Yes! It was so incredibly morbid. The Bacchanal they were trying to replicate became more important than, or as important as, human life. This marked the initial moral decay that then grows into all the actions that came later. The dehumanization and abstraction of academia in the pursuit of aesthetics is on full display.
@@ItsTooLatetoApologize as detestable as Bunny was, one of the things that was good about him was he was a limiting factor to that sort of danger with his (to them) inappropriate humor. But I think the thing that turned me the most was when Henry was pretty literally putting himself on a scale with the farmer and using his measurement to justify his own life over this (for all we know) perfectly fine hard working farmer.
Sorry but WE don't slowly begin to see Bunny's flaws, selfishness, snobbery and lack of empathy... it is Richard, a liar complicit in murder who sees himself as a "good person", who slowly narrates Bunny that way, not to mention homophobic and misogynistic to boot!! Furthermore, many of Richard's characterisations of Bunny are actually based on 3rd hand information given to him by self-obsessed manipulators and liars. So the truth is, WE don't actually know what Bunny was actually like, NOR his parents either for that matter!!! But I DO agree how incredibly brilliantly Donna Tartt "gets us" and makes us complicit to!!! It's incredible how well she makes such unlikeable characters actually somehow relatable to us!!!
The way Tartt “gets us” and make us complicit is WE do see Bunny the way that Richard does. That was the brilliance of the novel. We understand why the characters did what they did. It doesn’t mean we agree with it, or would do the same things, or that the characters weren’t flawed. The point is that the reader is being manipulated, and I completely agree that Tartt did an amazing job there. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I’m so glad you brought up that Richard is basically Nick Carraway. Both narratives open in a very similar fashion, and it was fun to see Fitzgerald’s influence throughout!
EVERYTHING YOU SAID! From the book analysis to your thoughts about dark academia aesthetics is what I feel without having the vocabulary to describe it. Thank you for voicing my feelings. :)
This is my favorite novel and I recently reread it. I love how on my first read, I was totally charmed by the characters in the Greek class and on their side about murdering Bunny. Richard romanticized them so much and you fall under their spell just like he did. On my second read, however, I realized how evil and pretentious they were. For example, Francis said that he didn’t want to be put on trial because the dumb common folk would be biased against him for being rich. Yes, Bunny was openly a selfish manipulative person, but the other characters were secretly just as bad, if not worse. I also noticed that a lot of the things Richard and his group looked down on Bunny for were matters of taste and intelligence.
Yes, I agree. The perception of the moment, in any given scenario, is so relative. I think a huge reveal in the novel is the letter Julian receives from Bunny after he is dead. You see, not a stuck up brat, but a scared young man looking for someone to talk to about a serious and dangerous situation. It was quite a reality check because the reader is being heavily influenced like Richard is. We want to believe they had to do what they did. I love how this novel plays with the readers perception of events. I loved it too.
@@ItsTooLatetoApologize yes! I was genuinely upset reading Bunny’s letter and also the funeral scenes. Even though he wasn’t a good guy, he was terrified for his own safety and he had a big family at home who was devastated.
What struck me is how dumb I found all of them by the end of the novel. At the beginning I thought them intelligent and beyond my understanding but at the end I understood that they’re on my same level, just experts in a niche field and otherwise kind of naive and dumb in their street smarts. For example, Henry has a very poor understanding of how most people perceive others. He talks about wanting to make sure the book he carries around gives off the right vibe to police without understanding that they have absolutely no understanding of the message of any of the writing he’s considering carrying around. They all have such poor emotional intelligence that it was only a matter of luck that they didn’t get caught
To me, Bunny did not become more human when we see his family mourning its loss. (Frankly, I feel the rest of the Corcorans are a bit f***** up themselves). He became more human when we learn about the letter he wrote to Julian, asking for help. People may disagree with me, but I feel that Bunny’s outrageous and erratic behavior isn’t entirely about feeling bad about no longer being on the inside with his fellow classmates. I really believe he was acting up in part due to the burden of his knowledge about what his friends had done. He may not have cared necessarily about the farmer, but the horror of their act weighed on him, maybe not initially, but as he thought more about it and pieced everything together, the reality of what happened really sank in. He didn’t really know how to react - they were his friends after all - so he got really extreme, which to me, reflects how confused and jacked up he was on the inside about the whole matter, and is in line with his generally reckless personality. I do have a question about Camilla, though. What did you think of her? I felt I knew her the least. She came across as detached and cold, as she didn’t seem to display any signs of remorse that the others did. And she does appear to have divided loyalties between Henry and her brother.
