Hi Triggerboy, I employed this technique, learned in two previous videos of yours, last weekend and was really impressed by the improvement in my carving. The transition and the carving felt so much better and led to great improvement in my style. When I was doing it right I knew I was doing it right because it just felt so right! Thank you for the help!!!
Seems like for quick SL transitions : flex to skis flat, then extend knees & hips to be centered by fallline & start of pressure. In GS, knees & hips extension ie CM coming forward relative to feet, ie recentering, can situationally start prior to skis flat.
I think the main issue with understanding the low stance in skiing is that, for many years, it was viewed as a mistake or poor technique by coaches and instructors. However, as you mentioned, Tom, it’s quite the opposite-it’s a valuable technique when applied correctly. The key is to focus on when this low position should occur during a turn, as timing is absolutely crucial. From my perspective, it works best when combined with an edge release type of turn (Improve Your Carving Using Your Knees video). This type of turn involves staying on the outside leg slightly longer, gradually increasing the edge angle, and then quickly releasing the pressure. The timing of this release is critical, as it must align with the transfer of weight and the redirection of your center of mass (CM) into the turn while staying low. Essentially, this movement allows us to take a shortcut with our CM, covering a shorter distance compared to the skis. At the beginning stages of mastering low stance turns, I focus on directing my skis more across the hill while guiding my CM more directly down the fall line. Staying low and dropping the hip into the turn is the most efficient way to “catch up” with the skis and complete the movement effectively.
Notice, It is important not to bend forward (over) at the waist. The "phantom chair " position allows the best posture to properly execute linked turns. Fit, skilled skiers have the best chance with this, as others less skilled and with a low fitness level, will have to sit this one out. Thanks for sharing !
Yeah, its for expert level. But if you check out the longer version you will see that the drill I use for coaching this technique is not that difficult. Cheers, T
Hi hi hi. I just tied the toiletseat thing, and i felt quickerin the transition. Hope you following this up with a later video. Greetings from and old norwegian
In order to advance, abandoning the defensive intermediate skills is required. Skidding, edge sets at the end of turns, popping up in the transition, holding a static position, and such. There's a cleanness and fluidity to advanced skiing.
@@Triggerboy62 Had my first days on the slopes this weekend and found outdated skills creeping into my turns. Edge-setting, popping up, hunching over, and my old nemesis... A-Framing. Dusting the cobwebs off my turns.
Dropping the "defensive" habits, that's a really useful way of looking at it. Makes perfect sense, thanks for sharing this! I realise now that I do a lot of the defensive stuff, especially on steeper slopes, which is why I always get tired out.
in my opinion an excellent skier must master both techniques and use them based on 1) the specific situation of the track and 2) based on his specific body characteristics. I can't find one system that is clearly superior to the other in an absolute way.
Exactly. You need to be able to both extend and flex through the transition. Extending is what we learn early on and what all instructors tell us to do, stay centered not to be caught in the back seat. Skiracing is then a totally different beast. T
Yes.... however, in yesterdays Val Disere GS race the transitions were super fast. Watch guys like Zubcic for this kind of transition in GS. Odermat the opposite, extends really a lot. But generally as you said, this is more a SL technique. Thanks for your valuable input here. Tom
Nice analysis - A few points: sometimes ecspecially at a lower level teaching kids to move their hips forward does generaly mean they have to extend upwards slightly ecspecialy when they are not creating WC edge angles. I would think moving upwards slightly is a biproduct of driving the hips over the boots at the top of the turn? Also would you disagree that in GS/Speed there is still a slight extension by top skiers notably Marco Odermatt, thoughts?
