TOLKIEN UNBOXING: Silmarillion Illustrated Limited Edition & Comparison Tolkien Illustrated Edition
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2022
- Expert collector and life sentence bookseller Steve Andrews unboxes 2021's Ted Nasmith Illustrated Slipcased Limited Edition of Tolkien's 'The Silmarillion' and compares it with the standard trade of the same and with the new November 2022 quarter leather de luxe edition illustrated by JRRT himself (the first edition bearing only the great man's own graphic work). Looking at the printing history calls for more examination of the nature of limited edition publishing from mainstream trade publishers and how it clearly differs from the small presses....
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So based on comments here - and many thanks to those of you offering your own experiences with the number line on the Limited edition Nasmith- it does seem that HarperCollins have dropped the ball here. I will be writing to them for an explanation and will almost certainly do a quick video featuring any reply I receive. Cheers again, guys!
The issue of the First Print (number line I) is limited to 4000 copies was bought up with the publisher after the second printing appeared of this book, we asked them to remove the limitation details from the blurb, as it is confusing. I am not aware of any print numbers for the second and third printings of this edition, but assume that they would probably also be at least 4,000 copies. They stated that the text was correct and that the first printing(number line I) was 4,000 copies and because these editions are not limited, they have removed any text for future books (though not this edition) that mentions limited or a limitation number., an example is the new leather Deluxe Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion which are not limited and no longer described in any way as limited editions. Additionally a printing error occurred in the first printing of this deluxe and was corrected in the 2nd and 3rd printings.
The only true limited Tolkien edition that has come out recently was the Folio Society Lord of the Rings illustrated by Alan Lee, which was numbered and limited to 1,000 copies and sold out in less than 48 hours after going on sale.
@@Trotter_Tolkien -Thanks for your email, I'm reproducing it here for interested parties: I have posted some comments on your TH-cam videos about Tolkien Limited Editions, my forum name is Trotter, and I am a moderator on the Tolkien Collector’s Guide website, www.tolkienguide.com/
I am also a personal friend of the current Tolkien editors at HarperCollins and met them two weeks ago.
I have contacted them in the past about these editions being limited, and they have removed ‘limitation’ statements from new releases, as they are not limited and they will keep reprinting them while they have a demand from on-line stores, collectors and book-shops.
The Ted Nasmith Deluxe was issued as the first print was limited to 4,000 copies, which was technically true, but very misleading for people who got a 2nd or 3rd print of the book. As I said they agreed to remove any mention of limitation for later prints unless they really are limited, such as numbered edition.
You can find more information on the Ted Nasmith Deluxe edition on the forum at the Tolkien Collectors Guide, this is the discussion on the 3rd printing of the book www.tolkienguide.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=38503#forumpost38503
Glad to see someone understands what a chatbook is 👏✨️
I think you mean Chapbook.
Have a copy of your book, 100 Must Read Science Fictions Novels on order.
Looking forward to digging into it soon
Ive never been a fan, although i do have the utmost respect for Tolkien and his impact and influence on the genre.
I read the Hobbit first and never finiahed it... perhaps it had something to do with thw vagaries of my life at the time, idk.
I really ought to givehim a lnother go im sure his books deserve the attention.
I'm interested in Tolkien the phenomenon more than Tolkien the writer- as the latter, I feel he is quite overrated.
Beautiful editions all. I'm sorry that I can't help you with identifying your "III" as a first, as I stopped collecting Tolkien years ago. It is an industry unto itself, and am astonished that it seems to be not only persisting but also picking up steam. From an investment perspective, I don't think they offer the greatest value but they are attractive objects just to have in your collection. Great content as usual.
As I bought these primarily for their looks as we say, and owning hundreds of true firsts, I'm not too bothered, but it does create issues for collectors, especially inexperienced ones. It is amazing as you say how the Tolkien cult keeps growing, but I'll cover this in an upcoming video - my last on JRRT- and how my own feelings about his work currently might be common ones in building the following.
I have loved Tolkein since a kid. I live in Australia.
With the events of the past few years unfolding in relation to the global health crisis, I fell down the rabbit hole of building out my library and collecting some really beautiful books including collecting Tolkein.
