And yet, people will slag on Shimano or SRAM, who are not much more priced now that Chinese laborers are getting sick of slave wages, if their groupsets don't last 3 lifetimes. The double standard is ridiculous.
I ride 105 trek domane (sl5) and it has 20k on it in 1.3 years.@@cjohnson3836 Mechanically, I've replaced just about everything except the left shifter assembly (because it only gets used to stop, lol)
So if I had to make a conclusion of this whole project: - The frame when built is just fine, apart maybe from paintjob - The parts is a bit of a jungle, you can find gems but you might have more little problems with all sort of parts - Rim brake Elite seems to wear off quicker... Although, it really really depends on weather conditions you're driving in. And let's be honest, the UK isn't the most dry country there is 😛 So a bike with an Elves frame en disc brakes, maybe even Elite wheels, and a more normal setup (SRAM / Shimano) would just be fine I'd say? Well, it's something I'm saving for right now 🙂
I have that exact setup; Elves falath disc, 60mm Elite disc, Ultegra mechanical (good 2nd hand). No issues and rides like any big brand I've ridden before. Truly a carbon racing beast, especially with the crazy (custom) paint job you can put on there. Communication with Elves is pretty good too. Would definitely recommend, very good bike and quality for the total price
😂I just finished a bike with elves falath pro frame (Rim brake, just like Harry's). With the same groupset and off brand carbon wheels. My takeaway from this follow-up video is if you race a lot, then the Sensah groupset isnt a good option... But honestly, if only doing joy ride on this bike, will it last longer? And I'm also curious about his front derailleur, to me Sensah's derailleur need minor adjustments when installed new. is it dpwn to the type of crankset and chain he is using?
@@Xarx42 Hyper and Winspace I've also heard good things about. On the Elite I don't completely agree with you. As Harry mentioned in the video the hubs are reliable and nothing's failed on him. Many carbon repairers discourage using carbon wheels on rim brake bikes because you're degrading your wheels every time you brake. Also when descending in terms of braking power and heat buildup carbon is just not that great of a breaking surface. Maybe some wheel manufacturers have a less degrading braking surface but this is an issue all carbon rim brake wheels have.
i have a elves eglath with 11 speed 105, and some light bicycle wheels. their sizing is a bit weird for the eglath. i bought a size 50 frame, but its closer to a 52. its a tiny bit to big for me. buts its not a issue overall im very happy with it. rides nicer than my old alu rim brake bike
Impressive that £2k can buy kit that can hold up to a weapon like Harry for 20k miles. He's making a show with World Tour riders and getting top 15 at Hill Climb Nationals, he's putting in power numbers double the avg weekend punter. I'm more impressed he scrapped and made it happen despite a challenging budget! Kudos to him.
Seems like going disc & getting a cheaper big brand groupset (105/Force) would solve 95% of the issues. This was super informative though, I have been eyeing Elves frames for a while now
LOVE IT! Can you please do more videos like this where 1. You have your mates talk about their long term bike 2. Talk about what they like about it 3. Talk about what they dislike about it.
chapeau for giving it a go. For most of us, building a bike that prioritises durability and reliability over performance for any given budget makes more sense, but I totally see that it would be the other way around for an elite racer. If you wanna keep up with the pros, you need a bike that's as fast as theirs. If you ain't got pro money, it's good to know the limitations and considerations of going down this route.
Bottom line...great value for money spent,but really helps to have a good level of mechanical ability. Plus if riding a lot things break and get replaced fairly regularly whatever parts used...Respect that he took on this project.
My Columbus BATAVUS Aero from 1999 has done 106 races with a pro rider , had 4 owners since me , all 7700 DURA ACE and Mike Burrows Carbon spoked wheelset , no issues and never had a wheel trued up ! £2000 for a Chinese pile of crap now ready for the bin , even his wheels are done for with ruined tracks , mine have done 100k ? And as new , never by Chinese anything
@@curtisducati the chances are high that there are parts from china in every bike. don't think that the chinese can't build anything. you will still be surprised.
The Wheels and the crankset do the most carrying..a bike frame is the least thing I could look after first but starting from wheels and crank at a high level will make you beat nearly everyone on a budget
I used to get 12-15k on a set of allow rims, before the brake track would be worn enough the structural integrity would be an issue. Mind you I'm a heavy rider who lived in a really hilly area and rode rain or shine. They might have lasted longer I cleaned the bike more. Regardless, I'm really impressed he got 20K on carbon wheels.
Absolutely! 20.000 miles, so 32.000 km under professional race conditions in any type of weather for carbon rims and they are still functional? I actually think that is really impressive! Even an aluminium rim would show quite some wear under these conditions. It also means, as a weekend warrior fair weather rider, you could probably ride these wheels for 50.000 miles if you took proper care of them. I actually think this review is proof that the whole discussion about the wear of rim brakes on carbon rims is BS, since they (or at least these ones) obviously DON'T wear quicker than alloy rims.
@@glennoc8585 If he had disc he would just swap out the rotor so it's a non-issue. The question is how many rotors would you go through in 20K miles? Is it enough to basically buy another equivalent set of wheels?
Real world test with good mileage put on the components and frame. Fair play to Harry for the long term test: and all the best for the season ahead 👍 Top video Francis, nice one 👏
Harry seems like a guy who would benefit from using 105 5700 or Ultegra 6700, cheap, super reliable, highly effective. Especially on his rim brake bike setup. And with that crazy number of miles ridden, I'd personally have a set of aluminum hoops to beat on to keep his deep carbon wheels ready for race day.
If you spend a bit of time looking at it...what you recommended would be "heavier". That is the issue with bikes money, time, performance; you get to pick 2 unless you are a "dentist".
Was thinking the same Ali express groupsets don’t seem to cut it at this level where you absolutely need reliable shifting. Dependable 105 or Ultegra mechanical (even 2nd hand to cut costs) should be considered
@@trepidati0n533 The groupset choices I posted above were intentional; weight takes a major back seat to reliability, cost, and shifting quality. 6700 has all those qualities in spades.
This actually didn't deter me from trying the DIY route from SE Asia at all. I wouldn't go the rim brake route at all. I don't entirely trust big name rim brake wheels. Listening to other reviewers and pundits like China Cycling things like the wheels and drive trains have gotten better (albeit more expensive). But, the main thing is I ride about 8,000 miles a year and I'm not hammering the hell out of my bike when doing so. Props, Harry and thanks for doing this.
