Thanks for this. Was waiting on some real life usage reviews of the Z6III. There's a loss in DR, but gains in other aspects. But still far, far better than my current entry level DSLR 😄 Low ISO performance looks excellent. Still planning on getting one.
This weeks ATS finally convince me to pull the trigger on the Zf as my second body. Thanks Hudson. Also purchased the Voigtlander 50 f1 and 35 f2 APO. What a joy to use kit, just helps me to slow down and enjoy the photography process and art.
Thanks for making this well thought-out video. We are a Zf, Z8, & Z9 household. Couldn't find a purpose in owning the Z6iii, where would it fit? I also enjoy shooting the Zf. Was initially intrigued by the new viewfinder on the Z6iii, and the lack of a CF express card on the Zf has always bugged me. But trade in the Zf toward a Z6iii? No way! Thanks again for this informative video.
Thanks for the testing and commentary. Nuanced but real differences, yet in the end both great for a lot of things ... what a great time to be a photographer! Hope all is well.
I love my Nikon Zf because it a great family/street camera and, lets be real, its beautiful! It pairs so nicely with my Nikon film SLRs, which I still shoot. I absolutely love experimenting with my old MF Nikkor/ Minolta glass and modern Voigtlander, Pergear, Viltrox Z mounts etc Its just a fun camera. I don’t shoot video, so other than improved ergonomics for my giant 3X sized hands, I was skeptical I could justify to my spouse the purchase of a new camera. Going to spent much much less $ to get the Viltrox 75mm f1.2 for my other family shooter, the Zfc. I have seen your positive comments on that lens, in a prior video. Great comparison, as always.
This video was just lovely comparing the scientific results with real world usage. Mt Saint Helens is an amazing landscape, I really need to make the trek out there again. Congrats you got a new subscriber.
Except that the first note on the charts reads: "These raw values are not apropriate for comparing camera models because they are not adjusted for gain or area". So much of a sciende.
I sold my Z6II and am loving myZ6III. The IBIS and new video capabilities are great for what I typically do. It makes a pretty good backup to the Z9 for wildlife. I had to depend on it for a couple of weeks while Nikon Service had my Z9 in for service. I think it is a great camera for lots of folks. I agree with your assessment!
My cousin got the ZF. I thought I would love it but hated the smallness. Got the Z6III and it is much more suited to my style. Great video, birds are Waxwings :)
I now own the Voigtlander 50 f/1 and it's glued to my Zf, and I for wider stuff I got the Voigtlander 35 f/2 APO and for the stuff I do this is all I need. Terrific kit and 50 f/1 is one of the finest, if not the finest, lens I've ever owned, and I've owned all of them.
@@omnicognatesnr5947 There's also a 50 f2 APO, really sharp lens and it's smaller and lighter than the 50 f1, I got the Voigtlander 40 1.2 and later the Zeiss Otus 1.4/55, really love the Otus for its rendering and image quality but it isn't a light lens.
@@omnicognatesnr5947 I've never seen the 40 mm in person, I have a 40 mm f/2 that Nikon makes, those plastic ones that have the z-mount, and it's pretty nice, but it's a focal length I'm not really all that jazzed about. Every Voitglander lens I've used in the last ten years have had superb optics. Really hard to find full frame Voitglander lenses for z-mount, unfortunately. I had the 35 f/2 APO on my Leica, so that was a no brainer to add because it's so sharp and small. The 50 f/1 us really a lot smaller than the pictures, it's still decent size but have you seen the Nikon 50 f/1.2? I ordered that to do a comparision and I kept it for two days. It's fucking ridiculous how large that lens is, the size of a 70-200 almost. So the Voigtlander 50 f/1 is perfect for street when I want to use that perspective, and it's probably the best studio 50 I've worked with.
I tried both of them on loan from B&H over a year ago on a trip to NYC. th-cam.com/video/A7rU7RKneDo/w-d-xo.html I found the 40 to be a nice lens, but was blown away by the character of the 50 1.0, plus it just feels special. The action on the focus and aperture ring are at another level. Somehow it felt easier to focus as well. It really never comes off my Zf in practice. The 40 didn't hit me nearly the same way. I prefered using the 35 APO to be honest. The minute I read about the Zf's manual focus subject tracking capability, I ordered the 50.
Excellent vid & info! When you talk about ISO 800 and noise reduction, how does that affect RAW files (if at all)? I ask because I've been shooting higher-ISO indoor stage events (plays, dance, concerts, all varied lighting) and I'll tell you the Zf's RAW files are absolutely stellar, so clean - no need for DxO nr in post. The Z8 - I'll run many of those through DxO for 12,500+ which is to be expected. The Z6III is in my future but no urgency, with the Z8 and Zf combo. Thanks Hudson!
I'd rarely touch noise reduction with either of these cameras under 10,000 ISO. The raw files do not have any high ISO noise reduction incorporated, but they contain metadata instructions for noise reduction settings that LR and other raw processors automatically apply. The outer realms of ISO do have some in camera noise reduction applied in camera 25,000 and beyond. The only noise reduction setting that really has an impact on raw files in camera is Long Exposure Noise Reduction which simply takes a second dark slide exposure with no light recoreded to measure the sensor's failures (dead pixels) under the current environmental conditions for the exposure length specified. It then averages those dead pixels out of the raw file. This is highly reccomended for final long exposures after composition and focus are set. It doubles exposure time.
In my humble opinion, the Z6III is more focus centric towards video and fast action shots, due to that partial sensor. ZF is for those who favours retro feel. If lanscape and portraits are concerned, folks with Z6 and Z6II shouldn't worry at all? Which lens you use and how you frame the composition would also be the defining factors in my book.For as long as you keep an eye on your histogram and exposure, all camera bodies will be a good companion for all shooters. Thanks Hudson for your thoughts on the comparisons. You have a beautiful family - Hisham from Malaysia
This makes it easier for most to pick megapixel amount in my eyes. Given how capable these two cameras are, I'd say more and more people will be more than fine with less megapixels.
Hudson, so I got the Z8 a few days ago. Shot with a D610 before. Thought I’d splurge on a pro camera. I largely chose it because I always wanted to see what it’s like to have so much resolution at one’s disposal. I could’ve gone with the Z7II, but I like to shoot at wide apertures and the improved autofocus made it seem like the better choice. I would admit though that the Z8 has features that I’ll rarely use: 20fps (don’t shoot wildlife or sports) and the 8k video (I’m still learning how to shoot video, as I’m more of a stills guy). I’m still pondering downgrading to a ZF (yeah, me too, I’m a sucker for vintage aesthetics) for a few reasons: better high ISO and using the left over cash to invest in another lens. At what ISO does the Z8’s ability to resolve more detail become negated by its ISO performance? At what ISO would you switch over to the Zf for a better looking image?
