroy the forest!”” The context is that Lord Kaan was thinking more like a non-force sensitive general than a Sith, talking of flanking armies and air support when in Bane’s opinion he should have simply used the Dark Side to remove any obstacles in his way.
They are the trees
That quote proves he had no idea what he was talking about
@UCdmu84SR5xOhcfkjyNBmtDQ if you destroy the forest you destroy the possible resources you could get if you win the conflict not to mention that such drastic action can turn local population against you. I mean look at how successful USA was in Vietnam when they used those tactics. That quote sounds like those people who say let's just bomb them as a solution to everything.
@@olmeno would you like me to explain the entire Ruusan campaign to you? Basically the overview is that the population already hated the Sith so that is already done, wood is basically useless in the Star Wars universe so the only resources the planet had was the ores and minerals beneath the surface, and the Sith weren’t trying to conquer and hold the planet they were trying to kill the army of Jedi that was there.
@@codieomeallain6635 wood was used as a metaphor the planet can be used for resources but Palpatine wanted deathstar as a show of force even though he could kill all life on the planet with star destroyers saving money and Russia barely won while if better strategists were alive and not killed by Stalin they could win faster with their own casualties somewhat decreased.
The biggest problem I saw right away with the rule of 2 is that it requires Sith Lord's to put the Dark Side itself above themselves, which is unlikely. The Sith put individual power above everything else.
"One to wield the force the other to crave it". I can't imagine wanting to give up the power once you gain it.
@@robert48044 what if you’re about to die?
@@KlaxontheImpailr you cling on to what’s keeping you alive harder? We see this with palpatine both in canon and the comics
@@robert48044 agreed sith are self centered and greedy jedi are far more willing to pass on what they have learned to thier apprentice and risk thier lives for the greater even if it means telling thier apprentices to sacrifice them if nessacery
It was a guide line for the survival of the sith and due to the greed inherent in the system that allowed it to survive
He also had to understand that Sith lords are selfish, they didn't care about the cause, they wanted immortality and power for themselves .
So Darth bane had a Rousseauian view on the sith
Yes, but that's precisely why the Banite Sith cared about their cause. The Rule of Two gave them a sense of immortality and power because it allowed them to become stronger than ever before without worrying about infighting.
He wasn’t “clinging to life” as such. He did look for a way to transfer his soul to a younger body, but he did so because he was getting old and believed that his apprentice Darth Zannah was simply waiting for him to die of old age rather than proving her strength by killing him. His intention was to kill her and start over but he needed more time so he looked to extend his life long enough to do so. It wasn’t true of course. Zannah was simply trying to identify her own apprentice before she took a chance and killed the only other Sith. She eventually explained this to him but by that point he had already found and accepted Darth Cognus as the next Sith apprentice, thus leading to their duel. Eventually Zannah attempted to use sorcery to destroy Bane’s body but before she could finish he attempted to transfer his soul into her body, essentially challenging her to a battle of wills which Zannah won.
I don't know why people don't mention this part.
@@winglessmecha what part? The part where he accepted his death as a necessary progression rather than being a hypocrite and trying to live forever? People don’t talk about it because as cool as he is, Bane is still the bad guy. And because of that the perception is he has no honour.
@@codieomeallain6635 yeah that part...and the part where Zannah took her sweet time to wrestle the title of dark lord from him
I still like to believe he took Zanah's body, it would just take time for him to gain full control....
Once he found the essence transfer, he wanted to live forever-as would any living organism.
@@codieomeallain6635 how is wanting to live forever a lack of honor?
This is a great video. There's a lot of blind love and "myth" around Bane without fans thinking too deep over his attitudes or philosophies. The Bane Trilogy might be a great read, but I really don't think he is the Sith'ari he believes himself to be. He made the Sith stronger not because of his Rule of Two, but in spite of it. The Thought Bomb allowed the Sith to hide, to become the galactic cancer it was by the time of the Prequels and THAT was what made the Sith so dangerous. Bane's one great act was the Thought Bomb.
Ok Kaan Apologist.
@@revantobias8567 ok Bane Supporter
@Samuel Dimmock Lucas never explained "the Chosen One" thing, and any supplementary material is generally written backwards in an attempt to make Anakin fit the prophecy.
