I still own all of these. Whenever I get "Forever DM" burnout, I look through them and feel immediately inspired as all the old love of the game omes back.
I've always thought that B/X and BECMI are a very clean system and very easy to use. I've recently come back to D&D after a long hiatus, finding 5e far too complicated and overpowered at low level. I have always found the easiest route to enjoyment more conducive, without unnecessary mechanics getting in the way. Thanks for some great and considered comments.
At the end of the day, you only need basic stats and imagination to play a fun game, and I can fully understand your preference for the simpler times :)
I still reckon the 1983 red box basic set is the gold standard for introducing beginners to the hobby. Between a guided adventure for teaching the rules, a choose your own adventure to teach the importance of mapping, and a partially completed dungeon for the GM to finish themselves, it's an amazing teaching product in a way that nothing else has yet matched.
I sort of agree, and disagree here. From a D&D perspective - totally agree. It's the best TSR/WotC have ever done, even better than its successor, the "New Easy-to-master" set (the one with the dragon-coloured cards to introduce rules of increasing complexity). From a starter set perspective across the board - Chaosium's new sets for RuneQuest, Cthulhu, and Pendragon knock it out of the park when it comes to quality and value for money. They are just brilliant.
I haven't seen those starter sets. My main experience with starter sets is them having a straightforward adventure to run, but no real advice about making your own. That's where red box shines with its partially built dungeon that allows a new gm to get used to making their own stuff.
@@Parker8752 Agreed there. The current D&D starter sets try to do too much, and some of the ones that came out for 3E tried to do too little. For me, a good starter set should be able to stand on its own two feet for at least a good few weeks' worth of play, with robust examples of game play, and tools for the GM/DM/referee/whatever to learn the system - and Mentzer's BECMI sets do all of that very well.
The Rules Cyclopedia was one of the books on my local game store's shelf that filled me with a longing to play. I wish I had been able to purchase the book back then, but it was a rough period for my family and I couldn't afford it. All of the gaming I was able to do then was thanks to the adults at the game store who were kind enough to invite me in and make it so I could play anyway.
Hello! I am Japanese. The videos are philosophical and have a wide variety of perspectives, which is the best, and I'm sharing them. I think the percentile values for special abilities such as unlocking the thief in BECMI are too low, but how was it played back then?
Hi - and welcome! The percentiles for thief abilities at low-level involved a lot of failing to find poison needles, and leading to the necessary breaking down of doors. At mid level on, things were certainly better. One thing BECMI misses that AD&D included are adjustments to those percentages based on race, ability, and armour. Those helped a lot, and don't break BECMI if ported over. For me, the "point pool" variation on thief abilities that 2nd Ed. used works best, from the "thief abilities as percentages" era - and again, doesn't break BECMI if ported over. Not only does it give thieves more flexibility in their options, but it does help sort out some of the issues with low-level dungeoneering.
Honestly, BECMI is one of my favourite editions of the game. I really like the weapon mastery system, and would definitely consider replacing class weapon limitations with those mechanics (if a wizard really wants to learn to use a sword and a crossbow rather than a staff and darts, I'm not going to stop them - they're still going to die if they get into melee...) Edit: Also, of all the old published campaign settings, I feel like Mystara has aged the best.
Mine too - although, I much prefer skill-based games if I'm looking for the sort of complexity the weapon mastery system builds into character options. Both Rolemaster and RuneQuest, for example, present much more elegant ways of having a wizard wielding a two-handed sword than BECMI's weapon mastery rules. Buuuuutt... the caveat is, the BECMI system is also a lot of fun, and takes less than half an hour to knock up an adventure-ready character - so... Pros and cons to all systems!
@@WillyMuffinUK Fair. That said, the complexity added by weapon mastery doesn't really hit until the players get the opportunity to find more skilled warriors to learn from and are high enough level to benefit from the lessons (i.e. they get their first mastery points to spend). At first level, it's as simple as "pick 2 (or 4, if you're a fighter) weapons you are trained with; all others deal half damage". The complexity for the players increases gradually. That said, I do tend to prefer skill based progression if I want a consistent tone to the game (which I often do). Runequest and its cousins (I particularly like Mythras) are very good at allowing players to feel powerful while never allowing them to get too cocky. Edit: I personally really liked rmfrp when I played it years back. I ended up playing a rogue with some cloaking from the mentalism lists, which was a lot of fun (but got vey expensive)
@@Parker8752 I do love Rolemaster from that perspective. Things like using spell lists to represent fields of study, or tomes on specific magical subjects, is something I use in my own very hybrid games. RM's criticals are also just... lots of gory fun.