Much appreciated Hudson, Thank you, although I'm a Z9 addict!, I looking for backup camera your attention to detail is exceptional and best on the planet Regards, ................. Gary ........................... AU
Thanks so much for this! I have both, and I thought I'd use the Zf for astro just for that extra little bit of noise advantage…now I'm not sure. I really don't like the Zf dials in the dark.
Simple enough to set them to command dial control. 1/3 stop on shutter and remap the movie record button to ISO with c selected on the dail. Bam. No difference in controls from the other Z cameras. The dials are optional.
It's a fabulous question. The Zf has a much better low light sensor when it comes to high ISO image quality, but if like me you use a tracker for longer exposures the only real benefit is faster exposures at the base of the 2nd ISO channel. The Z9 is 500 and the Zf is 800. You get a faster exposure with the Zf, but higher resolution with the 9. If you were doing high ISO stationary old school shooting, I'd go Zf all day long. Let it run to 20,000 ISO, but the best night work now is on trackers in my opinion and that levels the field.
I may sell my Z9. I purchased the Z6III, and it has much less noise at iso's past 3200 than my Z9. I do a lot of low light action. I was happy with the clean images from iso 64000 to 10,000 with my Z6II, but the autofocus needed an upgrade.
Hey Hudson, Lightroom adds huge amounts of noise reduction on import. The higher the ISO in the photo, the more Noise Reduction it adds in the Details tab. Did you set the noise reduction to zero before making the comparasons between the cameras?
There's lots of recent talk about the dynamic range shortcomings of that partially stacked sensor. Thanks for posting sample pics at various ISO's. BTW, bird photos you showcased look to be Cedar Waxwings. Cheers.
Whoah. I was at that lookout at the start of the video about 4 weeks ago. And wondering if I should get back to Nikon because handy as my A74 is I don’t like the colours.
Great work Hudson. I always learn a lot from your work. in this video you said the Nikon Z 20mm 1.8 is your favorite Milky Way lens. In a previous video you talked about the Viltrox AF16mm 1.8. Which one would you recommend. Based on your recommendation, I purchased the Viltox to get the extra 4 mm. In daylight I cannot see any difference in photo quality. I will be going out to do some Milky Way now that the smoke has subsided a bit. I will have my photos to compared but interested in your experience. It will be my maiden voyage with the MSM Nomad. Thank you for the discount.
You will LOVE both. The 20mm just has NO coma or CA wide open and is sharp corner to corner. The 16 Viltrox is nearly equal in that, but you'll see a tiny, tiny bit of coma and shapness drop off near the edge. It's flat out wonderful though. It thumps any F-mount reccomended star lens from any brand I've ever tested. The pinpoint stars in the corners of the 20 at 1.8 just always astound me though... ;-)
@@pawelp1359in general photo teminology you'd be correct, but in this case we're talking about a reduction in dynamic range. Near base iso its only like 11 to 10.5. Lower on the chart is like 6 to 5.5. So it's a floating percentage drop from about 4.5% to 10% depending on where you look
Thanks for the comparison, Hudson. While the Z6III looks powerful, I don't think I'd really need the video and fast shutter capabilities. Maybe it's time to trade in the old Z6 for a Zf. I'd like to see what it's like with the SmallRig grip though.
Z8, Z6iia, and now a Z6iii owner. I can say the Z6iii is a great tool for video and stills in that order. I modified my Z6ii for astro so it is almost useless for daytime photography. I am kinda stuck with the Z6iii but I wish it was smaller. Had they come out with a Z50ii I might have pounced on that first as I miss have that little camera for travel. Let the journey continue.
Thanks for the video ! Love your enthousiasm ! Very useful to see these kind of realistic comparison, because I am in the process to sell an organ to but a new camera. I don't want to make a mistake !! 😂
Hi Hudson I use Zf and Z6iii for sport ( my sons soccer ) the Z f is paired with 70-180 and the Z6iii a Tamron 150-500 . The sport shutter speed 1/3200 sec am loving the combo .
Since i dont have any other camera currently... i am leaning towards the Z6iii. I plan on using a 24-70mm lense, and perhaps some vintage style MF lenses... but IDK!!!!
Is your Z6III still available or did you sell it immediately? Thank you so much for the helpful video! I've been comparing these bodies and I appreciate your objective and subjective conclusions. They're both super impressive cameras and seem like a blast for taking photos!
Thanks got the review! I’m hoping to be on the market for a z6iii soon. Still rocking the d750 and d810, but I think this camera will be the one to transition to mirrorless on.
Ha, after 30 days of use the original Z6 had my D850 and D500 collecting dust for over a year before I sold them. I've had and loved just about every Z camera released to date. The same could be said for the D cameras from the D70 to the D850 as well, but the Z cameras spoiled me from the first moment I looked through that viewfinder in low light. I think you're in for a treat.
@@uhoh7541 no camera has very good built in mics. I never use them. If you're serious about video you'll need external mics. Sadly Nikons tend to have poor built in preamps too, so you need a good mic that needs little amplification. For interview work these are the best thing I've found by far. amzn.to/3LYyrEy I'll do a video about them soon. I use them constantly. The transmitters are also 32bit float recorders and can store hours of recordings themselves. With 32bit float you have no need to set levels. It's such a rich file it captures the whole audible spectrum. It makes life simpler.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto awesome, thanks for feedback. have had my Z9 for almost 2 years and haven't done any video yet- seems like a waste to have this gear and not use it for everything, so goal is to be somewhat proficient by end of year.
@@uhoh7541 for ambient audio, use this: amzn.to/3M0Pg1N and get one of these for windy days. amzn.to/3AlJBRt Just record with the z9's mic set to Auto and record that at the same time. Say something to identify the video and audio right after starting both so you can store the tracks together. Then it's very very simple to synchronize the audio tracks in editing software and swap the good out for the bad. The rode mics I linked are really for interviews or vlogging.
Hi, I'm new here... great work on this comparison! I have the Zf and adore it. I shoot 40% events, 40% street photography and every day photography and 20% wildlife and birds. I'm torn - the Z6iii could offer better handling for me for birds/wildlife as well as events, but what about just another Zf? It's a dilemma.
