I've always taken the opportunity when someone pulls something similar to this with me to simply respond with, "Sure am." It throws them off every time.
@@bluemooninthedaylight8073 If someone wants to present me as x thing, so be it, I'll be your boogeyman. I don't give a shit. I'm not going to fall for stupid tricks. If I have a goal I want achieved, then I want it achieved and some shmuck trying to make me feel bad about it does not alter that goal in any way.
@@innoclarke7435 Yup! i do the same thing when they call me a Nazi, for holding a political belief that has nothing to do with Nazism. I normally say "Well, I guess I am" really throws them off its actually quite entertaining lol. at the end of the day i know what my beliefs are, no matter what they say it doesn't change that...
@@origintrackz5235 What I do when someone makes such a false, otherworldly association is tell them: "so what?" I've left people stammering many times that way.
Hey Tim, I just wanted to drop this thank you somewhere you might actually see it. The Fallout games got me through my severe PTSD. I was almost murdered in 2014 while visiting Boston. Stabbed 14 times with various blades, including a machete. When i was recovering, all i could do was play games, and Fallout 4 came out while I was secluding myself, so i decided to face my fear of Boston. Conquering the literal monsters of the wasteland helped me conquer the figurative monsters of my own mental paralysis, and as i went back through the other Fallouts in reverse order I got stronger and stronger. I now have a wife and 3 beautiful children with her, with Fallout playing no small part in my recovery, because if that wasteland hadnt helped me conquer my demons through catharsis and dark humor, I don't know if i would even be here today. Thank you Tim, for creating this wonderful world that saved me
Negotiating salary is such a pain, especially when you have been unemployed for a period of time. I've been stuck on an entry level salary for about 4 years and only recently after switching jobs have I been able to increase my wage. I don't blame the company I worked at but like Tim said, the salary was blocking my life goals.
One thing I love about this channel is that you don't do quick edits, and you take the time to think deeply about the situations you're recounting. It's very refreshing and authentic.
hey tim! fallout 1 & 2 are probably one of my favourite games of all time. its expanded so much of my imagination as a creative. so very grateful that you kept at your craft despite all these worldly setbacks. i absolutely appreciate you being so candid and just sharing your life so intimately.
I think you were justified in asking for that raise. It was clear that you were more than qualified for the job and you deserved to be paid a decent amount. In the end, I'm happy that it turned out alright for both parties, as Fallout is one of my favorite franchises
I love that at the end of the video you discussed the different interpretations we could have and coached us into not having either of those reactions :) Tim knows the internets well :P
Our generation is working at extracting ourselves from the idea that we have a moral responsibility to the company we work for's projects, outside of what we're hired and paid to do. If Fallout had been scrapped because you were underpaid, it would have been interplay's fault for not allocating the proper resources, that's it.
A very interesting insight into the industry as always, Tim! Fascinating to see how software-related positions haven't changed since then in terms of getting a good salary. Today still, you ask for a decent salary - and in many companies get this "Ridiculous, you mean you work here for money?!". Um, yeah, it's s job, I have bills to pay? But very glad you pushed through that successfully.
This is the case still unfortunately, i cant even get hired even though i can do several peoples jobs in the whole pipeline and this is their response.
hi tim, binging your videos lately and as an amateur developer i love how you focus on nuance and "what ifs" in your story telling, as well as how humble you come across. Thank you for these!
Beyond Interplay or even the game industry, there seems to be a broader "penny wise and pound foolish" attitude that permeates our societies. Companies that can get away with underpaying employees often do. Even their most valued employees.
Corporations don't pay people what they are worth, they pay you what you think you are worth. It's a pity that competent people suffer from Dunning Kruger so they don't think they are worth the same as people who turn out not to be.
I think this story pairs nicely with the story of why you left during the development of Fallout 2. In both stories you prioritized yourself. In one Interplay was able to meet your needs and keep you around. In the other, it wasn't. I think these stories really highlight that it is great to have passion for the things you work on, but to not let work be the only passion in your life. You're a cool guy Tim.
Thank you so much for these uploads. In many cases (such as this one) I feel like I'm learning stuff that was unconsciously skipped over in my game studies undergrad years.
[Barter 26/50] I want a raise! Boss: "No." [BigboyPants] Don't be surprised if I come with a 2 weeks notice. Boss: "Whoa! Let me talk to my superiors... Alright, that was quick. You got the raise." 500 Bottlecaps added to your inventory. HOME SWEET HOME COMPLETED
This story speaks to me on so so so many levels I was super underpaid for the entire duration of my previous employment, like 12k underpaid compared to a junior spot while I was a senior I spent years being super frugal and saving everything I could to get the (for me) 10% down payment I luckily ended up finding a real ramshackle place for 55k which is really good even for a dodgy area like where I live I ended up leaving the old job for a standard position in a new company for a good amount more, when it came to my exit interview, it nearly didn't happen because they weren't willing to even match half the raise I'd be getting for the new place My problem was that I didn't ask for regular raises so people below me were earning more, though I'd always be pushing for everyone else to get raises which got the base starting pay increased by 6k (higher than what the limit was when I started) which I'm still very proud of You absolutely did the right thing by threatening to leave, employers will always pay the absolute bare minimum that they can get away with
I'd love to hear about Tyranny's development. I was told it was, *ahem*, dramatic and traumatic. Without airing dirty laundry, I'd like to hear some thoughts from you on what lead to so much friction. Thanks!
