reviews the second chapter of The King James Only Controversy. All production and credit belongs to Alpha and Omega Ministries®. If this video interested you, please visit aomin.org/
I was raised in a KJVO baptist school. Later in life I studied biblical Greek and biblical criticism. From my own experience, 0% of the loudest preachers had a M.Div. 99.9% had just a B.R.E. (no Greek whatsoever, more of an English Bible history degree). The kindest of them, who did not scream, probably did ok with their BRE or institute diploma. However, the second they veered into the doctrine of inspiration, providence, predestination, or biblical criticism, look out, because here comes the Arminian / common sense school / semi-Pelagian / anti-intellectual inferiority complex. The irony with the Hyles crowd is they love to shower each other in honorary doctorates. Then those guys start talking about Hebrew and Greek, with their English Bible backgrounds, and they have no idea what they are talking about. They parrot the vocabulary without understanding what those words mean.
Men of high degree are a lie. You stated above that you were raised KJ, never believed it, had no revelation regarding its authority, and were moved backwards via dead languages.
So much of this would be hilarious _if it was not_ so, so SERIOUS whenever we speak about how to handle the Word of God when delivering it to others! These "ministers" need to study more sermons and books of the scholarly "Reformed" part of their faith today! And some classes on Logic (as it comes from the mind of God) wouldn't hurt either... all while keeping in mind how important it is to tremble before the Almighty God in giving an account of how you did your best and spent time like the Apostle Paul did before claiming to speak for Him (without any self-promotion, pride and wallowing in a self-imposed ignorance as if it were some kind of 'badge of the faith')!!!
Steve Anderson engages in a form of biblioidolatry. I was raised KJV and I cannot tell you how many pastors lied (or were just ignorant) of how modern translations were derived. To think he knows what he's talking about in regards to the Septuagint............well.
I have found some disturbing differences between the Septuagint and the Masoretic Text that warrants this question. Did the Jewish scribes who wrote the Masoretic Hebrew Text have a problem with Jesus being the Messiah and did they have a problem with the New Testament writings that would cause them to change certain words or even verses in the new text. Are there any books discussing this that are reliable resources?
The fact that they claim it is 100% accurate tells me all I need to know. The Septuagint has some minor issues but for the most part it is a very good translation. thanks@@HansTyndale
Didn’t they find the Dead Sea scrolls, and Isaiah is pretty much 100% in agreement with the masoretic text. The bigger concern should be the evidence of the Septuagint not being created after Jesus. Only piece of evidence being the letter aristeas is not good. Chick publications has great information on this
@@anthonylogiudice9215 false. They match the masorotic text. There is no evidence the Septuagint existed pre Jesus. It’s obvious who ever made the Septuagint was quoting the New Testament into the Old Testament. The letter of aristeas (the only supposed evidence) is obviously a fake, it has historical facts 100% wrong the time like is inaccurate, and even the way it was written is so obviously a made up letter trying to verify the Septuagint. It even says when they read this letter in the future.
@@fishersofmen4727 He also said that he wished that gay people would off themselves with a gun. He doesn't believe gay people can repent and would rather they'd all die and go to hell. 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
Instead of IFB, why can't everybody be historically correct and call these guys Ruckmanites. Peter Ruckman is the guy that got all of this started. I grew up as an Independent, Fundamental Baptist affiliated with the Baptist Bible Fellowship. In those days the KJV was seen as best, but we also had a saying, "Jesus didn't speak English."
@@mlneale1959 Yes, people bash the IFB but it's not like INDEPENDANT fundamentalist baptists are some monolithic unit. The people they are trying to bash are basically just the lowest levels of ignorance in the church today (not all of which are IFB). I live in West Virginia so I see plenty of pastoral ignorance unfortunately.
Steven Anderson keeps pointing out that the Septuagint reads nothing like the originals. But neither does the Masoretic text match 100% the original Hebrew autographs.
The arguments over history and scripture are endless. At the end of days. It comes down to this. Who do you say I am? Is Jesus Lord of Lords, King of Kings. It will be "just" you and Jesus... The Word incarnate.
MOST KJV Onlyists CANNOT read Hebrew and will ignore anything you say that shows where the KJV and the Hebrew Text differ. Pause at 16:19. And, sadly, KJV Onlyists say that the KJV and the Hebrew Text always say the SAME thing!!!!!!!! KJV Onlyists NEVER want you to know that there were SEVERAL editions of the "TR".
