4 WD RC Mower Motor Controller upgrade to Sabertooth 2x60 (Update)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มี.ค. 2022
- My RC mower needed more power. This video chronicles the steps taken to upgrade the wiring and motor controller to a Dimension Engineering Sabertooth 2X60. This is an updated video that contains addition measures to stabilize performance. I added the ground wire from the receiver channel to the controller (shown in 2x60 documentation, duh) and a flyback diode on the contactor magnetic circuit.
Link to shared DXF files for Controller Motor Wiring, Frame dimensions and alternator mount .
drive.google.com/drive/folder...
Bill of Materials
Dimension Engineering Sabertooth 2x60
24V 200A SPNO Solenoid replacement for White Rogers 58-11411
6ga silicone stranded wire (3 ft. black, 3 ft. red)
6ga 5/8" terminals (2)
6ga 1/4" terminals (4)
12ga silicone stranded wire (10 ft. black, 10 ft. red)
12ga twin ferrules (4)
16ga Silicone wire (6 ft. black, 6ft. red)
Battery Terminal crimper tool
Ferrule Crimper Tool
Assorted ring terminals 12ga - 22ga
On/off key switch - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Absolute best video on this subject
Thanks for this. I'm looking to build one to cut the bank in my yard and I didn't know the 6* rule. Had I not seen this I would have made the same mistake. Great info.
hi. great channel and product review. thanks .
Excellent design cleanly executed! Great tip on the diodes. I was contemplating having a kill channel failsafed to off, with 2 rc switches on a Y. One to a contactor to kill the ESC’s and one to ground the kill wire to the engine’s coils. In RC flying I always use the same switch to lock the throttle at cut position. Could have pan/tilt on rudder/elevator, motor control as an elevon mix, knob to throttle the engine with a dual rate setup to allow choke, maybe start on the trainer button….
Awesome job buddy!
thank you, I was debating the 32 vs 60
Yep I've just gone through exactly the same exercise with the Roboclaw 2 by 30 amp and have now upgraded to 2 by 60amp. When I contacted BasicMicro they said the stall current of a brushed DC motor can be between 3 and 15 times the motor's continuous rating.
Best regards
Alan
Hi Alan, thanks for the info. I’d hate to know If a I needed a controller @ 240amps. Ouch!!$$$$ I’m glad my mower is working fairly well on 2x60.
Great work. You should put affiliate link to the products you use and get the companies to compensate you. 😊
Love this, I am thinking of doing the same thing. What are the wattage of your motors? I have wheelchair motors that ran on the stock controller on 90amps I don’t know the actual wattage but do you think the peak of 120amp will hurt them? What type of wiring did you run to the motors? Thanks I’m advance
My motors have a peak wattage of 1200 each. As I mentioned in the video, they require 100amps per motor controller channel at peak. I only have 60A. I am thinking one using two motor controllers with one motor controller channel per wheel motor. I have a schematic on this that I will post on the google drive. If you have a motor controller that has an running amperage greater than the peak amperage you will be ok. The motors dictate the current requirement, if you have a 90 amp peak requirement it will only draw 90 amps from the controller. The 120 amp controller will be ok. See Nelson Silva comment. The wire to the motors are 12 gauge.
@@giterbilt5146 ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the help.
Good day mr.Giter Bilt, Can you pleas share dip switch settings for 2 x60 sabertooth motor controller n 4wd mower.if you have any link showing dip switch settings please share. Thank you.G..Rao
Hey in your dual wiring diagram. Are the motor controllers wired in series on the 4wd? Almost like a slave/master set audio wise but same logic.
No they are parallel. Each Sabertooth controls two motors. The control signal from a receiver channel is sent simultaneously to both controllers via split signal wire. S1 and S2 on both controllers receive the same signal input from their respective transmitter/receiver channels.
Is the ElecHawk DC in on the terminal blocks ? What direction is your diode (on solenoid/elechawk ground to positive?) ? Do you have a diode on the key switch?
There is a link in the description to a google drive that has the wiring diagram. The two diodes used have cathodes going to +24v. No diode on the key switch.
@@giterbilt5146 thank you. I have used this on a 40v kobalt and it works very well!
Can't you use receiver itself to energize the solenoid (so no Electhawk)? Is it too little of amps? Or it because receiver only produces 5V?
What is the output voltage of your Electhawk?