I was paid 30k as a scriptor at Interplay. When I was laid off from Interplay. I got one job my next job 45k and than I got 60k within less than 1 year. Interplay did under play it. Michael Bernstein or Jay Patel might been for to take over the code.
i love your attitude Tim. A perfect look at both sides of the argument of pay-rates. I'll always lean on the side of the worker, personally, but one does agree to do a job for a price, and it's a matter of principle to do it.
It’s important to know your worth, your bosses certainly do and they’ll get a bargain on your labour if they can get away with it, don’t be afraid to put the screws to them.
Hey Tim 💖 I’m super happy it didn’t get canceled as I just experienced this gem from start to end this last week and it was an absolute marvel. you can really feel the love you guys put into this game 🤙 thanks for making my favorite RPG series of all time and space.
I had a similar experience where I was promoted to a supervisor for a team of several people and when I took it on I wasn't aware that my new salary was probably $15k under the national average for that role. After working in that capacity for about a year or so I went to my manager and said told them that I didn't feel like I was being fairly compensated for everything I was responsible for and wanted them to do the right thing and close the pay gap. They said they would look into it. The next day they sat me down in a conference room and "accepted my resignation". It was a let down as I didn't think I was being very unreasonable but it was not surprising and I was prepared for that outcome. After I left I heard that they had a lot of trouble hiring anyone that would stay in that role for very long due to the amount of work for so little pay. I ended up getting hired at a much nicer company, located much closer to my home, and for better pay. Very glad things worked out the way they did!
Hey Tim, love your videos, love your games. Couldn't have started this TH-cam channel at a better time because I'm directing an Sci-Fi Indie CRPG called Within Cold Stars and I couldn't do it without your inspiration
@@jeremyjohnson9609 not a devlog, but on my channel we are doing a lore video series, and eventually we'll release info about the actual game specifics
@@jeremyjohnson9609 it's still in early production so we aren't releasing any gameplay details yet, we will have a video coming soon that summarizes our overall vision for the game
I’d love to hear about how Obsidian staff coped while developing South Park. I’ve heard stories of some staff feeling uncomfortable with the games humour.
It’s so interested to know that with one small decision, it never would’ve released. I suppose it happens with most things, but hearing the stories that come from it is awesome. Thanks, Tim!
I'd really love to hear stories about post-Troika games that you list at the end of video, doubly so about Pillars, and hopefully maybe even a chat video with Josh Sawyer one day, especially with you mentioning things that you picked up from working with him several times on this channel
I hope you will tell those stories about the near cancelation of the other games you've worked on as well. This is definitely one of the few cases where we do want to find out how the sausage is made.
I feel like employers should be more worried about losing talented people and the issue of massively underpaying someone should never come up. I know you said not to call them evil, but they essentially abuse the fact the employees don't know what everyone else is paid.
Thank you a million times over. It's so common for people who work on/lead/create games/media/entertainment that is loved to turn out to be totally unhinged and self-absorbed when they start speaking without scripts. Just you having the self-awareness to recognize: "I was made an offer, I accepted that offer, I'm an adult who makes their own decisions and negotiated afterwards" instead of this 'private enterprise now, seize the means of production' stuff that so many people like to push verbally without understanding. Thank you for being a responsible adult and encouraging that viewpoint. Thank you for, at every turn, demonstrating the capacity for nuance, and not being nasty to everyone. It really shouldn't be the sort of thing that needs to be said, but thank you. Listening to a developer who can recognize their own mistakes, not try to push painfully one-sided "social causes" without any critical thought or introspection, etc has been utterly refreshing. I find myself genuinely pleased and feeling informed each time I watch one of your videos.
Heya Tim! Two questions in one, if that's alright with you! 1. Do you have a dedicated email, blog, or inbox that we can send you questions at in your off time, or to see what questions you've already answered? 2. Regarding Harold, FEV, and mutants in general, such as the Master, were there ever any Lovecraftian, eldritch, or occult influences or inspirations to them, or were they primarily science fiction in nature, being B-movie rejects without the complexity of tying them to some elder god or otherworldly being?
I'd like to know about that too. It would be nice to have a blog or something to that effect, in which we could interact with him, right? I just love his insights (not only about the industry, but about life itself as well).
He asked that we ask our questions in the comment section of his 'Pick a Topic' video: th-cam.com/video/GOLwuxtnThE/w-d-xo.html Most of us are just talking video games with other people who enjoy video games and that's a lot of passion to scroll through to find a question that's actually relevant to the aim of Tim's personal storytelling channel. :)
It's been so interesting seeing all of these behind the scenes conversations about the development of Fallout, been wanting to see more of it ever since that Eurogamer interview I saw you in a few years back. So glad Fallout wasn't cancelled; its such a great game franchise and has a great community that I'm happy to be apart of. All the best, Tim!