I picked up a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia last year and came to realize that it has a very odd omission - Character death! Nowhere in the RC does it emphatically say that a character reduced to 0 hp is dead! It says this for monsters, but not PCs... Of course I already knew this from earlier rules, but I just thought it was a strange thing to accidentally not mention!
It doesn't explicitly say, but it does strongly imply it on page 7. This is further reinforced on page 266, when the RCy goes into discussing variant rules regarding hit points and character death (which includes a forerunner to 5E's survival rolls). I guess part of the confusion here comes from the assumed rules of the day. Back then, the general inference was "zero means dead". The AD&D DMG muddied this somewhat by introducing the "you're not dead at 0" idea (1st Ed. DMG p82), which then leads on to people asking "what happens at zero hit points?" for non-AD&D games (such as D&D). Anyway, yes, it probably would have been better to change "The higher his hit point score, the more damage he can sustain before dying." to "When your character receives damage that takes him to 0 hit points or fewer, he dies." to make it absolutely clear :)
Thank-you! And no. We live in an area with a fair few trees, and a fair few wood pigeons that enjoy them. The occasional woodpecker, sometimes a pair of red kites, and a ton of crows and magpies can be heard hereabouts, too, as can the Canada geese that sleep in one lake but spend their day in another. Those fly over the house almost to the clock. Swans, ducks, and at least one heron are close, but they stick to the one lake for all of their personal needs.
I love Basic D&D. I don't know what about it really does it for me, but there's this odd charm to it that keeps pulling me back. And that is even while I don't think D&D is really even that great of a system for roleplaying. It's a fun system for romping in a dungeon while slaying monsters and looting stuff, but as a roleplaying game there are so many better options out there to pick from. Yet I seem to go back to the basic rules time and time again. I don't think it's the nostalgia either because I was first introduced to D&D with AD&D 2nd Edition back in the day.
All a game really needs to be is fun 🙂 You can write the best RPG ever in the annals of RPG history, but if it ain't fun, it's failed at the very first hurdle. I'm prone to picking up Basic, too, for pretty much the same reasons as you - it does the job of playing at monster murdering in just a fun, no-nonsense way.
The B/X Companion is a fan-made thing. It's current on sale for about $12 on DriveThruRPG. If you're going to play B/X, check out Squarehex.co.uk. They have a few B/X useful tidbits, including a flip book of monster stats that includes conversions to B/X of quite a number of AD&D critters. Anyway - enjoy!
This was always our go to version, BECMI. Easy to use, easy to customize. We still play this over the wotc versions. The RC is still the best book to have on the shelf, and in many ways the best book TSR put out. The master set has a king riding on the back of a dragon, clear evidence the game changed by that level.
thank you! I'll take your advice into consideration and look into it! How D&D came to be is very interesting for those who follow it! I'm looking forward to the video!
Thank you for this thorough review. I enjoyed every part of it. There have been some OGL products that deliver a B/X companion set. I would love if you could review one of those and compare them to the official rules set.
Thank-you! I may do that for Basic Fantasy, Swords & Wizardry, and OSRIC in the future (possibly others), but my priorities with this series for the moment are focused on the originals. I still have Traveller, RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu, AD&D 2nd, AD&D 3rd (etc.), BattleTech, Cyberpunk etc. etc. etc. etc. (in no particular order) on the "to do" list :o
He makes it sound so exciting but nothing beats playing it, for me the more visual tools the better, screens models computer screens etc.....that's just my opinion!
I haven't, no. I have read somewhat through its rulebooks, though. I do have a sort of rule-of-thumb in place, especially since the advent of the D20 and OGL licences, to try and avoid playing games that are too similar. C&C is very similar to D&D, in that regard (some interesting differences, but in general form they are very equitable). Similarly, I've not delved into the Dungeon Crawl Classics game, or Pathfinder, or most of the reincarnations of various D&D editions - with a few exceptions from a "let's see how they match up" perspective (which includes OSRIC and Swords & Wizardry). It's a time limitation thing, really. I would rather gain different experiences through games that trod different paths, than essentially have more or less the same experience with a different name on the cover. That's not to diss any of those games - some of them are really well done - Troll Lord being one of those companies that have produced some really good material, C&C included. If I only had all the time in the world ;)
@@WillyMuffinUK - I usually feel the same way about D&D/d20 derivatives, trying to keep the amount of them I own down since they're largely the same thing. However, I highly recommend checking out Dungeon Crawl Classics. DCC isn't just another retro-clone or house-ruled version. Although it took some small bits of inspiration from D&D, it changes and adds to nearly everything and is pretty amazing in what they did.