Oh yeah, Bunny's family is all a bit strange but then again so is everyone in the book. That letter to Julian was very telling. Camilla was an enigma. Everyone is obsessed with her, but that distorts how we see her. She is cold, but we also don't really understand what she's going through, but it does seem as though she is being abused and controlled by her brother.
I have zero sympathy for Bunny and do not in any way see him as “more human”. If he was soooo worried about his life, then perhaps he shouldn’t have run around blackmailing his friends, continually ribbing them about it, reading the journal of said murderer, et cetera. I don’t see how any of his actions at all said he cared about his friends doing something so heinous. He used the knowledge for his own gain, rather than going to the police or some other such action that would show he cared at all. But he didn’t. Because he didn’t. It was all about how he could use it for his own gain. And even then, after everything, he still wasn’t happy! Like whingeing in Rome when he already had his entire way paid. He’s reprehensible and deserved what he got and more.
I never thought "Bunny had to die " but I empathized with Richard and his attempts to reinvent himself within this privileged circle. Also I think there was cannibalism at the Bacchus ceremony 😊
I only thought “Bunny had to die” from the others perspectives. For them there was no other way unless they turned themselves into the police. What’s also interesting is that Bunny was also trying to fit into the group like Richard was, but he was sabotaging himself, and every attempt he made only distanced himself more. And it was this distance that got Bunny killed, because I don’t believe he was sympathetic to the victim at all, it was that he was no longer on the inside. And this should have been a big warning flag to both Richard and the reader.
Reading a person by asking them what their favorite novel is. « I could do a video about that ». Yes please?🥺😂♥️ Very interesting video!! I like how you talk about the reader AND the writer’s point of view. Also your point on dark academia ; it’s funny how opposites (enrichment of one’s personal landscape on one hand, abstraction or even dehumanization on the other) can be both encouraged by the same academic ideals
I think I will make that video. 😂 Yes, it’s an intriguing concept. And it is a great reminder that we are all ignorant of something, and even enlightenment can breed ignorance. Thank you for watching. ☺️
This novel is amazing! I have read it twice in the Italian translation in which it has a completely different title that literally means "god of illusions" as a reference to the Greek god Dionisos. I enjoyed the decadent atmosphere that pervades the novel even if I found the final part a bit too long and boring. My favorite parts were those concerning the lessons with Julian and the discussions over books and philosophy between the six friends. I found it rather difficult to understand the various references to American pop culture, that occur in many occasions, as I am not acquainted with most of them. But as a whole I think this novel is so clever and so meaningful that the slight uneasiness I felt while reading it was fully compensated. Besides, I think your reflections on aesteticism are really smart, and I agree with you about the importance of unconventional education!
Yes, this book would be a struggle with all the American cultural references to a foreigner. There were a lot! This novel was a great dive into humanity and it’s pretensions. Thank you for watching.
this is a very good review and commentary, for a second I feared it would be another one of those videos focused on criticising the toxic aspects of the aesthetic/movement, but I'm very happy to listen to your very thoughtful ideas on the actual contents of the novel and not just (or at all) dark academia. in fact, it's such a good video I'm going to subscribe right away! i've taken the habit of reading more books lately (or listening audiobooks) more than ever, trying to tackle my many-years-old and continuously growing "want to read" list as fast as I can, and in between as a sort of "rest" (or palate cleanser?) I find it very useful to watch content like this video, to compare (usually silently) my own thoughts with others and cement my feelings on a book before moving on to another.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I've also started listening to audio books recently as a way of getting through more books on my ridiculously large TBR. Did you know that you can find a lot of classic novels in podcast form for free? I just discovered this, and I'm loving it.