I'd get the 6III as a second body. It's the better choice for action. I have a Z9 for that, but if I had to choose one or the other based solely on action chops... It would be the 6III. I'm not a fan of having two identical bodies. It's nicer to have your backup be better at one thing than the main.
Could you compare/test the AF speed? When I was using the Z6 and the Z8, I noticed that my 50/85 1.2 and 135 1.8 Plena lenses focused faster on the Z8. It seemed like the battery delivered more power to the lens motors, making them focus more quickly, whereas with the Z6 the motors were slower. Now, with the Z6iii, I don't see any difference compared to the Z8 (unfortunately, I sold my Z6 to get the Z6iii).
@@simrtech3d the z6iii and Zf AF speed and accuracy is absolutely equivalent. Its the newer expeed processor they share with the z8 and 9. Only the 9, 8, ZF and now 6iii have that next gen processor enabling more accurate and faster subject detection and tracking.
@@alphaandomega2709 not for backlit landscapes. Sure you can boost a near subjects shadows a bit while underexposing the rest of the scene, but that's a better solution for portraits, macro and still life. It is of near zero utility for most wildlife, travel and landscape scenes
If someone was looking for only 1 body for everything, sounds like the Z6iii is more versatile overall, gaining a pretty big advantage for video and sports/wildlife at the cost of some loss in DR and noise reduction?
If that world is confined to Nikon's 24MP offerings, yes. The Z8 is clearly the 1 body for everything winner though. I'm blessed to back my Z9 up with my Zf and have the best of both worlds, but if I could carry only one Nikon... I'd buy a Z8. If I could carry only one camera. The Leica Q3 would win.
@@HudsonHenryPhotoThen the old question comes forward: do you think that 24mp is enough for both wildlife and landscape without sacrificing too much quality? If yes, Z6iii should be the evident winner for its versatility and speed.
@@natedagreat90 that was the way they kept the Z5 cheap. They recycled the older nonbacklit, lower dynamic range and iso performance sensor. I doubt they will develop a new budget full frame sensor. I think the z6iii likely defines the bottom of the Expeed 7 full frame range.
Would you recommend this for portraits? I’m looking at up grading. Want good eye focus, with natural light and speedlights. What lens would you recommend for this? Not interested in video
Lots of talk about dynamic range shortcomings from partially stacked sensor. Thanks for posting images. BTW, birds photos you showcased are Cedar Waxwings. Cheers.
I've done some quick and dirty tests at higher iso's (Z7, Z6ii, Z9) and ISO6400 is my limit for 99% of the time. Never able to get my really high ISO shots to look as good as what you posted. Was tempted to get the Zf but was more keen on what a Z6iii would bring - since I don't do video I think I'll just keep the Z6ii. Maybe pick up a Zf when they go on sale. Not keen the SD cards but like so many of us - very keen on the retro look and the dials.
Hmmmm, The 6ii should give you incredible shots at high ISO. Make sure you're not underexposing. That brings the noise as you boost the shadows. I let the 9 run to 20,000 for work in Costa Rican rain forests and use DeNoise to decant the best of the files. I have many images that print large great over 10,000 ISO with that sensor.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto I do tend to shoot under exposed to keep from clipping highlights during the day - then never adjust for low light. :foreheadslap: Thanks for that heads up.
I have a z6 II and a z8. I want to sell my z6 II next year and buy one of these cameras but I really don't need to. The z8 does everything the z6 II doesn't do. The longer I hold onto my z6 II the less money I'll get for it. I have a question about the animal tracking. I can't help but wonder if both of these cameras have the same bird detect but rolled into the animal detect instead of having it separate. What are your thoughts on that? Can you tell much difference between your z9 and either one of these bodies when it comes to birds? The z8 didn't have the bird detect when I bought it and it was just ok at tracking birds in flight with a busy background. When they updated the firmware and gave us bird detect it was like getting a whole new camera. So I'm wondering if the animal detect for birds is the same as what it was on the z8 when it first came out or if it detected birds as quickly like it does with the z8 now. I hope that made sense. I still think Nikon needs to come out with a mirrorless d500. A z80. It could have the body of the z6 III but with similar specs and stacked apsc sensor. At least a partial stacked sensor. Nikon has made it clear they're not worried about entry level bodies or lenses.
@@carlmcneill1139 nikon is focused on the high end for sure. Yes bird detect via firmware leveled up the Z9 for sure and while the ZF and Z6iii are fine for birds, it's not the same in animal detect. I'm with you on the apsc update. I'd love that too.. I think something new is coming to replace the 50/30/zfc, but we'll have to wait and see what.
@@bigrobotnewstoday1436 I used to use dxo as well before lightroom integrated denoise. Sadly that dng from dxo is not truly a raw file. It's demosaic by dxo and then skinned in a dng to be broadly readable by other editors. I like lightroom's results just as much and then you have an Adobe processed raw file. Lightroom will also let you retroactively denoise previously processed raw files without losing your edits. I dropped dxo when Adobe added enhance.
I really don't think it's necessary to compare two essentially unusable settings. You can see from the charts I show compiled at Photon 2 Photos that they are both emulation ISO settings and the Zf outperforms by a bit.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto I bought a Z7 specifically for landscape photography. There is no better landscape sensor than the Z7 has. And the camera is a steal right now. Such a no brainer.
I just bought a Z7 not too long ago and boy, I'll tell ya what, that image quality is the chef's kiss. Autofocus missing half the shots I take of my moving or small clients is not, so now I'm wondering if I should keep the Z7 and get either a Zf or a Z6iii. I'd have one body for landscape and static subjects and one for fast moving things and paid gigs where more accurate AF (but not renting a Canon) is necessary, what's your take on that? I love the look and feel of the Zf, esp the dials (lamenting no U1, U2, Un... dials, though) for settings, but the Z6 iii seems like the more professional-friendly option. Not sure if the Z6iii warrants the price difference or if any of the differences even matter, I just want to effectively capture sport bikes, kids, all in low light venues
@@JPeezyWeezy your Z7 will nail bikes and kids. You need to forget dynamic area. You have to use auto area with face/eye detect and map subject tracking override to a function button. Then frame wider to anticipate the blackout. The ZF or 6iii would make action shooting easier, sure, but the Z7 is capable particularly with human subjects. It just requires a totally different method that the dslrs. th-cam.com/play/PLpSIo6KYw1NhNgwFtFAcFt3BfTAgF3tPL.html
@@HudsonHenryPhoto I'd love to agree but I just came back a few hours ago from well-lit family shoot, and man, the amount of times I'd have to reframe and reset AF was not fun. Using AF-C with back button and face & eye detection on the latest firmware still had the Z7 hunting, maybe 15% of the time randomly focusing on fore/background objects... and I'm talking about two people filling 90% of the frame in portrait, standing still except for the faces moving around (looking around or losing eyes would send the tracking for a loop consistently tn, more than usual, lighting maybe?). Same AF settings as rec'd by pros in vids. It nails the first shot, mostly, but I've missed great shots in every shoot I've used my Z7, even if it's still way better than anything a pro would've used 10y ago. I feel like the expectation creep is real.