Hi Gaurav, the spec sheet for the contactor indicates that the coil requires 24V to operate. The Elechawk RC switch is used to supply the 24V needed to energize the contractor coil.
@@giterbilt5146 I understand. Thank you
Did you consider using DC-DC Solid State Relay instead of this kind of big contactor?
I looked at SSR but was afraid of the heat they generated. The Sabertooth controller is heat sensitive. On 95 + degree days it will shut itself down due to heat inside the case. I did not think about externally mounting the SSR AND heat sink. I’m kind of old school and went with what I was comfortable working with. If you have a recommendation, please let me know, I might use it when I add another motor controller instead of a using a contactor. Thanks for the comment!
@@giterbilt5146 I have since learned that motor controller/motors are an inductive load and SSR are only rated at 20% of their rating for inductive loads. So if you get a 400A solid state relay, it is only truly rated for 400x20%=80A.
In my application I'm using a Sabertooth 2x60 and using an 80A effective relay is not ideal. I did some tests anyway and in my application I was not going over 60A from battery but still the relay was extremely hot.
I would caution anyone against using SSR with Sabertooth or any motors.
Good day mr.giter Bilt, i watched your vedio on fly sky setting up two speeds. it is really fantastic.Appreciate if you can share the details of electrical connection for the linear actuator for raising & lowering the mower.
i wish you good health and happiness. regards : G.k.Rao
The linear actuator is wired the same as the 2x60 and connected to channel 4 on the Flysky receiver. Here is a link for the Cytron data sheet, it has very detailed instructions on wiring. docs.google.com/document/d/1MtfMosoGbtwMtnUFNAD_ilL7v05ski7z2r-MFWURM6g/mobilebasic
Thank you so much Mr.
Gilter bilt for the detailed info on MDD 10A MOTOR CONTROLLER.
is it 24 V linear actuator? Thanks
Yes
Good afternoon
Congratulations on your project, which will certainly have influenced others to make an identical machine, or with other applications.
Congratulations for sharing your knowledge, and for persisting in the project.
I also intend to do something identical, but I need something with a little more force.
I have some doubts:
1. Why did you use 24V instead of 12V?
2. Your model has 4 motors of 200W at 24V, and for that you upgraded to a Sabertooth 2x60.
3. It is possible to use 4 motors of 400W at 12V or 24V, and for that to use two Sabertooth 2x60
4. It is possible to interconnect the two Sabertooth 2x60
5. For 4 x 400W power, at 24V will the SPNO Solenoid have to be stronger? 24V 500Amp.
Thanks
And once again congratulations 😃😃😃
Hi Nelson, I used a 24V system because my motors are rated at 24V. Yes you can run 2 Sabertooth 2x60 to control four motors. I have contemplated doing this with two 2x32s. You can get RC signal cables that split so that the input to the sabertooth controller are the same signal for the channel that you’re operating. One RC channel controls M1 on both controllers and another RC channel controls M2 on both controller. Yes the solenoid/contactor would have to be sized by the total max current draw. Minimum is 240A. I would do as you suggested, 24v 500A. The larger the rating the cooler it will run.
An added benefit of using 2 motor controllers is you will have a true 4 wheel drive. With a single motor channel controlling two motors is that if one motor looses ground coupling (one wheel not touching the ground) the uncoupled motor will be the only one that spins.
Good luck with your project.
@@giterbilt5146 😀Thank you for your clarifications
I have a dual 2x60 motor controller schematic on my google drive. Link is in the description.
Good morning, I like the 2x60 double sabertooth electrical scheme to control four motors, two front and two rear.
I have a project in mind and I need two 600w 24v DC motors, a left motor and a right motor of 660w 24v dc each and it has to make a tank type turn, could it be done with two sabertooth 2x60s, one for each motor? If it could be done, I would appreciate it if you could provide me with the connection diagram.
Many thanks in advance.
Buenos dias , me gusta el esquema electrico de doble sabertooth 2x60 para controlar cuatro motores , dos delanteros y dos traseros .
Tengo un prollecto en mente y necesito dos motores de 600w 24v DC ,un motor izquierdo y un motor derecho de 660w 24v dc cada uno y tiene que hacer un giro tipo tanque , ¿ se podria hacer con dos sabertooth 2x60 uno para cada motor? si se puediera hacer , le agradeceria que me facilitara el diagrama de conexiones .
