@@ElderWillows Allmost all classes have winrate >50% expet fire , are you idiot? If you have 10 classes , 5 of them have 55% wintate average , another 5 must have 45% winrate average .
COMPLETELY agree, I don't understand why people call the game dead. I'm flat out hooked on the game again. The balance feels pretty good all things considering unless you're a fire mage.
The que times are why Its dead. And like the game is kinda dead… theres literally no low lvl pvp anymore! 9 years ago when I played the game was full of pvpers on every bracket!!! Now u can only pvp at max lvl…..
I am too addicted but the reality is that the ques are dead. I waited 40 min for a que one time at 1800 rating where its supposed to be the bulk of pvp. Its ridiculous.
People that complain about ret being easy and op are the same people that cant break 1800. There isnt a ret on the ladder past 2200 that isnt using their kit and is just “smashing keys.” If they are then they are dying and getting flamed by their team. simple as that.
@ id bet you couldn’t play ret to even a 2200 rating. and if u think ret has always been op that tells me u are either delusional or not a very high rated player in general.
@@stoneblood9864 Quit the cope. The only people who think Ret is difficult or not op are Ret mains. DH mains say the same. Wishful thinking won’t make your spec a high skill spec.
@@Nakerox-st7fk I mean warriors are one of the simplest classes you don’t gotta worry about cc you don’t gotta worry about your party you just gotta stay on top of the kill target and do as much damage as possible. That and it hits really hard.
Sadly, being main subtlety rogue, I'm not going to enjoy the next patch. My problem isn't the removal of shadowy duel, in fact I think it's a good decision, the problem is that they've given us literally nothing in return. In the patch notes all the specs have tons of changes, and rogue only 4 lines, 3 of them nerfs. I feel it's very unfair that we never get any new changes or talents, we also want to enjoy the game like everyone else. I don't understand how hunter got a bible of changes for the new patch being bm so popular and strong, and instead subtlety gets nothing being one of the least played specs in arena. I don't feel like it's a good time to come back to WoW. I don't know if it's different in NA, but at least in EU there's no inflation, in blitz my MMR didn't increase even 50 points in 2 weeks without playing, and a streak of 4 losses was enough to lose more than 100 MMR, it feels impossible to climb. I hope Blizzard adds artificial inflation soon, for now my MMR doesn't increase, sometimes it even goes down when I win.
It's the queu times Supa, do you not feel them or what? you queu with multiple accounts and it feels like a 5-10 min for you that way or? Which is fine for me, but ppl with 1 account are sitting 30min queu's if not longer. And if you play healer, you get a nice queu but you end up playing 3-3 lobby's for hours and gain 0 rating. I agree the game is fun, and i like all classes and all that, but the queu times ... the goddamn queu times!!!! Merry Xmass
Biggest problem still is the ridiculous wait on Que times for the average player base. A lot of the players who started player wow on its inception have aged and have things outside of wow that require their time so sitting in long ques is a turn off and even those who don’t have things to focus on would prob prefer things with little to no ques
BM Hunter being top pick for some time - Blizz: naah, its fine, arcane mage +1% pick rate - Blizz; oh nooooooooooo, my God! this spec need immediate nerfs!!!!
Blizzard is failing us. Ques are still broken. Nerfing already bad specs.. they don’t listen and don’t care. January 20th is the end of my sub and if ques aren’t fixed it’s staying off
@@tony9526 True, so obvious blizz got fav kids and dont care about others, there is bunch of classes which get way way more love then others, annoying as fck....
My affliction lock in solo shuffle: get trained by double melee until dead. Every game. Yes I use ports and gateways. All the tricks. Melee has WAY too many ways of closing the cap.
@@husky7292 I play Shadowpriest and I have the same experience for sure. I however, see this as the ultimate training ground for dealing with melee. If you can get good in this patch, you'll steamroll your competition in future patches.
Not even close to being op barely even works has 0 mobility and having semi ranged spells does not make up for it how yall think it does. past 1700 you’re getting owned in solo shuffle if you’re trained all game by a warrior or kited all game by range. Templar has decent burst but hits like a noodle outside of it herald of the sun has survivability and sustained damage but no kill button what so ever… trust me all i play is pally its not what yall think. Also worst as in skillwise is completely false you have to be able to use the utility correctly if you dont your wins will stop at 1800.