Would there have been a good way to find your worth to the company earlier in order to get higher compensation earlier? As a mentor, how would you recommend to someone to better identify and negotiate their market value? I also imagine there are plenty of people who overvalue their output, and others who are better at negotiating during hiring.
I would join neither of those 'camps' you claim there would be. My impression was simpler. Good job, Tim. You did right for yourself and at the same time you reached your goal and did it with no repercussions. Perfectly balanced on that mentioned knife's edge.
I'd really love to hear you take on the trajectory of the franchise as a whole- just personal opinion. From the first games through to the bethesda acquisition to the modern day. In terms of lore, tone, concepts, etc.
I like your videos because they're not only good advice for designing a game, or how workplaces work, they're also indirectly life advice. As an aspiring Game Dev, getting to hear stories from somebody who has been in the industry for 40 years for free is invaluable.
My experience is that a lot of the times the things that are completed on the knife's edge are often the ones that are the most deserving victories. A worse product, when it faces challenges that would be a potential cancellation, they'd just be canceled. But a great product with challenges has people to advocate for it and can inspire people to invest in something they would otherwise feel was too risky or difficult. A worse product, when it is given more resources than it needs and isn't ever concerned for failure gets filled with hubris and can never really pare down to the passion and vision. I think about fallout 1 vs fallout 2 and your stories. The number of potentially the wrong people who want to work on a successful sequel because it's a success, the number of people who want to be involved that really shouldn't because they want their name on something they just assume will be successful. This is why a lot of the most memorable games are scrappy unexpected successes. Because when you are on the knife's edge, the people who are retained are the people who truly see something great. You are forced to deal with the people who really cause a problem, you are forced to do the best with the people who you do have who might not be traditional superstars.
I'd like to thank you for these videos. I'm not even in the industry but you do help me to think about decisions like the one you just mentioned right there. And as many people might have said here. I'm so glad things worked out and the game wasn't canceled. Hehe.
I admire your attitude and passion towards games, projects, people in your team, your own life goals. It all seems to go just with the same Tim Cain logic, there's no flaws in there of what these videos have told. I mean, I wish young people would watch these all from the beginning and learn a huge lessons about life in general.
Hey Tim, it's me, Dusty. Thanks for doing all these videos and sharing knowledge, motivation and inspiration. You single-handedly made me pick up GameDev as a hobby again, prototyping away and thinking about design pillars and trying to create interesting mechanics, or at least think them up. I was wondering if you have anything more to say about Fallout's Oblique Cavalier Perspective and the whole process or pipeline that was used for generating the ingame art and assets for the game? What was the motivation behind going for Oblique Cavalier instead of traditional isometric perspective? Why the hex-grid? Was everything created in 3D-Software and then rendered to sprites? I'm pretty sure about that, but my point is: the classic Fallout games posses so much visual charm still to this day and much of this probably stems from working around the limitations of the time, but it would be pretty rad (no pun intended) to know how this was achieved back in the day, so it can be approximated more easily with modern tools. I'm not very experienced with this as of now, but it seems like it's pretty difficult to set something like Oblique Cavalier up in current widespread software like Blender. Not gonna lie, I've just been trying to replicate some of Classic Fallout's visual aesthetic within Godot and Blender the last few days and it's not been easy, but a lot of fun and it keeps me learning and engaged. Appreciate any of your insight in how you might go about this today, or how it was done back in the day. Have a nice day and thank you so for your work and videos!
that producer who said something to your boss, was another person who mightve single handedly saved fallout. The more stories I here the more I realize this almost never happened.
Long time fan here, it's great to hear your stories. Just wanted to say, I first played Fallout when I was 9 (clearly the target audience) and I like to think it shaped my humor in some way, and love for RPGs. I also loved The Outer Worlds, however I'm just wondering what seems to have happened with Spacers Choice edition? I haven't bought it - yet - but it hasn't had a great wrap. Any thoughts on what may have happened with the release?
I understand the logic of "I accepted a job at this pay, they didn't do anything wrong by paying me that amount", and it's surely correct (well, it should still be offset against inflation otherwise they're paying you less each year, but still). Even so, I think it's also a mindset that's very easy to set someone against themselves. As an example: One my colleagues through the time at my company was a "single point of failure" for a core part of the business at a massive enterprise company. Nobody could do his job, few people could even understand it, but if he didn't do it, or left, or went under a bus, one of the most foundational products of the entire company just wouldn't work. And he was paid peanuts. But because of that mentality, and a previous boss that had given him a terrible guilt trip about asking for a raise, he had the mindset of "If you need to ask for more money, then you should get a different job, you agreed to this job at this pay." And so he never said anything and never asked for more money. And over time that core business was diminished as the market changed, and the company realised he was a single point of failure so other people were brought in and trained up in that section, and now he has a very hard time at salary reviews and barely has any leverage for asking for a raise. And inflation has chipped away at a huge part of that wage, and his mortage hasn't gone away. A company lowballing someone and then giving the usual spiels about "Don't tell anyone we're paying you this much, they'll get jealous" is just capitalism, but it also does suck and I wish it didn't happen. That doesn't make Interplay bad, but it does mean they weren't acting in good faith.
