Russian Guy and that juicy reduced culture convertions from russian ideas. after finishing religious you straight murder those horsemen on the east and replace them with proper rusians. be careful with the math although, sadly the discount is not as huge aa it looks. (i think it is 70% on paper but its actually 45%) you can look it up on the eu4wiki
Something worth noting that wasn't mentioned is that even if you take Deus Vult, you still ideally want claims on the land you take because claims reduce the cost to core a province, so if you don't have claims, you're paying more admin to core. Also Deus Vult only works to give you a CB on nations you border by land or a single sea province, so it's a lot more restricted than it may seem at first by the description.
if it just wouldn't have the navy ideas it would be better. but yeah, quantity > quality. yesterday i stackwiped frances 70K with my (prussia) 100K...so no need to take quality as prussia :D
When playing as a western nation, extra MIL is kinda often. Especially due to fact that you don't use MIL as much you use ADM and DIP, especially that ADM is used for inflation, stability, coring, etc., and dip for trade, unjustified demands, culture conversion, merchantilism, etc., while MIL is mostly spent on.... well, generals and war taxes (if you ever take those). Since I like to colonise alot and I don't need military ideas that much, I use extra MIL to develop provinces, which will come in handy in the 1.17 patch, since higher development helps technology spread faster.
extra mil is even more common with 1.17 thanks to unbalamced research boost corruption so there's less of an incentive to push your military tech. this may change in 1.18 with the institutions spread
You forgot a major aspect of Humanist ideas. They aren't only about preventing rebels, they are also a major way of getting by without having to convert your lands in any way (Religion or culture). Tolerance not only affects revolt risk. Tolerance has a severe effect on provincial income. If you are at 0 or higher in a province with an accepted culture, you don't get any penalty on your income from a province. And since Humanist ideas provide an effective elimination of tolerance penalties, they make EVERY province in your empire generate full income. Combined with the cultural acceptance this means that you get a massive powerbase very easily and you get to keep it as well since you don't lose accepted cultures as fast as you usually do and can easily use province development to keep cultures accepted for a long time. Humanist ideas allow for a very aggressive playstyle because of this and the relation improvement mostly eliminates your AE problems. So Humanist ideas are great for small countries with a small culture and/or religious group that need stability and income so they can continue to grow fast without being threatened by rebels, income shortages or coalitions. Most countries are however predisposed to one of the two because their national ideas already point in one direction and it's usually better to strengthen your strengths instead of weakening your weaknesses.
Konterfeit this is false. if you take humanist ideas you wont lose muc religious unity by conquering other religions, but you wont be able to get land from them again until you covert the rest. (if you dont want the nasty RU penalties)
you can obviously convert the low development provinces and ignore the high dev ones without any penalty. And you start in a certain religious area so at least some of the provinces are of your religion, keeping your RU effectively at 100% without conversion. oh and @KonPlayz - wtf u talking about? culture accepted + religious tolerance above 0 for the faith in question = full benefits
***** its obviously good for that, but eventually it wont work until those high development provinces convert: but religious unity is not about provinces, its about development after all. also, i had many games with tolerance of heretics and pagans +3, but the fact its capped at 3 makes it not that good. if you are good a converting, its totally worth it to deal with the unrest of ''active missionary'' for a year and a half just so you can get that beatiful ''true faith tolerance''. i think humanist is the best idea group, but even being so strong, sometimes religious is more convenient.
The point is that you get free RU which means you don't need to convert things that are hard to convert as long as there are things that are easy to convert or you have enough depth already which should be easy af when you're playing wide, even when you expand into different religions only. 3 provinces with 6 development have the same amount as 1 province with 18. And there's A LOT more shit provinces on the map than high development ones. Obviously the AI now playing tall as fuck already nerfed humanist ideas by a fair amount, but it's still true. States and the new culture mechanic nerfed it quite a bit as well imo. And you might want to read my initial comment again. I never said that there is no situation where religious is better. (Byzantium screams for religious ideas. Ottomans are more predisposed to humanist (and used to be even more so ... unless you wanna go unify islam, but that's a different story).) I said that he forgot an important aspect of humanist ideas in his video.
That would be great! Also advice on whether to buy the DLCs or a comparison of National Ideas would be nice.. I guess he won´t run out of EU4-topics too soon :)
Not that complicated; You just send merchants to nodes to transfer TP (trade power) to your home trade node. You enter the trade map mode to see in which way the trade will be transfered. If a node sends trade to two (or more) different nodes, than trade will be sent to the node where you have a merchant or more TP. If you have provinces that are trade nodes and in big trade regions (or plan on taking some), than you should invest in Merchantilism, while if not, than you are good to embrace free trade through events. Ain't really complicated, you just need some expirience and reading. If you wanna further understand how trade works, than Castille, Portugal, and Malacca are good nations to roll. No merchant republics, because they make it more complex with trade posts and trade leagues...
Johnathan Gordon it took me a long time to understand it. i suggest you play as portugal and take a look at the modifiers on the trade tab while you play. you will then understand where the power comes from, how can get power from nodes you have no provinces on, and what merchants really do.
hey. good job with the video. i really like hearing how other seasoned eu4 players think about ideas and other game mechanics. i watched almost all of ur vids, and i think its better to keep those as short as possible. keep it up!