The problem is if defeating the Sith is ALL the Chosen One is supposed to do, then BANE fits the prophecy by convincing them to use the Thought Bomb. Bane is the one who gave the Force "balance" (as far as Lucas sees it) for almost a thousand years!
And ironically, your point about Anakin being the Sith'ari has a case. It was Anakin's fall and then the destruction of Palpatine that eventually led to Krayt's One Sith. Arguably a far more dangerous reborn concept of the Sith than what's gone before.
@Samuel Dimmock I don't think redeeming the Sith is possible. Not and still have them being Sith. The first Kotor game has a great sequence where you can "redeem" one of the Sith trainers on Korriban. She wanted to free slaves but always felt she wasn't powerful enough to make that change in the galaxy, so she kept looking to become more powerful. Only, she never even attempted to free slaves, she became fixated on the power increase and the slaves would be "eventually." You can have her realise this, and she becomes a Jedi.
I think Lucas and Star Wars is a great example of Death of the Author. Lucas' concept was that the Light Side of the Force = the Force itself, with the Dark Side being something that shouldn't exist. It's a very black/white philosophy. The problem is that his work comes across as more of a triad system - Light, Neutral, Dark.
You've got Mace Windu who creates a lightsaber Form that allows him to manipulate the Dark Side without it corrupting him, you've got the Night Sisters who are Dark Side users without being galaxy-conquering psychos. You've got Anakin who, despite all the evil he committed as Vader, still sacrificed himself for his son.
On the flip side, you've got Light Side Jedi who were fine with using what was effectively a slave race as cannon fodder with most Jedis not even seeing them as "real" people. You've got the Order who made so many mistakes through their arrogance and who ended up supporting the Republic rather than the ideals the Republic stood for. All of this is without looking at any material Lucas didn't have a direct hand in (Legends, Disney stuff).
My point is that there are massive areas of grey. Heck, the Ones make no sense if Lucas' views on the Force are true. If there are only the Light and Dark sides, what is the purpose of the Father? As a middle balancing point? If the Chosen One prophecy was about destroying the Sith/Dark Side, why wasn't the brother seen as someone who needed to die?
So I really don't think we can take much of what Lucas says as 100% real when it comes to the franchise. His views on how the Force works compared to how he showed us it worked doesn't line up at all. And this goes especially for Anakin being the Chosen One.
@Samuel Dimmock I absolutely agree with you about the Force groups not always representing the alignment they follow. It's one of my main problems with the Order.
That's an interesting take on Balance. You're right in that each side doesn't have to be equal in worth - A "small" amount of the Dark Side could "weigh" far more than the same "amount" as that of the Light (quotation marks because of the nebulous nature of a metaphysical energy). But Lucas would say you were wrong. Lucas would say that Balance only happens when there's no more Dark Side. You see the point of my rant? What Lucas imagined doesn't properly fit with the way he presented it.
Your way of thinking would allow for the slippery slope falling that we see happen. People use the dark side on a very small scale, but they then take moral shortcuts and start using it on the larger one, messing themselves up as they go.
I absolutely agree that balance =/ equality when it comes to numbers. To use your example, the Republic had fallen into a quasi-small dark side mentality where it was all about the individual desires and obsessions rather than about helping those beneath them. To extrapolate, this would mean Balance is a tearing down of the old order so that a better Republic can be built which fights against slavery, oppression and everything else. And this definition actually allows for Anakin to be that person - his turning on the Order allowed the Empire to rise and then the New Republic (legends, not the Mouse's monstrosity) to rise, attempting to be better than what came before.
But again, this works with a perception of the Force Lucas doesn't believe in. And is why I circle back and say we can't use his philosophy as what is the truth in the SW universe despite him creating the franchise.
Always loved the Darth bane book series, path of darkness is one of my favourite books of all time, I also love bane's character and story, but I never liked his philosophy. I always thought his attitude is what brought down the sith ultimately. Yeah the rule of two managed to eventually destroy the Jedi but they only ruled for 20 years and were then wiped out by the Jedi, ultimately failing after a thousand years of planning. Had bane actually given his knowledge and abilities to Kaans cause they could have actually wiped out the Jedi on rusaan and steamrolled through the rest of the republic and achieved victory without the thousand years of waiting, and with the sith order intact and devoid of most infighting, might have actually ruled the galaxy for a lot longer than 20 years.