@@ItsTooLatetoApologize yes! I also found it out recently (through TH-cam recommending Jane Eyre) and now I listen to some on youtube and others on the app Livrivox, it also has text available for some of the books, that's honestly my favourite part
Great review! You are now my favorite booktuber. I adore The Secret History and am starting with The Goldfinch shortly. Keep up the good work and Merry Chistmas!
Awe, thank you. I’m so flattered. I’ve read the Goldfinch and my review is coming up very soon. Have you read The Little Friend? I have a review for that Tartt novel as well. This year I read all three Tartt novels and now I have to wait patiently for the next one. 😭 Merry Christmas! 🎄🤶
This is one of my favorite books. I’ve read it at least six times and plan to keep reading it from time to time. It puts me in a place I can’t really describe. I just found out what dark academia is and that’s how I’ve always decorated. Loved your review. Subscribed right away. Look forward to more of your reviews. Thank you, Ruth
Basically, all points of view are correct in my opinion, it's just how you support which one. I dare say I didn't like how the henry etc characters looked good in the eyes of most readers. Henry and the others are just as bad as Bunny. Even if I dare, I can say Bunny is better than the rest. Bunny wasn't a good person, but he wasn't a murderer. It took me almost a week just to really read the rest of it
They are all heavily flawed characters. Richard a bit less than the others as he wants so badly to belong, but he is not innocent either. Merry Christmas!
One of my all-time favorites--what does that say about me?! I reread it again this year. Liking Richard, but seeing him as the unreliable narrator he may be, is one wonderfully twisted aspect of this story. How weird Julien ends up being, how in love with Henry I am, the dark mood in which to wallow! Thank you for articulating more than my "ugh, it's so good" reaction. One of my favorite quotes: "I have a morbid longing for the picturesque at all costs." I appreciate Donna Tartt for creating something so picturesque.
not to take away from the more structured and serious discussion of this vid (great job btw) i genuinely felt like Judy asking Richard one time about taking bong rips felt so real. like it made her feel like a real character, it def gives 20s in college vibes.
Fabulous review. I love the comparisons to Gatsby. Tartt’s third novel, The Goldfinch, is a modern day version of Great Expectations. Tartt is the best living author today. Can’t wait for her next one.
I actually dropped it the first time before I reached chapter 3 because it felt exhausting and too long but there was something about it that made me actually go buy it, it was much easier to read with a physical book and I ended up enjoying it much more than I thought I would.
I was a bit worried about the title, thought we were off into wokedom. But this was a great review of a good book. Young people are putting a name on all the things I like. Last time this happened the hipsters stole my beard 😡
Just finished another academia novel and I can't get it out of my head: Stoner by John Williams, 1965. A masterpiece in my opinion (and in the opinion of many others). Hope you can read it some time. take care
Oh, I’ve heard good things about that novel and of Butcher’s Crossing. I’ll have to add it to the TBR mountain. I’ve read two “dark academia” novels this year that were recommended on booktube, and they fell quite short of The Secret History for me. So thank you for this recommendation! 🤓📚
I just finished reading yesterday. What killed me and boggled my mind was how easily everyone hand-waved the FIRST murder.
Yes! It was so incredibly morbid. The Bacchanal they were trying to replicate became more important than, or as important as, human life. This marked the initial moral decay that then grows into all the actions that came later. The dehumanization and abstraction of academia in the pursuit of aesthetics is on full display.
@@ItsTooLatetoApologize as detestable as Bunny was, one of the things that was good about him was he was a limiting factor to that sort of danger with his (to them) inappropriate humor.
But I think the thing that turned me the most was when Henry was pretty literally putting himself on a scale with the farmer and using his measurement to justify his own life over this (for all we know) perfectly fine hard working farmer.
Sorry but WE don't slowly begin to see Bunny's flaws, selfishness, snobbery and lack of empathy... it is Richard, a liar complicit in murder who sees himself as a "good person", who slowly narrates Bunny that way, not to mention homophobic and misogynistic to boot!! Furthermore, many of Richard's characterisations of Bunny are actually based on 3rd hand information given to him by self-obsessed manipulators and liars. So the truth is, WE don't actually know what Bunny was actually like, NOR his parents either for that matter!!! But I DO agree how incredibly brilliantly Donna Tartt "gets us" and makes us complicit to!!! It's incredible how well she makes such unlikeable characters actually somehow relatable to us!!!
