How the 8th Air Force defeated the Luftwaffe
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The B-17 Flying Fortress was supposed to be a war winning weapon. But by the end of 1943 the American 8th Air Force flying them was at breaking point.
German flak and fighters shot down B-17s in their hundreds, as US Strategic bombing doctrine came face to face with the realities of aerial warfare. Something had to change and change they did.
Just one year later, the 8th Air Force were masters of the air over Europe having dealt a killing blow the German Luftwaffe. So how did they do it? In this video, IWM Curator Dr Hattie Hearn looks at the changes in leadership, tactics and technology that transformed the air war over Nazi occupied Europe.
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Those drop tanks extending the escort fighters ranges were an ingenious invention - they were developed by a British company and were made of papier-mâché, so that when the escorts jettisoned them over enemy territory their remains were useless to the German war effort. As opposed to all metal drop tanks, which would have provided lightweight metals for the Germans to repurpose.
They were made of paper mache because they were cheap to produce and disposable.The Germans had all the aluminium they needed from shot down bombers.
Also the 8th was using them for about 6 months before some samples that had been sent to the. Evaluation teams at Dayton replied that they weren't acceptable for usaaf usage
Serious question: How did they hold av fuel, or any liquid for that matter, without getting soggy and falling apart? What were they coated with?
@@ooyginyardel4835 I think it was impregnated paper rather than paper mache. They apparently started leaking as soon as they were full! The USAAF later modified German metal drop tanks as well. There is a vid on YT about it.
A friend, now dead, was an RAF pilot who flew the Mustang. One of his tasks, on 'days off' after D-Day was to fly from their airstrip in Normandy back to Tangmere to collect essential supplies, including Mail, fresh bread and a drop tank full of Beer.
On working days he flew missions across Europe , escorting day bombers, and straffing targets of opportunity on the way home. He was given a copy of his gun camera film by the IWM not long before he died, showing the damage he did to lorries, planes and trains.
My father flew the B-24 in 8th Air Force, 1st half of 1944. He was shot down twice, once over England by the Luftwaffe who had followed the bombers, and once over the Continent. The Belgian Resistance helped him get back to England.
He completed his 25 missions. He flew at least twice on D-Day.
Once he was attacked by a jet, which failed to shoot him down.
After returning Stateside he was an instructor in the B-25 Mitchell.
When he first flew to England, his B-24 landed in Ireland. The crew were interned there 4 days. Another aircraft was flown in for them as their own plane had problems. The Irish let them continue on to England. Though "neutral" Ireland was helping the Allies behind the scenes.
I don't know if airmen knew during the war how imprecise "precision bombing" was. He told me long afterward, "We bombed Brussels sprouts."
He is buried in the Sacramento Valley National Cemetery. They would have put 2nd Lt. as his rank on the headstone, but I knew he had been promoted, and they engraved 1st Lt. on it as they should have.
The p51 is one of my favorite ww2 planes so one fly at an airshow years ago
Impressive story of a brave man!
P47 had all the highest ETO aces. Are you sure the the P51 killed the Luftwaffe? 47 & 51 had almost identical # of air to air kills, & 47 did when Ger. was stronger. Very surprised a museum would get this wrong.
My dad was in an 8th AF B-24 also (Flt Eng/TT). First out of North Africa, then out of Shipdham, England. His bomber collided with a German fighter head on over Hannover on 4/8/44. His leg was badly broken so he could not evade and he became a POW for about 13 months. Even with all that, he was still one of the lucky ones. He lived to 93yo.
@@steveturansky9031 I respect your father, but the truth is that the end result was the victory of Communism, an ideology that killed 100 million world-wide. See English journalist Douglas Reed on who was behind WW2. Truth is Hitler wanted to avoid war with the western powers. Mainstream historians all agree on this. His enemy --and ours---was Bolshevism in all its incarnations...
Shout-out to my grandfather, who was lead bombardier in his squadron of B-24 Liberators, my grandmother for entertaining the troops, my other grandfather for building B-17s and my other grandmother for mixing the explosives in the bombs grandfather #1 was dropping on factories in Germany.
They all survived the war. Bombardier grandfather survived his entire combat tour of 25 missions and lived to be 92. He only told my brother and I two or three stories, but otherwise would not talk about the war.
My son and I were standing in front of the P-51 displayed at the Smithsonian in Washington. I was expounding my limited knowledge of this machine with emphasis on the UK’s integration of the latest Merlin engine that transformed its high-altitude performance. We were aware of a slight figure at our shoulder wearing a badged WWII leather flying jacket. He commented how he had flown in the Mustang over Berlin and was a 6 kills. On discussing the UKs involvement with the drop tank innovation he delighted to tell us of his experience when releasing these units. He said that on occasion he would pull the lever to drop the tanks and only one would release. The fighter would immediately roll heavily to the side with the tank still in place he said. Everyone steered clear of each other when performing this operation…
A very impressive individual.
They had Allison V12s originally. It was hard to maintain them overseas as the number of planes in the UK grew and as we gained air superiority - we weren't losing very many planes, so they needed maintenance instead of replacement.