I know you said many times you are not allowed to release official patches because of the existing contracts with the producers... but would you ever consider releasing a fan mod for one of your games to include, fix or change content or mechanics the way you wanted to have done if you had the time?
There is a 3rd radical interpretation. As the two radical interpretations aren't mutually exclusive. 😂 I do understand and applaud the call for nauance. From a writing standpoint, of telling a story, it is somewhat amusing to think of Tim as an entitled-jerk-victim that put his project at risk of being cancelled because a heartless company exploited him. Then it's almost like a Coen brothers movie :D Great video as always!
I admire the amount of common sense in all your takes. What bothers me, however, is that it seems a person needs to be a real, honest-to-god genius to have reasonable views these days.
I was in a very similar situation.. I got a mysterious high raise at one salary meeting, once two people stopped at my work. I only achieved average pay, given my education, work and educational level... In salary negotiation, you gotta lookout for yourself.
It's very true that any game that survived till release is a miracle. And sometimes it's very sad to see how players easily bash them. Regarding the raise story - most companies these days still prohibit to discuss salaries within (on a contract level). So it all comes to an individual knowing their "price" and the current overall financial situation in the industry. Sometimes people just want certain jobs so much they are ready to work for food. And companies take advantage of it. Since it's business, managing costs for maintaining personnel is a part of it. Happy it all turned out well for you and Fallout (and everyone present here)!
I just got bored of that there is no good tv series or films to watch nowadays , then saw that Tim Cain finally tells his experience . Best think to watch right now :) Btw this is my opinion but i think i watched soo many other Role Play games and i think S.P.E.C.I.A.L (Strenght Perception Endurance Charisma Intelligence Agility Luck) is the best naming and can easly understandable .
Considering how influential Fallout ended up being as a game and a series, it's mind blowing to think about what the effects would have been of one guy saying "no we will not give you a raise" one time in 1995
I think the problem is that no one is at fault 😂 everyone is just trying to get what they can, and we need to commiserate to that and accept it without antagonizing people. because one day it would be us asking for, or denying the raise.
Management is management, its amazing how universal management is with pay. It's the same with low and high paid jobs, only people who ask get pay rises.
Thank you for telling all these amazing stories! You already talked about the many influences in Fallout and that the first Wasteland was just one of them. So I wonder, would you say that Wasteland also kind of saved Fallout in that it had shown that a post-apocalyptic rpg had a viable niche in the gaming-market (beyond D&D)?
Hi Tim hoping you will answer this how do you feel about fallout 4's depiction of power armour and how it compares to the original idea and vision of what power armour was meant to be love the channel please keep these videos coming
I love Americans definitions of small and large houses. In the UK you are lucky if an affordable house has more than two rooms and can fit two people. You literally can't swing a cat, or a dog in this case (not that you should obviously 😊)
"Vastly underpaid" Ironically a universal truth for most jobs. Nice guys who work hard always get shafted. Guys who have lots of connections don't need to work much at all to still get paid more.
“You’re going to abandon your project?!” Nothing like a bit of manipulation to try and keep you underpaid!
I've always taken the opportunity when someone pulls something similar to this with me to simply respond with, "Sure am." It throws them off every time.
@@innoclarke7435 You called their bluff, good for you.
@@bluemooninthedaylight8073 If someone wants to present me as x thing, so be it, I'll be your boogeyman. I don't give a shit. I'm not going to fall for stupid tricks. If I have a goal I want achieved, then I want it achieved and some shmuck trying to make me feel bad about it does not alter that goal in any way.
@@innoclarke7435 Yup! i do the same thing when they call me a Nazi, for holding a political belief that has nothing to do with Nazism. I normally say "Well, I guess I am" really throws them off its actually quite entertaining lol. at the end of the day i know what my beliefs are, no matter what they say it doesn't change that...
@@origintrackz5235 What I do when someone makes such a false, otherworldly association is tell them: "so what?" I've left people stammering many times that way.
Glad it wasn't canceled. The first Fallout game is among one of my favorites of all time!
Great channel bro
glad you found your way to this channel. Tim's an absolute legend
Woah one of my favorite TH-camrs watching another one of my favorite TH-camr, nice
Subscribed!
@@tonij708 Maybe let's not drown Tim in inter channel drama?
Confirmed Tim tagged Science, Speech, and Barter and then grabbed Animal Friend.
Just a Good Natured guy
Hey Tim, I just wanted to drop this thank you somewhere you might actually see it. The Fallout games got me through my severe PTSD. I was almost murdered in 2014 while visiting Boston. Stabbed 14 times with various blades, including a machete. When i was recovering, all i could do was play games, and Fallout 4 came out while I was secluding myself, so i decided to face my fear of Boston. Conquering the literal monsters of the wasteland helped me conquer the figurative monsters of my own mental paralysis, and as i went back through the other Fallouts in reverse order I got stronger and stronger. I now have a wife and 3 beautiful children with her, with Fallout playing no small part in my recovery, because if that wasteland hadnt helped me conquer my demons through catharsis and dark humor, I don't know if i would even be here today. Thank you Tim, for creating this wonderful world that saved me
I’m very happy you got through that experience to a wonderful place.