If you convert to Victoria 2 Humanist ideas screws you over since the Main Culture group generates the most literacy, which if you have lots of unaccepted culture will make you have on average 20 or lower % literacy and unaccepted cultures promote much more rebellions in Victoria 2 so Humanist is good for Eu4 Expansion, but religious is good for Victoria 2 conversion saves. :)
You didn't give all drawbacks of negative tolerance. It also reduces goods produced modifier and 1.5 unrest per tolerance. And also positive tolerance gives Religious unity.
sometimes it is better to have both at once and maxed out so you have the best of both worlds so you can be prepaired for anything especially with the quality and quanity idea groups have them both together and your army and navy will be fully prepaired for what ever conflict awates.
Joseph Pradhana I'd say religious is pretty good for Byzantium, having conversion strength as you mentioned, as well as tolerance of the true faith in their ideas. Plus they start surrounded by Catholic and Sunni nations
Fabricating claims reduces the admin cost to core new provinces and reduces autonomy as much as 8 years of peace. It is still worth doing for anybody short of, say, Coptic Ottomans with Administrative ideas.
You might need to do an update on this when 1.18 (Rights of Man) goes live in a couple weeks. Big patches always seem to mess with a few of the idea groups.
Something weird happens with the Ottomans as well. Last playthrough i saw Ottomans declare on Moldavia with 10k troops against Ottomans 100+ and the Ottmans lost because they didnt want to cross the strait... So Moldavia was able to get like 50 warscore, taking like 3 or 4 provinces and war reps...
Having the state religion and state culture in provinces increases the production/tax etc income iirc. So e.g. a country which converts and change cultures will make more use/profit of conquered provinces?
You forgot to say that provinces with accepted culture are easier convert. I even think when you have tolerance of heretics/ heathens, they lose the "intolerance" negative modifier when converting. That means that humanist indirectly eases converting.
Is it ever worth it to take both? I'm thinking of starting an Austria campaign soon and I think it'd be worth to take Humanist for the unrest and lower idea cost, but the ability to Deus Vult into the Ottomans is just too good to pass up.
Usually I take in calculation the country's own national ideas to stack them, like russians have the reduced culture convertion cost so you can stack that with the religoious ideas to get super cheap culture conversion
With Rights of Man, also consider that any player outside of Europe is likely to be dumping 3000 monarch points into development every 50 years to spawn institutions. That 20% development cost reduction at the end of Economic could save you thousands of monarch points by the end of the game.
A few comments: 1. Intolerance give more than one unrest per point. 2. Reducing AE is more AE-efficient than BROT/improved relations, so deus vult is superior to the BROT thing in humanist 3. Tolerance of 0 or more contributes to religious unity, up to 100% at +3 tolerance of heretic/heathens. Humanist is much better on religions like Fetish (100% unity even if you have no true faith provinces at all) than it is on ez converters like Byzantium. 4. DIP savings from deus vult should trivially outperform idea cost reduction, even on Sunni or Catholic, though the reformation is a pain w/o humanist as Catholic when you're near it. 5. Religious has stronger military policies (15% morale and siege ability now, used to be 20% morale). Humanist generally suffers in that you're stuck paying DIP through the nose often, and gain more AE unless conquering same-religion. If you try to core directly, you're still stuck paying ADM + trying to actually complete humanist. As such the deus vult = influence to annex scales much better in normal SP playthroughs early on.
I would like to see a "play tall" campaign from you where you start out as any German prince and has to convert both culture and religion before taking any new land
Humanism, Quantity, and trade ideas have always been my favorite idea groups. Humanism = no rebels. Quantity = tons of troops and trade ideas give you a ton of money to pay for those troops. Something else to consider about trade ideas is you are taking away money that other countries would be making instead.
Im in a run with lucca to get an achievment , and i took religous because i will likley be expanding into north africa instead of italy , because everyone is either allied to venice , aragon , savoy , or austria...
I got questions related to religious. When should you culture convert and where should you do it? At once province development level is it worth converting or not worth converting? What about trade goods in the province you are culture converting and their price?
Culture conversion is usually only worth it if you have spare diplo points, since you're essentially re-coring the province. Doing this is large provinces like Constantinople can be quite effective, though.
Just one Question: If i want to expand alot as muscovy early game and i'm going for world conquest, which of the ideas should i take? I've tried both and in one case i'll have a 3% chance of rebels for each province every 10 years but i can choose if they rise up or i raise autonomy and in the other ill have to take less land but i can convert it easily and if i take more land i get alot more rebels. My main problem is usually taking catholic land tho and i really hate expanding into lithuania because of how strong they usually are. Unlike in my own games the AI never eats lithuania so when they either break free from poland or when the commonwealth is formed i can't do crap against them. PS: i noticed in your quantity vs quality video that you said you prefer quantity. So do i but recently i've been liking offensive more for the 2nd idea because of the dicipline and land leader bonuses. I find it alot better to lose less men and have less men to pay for as the regiment cost only goes down by 10% from quantity. So unless i take war rep from alot of nations then its almost always better for me to take offensive. Just my 2 cents
InTenZeGamingHD I find that religious works really well with orthodox nations to get extremely high tolerance of the true faith, along with your patriarch authority. For Muscovy the casus belli you get is also really strong since you will end up bordering nations which almost exclusively have a different religion than you. All that being said, humanist is a really good idea group and can work well for any nation
One of the keys for going really wide with Religious ideas, in my experience, is to conquer some holy cities so that you can convert stuff as fast as you conquer it. If you are having so much trouble with Catholics, you might consider simply converting and trying to become emperor. The reduced coring cost and time would be pretty good for world conquest. Also, I think that Russia might be an exception to the general argument of quantity vs quality because they have multiple national manpower ideas already.