The Merlin wasn't used until later, in 1944.
@@TehButterflyEffect1944 was when the Merlin powered P-51D entered the arena. But Merlin powered P-51Bs and Cs were operational in Europe from fall of 1943…
We? When were you there?@@TehButterflyEffect
We? ‘My son and I…’ ?
When? Circa 1995-6.
Oh, and I forgot to add that to get the hung-up tank to release they rocked the Mustang violently from side to side until off it went….
The Anglo-American bombing campaign caused the germans to keep a significant number of men and 88mm anti-aircraft/anti-tanks guns, as well as fighter aircraft, in Germany for air defence, depriving the German armies on the Eastern Front of those guns, aircraft and men at a critical time in the war deciding battles between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. This crucial fact is rarely acknowledge about the air war over Germany and German occupied Europe.
Very well noted. In fact in the greatest documentary series of them all. the World at War, Albert Speer acknowledged that. The Soviets were always asking for a 2nd front--the Allied airforce had effectively given it to them.
P-47s with drop tanks could have escorted the bombers during black week. The bomber mafia resisted escorts as the bombers were "flying fortresses". The P-51 was preferred by the USAF because it was cheaper than the P-47.
That's actually not true, not sure if this is coming from Greg again. The P-47 lacked requisite internal fuel until the D-25 with it's expanded 370 capacity. That wasn't available in numbers until after Overlord. Let me know if you'd like the fuller explanation.
I read somewhere that the P51 cost $80k, the P47 €180k. But I've not seen a reference for this information.
Greg was spot on in his analysis of the P-47 drop tank situation. @@ME-xh7zp
@@markdavis2475 Ish, the P-47 was more expensive but it was more expensive but that wasn't a driving force in decision making during the war.
@@ME-xh7zp For Berlin. They could make it to Schwienfort.
Bomber crews were expected to do 25 missions and then would be sent home, sadly many crews never made it past 5. In 1943 the average bomber crew was expected to complete 8 to 12 missions before being shot down. Sometimes new replacement crews never came back from their first mission, they were known on the bases as "they came to dinner ", yet, they still went, brave indeed.
My grandfather was in the 405 pathfinders RCAF. His Halifax was shot down in july '43 he was on his second tour. Once as a boy my grandmother opened a drawer and said "those are your grandfather's medals, he was a very brave man" she never spoke of him again. She kept his picture up in her room till she passed l keep his picture on my wall to this day. They were all very brave men, thank you.
I knew a man from my apprenticeship Who did 70 night missions flying Lancasters as a Pilot Officer
Guy Gibson completed 172 missions before he even led the Dambusters raid.
I just finished reading Masters of The Air great book and I couldn't put it down. I always knew General Jimmy Stewart flew with the 8th. Did not know how many combat missions he flew or that he eventually became squadron commander and also flew combat missions in Vietnam, RIP General Stewart. Recently watched the show Combat America done by Clark Gable and he also flew with the 8th. Thanks to all now serving, those who have, and those who will in the future. FLY NAVY!!!
When Doolittle took over the 8th, he changed their mission statement from "Protect the Bombers" to "Destroy Enemy Fighters." He also changed the credit for an air to ground kill, meaning a fighter destroyed on the ground was the same kill as an air to sir shootdown. Leaders such as Hub Zempke took their fighters to the ground and once the bombers turned for home the 47s and 51s beat the hell out of the German airfields.
And some of them paid the price...see Gabby Gabreski.
Thanks for the shout-out to the Link Trainer, which my Dad operated teaching instrument flight, instrument landing, and radio navigation skills to pilots in basic training during the war. Much better to make and learn from your mistakes on the ground in a rotating (and banking, pitching and shaking) barrel than in the air in a valuable airplane. Link practice was deemed so valuable that everyone with pilot's wings-even Hap Arnold-had to re-certify on it every so often.
My grandfather was a Link Trainer. He wouldn't talk about his war service, feeling guilty for not being operational himself & seeing so many of his pupils killed!
Just curious, how realistic did it feel? Did they add a video screen, sound effects? Not trying to talk this thing down, just curious how far they went
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 the trainer was meant to train pilots to navigate and fly by instruments without visual cues, so no video display until after WWII.
7:58 the link trainer borders on looking "cute" that it looks like a kiddie ride at a carnival, but it did it's job
I bet someone will still argue that the German soldiers (generic for soldiers, airmen, sailors etc.) were supermen until the end of the war. And their equipment was superior. Not so fast. The German military was half by horse and half by car. Only American and British militaries were fully motorized (or if you want to be extremally picky 97% to 99% motorized). The biggest success of the bombing campaign was destroying German oil/fuel.
Good reason to have horses don't you think? I love it when people think there is only one reason that the Allies won and/or the Germans lost.
the german tanks ran out of gas
@@heaven-is-real there are a multitude of reasons, not one simple truth why they lost. They also severely over extended their forces and were over confident (all the yes men around Hitler didn't tell the truth about how bad it was actually getting) leading to combat disasters.
