A lovely new entrant in the keyword series! Per my usual, I took notes and have a few comments: The distinction between attack density and unit density is very relevant, and you're right that the downfall of the giants is in part due to their bad unit and attack density. Giants that break this mold tend to be significantly better, and for that matter, where are the dual-wielding giants? I don't think any exist, which is a bit too bad. The discoboloi get two pankration attacks, but that's stretching it. The part where you either weren't aware or skipped is that you lose 1 point of defense for each 10 fatigue you rack up, and 1 attack per 20 fatigue on top of becoming more vulnerable to armor-defeating attacks. This means that giants who aren't fatigue-neutral are even more susceptible to being worn down than humans, because of their bad unit and attack density density. Relying on stacking defense as a giant is probably not going to work. As for size 3 units, these are generally called "ogre sized", because, well, ogres are size 3. Ogres are a bit of a mixed bag, because as you say, they're both the best and worst of both worlds. Enkidu are famous for being a bit shit as fighters, but Palankasha and Kala-Mukha are rather terrifying with a nice bless. Guhyakas also would be bloody horrific if they learned how to wear pants. Personally, I think the distinction between Enkidu and Dawn Guard is attack/defense skill. Dawn Guard are excellent units and fight humans efficiently, while Enkidu as a whole tend to be relatively unskilled and also often forget that wearing armor is a good idea. But they can't reliably hit things, which wastes their excellent strength. Units of size 4+ get a bonus 1 length to any weapon they use, which makes repel memes a thing. I don't think you mentioned it, sorry if you did. The plural of Jotun, in Icelandic at least, is Jotnar. I really appreciated your talk on threat profiles, and I think it's about spot-on. The only thing I have to add, and I don't think I can quantify this, is that mid to lategame Dominions feels like a binary. When going up against Foul Vapors, you either have some kind of response or you get poisoned to death. When you're fighting under Wailing Winds or Dark Skies, you either have mindless/berserk troops or inspirational +6 leaders, and dragon helms on all your mages, or you run away. There are many *potential* responses to each situation, but you either have an answer or you get cheesed. Agarthans are terrible, but their synergy with mind blasters or casts of Darkness is nice. Even an Agarthan can hit a paralyzed guy. Again, this is hard to quantify, but I think that as a rule giant auxiliaries are better than a purely giant nation. EA Niefelheim has an awful troop lineup because they don't really have any human-sized units, while MA Jotunheim gets Vaettir and Vaetti Hags. LA Gath gets better-scaling sacreds than Hinnom, in part because their Levite Zealots are humans and recruitable anywhere. Having the option to use giants is good, but not having to account for their flaws is nice. Your take on hot-swapping SC gear is quite accurate. My only comment is that this is a cousin to transitioning to a gem economy, in that you're still recruiting your SC chassis but gearing a true SC is probably at least 30 gems and could be as many as 70, depending on your anticipated threat profile and stage of the game. For that cost, you could cast hidden in foo and get an army and 1-3 mages. As always, thank you very much for your videos! I hope to see many, many more.
I think true gung-ho risk takers are just rarer creatures, in life and in gaming. The research i've seen seems to back that up. Dominions is also a long, high investment game, so people get really quite protective of their empires. If it takes you 2-3 weeks to build up a field army, are you really going to risk it all on a less than sure thing? You're probably going to play safe if you can. That may be a perfectly fine call, but if the other side gets to assume that you're 80% likely to play safe, then suddenly they are safe to pursue more aggressive tactics while being less worried about being pushed, and therein lies an advantage. I think the most dangerous player is one that is capable of both frustrating caution and intimidating aggression, depending on what the situation calls for.
I love these playstyle breakdowns they. It's nice to hear a person who knows what they're talking about. Also that historically accurate map seems awesome, where can I get it?
I've found that using thugs/SCs as part of armies is often a very good idea as it can make that army much harder to counter. If you manage to give them berserk and enough reinvigoration they won't rout either, and even if you lose they can cause a lot of damage before going down.
Some nation analysis are always appreciated - but i would also be interested in an assessment of the various global spells - its uses and how usefull each one is plus maybe some input which nations should go for which global (besides the obvious mother oak for strong nature nations - pangea). But to be honest - any dom 5 video i will watch ;)
I guess any commentary I have on the subject from the outside would focus on the specifics of each nation so wouldn't really be applicable to this video. A brief explanation of what makes Hinnom's Melqarts worse than Berytos and why having air on a combatant is better than astral. Maybe a short section on the ability of certain nations and circumstances to mix size one and two units in to cut down on harassment? But to my knowledge that is exceedingly rare, so I don't know., that might be a function of a player's willingness to sort through their troops and script them to make that happen. I am intrigued by the size three segment that seems to be in the works and would recommend that cavalry either get its own section either in the video or on its own. Thinking about it, cavalry probably needs its own video as well since they represent another threat profile with its own tactical and strategic considerations.
Around 33:30 .. EA Agartha is also a good example. Just try out ancient ones with an awake Fontain of Blood with dom 7 E4N7B9 (hardskin+regen+blood vengeance+1HP) with heat3, misfortune 2, drain 3. At Biddyn map, it's easy to get 27 territories by turn 12 against a single easy AI.