I took religious ideas as Maya, and while that may seem like a bad idea to take because you are isolated in the americas for a long time I took it for the long term effect of having a constant CB against all of Europe, Africa, and Asia.
Another angle you forgot to mention when considering to take humanist vs. religious ideas is to look at your own nation's ideas. Russia/Muscovy for example should get religious over humanist not just because they are next to many non-orthodox neighbors, but because they already get a reduction to culture conversion costs in their own NI's, which in turn stacks with the culture cost reduction of religious ideas. Because of this, Russia is a strong nation to attempt a one-tag WC with every province being Russian/Orthodox. The Ottomans are an interesting case in that they are great with either idea group; cultural ties + millets + silk trade + enlightened despotism make the culture acceptance threshold at least -85%. You can take the aristocratic + diplomatic policy for an additional -10%, though whether or not to ever get aristocratic ideas is debatable. On the other hand, religious ideas makes them have an easy time achieving the decision to unify Islam, and they're surrounded by non-Sunni neighbors. However, they are changing the way how culture acceptance works in Rights of Man, so expect this post to be obsolete by next week.
Since I only played EU4 for 240 hours, I guess I´m still a noob^^ However I wonder whether buying the DLCs is worth it, also I wouldn´t be able to decide which ones to buy. I fear they give the player too many options and therefor make the game easier, especially the national focus would be a (maybe too) huge benefit. I enjoyed this video a lot, hopefully you stay that active on TH-cam!
Had the same Dilemma as well but I would recommend buying if you love the game. If you do love the game then buy ART of War, Common Sense and then decide from there what you may interest you. ART of War and common sense are musts if you want to have a more decent experience than before.
Art of War is very, very helpful. Transferring province occupation to vassals is very helpful so you don't get as much aggressive expansion. War Reps are nice too.
yes the DLC gives you more Option and thus you can exploit These mechanics. But each of the DLC came together with a release patch that made the original game harder without it so I wouldn't worry about being gamey too much. Buy them if you like the mechanics they bring individually. If not, then leave them be. =D
I'm playing with Russia, and with modern mechanics missions I didn't need religious ideas as I conquer part of a required Region I got bonnuses within a such regions to convert, besides with a Inquisitor and Imposing religious unity is enough.
As Sweden(Lion of the North, Sweden is not OP) I took quality for the bonus +10% inf ca ontop of the already 20%(And later the +5% Discipline ontop of swedish ideas) and Religious as second to quickly convert
Rookie (!) %20 inf. combat ability from National ideas + %10 from Quality + %20 from Modern Firearms(İnovative +Quality). %5 dicipline from National ideas and %5 dicipline from Quality. So you can have %50 inf. Combat ability and %110 dicipline with just 2 ideas. You can do it with Prussia/Brandenburg too. Plus bonuses for ships and %10 cav.
Isn't religious also a good idea group on Austria or any country trying to be emperor, since you can stomp out reform to get that sweet sweet imperial influence?
Good guide but I think you kinda skipped over the part about national ideas and synergy. If your country already gets things like papal influence, culture conversion cost discount, tolerance of the true faith etc. (Jerusalem, Byzantium etc) Religious goes very well with that country. Of course Humanist would also be nice but I prefer Religious for countries with those types of national ideas. The same goes the other way.. Some countries have national ideas with tolerance of heretics, - unrest, religious unity etc. and then I think Humanist offers a better synergy.
Recent patch made it so you can't convert provinces that are not in your states :(. So humanist is a must have now, otherwise rebels will keep spawning in non true faith provinces due to intolerance and on top of that the lack of religious unity.
darkfireslide On the plusside you can get 1 free policy of each type so things like Humanist + Offensive (years of seperatism -5 & national unrest -1) and Humanist + Influence (diplo relations and diplo reputation +1) are some great policies throughout the game. The game is still playable, but the real choices are limited. For blobbing (which I do nearly every game) I always take: Humanist, Influence, Admin, offensive, defensive, quanity and quality (sometimes aristo/plut instead of either quality and quantity). Leaving me with only 1 other idea from either admin or diplo ideas. And the choice is somewhat limited for that one after you ask yourself some questions (for me also in this order): Do I want to colonize? -> exploration Do I need more eco? -> trade (maritime if you can get the national decision for +1 merchant) Do peacedeals limit my expansion -> diplomatic Am I short on diplo because of all the anexing -> no ideagroup
Religious is also very powerful for Poland and the Commonwealth. Because you are stuck between the HRE, where you can't really expand and Russia who wants your Ukrainian and Belorussian provinces, the way a starving man wants food. And your only option of expansion is into Russia, which is Orthodox. And Orthodox provinces are a pain to convert without the 'heretic' bonus.