The Soviets won the war and we were a side show. Look at the numbers.
@@GrandPrixDecals😂 so the Post WW2 soviet propaganda claims, their nrs are at best inaccurate and their loss nrs are disingenuous. Furthermore the Soviets achievements are built off the back of the economic might of the US & British Empire.
great video, many thanks to all those would helped to make/produce it
There’s an excellent 8th Airforce museum in Savannah Georgia. We owe those brave men big time.
Been there... there's a collection of unit histories that they can research for you...or at least tell you where to look
I visited the 8th AF museum soon after it opened. The docent for my group was a bombardier on a B-17 that was shot down on their 6th mission. I spent the remainder of the war in a German POW camp. I wish I had written down his name.
They could have flown with drop tanks and p47s years earlier. The leadership was the problem.
sorry you are wrong . P47 thunderbolts were never going to be combat ready until apr/may 1943. yes the drop tanks should have been ready then but that is a different story
Drop tanks could never have solved the P-47's range problem. Only internal fuel could. The P-47C one held about 250 gallons of internal fuel and this was not seriously addressed until the -D25, which did not see service until May, 1944. When the USAAF flew its first raid on Berlin on 6 March, 1944, the bulk of P-47s flew with 476 gallons and a small number flew with 586 gallons. This was because a few had been re-plumbed to carry under wing tanks. But it takes approximately half the fuel in an external tank to get the other half there. The majority of P-47s couldn't get past the Dutch border. The second group couldn't get to Magdeburg.
By contrast the P-51 carried 416 gallons and flew all the way to Berlin and back.
Just in time for the tv series, looking forward to these amazing stories brought to life!
When the 51 got the merlin engine, it was game over😮
Great video thanks for sharing.
Great story - 💖 to those that served.
Superb video and I’m proud to say I’ve flown in Sally -B twice .
I had the pleasure of going inside of B-17G at Planes of Fame in Chino, California and man, it's small inside. Hit my head 3x before I learned to stoop while I was in there.
Very cramped, gave me a new perspective on what these fine young men went through. (This specific plane did not make it into the war, by the time it was ready, war ended)
Odd to show an Avro Manchester leading the RAF contribution to Op Big Week in 1944; they well were retired by then! That aside, the basic premise of the title I find simplistic. The defeat of the Luftwaffe was down to combined Allied action over a sustained period and across both the Western European and Soviet theatres, with American industrial potential rapidly outpacing German manufacturing and access to resources. Their shortage of pilots was matched by shortages fuel, lubricants, metal alloys and rubber, to name but a few. Nevertheless, Big Week certainly had an impact they never recovered from. And as you say the human side is hard now to understand. Just as it was far more deadly to be Bomber Command Aircrew then to have served as an infantry soldier in the trenches of WWI, the aircrews of the 8th showed the highest standard of sustained bravery and paid an immense price to secure our freedom. I salute them all.
They also show an F6F Hellcat being shot down as a "German" plane.
But yes, those men were incredible. My grandfather was one of them.
It was more than just the P-51's ability to fly to Berlin and back with the extra fuel tanks. The P-51B/C and P-47D was also by the beginning of 1944 much faster and have better high-altitude performance than the Bf-109G-6 and Fw-190A-8 models common in Luftwaffe service in the same period. Because the Luftwaffe flew inferior aircraft, that's why they suffered grievous heavy losses in experienced pilots they never recoverd from.
The p51d was superior over the b and c in terms of the Merlin engine and extra guns
@@MattKearneyFan1 Actually, The P-51B/C were the first to get the Packard Merlin V-1650-C engine. Those Mustangs were astonishingly fast (441 mph in early 1943!) and helped the P-51B/C become formidable high-altitude fighters by early 1944.
@@Sacto1654 not all the early models had the Merlin. Some had the Allison engines
@@MattKearneyFan1 You're referring to the P-51A/A-36 models fitted with the Allison
V-1710 engine, which only had a single stage supercharger and lacked high altitude performance. It was the B/C models that got the Packard Merlin engines that made it an astonishing high-altitude fighter.
This video perpetuates the myth that the P-51 enabled the long range escort missions when really it was the arrival of drop tanks - the P-47 could escort bombers to Berlin and back just like the P-51 could when drop tanks were used. In reality the bomber mafia was looking for a scapegoat for their earlier blocking of the development of drop tanks and made the excuse of the P-51 and Merlin engine as CYA for their careers and legacy.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video, very informative ❤. (ignore the haters)
Another outstanding video! Extremely informative! Thank you!
Another interesting documentary... Well done to all concerned... Roger... Pembrokeshire
Another factor was pilot quality. Ever wondered why there were German aces with hundreds of kills while the Western allies topped out around at 30? The Germans kept their top pilots flying and fighting whereas we withdrew them and sent them to train and share their experience and knowledge with pilots in training. The end result was the quality of the rookie was vastly superior to the German rookie. The attrition rate between airforces was vast. It was the reverse of the Battle of Britain when German pilots were at a much higher standard compared to allied airman, many that had 10 hours or so in Spitfires. By 1944 the Germans were tossing poorly trained rookies into the grinder.