I agree. "moving hips forward" is all about anticipation preparing the top of the turn. If you know about hoptraken, it is same movement: knee retraction and hips forward, no "up" movement if you don't want to fly :)
@@travisbacon1974 you can think of it as you would throw legs to the side of the mountain so skis will have longer travel and drop your CM hips to the slope line so you take short cut to catch with the skis
Just a question: what should be the stance of both the hips and the shoulders in the four phases of the curve, each in the two up-down directions (e.g. internal shoulder or hip at the top and external at the bottom) and forward-backward (e.g. hip or shoulder inside forward and outside back, i.e. counter VS anticipate)
Woow, you are not asking simple questions!!!! Not exactly sure I understand internal and external. Can you describe these a bit more in detail? Here are however a few videos on counter that I have made in the past. Please comment: th-cam.com/video/8eaBHNb7yCA/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/6xMe73xXEVM/w-d-xo.html Cheers, Tom
Internal and external refer to the turn, internal means inside the turn, external means outside the turn. For example: shoulder inside the turn forward, shoulder outside the turn backward (i.e. counter) . I'll watch the videos carefully soon For now, thanks a lot Loris
I really appreciated the videos on the counter, especially the second, which presents the different options and suggests the one you think is best. However, I need further help, so I ask you to confirm or correct what I write below. To simplify, I only indicate the position of the hip and shoulder inside the turn, given that the position of the hip and shoulder outside the turn is the opposite (i.e. if the inside shoulder is forward, the outside shoulder is backward). What I write below refers to the 3-WAY SEPARATION turn, where the forward-backward position refers to the direction of the skis and the up-down position refers to the outside ankle-knee-hip axis. Start of the turn: inside hip forward - down; inside shoulder forward - down Apex: inside hip forward - up or down?; inside shoulder forward - up or down? End: inside hip forward - up; inside shoulder back - up Thanks a lot
hum words are important here: you should not say "down-up" but instead "backward-forward". The base in skiing is to be centered and stacked in transition. However I agree with you, in competition it is impossible to do so when you deal with very short turns. But you still try to recenter even if you can't, because if you don't do so, you will ENTER the next turn in the backseat. So ask yourself this simple question: when and how do I start to go forward with my Center of Mass? But yes Tom, @1:57, you noted that AT THE SAME TIME the CM "goes up" and they "flex the legs"... a good start from you, even if it is impossible to flex and to go up at the same time ok? :) Nota: I noticed that while free skiing, Chris was pushing a little bit his feet laterally when entering the turn. This is a sign when you are a little bit late: meaning your CM is not placed, not forward enough. Skiing at the level of Chris is all about timing and gaining time to be super active...
Thanks for great input here. Im trying to bust the myth that you should always be centered and stacked at transition. WC ski racers and expert skiers don't always do that. Think of it like jumping on a trampoline. As you go up in the air you can flex your legs and it does not make any difference up in the air but when you come down you need to have your legs extended. Exactly like when we are carving. As we enter the FLOAT as we call it we retract our legs and flex through the transtion. Then quickly extend for proper stacking when pressure builds up. It is all about timing. Yes, Chris is drifting his ski tails a lot. It is a tactical move and helping him with extending his legs quickly. T
@@Triggerboy62 thx for your answer Tom :)It is not a myth it is a base: if you have time, if ground reaction is not so strong: you should be centered and stacked in transition. And there are lots of reason why. Concerning Chris and his drifting the tails, I have seen this in former videos. This is pivot. I just notice that Chris was pivoting a little bit late when not using to much his knees (angulation) at the end of the turn. I mean when Chris does use lots of knee angulation I does pivot and then recovers nicely his external foot nicely. Otherwise he just pivots and extends at the same time: he just extends with his feet instead of letting the skis go by themselves to the side and putting his COM forward on his external foot.
yes, but .........as you get older, things don't seem to bend/flex as much and your hip seems to move further and further away from the snow, same with tying one's shoes
Thank you Tom, for talking about this. One of best video about this topic is from one famous channel - th-cam.com/video/gTvcFiIy_74/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PAZSx7cT2lAcgW6Q :) Thank you very much.
Hahaa.... its the same in English: Water Closet! So this has a double meaning. Im trying to be smart! Glad you picked up on it! The big question is, is this technique World Cup or down the drain crap? Happy Holidays, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 I really like the humour in your videos. Combined with your clear explanations and useful drills, this makes your channel my favourite skiing channel on youtube!
Hi Tom! Not sure if we discussed this in your past videos, but I wanted to share my experience with the whole flexing/extending through transition. I don’t really know if it’s the correct approach, but from my experience, flexing through transition is definitely the way to go in steep sections, or in very hard snow/icy sections. For the flatter parts, I find that extending through transition kind of helps me maintain/increase speed, especially in the gates (excluding vertical gates). Although this works for me, I am worried that flexing will also be faster in the flats but I cant do it because I’m not strong enough 😅 Thoughts?
Physical fitness has definitely everything to do with ski racing. It is very taxing. I agree with you that on steeps it is easier to flex and on flats harder. It basically comes down to how quickly you manage to make your transition. One way is to hook into a tuck on the flats if that is possible. But yes, that is hard on the legs too. Cheers, T
DUUde! My sentiments eXACTly! I've said THIS is the fastest h'way to the next shki/turn for years(!) Ever thought about comin' and coachin' in Canada?!(?!) ⛷️💣💥/🥳😎🤘
I would love to. By the way, have you seen my "Secret move in ski racing" videos from many ears ago? Good to hear you have been applying this in your skiing. Congrats, one step ahead. Cheers, T
Hi Triggerboy, I employed this technique, learned in two previous videos of yours, last weekend and was really impressed by the improvement in my carving. The transition and the carving felt so much better and led to great improvement in my style. When I was doing it right I knew I was doing it right because it just felt so right! Thank you for the help!!!
Wow, you are welcome. And thank you for watching. So glad I could be of help. Cheers, T
Clear and useful video. Thank you for your valuable inputs!
You are welcome!