Religious gives you Deus Vult against virtually every neighbor you have, and by converting provinces to your religion you will have fewer issues with rebels once provinces get converted
hmm... that sounds useful as russia, but i've been following the missions and they give you claims on enemy provinces too by the way kazan made a stronk alliance with the timurids and crimea so i can't conquer them easily, what do?
+PylonBuffering be patient and either expand into Sweden or wait til Kazan is weak or until the Timurids would refuse a call to arms. Think of getting your own allies as well. The Livonian Order is a good target as well.
Humanist only for that -2 unrest, -10 separatism and policy with Offensive (-5 years of separatism, -1 unrest OMG)..Oh and that AE heal is useful in Europe. Otherwise preferring Religious strongly..
Ok....I think I broke the Dark-Slide code....If you say something smart....He will haha you.....Something funny= hahaha.....Something funny and smart= A word or sentence and hahaha....If you say something stupid/ obvious/ easy he will only say 1 sentence.....A good question.....A SH`T LONG-ASS COMMENT......Ok......I think I got it XD
I think you should always take both unless this 2 situations happen: 1) You are a crap tier religion horde, you don't take rel. You already have great CB, and you have no hope of converting anything, cause you get no conversion bonuses. 2) You are in HRE, stay catholic and have no desire to go beyond Europe, you don't take rel. I rarely see reformation to really great. Even if it does, I still find claims to be good enough for small HRE nations.
There are like 1 or 2 Jewish provinces in the game at the start in 1444, and while no nation actually follows the religion, it is possible to get a Jewish rebellion and convert.
I can sum this up in 3 sentences: Religious for when you want free CB and more hostile expansion or start in a religious melting pot (and in PVP). Humanist, _never_.
I know humanist is better 90% of the time but I just don't want to tolerate people that don't share my beliefs.
Well, I guess with Religious you can get that lowered culture conversion cost.
Is that a DDRJake reference?
Not intentionally. Haha
+darkfireslide I meant the other guy and not accepting others
Oh haha
Me as Russia: 2, 4, 6, 8, who do we exterminate? Heathens, Heathens, Heathens!
*takes religious*
Russian Guy and that juicy reduced culture convertions from russian ideas. after finishing religious you straight murder those horsemen on the east and replace them with proper rusians.
be careful with the math although, sadly the discount is not as huge aa it looks. (i think it is 70% on paper but its actually 45%) you can look it up on the eu4wiki
Something worth noting that wasn't mentioned is that even if you take Deus Vult, you still ideally want claims on the land you take because claims reduce the cost to core a province, so if you don't have claims, you're paying more admin to core.
Also Deus Vult only works to give you a CB on nations you border by land or a single sea province, so it's a lot more restricted than it may seem at first by the description.
TyrannisUmbra hmm, makes the cb quite a bit worse...those juicy admin points, hmm
you took quality ideas? HERESY! :D
I took it because I was testing, actually. I prefer Quantity. Haha
if it just wouldn't have the navy ideas it would be better. but yeah, quantity > quality. yesterday i stackwiped frances 70K with my (prussia) 100K...so no need to take quality as prussia :D
Basically. Hahaha
prussia is already strong so its almost irrelevant saying what ideas you take as prussia
Dookie9669 i didn't know that, thank you very much
I think we definitely need Naval vs Maritime ideas ;)
thats pretty simple, take maritime. If you're that desperate for ship buffs than take quality. Maritime also unlocks more decisions etc.
Maritime is the better one.. But naval is nice because it's military points... (I always have too many)
HOW!?You can never have too many mil points.
When playing as a western nation, extra MIL is kinda often.
Especially due to fact that you don't use MIL as much you use ADM and DIP, especially that ADM is used for inflation, stability, coring, etc., and dip for trade, unjustified demands, culture conversion, merchantilism, etc., while MIL is mostly spent on.... well, generals and war taxes (if you ever take those).
Since I like to colonise alot and I don't need military ideas that much, I use extra MIL to develop provinces, which will come in handy in the 1.17 patch, since higher development helps technology spread faster.
extra mil is even more common with 1.17 thanks to unbalamced research boost corruption so there's less of an incentive to push your military tech. this may change in 1.18 with the institutions spread
you forgot to mention that almost every disaster cannot happen if you have the humanist ideas
You forgot a major aspect of Humanist ideas. They aren't only about preventing rebels, they are also a major way of getting by without having to convert your lands in any way (Religion or culture). Tolerance not only affects revolt risk. Tolerance has a severe effect on provincial income. If you are at 0 or higher in a province with an accepted culture, you don't get any penalty on your income from a province. And since Humanist ideas provide an effective elimination of tolerance penalties, they make EVERY province in your empire generate full income. Combined with the cultural acceptance this means that you get a massive powerbase very easily and you get to keep it as well since you don't lose accepted cultures as fast as you usually do and can easily use province development to keep cultures accepted for a long time. Humanist ideas allow for a very aggressive playstyle because of this and the relation improvement mostly eliminates your AE problems. So Humanist ideas are great for small countries with a small culture and/or religious group that need stability and income so they can continue to grow fast without being threatened by rebels, income shortages or coalitions. Most countries are however predisposed to one of the two because their national ideas already point in one direction and it's usually better to strengthen your strengths instead of weakening your weaknesses.