We owe so much to the allied air forces.. it must of been hell up there.. and on the recieving end... Respect.
This was what Hitler or Tojo of Japan never understood about aerial warfare; it takes 2-3 years to make a competent pilot. You can make a Mitsubishi Zero from scratch within weeks, but it takes years to make a pilot great enough to pilot that effectively.
Said the same thing elsewhere, we fought the best of the Luftwaffe in the early years. Even if the total shot down count paints a different story
The Japanese lost more than just the carriers themselves when one went down. Attrition of aircrew and mechanics was unsustainable; replacement training was insufficient.
Sounds like the training for Ukrainian F16 pilots
We?@@chrisfletcher86
The Japanese Navy did understand this. Tojo was army. You can't make a Zero or any airplane from scratch.
Very well done. Thank you. The strategic decision to use daylight bombing missions as a way to destroy the Luftwaffe is little understood in America. In retrospect, it was a cold-blooded decision that cost many lives, but was probably unavoidable for the successful invasion of Europe.
I once read in Adolf Galand's memoirs that in 43, interrogations of US airmen was showing that the 8th air force was close to collapse. You touch on it here. I think it's under appreciated just how close things came to disaster.
The Brits warned them about daylight bombing raids as they experienced them.The American mafia wouldn't listen. They believed their bombers with all it's machine guns would prevail. Back fired on them badly. The P51 was defiantly a life saviour for the Americans and the Brits.
The Schweinfurt-Regensburg which resulted in a loss of 60 B-17 and nearly 100 damaged, many heavily damaged beyond repair. The cold calculus of daytime bombing without fighter escort told the 8th AF that this was unsustainable.
@@localkiwi9988 The Augsburg Raid, 17 April 1942.
12 Lanc's, 7 aircraft shot down, 5 badly damaged.
And RAF heavies continued to operate in daylight until August 42.
They would resume in June 44 after the USAAF cleared the sky.
Lanc loss rate was about 50% higher than B17 while flying only at night for almost two years.
8th AF heavies shot down 6,098 enemy aircraft, Lanc's 320.
@@nickdanger38028th AF heavies shot down 6,098 enemy aircraft? I don't think so. They may have claimed 6,098, but they shot down nowhere near that number. Let me give you an example of their overclaiming. On April 17, 1943, the 8th AF raided Bremen in Germany, and lost 16 heavies, by far the biggest loss up to that date. They were unescorted, so none of the German fighter losses can be attributed to fighters. The US gunners claimed to have destroyed 63 German fighters. The true losses? Five aircraft, with one pilot MIA. And this was not an atypical result. US gunners usually overclaimed badly. The biggest cause of German fighter losses was US fighters, primarily P-51s, which came into service in December of 1943.
Your claim that RAF heavies continued to operate in daylight until August 1942 gives the impression that they did so often. That's not the case. The Augsburg raid was one of only a handful of British heavy bomber missions which were flown by day.
@@nickdanger3802 1. First RAF raid to Berlin Aug 25 1940 First raid over Germany Sep 39
2. Sep 41 197 bombers to Berlin
3. Lancaster/Halifax 858039 Long tons dropped Mostly by night
4. USAAF 761802 long tons
5. 8325 RAF bombers lost in 68 Months 10152 USAAF bombers lost in 33 months not too good my friend
6. RAF in the war twice as long dropped more tonnage lost less men and Planes
7. Battle Of Britain 1690/2000 Germans shot down Hard to catch up Nick AND in operation Point Blank Spitfire Mark IXs had the major share in 2950 enemy destroyed by Mar 44
8. RAF Bombers larger load and heavier bombs B17 max bomb size 2000 lb B24 4000 lb but had to be slung externally
9 RAF 8000lb 12000lb 22000lb
10. US H/B losses 10152 Lanc losses 3349 50% of that is 1674.5 So the B24 lost 8477 is that right Nick?
11 The 8th shot down 6098 fighters that is very good.
Hi iv just watched hard trashers videos on the bomber mafia, may be a coincidence but I feel you need to give him some credit...
Keep up the good work!
The shots of them lads bailing out a downward spinning B17. ! Jesus wet. You wouldn't want it ay. ? 👊💛👊
Spinning induced centrifugal forces. Escape wasn't easy; many didn't.
My dad hung many a drop tank under the wings of P-51s, including those flown by aces MAJ Sam Brown and 1LT Norman Skogstad.
Duxford is one of my favourite places in the world. Love your work, IWM.
Can anyone tell me the source of the clip at 3:37? One of the plane captains in the Composite group at the bottom of the chalkboard may be a (distant) relative and I'm keen to find out more! Is there any way to know which bomb group/sqdn is represented here?
It might be worth writing to the Imperial War Museum in London . It has a vast collection of photos, film and other papers. Since this is a IWM video it could be a good place to start Maybe a first contact via it's website? There will probably be a fee for the search.
I suggest that the USAF has a similar Museum collection also.