Frost DK has amazing burst and cleave but os very easy to focus down, given the healer disparity right now classes that are reliant on healer support are struggling more than they should. If the fix healers i promise you the game will shift to a melee meta
That BM hunter representation is not ok, they need to be nerfed both defensively and offensively and yet blizz is planning to buff them next patch... This is disgusting, and I say that as someone who has a fully geared BM hunter, I just don't want to feel like I have to only play it or I'm kneecapping myself. When you have an outlier of that magnitude it's clear balance is not good, period.
What rating is your bm hunter? I play at 2500 and not only are people very good at controlling pets, interupting and dropping barbed stacks, but they also blow me up quite easily. That being said, there is matches where i can kite for days. But thats how it goes. Some are in your favor and some are a counter. When people play better there are weaknesses they exploit on bm. When MM was strong it was way easier. Lower rating people tend to leave bm hunters alone making wins easy inflating their rating at 1800+
@@Mike-Rxtx the weaknesses youre talking about are the same weaknesses every class in the game has. the difference every other aspect of the class is way too strong and easy to pull off.
@ constant bof absolutely not it usually gets taken and dispelled immediately anyway or you just get stunned AGAIN and now you got 25 seconds of getting kited by a bm hunter you will never touch because you are slowed that whole 30+ yd range ya right. What ends up happening is you hsve to blow all of your defense cds to even catch up if you can even do that much youll most likely die after lay on hands and bubble you wont be able to bop just gotta take advantage of the talent that allows bubble through feberance. Turtle shell that damage then back to kiting you bof again tranq shot then you are back slowed and kited..
Feral Druid is still nice but it’s definitely not what it was if you don’t perfectly time interrupts and stuns healers just feel immortal at least good ones do. Then you have to come out of forms to cast cyclone and if they catch you out of form it’s gg if they train you your stuck in bear form where’s there’s almost no damage you can do. Idk snupy make it look easy but it is probably one of the highest skill ceilings in my opinion.
I think you ought to take those numbers with a grain a of salt. Since you are declaring win rates with a low Representation sample and it would really give a false sense of what is good or not since many high rated player have like 20 of their main class to play when they get bored of queues they always have a low CR toon. I mean you can get a big win ratio like Aug Evos but you expect that to be true since the sample is low and people playing them are die hard try hards(No offense I admire your effort) or really high rated players on another toon having fun. As for the most played classes they should be closer to 50% with a larger sample size.
I only have time to pvp on my main and being balance Druid is a joke in arena. We have been the primary target for months now and still nothing. Even in blitz cannot get higher than 2k. There’s always imbalance but when specs have been struggling for months it’s time to do something. Not playing arena anymore and unlikely to return. And RBGs Blizz still cannot ban Russian premades so that is a joke too. Blizz has a lot of work to do if they want people like me to return.
Easy to play specs being amongst the strongest feels bad and kills my interest in the game. BM Hunters, Ret Paladins, Fury Warriors, etc. are so boring to play against I'd rather just not play if they're the meta.
@@RoachehhI’m not a high rated player. I don’t play rated pvp that much, but I feel like if you’re pushing to 2k just spamming high dps that kind of feels bad too. Ret pally does feel very face roll
Supa, my friend. Lately this type of analysis You make IMHO doesnt hit the spot. Just cuz spec is played, it doesnt rlly mean how good it is. Go watch skillcapped latest tier list. UH DK is THE WORST melee in game atm, by FAR! Yet still quite lotta ppl play it, cuz its simply cool You know? Arthas stuff, necromancer vibe and so on. On the other hand WW is just one of the least lore and style apealing class to play, still its MEGA represented in contrary (cuz its broken stronk). My point is, You are missing a variable in this type of analysis by taking in mind just general willingness to play certain spec (reasons may be multiple).
If everyone has a win rate more than 50% - how is this possible? Where are those who have less than 50% to compensate this.
Wait for the Caster Video, lol
Because there are multiple classes and it's based on that classes winrate vs all classes not 1 for 1? It's not that deep.
@@ElderWillows Allmost all classes have winrate >50% expet fire , are you idiot? If you have 10 classes , 5 of them have 55% wintate average , another 5 must have 45% winrate average .