As someone new to this Tolkein collecting game I have to say it has been extraordinarily challenging. Challenges I have not faced with other book titles and mostly coming from book dealers. I have experienced everything from absolutly no help at all, no responses to emails or messages to being blatantly rude and obnoxious. This all stems from asking for photographs of the book I am buying. Requesting photographs of the copyright page to ensure what I am buying is a genuine first printing or impression and for me even more importantly... not printed and bound in China. I have found so many Tolkein books printed in China. Of course the argument is that the books are sealed in plastic and cannot be photographed and I just have to take my chances. I have had enormous battles with eBay and dealers who have misrepresented a book as a first edition only to find it is the 17th edition and they won't accept it back and eBay won't force a refund because the plastic wrap has been removed. How are you supposed to ensure the book is as described if you don't remove the plastic and check..? I won't talk about here the mould issues with books stored long term sealed in plastic (because that's what collectors want.!?)... or re-shrinkwraped and advertised as being in the original plastic and once the plastic is removed it reveals serious damage hidden in the photographs by the plastic wrap. I have found the whole thing such a vicious hornets nest of lies and deceit attached to the huge postage delays and costs, I have all but given up on trying to collect from Australia.
Most of the private sellers I have dealt with have been wonderful. Just need to find them...
yes, it can be a huge minefield, I feel for you. I'm very experienced in all this for decades as you can see and I only work with dealers I've tried and tested. Trouble with collecting a writer as popular as JRRT is that it's such a money-making thing you get all kinds of sharks involved. Best of luck with your future collecting!
That's a lovely thing. Absolutely beautiful book. Also a sucker for cloth and slipcase here. I'd also be peeved by it not being a 1st. Hopefuly some of your viewers have a copy and let you know what theirs says. Enjoyed the video as usual. Cheers.
Yes, the printing history detail completely undermines the idea of this being a true limited first- but then HarperCollins could argue that in their use of the term 'edition', they are referring to variant presentation and content, which would be correct in my interpretation too. This is why collectors and publishers should use the term 'first printing' or 'first impression' rather than first edition to fit the collecting model. I still think it's lovely though!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal No book here is limited edition, stop saying they are.
They kept making prints after the first 4000 but they kept the "Limited to 4000 copies" so misleading marketing. Unfortunately you do not have the original 4000 that were printed. If you have a first print then I guess you can say you have "1 out of 4000" that were first printed but thats it. But I agree with you in that the printing of these books matters when collecting. I always mention which printing I have when I describe my collection
Obviously, having worked in the industry for almost 40 years I can identify a true first easily, so it is either as you say - misleading marketing- or (more likely in my view), a failure on their part to understand that the collecting convention for a true limited is one print run, not several. Thanks for your experience on this, I may well write to HarperCollins on this and express some unhappiness.
I have both of the Nasmiths. Because of reasons. My Deluxe has the Roman numeral III on the publication info page.
Thanks for that Michael. Still gathering data on this here, so that's useful to know.
I have the Deluxe Orange Cloth bound Silmarillion, I was lucky to buy it from an eBay seller last year for just over £30 brand new and sealed , in the page where you have your Roman Numeral III, I have a single I year of printing is 2021 .
Thanks for that. So it looks like you have a true first impression/printing, so a true first 'edition' thus of the book. I think they are were all printed in 2021 and are from different printruns for technical/cost reasons. The IV in my standard trade edition may indicate this too, as the text block of the book is identical in both 'limited' and 'trade' editions, it's just the binding that differs.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal yes I have not been luckily with some of rhe harper Collins deluxe editions , and do wish that they would change where hey are printed from Italy Rotolito , as last year with lord or the rings quarter bound leather I had 25 blank pages on first copy then I got a second copy that two had issues namely pages still.attached at the corners , and the red ribbon also not attached . Fast forward to this year and the Deluxe Silmarillion having issues the silver print on the spine almost faded and the silver sprayed edges looking as though a knife has been drawn across the page taking some of the silver gilt with it . I maybe naive here but I consider , given the price point of these books as over £100 you expect it to come to you flawlessly , hence I have contacted Harper Collins and I am.getting a replacement copy . Also the fall of Numeaor deluxe edition I have seen with issues and it seems more prolific with Tolkien books at harper Collins lately.
@@heydon2012 -Yes, I've heard other stories like this too. Again, a small press wouldn't get away with this for a second!
Mine, which I bought in November 2021, has a 2, so I guess it's a second printing. Really beautiful book though.