Me too. Thanks so much for the response
@@drcrowlee Dude I'm glad you're ok.
@@ZiddersRooFurry thanks. It's been a long road but came out of it a better person
Dam bro. Our world is so messed up
>I could tell you similar stories about every game I worked on
STOP BUYING SO MANY HOUSES!
Negotiating salary is such a pain, especially when you have been unemployed for a period of time. I've been stuck on an entry level salary for about 4 years and only recently after switching jobs have I been able to increase my wage. I don't blame the company I worked at but like Tim said, the salary was blocking my life goals.
I'm so jealous you were able to buy a house before you were 30 😂
Well deserved though! Fun stories as always 😊
One thing I love about this channel is that you don't do quick edits, and you take the time to think deeply about the situations you're recounting. It's very refreshing and authentic.
hey tim! fallout 1 & 2 are probably one of my favourite games of all time. its expanded so much of my imagination as a creative. so very grateful that you kept at your craft despite all these worldly setbacks. i absolutely appreciate you being so candid and just sharing your life so intimately.
Interplay underpaid you simply because they could, and flipped out to make sure you wouldn't rock the boat.
Tim, thank you for uploading an just having these conversations and shedding a light on so many things fallout an game industry related
I think you were justified in asking for that raise. It was clear that you were more than qualified for the job and you deserved to be paid a decent amount. In the end, I'm happy that it turned out alright for both parties, as Fallout is one of my favorite franchises
yeah it's awesome everything turned out good
I love that at the end of the video you discussed the different interpretations we could have and coached us into not having either of those reactions :) Tim knows the internets well :P
You're not a jerk. You were severely undervalued (to an actual dollar value), and the result of the project proved it beyond doubt.
This is awesome! I’m going and watching all of the Fallout videos by you now, and i’m amazed.
Our generation is working at extracting ourselves from the idea that we have a moral responsibility to the company we work for's projects, outside of what we're hired and paid to do. If Fallout had been scrapped because you were underpaid, it would have been interplay's fault for not allocating the proper resources, that's it.
A very interesting insight into the industry as always, Tim! Fascinating to see how software-related positions haven't changed since then in terms of getting a good salary. Today still, you ask for a decent salary - and in many companies get this "Ridiculous, you mean you work here for money?!". Um, yeah, it's s job, I have bills to pay? But very glad you pushed through that successfully.
This is the case still unfortunately, i cant even get hired even though i can do several peoples jobs in the whole pipeline and this is their response.
hi tim, binging your videos lately and as an amateur developer i love how you focus on nuance and "what ifs" in your story telling, as well as how humble you come across. Thank you for these!
Beyond Interplay or even the game industry, there seems to be a broader "penny wise and pound foolish" attitude that permeates our societies. Companies that can get away with underpaying employees often do. Even their most valued employees.
You have me really wanting to start taking notes and journaling again just to remember things better later
Tim, I just wanted to say thank you. As a fan of the series, these videos are such a treat. Cheers🎉
Corporations don't pay people what they are worth, they pay you what you think you are worth. It's a pity that competent people suffer from Dunning Kruger so they don't think they are worth the same as people who turn out not to be.
Hearing you talk about the layout of the house and decorating and stuff was kind of adorable, I just wanted to tell you.
Great video as always Tim, keep em coming!
I think this story pairs nicely with the story of why you left during the development of Fallout 2.
In both stories you prioritized yourself. In one Interplay was able to meet your needs and keep you around. In the other, it wasn't. I think these stories really highlight that it is great to have passion for the things you work on, but to not let work be the only passion in your life. You're a cool guy Tim.
This is such a moving personal story. Thanks for sharing, Tim.
Thank you so much for these uploads. In many cases (such as this one) I feel like I'm learning stuff that was unconsciously skipped over in my game studies undergrad years.
[Barter 26/50] I want a raise!
Boss: "No."
[BigboyPants] Don't be surprised if I come with a 2 weeks notice.
Boss: "Whoa! Let me talk to my superiors... Alright, that was quick. You got the raise."
500 Bottlecaps added to your inventory.
HOME SWEET HOME COMPLETED
This story speaks to me on so so so many levels
I was super underpaid for the entire duration of my previous employment, like 12k underpaid compared to a junior spot while I was a senior
I spent years being super frugal and saving everything I could to get the (for me) 10% down payment
I luckily ended up finding a real ramshackle place for 55k which is really good even for a dodgy area like where I live
I ended up leaving the old job for a standard position in a new company for a good amount more, when it came to my exit interview, it nearly didn't happen because they weren't willing to even match half the raise I'd be getting for the new place
My problem was that I didn't ask for regular raises so people below me were earning more, though I'd always be pushing for everyone else to get raises which got the base starting pay increased by 6k (higher than what the limit was when I started) which I'm still very proud of
You absolutely did the right thing by threatening to leave, employers will always pay the absolute bare minimum that they can get away with
I'd love to hear about Tyranny's development. I was told it was, *ahem*, dramatic and traumatic. Without airing dirty laundry, I'd like to hear some thoughts from you on what lead to so much friction. Thanks!