@@Михайло-д2п Lol
@@Михайло-д2п imagine: having class A, B, C. A wins B, A loses C, B wins C.... All have 50% winrate, right?
They need to fix healer disparity.
3:08 there's TONS of the bloody token leather gear for dh, they have a great staring off point with that
Merry Christmas SupaSanta...hope you had a nice one.
Merry Xmas all
Nice to see more Arms warriors. So much nostalgia
I'm a firm believer that arms warrior is one of those key classes that needs to be good for the game to feel right, like mage/rogue
@@Urbrainongaming warriors deserve nothing but losses, skill less garen class with auto targeted dashes, cringe
@@angrygun7826what is garen?
@@angrygun7826isn’t anymore toxic than frost mage or dev evoker
@@angrygun7826 tf is garen?
Great Video Supa, question, are we still really calling Ret a melee? at this point they are plate casters
COMPLETELY agree, I don't understand why people call the game dead.
I'm flat out hooked on the game again. The balance feels pretty good all things considering unless you're a fire mage.
The que times are why Its dead. And like the game is kinda dead… theres literally no low lvl pvp anymore! 9 years ago when I played the game was full of pvpers on every bracket!!! Now u can only pvp at max lvl…..
I am too addicted but the reality is that the ques are dead. I waited 40 min for a que one time at 1800 rating where its supposed to be the bulk of pvp. Its ridiculous.
It's definitely not dead, it is undeniably in the lowest lows of playerbase ever however.
People are being hyperbolic
@@ElderWillows yeah so dead lol
wtf is a frost Druid bro
I feel like I'm getting gaslighted.
Game is...Too fast, deflated, long Qs, smash head on keyboard meta.
Merry Christmas
People that complain about ret being easy and op are the same people that cant break 1800. There isnt a ret on the ladder past 2200 that isnt using their kit and is just “smashing keys.” If they are then they are dying and getting flamed by their team. simple as that.
Ret has always been easy and op, the only people who say otherwise are ret mains who wish the spec required any high skill
@ id bet you couldn’t play ret to even a 2200 rating. and if u think ret has always been op that tells me u are either delusional or not a very high rated player in general.
@@stoneblood9864 Quit the cope. The only people who think Ret is difficult or not op are Ret mains. DH mains say the same. Wishful thinking won’t make your spec a high skill spec.
@@wyraven if its easy then prove it, hit 2400 on ret and get back to me
i just started playing ret and i hit 2250 without using all my buttons or even knowing what half my talents do...
This graph means that 25% of melees are warrior? Great balance
@@Nakerox-st7fk I mean warriors are one of the simplest classes you don’t gotta worry about cc you don’t gotta worry about your party you just gotta stay on top of the kill target and do as much damage as possible. That and it hits really hard.
Where can I see these stats so I can share them?
Sadly, being main subtlety rogue, I'm not going to enjoy the next patch. My problem isn't the removal of shadowy duel, in fact I think it's a good decision, the problem is that they've given us literally nothing in return. In the patch notes all the specs have tons of changes, and rogue only 4 lines, 3 of them nerfs.
I feel it's very unfair that we never get any new changes or talents, we also want to enjoy the game like everyone else. I don't understand how hunter got a bible of changes for the new patch being bm so popular and strong, and instead subtlety gets nothing being one of the least played specs in arena.
I don't feel like it's a good time to come back to WoW. I don't know if it's different in NA, but at least in EU there's no inflation, in blitz my MMR didn't increase even 50 points in 2 weeks without playing, and a streak of 4 losses was enough to lose more than 100 MMR, it feels impossible to climb.
I hope Blizzard adds artificial inflation soon, for now my MMR doesn't increase, sometimes it even goes down when I win.