“A typical interception in the fall of 1942 has been described by Johannes Naumann, at that time the an Oberleutnant in II/JG 26. The Gruppe was ordered to attack the bombers on their return flight as there was no chance of reaching them on their bomb run. The B-17’s were flying in a staggered formation at about 26,000 feet. The Focke Wulfs finally struggled up to 27,000 feet, only to see the American formation receding into the distance. The speed of the FW 190’s at that altitude was only a little greater than that of the bombers…No bombers were downed; none had even suffered visible damage.”
Top Guns of the Luftwaffe p. 125 by Donald L. Caldwell
Early loses to the 8th were from head on attacks resulting in a turret being added to the B-17G. You can see it on the plane behind the woman commenting. In the long run bombers were intentionally or unintentionally used to as bait to lure luftwaffe fighters in to be destroyed.
No mention of 'The Red Tails' who flew the Mustangs. B17 pilots loved their 'Red Tail' escorts.
They flew in the 15th Air Force out of Italy. The video is about the 8th Air Force.
3:52 - we get to the first ‘myth’ of the allied bombing campaign: earlier models of fighter planes had insufficient range ‘for the first year of the campaign’. This is wrong to two reasons:
1. The first year of the campaign - 1942 - was largely focused on targets within range of existing fighters as they were then configured. The spitfire had a good record in escorting bombing raids deep into France. The two american fighters at the time - the P38 and P47 had sufficient range to escort bombers to and from the German borders.
2. By the time of the disastrous Schweinfurt raids in maid-late 1943 next to no attention had been given to what would be very minor tweaks (and ones that the manufacturers of the spitfire and thunderbolt were already all over) to allow fighter escorts well into Germany. The problem was not a lack of available technology, but a lack of direction by the bomber mafia generals back in Washington and- their belief in ‘the bomber will always get through’ blinded them to the advances in fighter design and armament over the preventing 3 years of the european theatre of the war. The P47 had the internal plumbing already in place for external drop tanks, and there were two large tanks available, which even with very conservative fuel economy estimates would have gotten them within miles of Schweinfurt. They only needed a small tweak to get them all the way there, fight, back with a good reserve of fuel, and if anyone bothered to ask Republic at any stage before the Schweinfurt raids for that tweek, as subsequent and rapid e developments proved, they could have been provided well within time. The same goes for the spitfire. Jeffrey quill proved that it was possible to fly a Mk IX from London to Berlin and return with a single slipper drop tank. If the leading edge of the wings (on both sides of the gun ports) was used for extra internal tanks, that would have provided another 100+ imperil gallons of fuel (in front of the plane’s centre of gravity, which was important for longitudinal stability) - ie. more than enough to get to germany, fight and get back. The fact that the PR models already used a wet wing demonstrated that this was all very feasible by mid 1943.
*_"2. By the time of the disastrous Schweinfurt raids in maid-late 1943 next to no attention had been given to what would be very minor tweaks (and ones that the manufacturers of the spitfire and thunderbolt were already all over) to allow fighter escorts well into Germany."_*
This isn't true. Actually, it's too generalised to be accurate. Drop tanks could not solve the P-47's range problem. The problem was that it could only be cured by increasing internal fuel. In the meantime, ground crews were slowly modifying the P-47 to carry underwing tanks and that involved cutting metal. It wasn't until late 1944 that it became a line modification. In the meantime, the internal fuel capacity and been increased from about 250 to 300 gallons. In other words, Republic were bloody slow coming to the party on what should have been an obvious one modification.
The Spitfire was nobbled by Leigh Mallory.
These videos are excellent 👏Please can we have a video on the midget submarines - and the Italian frogman submarines? Please? Thank you
4:12 Hurray! For the first time _ever_ in the history of man, somebody has used the word 'decimated' correctly!! 😂🎉
Was surprised when I read more airmen died in Europe than
Marines in the Pacific .. both paid a heavy price for the Europe of today
That jacket at 05.03 would not have sufficed in the summer. At 30,000 feet (10,000 metres) the air temperature is about minus 45 degrees centigrade irrespective of seasons. Year round the heavy protective suits were needed.
The P-51D Mustang did not appear in combat until May 1944. By then, the victory of the Allies had been a foregone conclusion by at least 18 months.
It has been said that more Mustangs were lost to attacking trains that in aerial combat. The Germans even had special AA cars designed as regular ones.
Just finished “Masters of the Air” (now I can drop my AppleTV subscription 😏) and - while not as heartwarming as “Band of Brothers” - the cinematic display of bombers vs figures was AWESOME!!! There was careful work to blend the CGI with colorgraded and enhanced WWII stock footage that felt like it was all shot in 4K restaged! And you really felt the arbitrary roll of the dice that left flying at one moment or dying a horrific death in another… these were MEN!!!
Take a stroll up the walkway at the US museum at Duxford and you can see for yourself the overwhelming loss the 8th took.
Unacceptable losses.
Always fighting.
I also love the story of The Tuskegee Airmen....