Imagine the riding a pro does and then imagine doing it on such a bike :D props to him trusting it so much. With my comment I do not want to discredit Elves frames. Rather pointing out that there are so many things he has issues with with components and how much he is fiddling around.
I have genuinely never seen him scrutinize regular big name bikes the same way he does these aliexpress bikes I'd bet a cervelo would have all the same issues given the mileage lol
>Trusting it so much Literally most bikes come from China And most come even from the same factory If you have trust issue you should question your trust on a Frame with a big brand name
Fun fact the majority of pro continental riders in Asia ride Elves. And there's apparently a pro team that helps out sensah's R&D (even though Sensah's shifting is exactly as clunky as Sram lol it even gets stuck in the same gears). So these aren't really parts you'd admire someone to be riding. Elves is a top of the line racing carbon frame and sensah is sat in the middle of 105 and Ultegra in terms of performance and quality. I should know, I used to ride Sensah and ride 105 now and have bikes I've used on Ultegra.
@@ambulowan still not the same, unless you for whatever reason trust them to keep to the same quality standard and actually know what they're doing*, aka if they just get told what to do by big brands but they don't actually know the reasoning/experience behind it etc. if you don't really have any clue about those yet still insist same, then kinda sounds like have irrational hate or whatever towards big well established brands. *which this one in vid clearly wasn't, way too tight bottom bracket area, brake mounts not faced properly, seat post kept slipping needing loctite&sand paper bodge fix and they didn't clear coat the white bits or silly thing was just painted over it. Could of been more that didn't remember from vid and thats just the frames problems/quality issues. Not that every big brand bike is perfect either, but can easily warranty it unlike this one, if they even accept warranty(/have any) instead of giving silly advice like elite wheels did. (sand paper it to "make" another brake track yourself? you wut)
The problem is their design leaving a over wide range for the rail, causing it need maximum wire tension to pull the deraileur to reach outside gear, which is a rough condition to keep on.
I had a top of the line bicycle for eight years. It definitely did what I wanted, but it was too much bicycle for me. If this was an option back then, i probably would have taken it on. Kudos to Harry for racing this bicycle as well.
When you showcased his bike in the first video I was sold on the colour and spec. Immediately ordered all the same parts aside from crankset, stem and bar - opted for the integrated option from Elves. Bottom bracket on mine was definitely tight, same brake cabling issues, same brake track wear problems. My seat post hasn't slipped, but I did wedge in the supplied sand paper from day 1. Front derailluer is rubbish and has quickly killed itself, probably has another 1000kms of life left. Rear derailluer was great, but has worn out enough to notice it being sloppy at times. All that said, it's served me well and rides exactly as Harry mentioned in this video.
@@ambulowan this is my first carbon frame bike, so can't compare to others. That being said, it is pretty stiff and transfers power nicely. It's also pretty comfortable.
The front derailleur on a Sensah Empire, the most useless device ever thought up by humanity. Hope Harry can snag up a sponsorship or have a mate with a few dozen Scott bikes.
20k miles in 1.5 years w/many races seems a hella pounding on that bike. Kind of expect some things to malfunction/wear out, including the rim brake track on the carbon wheels.
Yup…I have to think that if that wheelset was a quarter to a third of the price of a name brand, the “short” lifespan is perfectly acceptable…especially for an item that could easily be trashed in a crash. I’d much rather destroy (and replace) a $2000 wheelset than a $7500 one after a pileup!
I put ultegra Di2 on my Falath Pro, used shimano direct mount brakes with no issue and the Orome integrated bars. the Elitewheels with ceramic bearings still going strong. All works a treat. i think the frame is cracking value and a good looker! Keep up the good racing Harry, I'm subscribing and watching your climb to the elite!
Thanks for another great video, I was actually looking for a long time review of the elves bike, but I have to say you only scratched the surface and went quickly over everything.
I just finished my elves falath pro build today. All thanks to Harley's video, the G4 Fake brakes are hard to find through, I had to settle with a set of terko T741 brakes.
I think thats a good takeaway from this project: if you have experience with bike maintenance, the time and money is an issue, such a bike (or lets say parts from it), can be a good solution. But its still reassuring that you actually get something for your money from more expensive brands (not just marketing), although Specialized or Cervelo are still absolutely overpriced in my opinion (in comparison to eg Canyon, Simplon and Scott).
Theres alot of pro am, start ups and exactly pros in my country (philippines) uses elves bikes. Even japan. I too myself owns 2 elves bikes, falath pro and a vanyar. Both bikes was used since 2021. Also used in small race events.
Well that's the long term test, well done Harry good luck for rest of the season. Gives a bit of insight into expected life span of these Ali express parts though I think the quality is improving.
This bike having 20,000 miles on it is alot and would be interesting to see this compared to something relative. I think given the cost of something like this its very good and thats whats attractive 2000/18 (Months) = 111.11 per month 0.10p per mile isnt bad for the cost Though we do have to ask the following questions if its scalable or relatable to other brands - Do the elite wheels have a short lifespan to those compared to the wheels of bigger brands? - Do the more expensive bikes have a similar lifespan? - If we had swapped to disc brakes do the wheels last longer? as that is a typical advantage of having disc vs rim. I see the frame doesnt have a short lifespan compared to the big brands which is a big plus, the components will wear out, but this frame doesnt need to be written off, new wheels and new brakes that suit the frame, but the design flaw for the brake could also be said about other brands I had the same with my Canyon frame. I think for the use case this has focused on maintenance items but instead we should look at how this bike can handle the forces of a high end race over and over again, the forces required for those races are bigger and sometimes have finer margins than normal riding. This is what the advantage is because its compared to a 10k where they are more used in the races he participates in, for the average user I think the maintenance focus serves no purpose as the use cases are minor and happen on all bikes This isnt a bike I would have but thats because my use case is different, I think a solid steel frame with good design will never be beaten for the average rider, though for the competitive why go the cheap route when its not needed, though this was fun to watch and these raised some great discussions too.
For a sub $50 derailleur, Sensah works very well. Raced on the same Empire (not pro) for 3 years. Half up well. About the same weight as Ultegra, I have the ICANN wheelset, with DT Swiss hubs. A very light-weight and very good set of wheels. Are they comparable with a $4k wheelset? When they are new yes. As they age, no. There are compromises. I suspect the disk version will hold up better.