Folks, keep in mind one crucial fact: Photons to Photos is a ONE man operation, and William the owner, has heavy Sony bias. Wait till DXOMark tests it, they're a proper lab. Thus far, real world test like this have completely disproven Photons to Photos.
Recently got z6lll and traded in z6ll. Z6lll far better all rounder than z6ll and zf to me is for retro enthusiasts but personally prefer quality to retro
@@martineudall there's no lack of quality in the Zf. That's for sure. In fact in low light and dynamic range its image quality is a touch superior. If action or video are your thing, the 6iii makes more sense. For landscape and low light, the Zf wins by a bit. Both are great cameras.
Nowadays, $2000 and up, it's hard to find a bad camera for image quality. For photos, my D850 is still very good for most situations. I do like all the subject tracking features on my Zf, and newer mirrorless cameras. After all, photography is about taking pictures, not chasing specs. Me saying that with 7 digital camera bodies and over 2 dozens of lenses sitting in 3 drawers is not very convincin, I guess.
As someone interested in either the z for the d850, which do you recommend? I like the retro design of the zf, but I heard the ovf of the d850 is really nice to use
@@alienmoondudes8071 do you need the new features from Z mount platform, such as full time AF for video, subject recognition, log file for video, preview your exposure in EVF and so on. If not, you just want a camera for landscape, macro, and even portrait still images, D850 is still very good by today standard and it’s getting very affordable on used market. 3rd party F mount lenses are usually cheaper than canon or Sony mount versions. I rotate what camera bodies I take out almost every time. It makes me appreciate all of them.
This should put all the DR noise issues to bed. A few videos are showing images that when they lift the shadow,s the subject and entire image is unusable. I hope more people will see these results of normal usage, when exposed correctly, to see the Z6 III will perform as well as its older siblings.
I wish I had a clue what all the Nikon camera models are and what they are good for. I see no categorizing system just a chaotic alphabet soup of letters and numbers. Can you link me to an explainer video please? Thank you.
@@henrywestridge7298 not so complicated... Full frame pro to enthusiast: Z9-8-7-6-5. (Z6 has had 3 iterations, Z7 has had 2) Full frame retro: Zf APSC cameras: Z50-30 APSC retro: Zfc The latest full frame cameras released have much faster processing with no blackout and more advanced autofocus tracking capabilities: Z9, 8, f & 6III. That's it.
I can't place the Minnesota accent, I can recognise new York accents, Washington accents, phoenix accent but Minnesota, people from there soundpartly like all the other accents. Is Hudson from minnesota?
The key advantages of the Zf and Z6III are action and manual focus related. The Manual focus subject detection is just bliss for manual focus lens junkies and the vastly impoved tracking and lack of blackout makes them both much better cameras for tracking action. I worked action with the original Z6 & 7 for years. It can be done with practice and aquired skill, but it's a breeze with the newer Zs (9, 8, f, and 6III). For landscape and still life, there's not much to gain.
I bought a fluid head tripod from you and that was great. So I wanted to get a z9 - big Mistake! It was 3 days before I shot a picture! You have completely left the "New to Nikon" shooters in the dark. I don't know how the controls work or how to use them. You need a BEGINNING VIDEO. Not ones that make it totally confusing and complicated.
Frank, with all due respect. The Z9 is not a beginner's camera. It's a very complex machine. Of the 1000s of thank you's I've received for the free setup videos I do, your's is the 1st complaint. :-)
Well, then don't complain about the ergo. Maybe it's not the right machine for you. They developed it hand in hand with Smallrig to make that grip for those who want to use the camera. I never took the grip off after installing it and I love the feel and the look. LOVE IT. To each thier own. Opinions vary and we're all entitled to them. I have mine and you differ. Makes the world more interesting.
![GLOW QUALITY TUTORIAL LIKE @STAR_GFX_0 😀 [ 100 SUBSCRIBER SPECIAL VIDEO ]📈☺️](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3SS8Z0bXhwg/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for this. Was waiting on some real life usage reviews of the Z6III. There's a loss in DR, but gains in other aspects. But still far, far better than my current entry level DSLR 😄
Low ISO performance looks excellent. Still planning on getting one.
You’ll love it man 🤌🏽
This weeks ATS finally convince me to pull the trigger on the Zf as my second body. Thanks Hudson. Also purchased the Voigtlander 50 f1 and 35 f2 APO. What a joy to use kit, just helps me to slow down and enjoy the photography process and art.
You're in for a treat Paul. ;-)
Thanks for making this well thought-out video. We are a Zf, Z8, & Z9 household. Couldn't find a purpose in owning the Z6iii, where would it fit? I also enjoy shooting the Zf. Was initially intrigued by the new viewfinder on the Z6iii, and the lack of a CF express card on the Zf has always bugged me. But trade in the Zf toward a Z6iii? No way! Thanks again for this informative video.
Have the Zf for birds actually with the 180-600mm. Works great for me.
Thanks for the testing and commentary. Nuanced but real differences, yet in the end both great for a lot of things ... what a great time to be a photographer! Hope all is well.
I love my Nikon Zf because it a great family/street camera and, lets be real, its beautiful! It pairs so nicely with my Nikon film SLRs, which I still shoot. I absolutely love experimenting with my old MF Nikkor/ Minolta glass and modern Voigtlander, Pergear, Viltrox Z mounts etc Its just a fun camera. I don’t shoot video, so other than improved ergonomics for my giant 3X sized hands, I was skeptical I could justify to my spouse the purchase of a new camera. Going to spent much much less $ to get the Viltrox 75mm f1.2 for my other family shooter, the Zfc. I have seen your positive comments on that lens, in a prior video. Great comparison, as always.