I was paid 30k as a scriptor at Interplay. When I was laid off from Interplay. I got one job my next job 45k and than I got 60k within less than 1 year. Interplay did under play it. Michael Bernstein or Jay Patel might been for to take over the code.
i love your attitude Tim. A perfect look at both sides of the argument of pay-rates. I'll always lean on the side of the worker, personally, but one does agree to do a job for a price, and it's a matter of principle to do it.
Just on a side note, woah, McDonnell-Douglas? You would have been working on the YF-23!
These are amazing lessons to teach. Thank you for your contribution.
It’s important to know your worth, your bosses certainly do and they’ll get a bargain on your labour if they can get away with it, don’t be afraid to put the screws to them.
Hey Tim 💖
I’m super happy it didn’t get canceled as I just experienced this gem from start to end this last week and it was an absolute marvel. you can really feel the love you guys put into this game 🤙 thanks for making my favorite RPG series of all time and space.
Looking forward to seeing your “Entitled Maniac” t-shirt in the near future.
I had a similar experience where I was promoted to a supervisor for a team of several people and when I took it on I wasn't aware that my new salary was probably $15k under the national average for that role. After working in that capacity for about a year or so I went to my manager and said told them that I didn't feel like I was being fairly compensated for everything I was responsible for and wanted them to do the right thing and close the pay gap. They said they would look into it. The next day they sat me down in a conference room and "accepted my resignation". It was a let down as I didn't think I was being very unreasonable but it was not surprising and I was prepared for that outcome.
After I left I heard that they had a lot of trouble hiring anyone that would stay in that role for very long due to the amount of work for so little pay. I ended up getting hired at a much nicer company, located much closer to my home, and for better pay. Very glad things worked out the way they did!
Hey Tim, love your videos, love your games. Couldn't have started this TH-cam channel at a better time because I'm directing an Sci-Fi Indie CRPG called Within Cold Stars and I couldn't do it without your inspiration
Are you gonna make a devlog series around it? I would love to follow the project
@@jeremyjohnson9609 not a devlog, but on my channel we are doing a lore video series, and eventually we'll release info about the actual game specifics
@@jeremyjohnson9609 it's still in early production so we aren't releasing any gameplay details yet, we will have a video coming soon that summarizes our overall vision for the game
I’d love to hear about how Obsidian staff coped while developing South Park. I’ve heard stories of some staff feeling uncomfortable with the games humour.
Just saw the upload, just wanted to pass by to wish You a good day, Tim!
Just guys being doods here.
Oh no!
You have changed 'dood' to 'good'!
Hidden Gem, why would you ever dood me like that?!
It’s so interested to know that with one small decision, it never would’ve released. I suppose it happens with most things, but hearing the stories that come from it is awesome. Thanks, Tim!
Not related to the content but I must say I love Tim's voice. It's a pleasure to listen him talking while playing some games.
It's just really rough to see how many things can go wrong and how many bumps are there in these projects.
I'd really love to hear stories about post-Troika games that you list at the end of video, doubly so about Pillars, and hopefully maybe even a chat video with Josh Sawyer one day, especially with you mentioning things that you picked up from working with him several times on this channel
I hope you will tell those stories about the near cancelation of the other games you've worked on as well. This is definitely one of the few cases where we do want to find out how the sausage is made.
I feel like employers should be more worried about losing talented people and the issue of massively underpaying someone should never come up. I know you said not to call them evil, but they essentially abuse the fact the employees don't know what everyone else is paid.
Thank you a million times over. It's so common for people who work on/lead/create games/media/entertainment that is loved to turn out to be totally unhinged and self-absorbed when they start speaking without scripts. Just you having the self-awareness to recognize: "I was made an offer, I accepted that offer, I'm an adult who makes their own decisions and negotiated afterwards" instead of this 'private enterprise now, seize the means of production' stuff that so many people like to push verbally without understanding. Thank you for being a responsible adult and encouraging that viewpoint. Thank you for, at every turn, demonstrating the capacity for nuance, and not being nasty to everyone.
It really shouldn't be the sort of thing that needs to be said, but thank you. Listening to a developer who can recognize their own mistakes, not try to push painfully one-sided "social causes" without any critical thought or introspection, etc has been utterly refreshing. I find myself genuinely pleased and feeling informed each time I watch one of your videos.
I enjoy the daily stories, its a nice little break in my day ❤
Lol yep
Heya Tim! Two questions in one, if that's alright with you!
1. Do you have a dedicated email, blog, or inbox that we can send you questions at in your off time, or to see what questions you've already answered?
2. Regarding Harold, FEV, and mutants in general, such as the Master, were there ever any Lovecraftian, eldritch, or occult influences or inspirations to them, or were they primarily science fiction in nature, being B-movie rejects without the complexity of tying them to some elder god or otherworldly being?
I'd like to know about that too. It would be nice to have a blog or something to that effect, in which we could interact with him, right? I just love his insights (not only about the industry, but about life itself as well).