The way Tartt “gets us” and make us complicit is WE do see Bunny the way that Richard does. That was the brilliance of the novel. We understand why the characters did what they did. It doesn’t mean we agree with it, or would do the same things, or that the characters weren’t flawed. The point is that the reader is being manipulated, and I completely agree that Tartt did an amazing job there. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I’m so glad you brought up that Richard is basically Nick Carraway. Both narratives open in a very similar fashion, and it was fun to see Fitzgerald’s influence throughout!
Richard is totally like Nick. Thank you for watching. 😊
“You’re an accessory to this murder just like Richard” You’re absolutely correct. I love this review.
Thank you! ☺️
EVERYTHING YOU SAID! From the book analysis to your thoughts about dark academia aesthetics is what I feel without having the vocabulary to describe it. Thank you for voicing my feelings. :)
You’re welcome! Thank you for watching. 😊
This is my favorite novel and I recently reread it. I love how on my first read, I was totally charmed by the characters in the Greek class and on their side about murdering Bunny. Richard romanticized them so much and you fall under their spell just like he did. On my second read, however, I realized how evil and pretentious they were. For example, Francis said that he didn’t want to be put on trial because the dumb common folk would be biased against him for being rich. Yes, Bunny was openly a selfish manipulative person, but the other characters were secretly just as bad, if not worse. I also noticed that a lot of the things Richard and his group looked down on Bunny for were matters of taste and intelligence.
Yes, I agree. The perception of the moment, in any given scenario, is so relative. I think a huge reveal in the novel is the letter Julian receives from Bunny after he is dead. You see, not a stuck up brat, but a scared young man looking for someone to talk to about a serious and dangerous situation. It was quite a reality check because the reader is being heavily influenced like Richard is. We want to believe they had to do what they did. I love how this novel plays with the readers perception of events. I loved it too.
@@ItsTooLatetoApologize yes! I was genuinely upset reading Bunny’s letter and also the funeral scenes. Even though he wasn’t a good guy, he was terrified for his own safety and he had a big family at home who was devastated.
I hated all the characters from the start, so charmed, no far from it.
What struck me is how dumb I found all of them by the end of the novel. At the beginning I thought them intelligent and beyond my understanding but at the end I understood that they’re on my same level, just experts in a niche field and otherwise kind of naive and dumb in their street smarts. For example, Henry has a very poor understanding of how most people perceive others. He talks about wanting to make sure the book he carries around gives off the right vibe to police without understanding that they have absolutely no understanding of the message of any of the writing he’s considering carrying around. They all have such poor emotional intelligence that it was only a matter of luck that they didn’t get caught
To me, Bunny did not become more human when we see his family mourning its loss. (Frankly, I feel the rest of the Corcorans are a bit f***** up themselves). He became more human when we learn about the letter he wrote to Julian, asking for help. People may disagree with me, but I feel that Bunny’s outrageous and erratic behavior isn’t entirely about feeling bad about no longer being on the inside with his fellow classmates. I really believe he was acting up in part due to the burden of his knowledge about what his friends had done. He may not have cared necessarily about the farmer, but the horror of their act weighed on him, maybe not initially, but as he thought more about it and pieced everything together, the reality of what happened really sank in. He didn’t really know how to react - they were his friends after all - so he got really extreme, which to me, reflects how confused and jacked up he was on the inside about the whole matter, and is in line with his generally reckless personality.
I do have a question about Camilla, though. What did you think of her? I felt I knew her the least. She came across as detached and cold, as she didn’t seem to display any signs of remorse that the others did. And she does appear to have divided loyalties between Henry and her brother.
Oh yeah, Bunny's family is all a bit strange but then again so is everyone in the book. That letter to Julian was very telling. Camilla was an enigma. Everyone is obsessed with her, but that distorts how we see her. She is cold, but we also don't really understand what she's going through, but it does seem as though she is being abused and controlled by her brother.