@@NefariousKoel The argument is the same, really. I like Goodman, and DCC isn't a bad game. But even with its differences, it is still too similar for me to dive in wholesale. If someone invented 9 day weeks that had 4 day weekends, I might be able to throw myself at everything. As it is - time is precious.
@@WillyMuffinUK I would like to see that, as the storytelling in the game is on a completely different level, and I am sure you would make it interesting to watch.
Does this reveiwer know anyone in London playing becmi 1011 basic set of rules I am not satisfied playing home brew or 2024 rules I live in London if the creator of this post knows anyone please help?
I don't, I'm afraid. The Orcs Nest (www.orcsnest.com/) does have a club register, of sorts, and a message board. Could be worth tagging them, or even popping down to their shop to see if they can help?
@@WillyMuffinUK I remember only a couple instances of reaching any levels in the Master Set, sadly none of my own characters or any from the groups I run as DM got to the immortal set, really :( But yes, that was a blast :D I think either in the B/X or somewhere in BECMI there is a playing example where someone is trying to confuse some goblins telling them "It's ok, Gary sent us". That was the tone of some of those games.
D&D rules cyclopedia is the holy grail of the RPG.
It is a very good book.
I still own all of these. Whenever I get "Forever DM" burnout, I look through them and feel immediately inspired as all the old love of the game omes back.
Relived youth works works me, too :)
I've always thought that B/X and BECMI are a very clean system and very easy to use. I've recently come back to D&D after a long hiatus, finding 5e far too complicated and overpowered at low level. I have always found the easiest route to enjoyment more conducive, without unnecessary mechanics getting in the way. Thanks for some great and considered comments.
At the end of the day, you only need basic stats and imagination to play a fun game, and I can fully understand your preference for the simpler times :)
I still reckon the 1983 red box basic set is the gold standard for introducing beginners to the hobby. Between a guided adventure for teaching the rules, a choose your own adventure to teach the importance of mapping, and a partially completed dungeon for the GM to finish themselves, it's an amazing teaching product in a way that nothing else has yet matched.
I sort of agree, and disagree here. From a D&D perspective - totally agree. It's the best TSR/WotC have ever done, even better than its successor, the "New Easy-to-master" set (the one with the dragon-coloured cards to introduce rules of increasing complexity).
From a starter set perspective across the board - Chaosium's new sets for RuneQuest, Cthulhu, and Pendragon knock it out of the park when it comes to quality and value for money. They are just brilliant.
I haven't seen those starter sets. My main experience with starter sets is them having a straightforward adventure to run, but no real advice about making your own. That's where red box shines with its partially built dungeon that allows a new gm to get used to making their own stuff.
@@Parker8752 Agreed there. The current D&D starter sets try to do too much, and some of the ones that came out for 3E tried to do too little. For me, a good starter set should be able to stand on its own two feet for at least a good few weeks' worth of play, with robust examples of game play, and tools for the GM/DM/referee/whatever to learn the system - and Mentzer's BECMI sets do all of that very well.
The Rules Cyclopedia was one of the books on my local game store's shelf that filled me with a longing to play. I wish I had been able to purchase the book back then, but it was a rough period for my family and I couldn't afford it. All of the gaming I was able to do then was thanks to the adults at the game store who were kind enough to invite me in and make it so I could play anyway.
It is still one of the most cherished books on my gaming shelves.
If you don't have it, the print on demand hardcover from Drivethrurpg is well worth buying.
You can get a Print on Demand copy from Drive Thru RPG and they are great, and very affordable! Best single RPG book ever.
Hello! I am Japanese. The videos are philosophical and have a wide variety of perspectives, which is the best, and I'm sharing them. I think the percentile values for special abilities such as unlocking the thief in BECMI are too low, but how was it played back then?
Hi - and welcome!
The percentiles for thief abilities at low-level involved a lot of failing to find poison needles, and leading to the necessary breaking down of doors. At mid level on, things were certainly better.
One thing BECMI misses that AD&D included are adjustments to those percentages based on race, ability, and armour. Those helped a lot, and don't break BECMI if ported over.
For me, the "point pool" variation on thief abilities that 2nd Ed. used works best, from the "thief abilities as percentages" era - and again, doesn't break BECMI if ported over. Not only does it give thieves more flexibility in their options, but it does help sort out some of the issues with low-level dungeoneering.
Honestly, BECMI is one of my favourite editions of the game. I really like the weapon mastery system, and would definitely consider replacing class weapon limitations with those mechanics (if a wizard really wants to learn to use a sword and a crossbow rather than a staff and darts, I'm not going to stop them - they're still going to die if they get into melee...)
Edit: Also, of all the old published campaign settings, I feel like Mystara has aged the best.