An important contribution of the attacks was that German fighters were pulled away from the Eastern front. This relieved much pressure from the Soviets, who did most of the fighting anyway.
What really killed the Luftwaffe was bombing the oil refineries. They couldn't be moved underground. At the end the wasn't enough fuel for the Panzers or the Luftwaffe.
Cough SAS
🤡🤡🤡🤡
What killed the Luftwaffe was the P-51.
By the end of 1943, the USAAF in Europe had shot down 451 German fighters. 'Operation Argument', also known as 'Big Week', was a tactic intended to draw the Luftwaffe into a battle it could not afford and everyone knew it. In February, 1944, the P-47s shot down 233 German fighters, the P-51 got 89.5 and the P-38 got 32.5. In March, the P-47 got 175, the P-51 got 251 and the P-38 got 25. In April, the P-51 shot down a massive 329 German aircraft. The P-47 got 82 and the P-38 got 23. And the Mustangs did it with half the number of squadrons the P-47 had. The figures remained that way for the rest of the war. The P-51 also destroyed 30% more ground targets than the P-47.
By mid year, Flak was more of a danger to US bombers than fighters were. It was only then that the fuel problem really started to bite but the Luftwaffe was already defeated. The P-51 ended the war with 4,950 German fighters shot down in 213,000 sorties. The P-47 shot down 3,082 in 423,000 sorties, so the hit rate of the P-51 was nearly three times as good and it did so without suffering exceptional casualties.
The P-51 wrecked the Luftwaffe.
Don't forget: if you ticked someone off your plane eas sent to the BACK of the formation, where 90% of losses occurred after the flak gunners were well-zeroed in.
I have seen little reference to, and even less information about, Allied vs Axis fuel quality.
There must have been basic performance differences and knock-on effects on operational and maintenance issues, yet no detailed analysis to be found . . .
From early 1940 the US was supplying high octane avgas which allowed for increased boost. it was one of the key factors in the Battle of Britain.
German C3 Fuel, Uber Octane or Synthetic Crap?
th-cam.com/video/NJP7iouMwsE/w-d-xo.html
The P-38 Lightning was known for it's Incredible range in the Pacific. Since it wasn't enough to go deep into Germany and back I would like to know how much more range the Mustang had?
With the help of Fighter Command and Bomber Command of the Royal Air Force?
Great video, in the process of trying to learn on how to play gary grigsby's eagle day to bombing the reich
Winning the air war was huge!
I would like to clear up some regrettable confusion about the range of the P-47 in 1944. There are two books written by American WW2 P-47 aces, Thunderbolt by Robert S. Johnson and Martin Caiden, and Zemke's Wolfpack by Roger Freeman and Hub Zemke. The book by Freeman and Zemke is more accurate. Col. Zemke was in direct contact with 8th Air Force generals and he was always trying to get better equipment to improve the P-47's performance. His book is full of complaints about how the P-47's shorter range meant that the longer range missions to Berlin were given to the P-51 groups. Johnson's book "Thunderbolt" contains strange inaccuracies about the P-47's range. In Chapter 16, Johnson says that on March 6 1944 "We flew the direct route to the German capital". Johnson says this right after saying that they had received new belly tanks that increased their range to such an extent that they flew missions all the way to Berlin. On the next page Johnson describes the combat for the March 6 mission and he says it took place "west of Hannover" which is nowhere near Berlin. Hub Zemke in his book also describes the March 6 combat and he says it took place above Dümmer Lake, also west of Hannover. There are several other times in Johnson's book where he says their fighter group flew missions to Berlin, but nowhere in the book does Johnson say that he flew over Berlin. I have found no such inaccuracies in Zemke's book.
This makes me want to re-read "Catch-22."
6:45 the first mustangs were powered by Allison v-12s not Merlin’s the later versions all had Merlin engines
The main problem was with both the British and American generals. They at first did not believe in the feasibility of long range fighters. General Arnold at one point stopped the development of drop tanks except for ferrying. The British thought that the Battle of Britain proved that short range fighters would always beat long range fighters. The British had a long range version of the Spitfire but that was a reconnaissance version.
I wouldn't describe your sponsor World of Warships as "Totally free to play." More like free to try in a very limited way.
10:16 - I wonder if he survived flying through that dirt-cloud?
If he didn't there wouldn't be any film to watch.😂
Hands down, the P-51 was the Harley-Davidson of WWII.
Did it drip all over the run way? Was it a b*tch to start? 😂
My great uncle was an aerospace engineer and wrote papers on drop tanks prior to their implementation.
The title makes me sad considering the source is so normally epic. The British Commonwealth Aircrew Training Plan, all those Lancasters built by said Commonwealth, all those Americans who prior to 1941 came up to Canada to get involved, the Merlin combined with the Mustang... and it all comes down to the 8th?