The problem with the Ro2 is that Bane didnt really fixed the Grey or Light sith problem, there were still Ro2 sithlords who´d go against his sith vision.
Lord Kahn didnt have natural charisma. he was a master of battle meditation so he actually had the force ability to make ppl like him more. Speechcraft +100
I always found the Rule of 2 hilarious since plenty of Sith like Vader had a ton of secret apprentices, Palpatine had apprentices and clones of himself, and none of the Sith really limited themselves in size. It's also kind of self defeating having only 2 members if you want to conquer the galaxy, and all the successful Sith armies had loads of Darths and Sith (even Palpatine went through a bunch of apprentices, who in turn had apprentices, and allied groups of dark side users like the Night Sisters).
The Rule of Two is pretty weird. On the one hand, I get that smaller numbers meant more stealth from the Jedi and less chances of infighting. On the other hand, two members feels way too low a number and infighting is still inevitable given the whole "master and apprentice must try to kill the other" thing.
@@johnnygyro2295 but it made them so much stronger resulting palpantine could casually butchers most jedi, it was anti thessis of vitiate era of empire with numerous siths and basically dark siders communism of khan brotherhood of darkness.
@@jalpat2272
If Palpatine could casually butcher most Jedi, then why use a Clone Army for the purge?
Vader was never supposed to have apprentices, at the same time. The Force Unleashed series is a fraud and shouldn't be canon.
@@johnnygyro2295 it’s like how dark bane had to kill the other sith with the thought bomb even if someone could kill hundreds of Jedi he would eventually lose to the huge difference in numbers
Darth bane the original introvert
also the biggest moron in the history of the Sith and they have had many of those...
@@marcialhd He´d be stomp-killed by Kreia
@@sebas8225 any competent force user would kill him, he only survived that long because of plot armor.
The rule of two was okay until the Empire was in place.
Once your enemy is entirely aware of you and a smaller guerilla force having more sith (like the inquisitors but properly mentored in the darkside instead of converted & then barely trained) to hunt down rebel cells and enforce your will upon multiple planets simultaneously would have been far more beneficial than a single super sith that can not deal with everything you need him for all at once because he can only be in one place at a time.
Even the Inquisitors would have worked as long as:
1. You had enough of them. (Sidious didn't.)
2. You had a plan in place in case the main Master and Apprentice were killed.
Easiest way to handle that is a contingency that calls all surviving Inquisitors to a secret location. Force them through a contest leaving one obvious victor. Once the strongest is determined that victor is given access to all the accumulated Sith Holocrons and other knowledge so the Sith continue through them. Probably want some way to make that Inquisitor/Sith Lord the new emperor also.
@@joshuahogan3475 Palpatine would never allow anyone to replace him. He set up the Empire explicitly to burn in the event of his death. Palpatine was the end result of the Rule of Two: A Sith believing himself the pinnacle of the Sith, and ensuring that he never be replaced. His first Apprentice was meant to be only an extension of his will. His second Apprentice was meant to provide a public face for the enemy, and be discarded once his final Apprentice was ready, a far more powerful extension of his will, who could nevertheless not hope to replace Palpatine as the Sith Master, through a combination of hoarding knowledge and psychological dependence.
@@Janoha17 which is another reason the Rule of Two failed. Besides, I wasn't talking about what Palpatine did, I was talking about what he SHOULD have done if he truly believed in the Sith and the Empire.
As you said, Palpatine was the ultimate culmination of the Rule of Two. And he ultimate proof of it's fragility.
Looks like someone pulled Bane's mask off
it must've been extremely painfull
He's a big guy
Robyk11 4U
@@kenetickups6146 was constructing the Thought Bomb part of your plan?
@@ikariyabiollante867 Of course
@@RbkARI well congratulations, you constructed the Thought Bomb! Now what's the next step in your master plan?
The rule does expose itself to a lot of chance, but with The Force chance isn't what we perceive it to be.
That's exactly it, thanks!
"There is no chance or fate, there is the force."
should be the final message of every orders codex.
Bane created the Rule of two to prevent the sith order from becoming incredibly weak, his logic stated that a group of students would attack and kill the head of the order and eventually those students would betray each other so one could have all the power but be weaker than the previous Lord. This cycle would repeat itself until the Sith Lord in charge is so unbearably weak that the Sith Order can’t possibly continue
This is so spot on. Explains the giant flaws of the rule of two and why it was so ineffective, prolonged and certain failure.