Mine too - although, I much prefer skill-based games if I'm looking for the sort of complexity the weapon mastery system builds into character options. Both Rolemaster and RuneQuest, for example, present much more elegant ways of having a wizard wielding a two-handed sword than BECMI's weapon mastery rules. Buuuuutt... the caveat is, the BECMI system is also a lot of fun, and takes less than half an hour to knock up an adventure-ready character - so... Pros and cons to all systems!
@@WillyMuffinUK Fair. That said, the complexity added by weapon mastery doesn't really hit until the players get the opportunity to find more skilled warriors to learn from and are high enough level to benefit from the lessons (i.e. they get their first mastery points to spend). At first level, it's as simple as "pick 2 (or 4, if you're a fighter) weapons you are trained with; all others deal half damage". The complexity for the players increases gradually.
That said, I do tend to prefer skill based progression if I want a consistent tone to the game (which I often do). Runequest and its cousins (I particularly like Mythras) are very good at allowing players to feel powerful while never allowing them to get too cocky.
Edit: I personally really liked rmfrp when I played it years back. I ended up playing a rogue with some cloaking from the mentalism lists, which was a lot of fun (but got vey expensive)
@@Parker8752 I do love Rolemaster from that perspective. Things like using spell lists to represent fields of study, or tomes on specific magical subjects, is something I use in my own very hybrid games. RM's criticals are also just... lots of gory fun.
I picked up a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia last year and came to realize that it has a very odd omission - Character death! Nowhere in the RC does it emphatically say that a character reduced to 0 hp is dead! It says this for monsters, but not PCs... Of course I already knew this from earlier rules, but I just thought it was a strange thing to accidentally not mention!
It doesn't explicitly say, but it does strongly imply it on page 7. This is further reinforced on page 266, when the RCy goes into discussing variant rules regarding hit points and character death (which includes a forerunner to 5E's survival rolls).
I guess part of the confusion here comes from the assumed rules of the day. Back then, the general inference was "zero means dead". The AD&D DMG muddied this somewhat by introducing the "you're not dead at 0" idea (1st Ed. DMG p82), which then leads on to people asking "what happens at zero hit points?" for non-AD&D games (such as D&D).
Anyway, yes, it probably would have been better to change "The higher his hit point score, the more damage he can sustain before dying." to "When your character receives damage that takes him to 0 hit points or fewer, he dies." to make it absolutely clear :)
Excellent and thorough breakdown.
Is that a quail rooster I hear in the background?
Thank-you! And no. We live in an area with a fair few trees, and a fair few wood pigeons that enjoy them. The occasional woodpecker, sometimes a pair of red kites, and a ton of crows and magpies can be heard hereabouts, too, as can the Canada geese that sleep in one lake but spend their day in another. Those fly over the house almost to the clock. Swans, ducks, and at least one heron are close, but they stick to the one lake for all of their personal needs.
I love Basic D&D. I don't know what about it really does it for me, but there's this odd charm to it that keeps pulling me back. And that is even while I don't think D&D is really even that great of a system for roleplaying. It's a fun system for romping in a dungeon while slaying monsters and looting stuff, but as a roleplaying game there are so many better options out there to pick from. Yet I seem to go back to the basic rules time and time again. I don't think it's the nostalgia either because I was first introduced to D&D with AD&D 2nd Edition back in the day.
All a game really needs to be is fun 🙂 You can write the best RPG ever in the annals of RPG history, but if it ain't fun, it's failed at the very first hurdle.
I'm prone to picking up Basic, too, for pretty much the same reasons as you - it does the job of playing at monster murdering in just a fun, no-nonsense way.
Really enjoyed this. Thanks. Especially enjoyed the meta analysis.
Thank-you 🙂
Just got Basic in the mail! Just waiting for Expert to arrive! These or the B/X. Later I want to get B/X Companion.
The B/X Companion is a fan-made thing. It's current on sale for about $12 on DriveThruRPG.
If you're going to play B/X, check out Squarehex.co.uk. They have a few B/X useful tidbits, including a flip book of monster stats that includes conversions to B/X of quite a number of AD&D critters.
Anyway - enjoy!
Best set of rules ever!!
This was always our go to version, BECMI. Easy to use, easy to customize. We still play this over the wotc versions. The RC is still the best book to have on the shelf, and in many ways the best book TSR put out. The master set has a king riding on the back of a dragon, clear evidence the game changed by that level.
It's certainly one of my favourite editions to go to. Simple, complete, and effective.
thank you! I'll take your advice into consideration and look into it!
How D&D came to be is very interesting for those who follow it! I'm looking forward to the video!