This video was just lovely comparing the scientific results with real world usage. Mt Saint Helens is an amazing landscape, I really need to make the trek out there again. Congrats you got a new subscriber.
Except that the first note on the charts reads: "These raw values are not apropriate for comparing camera models because they are not adjusted for gain or area". So much of a sciende.
I sold my Z6II and am loving myZ6III. The IBIS and new video capabilities are great for what I typically do. It makes a pretty good backup to the Z9 for wildlife. I had to depend on it for a couple of weeks while Nikon Service had my Z9 in for service. I think it is a great camera for lots of folks. I agree with your assessment!
My cousin got the ZF. I thought I would love it but hated the smallness. Got the Z6III and it is much more suited to my style. Great video, birds are Waxwings :)
I'm looking for an ideal, lighter companion to my Z8 - could the Zf be the perfect match?
I now own the Voigtlander 50 f/1 and it's glued to my Zf, and I for wider stuff I got the Voigtlander 35 f/2 APO and for the stuff I do this is all I need. Terrific kit and 50 f/1 is one of the finest, if not the finest, lens I've ever owned, and I've owned all of them.
@@omnicognatesnr5947 There's also a 50 f2 APO, really sharp lens and it's smaller and lighter than the 50 f1, I got the Voigtlander 40 1.2 and later the Zeiss Otus 1.4/55, really love the Otus for its rendering and image quality but it isn't a light lens.
@@omnicognatesnr5947 I've never seen the 40 mm in person, I have a 40 mm f/2 that Nikon makes, those plastic ones that have the z-mount, and it's pretty nice, but it's a focal length I'm not really all that jazzed about. Every Voitglander lens I've used in the last ten years have had superb optics. Really hard to find full frame Voitglander lenses for z-mount, unfortunately. I had the 35 f/2 APO on my Leica, so that was a no brainer to add because it's so sharp and small. The 50 f/1 us really a lot smaller than the pictures, it's still decent size but have you seen the Nikon 50 f/1.2? I ordered that to do a comparision and I kept it for two days. It's fucking ridiculous how large that lens is, the size of a 70-200 almost. So the Voigtlander 50 f/1 is perfect for street when I want to use that perspective, and it's probably the best studio 50 I've worked with.
What were the other lenses that you've owned? And what do you shoot out of curiosity? Not antagonism....just curious to learn
I tried both of them on loan from B&H over a year ago on a trip to NYC. th-cam.com/video/A7rU7RKneDo/w-d-xo.html I found the 40 to be a nice lens, but was blown away by the character of the 50 1.0, plus it just feels special. The action on the focus and aperture ring are at another level. Somehow it felt easier to focus as well. It really never comes off my Zf in practice. The 40 didn't hit me nearly the same way. I prefered using the 35 APO to be honest. The minute I read about the Zf's manual focus subject tracking capability, I ordered the 50.
Thanks for this great comparison!
Excellent vid & info! When you talk about ISO 800 and noise reduction, how does that affect RAW files (if at all)? I ask because I've been shooting higher-ISO indoor stage events (plays, dance, concerts, all varied lighting) and I'll tell you the Zf's RAW files are absolutely stellar, so clean - no need for DxO nr in post. The Z8 - I'll run many of those through DxO for 12,500+ which is to be expected.
The Z6III is in my future but no urgency, with the Z8 and Zf combo. Thanks Hudson!
I'd rarely touch noise reduction with either of these cameras under 10,000 ISO. The raw files do not have any high ISO noise reduction incorporated, but they contain metadata instructions for noise reduction settings that LR and other raw processors automatically apply. The outer realms of ISO do have some in camera noise reduction applied in camera 25,000 and beyond. The only noise reduction setting that really has an impact on raw files in camera is Long Exposure Noise Reduction which simply takes a second dark slide exposure with no light recoreded to measure the sensor's failures (dead pixels) under the current environmental conditions for the exposure length specified. It then averages those dead pixels out of the raw file. This is highly reccomended for final long exposures after composition and focus are set. It doubles exposure time.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Super helpful, thank you!
In my humble opinion, the Z6III is more focus centric towards video and fast action shots, due to that partial sensor. ZF is for those who favours retro feel.
If lanscape and portraits are concerned, folks with Z6 and Z6II shouldn't worry at all? Which lens you use and how you frame the composition would also be the defining factors in my book.For as long as you keep an eye on your histogram and exposure, all camera bodies will be a good companion for all shooters.
Thanks Hudson for your thoughts on the comparisons. You have a beautiful family - Hisham from Malaysia
This makes it easier for most to pick megapixel amount in my eyes. Given how capable these two cameras are, I'd say more and more people will be more than fine with less megapixels.
So for outdoor family stuff, do you think the zf will produce nicer images due to the metrring and detail retention in highlights and shadows
Hudson, so I got the Z8 a few days ago. Shot with a D610 before. Thought I’d splurge on a pro camera. I largely chose it because I always wanted to see what it’s like to have so much resolution at one’s disposal. I could’ve gone with the Z7II, but I like to shoot at wide apertures and the improved autofocus made it seem like the better choice. I would admit though that the Z8 has features that I’ll rarely use: 20fps (don’t shoot wildlife or sports) and the 8k video (I’m still learning how to shoot video, as I’m more of a stills guy). I’m still pondering downgrading to a ZF (yeah, me too, I’m a sucker for vintage aesthetics) for a few reasons: better high ISO and using the left over cash to invest in another lens. At what ISO does the Z8’s ability to resolve more detail become negated by its ISO performance? At what ISO would you switch over to the Zf for a better looking image?
Much appreciated Hudson,
Thank you, although I'm a Z9 addict!, I looking for backup camera
your attention to detail is exceptional and best on the planet
Regards,
................. Gary
........................... AU
Thanks so much for this! I have both, and I thought I'd use the Zf for astro just for that extra little bit of noise advantage…now I'm not sure. I really don't like the Zf dials in the dark.
Simple enough to set them to command dial control. 1/3 stop on shutter and remap the movie record button to ISO with c selected on the dail. Bam. No difference in controls from the other Z cameras. The dials are optional.
Great review Hudson!
How would you compare the actual image quality between the Z9 and the Zf for astro & night time photography?