Konterfeit All those points spent, to not get the full benefit of a province.
Konterfeit this is false.
if you take humanist ideas you wont lose muc religious unity by conquering other religions, but you wont be able to get land from them again until you covert the rest. (if you dont want the nasty RU penalties)
you can obviously convert the low development provinces and ignore the high dev ones without any penalty. And you start in a certain religious area so at least some of the provinces are of your religion, keeping your RU effectively at 100% without conversion.
oh and @KonPlayz - wtf u talking about? culture accepted + religious tolerance above 0 for the faith in question = full benefits
*****
its obviously good for that, but eventually it wont work until those high development provinces convert: but religious unity is not about provinces, its about development after all.
also, i had many games with tolerance of heretics and pagans +3, but the fact its capped at 3 makes it not that good.
if you are good a converting, its totally worth it to deal with the unrest of ''active missionary'' for a year and a half just so you can get that beatiful ''true faith tolerance''.
i think humanist is the best idea group, but even being so strong, sometimes religious is more convenient.
The point is that you get free RU which means you don't need to convert
things that are hard to convert as long as there are things that are
easy to convert or you have enough depth already which should be easy af
when you're playing wide, even when you expand into different religions
only. 3 provinces with 6 development have the same amount as 1 province
with 18. And there's A LOT more shit provinces on the map than high
development ones. Obviously the AI now playing tall as fuck already
nerfed humanist ideas by a fair amount, but it's still true. States and
the new culture mechanic nerfed it quite a bit as well imo. And you
might want to read my initial comment again. I never said that there is
no situation where religious is better. (Byzantium screams for religious
ideas. Ottomans are more predisposed to humanist (and used to be even
more so ... unless you wanna go unify islam, but that's a different
story).) I said that he forgot an important aspect of humanist ideas in
his video.
Maybe go over the game's trade mechanic.
That would be great! Also advice on whether to buy the DLCs or a comparison of National Ideas would be nice.. I guess he won´t run out of EU4-topics too soon :)
Not that complicated; You just send merchants to nodes to transfer TP (trade power) to your home trade node. You enter the trade map mode to see in which way the trade will be transfered. If a node sends trade to two (or more) different
nodes, than trade will be sent to the node where you have a merchant or more TP.
If you have provinces that are trade nodes and in big trade regions (or plan on taking some), than you should invest in Merchantilism, while if not, than you are good to embrace free trade through events.
Ain't really complicated, you just need some expirience and reading.
If you wanna further understand how trade works, than Castille, Portugal, and Malacca are good nations to roll. No merchant republics, because they make it more complex with trade posts and trade leagues...
Also placing merchants downstream the tradenode tranfering trade upstream to your homenode will increase the income of your trade significantly.
Johnathan Gordon it took me a long time to understand it. i suggest you play as portugal and take a look at the modifiers on the trade tab while you play.
you will then understand where the power comes from, how can get power from nodes you have no provinces on, and what merchants really do.
Well I'm playing Ethiopia so Deus Vult it is.
An updated version of this would be super nice :D
Great breakdown! I'm loving these vids!
hey. good job with the video. i really like hearing how other seasoned eu4 players think about ideas and other game mechanics. i watched almost all of ur vids, and i think its better to keep those as short as possible. keep it up!
Noticed you didn't cover is pop-up events related to taking the idea groups discussed here, they can be pretty interesting too ;)
Dang how'd you grow the Knights that big
If you convert to Victoria 2 Humanist ideas screws you over since the Main Culture group generates the most literacy, which if you have lots of unaccepted culture will make you have on average 20 or lower % literacy and unaccepted cultures promote much more rebellions in Victoria 2 so Humanist is good for Eu4 Expansion, but religious is good for Victoria 2 conversion saves. :)
You didn't give all drawbacks of negative tolerance. It also reduces goods produced modifier and 1.5 unrest per tolerance. And also positive tolerance gives Religious unity.
Positive Tolerance also increases goods produced.
I'd say that your ideas are also a pretty big deciding factor in whitch idea you should take.
I almost always go for religious, tend to choose countries on a border between religions
sometimes it is better to have both at once and maxed out so you have the best of both worlds so you can be prepaired for anything especially with the quality and quanity idea groups have them both together and your army and navy will be fully prepaired for what ever conflict awates.
I always lower the autonomy when I capture a new province. It takes ages for it to go down but I don't deal with rebellions. Much.
HAHA. I look at my list. Humanist vs Religious posted 7 minutes ago? I think my suggestion got through! ^,^ nice vid btw.
so, what's the best idea of those two for Byzantium
it got +3 missionaries strength idea
Joseph Pradhana I'd say religious is pretty good for Byzantium, having conversion strength as you mentioned, as well as tolerance of the true faith in their ideas. Plus they start surrounded by Catholic and Sunni nations
Playing Byz right now. Took religious and I don't even both fabricating claims anymore. Oh, my manpower has recovered from a war? Deus Vult everyone!