Seems like for quick SL transitions : flex to skis flat, then extend knees & hips to be centered by fallline & start of pressure.
In GS, knees & hips extension ie CM coming forward relative to feet, ie recentering, can situationally start prior to skis flat.
I think the main issue with understanding the low stance in skiing is that, for many years, it was viewed as a mistake or poor technique by coaches and instructors. However, as you mentioned, Tom, it’s quite the opposite-it’s a valuable technique when applied correctly.
The key is to focus on when this low position should occur during a turn, as timing is absolutely crucial. From my perspective, it works best when combined with an edge release type of turn (Improve Your Carving Using Your Knees video). This type of turn involves staying on the outside leg slightly longer, gradually increasing the edge angle, and then quickly releasing the pressure. The timing of this release is critical, as it must align with the transfer of weight and the redirection of your center of mass (CM) into the turn while staying low.
Essentially, this movement allows us to take a shortcut with our CM, covering a shorter distance compared to the skis. At the beginning stages of mastering low stance turns, I focus on directing my skis more across the hill while guiding my CM more directly down the fall line. Staying low and dropping the hip into the turn is the most efficient way to “catch up” with the skis and complete the movement effectively.
Notice, It is important not to bend forward (over) at the waist. The "phantom chair " position allows the best posture to properly execute linked turns.
Fit, skilled skiers have the best chance with this, as others less skilled and with a low fitness level, will have to sit this one out.
Thanks for sharing !
Yeah, its for expert level. But if you check out the longer version you will see that the drill I use for coaching this technique is not that difficult. Cheers, T
Hi hi hi.
I just tied the toiletseat thing, and i felt quickerin the transition.
Hope you following this up with a later video.
Greetings from and old norwegian
Wonderful! Thanks for watching. T
In order to advance, abandoning the defensive intermediate skills is required. Skidding, edge sets at the end of turns, popping up in the transition, holding a static position, and such. There's a cleanness and fluidity to advanced skiing.
Well said northern guy! Cheers,
T
@@Triggerboy62 Had my first days on the slopes this weekend and found outdated skills creeping into my turns. Edge-setting, popping up, hunching over, and my old nemesis... A-Framing. Dusting the cobwebs off my turns.
Dropping the "defensive" habits, that's a really useful way of looking at it. Makes perfect sense, thanks for sharing this!
I realise now that I do a lot of the defensive stuff, especially on steeper slopes, which is why I always get tired out.
I extend a lot; but, use the inside leg for stability on ice. Working on this and waiting for a condition that will support this.
Great. Ice is always difficult. Cheers, T
in my opinion an excellent skier must master both techniques and use them based on 1) the specific situation of the track and 2) based on his specific body characteristics. I can't find one system that is clearly superior to the other in an absolute way.
Exactly. You need to be able to both extend and flex through the transition. Extending is what we learn early on and what all instructors tell us to do, stay centered not to be caught in the back seat. Skiracing is then a totally different beast. T
Do you find more full body extensions in GS as there is more time between turns and bigger angles with leg extensions in turns.
Yes.... however, in yesterdays Val Disere GS race the transitions were super fast. Watch guys like Zubcic for this kind of transition in GS. Odermat the opposite, extends really a lot. But generally as you said, this is more a SL technique. Thanks for your valuable input here. Tom
Nice analysis - A few points: sometimes ecspecially at a lower level teaching kids to move their hips forward does generaly mean they have to extend upwards slightly ecspecialy when they are not creating WC edge angles. I would think moving upwards slightly is a biproduct of driving the hips over the boots at the top of the turn?
Also would you disagree that in GS/Speed there is still a slight extension by top skiers notably Marco Odermatt, thoughts?
The ‘moving hips forward’ is difficult for me to understand. Do you know of any videos showing or explaining that movement?
Thanks
I agree. "moving hips forward" is all about anticipation preparing the top of the turn.
If you know about hoptraken, it is same movement: knee retraction and hips forward, no "up" movement if you don't want to fly :)
@@travisbacon1974 you can think of it as you would throw legs to the side of the mountain so skis will have longer travel and drop your CM hips to the slope line so you take short cut to catch with the skis
Thanks. Yes, its a byproduct.
Yes, you nailed it.
Just a question: what should be the stance of both the hips and the shoulders in the four phases of the curve, each in the two up-down directions (e.g. internal shoulder or hip at the top and external at the bottom) and forward-backward (e.g. hip or shoulder inside forward and outside back, i.e. counter VS anticipate)
Woow, you are not asking simple questions!!!! Not exactly sure I understand internal and external. Can you describe these a bit more in detail? Here are however a few videos on counter that I have made in the past. Please comment:
th-cam.com/video/8eaBHNb7yCA/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/6xMe73xXEVM/w-d-xo.html
Cheers, Tom
Internal and external refer to the turn, internal means inside the turn, external means outside the turn. For example: shoulder inside the turn forward, shoulder outside the turn backward (i.e. counter) .