Thank you for this thorough review. I enjoyed every part of it. There have been some OGL products that deliver a B/X companion set. I would love if you could review one of those and compare them to the official rules set.
Thank-you! I may do that for Basic Fantasy, Swords & Wizardry, and OSRIC in the future (possibly others), but my priorities with this series for the moment are focused on the originals. I still have Traveller, RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu, AD&D 2nd, AD&D 3rd (etc.), BattleTech, Cyberpunk etc. etc. etc. etc. (in no particular order) on the "to do" list :o
He makes it sound so exciting but nothing beats playing it, for me the more visual tools the better, screens models computer screens etc.....that's just my opinion!
Absolutely nothing beats playing the game! I do prefer theatre of the mind, but those that go all-in on the visuals - all power to 'em!
The arts sort of better but nothing beats Elmore,s art from the red box 1011 and expert version of Dungeons and dragons!
Personally, from a D&D perspective, Easley is the artist that "speaks" to me most. They're both nice guys, though.
Have you played Castles and Crusades? I think that will be my next one.
I haven't, no. I have read somewhat through its rulebooks, though. I do have a sort of rule-of-thumb in place, especially since the advent of the D20 and OGL licences, to try and avoid playing games that are too similar. C&C is very similar to D&D, in that regard (some interesting differences, but in general form they are very equitable). Similarly, I've not delved into the Dungeon Crawl Classics game, or Pathfinder, or most of the reincarnations of various D&D editions - with a few exceptions from a "let's see how they match up" perspective (which includes OSRIC and Swords & Wizardry).
It's a time limitation thing, really. I would rather gain different experiences through games that trod different paths, than essentially have more or less the same experience with a different name on the cover. That's not to diss any of those games - some of them are really well done - Troll Lord being one of those companies that have produced some really good material, C&C included.
If I only had all the time in the world ;)
@@WillyMuffinUK - I usually feel the same way about D&D/d20 derivatives, trying to keep the amount of them I own down since they're largely the same thing. However, I highly recommend checking out Dungeon Crawl Classics. DCC isn't just another retro-clone or house-ruled version. Although it took some small bits of inspiration from D&D, it changes and adds to nearly everything and is pretty amazing in what they did.
@@NefariousKoel The argument is the same, really. I like Goodman, and DCC isn't a bad game. But even with its differences, it is still too similar for me to dive in wholesale.
If someone invented 9 day weeks that had 4 day weekends, I might be able to throw myself at everything. As it is - time is precious.
Amazing content!
It’s completes the missing puzzle pieces, feels like in lighting break down that devolves uncertainty with knowledge. Thank You
Thank you :)
I love all of this!
Great Review :)
Thank-you!
Maybe a review of Vampire the Masquerade from 1991.
That'll come, believe me :) Still debating whether to do Vampire separately, or cover the WoD on the whole...
@@WillyMuffinUK I would like to see that, as the storytelling in the game is on a completely different level, and I am sure you would make it interesting to watch.
Does this reveiwer know anyone in London playing becmi 1011 basic set of rules I am not satisfied playing home brew or 2024 rules I live in London if the creator of this post knows anyone please help?
I don't, I'm afraid. The Orcs Nest (www.orcsnest.com/) does have a club register, of sorts, and a message board. Could be worth tagging them, or even popping down to their shop to see if they can help?
@WillyMuffinUK Thanks for responding so quickly do you mean the orc,s nest in the west end of London. I will check them out.
@@JasonBernier-b5r Yes, that's the one.
Actually, at Master's Set level of play, you've gone beyond killing dragons to riding them like horses. (See the cover.) 😁
Heh - that is true. And at Immortals, you are using them in the same capacity as kittens :)
@@WillyMuffinUK I remember only a couple instances of reaching any levels in the Master Set, sadly none of my own characters or any from the groups I run as DM got to the immortal set, really :( But yes, that was a blast :D I think either in the B/X or somewhere in BECMI there is a playing example where someone is trying to confuse some goblins telling them "It's ok, Gary sent us". That was the tone of some of those games.
Old iS cool. I mean Old school.
Well, sometimes.
People who reveiw like this are the sort of people who encourage me to buy everything not a fan of pdf.....be warned it's expensive on Ebay!
Much cheaper to have bought it back in the day 😁
Not really a fan of PDF either. Fortunately, I have this time machine....
@@WillyMuffinUK that's just it you needed to have rich parents to afford it!
@@JasonBernier-b5r Mine were not. I did have a paper round etc.
Gary gyjax??? grammar level up
To be fair, he got my name wrong, too, as did TSR in Dragon - so I feel justified in returning the favour:)
Don't worry about it.