The new testament writers used the septuagint. If God spoke to mankind it's doubtful we should have to struggle so hard to weed through texts to find the truth.
Same, this is my list Walter Martin Walter Kaiser Chuck Missler Chuck Smith Chuck Baldwin Jacob Prasch Dr. Robert Morey RC Sproul James White Vernon McGee John McArthur Kent Hovind Dave Hunt Gary Habermas Norman Geisler
Thank you Dr.White for this response to emotional Baptist Pastor :) Pastor Steve do not know that LXX is the doyen of the Old Testament even its a translation but it is not according to the Rabbinical Commentaries therefor it is more Biblical then Rabbinical Masoretic Text. Pastor Steve is traveling in the Rabbinical lines those are against about LXX because they are always defeated by Christians according to LXX on the issue of Promised Messiah who is Jesus of Nazareth and approved by the Scripture. therefore Rabbies brought emended text called Masoretic Text in 2nd AD and revised it many time according to Talmudic commentaries and and 1008 AD of the present oldest copy is also a question as you said in the Video where is the Oldest one of 2nd Century :) . Pastor Steve is against about the Sinaiticus codex because he is Baptist Church Pastor :) because of the Gospel of Mark you know more then us because you are Dr. of Greek Language Sir. but Mark 16:16 is not present in this codex therefor Pastor Steve is against the Doyen of New Testament which is Codex Sinaiticus its Ok if historically we are coming towards Math 28:19 it minor issue. I love your sentence about the TR :) and its fundamental base. I am from Pakistan and love to study the history of the Biblical Manuscripts.
"No one takes it seriously", lol does he not realize the Septuagint is the authoritative bible for The Eastern Orthodox Church lol, the legit successor to the early Greek Christians.
@@christianorthodoxy4769 Meaning the Copts have their version as does The Aramaic Assyrian, Ethiopian Orthodox etc? According to the language of the people
That's the Russian Bible my parents have. Based on the Septuagint. Never got changed since it got translated into old slavic (Glagolitic, later Cyrillic). I don't understand why so many Christians in the English speaking world use the NIV, translated by godless Atheists who really corrupted the Bible by erasing, adding everything what points to Jesus Christ as Son of God, our creator.
@@magistradox39 maybe because there is no protestant denomination bias. I also don't like how the Masoretic is usually preferred over the LXX. The Masoretic doesn't even make sense sometimes. The New testament makes reference from the LXX most of the time or whatever greek translation of the Hebrew. Plus the the council of Jamnia is fake.
The problem with Anderson is that he knows the accurate info of the things he presents. He’s a man who does research, but his traditions blind him from accepting the truth on a matter because he would lose his whole flock if he admitted error. The English text of the Old Testament in his KJV of the Bible is based on the Hebrew Masoretic (some LXX and some of the Latin Vulgate). He needs to understand that this Hebrew text came about in the 7th century A.D. and was completed in the 10th century A.D. It seems that Anderson is just repulsed by the idea of older texts that pre-date his precious KJV.
Jerome got fooled by the Jewish scribes when he was working with them in Palestine. He based his OT Latin translation directly on their hebrew texts instead of the superior and more accurate greek Septuagint OT. Jerome thought the hebrew text proffered by the Proto-Masoretic text. His contemporary, Augustine, pleaded with him not to do the translation this way. Anyhow, the church did not accept the Latin Vulgate until the Council of Trent which was a panicked move against the Reformation.
I read the Septuagint in 2012 and again in 2019. Mine has also, the apocryphal books as well. It’s interesting to me. Daniel is different in that there are longer chapters and Esther is different in that, God is mentioned in the Septuagint. I love books of antiquity. Because of it, I researched unicorns. Rhinos! It’s a good read. Period.
Deb me too! Was brought up taught that those "other books" were bad. There is so much history to be learnt from them, it's a shame that they are not read by more people. I must add that I do not believe that they are scripture, with the exception of 1st Enoch.