Fabricating claims reduces the admin cost to core new provinces and reduces autonomy as much as 8 years of peace. It is still worth doing for anybody short of, say, Coptic Ottomans with Administrative ideas.
You might need to do an update on this when 1.18 (Rights of Man) goes live in a couple weeks. Big patches always seem to mess with a few of the idea groups.
Something weird happens with the Ottomans as well. Last playthrough i saw Ottomans declare on Moldavia with 10k troops against Ottomans 100+ and the Ottmans lost because they didnt want to cross the strait... So Moldavia was able to get like 50 warscore, taking like 3 or 4 provinces and war reps...
he didnt talk about the fact that you're going to be able to promote cultures when the update comes out.
Having the state religion and state culture in provinces increases the production/tax etc income iirc. So e.g. a country which converts and change cultures will make more use/profit of conquered provinces?
You forgot to say that provinces with accepted culture are easier convert. I even think when you have tolerance of heretics/ heathens, they lose the "intolerance" negative modifier when converting. That means that humanist indirectly eases converting.
A video on plutocratic ideas for merchant republics?
Does "better relations over time" do anything besides lower aggresive expansion faster? Does it make a country become friendly more quickly?
TH-cam Channel No.1 Kind of, it maked Agressive expansion go away quicker, which improves relations.
Is it ever worth it to take both?
I'm thinking of starting an Austria campaign soon and I think it'd be worth to take Humanist for the unrest and lower idea cost, but the ability to Deus Vult into the Ottomans is just too good to pass up.
Usually I take in calculation the country's own national ideas to stack them, like russians have the reduced culture convertion cost so you can stack that with the religoious ideas to get super cheap culture conversion
Excelent video as usual :) .Keep it up man!
What about Economy and Trade Ideas, Darkfireslide?
why i shouldn't take economics and trade ideas? And btw is manufactures worth bulding?
Manufactories are generally worth it. if you have a good trade node, take Trade, and if you just want more money, take Economic.
Thanks!
With Rights of Man, also consider that any player outside of Europe is likely to be dumping 3000 monarch points into development every 50 years to spawn institutions. That 20% development cost reduction at the end of Economic could save you thousands of monarch points by the end of the game.
Also consider that, if you plan on spending a large fraction of the game at war, Economic ideas will allow your autonomy to continue ticking down.
A few comments:
1. Intolerance give more than one unrest per point.
2. Reducing AE is more AE-efficient than BROT/improved relations, so deus vult is superior to the BROT thing in humanist
3. Tolerance of 0 or more contributes to religious unity, up to 100% at +3 tolerance of heretic/heathens. Humanist is much better on religions like Fetish (100% unity even if you have no true faith provinces at all) than it is on ez converters like Byzantium.
4. DIP savings from deus vult should trivially outperform idea cost reduction, even on Sunni or Catholic, though the reformation is a pain w/o humanist as Catholic when you're near it.
5. Religious has stronger military policies (15% morale and siege ability now, used to be 20% morale).
Humanist generally suffers in that you're stuck paying DIP through the nose often, and gain more AE unless conquering same-religion. If you try to core directly, you're still stuck paying ADM + trying to actually complete humanist. As such the deus vult = influence to annex scales much better in normal SP playthroughs early on.
I would like to see a "play tall" campaign from you where you start out as any German prince and has to convert both culture and religion before taking any new land
Humanism, Quantity, and trade ideas have always been my favorite idea groups. Humanism = no rebels. Quantity = tons of troops and trade ideas give you a ton of money to pay for those troops. Something else to consider about trade ideas is you are taking away money that other countries would be making instead.
Im in a run with lucca to get an achievment , and i took religous because i will likley be expanding into north africa instead of italy , because everyone is either allied to venice , aragon , savoy , or austria...
I got questions related to religious. When should you culture convert and where should you do it? At once province development level is it worth converting or not worth converting? What about trade goods in the province you are culture converting and their price?
Culture conversion is usually only worth it if you have spare diplo points, since you're essentially re-coring the province. Doing this is large provinces like Constantinople can be quite effective, though.
Religious Ideas are amazing as Oman due to being the ONLY Ibadi in the game
Graybat12 there is mzab in algeria
Just one Question: If i want to expand alot as muscovy early game and i'm going for world conquest, which of the ideas should i take? I've tried both and in one case i'll have a 3% chance of rebels for each province every 10 years but i can choose if they rise up or i raise autonomy and in the other ill have to take less land but i can convert it easily and if i take more land i get alot more rebels. My main problem is usually taking catholic land tho and i really hate expanding into lithuania because of how strong they usually are. Unlike in my own games the AI never eats lithuania so when they either break free from poland or when the commonwealth is formed i can't do crap against them.
PS: i noticed in your quantity vs quality video that you said you prefer quantity. So do i but recently i've been liking offensive more for the 2nd idea because of the dicipline and land leader bonuses. I find it alot better to lose less men and have less men to pay for as the regiment cost only goes down by 10% from quantity. So unless i take war rep from alot of nations then its almost always better for me to take offensive.