He asked that we ask our questions in the comment section of his 'Pick a Topic' video: th-cam.com/video/GOLwuxtnThE/w-d-xo.html Most of us are just talking video games with other people who enjoy video games and that's a lot of passion to scroll through to find a question that's actually relevant to the aim of Tim's personal storytelling channel. :)
It's been so interesting seeing all of these behind the scenes conversations about the development of Fallout, been wanting to see more of it ever since that Eurogamer interview I saw you in a few years back. So glad Fallout wasn't cancelled; its such a great game franchise and has a great community that I'm happy to be apart of. All the best, Tim!
Would there have been a good way to find your worth to the company earlier in order to get higher compensation earlier? As a mentor, how would you recommend to someone to better identify and negotiate their market value? I also imagine there are plenty of people who overvalue their output, and others who are better at negotiating during hiring.
Great questions.
I would join neither of those 'camps' you claim there would be. My impression was simpler. Good job, Tim. You did right for yourself and at the same time you reached your goal and did it with no repercussions. Perfectly balanced on that mentioned knife's edge.
I'd really love to hear you take on the trajectory of the franchise as a whole- just personal opinion. From the first games through to the bethesda acquisition to the modern day. In terms of lore, tone, concepts, etc.
Thank god Interplay gave you that raise :)
I like your videos because they're not only good advice for designing a game, or how workplaces work, they're also indirectly life advice.
As an aspiring Game Dev, getting to hear stories from somebody who has been in the industry for 40 years for free is invaluable.
My experience is that a lot of the times the things that are completed on the knife's edge are often the ones that are the most deserving victories. A worse product, when it faces challenges that would be a potential cancellation, they'd just be canceled. But a great product with challenges has people to advocate for it and can inspire people to invest in something they would otherwise feel was too risky or difficult. A worse product, when it is given more resources than it needs and isn't ever concerned for failure gets filled with hubris and can never really pare down to the passion and vision. I think about fallout 1 vs fallout 2 and your stories. The number of potentially the wrong people who want to work on a successful sequel because it's a success, the number of people who want to be involved that really shouldn't because they want their name on something they just assume will be successful. This is why a lot of the most memorable games are scrappy unexpected successes. Because when you are on the knife's edge, the people who are retained are the people who truly see something great. You are forced to deal with the people who really cause a problem, you are forced to do the best with the people who you do have who might not be traditional superstars.
I loved the story, thanks :D My favorite part was you describing the neighbor's dog Jake :)
I'd like to thank you for these videos. I'm not even in the industry but you do help me to think about decisions like the one you just mentioned right there.
And as many people might have said here. I'm so glad things worked out and the game wasn't canceled. Hehe.
I admire your attitude and passion towards games, projects, people in your team, your own life goals. It all seems to go just with the same Tim Cain logic, there's no flaws in there of what these videos have told. I mean, I wish young people would watch these all from the beginning and learn a huge lessons about life in general.
Hey Tim, it's me, Dusty. Thanks for doing all these videos and sharing knowledge, motivation and inspiration. You single-handedly made me pick up GameDev as a hobby again, prototyping away and thinking about design pillars and trying to create interesting mechanics, or at least think them up. I was wondering if you have anything more to say about Fallout's Oblique Cavalier Perspective and the whole process or pipeline that was used for generating the ingame art and assets for the game?
What was the motivation behind going for Oblique Cavalier instead of traditional isometric perspective? Why the hex-grid? Was everything created in 3D-Software and then rendered to sprites? I'm pretty sure about that, but my point is: the classic Fallout games posses so much visual charm still to this day and much of this probably stems from working around the limitations of the time, but it would be pretty rad (no pun intended) to know how this was achieved back in the day, so it can be approximated more easily with modern tools.
I'm not very experienced with this as of now, but it seems like it's pretty difficult to set something like Oblique Cavalier up in current widespread software like Blender. Not gonna lie, I've just been trying to replicate some of Classic Fallout's visual aesthetic within Godot and Blender the last few days and it's not been easy, but a lot of fun and it keeps me learning and engaged. Appreciate any of your insight in how you might go about this today, or how it was done back in the day.
Have a nice day and thank you so for your work and videos!
I'm 29 and so, so close to my first house. Wish me luck...
that producer who said something to your boss, was another person who mightve single handedly saved fallout. The more stories I here the more I realize this almost never happened.
Long time fan here, it's great to hear your stories. Just wanted to say, I first played Fallout when I was 9 (clearly the target audience) and I like to think it shaped my humor in some way, and love for RPGs. I also loved The Outer Worlds, however I'm just wondering what seems to have happened with Spacers Choice edition? I haven't bought it - yet - but it hasn't had a great wrap. Any thoughts on what may have happened with the release?
I understand the logic of "I accepted a job at this pay, they didn't do anything wrong by paying me that amount", and it's surely correct (well, it should still be offset against inflation otherwise they're paying you less each year, but still). Even so, I think it's also a mindset that's very easy to set someone against themselves.
As an example: One my colleagues through the time at my company was a "single point of failure" for a core part of the business at a massive enterprise company. Nobody could do his job, few people could even understand it, but if he didn't do it, or left, or went under a bus, one of the most foundational products of the entire company just wouldn't work. And he was paid peanuts.
But because of that mentality, and a previous boss that had given him a terrible guilt trip about asking for a raise, he had the mindset of "If you need to ask for more money, then you should get a different job, you agreed to this job at this pay." And so he never said anything and never asked for more money.