It's a fabulous question. The Zf has a much better low light sensor when it comes to high ISO image quality, but if like me you use a tracker for longer exposures the only real benefit is faster exposures at the base of the 2nd ISO channel. The Z9 is 500 and the Zf is 800. You get a faster exposure with the Zf, but higher resolution with the 9. If you were doing high ISO stationary old school shooting, I'd go Zf all day long. Let it run to 20,000 ISO, but the best night work now is on trackers in my opinion and that levels the field.
I may sell my Z9. I purchased the Z6III, and it has much less noise at iso's past 3200 than my Z9. I do a lot of low light action. I was happy with the clean images from iso 64000 to 10,000 with my Z6II, but the autofocus needed an upgrade.
Hey Hudson, Lightroom adds huge amounts of noise reduction on import. The higher the ISO in the photo, the more Noise Reduction it adds in the Details tab.
Did you set the noise reduction to zero before making the comparasons between the cameras?
@@youphototube Of course, but hat's not Lightroom though. That's Nikon's built in correction instructions. The raw processors merely obey..
There's lots of recent talk about the dynamic range shortcomings of that partially stacked sensor. Thanks for posting sample pics at various ISO's. BTW, bird photos you showcased look to be Cedar Waxwings. Cheers.
Whoah. I was at that lookout at the start of the video about 4 weeks ago. And wondering if I should get back to Nikon because handy as my A74 is I don’t like the colours.
Great work Hudson. I always learn a lot from your work. in this video you said the Nikon Z 20mm 1.8 is your favorite Milky Way lens. In a previous video you talked about the Viltrox AF16mm 1.8. Which one would you recommend. Based on your recommendation, I purchased the Viltox to get the extra 4 mm. In daylight I cannot see any difference in photo quality. I will be going out to do some Milky Way now that the smoke has subsided a bit. I will have my photos to compared but interested in your experience. It will be my maiden voyage with the MSM Nomad. Thank you for the discount.
You will LOVE both. The 20mm just has NO coma or CA wide open and is sharp corner to corner. The 16 Viltrox is nearly equal in that, but you'll see a tiny, tiny bit of coma and shapness drop off near the edge. It's flat out wonderful though. It thumps any F-mount reccomended star lens from any brand I've ever tested.
The pinpoint stars in the corners of the 20 at 1.8 just always astound me though... ;-)
At minute 3:43 you say that half a stop less is about 10%. Am I wrong? Isn't 0.5 stops 25%? 1 stop more equals 100% and 2 stops equals 400%?
@@pawelp1359in general photo teminology you'd be correct, but in this case we're talking about a reduction in dynamic range. Near base iso its only like 11 to 10.5. Lower on the chart is like 6 to 5.5. So it's a floating percentage drop from about 4.5% to 10% depending on where you look
Thanks for the comparison, Hudson. While the Z6III looks powerful, I don't think I'd really need the video and fast shutter capabilities. Maybe it's time to trade in the old Z6 for a Zf. I'd like to see what it's like with the SmallRig grip though.
Z8, Z6iia, and now a Z6iii owner. I can say the Z6iii is a great tool for video and stills in that order. I modified my Z6ii for astro so it is almost useless for daytime photography. I am kinda stuck with the Z6iii but I wish it was smaller. Had they come out with a Z50ii I might have pounced on that first as I miss have that little camera for travel. Let the journey continue.
Thanks for the video ! Love your enthousiasm ! Very useful to see these kind of realistic comparison, because I am in the process to sell an organ to but a new camera. I don't want to make a mistake !! 😂
Hi Hudson I use Zf and Z6iii for sport ( my sons soccer ) the Z f is paired with 70-180 and the Z6iii a Tamron 150-500 . The sport shutter speed 1/3200 sec am loving the combo .
Do you feel like the ZF produces better images? or that the z6iii focuses better?
Cheers Hudson 👍🏻
Since i dont have any other camera currently... i am leaning towards the Z6iii. I plan on using a 24-70mm lense, and perhaps some vintage style MF lenses... but IDK!!!!
The 24-120 is VERY hard to beat.
Is your Z6III still available or did you sell it immediately?
Thank you so much for the helpful video! I've been comparing these bodies and I appreciate your objective and subjective conclusions. They're both super impressive cameras and seem like a blast for taking photos!
You're very welcome. It sold when this video first launched may weeks ago.
Thanks got the review! I’m hoping to be on the market for a z6iii soon. Still rocking the d750 and d810, but I think this camera will be the one to transition to mirrorless on.
Ha, after 30 days of use the original Z6 had my D850 and D500 collecting dust for over a year before I sold them. I've had and loved just about every Z camera released to date. The same could be said for the D cameras from the D70 to the D850 as well, but the Z cameras spoiled me from the first moment I looked through that viewfinder in low light. I think you're in for a treat.
I've heard people say the built in mic on the Z9 isn't great and one should buy an external mic for video.
How is the built in mic on the Z6III?
@@uhoh7541 no camera has very good built in mics. I never use them. If you're serious about video you'll need external mics. Sadly Nikons tend to have poor built in preamps too, so you need a good mic that needs little amplification. For interview work these are the best thing I've found by far. amzn.to/3LYyrEy I'll do a video about them soon. I use them constantly. The transmitters are also 32bit float recorders and can store hours of recordings themselves. With 32bit float you have no need to set levels. It's such a rich file it captures the whole audible spectrum. It makes life simpler.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto awesome, thanks for feedback. have had my Z9 for almost 2 years and haven't done any video yet- seems like a waste to have this gear and not use it for everything, so goal is to be somewhat proficient by end of year.
@@uhoh7541 for ambient audio, use this: amzn.to/3M0Pg1N and get one of these for windy days. amzn.to/3AlJBRt Just record with the z9's mic set to Auto and record that at the same time. Say something to identify the video and audio right after starting both so you can store the tracks together. Then it's very very simple to synchronize the audio tracks in editing software and swap the good out for the bad. The rode mics I linked are really for interviews or vlogging.
Hi, I'm new here... great work on this comparison! I have the Zf and adore it. I shoot 40% events, 40% street photography and every day photography and 20% wildlife and birds. I'm torn - the Z6iii could offer better handling for me for birds/wildlife as well as events, but what about just another Zf? It's a dilemma.
I'd get the 6III as a second body. It's the better choice for action. I have a Z9 for that, but if I had to choose one or the other based solely on action chops... It would be the 6III. I'm not a fan of having two identical bodies. It's nicer to have your backup be better at one thing than the main.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto thank you so much! I was almost convinced but you helped me make the final decision :)
Could you compare/test the AF speed?