Just my 2 cents
InTenZeGamingHD I find that religious works really well with orthodox nations to get extremely high tolerance of the true faith, along with your patriarch authority. For Muscovy the casus belli you get is also really strong since you will end up bordering nations which almost exclusively have a different religion than you. All that being said, humanist is a really good idea group and can work well for any nation
One of the keys for going really wide with Religious ideas, in my experience, is to conquer some holy cities so that you can convert stuff as fast as you conquer it.
If you are having so much trouble with Catholics, you might consider simply converting and trying to become emperor. The reduced coring cost and time would be pretty good for world conquest.
Also, I think that Russia might be an exception to the general argument of quantity vs quality because they have multiple national manpower ideas already.
I took religious ideas as Maya, and while that may seem like a bad idea to take because you are isolated in the americas for a long time I took it for the long term effect of having a constant CB against all of Europe, Africa, and Asia.
Although in retrospect it was actually a bad idea I think since I was able to rely on imperialism by that time.
Another angle you forgot to mention when considering to take humanist vs. religious ideas is to look at your own nation's ideas. Russia/Muscovy for example should get religious over humanist not just because they are next to many non-orthodox neighbors, but because they already get a reduction to culture conversion costs in their own NI's, which in turn stacks with the culture cost reduction of religious ideas. Because of this, Russia is a strong nation to attempt a one-tag WC with every province being Russian/Orthodox.
The Ottomans are an interesting case in that they are great with either idea group; cultural ties + millets + silk trade + enlightened despotism make the culture acceptance threshold at least -85%. You can take the aristocratic + diplomatic policy for an additional -10%, though whether or not to ever get aristocratic ideas is debatable. On the other hand, religious ideas makes them have an easy time achieving the decision to unify Islam, and they're surrounded by non-Sunni neighbors.
However, they are changing the way how culture acceptance works in Rights of Man, so expect this post to be obsolete by next week.
um how did you get Jerusalem going?
I think Cyprus can form Jerusalem and so can The Knights of the Hospital of Saint John.
Fighting Austria as Jerusalem must be annoying
What do people mean by "playing tall?"
It means having a smaller number of bigger provinces that you dump points into rather than tons of smaller provinces
darkfireslide Oh ok thanks
Playing tall translates roughly to "Pretending EU4 is an entirely different game."
Since I only played EU4 for 240 hours, I guess I´m still a noob^^
However I wonder whether buying the DLCs is worth it, also I wouldn´t be able to decide which ones to buy. I fear they give the player too many options and therefor make the game easier, especially the national focus would be a (maybe too) huge benefit.
I enjoyed this video a lot, hopefully you stay that active on TH-cam!
Had the same Dilemma as well but I would recommend buying if you love the game. If you do love the game then buy ART of War, Common Sense and then decide from there what you may interest you. ART of War and common sense are musts if you want to have a more decent experience than before.
Noah Kaminsky thanks for your advice, I´ll definitely get Common Sense at the next Steam Sale, however I´m not sure about Art of War.
Art of War is a literal must
Art of War is very, very helpful. Transferring province occupation to vassals is very helpful so you don't get as much aggressive expansion. War Reps are nice too.
yes the DLC gives you more Option and thus you can exploit These mechanics. But each of the DLC came together with a release patch that made the original game harder without it so I wouldn't worry about being gamey too much. Buy them if you like the mechanics they bring individually. If not, then leave them be. =D
What do you think about patriarch authority? Is it worth going to 100%?
It will be after the next patch, which gets rid of the tax penalty.
I'm playing with Russia, and with modern mechanics missions I didn't need religious ideas as I conquer part of a required Region I got bonnuses within a such regions to convert, besides with a Inquisitor and Imposing religious unity is enough.
is there any weight to humanist and religous?
As Sweden(Lion of the North, Sweden is not OP) I took quality for the bonus +10% inf ca ontop of the already 20%(And later the +5% Discipline ontop of swedish ideas) and Religious as second to quickly convert
Rookie (!) %20 inf. combat ability from National ideas + %10 from Quality + %20 from Modern Firearms(İnovative +Quality). %5 dicipline from National ideas and %5 dicipline from Quality. So you can have %50 inf. Combat ability and %110 dicipline with just 2 ideas. You can do it with Prussia/Brandenburg too. Plus bonuses for ships and %10 cav.
I was talking early game, like less than 100 years in, later in the game, even in very hard you just snowball
Isn't religious also a good idea group on Austria or any country trying to be emperor, since you can stomp out reform to get that sweet sweet imperial influence?
Sure, though Christian religions aren't that hard to convert (though converting a center of reformation is nice).
darkfireslide Ok, thank you!
How did the knights eat ottomans?
Good analysis
The static in the background it a bit annoying, but still good video
Good guide but I think you kinda skipped over the part about national ideas and synergy. If your country already gets things like papal influence, culture conversion cost discount, tolerance of the true faith etc. (Jerusalem, Byzantium etc) Religious goes very well with that country. Of course Humanist would also be nice but I prefer Religious for countries with those types of national ideas.
The same goes the other way.. Some countries have national ideas with tolerance of heretics, - unrest, religious unity etc. and then I think Humanist offers a better synergy.