He could have bought a full 11 speed mechanical Shimano 105 groupset and it have run reliably on 20k miles without much problems. The main goal of this project is if he can race an all Chinese brand bike at 1/10 of a price of a 10k super bike. The answer was Yes you can. But it has a lot of caveats and mechanical issues you have to deal with to make it work. If money was no object. He could just spend 10k on race bike and it will run reliably. As you’ll only be cleaning the bike and doing service maintenance.
@@iMadrid11 yaint even getting down the driveway with the OEM 105 cables and housings so your point falls on its arse straight away m8 All bike stuff sucks so you might as well pay less money for the same garbage
I have a similar experience with the groupset. I love my sensah 12 speed. I thought it sucked when I got it, but I used the cables that came with it and it shifted like crap. Once I put new cables in it works... almost perfect. My next groupset will be sram, even tho Ltwoo looks very appealing...
Suki from Elite Wheels is the best! I have 82 rear 55 front and I love them. I have the upgraded brake surface and spokes, so far they are great - but I ride lot less and only on flat ground so I don't brake that much anyway.
I'm glad that you are still alive and talking about it. I would not spend a dime on it because it's like buying a graveyard plot, hahaha, hahaha, hahaha!!!
I'm guessing that a disc version of the frame and wheels would have a very different rating. The rear derailleur looks better with Shimano and interchangeable levers.
His views on the Sensah group set was very like my experience. The front mech was junk and very quickly replaced with a Shimano alternative and the rest of it works, but it isn't as nice as a Shimano set to use. I suspect that a hyperglide rear cassette would improve the feel of the rest of the Sensah components.
Here in the Philippines, one of big teams locally (7 eleven) is sponsored by Elves. They race in UCI races so this is not surprising to me. And Elves is a "big" brand to us, maybe because you guys are rich hehe. And that's one of the reasons why I like watching foreign youtubers such us you guys❤
I imagine other high end bikes that cost 5 times as much have little issues as well. I've seen pinnarellos with brake mounts that are incorrectly placed causing inconsistent brake pad wear and thus brake pad rubbing.
I’ve learned from youtube that this AliExpress stuff isn’t very reliable, even when the TH-camrs are enthusiastic about it. I used to be a bike shop mechanic, and I’d be able to deal with all these problems, but even I won’t even bother at this point. Thanks for all the information. I enjoy all of your videos very much.
No. You just have to know what to buy. For example SENSAH levers are in my experience better than l-twoo. However when it comes to derailleurs l-twoo does a much better job. Even when buying both and then mixing and matching you would still be factors in costs below the brands. And I seriously doubt that after 40k km you wouldn't have to change the rear derailleur anyway for example. Things wear out. Branding is not a magic remedy. The only true failure is the headset stem.
As someone who is mechanically savvy and able to deal with these types of issues, I’d rather just pay twice as much and not subject myself to constant headaches and have someone to deal with it if something goes wrong. If you can save up 2k, you can save up 4k. If price is absolutely your top priority, I guess I understand, but at some point your time has to be worth something.
i still think the best route is using shimano RD and FD, with sensah shifters for budget options, in a shimano groupset the most expensive part is the shifters, and a 105 groupset with sensah shifters can save like $100 dollars or more
@@core2zero I would rather eat instant ramen for a dinner for a while and spend the extra $100 to have everything match so I don’t get shit if a part needs warranty.
@@core2zero I’m sitting in a shop with 15 CNC machines, a full host of mechanical support equipment, and I have pretty much all the tools a bike shop would have at my house. I *could* repair virtually anything on my bikes. However my time, believe it or not, is valuable. In the time it takes me to repair that shit myself, I could be making substantially more money doing my actual job while my LBS swaps shit out for me. I don’t want to spend time I could be doing something enjoyable (riding my bike) doing something I don’t find enjoyable. (Repairing chinese shit I bought to save $100.)
For a entusiast 20.000 miles is nothing. My bicycle is 15 years old and several times that and works fine, only chains casettes, cables and tires. And I love it ❤😊
32000kms on a bike that is raced on is VERY good going regardless of the brand of the bike and equipment. This is very good going. My Fuji Transonic (so what a B tier big brand) lasted 26000kms before getting squashed by a car. As for the Sensah grouppo. My Ultegra R8000 that I carried over from the above Fuji is about 40000kms old now, and the left shifter started to give me issues. Jamming and a spring snapping inside. I'm mechanically enclined and was able to fix it. But the Sensah lasting this long is very impressive.
Sensah is wonderful when it's new. Shifting is fast and the clicks you get from shifting is satisfying. My issue is you gotta adjust the barrel adjuster on the rd almost every other ride
@@cjohnson3836 you're right, it was wonderful when new, like the first week only, but then the constant adjustments make them not so. I'm getting them replaced when they finally give out.
2 grand for a bike like that seems like a good deal to me, spend 2.5 or 3 and have actual shimano 105 or ultegra on it that won't fail on you. You will have a bike that works just as well as any other at that point.
I've had a pin fall out of a Sensah SRX Pro derailleur too (after only 5 months and a few thousand kilometres), so it seems like this is an issue that's not uncommon to Sensah. And that was my second SRX derailleur - had to replace the first because the barrel adjuster snapped off. I won't be buying Sensah again, despite how well it shifts when it's actually working - will probably replace it with GRX at some point in the future. Too bad, because if it weren't for the quality issues Sensah would actually be a decent choice.
I was thinking the same. Those wheels look like grinded by standard shimano pads… I have cheap (sub 800k carbon wheels), they’ve done 24k km and braking surface still looks far from being gone…
Simple solution... get the disc version with their handlebars and ultegra 11 speed. $1650. Another set of Elite wheels for $500. good to g for another few years.
I just bought and built the same frame and knockoff EE brakes. My paint job is top notch, and the frame quality and tolerances were better than my Dogma F10 Disk from a few years back. I built with the Orome handlebar/stem that Epves also sell, and a SRAM Force 11sp groupset. The bike is so nice.
I mean if he'd got the disk version and run 105 R7020 it wouldn't have had half the issues. Also, saying the wheels lasted two years or the wheels lasted 20,000 miles are also very different things.