Muchas cracias de antemano.
The information you seek is linked in the description.
What are you using the MDD10A for?
Hi Andre, it is used to control the linear actuator that raises and lowers the toolbar at the front of the mower.
Hello Mr Griter, if possible what was the cost to build this +/- thanks
Excellent build!
Hi Ivan, the current controller box cost is around $500. I probably have over $2500 invested in the mower to date.
@@giterbilt5146 thanks
You should not connect two controller outputs to one motor. They will not work together and could damage the motor controllers. Your best option is to use two separate single channel motor controllers. You specified that you have 600w motors, if this is the running wattage and you are using 24v battery set, the current needed would be 25amps, with a stall current of 150amps. Here are two options that I would consider. My first choice would be the Vyper 120A DC Motor Controller, www.robotshop.com/products/vyper-120a-dc-motor-controller. My second choice (less costly) would be APO-M2 Maximum 80A ESC, www.ebay.com/itm/355349889608?itmmeta=01HS6BJ3PHJA0S3A9RH5SE4QNT&hash=item52bc810248:g:5PMAAOSwnZBlmQwu&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwL5mS9J1KtKk81bu3vt%2FvV3oJSd8%2B4MJol5y8jEd%2BSgIrDwsE%2BA0qIr4%2BHu3wOWdR49f6WfLVusukRunYwGeENe5cPyeZNGDnUoa7JyH1KO7eXlqFDU1vmzUatSCFf7mIO%2FjzGBgbHav7itZi4h2WTf44okBNUIcyOzVEFWt3WNDz7u3%2FTlRW3XqCZWrA2YiR8R%2Fjc%2B7ZeK0AjQ9iHeFVj5EVkdQfF58YBkSc4xRifv6F%2FR78zEUFx7M3jfPNjvyLQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7C7yMvJYw , it can handle the running current, but does not cover the max current.
This should work ok as long as you have a gear reduction to the wheels that would not create a load greater than 80A. My Sabertooth 2x60 can’t handle the max (stall) current and I handle this problem by changing the power output signal to stay well below max current of the Sabertooth. See my video “Taming the Beast, Flysky transmitter setup to 2 speed operation. The wiring for the individual controllers is not much different than shown on my single controller diagram. Each controller needs battery + and - , controller output + and - to each motor, and receiver Ch1 to one controller and Ch2 to the other. Good luck with your build.
What diodes are you using?
Schottky Barrier Rectifier Diodes 5A 60V
@@giterbilt5146 ok thanks Can I get your opinion?I got these laying around. I have sf54 5a 200v do you think they will work fine ?
I have the same set up as you also inspired by you as well.
Your diode is probably a better choice for the coil circuit. Dimension Engineering specified 5A 60v diode for the motor controller help.dimensionengineering.com/knowledgebase.php?article=7. I picked the Schottky diode because I was taught (40 years ago) they provide the best reverse current protection. I used it for the coil energizer because I had 99 on hand. I would think your diodes would work for both.
Great video. Would you have the Sabertooth diagram in another format by chance? Thanks.
You mentioned you used 5v 60v schottky diode? Is that supposed to be 5A 60V? Thanks.
Hi Roderick, yeah I pronounced diode specification incorrectly. Your right, it is a 5A 60v diode.
The drawings were created using LibreCad which saves it to dxf format. LibreCad will also export to SVG, PDF, image file types. LibreCad for windows is free. In google drive you can also print to file in PDF format. Google “dxf file format”. There are quite a few applications you can use to convert dxf to other file format.
I followed your process and I am experiencing diode failure while in operation. I am using only two Jazzy Z motors for my application.
what diode did you use? what parameters?I don't understand what you say in the video ...
Schottky Barrier Rectifier Diodes 5A 60V
@@giterbilt5146 Thank you very much 😃
Hello. Can you help me with connecting the sabertooth 2X60 directly to the R/C?
Review wiring at minute 7 in the video, there is a link to my wiring diagram in the description. A good source of information on wiring and rc setup of the 2x60 can be found in the Dimension Engineering Sabertooth 2x60 User Manual. Google it, it will show up. There is a whole section on RC wiring setup.
My mower is firing the motors after charging the batteries. I don't know what it could be 😞
Sir what batteries do you use? How many ah? Thanks
I use two Weize 12V 35AH Battery Rechargeable SLA Deep Cycle AGM in Series for 24V. a.co/d/hDJ6Ei0
does anyone know what the component is on the top right and what is he using it for?