And over time that core business was diminished as the market changed, and the company realised he was a single point of failure so other people were brought in and trained up in that section, and now he has a very hard time at salary reviews and barely has any leverage for asking for a raise. And inflation has chipped away at a huge part of that wage, and his mortage hasn't gone away.
A company lowballing someone and then giving the usual spiels about "Don't tell anyone we're paying you this much, they'll get jealous" is just capitalism, but it also does suck and I wish it didn't happen. That doesn't make Interplay bad, but it does mean they weren't acting in good faith.
Really curious about your opinion on underrail.
I know you said many times you are not allowed to release official patches because of the existing contracts with the producers... but would you ever consider releasing a fan mod for one of your games to include, fix or change content or mechanics the way you wanted to have done if you had the time?
Enjoying these videos Tim
was you ever approached to work on Fallout new vegas and what's your thoughts on that game?
thanks
Hey Tim can you talk a little more about Tyranny ? And there still hope for a sequal?
Yay more Tim you make our days 🥰
There is a 3rd radical interpretation. As the two radical interpretations aren't mutually exclusive. 😂
I do understand and applaud the call for nauance. From a writing standpoint, of telling a story, it is somewhat amusing to think of Tim as an entitled-jerk-victim that put his project at risk of being cancelled because a heartless company exploited him. Then it's almost like a Coen brothers movie :D
Great video as always!
Love your stories 💯
No I would do the same, this is very good advice for other people, work is not a charity and ppl should be compensated with proper salary.
its amazing that anything even gets made
Having got a house at 22, I was thrilled and thought I was ahead of the game. Being 30 now, I am wishing I never did 😂
11:40 wow. Very inspiring to see such responsibility for ones own actions.
I admire the amount of common sense in all your takes. What bothers me, however, is that it seems a person needs to be a real, honest-to-god genius to have reasonable views these days.
I was in a very similar situation.. I got a mysterious high raise at one salary meeting, once two people stopped at my work. I only achieved average pay, given my education, work and educational level...
In salary negotiation, you gotta lookout for yourself.
The moment you signed the paper, you bought the house.
It's very true that any game that survived till release is a miracle. And sometimes it's very sad to see how players easily bash them. Regarding the raise story - most companies these days still prohibit to discuss salaries within (on a contract level). So it all comes to an individual knowing their "price" and the current overall financial situation in the industry. Sometimes people just want certain jobs so much they are ready to work for food. And companies take advantage of it. Since it's business, managing costs for maintaining personnel is a part of it. Happy it all turned out well for you and Fallout (and everyone present here)!
Evening Timothy, do you happen to remember what was the name of the House buying guide?
I just got bored of that there is no good tv series or films to watch nowadays , then saw that Tim Cain finally tells his experience . Best think to watch right now :) Btw this is my opinion but i think i watched soo many other Role Play games and i think S.P.E.C.I.A.L (Strenght Perception Endurance Charisma Intelligence Agility Luck) is the best naming and can easly understandable .
Considering how influential Fallout ended up being as a game and a series, it's mind blowing to think about what the effects would have been of one guy saying "no we will not give you a raise" one time in 1995
I think the problem is that no one is at fault 😂 everyone is just trying to get what they can, and we need to commiserate to that and accept it without antagonizing people. because one day it would be us asking for, or denying the raise.
If this were one of your games, there would be a fourth way where I could blame both you AND Interplay 😉😂 Great video
Hey Tim, do you plan on coming to Gamescom 2023? Love to chat with you there
Management is management, its amazing how universal management is with pay.
It's the same with low and high paid jobs, only people who ask get pay rises.
Ive heard abt an emulator for Fallout that runs in Android devices. Anyone know if this is safe? Still need to get the ability to play the OGs
Thank you for telling all these amazing stories!
You already talked about the many influences in Fallout and that the first Wasteland was just one of them. So I wonder, would you say that Wasteland also kind of saved Fallout in that it had shown that a post-apocalyptic rpg had a viable niche in the gaming-market (beyond D&D)?
you should crowdfund a couple of billion bucks for a fallout online (even if it is named something else)....
Hi Tim hoping you will answer this how do you feel about fallout 4's depiction of power armour and how it compares to the original idea and vision of what power armour was meant to be love the channel please keep these videos coming
Do u still have the house
So are you filming in the house from your story or have you moved?
I wondered that too
I lived in that house for 25 years, before moving to Seattle 3 years ago.
I love Americans definitions of small and large houses. In the UK you are lucky if an affordable house has more than two rooms and can fit two people. You literally can't swing a cat, or a dog in this case (not that you should obviously 😊)
Bro you are so based👍 A Dnd game would probably have been forgotten.
Happy you got the house 🙂 and we got Fallout 🙂
I’m in the middle of trying to buy a place in Santa Ana, first home and this story really hits home
You"re a very gifted story teller, Tim.
I would like to hear some histories about the stick of truth. It seems to had a pretty different development compared to other games.
"Vastly underpaid"
Ironically a universal truth for most jobs. Nice guys who work hard always get shafted.
Guys who have lots of connections don't need to work much at all to still get paid more.