I have zero sympathy for Bunny and do not in any way see him as “more human”. If he was soooo worried about his life, then perhaps he shouldn’t have run around blackmailing his friends, continually ribbing them about it, reading the journal of said murderer, et cetera.
I don’t see how any of his actions at all said he cared about his friends doing something so heinous. He used the knowledge for his own gain, rather than going to the police or some other such action that would show he cared at all. But he didn’t. Because he didn’t. It was all about how he could use it for his own gain. And even then, after everything, he still wasn’t happy! Like whingeing in Rome when he already had his entire way paid.
He’s reprehensible and deserved what he got and more.
I never thought "Bunny had to die " but I empathized with Richard and his attempts to reinvent himself within this privileged circle.
Also I think there was cannibalism at the Bacchus ceremony 😊
I only thought “Bunny had to die” from the others perspectives. For them there was no other way unless they turned themselves into the police. What’s also interesting is that Bunny was also trying to fit into the group like Richard was, but he was sabotaging himself, and every attempt he made only distanced himself more. And it was this distance that got Bunny killed, because I don’t believe he was sympathetic to the victim at all, it was that he was no longer on the inside. And this should have been a big warning flag to both Richard and the reader.
Reading a person by asking them what their favorite novel is. « I could do a video about that ». Yes please?🥺😂♥️
Very interesting video!! I like how you talk about the reader AND the writer’s point of view. Also your point on dark academia ; it’s funny how opposites (enrichment of one’s personal landscape on one hand, abstraction or even dehumanization on the other) can be both encouraged by the same academic ideals
I think I will make that video. 😂
Yes, it’s an intriguing concept. And it is a great reminder that we are all ignorant of something, and even enlightenment can breed ignorance. Thank you for watching. ☺️
This novel is amazing! I have read it twice in the Italian translation in which it has a completely different title that literally means "god of illusions" as a reference to the Greek god Dionisos. I enjoyed the decadent atmosphere that pervades the novel even if I found the final part a bit too long and boring. My favorite parts were those concerning the lessons with Julian and the discussions over books and philosophy between the six friends. I found it rather difficult to understand the various references to American pop culture, that occur in many occasions, as I am not acquainted with most of them. But as a whole I think this novel is so clever and so meaningful that the slight uneasiness I felt while reading it was fully compensated.
Besides, I think your reflections on aesteticism are really smart, and I agree with you about the importance of unconventional education!
Yes, this book would be a struggle with all the American cultural references to a foreigner. There were a lot! This novel was a great dive into humanity and it’s pretensions. Thank you for watching.
OMG! This is one of the best insights into this book I've found online.
Thank you for watching. 😊
"Marley is dead.That must be distinctly understood......."Charles Dickens is Donna Tart's favorite author
Oh yeah. Very much so.
this is a very good review and commentary, for a second I feared it would be another one of those videos focused on criticising the toxic aspects of the aesthetic/movement, but I'm very happy to listen to your very thoughtful ideas on the actual contents of the novel and not just (or at all) dark academia. in fact, it's such a good video I'm going to subscribe right away!
i've taken the habit of reading more books lately (or listening audiobooks) more than ever, trying to tackle my many-years-old and continuously growing "want to read" list as fast as I can, and in between as a sort of "rest" (or palate cleanser?) I find it very useful to watch content like this video, to compare (usually silently) my own thoughts with others and cement my feelings on a book before moving on to another.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I've also started listening to audio books recently as a way of getting through more books on my ridiculously large TBR. Did you know that you can find a lot of classic novels in podcast form for free? I just discovered this, and I'm loving it.
@@ItsTooLatetoApologize yes! I also found it out recently (through TH-cam recommending Jane Eyre) and now I listen to some on youtube and others on the app Livrivox, it also has text available for some of the books, that's honestly my favourite part
Great review! You are now my favorite booktuber. I adore The Secret History and am starting with The Goldfinch shortly. Keep up the good work and Merry Chistmas!