PLEASE can you let us know what stem you were running that failed. Speaking for everyone running the Kalloy Uno lightweight ali express stems. We need to know
Take note thats a di2 version. Thats what they alteast said to me. Theres a version of this wirh a different seatpost that has an entrance for the brake cables on the top tube.
I think this video confirms a hypothesis I’ve long since had: The best value = Chinese brand frameset, handlebars, seatpost, etc. paired with high end name-brand group-sets. The worst value = Frame from a brand like Canyon, ROSE, etc paired with low end name-brand groupsets. To make a judgement on the wheels I would need to see what a name brand carbon rim brake wheel set looked like after 20k miles of hard thrashing by a pro rider. I don’t doubt that the elite wheels wore out quickly, but again I’m not sure about the longevity of any carbon consumable being ridden that hard.
Question to Harry- how tall are the spacers under the stem? Thinking about buying this frame, but not sure how would it look like with ~30mm of spacers
I wonder if you’d be better off getting 2nd hand Ultegra derailleurs and shifters. Just feels like, for all their cheapness Sensah and LTwoo or whatever aren’t curing it at that level. You need reliable shifting.
For £2k you can add a bit more and get an aero bike complete with shimano 105 di2 from polygon. Fully built and with warranty. No headache of everything small falling apart
Actually, scratch that - where did you find a new Polygon Helios with Di2 for around 2000 GBP? It's ~4300€ where I live. It's entirely possible to buy Falath Pro with 105 Di2 and 50mm carbon wheels for ~2500€. So you get same level of components for far less money and most likely a faster bike too, considering that Helios is more of a TCR/Tarmac SL6 competitor rather than actual aero bike.
Wow, if he thinks that rear derailleur deflection is bad, wait until he sees the vintage Suntour AG Tech derailleur on my 84 Raleigh Elkhorn restoration. 😭 (Hoping I can find a Suntour XC 3-pulley derailleur for a reasonable period upgrade.) Overall, while I'm extremely shy at the thought of spending even $1k for a bike, let alone $2k, I think this sounds like a very interesting setup for a world-class race bike. As other comments suggested, might be worthwhile for the frame, but otherwise perhaps stick to the big names for the high-tolerance, high-performance mechanical bits, and maybe also a more reliable set of wheels. Otherwise, if you aren't afraid of DIY tinkering, it sounds like you can reasonably tidy up the QC issues with time and patience. Probably still far above my needs, but kind of exciting to consider the value proposition of this trickle-down (manufacturing, as well as cycling) technology. Certainly seems like it must raise the tides for entry-level bikes and componentry.
with most aliexpress parts, the quality, the finish, the workmanship, is usually on par or even better when you first get them compared to the big component companies. The only disadvantage is the lifespan on these things is a lot shorter than the regular products. For instance I bought a Zitto XD 9-50 12 speed cassette for my xc mountain bike and it was amazing. Weighed less than xx1 and had a really cool oilslick pattern. But, a year later, I have a problem that ive never had with a sram cassette before. The lockring mechanism is wearing down from the inside, meaning the cassette wobbles a little bit when its on the bike. Sometimes it will rub against the hub and make a horrible grinding noise. Surprisingly my hub is fine though. I would probably buy it again, it was only $110 but just be a little more careful on it I guess.
"It's only done 20k miles, it's not very good is it..." 😮most people don't put that mileage on a car in 18 months!!!
And yet, people will slag on Shimano or SRAM, who are not much more priced now that Chinese laborers are getting sick of slave wages, if their groupsets don't last 3 lifetimes. The double standard is ridiculous.
I ride 105 trek domane (sl5) and it has 20k on it in 1.3 years.@@cjohnson3836 Mechanically, I've replaced just about everything except the left shifter assembly (because it only gets used to stop, lol)
Stop owning a car
I have the real EE brakes, and the routing issue is exactly the same
So if I had to make a conclusion of this whole project:
- The frame when built is just fine, apart maybe from paintjob
- The parts is a bit of a jungle, you can find gems but you might have more little problems with all sort of parts
- Rim brake Elite seems to wear off quicker... Although, it really really depends on weather conditions you're driving in. And let's be honest, the UK isn't the most dry country there is 😛
So a bike with an Elves frame en disc brakes, maybe even Elite wheels, and a more normal setup (SRAM / Shimano) would just be fine I'd say? Well, it's something I'm saving for right now 🙂
I have that exact setup; Elves falath disc, 60mm Elite disc, Ultegra mechanical (good 2nd hand). No issues and rides like any big brand I've ridden before. Truly a carbon racing beast, especially with the crazy (custom) paint job you can put on there. Communication with Elves is pretty good too. Would definitely recommend, very good bike and quality for the total price
As far as I heard Hyper and Winspace are not bad as well, in case the Elite wheelset looks not trustworthy enough.
😂I just finished a bike with elves falath pro frame (Rim brake, just like Harry's). With the same groupset and off brand carbon wheels. My takeaway from this follow-up video is if you race a lot, then the Sensah groupset isnt a good option...
But honestly, if only doing joy ride on this bike, will it last longer? And I'm also curious about his front derailleur, to me Sensah's derailleur need minor adjustments when installed new. is it dpwn to the type of crankset and chain he is using?
@@Xarx42 Hyper and Winspace I've also heard good things about. On the Elite I don't completely agree with you. As Harry mentioned in the video the hubs are reliable and nothing's failed on him. Many carbon repairers discourage using carbon wheels on rim brake bikes because you're degrading your wheels every time you brake. Also when descending in terms of braking power and heat buildup carbon is just not that great of a breaking surface. Maybe some wheel manufacturers have a less degrading braking surface but this is an issue all carbon rim brake wheels have.
i have a elves eglath with 11 speed 105, and some light bicycle wheels. their sizing is a bit weird for the eglath. i bought a size 50 frame, but its closer to a 52. its a tiny bit to big for me. buts its not a issue
overall im very happy with it. rides nicer than my old alu rim brake bike
Impressive that £2k can buy kit that can hold up to a weapon like Harry for 20k miles. He's making a show with World Tour riders and getting top 15 at Hill Climb Nationals, he's putting in power numbers double the avg weekend punter.
