This is amazing. I used to hand-instrument C code to visualize what it was doing - I could do so much better with your system. If only I could use this idea directly on legacy C/C++ code...
I also cannot wait to one day try out your language. That profiling tool looks really helpful. Currently I'm spawning another thread with a GTK Window for my game.
I believe in the Java world it's called aspect programming. Aspects are coded in java and injection is done at bytecode level via DI. Can't wait to use your language. Great work.
Awesome, the post-typechecking AST modification looks really useful and it's something I haven't seen many other languages attempt. Since you were discussing plans for a possible pre-typechecking version of this, I am interested in hearing how much support there will be for "arbitrary syntax" (i.e. not just current syntactic structures, but also slightly more lenient expressions that could be used specifically to trigger a "macro"-like AST rewriter... if you can even allow for unparsed lists of expressions in some special syntax (let's say #extend(list of tokens(go "here")) then you would gain most of Lisp's power for expressing domain specific languages, which could be fucking awesome).
The low bitrate is because of the excessive colour switching on screen. In the future I recommend turning the enemies into single colours or grayscale, or even just panning the screen so that half of it is cropped out to the left.
+Jeru Sanders yeah, and the original stream was much worse than the youtube upload, to the point where none of the text on the screen was even close to readable.
Very interesting video! It's nice to see how much progress you are making. BTW, is more accurate to say that defer is the same scope (exit) in D dlang.org/spec/statement.html#ScopeGuardStatement because there are other types of scope guards.
45:10 If I'm not mistaken the background music of the demo game is the title theme of the Commodore 64 game "Commando" written by Rob Hubbard: th-cam.com/video/qrQuR1LHAVI/w-d-xo.html
Can we add some procedure at compile time? I have a use case with lot of procedures definitions coming from the extraction of a dll exported functions (or a .h file), and I may want to start to generate procedures with a basic implementation of those functions, something like a print of the procedure name and arguments. The goal is to replace the original dll, Is something like this feasible?
seems a little hacky having to define a procedure in order to be able to pull the statements out of it, instead of just defining the statements. i understand it might be difficult, because you'd have to deal with having the statements living in the global scope -- such as the for loop, which would be invalid i guess.
+Seltsamster Typ It is actually the cleanest way to do it. You don't want to drop a bunch of statements at top-level (or in any other code you are otherwise using) because there could be name conflicts or whatever else. Also, the statements are not just an array of isolated things: they contain pointers to each other and to stuff that has been imported. If they contain names that resolve to things in the global scope or that have been imported from some module via 'using', then those resolutions will vary depending on the outer environment. So the best thing is to encourage people to be precise about what that outer environment is, rather than setting up some situation that is messy and hard-to-think-about by default.
I would really like to know, what you think about the programming language "Nim", it also has the option to modify the AST, both a type checked AST or a non type checked AST. Additionally to that that language has now 10 years of development behind it, so a lot of thingst hat just need time to be developed are already there.
+krux02 I think that from a game programming POV, the GC 'by default' present in Nim would be an issue: as it's there it means that most of the libraries will use it, so if you want to have a 60FPS game, you will have to avoid most of Nim's libraries..
+Reno Zyx I've worked with the language a bit, and I would say, not really. The language is not designed like c#, you can avoid garbage collection pretty well, because the language has value semantic most of the time. Libraries that are intended to be used during rendering are garbage collection free, and libraries that have nothing to do with rendering and utilize the garbage collection can be executed on another thread, and will not harm the rendering thread at all, because memory is allocated thread local by default.
It varies depending on what is being interfaced with. Sometimes, there are redundant declarations in the C code that say what the memory offsets are of various members, and/or just are C structs whose layout matches the structs in Compiler.jai, and then any time something changes in one place, I have to be sure to change it in the other place. Sometimes, the compiler actually introspects on the declaration of the struct from the .jai file (though I think this only happens with Preload.jai, not Compiler.jai).
+Beefster09 It is in C++. Bootstrapping is one of those things where people get really excited about the idea of it, but it's actually not very interesting compared to designing a good language.
![ฮักเทื่อสุดท้าย - บอย ศิริชัย [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-1PoPoQ-B-k/mqdefault.jpg)
That compiler demo is badass!
Thanks for continuing the series.
Hell yeah man, been looking forward to more Jai!
This is amazing. I used to hand-instrument C code to visualize what it was doing - I could do so much better with your system.
If only I could use this idea directly on legacy C/C++ code...
Can't wait to try this.
I also cannot wait to one day try out your language. That profiling tool looks really helpful. Currently I'm spawning another thread with a GTK Window for my game.
great work! we need to make this happen, thank you Jonathan Blow!
I believe in the Java world it's called aspect programming. Aspects are coded in java and injection is done at bytecode level via DI. Can't wait to use your language. Great work.
It would be great fun to see this working on data structures.
how can i try jai?