Anyone else get that urge to change a provinces culture even though though it's accepted in your nation?
i know right???
Recent patch made it so you can't convert provinces that are not in your states :(. So humanist is a must have now, otherwise rebels will keep spawning in non true faith provinces due to intolerance and on top of that the lack of religious unity.
What have they done to my game? :(
darkfireslide On the plusside you can get 1 free policy of each type so things like Humanist + Offensive (years of seperatism -5 & national unrest -1) and Humanist + Influence (diplo relations and diplo reputation +1) are some great policies throughout the game.
The game is still playable, but the real choices are limited. For blobbing (which I do nearly every game) I always take: Humanist, Influence, Admin, offensive, defensive, quanity and quality (sometimes aristo/plut instead of either quality and quantity). Leaving me with only 1 other idea from either admin or diplo ideas.
And the choice is somewhat limited for that one after you ask yourself some questions (for me also in this order):
Do I want to colonize? -> exploration
Do I need more eco? -> trade (maritime if you can get the national decision for +1 merchant)
Do peacedeals limit my expansion -> diplomatic
Am I short on diplo because of all the anexing -> no ideagroup
Doesn't taking Humanist Ideas also prevent Religious Turmoil, while Religious Ideas make it far more likely to happen?
Religious is also very powerful for Poland and the Commonwealth. Because you are stuck between the HRE, where you can't really expand and Russia who wants your Ukrainian and Belorussian provinces, the way a starving man wants food. And your only option of expansion is into Russia, which is Orthodox. And Orthodox provinces are a pain to convert without the 'heretic' bonus.
which one is better for muscovy? i am playing a vanilla game btw
Religious for Muscovy.
darkfireslide
why shouldn't i take humanist first, seeing as i get rebels regularly
Religious gives you Deus Vult against virtually every neighbor you have, and by converting provinces to your religion you will have fewer issues with rebels once provinces get converted
hmm... that sounds useful as russia, but i've been following the missions and they give you claims on enemy provinces too
by the way kazan made a stronk alliance with the timurids and crimea so i can't conquer them easily, what do?
+PylonBuffering be patient and either expand into Sweden or wait til Kazan is weak or until the Timurids would refuse a call to arms. Think of getting your own allies as well. The Livonian Order is a good target as well.
Wow Thanks a lot, i legenda so many Things from your vids
Learn*
Thanks.
You sound so much like Jauffre from Oblivion omg this is crazy
Umm...not realy?
Humanist only for that -2 unrest, -10 separatism and policy with Offensive (-5 years of separatism, -1 unrest OMG)..Oh and that AE heal is useful in Europe. Otherwise preferring Religious strongly..
Video is 3 months old, already outdated info on Cultures.
Humanist if you play in Germany, France, Italy, Scandinavia, Spain et cetera and religious everywhere else.
Spain?
Sure, you could fight the Muslim nations in Africa, but as far as I know they're quite strong.
Blank for Muslims humanist is probably better starting in Arabia or the steppes, where there are heaps of Sunni nations
Oh yeah, I forgot them..
Blank Humanism for Spain? No way.
Ok....I think I broke the Dark-Slide code....If you say something smart....He will haha you.....Something funny= hahaha.....Something funny and smart= A word or sentence and hahaha....If you say something stupid/ obvious/ easy he will only say 1 sentence.....A good question.....A SH`T LONG-ASS COMMENT......Ok......I think I got it XD
Hehehe... you know too much. The Inquisition is on its way!
Wait.....You hehehe`d me.....Oh...Meh God.....I don`t know what that means.....Gulp......ʘ‿ʘ
I think you should always take both unless this 2 situations happen:
1) You are a crap tier religion horde, you don't take rel. You already have great CB, and you have no hope of converting anything, cause you get no conversion bonuses.
2) You are in HRE, stay catholic and have no desire to go beyond Europe, you don't take rel. I rarely see reformation to really great. Even if it does, I still find claims to be good enough for small HRE nations.
Great vid, but definitely outdated since the culture threshold has been revamped.
if you play eu4 x10 quality becomes absolutely stupid xD
Religious is better 100% of the time to avoid religious border gore
7:10
I am playing Russia and I took both
Dear Lord Austria...
Hellz yeah!
Being a humanist means you can conquer and kill people more efficiently. Who would have thought? ;)
*laughs in Chanakya*
I strongly prefer Religious.
what about the Jews? why arent they a religion in the game?
There are like 1 or 2 Jewish provinces in the game at the start in 1444, and while no nation actually follows the religion, it is possible to get a Jewish rebellion and convert.
Jewish rebellion - sounds like a bad, anti-semitic joke.
lol paradox math
I can sum this up in 3 sentences:
Religious for when you want free CB and more hostile expansion or start in a religious melting pot (and in PVP).
Humanist, _never_.
why you no like humanist???
the agressive expansion with the muslim countries must be yuuge if you did all that by 1650.
antl bvc XD yuuuuuuuge wipe!!!!
Having AE with conquered states isn't much of a problem :D
easy choice humanist SUCKS !!!! .... there is any choice
DEUS VULT > Humanist Ideas