I'm more impressed he scrapped and made it happen despite a challenging budget! Kudos to him.
so its about the rider and not the bike then eh ;)
Seems like going disc & getting a cheaper big brand groupset (105/Force) would solve 95% of the issues. This was super informative though, I have been eyeing Elves frames for a while now
LOVE IT! Can you please do more videos like this where
1. You have your mates talk about their long term bike
2. Talk about what they like about it
3. Talk about what they dislike about it.
chapeau for giving it a go. For most of us, building a bike that prioritises durability and reliability over performance for any given budget makes more sense, but I totally see that it would be the other way around for an elite racer. If you wanna keep up with the pros, you need a bike that's as fast as theirs. If you ain't got pro money, it's good to know the limitations and considerations of going down this route.
I couldn't help but laugh at the thought of Harry racing in the breakaway, with a twig jammed in his rear mech and no brake tracks! You're a legend.
Bottom line...great value for money spent,but really helps to have a good level of mechanical ability. Plus if riding a lot things break and get replaced fairly regularly whatever parts used...Respect that he took on this project.
as an average cnsumer i wuld go for a reputable groupset for a project like this
Was that your takeaway? A bike that has that many issues isn't a great value at any price.
@@bluemystic7501 POV
@@yohansharp3040meaning a mech 105, well maintained, is all 95% of the cyclists ever need.
my take away was don't go too far from home and/or make sure you have your cell phone with you.
£2k for a bike that was raced on and did 20k miles is exceptional value. Harry seemed perfectly accepting of that.
Harry should try ltwoo erx next
My Columbus BATAVUS Aero from 1999 has done 106 races with a pro rider , had 4 owners since me , all 7700 DURA ACE and Mike Burrows Carbon spoked wheelset , no issues and never had a wheel trued up ! £2000 for a Chinese pile of crap now ready for the bin , even his wheels are done for with ruined tracks , mine have done 100k ? And as new , never by Chinese anything
@@curtisducati the chances are high that there are parts from china in every bike. don't think that the chinese can't build anything. you will still be surprised.
A SRAM chain lasts 12000 miles for reference. A cassette aluminum also lasts about 12000. Steel cassette probably lasts at least triple.
The Wheels and the crankset do the most carrying..a bike frame is the least thing I could look after first but starting from wheels and crank at a high level will make you beat nearly everyone on a budget
I used to get 12-15k on a set of allow rims, before the brake track would be worn enough the structural integrity would be an issue. Mind you I'm a heavy rider who lived in a really hilly area and rode rain or shine. They might have lasted longer I cleaned the bike more. Regardless, I'm really impressed he got 20K on carbon wheels.
Absolutely! 20.000 miles, so 32.000 km under professional race conditions in any type of weather for carbon rims and they are still functional? I actually think that is really impressive! Even an aluminium rim would show quite some wear under these conditions. It also means, as a weekend warrior fair weather rider, you could probably ride these wheels for 50.000 miles if you took proper care of them. I actually think this review is proof that the whole discussion about the wear of rim brakes on carbon rims is BS, since they (or at least these ones) obviously DON'T wear quicker than alloy rims.
@@christianb.1028it's ok but if he had disc you can easily double that lifespan
@@glennoc8585 If he had disc he would just swap out the rotor so it's a non-issue.
The question is how many rotors would you go through in 20K miles? Is it enough to basically buy another equivalent set of wheels?
Real world test with good mileage put on the components and frame. Fair play to Harry for the long term test: and all the best for the season ahead 👍 Top video Francis, nice one 👏
Harry seems like a guy who would benefit from using 105 5700 or Ultegra 6700, cheap, super reliable, highly effective. Especially on his rim brake bike setup. And with that crazy number of miles ridden, I'd personally have a set of aluminum hoops to beat on to keep his deep carbon wheels ready for race day.
If you spend a bit of time looking at it...what you recommended would be "heavier". That is the issue with bikes money, time, performance; you get to pick 2 unless you are a "dentist".
Was thinking the same Ali express groupsets don’t seem to cut it at this level where you absolutely need reliable shifting. Dependable 105 or Ultegra mechanical (even 2nd hand to cut costs) should be considered
@@trepidati0n533 The groupset choices I posted above were intentional; weight takes a major back seat to reliability, cost, and shifting quality. 6700 has all those qualities in spades.
Nothin but love for our chicken spotting Henry MacFarlane!
This actually didn't deter me from trying the DIY route from SE Asia at all. I wouldn't go the rim brake route at all. I don't entirely trust big name rim brake wheels. Listening to other reviewers and pundits like China Cycling things like the wheels and drive trains have gotten better (albeit more expensive). But, the main thing is I ride about 8,000 miles a year and I'm not hammering the hell out of my bike when doing so. Props, Harry and thanks for doing this.
Imagine the riding a pro does and then imagine doing it on such a bike :D props to him trusting it so much.
With my comment I do not want to discredit Elves frames. Rather pointing out that there are so many things he has issues with with components and how much he is fiddling around.
I have genuinely never seen him scrutinize regular big name bikes the same way he does these aliexpress bikes
I'd bet a cervelo would have all the same issues given the mileage lol
>Trusting it so much
Literally most bikes come from China
And most come even from the same factory
If you have trust issue you should question your trust on a Frame with a big brand name
Fun fact the majority of pro continental riders in Asia ride Elves. And there's apparently a pro team that helps out sensah's R&D (even though Sensah's shifting is exactly as clunky as Sram lol it even gets stuck in the same gears). So these aren't really parts you'd admire someone to be riding. Elves is a top of the line racing carbon frame and sensah is sat in the middle of 105 and Ultegra in terms of performance and quality. I should know, I used to ride Sensah and ride 105 now and have bikes I've used on Ultegra.
@@dan_lazaroI think the head (or head engineer) of Sensah used to work for Sram.
@@ambulowan still not the same, unless you for whatever reason trust them to keep to the same quality standard and actually know what they're doing*, aka if they just get told what to do by big brands but they don't actually know the reasoning/experience behind it etc. if you don't really have any clue about those yet still insist same, then kinda sounds like have irrational hate or whatever towards big well established brands.
*which this one in vid clearly wasn't, way too tight bottom bracket area, brake mounts not faced properly, seat post kept slipping needing loctite&sand paper bodge fix and they didn't clear coat the white bits or silly thing was just painted over it. Could of been more that didn't remember from vid and thats just the frames problems/quality issues. Not that every big brand bike is perfect either, but can easily warranty it unlike this one, if they even accept warranty(/have any) instead of giving silly advice like elite wheels did. (sand paper it to "make" another brake track yourself? you wut)
Very true about the front derailleur - me and my mechanic were not able to adjust it!