Yeah I wish they’d do something to replace shadowy duel. I feel like it’s the only way to win against healer comps in 2s
I'm smelling pally nerfs
mostly because I'm leveling one
Hahahah yes same to me
Why would i play a complicated feral druid when i can faceroll with ret, dh, warrior ???? Dk ??? Lol
Exactly, and to have fun in process
Feral is complicated but can do better than all those you described. If you just wanna press W, then yeah, those will give you better results
It's the queu times Supa, do you not feel them or what? you queu with multiple accounts and it feels like a 5-10 min for you that way or? Which is fine for me, but ppl with 1 account are sitting 30min queu's if not longer. And if you play healer, you get a nice queu but you end up playing 3-3 lobby's for hours and gain 0 rating. I agree the game is fun, and i like all classes and all that, but the queu times ... the goddamn queu times!!!! Merry Xmass
Would be cool if Blitz was included in these PvP analyses considering it’s the second most popular bracket
Biggest problem still is the ridiculous wait on Que times for the average player base. A lot of the players who started player wow on its inception have aged and have things outside of wow that require their time so sitting in long ques is a turn off and even those who don’t have things to focus on would prob prefer things with little to no ques
BM Hunter being top pick for some time - Blizz: naah, its fine, arcane mage +1% pick rate - Blizz; oh nooooooooooo, my God! this spec need immediate nerfs!!!!
Blizzard is failing us. Ques are still broken. Nerfing already bad specs.. they don’t listen and don’t care. January 20th is the end of my sub and if ques aren’t fixed it’s staying off
@@tony9526same. Too many ppl left pvp. Normal 3s almost impossible to find mates. :(
@@tony9526 True, so obvious blizz got fav kids and dont care about others, there is bunch of classes which get way way more love then others, annoying as fck....
As a ret main, your ret breakdown was spot on 😂
For shuffle it’s literally only melee lobbies. I’m trying to push on my warlock and it’s probably the worst push I’ve done this entire season.
My affliction lock in solo shuffle: get trained by double melee until dead. Every game. Yes I use ports and gateways. All the tricks. Melee has WAY too many ways of closing the cap.
@@husky7292 I play Shadowpriest and I have the same experience for sure. I however, see this as the ultimate training ground for dealing with melee. If you can get good in this patch, you'll steamroll your competition in future patches.
as lock you have at least port, portals, coil, stun, spam fear...Sp has shit
Good thing there's a ton of evokers.
lol why does it say "Hunter - Subtelty" at the top of this chart
Because it says "still working on the bugs on this page" but the fact you only caught one mistake ... 😂
Ret is OP and 99% of people who play ret are the worst of the worst skillwise lol
Same with fury wars. Dudes started to play yesterday and they r on 1.9. All they do is tunnel and if they have pocket heal it works.
thats exactly what they said about DH when we were godly with our leech. Clueless toxic wow community.
@@bashafacin bro, DH was broken at start lol
its not op, u just suck
Not even close to being op barely even works has 0 mobility and having semi ranged spells does not make up for it how yall think it does. past 1700 you’re getting owned in solo shuffle if you’re trained all game by a warrior or kited all game by range. Templar has decent burst but hits like a noodle outside of it herald of the sun has survivability and sustained damage but no kill button what so ever… trust me all i play is pally its not what yall think. Also worst as in skillwise is completely false you have to be able to use the utility correctly if you dont your wins will stop at 1800.
Frost DK has amazing burst and cleave but os very easy to focus down, given the healer disparity right now classes that are reliant on healer support are struggling more than they should. If the fix healers i promise you the game will shift to a melee meta
That BM hunter representation is not ok, they need to be nerfed both defensively and offensively and yet blizz is planning to buff them next patch... This is disgusting, and I say that as someone who has a fully geared BM hunter, I just don't want to feel like I have to only play it or I'm kneecapping myself.
When you have an outlier of that magnitude it's clear balance is not good, period.
One of the PvP devs is a hunter main so I don’t see that happening unfortunately
What rating is your bm hunter? I play at 2500 and not only are people very good at controlling pets, interupting and dropping barbed stacks, but they also blow me up quite easily. That being said, there is matches where i can kite for days. But thats how it goes. Some are in your favor and some are a counter. When people play better there are weaknesses they exploit on bm.
When MM was strong it was way easier.
Lower rating people tend to leave bm hunters alone making wins easy inflating their rating at 1800+
@@Mike-Rxtx the weaknesses youre talking about are the same weaknesses every class in the game has. the difference every other aspect of the class is way too strong and easy to pull off.
Yes it’s ok ignore this whale lol
Same for night elf. For example playing anything but Nelf as a Rogue is kneecapping urself
play some dh
4 set havoc with all conq verse Mastery or crafted pieces is the move.