When I was using the Z6 and the Z8, I noticed that my 50/85 1.2 and 135 1.8 Plena lenses focused faster on the Z8. It seemed like the battery delivered more power to the lens motors, making them focus more quickly, whereas with the Z6 the motors were slower.
Now, with the Z6iii, I don't see any difference compared to the Z8 (unfortunately, I sold my Z6 to get the Z6iii).
@@simrtech3d the z6iii and Zf AF speed and accuracy is absolutely equivalent. Its the newer expeed processor they share with the z8 and 9. Only the 9, 8, ZF and now 6iii have that next gen processor enabling more accurate and faster subject detection and tracking.
Using an outdoor flash with the Z6iii will give more dynamic range, hope this helps.
@@alphaandomega2709 not for backlit landscapes. Sure you can boost a near subjects shadows a bit while underexposing the rest of the scene, but that's a better solution for portraits, macro and still life. It is of near zero utility for most wildlife, travel and landscape scenes
This is a great technical tour de force
If someone was looking for only 1 body for everything, sounds like the Z6iii is more versatile overall, gaining a pretty big advantage for video and sports/wildlife at the cost of some loss in DR and noise reduction?
If that world is confined to Nikon's 24MP offerings, yes. The Z8 is clearly the 1 body for everything winner though. I'm blessed to back my Z9 up with my Zf and have the best of both worlds, but if I could carry only one Nikon... I'd buy a Z8. If I could carry only one camera. The Leica Q3 would win.
@@HudsonHenryPhotoThen the old question comes forward: do you think that 24mp is enough for both wildlife and landscape without sacrificing too much quality? If yes, Z6iii should be the evident winner for its versatility and speed.
I hope to see that sensor in a z511 i can't see nikon still using the old d750 sensor although i have a feeling they will.
@@natedagreat90 that was the way they kept the Z5 cheap. They recycled the older nonbacklit, lower dynamic range and iso performance sensor. I doubt they will develop a new budget full frame sensor. I think the z6iii likely defines the bottom of the Expeed 7 full frame range.
Would you recommend this for portraits? I’m looking at up grading. Want good eye focus, with natural light and speedlights. What lens would you recommend for this? Not interested in video
@@geraldinebryce594 every Z is good at that. Any of the fast primes or the 70-200 S. On a budget? The 85 1.8 S. Need the best? The Plena 135 1.4.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto definitely on a budget. Thank you
Lots of talk about dynamic range shortcomings from partially stacked sensor. Thanks for posting images. BTW, birds photos you showcased are Cedar Waxwings. Cheers.
I've done some quick and dirty tests at higher iso's (Z7, Z6ii, Z9) and ISO6400 is my limit for 99% of the time. Never able to get my really high ISO shots to look as good as what you posted.
Was tempted to get the Zf but was more keen on what a Z6iii would bring - since I don't do video I think I'll just keep the Z6ii. Maybe pick up a Zf when they go on sale. Not keen the SD cards but like so many of us - very keen on the retro look and the dials.
Hmmmm, The 6ii should give you incredible shots at high ISO. Make sure you're not underexposing. That brings the noise as you boost the shadows. I let the 9 run to 20,000 for work in Costa Rican rain forests and use DeNoise to decant the best of the files. I have many images that print large great over 10,000 ISO with that sensor.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto I do tend to shoot under exposed to keep from clipping highlights during the day - then never adjust for low light. :foreheadslap: Thanks for that heads up.
I have a z6 II and a z8. I want to sell my z6 II next year and buy one of these cameras but I really don't need to. The z8 does everything the z6 II doesn't do. The longer I hold onto my z6 II the less money I'll get for it. I have a question about the animal tracking. I can't help but wonder if both of these cameras have the same bird detect but rolled into the animal detect instead of having it separate. What are your thoughts on that? Can you tell much difference between your z9 and either one of these bodies when it comes to birds? The z8 didn't have the bird detect when I bought it and it was just ok at tracking birds in flight with a busy background. When they updated the firmware and gave us bird detect it was like getting a whole new camera. So I'm wondering if the animal detect for birds is the same as what it was on the z8 when it first came out or if it detected birds as quickly like it does with the z8 now. I hope that made sense. I still think Nikon needs to come out with a mirrorless d500. A z80. It could have the body of the z6 III but with similar specs and stacked apsc sensor. At least a partial stacked sensor. Nikon has made it clear they're not worried about entry level bodies or lenses.
@@carlmcneill1139 nikon is focused on the high end for sure. Yes bird detect via firmware leveled up the Z9 for sure and while the ZF and Z6iii are fine for birds, it's not the same in animal detect. I'm with you on the apsc update. I'd love that too.. I think something new is coming to replace the 50/30/zfc, but we'll have to wait and see what.
I like DXO PureRaw for noise reduction. DXO will also remaster colors due to high ISO. Just export to DNG raw and use any editor you want.
@@bigrobotnewstoday1436 I used to use dxo as well before lightroom integrated denoise. Sadly that dng from dxo is not truly a raw file. It's demosaic by dxo and then skinned in a dng to be broadly readable by other editors. I like lightroom's results just as much and then you have an Adobe processed raw file. Lightroom will also let you retroactively denoise previously processed raw files without losing your edits. I dropped dxo when Adobe added enhance.
been waiting for this comparison thanks mate
I'm still on the original Z6. The AF upgrades are tempting, but it's kind of disappointing to not get an improvement in image quality.
Do you feel the Z6iii is as good as the Z6 for Astro? Thinking about upgrading.
So close. I don't think you'll notice much difference.
Is the shadow noise flickering in the z6iii a problem?
@@fabiofilipeazevedo3840 never an issue for me...
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Thank you for the feedback, I think im going for one :)
Nice thanks! It’s a shame you didn’t compare 64,000 iso, which I believe is the new top setting. Non H1 etc.
I really don't think it's necessary to compare two essentially unusable settings. You can see from the charts I show compiled at Photon 2 Photos that they are both emulation ISO settings and the Zf outperforms by a bit.
@ Yes, I like the idea of having iso 64k available, but basically you are right...
I would expect the newer sensor to prioritize readout speed over dynamic range.
@@thedarkslide that's the trend for sure. I would love a more landscape focused sensor. We'll see.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto I bought a Z7 specifically for landscape photography. There is no better landscape sensor than the Z7 has. And the camera is a steal right now. Such a no brainer.