Hi Dale, the component is a Cytron Dual 10A RC motor controller. I use it to operate the actuator that raises and lowers the front tool bar.
What kind of engines are you using
Hi Marek, I used Quantum Q6 wheelchair motors. Creating a mounting plate for them was arduous task. If I had to do it over again, I would use motors that have a square hole pattern for mounting. Watch the build video for my explanation of the mounting difficulty.
What is this motor rule px6 exactly? Do you have any resources about this?
If you only know the motors continuous operating current and do not know the max current, then the six time rule can be used for a ballpark max current. As I have learned from experience, the motor controller current rating should be calculated for max current. Why max? If you using the mower on a very steep incline you can sometimes stall the motor by starting or stoping to quickly. I do this a couple of times when mowing if I get too aggressive with the joy stick movement. This link should provide some information on the 6 times rule. www.power-supplies-australia.com.au/blog/power-supplies-use-dc-motors.
Please read russkydeutch comment for additional info.
Thank you ever so much for this very helpful series. I have gone pretty much the same way with my Project and likewise have discovered the inadequacies If the single 2x60 sabretooth. So arriving yesterday came the seond 2x60 from Germany. But my question is If you would be so kind to advise is clarification of your circuit diagram. I simply faul to understand why there is a second cable from the + battery which seems to bypass the Diode and go straight to the pair of sabretooth drives Without a switch. I want to incorporate diodes to protect against the Reverse Generation as you say but I just don't get it. Maybe this Technological imbecile should just do as told and I would do If it were not for the fact that your other circuit for the single 2x60 does Not show this jumper wire at all and I can understand this diagram. Could you please Tell me what I am Missing? Also what does Capital "A" in a circle mean? Ammeter Alternater?. Thank you. Kind regards from David Ede Carinthia Austria EU
Hi David, you are absolutely correct! The line to the left of diode should not be there. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I will update the schematic when I get a chance. The circle with an A in it is a symbol for an Alternator.
Schematic updated. Thanks again for your help.
@@giterbilt5146 oh thanks for the reply. Kind regards David
Sorry. I have another question before I turn the power on. I do not understand why each motor's positive and negative wires do not Return to the same Controller in all cases? For example left Motor front takes it's positive from positive on the left Hand sabretooth but it's negative returns to the negative on the right hand sabretooth. Why does it not simply return to the left sabretooth? The same question applies in all 4 cases. If I had not seen your Diagramm I would have driven the front left Motor from the Pos and neg on the left sabretooth and the left rear motor from the same pair of Pos and neg terminal on the right hand sabretooth. And ditto for the other side. If you find time to answer I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you
Kind regards David
I don’t know what the Veterans Administration was putting in my medication when I made this drawing, but I sure screwed it up. New medications new wiring diagram. Simpler to read. God I hope it’s right this time. S1 on each controller drives the front motors, S2 drives the rear set. In this diagram I show the rear motors in reverse polarity because they are mounted in the opposite direction from the front on my chassis. Again, I apologize for the confusion and thank you greatly for pointing this out. The updated diagram is on my google shared drive. If you find any other mistakes, please let me know.
Why cannot connect receiver to 5v from Sabretooth?
The Sabertooth has no power until the contactor is closed. The receiver needs separate power for the channel that turns the Sabertooth on and off.
@@giterbilt5146 alright, that is fine. Still need mechanical switch to power up receiver feed. So i have switch, that power up Sabertooth, this gives me 5v for receiver. Then from receiver i am able to move wheels and start lawnmower electric motor.
I asked really because i found that rc pmw switch i use can not feed from same line that used to power up receiver.
Can you share you charging system please
Sure, the 24v alternator has two wires, a positive and a negative. Positive alternator to positive 24v and negative alternator to negative 24v. The two 12v batteries are connected in series to provide 24v.
Same setup, but can’t get the contactor to energize. Mult shows nothing on wire from contactor to saber tooth. Tested two contactors and the same.
I jumped the contactor and sparks flew, but the saber tooth came on for a moment.
Need help with contactor please.
Hi delasjw, I helped dannythoms solve a similar problem. Read through his comments and my troubleshooting reply’s on my Four Wheel Drive Remote Controlled Control Mower Build video. I hope it puts you on the right track to solving your problem.