Thanks for this- it is a gorgeous production job, it has to be said!
Wonderful video.
I can understand why you were peeved, expecting a first printing. Did you ever get the issue sorted out?
I do so love Tolkien. I've read Vance and Lieber and Howard ,and their like, and have enjoyed their early imaginative vision and influence; but I must say that Tolkien has always remained head-and-shoulders above them in my mind. It's his prose, I suppose, that keeps me coming back. There's a beauty to it that I find lacking from the pulp authors, to say nothing about the clarity of his descriptions. I wonder if his work on the Oxford Dictionary and his love of language is the reason for that? I am also continuously astonished at his depth of story, how layered it is, and how complex and layered his characters actually are (despite how some disparage them as mere archetypes.)
Can you tell that I am a fan? Must stop gushing praise now.
Thanks for you in depth comparison.
Cheers David- no, I never got a First, but I can cope. I have to admit that Sword & Sorcery trumps JRRT for me on a fundamental level, though I appreciate Tolkien more these days- but Vance at his best (Dying Earth series) for me has a level of irony and wit that is simply not a Tolkien thing...guess that says a lot about me! As a phenomenon, however, JRRT remains unsurpassed....
My printing of all three is a first. I pre-ordered, so that might have something to do with it.
Yes, you are more likely to get a true first if you place pre-publication orders, good for you. For me these were more casual pick ups, but it's quite disappointing work from Harcol on this front. Many thanks for posting your experience here.
As a recent Tolkien book buyer, I have to say how unimpressed I am with the Harper Collins website. I expected such a well known seller of such iconic books would be a little more professional, a little more class to it. But there's constant pop-ups asking for subscription, a constant little pop-up on the left that makes a wheel of fortune style spinning wheel pop up so you can spin and see if you've won a discount code. The whole thing feels cheap and tacky, and I honestly wondered if I was on the right site the first time I browsed there.
All this is fairly typical of the generic approach of the major corporate publishers- their websites are always pretty bad, not deisgned by bookish people.
Sorry to bother you again, but I was so incensed by Harper Collins's lack of knowledge in this matter that I emailed again
"Our Tolkien team have advised us The printers make the changes to the impression number when the books are reprinted, and it appears that this particular printer in Italy mistook the non-lining 1 for an I and have been updating these particular numbers with Roman numerals. They were unaware of this and do not personally get copies of all the reprints. They have now asked that the printers ensure that they use conventional numbering for future impressions, per the Harper Collins house style.
Please accept our apologies for any confusion this has caused."
So, lets hope they are true to form and change things , hope you dont mind me sharing this
Not at all, it's good to hear all the detail. I was discussing the Roman numeral thing today with another book trade insider (Jules Burt, who has a fabulous YT channel, we used to work together and collab sometimes) and he agreed this was very odd.
Thanks. Subscribed. One question! Is the map of Beleriand in the Tolkien illustrated deluxe definitely bigger? the map not just the paper? (I see there's some blank white to the right and left of the Tolkien illustrated deluxe one) . Still weighing up which to get so it would be a big help to defo know which has the bigger map
Thanks!
The blue slipcase one? Confirm and I'll dig it out....
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Yes sorry the blue please. Thank you. I didn’t get a notification!
Could I get a link for where to get the 2022 silmarillion deluxe? I can’t seem to find it anywhere
If you look on the channel page in uploads on a PC, it should be easy to find as it's only a week or so ago, but here it is th-cam.com/video/jb69_wjNQ2A/w-d-xo.html cheers!
Hello I would like , if I may to add that I have just bought the 60th anniversary edition of the lord of the rings, and this was first published by Harper Collins in 2014 , yet when I open up my edition , it displays what I think to be the Roman Numeral II , I find this puzzling that this book would be in its second printing since it’s been several years since 2014 , so what Harper Collins are doing here I don’t know
It's a sales thing: there's no guarantee that that edition sold beyond its second printing, alternatively, it could be that your copy was sitting in a warehouse/bookshop/whereever for several years before you bought it. Speaking as a bookseller, I don't see that as mysterious to be honest.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal ok , thankyou , this book was bought direct from Harper Collins
You mentioned that the orange limited edition is cloth bound. Is the standard trade edition of the Silmarillion in your video cloth bound too or is it paper bound?