In reality there are cases where both individuals kill each other. That would ended it as would a lot of situations such as one dying and the other defecting.
If it was so ineffective then why did it allow the Sith to become more powerful than ever before? Why did it allow the Sith to take over the galaxy and annihilate the Jedi?
@@vetarlittorf1807 The sith never took over the galaxy, the Empire with a pretend Sith leader did for a very small time frame. The Sith did not grow more powerful. Now imagine the Sith Empire of old waging war on the empire and I can guarantee who the Victor is 10/10 times and it's not the Empire of Sidious.
The reason Sidious managed what he did had nothing to do with anything related to the Sith but solely because of Kaminoan Clones. Still he failed and not even coming as close as Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion who when done had less living Jedi left then after Order 66 and the Jedi Purge.
The rule of twos success rested on the Sith hiding themselves as being ashamed of what they where as if they where extinct, even after the Empires fall the galaxy didn't know of Sith except in legends.
The rule of twos only success was hiding a Jedi amongst its ranks to ultimately destroy them and make the Sith extinct, such a great victory ending in its own eradication... Case closed.
@@vetarlittorf1807 plot armor.
@@vetarlittorf1807 It didnt, the Sith were individually more powerful but it didnt fix the problem with grey and light sith throughout the galaxy, this essentially guaranteed that the Rule would fail.
There's also what Palpatine did to his own master Plageaus. They toasted their victory time and again to one of the pivotal parts of the plan coming together and Sheeve kept his master's cup full with perfectly normal alcohol. A kind gesture that was not poison or even unexpected. Then when the old Muun was too drunk to defend himself Sheeve killed him well and truly before he had learned everything from him.
Finally a darth bane video 📷
The rule of two system was flawed like its creator darth bane
ouch, bane
If you don't understend the rule of two, is because you don't know "the true power of the dark side".
The dark side is all about hiden power and secrets. Having more than 2 sith is a good way to lost knowledge every time it is a power struggle. By having a master who is looking more power (knowledge) and a apprendice who is learning it, every generation is more powerfull. When a master is no longer giving nothing to the apprendice (for fear or not having anything to give), the apprendice HAVE to kill the master and he(r) must look for more power and secrets to past it on.
Bane is a gangster
While this video made me respect Darth Bane as how much strong, powerful and creative he is, I certainly won't respect him for creating the Rule of Two because this video opened my eyes to how much flawed this system is. He's just one of those many individuals who try to apply their own experiences to an organization that has been relying on many of mystical warriors and alchemists for hundreds and thousands of years, which in turned as an acutal justification for members of the Sith to actually to actively hunt and destroy one another. And with the Jedi and the Republic are on their tails, it soon developed into the bloodbath. The problem with Bane is that he is not the leader who is looking for the big picture for real, he is the leader who is looking for subjugation of others so he can feel better about himself. Sure, he justified that the Rule of Two existed to ensure the line of succession within the Sith as an organization. But when someone who has no interest of teaching become the master like Alan said, then that's a disaster for sure.
It sure was. But so was the brotherhood he was training under. So I can the lesser of two evils here. Even how ironic as that sounds.
I think Bane misunderstood Revan tbh. He conveniently looks over the fact that Revan went back to the light. A flaw that him and Kreia share apparently.
Oh thank god finnaly trashed Bane and put him into the his rightful place the garbage !
Darth Bane: Stop stealing the connection!
Githany: It's a shared broadband, idiot.
Dude in the thumbnail reminds me of lord chaos from skylanders🤣
I understand why a reformation of the Sith was necessary, and I understand the flaws of the Rule of Two, but I don't think any TH-camrs have done a video on a viable alternative to the Rule of Two. The fact is that the Sith had to operate in secret to survive AND we know the consequences of having more than two Dark Lords of the Sith (see Kreia's speech about the Sith Triumvirate and "dark places of learning where few dare to tread"); maybe two Darths but many lesser Sith agents would have been a more efficient system. That would provide for Force-sensitives to be planted in positions of power throughout the galaxy AND for a Master to seek a new Apprentice when one failed, or when Apprentice becomes the Master.