@@dlbard1 I want to believe in 1 Enoch, I really do. But how do you explain the 300 cubit tall giants? At the moment, I believe there is a "true" Enochic core, though.
the following is all that the Masoretic Text (in the Bible) Job has about Mrs. Job : Job 2:9 Then his wife said to him, Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God, and die. vs. The Greek Septuagint Brenton Translation Job 2:9 And when much time had passed, his wife said to him, How long will you hold out, saying, “Behold, I wait yet a little while, expecting the hope of my deliverance”? because, behold, your memorial is abolished from the earth: sons and daughters, the pangs and pains of my womb which I bore in vain with sorrows; and you yourself sit down to spend the nights in the open air among the corruption of worms, and I am a wanderer and a servant from place to place and house to house, waiting for the setting of the sun, that I may rest from my labors and my pangs which now beset me. But say some word against Him and die.” I had a book titled " Fortunate The Eyes That See", a book that was produced as an honorary gift for a Jewish Bible scholar with many essays one named "The Portrayal of Job’s Wife and Her Representation in the Visual Arts" by Dr. Tzfira Gitay, who is a scholar who holds a doctorate in Art History; she is married to professor Yehoshua Gitay, who is a renowned Jewish Bible scholar. And Mrs. Gitay from what she wrote she seems not to know about the Septuagint version of Job. Yet, she wrote (quote): “There is a consistent attempt to eliminate Job’s wife from the numerous activities in which her husband was involved, and in which she too had been involved as a passive participant or a partner in the marriage. One would have expected her to voice an opinion, or for that matter a statement, but not silence. After all, Job may have been on trial, but his wife also lost all her worldly possessions, her children died, and her husband suffered physically with boils.” Over the years, I have collected and deeply scrutinized many verses for comparison over the years and charted them and i would love to share my findings with those who beleeve that "the proof is in the pudding" as the figurative saying goes. Just email me and i will send you the very refined chart in an email attachment and i will not initial any further emails but will gladly communicate and collaborate with someone who is intrested in it and the history surrounding the subject which I have studied for 5 years as a loner without any ties or affiliations or debts to any but our Abba, Father, Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. hilohouserepairs@gmail.com Thank you and God Bless. Ted
Some people cling to the KJV because it has some peculiar wordings that become misused to twist pure doctrine. For example... Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Now we have prosperity and NAR teachers who believe that faith is an actual substance, instead of understanding that the word "substance" is better translated here as "foundation". It's not the fault of the KJV, it's how we use it and why we choose its wordings to prop up our colloquial views regardless of the truth.
I like the Kjv. And this verse came up in a debate I was having with an atheist. It was over his view that faith is blind belief and some newer translations make his argument stronger. Im glad you put foundation, is there a version that says that? Substance seems like it could be like foundation, more likely to be closer to the actual meaning. The Kjv translators did due diligence, but I'm not a Kjv only. Anyway, hope you are doing well. The debating over truth is needed, but I think kindness important. What translation in english do you prefer? I have several. Thanks for your comment. May the Lord bless you.
My question would be then, "Why have we abandoned it for the Mesoretic text? Granted i have no problem with the Hebrew Masoretic text, but i bought a translation of the Greek septuagint text, and it does a better job at showing the Messianic prophecies. They are clearer. I guess it makes more sense to me to stick closer to the earlier church, not to mention the new testament quotes out of the septuagint the vast majority of the time. Now im aware the Mesoretic text is not strictly just one text, and there is not just one septuagint. But why do we not have a complete bible with the Greek Septuagint for the old testament?
Martin Luther and Jerome unfortunately. Jerome was one of the first significant figure to prefer the Hebrew over the Greek. Because he was commissioned by the pope to initially translate the Septuagint into latin over a period of 30 years and frequently consulting with Jewish leaders, he was convinced the Hebrew book was superior and that we should go back to hebrew text. Augustine had huge problems with Jerome and they exchanged multiple letters. Because the Pope also died before Jerome could finish his work, he could have very easily get away with translating from the Hebrew canon. They had three church councils because of him and all of them declared the apocrypha books as scripture. This is why the Catholic bible has Masoretic texts in it but also the Apocryphal books as well. Martin Luther wanted to reorganise the bible even more radically by restructuring it. But he was using a Catholic bible and moved all the apochrya books to a different section because they didn't fit with his doctrines which was primarily the topic he had issues with. But he still wanted to keep them in the Bible. It was only 200 years after that they got rid of the apochrya section completely due to money reasons.
@@BeastofBrooklyn Negative on that one. I had an OSB and while it corrects some OT Messianic prophecies and contains Apocrypha....it's still just an NKJV. It's a NKJV with a sprinkling of Septuagint. It still uses a lot of Masoretic all over the place. Better off with something like the Brenton Septuagint, NETS, or LES. I prefer the Brenton for the older, KJV-like language. Only big con with the Brenton is the small English font.