No, the standard edition is boards. A paperbound book would be a paperback, not a hardcover.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thanks so much for educating me on that. Appreciate the prompt reply.
Very misleading marketing. I'm fairly sure that it is actually an Illustrated Deluxe Edition, with a limited first printing of 4,000 copies. If true, there will undoubtedly be any number of printings - which for such an attractive book is no bad thing.
I think it's a classic example of a major publisher having some staff who are not fully schooled in how to manufacture, present and promote a true first impression for collectors- and collecting convention is pretty much focused on first printings (or first editions as many erroneously say- which is why I tend to say 'first' when referring to books I know are first printings). It is nice when a handsome edition stays in print, but in my long experience of dealing with big publishers, I can recall instances as far back as the early 90s where their office staff, clearly untrained in identifying even their own first printings, send me signed copies of second printings to sell to collectors as 'firsts'. This situation in publishing and bookselling, where professionals are not schooled in collecting standards, is obviously not a cool situation!
As you say, it is an illustrated de luxe edition and they've stated clearly that it's limited, but to fit this description, all 4000 copies should bear the number '1' on the colophon or the roman numeral 'I' indicating the number one. The lowest number being a 2 or 3 here, or a higher roman numeral than 'I' indicates a reprint. Not good.
See, I've never heard of any of these being limited edition.
In my experience, if an item is limited edition, then each and every copy is individually numbered.
That has not happened to a Tolkien book since The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun came out: the highest-tier one was limited to 500 copies.
Mine says 2.
Some more information regarding editions has come to light, The 2004 Hobbit was originally printed by L.E.G.O Italy , and that had an I to mark it as a first edition, first printing, then years later the printing went To Rotolito Italy, and it appears that the edition numbers were reset and all editions printed by Rotolito had the I in front of them. Lots of people have been trying to tell me that II means an eleventh edition.
Well, they clearly don't understand roman numerals. Two II's indicates second printing of the first edition of this variant. Edition strictly speaking refers to content, so should this variant have a revised text/binding/content, then it becomes a second edition. It's just that collectors have erroneously used 'edition' when they should use 'first printing' or 'first impression'. Thanks for your input!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal As the debate has not been satisfied on my posting of inside my copy of the 60th Anniversary of the Lord of The Rings has gone on, to try and put an end to the matter I reached out to Harper Collins themselves, now I have heard back from their Tolkien team, I will if you don't mind share their official response
"I’m afraid we don’t have a first impression to hand, but I suspect that this is the eleventh impression. The non-lining numerals in the font (see for example the ones in the years 1954 etc. further down the same page) look like Roman “I”s rather than Arabic “1”s, which is potentially the source of the confusion. We do not to my knowledge ever denote impressions using Roman numerals. The appearance of the Ireland address at the top of the page also indicates to me that this book was printed after 2019, which was when we started adding an Ireland address to our copyright pages. "
@@heydon2012 Many thanks for this. The use of Roman numerals in a number line is virtually unknown, I agree. However, I think HarperCollins are wrong - back in the early 90s (when I ran a signed first editions club for a major bookselling company) I dealt with all the major UK houses on a regular basis and they would often supply second printings- Random House and Transworld were two publishers I recall having to explain the number line system to- and then, standards in these things were generally much higher than they are now. My 'limited' has III (three Roman Numerals) indicating three- if HarperCollins were correct in this, it would be the one hundred and eleventh printing, which is clearly nonsense. So they must be Roman numerals, but as they say 'they never use roman numerals' this must be printer's choice as arabic numbers are standard. But there is now way the Nasmith illustrated Silm in orange cloth has been reprinted 111 times. Thanks for yr input.
None of the books here are limited edition.
The issues around this are covered in pinned posts and comments on the channel below my recent Tolkien videos.
for me, the Silmarillion is unreadable. maybe that's the reason why Tolkien (JRR not C) did not see it fit to be published during his lifetime.
It is a tough text, but that's not why it wasn't published while JRRT was alive: he wanted it published alongside LOTR in the mid-50s, but Unwin were not keen and it wasn't really finished when he died. In fact, there were several Silmarillions and no definitive final text.
He tinkered with it for decades and the final published version was stitched together by his son Christopher. As a high street/mail order/online bookseller with 38 years experience, I can confirm that it may be a tough read, but that it sells very well constantly and always has done.