I just bought a Z7 not too long ago and boy, I'll tell ya what, that image quality is the chef's kiss. Autofocus missing half the shots I take of my moving or small clients is not, so now I'm wondering if I should keep the Z7 and get either a Zf or a Z6iii. I'd have one body for landscape and static subjects and one for fast moving things and paid gigs where more accurate AF (but not renting a Canon) is necessary, what's your take on that? I love the look and feel of the Zf, esp the dials (lamenting no U1, U2, Un... dials, though) for settings, but the Z6 iii seems like the more professional-friendly option. Not sure if the Z6iii warrants the price difference or if any of the differences even matter, I just want to effectively capture sport bikes, kids, all in low light venues
@@JPeezyWeezy your Z7 will nail bikes and kids. You need to forget dynamic area. You have to use auto area with face/eye detect and map subject tracking override to a function button. Then frame wider to anticipate the blackout. The ZF or 6iii would make action shooting easier, sure, but the Z7 is capable particularly with human subjects. It just requires a totally different method that the dslrs. th-cam.com/play/PLpSIo6KYw1NhNgwFtFAcFt3BfTAgF3tPL.html
@@HudsonHenryPhoto I'd love to agree but I just came back a few hours ago from well-lit family shoot, and man, the amount of times I'd have to reframe and reset AF was not fun. Using AF-C with back button and face & eye detection on the latest firmware still had the Z7 hunting, maybe 15% of the time randomly focusing on fore/background objects... and I'm talking about two people filling 90% of the frame in portrait, standing still except for the faces moving around (looking around or losing eyes would send the tracking for a loop consistently tn, more than usual, lighting maybe?). Same AF settings as rec'd by pros in vids. It nails the first shot, mostly, but I've missed great shots in every shoot I've used my Z7, even if it's still way better than anything a pro would've used 10y ago. I feel like the expectation creep is real.
If i'm interested in the camera, how do I contact you?
My website has all my contact details (www.hudsonhenry.com), but the 6III has long sold.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Folks, keep in mind one crucial fact: Photons to Photos is a ONE man operation, and William the owner, has heavy Sony bias. Wait till DXOMark tests it, they're a proper lab. Thus far, real world test like this have completely disproven Photons to Photos.
Recently got z6lll and traded in z6ll. Z6lll far better all rounder than z6ll and zf to me is for retro enthusiasts but personally prefer quality to retro
@@martineudall there's no lack of quality in the Zf. That's for sure. In fact in low light and dynamic range its image quality is a touch superior. If action or video are your thing, the 6iii makes more sense. For landscape and low light, the Zf wins by a bit. Both are great cameras.
Verry good!
Let me know if your still selling your Z6iii. Interested.
@@kouvry1 it sold many weeks ago when this first published.
Nowadays, $2000 and up, it's hard to find a bad camera for image quality. For photos, my D850 is still very good for most situations. I do like all the subject tracking features on my Zf, and newer mirrorless cameras. After all, photography is about taking pictures, not chasing specs. Me saying that with 7 digital camera bodies and over 2 dozens of lenses sitting in 3 drawers is not very convincin, I guess.
As someone interested in either the z for the d850, which do you recommend? I like the retro design of the zf, but I heard the ovf of the d850 is really nice to use
@@alienmoondudes8071 do you need the new features from Z mount platform, such as full time AF for video, subject recognition, log file for video, preview your exposure in EVF and so on.
If not, you just want a camera for landscape, macro, and even portrait still images, D850 is still very good by today standard and it’s getting very affordable on used market. 3rd party F mount lenses are usually cheaper than canon or Sony mount versions. I rotate what camera bodies I take out almost every time. It makes me appreciate all of them.
I have zf. But somehow i want modern grip camera. I bet when i will sell it and get z6iii i will regret it. 🤯
@@_krakra_ they're both great.
This should put all the DR noise issues to bed. A few videos are showing images that when they lift the shadow,s the subject and entire image is unusable. I hope more people will see these results of normal usage, when exposed correctly, to see the Z6 III will perform as well as its older siblings.
That's precisely what I discovered - nearly all video highlights are blown out in sunlight :-( ...have no interest to record every video in RAW ;-)
I wish I had a clue what all the Nikon camera models are and what they are good for. I see no categorizing system just a chaotic alphabet soup of letters and numbers. Can you link me to an explainer video please? Thank you.
@@henrywestridge7298 not so complicated...
Full frame pro to enthusiast: Z9-8-7-6-5. (Z6 has had 3 iterations, Z7 has had 2)
Full frame retro: Zf
APSC cameras: Z50-30
APSC retro: Zfc
The latest full frame cameras released have much faster processing with no blackout and more advanced autofocus tracking capabilities: Z9, 8, f & 6III.
That's it.
I can't place the Minnesota accent, I can recognise new York accents, Washington accents, phoenix accent but Minnesota, people from there soundpartly like all the other accents. Is Hudson from minnesota?
Proud Oregon native.
i didn't know you happen to exist in hot weather
I'll be keeping my Z6. No reason to upgrade for me.
The key advantages of the Zf and Z6III are action and manual focus related. The Manual focus subject detection is just bliss for manual focus lens junkies and the vastly impoved tracking and lack of blackout makes them both much better cameras for tracking action. I worked action with the original Z6 & 7 for years. It can be done with practice and aquired skill, but it's a breeze with the newer Zs (9, 8, f, and 6III). For landscape and still life, there's not much to gain.
I bought a fluid head tripod from you and that was great. So I wanted to get a z9 - big Mistake! It was 3 days before I shot a picture! You have completely left the "New to Nikon" shooters in the dark. I don't know how the controls work or how to use them.
You need a BEGINNING VIDEO. Not ones that make it totally confusing and complicated.
Frank, with all due respect. The Z9 is not a beginner's camera. It's a very complex machine. Of the 1000s of thank you's I've received for the free setup videos I do, your's is the 1st complaint. :-)
👍🏾🙏🏾 🏴🇸🇪🇹🇹
I have the zf, bought it for the looks. Ergo suck so much. i refuse to use it with the grip because the grip ruins the aesthetic 🥹
Well, then don't complain about the ergo. Maybe it's not the right machine for you. They developed it hand in hand with Smallrig to make that grip for those who want to use the camera. I never took the grip off after installing it and I love the feel and the look. LOVE IT. To each thier own. Opinions vary and we're all entitled to them. I have mine and you differ. Makes the world more interesting.