Awe, thank you. I’m so flattered. I’ve read the Goldfinch and my review is coming up very soon. Have you read The Little Friend? I have a review for that Tartt novel as well. This year I read all three Tartt novels and now I have to wait patiently for the next one. 😭 Merry Christmas! 🎄🤶
This review spoke to my soul! Loved it, thank you!
Thank you for watching.
This is one of my favorite books. I’ve read it at least six times and plan to keep reading it from time to time. It puts me in a place I can’t really describe. I just found out what dark academia is and that’s how I’ve always decorated. Loved your review. Subscribed right away. Look forward to more of your reviews. Thank you, Ruth
Thank you and welcome to my channel.
I accidently clicked on this and said meh might as well watch it, and you made me realise things I didn't while reading, great job 💖💖
I'm so glad!
Basically, all points of view are correct in my opinion, it's just how you support which one. I dare say I didn't like how the henry etc characters looked good in the eyes of most readers. Henry and the others are just as bad as Bunny. Even if I dare, I can say Bunny is better than the rest. Bunny wasn't a good person, but he wasn't a murderer. It took me almost a week just to really read the rest of it
They are all heavily flawed characters. Richard a bit less than the others as he wants so badly to belong, but he is not innocent either. Merry Christmas!
Amazing video, had to subscribe. U deserve way more subscribers
Thank you. 😊
One of my all-time favorites--what does that say about me?! I reread it again this year. Liking Richard, but seeing him as the unreliable narrator he may be, is one wonderfully twisted aspect of this story. How weird Julien ends up being, how in love with Henry I am, the dark mood in which to wallow! Thank you for articulating more than my "ugh, it's so good" reaction. One of my favorite quotes: "I have a morbid longing for the picturesque at all costs." I appreciate Donna Tartt for creating something so picturesque.
I love this novel too! I can’t wait to see what she puts out next.
not to take away from the more structured and serious discussion of this vid (great job btw) i genuinely felt like Judy asking Richard one time about taking bong rips felt so real. like it made her feel like a real character, it def gives 20s in college vibes.
Oh yeah, I agree. We all know a Judy Poovey, right? LOL!
I was able to listen to everything you said, but I just kept staring at that trashcan in the background and kept thinking:
*A M O G U S*
Bah hahahHahHAAaaaa! That’s hilarious.
Fabulous review. I love the comparisons to Gatsby. Tartt’s third novel, The Goldfinch, is a modern day version of Great Expectations.
Tartt is the best living author today. Can’t wait for her next one.
I can't wait too. You may like my discussions of her other 2 novels.
Please show all the pictures of the notes made in the book
I actually dropped it the first time before I reached chapter 3 because it felt exhausting and too long but there was something about it that made me actually go buy it, it was much easier to read with a physical book and I ended up enjoying it much more than I thought I would.
It's a great read. Glad you ended up liking it too.
I have a real love hate relationship with The Secret History. Great review, helped me remember the elements I really enjoyed.
That's great!
wonderful review
Thank you for watching.
I was a bit worried about the title, thought we were off into wokedom. But this was a great review of a good book.
Young people are putting a name on all the things I like. Last time this happened the hipsters stole my beard 😡
Thank you, I’m glad you liked it. Those thieving hipsters. Lol! Your poor naked chin. 😉
Just finished another academia novel and I can't get it out of my head: Stoner by John Williams, 1965. A masterpiece in my opinion (and in the opinion of many others). Hope you can read it some time. take care
Oh, I’ve heard good things about that novel and of Butcher’s Crossing. I’ll have to add it to the TBR mountain. I’ve read two “dark academia” novels this year that were recommended on booktube, and they fell quite short of The Secret History for me. So thank you for this recommendation! 🤓📚
Oh wow, forgot about Richard liking The Great Gatsby
Right? Makes a lot of sense.
Judy Poovey.
Oh, Judy.
I can handle The Da vinci code
It was a fun time! Angels and Demons was even better for me.
Among the worst novels I read this year. I found it so boring, spent a whole month getting through it.
That's valid. Nothing is for everyone.
Could not even finish it - felt like way too long re-writing of The Great Gatsby
I could not stand this pretentious book
That’s okay. Nothing is for everyone.
Finally, someone not blinded by the hype :)