My main problem by playing giants - early in the game many of them kinda suck vs hard hitting humans, and later too much soul slays-like spells for even most magic resisted SC. Or even worse - blood spells, which cant be resisted at all. But strangely - i enjoy playing giants.
Fomorian Goatfaces are the best giants. Would it be fair to say that giants take buffs better than human-sized troops, and will remain relevant longer whe late game battlefield turns into an arty party?
That seems far too broad to be useful, given the number of nations where that is the default. I think the best next topic would either be Ogres/other name for Size 3 entities, to act as a followup to this video, or Aquatic and Amphibious, to go over nations unified by water access, and in some cases, water starting positions.
@@88Factor All of these videos are broad. This one is almost an hour long. It would be very useful, humans are a common troop type and just because they are the standard doesn't mean they lack strengths and weaknesses compared to the non standard units. There are specific things you want to see in human troops. You don't want low damage weapons like spears because humans have bad strength, you need high protection or defense more than most because humans have only 10 hit points, and although everyone likes multiple attacks humans exploit them better than most because they are size 2. That's just troops and doesn't cover cavalry. There's all sorts of useful information on humans to talk about.
@@bread1958 ...I mean... if you want your troops to do the killing spears aren't great... but most human nations DON'T want their troops doing the killing...
If on steam, steam workshop has maps. Just subscribe and it should appear. Otherwise I think the mods section in game let's you know how to download maps and there's several sites to download load them from.
I use the term demi-giant here. I think others use the term ogres, but I get what you're saying, they are a mid point really, without the extremes either way. In my view that means size 3s are more likely to be serviceable troops, and less likely to make the grade for thugging.
A lovely new entrant in the keyword series! Per my usual, I took notes and have a few comments:
The distinction between attack density and unit density is very relevant, and you're right that the downfall of the giants is in part due to their bad unit and attack density. Giants that break this mold tend to be significantly better, and for that matter, where are the dual-wielding giants? I don't think any exist, which is a bit too bad. The discoboloi get two pankration attacks, but that's stretching it. The part where you either weren't aware or skipped is that you lose 1 point of defense for each 10 fatigue you rack up, and 1 attack per 20 fatigue on top of becoming more vulnerable to armor-defeating attacks. This means that giants who aren't fatigue-neutral are even more susceptible to being worn down than humans, because of their bad unit and attack density density. Relying on stacking defense as a giant is probably not going to work.
As for size 3 units, these are generally called "ogre sized", because, well, ogres are size 3. Ogres are a bit of a mixed bag, because as you say, they're both the best and worst of both worlds. Enkidu are famous for being a bit shit as fighters, but Palankasha and Kala-Mukha are rather terrifying with a nice bless. Guhyakas also would be bloody horrific if they learned how to wear pants. Personally, I think the distinction between Enkidu and Dawn Guard is attack/defense skill. Dawn Guard are excellent units and fight humans efficiently, while Enkidu as a whole tend to be relatively unskilled and also often forget that wearing armor is a good idea. But they can't reliably hit things, which wastes their excellent strength.
Units of size 4+ get a bonus 1 length to any weapon they use, which makes repel memes a thing. I don't think you mentioned it, sorry if you did.
The plural of Jotun, in Icelandic at least, is Jotnar.
I really appreciated your talk on threat profiles, and I think it's about spot-on. The only thing I have to add, and I don't think I can quantify this, is that mid to lategame Dominions feels like a binary. When going up against Foul Vapors, you either have some kind of response or you get poisoned to death. When you're fighting under Wailing Winds or Dark Skies, you either have mindless/berserk troops or inspirational +6 leaders, and dragon helms on all your mages, or you run away. There are many *potential* responses to each situation, but you either have an answer or you get cheesed.
Agarthans are terrible, but their synergy with mind blasters or casts of Darkness is nice. Even an Agarthan can hit a paralyzed guy.
Again, this is hard to quantify, but I think that as a rule giant auxiliaries are better than a purely giant nation. EA Niefelheim has an awful troop lineup because they don't really have any human-sized units, while MA Jotunheim gets Vaettir and Vaetti Hags. LA Gath gets better-scaling sacreds than Hinnom, in part because their Levite Zealots are humans and recruitable anywhere. Having the option to use giants is good, but not having to account for their flaws is nice.
Your take on hot-swapping SC gear is quite accurate. My only comment is that this is a cousin to transitioning to a gem economy, in that you're still recruiting your SC chassis but gearing a true SC is probably at least 30 gems and could be as many as 70, depending on your anticipated threat profile and stage of the game. For that cost, you could cast hidden in foo and get an army and 1-3 mages.
As always, thank you very much for your videos! I hope to see many, many more.
39:22 "... When you introduce uncertainty, most people tend to respond with risk averse behaviour."
Nice observation.
I think true gung-ho risk takers are just rarer creatures, in life and in gaming. The research i've seen seems to back that up.