People saying ret is op lol i can’t wait till theu finish leveling one have fun getting kited forever trust me its not what u think
Kited forever with 30+ yd ranged and constant BoF 😢
@ constant bof absolutely not it usually gets taken and dispelled immediately anyway or you just get stunned AGAIN and now you got 25 seconds of getting kited by a bm hunter you will never touch because you are slowed that whole 30+ yd range ya right. What ends up happening is you hsve to blow all of your defense cds to even catch up if you can even do that much youll most likely die after lay on hands and bubble you wont be able to bop just gotta take advantage of the talent that allows bubble through feberance. Turtle shell that damage then back to kiting you bof again tranq shot then you are back slowed and kited..
Feral Druid is still nice but it’s definitely not what it was if you don’t perfectly time interrupts and stuns healers just feel immortal at least good ones do. Then you have to come out of forms to cast cyclone and if they catch you out of form it’s gg if they train you your stuck in bear form where’s there’s almost no damage you can do. Idk snupy make it look easy but it is probably one of the highest skill ceilings in my opinion.
Probably still the best 1v1 spec tho tbh
I would never really invest into frost just because it might be decent now but just trash later.
LITERALLY FIX THE MMR AND PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO PLAY 😢
Bm =housewife fotm class
Havok DH is only making a coming back because of anticipation for the 11.1 rework... Mark my words havok is going to be a top contender in 11.1
Survival fell off cuz in dragonflight it was wayyyy danker
I think you ought to take those numbers with a grain a of salt. Since you are declaring win rates with a low Representation sample and it would really give a false sense of what is good or not since many high rated player have like 20 of their main class to play when they get bored of queues they always have a low CR toon. I mean you can get a big win ratio like Aug Evos but you expect that to be true since the sample is low and people playing them are die hard try hards(No offense I admire your effort) or really high rated players on another toon having fun. As for the most played classes they should be closer to 50% with a larger sample size.
frost dk is crazy.
Feral is just so squishy now
Enh…. You might not be playing feral right sir
Is this a troll comment. Cause if it is funny. If not.. i don't think it's feral that's the problem...
I think it is funny how Supa is gaslighting people telling people rogue class is playable or competitive
I only have time to pvp on my main and being balance Druid is a joke in arena. We have been the primary target for months now and still nothing. Even in blitz cannot get higher than 2k. There’s always imbalance but when specs have been struggling for months it’s time to do something. Not playing arena anymore and unlikely to return. And RBGs Blizz still cannot ban Russian premades so that is a joke too. Blizz has a lot of work to do if they want people like me to return.
Easy to play specs being amongst the strongest feels bad and kills my interest in the game. BM Hunters, Ret Paladins, Fury Warriors, etc. are so boring to play against I'd rather just not play if they're the meta.
All ret got was a buff to eye for an eye what tuning are you talking about 🤣🤣
I feel like ret paladin isn’t actually a beginner class, if you don’t play any support you are going to lose and get flamed by your teammates.
100% ... the damage only will get you to maybe 2k but after that if you aren't utilising your full kit you aint pushing any higher
@@RoachehhI’m not a high rated player. I don’t play rated pvp that much, but I feel like if you’re pushing to 2k just spamming high dps that kind of feels bad too. Ret pally does feel very face roll
@@ChdDr. It might have been an oversimplification but to reach 2k its pretty easy.
Just delete every other healer. The game forces you to play disc
Supa, my friend. Lately this type of analysis You make IMHO doesnt hit the spot. Just cuz spec is played, it doesnt rlly mean how good it is. Go watch skillcapped latest tier list. UH DK is THE WORST melee in game atm, by FAR! Yet still quite lotta ppl play it, cuz its simply cool You know? Arthas stuff, necromancer vibe and so on. On the other hand WW is just one of the least lore and style apealing class to play, still its MEGA represented in contrary (cuz its broken stronk).
My point is, You are missing a variable in this type of analysis by taking in mind just general willingness to play certain spec (reasons may be multiple).
Yeah I liquid dated all my stuff and bought wow tokens anniversary edition classic is a lot more entertaining then random buff and nerf aimulator.
We will see you back on retail once classic dies out like it did last time
First
Okay