I'll watch the videos carefully soon
For now, thanks a lot
Loris
I really appreciated the videos on the counter, especially the second, which presents the different options and suggests the one you think is best. However, I need further help, so I ask you to confirm or correct what I write below. To simplify, I only indicate the position of the hip and shoulder inside the turn, given that the position of the hip and shoulder outside the turn is the opposite (i.e. if the inside shoulder is forward, the outside shoulder is backward). What I write below refers to the 3-WAY SEPARATION turn, where the forward-backward position refers to the direction of the skis and the up-down position refers to the outside ankle-knee-hip axis.
Start of the turn: inside hip forward - down; inside shoulder forward - down
Apex: inside hip forward - up or down?; inside shoulder forward - up or down?
End: inside hip forward - up; inside shoulder back - up
Thanks a lot
hum words are important here: you should not say "down-up" but instead "backward-forward". The base in skiing is to be centered and stacked in transition. However I agree with you, in competition it is impossible to do so when you deal with very short turns. But you still try to recenter even if you can't, because if you don't do so, you will ENTER the next turn in the backseat. So ask yourself this simple question: when and how do I start to go forward with my Center of Mass?
But yes Tom, @1:57, you noted that AT THE SAME TIME the CM "goes up" and they "flex the legs"... a good start from you, even if it is impossible to flex and to go up at the same time ok? :)
Nota: I noticed that while free skiing, Chris was pushing a little bit his feet laterally when entering the turn. This is a sign when you are a little bit late: meaning your CM is not placed, not forward enough. Skiing at the level of Chris is all about timing and gaining time to be super active...
Thanks for great input here. Im trying to bust the myth that you should always be centered and stacked at transition. WC ski racers and expert skiers don't always do that. Think of it like jumping on a trampoline. As you go up in the air you can flex your legs and it does not make any difference up in the air but when you come down you need to have your legs extended. Exactly like when we are carving. As we enter the FLOAT as we call it we retract our legs and flex through the transtion. Then quickly extend for proper stacking when pressure builds up. It is all about timing.
Yes, Chris is drifting his ski tails a lot. It is a tactical move and helping him with extending his legs quickly.
T
@@Triggerboy62 thx for your answer Tom :)It is not a myth it is a base: if you have time, if ground reaction is not so strong: you should be centered and stacked in transition. And there are lots of reason why.
Concerning Chris and his drifting the tails, I have seen this in former videos. This is pivot. I just notice that Chris was pivoting a little bit late when not using to much his knees (angulation) at the end of the turn. I mean when Chris does use lots of knee angulation I does pivot and then recovers nicely his external foot nicely. Otherwise he just pivots and extends at the same time: he just extends with his feet instead of letting the skis go by themselves to the side and putting his COM forward on his external foot.
yes, but .........as you get older, things don't seem to bend/flex as much and your hip seems to move further and further away from the snow, same with tying one's shoes
😂
I hear you. Same situation for me nowadays. T
Thank you Tom, for talking about this. One of best video about this topic is from one famous channel - th-cam.com/video/gTvcFiIy_74/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PAZSx7cT2lAcgW6Q :) Thank you very much.
Hahaa.... thank you! Cheers, Tom
Fun fact: WC means toilet in German.
Hahaa.... its the same in English: Water Closet! So this has a double meaning. Im trying to be smart! Glad you picked up on it! The big question is, is this technique World Cup or down the drain crap? Happy Holidays, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 I really like the humour in your videos. Combined with your clear explanations and useful drills, this makes your channel my favourite skiing channel on youtube!
Hi Tom!
Not sure if we discussed this in your past videos, but I wanted to share my experience with the whole flexing/extending through transition. I don’t really know if it’s the correct approach, but from my experience, flexing through transition is definitely the way to go in steep sections, or in very hard snow/icy sections. For the flatter parts, I find that extending through transition kind of helps me maintain/increase speed, especially in the gates (excluding vertical gates). Although this works for me, I am worried that flexing will also be faster in the flats but I cant do it because I’m not strong enough 😅
Thoughts?
Physical fitness has definitely everything to do with ski racing. It is very taxing. I agree with you that on steeps it is easier to flex and on flats harder. It basically comes down to how quickly you manage to make your transition. One way is to hook into a tuck on the flats if that is possible. But yes, that is hard on the legs too. Cheers, T
DUUde! My sentiments eXACTly! I've said THIS is the fastest h'way to the next shki/turn for years(!) Ever thought about comin' and coachin' in Canada?!(?!) ⛷️💣💥/🥳😎🤘
I would love to. By the way, have you seen my "Secret move in ski racing" videos from many ears ago? Good to hear you have been applying this in your skiing. Congrats, one step ahead. Cheers, T