Awesome, the post-typechecking AST modification looks really useful and it's something I haven't seen many other languages attempt. Since you were discussing plans for a possible pre-typechecking version of this, I am interested in hearing how much support there will be for "arbitrary syntax" (i.e. not just current syntactic structures, but also slightly more lenient expressions that could be used specifically to trigger a "macro"-like AST rewriter... if you can even allow for unparsed lists of expressions in some special syntax (let's say #extend(list of tokens(go "here")) then you would gain most of Lisp's power for expressing domain specific languages, which could be fucking awesome).
When i first saw the thumbnail on twitch i got so happy cause i thought Jon worked on programming with nodes :)
I'm curious what cmder did to your computer. I was thinking about using it.
I'm using it now and I too wonder what it does to his system.
The low bitrate is because of the excessive colour switching on screen. In the future I recommend turning the enemies into single colours or grayscale, or even just panning the screen so that half of it is cropped out to the left.
+Jeru Sanders yeah, and the original stream was much worse than the youtube upload, to the point where none of the text on the screen was even close to readable.
Will you use LLVM to generate the actual machine code? If not, could you explain why?
We will have a comprehensive update on this topic in the next demo!
Very interesting video! It's nice to see how much progress you are making.
BTW, is more accurate to say that defer is the same scope (exit) in D
dlang.org/spec/statement.html#ScopeGuardStatement
because there are other types of scope guards.
45:10 If I'm not mistaken the background music of the demo game is the title theme of the Commodore 64 game "Commando" written by Rob Hubbard: th-cam.com/video/qrQuR1LHAVI/w-d-xo.html
So this is like ASM or Javassist in the java world. Neat.
Is the compiler already public?
Nope
Where do you do type checking? is that part of the infer phase?
We need a "sophisticated" counter each demo :P
And a “robust” recount!
is this language somewhere in public yet to try?
Can we add some procedure at compile time? I have a use case with lot of procedures definitions coming from the extraction of a dll exported functions (or a .h file), and I may want to start to generate procedures with a basic implementation of those functions, something like a print of the procedure name and arguments. The goal is to replace the original dll, Is something like this feasible?
seems a little hacky having to define a procedure in order to be able to pull the statements out of it, instead of just defining the statements. i understand it might be difficult, because you'd have to deal with having the statements living in the global scope -- such as the for loop, which would be invalid i guess.
+Seltsamster Typ It is actually the cleanest way to do it. You don't want to drop a bunch of statements at top-level (or in any other code you are otherwise using) because there could be name conflicts or whatever else. Also, the statements are not just an array of isolated things: they contain pointers to each other and to stuff that has been imported. If they contain names that resolve to things in the global scope or that have been imported from some module via 'using', then those resolutions will vary depending on the outer environment. So the best thing is to encourage people to be precise about what that outer environment is, rather than setting up some situation that is messy and hard-to-think-about by default.
I would really like to know, what you think about the programming language "Nim", it also has the option to modify the AST, both a type checked AST or a non type checked AST. Additionally to that that language has now 10 years of development behind it, so a lot of thingst hat just need time to be developed are already there.
+krux02 I think that from a game programming POV, the GC 'by default' present in Nim would be an issue: as it's there it means that most of the libraries will use it, so if you want to have a 60FPS game, you will have to avoid most of Nim's libraries..
+Reno Zyx
I've worked with the language a bit, and I would say, not really. The language is not designed like c#, you can avoid garbage collection pretty well, because the language has value semantic most of the time. Libraries that are intended to be used during rendering are garbage collection free, and libraries that have nothing to do with rendering and utilize the garbage collection can be executed on another thread, and will not harm the rendering thread at all, because memory is allocated thread local by default.
@@krux02Doesn't matter. In a game everything has to be fast, not just Rendering. His point stands.
What is that song playing with the compiler?
+sumsar Requiem for a Dream
Lux Æterna by Clint Mansell from Requiem For A Dream
You better not make it public, because then I will implement a metaprogram that introduces garbage-collection
How does Compiler.jai interface with the actual C++ code for the compiler O_o
It varies depending on what is being interfaced with. Sometimes, there are redundant declarations in the C code that say what the memory offsets are of various members, and/or just are C structs whose layout matches the structs in Compiler.jai, and then any time something changes in one place, I have to be sure to change it in the other place. Sometimes, the compiler actually introspects on the declaration of the struct from the .jai file (though I think this only happens with Preload.jai, not Compiler.jai).
2:17 song name?
Lux Æterna by Clint Mansell from Requiem For A Dream
Is the compiler bootstrapped or is it still implemented in C++?
+Beefster09 Good question. I'm curious as well.
Wouldnt it be a little pointless to bootsrap it while it still compiles via c anyway?
+Beefster09 It is in C++. Bootstrapping is one of those things where people get really excited about the idea of it, but it's actually not very interesting compared to designing a good language.
The platform on which the code is being executed seems irrelevant for bootstrapping but I'm not sure.
Does anyone know the link to the source code of this demo?
+Benjamin Pedersen t.co/BUiql3W24H
Thanks
+Octagon jon made a twitter post including the link prior to the demo