The video is accurate. Johnnie Johnson, the great British fighter ace, wrote "How we longed for a Spitfire which could fly to Berlin and back, so that we fighter pilots of the Royal Air Force could play our part in the great daylight battles of 1943 and 1944 fought over Germany between the Luftwaffe and the Eighth Air Force. But we had to be content with fighter sweeps over France and the Low Countries while the Mustang, with its radius of action of six hundred miles, fought the Messerschmitt 109s and Focke-Wulf 190s over the Reich and gained an ever-increasing dominance over the Luftwaffe from which it never recovered." (From the foreword of William Green's "Famous Fighters of the Second World War", page 7)
Germans had the same issues the Japanese had, they ran out of well trained experienced pilots by the midpoint of the war. Most of the experienced pilots were lost over Britain in the battle of Britain.
Might be accurate to say the 8th finished them off, but the numbers don't paint a fair picture
@@patrickreilly2026 That's what one RAF fighter pilot said in someone else's book. The Mosquito had no such range limitations, despite having two of the same engines, to the point where it was one of the first allied aircraft to tangle with not only the jet-powered Me 262, but also the Dornier Pfail puller/pusher.
@@aaronleverton4221 and did the RAF use it as air superiority fighter like the Spitfire or Mustang? The answer is no so how does that invalidate Johnson's statement?
@@chrisfletcher86 they lost some but the BOB was nearly 4 years prior to Big Week. The Germans had maintained air parity at the very least up to then so it's hard to maintain that their pilot losses in 1940 caused the loss of air superiority in 1944.
My Grandfather flew 61 missions for Bomber Command from the start of hostilities until the early morning of April 14th of 1941. They survived ditching in the Channel...I'm here.
It was the 56th fighter group newly equipped with drop tanks that pioneered the tactics to lead the bomber formations to meet the Luftwaffe's head-on attacks, break them up and have top cover fighters pick the separated Luftwaffe fighters off in diving attacks. The 56th was equipped with P47Ds and initiated these tactics at a time when only two fighter groups were equipped with the new P51s. The difference in ranges of the P51 and P47Ds are less than is popularly believed. It was the belated availability of drop tanks that made escorts into Germany possible and should've been a focus of General Arnold whose job it was to require necessary equipment to be made available by US industry. With that said the P51 was a pilot friendly easily produced classic of a fighter and it's choice as the escort fighter of choice was the correct one.
I just listened to "the bomber mafia" 😊, but I do not know how I got here 😮
I can argue that that Rolls Royce won the air war with the Merlin engine.
Where did the avgas come from ?
"For the next important and powerful Merlin 66 engine, Rolls Royce finally decided to use the Bendix-Stromberg Injection carburettor. The American Bendix-Stromberg pressure carburettor was developed in the mid 1930’s and was in production from 1938. This carburettor was designed to operate as a fully pressurised fuel system that dispensed with the problematic float controlled fuel level with its emulsion tubes and diffusers. Negative G had no effect on fuel flow or carburettor function. The pressurised and metered fuel flow was delivered as a spray into the inlet air stream just in front of the supercharger inlet. This feature virtually removed the risk of carburettor icing, in fact the throttles and chokes of the injection carburettor did not need heating by hot oil or coolant circulation at all and their deletion removed several other problems associated with the previous provision of those heating circuits.
Rolls Royce had been aware of the Bendix-Stromberg Pressure type of carburettor for several years and versions of the carburettor were used on many American engines including the Allison V-1710. Notably, Packard built their Merlins in the USA with a version of the Bendix PD16 from the very start of Packard Merlin production."
ROLLS-ROYCE MERLIN CARBURETTOR DEVELOPMENT page
Not enough mention of the P47, and to a lessor extent the P38, which preceded the P51. The P47 fought before the P51, when the Luftwaffe was much stronger. In regards to the drop tanks I thought you would have mentioned the paper mache, paper, drop tanks developed by the RAF. Also there was a lot of political noise coming from Stalin, who wanted Britain & the US to open a second front to ease the pressure on the Soviet forces.
Political reasons kept existing fighter aircraft receiving long range drop,tanks. Aircraft manufacturers were discouraged developing of drop tanks to extend the range of their aircraft. Despite this Republic had fuel drop tanks developed anyway,but the army air corps didn’t want the drop tanks.
Yes the drop tanks were important, but not as important as the sheer luck of being able to adapt the Merlin engine to the P-51. That is what gave the Mustang the necessary high altitude speed and maneuverability enough to outfly the German planes. That combination won the war in the west.
I wonder how things would have been if North American had built P-40s for the RAF like they were originally asked to do instead of designing the P-51 instead.
It's a sad sad day when the Imperial War Museum needs.sponsorship from a videogame.
It's also worth mentioning that Carl Spaatz was trying to prove that the Air Force should be its own military branch, and strategic bombing was a way to show they could contribute meaningfully as an independent force, not shackled to being a close air support division. He was selling the strategic bombing for reasons beyond just damaging Germany.
I don't remember the source, but I recall a good estimate that the Nazi's had to divert the equivalent of a whole army in men, fuel, ammunition and other resources to meet the 8th Air Force attacks. These resources could have been used elsewhere. Who knows what all those resources could have done in the east.
An error in the video; the P-51 Mustang was delivered with Allison engines. The P-51-D Mustang (the last model) was the one that had Merlin engines.