The problem is their design leaving a over wide range for the rail, causing it need maximum wire tension to pull the deraileur to reach outside gear, which is a rough condition to keep on.
@@卡臣-c2f it works on the stand but doesn't on the road. Pulled the cable as much as possible and still couldn't switch to the higher gear
I had a top of the line bicycle for eight years. It definitely did what I wanted, but it was too much bicycle for me. If this was an option back then, i probably would have taken it on. Kudos to Harry for racing this bicycle as well.
When you showcased his bike in the first video I was sold on the colour and spec. Immediately ordered all the same parts aside from crankset, stem and bar - opted for the integrated option from Elves.
Bottom bracket on mine was definitely tight, same brake cabling issues, same brake track wear problems. My seat post hasn't slipped, but I did wedge in the supplied sand paper from day 1.
Front derailluer is rubbish and has quickly killed itself, probably has another 1000kms of life left. Rear derailluer was great, but has worn out enough to notice it being sloppy at times.
All that said, it's served me well and rides exactly as Harry mentioned in this video.
How stiff is it, can you compare it to other bikes?
@@ambulowan this is my first carbon frame bike, so can't compare to others. That being said, it is pretty stiff and transfers power nicely. It's also pretty comfortable.
Harry Mac! Good to see you, seir! Best wishes for the upcoming season!!
Would it be viable just to have the frameset and chuck in some 105 or ultegra mechanical there? and some decent aluminum wheels?
The front derailleur on a Sensah Empire, the most useless device ever thought up by humanity. Hope Harry can snag up a sponsorship or have a mate with a few dozen Scott bikes.
For the amount of use this bike have seen, it was a great bang for buck.
20k miles in 1.5 years w/many races seems a hella pounding on that bike. Kind of expect some things to malfunction/wear out, including the rim brake track on the carbon wheels.
Yup…I have to think that if that wheelset was a quarter to a third of the price of a name brand, the “short” lifespan is perfectly acceptable…especially for an item that could easily be trashed in a crash. I’d much rather destroy (and replace) a $2000 wheelset than a $7500 one after a pileup!
I put ultegra Di2 on my Falath Pro, used shimano direct mount brakes with no issue and the Orome integrated bars. the Elitewheels with ceramic bearings still going strong. All works a treat. i think the frame is cracking value and a good looker!
Keep up the good racing Harry, I'm subscribing and watching your climb to the elite!
Thanks for another great video, I was actually looking for a long time review of the elves bike, but I have to say you only scratched the surface and went quickly over everything.
I just finished my elves falath pro build today. All thanks to Harley's video, the G4 Fake brakes are hard to find through, I had to settle with a set of terko T741 brakes.
I think thats a good takeaway from this project: if you have experience with bike maintenance, the time and money is an issue, such a bike (or lets say parts from it), can be a good solution. But its still reassuring that you actually get something for your money from more expensive brands (not just marketing), although Specialized or Cervelo are still absolutely overpriced in my opinion (in comparison to eg Canyon, Simplon and Scott).
Elves is actually used by many pros in Asia. Pretty great bike.
Theres alot of pro am, start ups and exactly pros in my country (philippines) uses elves bikes. Even japan. I too myself owns 2 elves bikes, falath pro and a vanyar. Both bikes was used since 2021. Also used in small race events.
@@allenjay896 Which do you prefer for ride feel, vanyar or falath?
Well that's the long term test, well done Harry good luck for rest of the season. Gives a bit of insight into expected life span of these Ali express parts though I think the quality is improving.
Giant frames are a bit more but the reassurance you get support is worth it.
This bike having 20,000 miles on it is alot and would be interesting to see this compared to something relative.
I think given the cost of something like this its very good and thats whats attractive
2000/18 (Months) = 111.11 per month
0.10p per mile isnt bad for the cost
Though we do have to ask the following questions if its scalable or relatable to other brands
- Do the elite wheels have a short lifespan to those compared to the wheels of bigger brands?
- Do the more expensive bikes have a similar lifespan?
- If we had swapped to disc brakes do the wheels last longer? as that is a typical advantage of having disc vs rim.
I see the frame doesnt have a short lifespan compared to the big brands which is a big plus, the components will wear out, but this frame doesnt need to be written off, new wheels and new brakes that suit the frame, but the design flaw for the brake could also be said about other brands I had the same with my Canyon frame.
I think for the use case this has focused on maintenance items but instead we should look at how this bike can handle the forces of a high end race over and over again, the forces required for those races are bigger and sometimes have finer margins than normal riding.
This is what the advantage is because its compared to a 10k where they are more used in the races he participates in, for the average user I think the maintenance focus serves no purpose as the use cases are minor and happen on all bikes
This isnt a bike I would have but thats because my use case is different, I think a solid steel frame with good design will never be beaten for the average rider, though for the competitive why go the cheap route when its not needed, though this was fun to watch and these raised some great discussions too.
I bought the same frame based off your previous video about him. Although I paired it with Zipps/105Di2. Great frame so far.
quite happy with my elves falath disc and elite wheels marvel disc with dt swiss hubs. ultegra Di2 R8000.
For a sub $50 derailleur, Sensah works very well. Raced on the same Empire (not pro) for 3 years. Half up well. About the same weight as Ultegra, I have the ICANN wheelset, with DT Swiss hubs. A very light-weight and very good set of wheels. Are they comparable with a $4k wheelset? When they are new yes. As they age, no. There are compromises. I suspect the disk version will hold up better.
let's be honest: 20.000 miles on a carbon rim brake wheel is quite normal - maybe good - i think.
Agree, 20k miles on any set of rims is very good, especially in the UK!
😂don't forget he is beating the living crap of this bike.
Very informative and great to see Harry once again!
To be fair getting 20k miles on any top notch modern bikes, you're gonna have massive problems on it lol
20k miles in 1.5 years while hammering on it in (how many?) races.
He could have bought a full 11 speed mechanical Shimano 105 groupset and it have run reliably on 20k miles without much problems.
The main goal of this project is if he can race an all Chinese brand bike at 1/10 of a price of a 10k super bike.