Having limited knowledge about this whole matter, I believe the problem is that the Hebrew version that Sept. was translated from are missing. I was always irritated by the fact that OT verses quoted in the NT seemed slightly different. Okay now we know why, but the point is even the Sept. is based on a different Hebrew text. So going back to Hebrew is great but it needs to be "the right" one or at least the one that matches with the one the Sept. is based on.
That's a really interesting question I hadn't thought of before I think in general in all translation (probably rightly has a preference for the original language I think modern OT texts review variants from the mesoretic the dead sea scrolls and the LXX I think for textual questions we should go with the variants the NT goes with not just because the NT is inspired but also because: A) the NT itself is older than the mesoretic text B) NT manuscripts are older than mes manuscripts C) The septaugint is older than the mes text
The bottom line, only the spirit of truth can reveal ALL TRUTH to believers which he certainly can and does. The kingdom is like a treasure HIDDEN in a field! Not everyone is ordained to find it.
Hullo! Just found this myself, but if you look up Alpha and Omega Ministries up on TH-cam, it seems to be Dr. James White's channel for things like podcasts and such. I could be wrong, as I've not yet watched one of the videos on the channel, but you could give it a try.
Thank you both so much for that, I have no idea why I didn’t think to look that up. I am a wife and mom of three and homeschool so when I see these gems pop up I click and listen as I go about my day. Thank you both so much! God bless!
@@jesussaves8929 I'm happy to have been able to help! If you have any other questions, would like recommendations for other channels like Alpha and Omega Ministries (i.e. Reformed, thorough preaching, etc.) I'd be glad to give a (albeit small) list.
@ James White: You pointed out, correctly, that Erasmus dedicated his translation to Pope Leo, who denounced Luther. However, I think it would be fair of you to point out another very significant fact, namely that Erasmus finished his life in the company of his Protestant friends, and was buried in a small early Protestant graveyard. In other words, he eventually rejected the Papacy
But when he was working on the translation, did he already have a view that challenged the papacy's views? How long did it take for him to rejected the papacy after he finished the translation?
@@demsyciu We may be confusing two different issues: 1. How people's views about the Papacy changed during the early days of the Reformation and 2. How accurately Erasmus and other scholars translated the Greek texts available to them. Both Erasmus and Luther took some time to fully disengage from Roman Catholicism; Luther's 95 theses merely called for reform of the church, not for a new church to be formed. Can you point to a single word that either Erasmus or Luther mistranslated because they were still Rmon Catholics at the time of their translations. I doubt it. Both got rid of that awful mistake of Jerome in his 'Vulgate', mistranslating 'repent as 'do penance. Erasmus became a Protestant at the end of his life. Did he then think he had mistranslated anything? I very much doubt it
Anthony Bennett- Why would Erasmus 'translate' the Greek text/s? What is the benefit of translating Greek into Greek? I believe that D.E. is known for 'editing' the Greek. There is vagueness to this story that deserves to be properly developed. I have noticed that many don't understand what Erasmus actually did or intended to do with the available texts. What do you think?🤔🤓
@@duranbailiff5337 Hi. My phrasing above was clumsy. Erasmus *prepared* both Greek and Latin New Testaments. The Greek was obviously the master collation of manuscripts as of course the New Testament was actually written in koine Greek. You could argue that his Latin compilation was simply an amendment of Jerome's Vulgate; alternatively it was a *translation* from Greek to Latin. This famous text of Erasmus was very soon accepted as 'the real deal' and translations of this text, now known as the Textus Receptus, were soon made into German, English, Dutch etc.
Lord Jesus said: “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hid in a field. When a man found it, he hid it; and because of the joy it produces, goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field” (Matthew 13:44). According to Origen of Alexandria (AD 184-254), “the field” in this parable figuratively represents the sacred Scripture. Ferdinand Hitzig, an eminent scholar of the Bible, is said to have said to his students, “Have you a Septuagint? If not, sell all you have, and buy one.” God Bless.
Wayne lawson John 12:36:41 quotes passages from Isaiah 6. In verse 41 it specifically says “glory” which is the word used in the LXX as the Hebrew says the train of his robe.
How can we send questions to Bro. White and receive answers in a private manner? I'm sure he doesn't have much time for such things, but figured it would be worth asking.