No, only the P-51A had the Allison engine and I don't think it was ever used by the 8th
Hap Arnold later lamented that they should have heeded the lessons learned and reported on the Spanish Civil war. Escort fighters were needed even then in 1937.
In the end, the Allies' industrial capacity allowed them to outnumber the enemy with better aircraft (P-51s, Spitfires), better pilots (as the LW fielded more young replacement pilots) and better technology (eg gyro gunsights). Destroying the LW in the air, on the ground and in the factories was a priority to reduce allied bomber losses.
2:45 - “precision bombing” - lols. As a concept it was a complete failure in ww2. It only started to become a reality in the first Gulf War 40 years later. German war production actually continued to increase in volume throughout the war
Notice that the thumbnail photo is an early D without the fillet tying the vertical stab to the upper fuselage.
You mean a B or a C? The D was the only model with a Merlin and a bubble cockpit.
Some early D’s lost their tails in full throttle dives so they came up with a triangular fillet to go where I noted to add some strength to the top of the aft fuselage.
There is a widely published picture of a flight of P51’s that shows D’s with and without the fillet.
@@TehButterflyEffect Also, The B and C had Packard built Merlins.
Well said.
Nothing said.
Bomber Losses, Germany and Northern Europe
HC Deb 07 July 1943 vol 390 cc2062-3
6. Mr. Stokes asked the Secretary of State for Air how many British bombers were lost over Germany and Northern Europe during the month of June; and whether he can give a corresponding figure for the same month for losses suffered by American bomber aircraft over the same area?
Sir A. Sinclair 276 British and 82 American bomber aircraft operating from this country were reported lost over Germany and Northern Europe during June, 1943.
Mr. Stokes Would my right hon. Friend agree that the total for the year is of the order of 1,430?
Sir A. Sinclair My hon. Friend must put that Question down.
I think a more accurate title would be how the 8th airforce helped to defeat the luftwaffe.
1:17 to skip advertising
I've read that while the German industry was producing aircraft at a high rate, it wasn't just he lack of pilots the held back the Luftwaffe but also a general lack of EVERYTHING required for the prosecution of a war.
The British went to a war footing immediately and instituted the "war economy" while Lord Beaverbrooke took over aircraft production ( along with many others ) I don't think the German economy EVER had the mass to take on even the British by themselves. The British economy had far more manufacturing than the German in the 1930's
In a word: Attrition.
My mother was the recipient of these bombings. She lived in Berlin her and her femily, and they survived.
What's the history of that statue of Prometheus? What did it look like before it was wrecked? Was it stolen?
The Luftwaffe was defeated the day they declared war on the USA It was just a matter of time and attrition
Attrition ... that's it.
P38's and P47's worked quite fine as escort fighters too.
As long as you didn't want to go to Berlin or Schweinfurt.
@@thethirdman225 for a time... The P-51D had a range of 1,650 miles and the P-47N with the new interior fuel supply and fuel in wings plus the three huge drop tanks had a range of 2,350 miles, 700 miles longer and ended up being chosen to escort the B-29 bombers on their raids to Japan from the Marianas.
8:41 Manchester???
Astounding, that it always has to come to a catastrophe, before humans rethink and implement changes.
One often overlooked factor in the Allies gaining air supremacy over Germany, was the use of leaded, high-octane gasoline. When the British first started using high-octane gasoline during the Battle of Britain, it improved the Spitfire's performance so much that the Germans thought they were facing a new version of the aircraft.
Didn’t know about the different gas, thanks great point
It wasn't the gasoline. Those were high compression engines, which were much more efficient at utilizing the energy in the fuel. The higher octane in the fuel prevented early/premature combustion in those high compression engines. Superchargers and turbochargers also made for big increases in engine horsepower.
They were facing more horsepower via running more boost in the supercharger which was enabled by the higher octane avgas.
Winning the War through Bombing
"Losses were running at the unsustainable rate of 6-7 per cent per raid, with no prospect of a German surrender. With Germany reasserting command of the air and the Normandy landings in prospect, Arthur Harris's dream of defeating Germany through bombing was slipping away."
BBC Berlin Air Offensive page
The British V12 Rolls Royce Merlin engine gave the P-51great performance fitted with the orginial Allison engine, the P-51 performance was average. The drop tanks were certainly a game changer also U.S. wartime manufacturing ground the Nazis into the ground.
I often wonder how the war would have went if Germany had never attacked the Soviet Union. I expect that they never had invaded the UK but if Germany's entire Air force had been stationed over Europe it might have ended differently (espcially if the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact had held for longer giving Germany a ready source of cheap raw material) Though to be fair once the Us was in the war it was baiscally over as nobody was able to actually touch the US (the sole exception would be Operation Paukenschlag where German submarines attacked coastal installations and ships and that was only once). The main isse was of course the long sea route but with Engima cracked the German wolf packs were vulnerable
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One of the reasons the bomber campaign didn't have the effect that was expected, was that Germany had an army of barely fed slaves labour to rebuild and man their factories.