The answer was Yes you can. But it has a lot of caveats and mechanical issues you have to deal with to make it work.
If money was no object. He could just spend 10k on race bike and it will run reliably. As you’ll only be cleaning the bike and doing service maintenance.
@@iMadrid11 yaint even getting down the driveway with the OEM 105 cables and housings so your point falls on its arse straight away m8
All bike stuff sucks so you might as well pay less money for the same garbage
I mean, I had zero problems at 20k on my bike.
This sounds like junk
@@JoshuaTootellDo you ride 20k in a year and a half, race and compete in the top 10 hill climbers?
I have a similar experience with the groupset. I love my sensah 12 speed. I thought it sucked when I got it, but I used the cables that came with it and it shifted like crap. Once I put new cables in it works... almost perfect. My next groupset will be sram, even tho Ltwoo looks very appealing...
I have had empire groupset and not had any issues. Granted not done the same miles but shifts crisply and no wobbles
Brakes are perfect…. Insert video of Harry crashing into hay bales at the weekend 😂😂😂😂
The audio is sounding good!
Suki from Elite Wheels is the best! I have 82 rear 55 front and I love them. I have the upgraded brake surface and spokes, so far they are great - but I ride lot less and only on flat ground so I don't brake that much anyway.
I'm glad that you are still alive and talking about it. I would not spend a dime on it because it's like buying a graveyard plot, hahaha, hahaha, hahaha!!!
I'm guessing that a disc version of the frame and wheels would have a very different rating.
The rear derailleur looks better with Shimano and interchangeable levers.
Following on from Sunday's Mailbox Monday... Whichever microphone you used today sounded great 👍
" A pin fell out so I just put a twig in it and snapped it off and it got me home." Holy hell, dude. lol
I remember the first episode where you showcased him and his bike . Hes slim down quite a bit after 20k miles!
His views on the Sensah group set was very like my experience. The front mech was junk and very quickly replaced with a Shimano alternative and the rest of it works, but it isn't as nice as a Shimano set to use. I suspect that a hyperglide rear cassette would improve the feel of the rest of the Sensah components.
Great to see Harry in a vid again!!
Here in the Philippines, one of big teams locally (7 eleven) is sponsored by Elves. They race in UCI races so this is not surprising to me. And Elves is a "big" brand to us, maybe because you guys are rich hehe. And that's one of the reasons why I like watching foreign youtubers such us you guys❤
I imagine other high end bikes that cost 5 times as much have little issues as well. I've seen pinnarellos with brake mounts that are incorrectly placed causing inconsistent brake pad wear and thus brake pad rubbing.
Ah my friend Sukie from Elitewheels 🥰
I’ve learned from youtube that this AliExpress stuff isn’t very reliable, even when the TH-camrs are enthusiastic about it. I used to be a bike shop mechanic, and I’d be able to deal with all these problems, but even I won’t even bother at this point. Thanks for all the information. I enjoy all of your videos very much.
at the end of the day you get what you pay for or as they say in China 一分钱一分货
No. You just have to know what to buy. For example SENSAH levers are in my experience better than l-twoo. However when it comes to derailleurs l-twoo does a much better job. Even when buying both and then mixing and matching you would still be factors in costs below the brands. And I seriously doubt that after 40k km you wouldn't have to change the rear derailleur anyway for example. Things wear out. Branding is not a magic remedy. The only true failure is the headset stem.
As someone who is mechanically savvy and able to deal with these types of issues, I’d rather just pay twice as much and not subject myself to constant headaches and have someone to deal with it if something goes wrong. If you can save up 2k, you can save up 4k.
If price is absolutely your top priority, I guess I understand, but at some point your time has to be worth something.
i still think the best route is using shimano RD and FD, with sensah shifters for budget options, in a shimano groupset the most expensive part is the shifters, and a 105 groupset with sensah shifters can save like $100 dollars or more
@@core2zero I would rather eat instant ramen for a dinner for a while and spend the extra $100 to have everything match so I don’t get shit if a part needs warranty.
@@RyonBeachner i forgot cyclist can't repair shit and all their parts are made of silk and glass
@@core2zero I’m sitting in a shop with 15 CNC machines, a full host of mechanical support equipment, and I have pretty much all the tools a bike shop would have at my house. I *could* repair virtually anything on my bikes. However my time, believe it or not, is valuable. In the time it takes me to repair that shit myself, I could be making substantially more money doing my actual job while my LBS swaps shit out for me.
I don’t want to spend time I could be doing something enjoyable (riding my bike) doing something I don’t find enjoyable. (Repairing chinese shit I bought to save $100.)
@@RyonBeachner keep eating ramen then
For a entusiast 20.000 miles is nothing. My bicycle is 15 years old and several times that and works fine, only chains casettes, cables and tires. And I love it ❤😊
So glad that the foreshadowing brake chat didn’t end up any worse! When’s the follow up coming? 😅
32000kms on a bike that is raced on is VERY good going regardless of the brand of the bike and equipment. This is very good going. My Fuji Transonic (so what a B tier big brand) lasted 26000kms before getting squashed by a car. As for the Sensah grouppo. My Ultegra R8000 that I carried over from the above Fuji is about 40000kms old now, and the left shifter started to give me issues. Jamming and a spring snapping inside. I'm mechanically enclined and was able to fix it. But the Sensah lasting this long is very impressive.
Can you ask Harry how stiff the bike is? Especially compared to the Allez Sprint he rode before which is one of the stiffest bikes on the market-
Can confirm bike is very very stiff, good for racing
I chose a trifox x16 with winspace lun wheels and ultegra di2. So far over 10k miles on it and still going strong
Sensah is wonderful when it's new. Shifting is fast and the clicks you get from shifting is satisfying. My issue is you gotta adjust the barrel adjuster on the rd almost every other ride
If something requires that much pampering to be functional then its is not, "wonderful". In fact, that is the opposite of wonderful. That's shit
@@cjohnson3836 you're right, it was wonderful when new, like the first week only, but then the constant adjustments make them not so. I'm getting them replaced when they finally give out.
2 grand for a bike like that seems like a good deal to me, spend 2.5 or 3 and have actual shimano 105 or ultegra on it that won't fail on you. You will have a bike that works just as well as any other at that point.