Dominions is also a long, high investment game, so people get really quite protective of their empires. If it takes you 2-3 weeks to build up a field army, are you really going to risk it all on a less than sure thing? You're probably going to play safe if you can. That may be a perfectly fine call, but if the other side gets to assume that you're 80% likely to play safe, then suddenly they are safe to pursue more aggressive tactics while being less worried about being pushed, and therein lies an advantage.
I think the most dangerous player is one that is capable of both frustrating caution and intimidating aggression, depending on what the situation calls for.
There is a reason the book Thinking Fast and Slow got so popular.
Around 20:28 .. Besides Ulmish axe warriors, barbarians and lizard warriors (with 2 handed weapons) are also good against giants.
Hey Perun, I just wanted to say thanks for these unit class breakdowns.
I love these playstyle breakdowns they. It's nice to hear a person who knows what they're talking about.
Also that historically accurate map seems awesome, where can I get it?
The map
steamcommunity.com/app/722060/discussions/1/1500126447384317361/
I've found that using thugs/SCs as part of armies is often a very good idea as it can make that army much harder to counter. If you manage to give them berserk and enough reinvigoration they won't rout either, and even if you lose they can cause a lot of damage before going down.
Loving your videos. The more content you create the better!
Nice , another youtuber besides lucid and gc who knows what he is doing. You earned yourself a subscriber!
I'm doing my best, I'm glad people are enjoying the content. If you (or anyone reading this) ever have specific requests, just let me know!
Some nation analysis are always appreciated - but i would also be interested in an assessment of the various global spells - its uses and how usefull each one is plus maybe some input which nations should go for which global (besides the obvious mother oak for strong nature nations - pangea). But to be honest - any dom 5 video i will watch ;)
Having only found Perun in 2022, I find the lack of PowerPoint in this video disturbing.
I guess any commentary I have on the subject from the outside would focus on the specifics of each nation so wouldn't really be applicable to this video. A brief explanation of what makes Hinnom's Melqarts worse than Berytos and why having air on a combatant is better than astral. Maybe a short section on the ability of certain nations and circumstances to mix size one and two units in to cut down on harassment? But to my knowledge that is exceedingly rare, so I don't know., that might be a function of a player's willingness to sort through their troops and script them to make that happen.
I am intrigued by the size three segment that seems to be in the works and would recommend that cavalry either get its own section either in the video or on its own. Thinking about it, cavalry probably needs its own video as well since they represent another threat profile with its own tactical and strategic considerations.
Around 33:30 .. EA Agartha is also a good example. Just try out ancient ones with an awake Fontain of Blood with dom 7 E4N7B9 (hardskin+regen+blood vengeance+1HP) with heat3, misfortune 2, drain 3. At Biddyn map, it's easy to get 27 territories by turn 12 against a single easy AI.
I somehow got unsubbed from this channel wow your growth is incredible and well deserved!
My main problem by playing giants - early in the game many of them kinda suck vs hard hitting humans, and later too much soul slays-like spells for even most magic resisted SC. Or even worse - blood spells, which cant be resisted at all. But strangely - i enjoy playing giants.
I request the map that you are using for this video
When i'm home I will get a link to it and post it in the description.
Thank you
@@PerunAU Thank you. Im also interested in the map :)
the name of the map is archaea, if you google archaea dom 5 the first hit has a link to the map
@@PerunAU Legit this map is amazing and I would love a link to it if possible!
Fomorian Goatfaces are the best giants.
Would it be fair to say that giants take buffs better than human-sized troops, and will remain relevant longer whe late game battlefield turns into an arty party?
Nice looking map btw
Subbed. Also, any plans for Dominions 5 Strategy - Humans?
That seems far too broad to be useful, given the number of nations where that is the default.
I think the best next topic would either be Ogres/other name for Size 3 entities, to act as a followup to this video, or Aquatic and Amphibious, to go over nations unified by water access, and in some cases, water starting positions.
@@88Factor All of these videos are broad. This one is almost an hour long. It would be very useful, humans are a common troop type and just because they are the standard doesn't mean they lack strengths and weaknesses compared to the non standard units. There are specific things you want to see in human troops. You don't want low damage weapons like spears because humans have bad strength, you need high protection or defense more than most because humans have only 10 hit points, and although everyone likes multiple attacks humans exploit them better than most because they are size 2. That's just troops and doesn't cover cavalry. There's all sorts of useful information on humans to talk about.
@@bread1958 Fair points.
Well, that, and presumably one could use a, relatively speaking, small number of examples to illustrate the point.
@@bread1958 ...I mean... if you want your troops to do the killing spears aren't great... but most human nations DON'T want their troops doing the killing...
How do you build your DIB as giants tho?
Good video.
Where do I get that map???
Link in the description
I just started playing... How do I make my map look that good!? 😫
If on steam, steam workshop has maps. Just subscribe and it should appear.
Otherwise I think the mods section in game let's you know how to download maps and there's several sites to download load them from.
I was thinking the same thing. There's a link to the map in the video description. Just download it and copy it to the map folder :)
Hinnomnomnom
size 3 units ain't giants imo
I use the term demi-giant here. I think others use the term ogres, but I get what you're saying, they are a mid point really, without the extremes either way. In my view that means size 3s are more likely to be serviceable troops, and less likely to make the grade for thugging.