I've had a pin fall out of a Sensah SRX Pro derailleur too (after only 5 months and a few thousand kilometres), so it seems like this is an issue that's not uncommon to Sensah. And that was my second SRX derailleur - had to replace the first because the barrel adjuster snapped off. I won't be buying Sensah again, despite how well it shifts when it's actually working - will probably replace it with GRX at some point in the future. Too bad, because if it weren't for the quality issues Sensah would actually be a decent choice.
So your saying Elves Bikes are trash and you should never use it other than leisure biking? Maybe 5-10km a day bike only?
It looks fantastic - great style to begin with plus well earned race patina 👌
‘ When it works it works, when it doesn’t it doesn’t’. Like most stuff, really. This is the sort of insightful comment I watch TH-cam for…..😂
get this man a Scott foil with dura ace di2 for his next national champs for better chances maybe with Cade Media custom paint job
On a different subject what’s up with your audio today ? Anyway back to a great video 😊
I think the pads might not be for carbon use. I could be wrong but you need special pads for the carbon rims.
I was thinking the same. Those wheels look like grinded by standard shimano pads… I have cheap (sub 800k carbon wheels), they’ve done 24k km and braking surface still looks far from being gone…
Simple solution... get the disc version with their handlebars and ultegra 11 speed. $1650. Another set of Elite wheels for $500. good to g for another few years.
I just bought and built the same frame and knockoff EE brakes. My paint job is top notch, and the frame quality and tolerances were better than my Dogma F10 Disk from a few years back. I built with the Orome handlebar/stem that Epves also sell, and a SRAM Force 11sp groupset. The bike is so nice.
I mean if he'd got the disk version and run 105 R7020 it wouldn't have had half the issues. Also, saying the wheels lasted two years or the wheels lasted 20,000 miles are also very different things.
I have had MANY bad front derailleurs at the upper end from Shimano , Sram and Campagnolo .
PLEASE can you let us know what stem you were running that failed. Speaking for everyone running the Kalloy Uno lightweight ali express stems. We need to know
Get Hazza a few decent sponsors..he can then promote them on his YT channel...when he finally posts something 😅...top guy!!!
You can find a Shimano 105 groupset for 194 euros. It doesn't brake the bank and a lot of the small issues would be fixed.
Take note thats a di2 version. Thats what they alteast said to me. Theres a version of this wirh a different seatpost that has an entrance for the brake cables on the top tube.
2mins and 11secs was all it took for me to decide never to buy a frame off AliExpress 😂
I think this video confirms a hypothesis I’ve long since had:
The best value = Chinese brand frameset, handlebars, seatpost, etc. paired with high end name-brand group-sets.
The worst value = Frame from a brand like Canyon, ROSE, etc paired with low end name-brand groupsets.
To make a judgement on the wheels I would need to see what a name brand carbon rim brake wheel set looked like after 20k miles of hard thrashing by a pro rider. I don’t doubt that the elite wheels wore out quickly, but again I’m not sure about the longevity of any carbon consumable being ridden that hard.
Question to Harry- how tall are the spacers under the stem? Thinking about buying this frame, but not sure how would it look like with ~30mm of spacers
0:07
U sure about that 😂
With all the publicity Harry's given Elves, it would be nice if they sponsored him with a new bike.
do you have a link on where I could get that frame pump please :))
Guys, when's the Ryet carbon wheel review coming? 🧐🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
BUUUUT does it have fiberglass in the fork tube! :D
I hope so
I bet
So i reckon that frame with a bit of tiagra 4700 and some branded wheels might be a killa.
“mum! I want a new bike!”
“Son, the one you’ve got is perfectly fine.”
“………”
can you post the link for the ceramic bearings?
Thanks for this review!
Thanks Francis and Harry......yeah , you both amaze me , but..... I am OAF !
no issues with the carbon rims and latex tubes?
Would be cool to crowd fund guys like this via the channel
I wonder if you’d be better off getting 2nd hand Ultegra derailleurs and shifters. Just feels like, for all their cheapness Sensah and LTwoo or whatever aren’t curing it at that level. You need reliable shifting.
For £2k you can add a bit more and get an aero bike complete with shimano 105 di2 from polygon. Fully built and with warranty. No headache of everything small falling apart
Actually, scratch that - where did you find a new Polygon Helios with Di2 for around 2000 GBP? It's ~4300€ where I live.
It's entirely possible to buy Falath Pro with 105 Di2 and 50mm carbon wheels for ~2500€. So you get same level of components for far less money and most likely a faster bike too, considering that Helios is more of a TCR/Tarmac SL6 competitor rather than actual aero bike.
Wow, if he thinks that rear derailleur deflection is bad, wait until he sees the vintage Suntour AG Tech derailleur on my 84 Raleigh Elkhorn restoration. 😭 (Hoping I can find a Suntour XC 3-pulley derailleur for a reasonable period upgrade.)
Overall, while I'm extremely shy at the thought of spending even $1k for a bike, let alone $2k, I think this sounds like a very interesting setup for a world-class race bike. As other comments suggested, might be worthwhile for the frame, but otherwise perhaps stick to the big names for the high-tolerance, high-performance mechanical bits, and maybe also a more reliable set of wheels. Otherwise, if you aren't afraid of DIY tinkering, it sounds like you can reasonably tidy up the QC issues with time and patience.
Probably still far above my needs, but kind of exciting to consider the value proposition of this trickle-down (manufacturing, as well as cycling) technology. Certainly seems like it must raise the tides for entry-level bikes and componentry.
Amazing video, thanks!!!
Carbon aliexpress frame + real shimano groupset is fine. I have some carbon wheels off aliexpress that have done 25000km and still fine
Incredible bike & Good regards to his endeavours :)
with most aliexpress parts, the quality, the finish, the workmanship, is usually on par or even better when you first get them compared to the big component companies. The only disadvantage is the lifespan on these things is a lot shorter than the regular products. For instance I bought a Zitto XD 9-50 12 speed cassette for my xc mountain bike and it was amazing. Weighed less than xx1 and had a really cool oilslick pattern. But, a year later, I have a problem that ive never had with a sram cassette before. The lockring mechanism is wearing down from the inside, meaning the cassette wobbles a little bit when its on the bike. Sometimes it will rub against the hub and make a horrible grinding noise. Surprisingly my hub is fine though. I would probably buy it again, it was only $110 but just be a little more careful on it I guess.
Can you fit 28c tire on rim brakes version?