Here is one of the proofs that the KJV uses the LXX. Not sure if the translators did or Erasmus did or the quotation was simply in the few Greek texts that Erasmus used to create the TR. Matthew 4:6 KJV [6] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Notice the phrase “lest at anytime.” If one goes back to Psalm 91:11-12 is the Masoretic Hebrew the phrase is not there. But if we look at the LXX look what we see. Psalm 91:11-12 (90:11-12) LXX For he shall give his angels charge concerning thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up on their hands, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. The KJVO cannot deny the Septuagint. Sure they be like Anderson and claim it was corrupt but if they go that route then they have to admit that the Bible is corrupt since this among many other quotations prove that the NT writers quoted from the LXX.
That would be a completely pointless endeavor. Singer is a rabid, antichrist. All he does is mock and ridicule anything related to Christianity. He already put out a video on the Septuagint and totally slandered and trashed it. He says it's totally corrupted. He even suggested the Dead Sea Scrolls, which prove the correctness of the LXX (and its ancient connection to the original Hebrew) were garbage, throw-away Scrolls and that's why they were discarded in some caves. He's a total tool...just like Steve Anderson.
WasLostButNowAmFound Exactly! KJV Onlyism banks on the idea that their listeners are ignorant of facts and too lazy to research it themselves. That’s the only way the sales pitch works.
I agree with James that the Septuagint predates the NT and was the Scripture of choice for the apostles. I would go so far as to say that the reason the apostles were predominantly quoting from the LXX was because they were Greeks. Think about it, not even one NT book was ever written in Palestine by a Jew. Not one! All were written in other places, mostly in Greece. And most of the Epistles are addressed to Greek communities. Practicing Jews couldn’t have written such articulate, refined Greek. That’s precisely why the Septuagint was so important to the early Christians and why its use in liturgy and homiletics was so prevalent down through the centuries. So, I agree with James that the Septuagint is an excellent translation and a very important work that predates the Masoretic text by many centuries. Recently, it has been wrongfully attacked mainly by Jewish apologists and the King James Only movement! Both have an axe to grind!
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge I’m not sure what your point is. My comments are all based on well-known documented facts. If you’re suggesting that I’ve made inaccurate statements, then you should at least correct me by furnishing accurate & detailed evidence, not with vague comments of no substance.
Do you think it could be Jesus quoted from the Hebrew reading the Septuagint preserved rather than Him reading the Greek? A reading lost from the Hebrew centuries later?
@@aaronman3352 Possibly, but then the quotes from Jesus would be word for word according to the later used Septuagint and not the Hebrew translations that we use in our modern versions.
@@calvinpeterson9581 Thats a really good point, why would Jesus match word for word in Greek? That might come to are the words inspired or the meaning of the passage.
1) The LXX does not follow the Hebrew tripartite division but changes the order of the books to the categories of Law, History, Poetry and Prophecy. 2) The chief uncial Mss (i.e. written on parchment in semi-capital style letter, which were used for the N.T. till about 800 A.D. and of which about 300 exist today) are "A" and "B", both of Egyptian origin and yet they "vary considerably" from each other. "A" is Codex Alexandrinus and "B" is Codex Vaticanus. Both contain most of the O.T. and N.T. and their O.T. text is the LXX text. 3) The original LXX text of the Book of Job was very much shorter than the Hebrew text ... the translator left large portions out! 4) In the books of Esther and Daniel the LXX has NUMEROUS ADDITIONS, which are not found in the Hebrew text. Who authorised these additions? 5) The LXX frequently changes the order of the text, especially in Jeremiah chapters 25 - 51. That sounds just like Moffatt's English translation, doesn't it?6) The two chief LXX mss of the book of Judges vary very much from each other. Which one is to be trusted? 7) There is no authentic LXX version available today ... ANYWHERE! That is, if there ever was such a thing as an "authentic" LXX version. 8) Today's LXX actually has Theodotion's translation of the book of Daniel in it. Why did the original translation of the book of Daniel have to be dropped? Theodotion, a Hellenistic Jewish scholar made his translation around 180 - 190 A.D. That's about 400 years after the LXX translation was supposedly made. 9) The LXX text of Jeremiah very clearly has two different authors. The first author translated chapters 1 - 28; the rest was done by a different person. 10) The LXX text preserves several non-canonical books, known as apocryphal books. On what authority are such books included with the Word of God?
Jesus Christ and the Apostles quote the LXX more often than the Masoretic Text (.i.e. the modern day Hebrew Old Testament is the Masoretic Text). So if what ever the sources are for the LXX if they were good enough for Jesus Christ and his Apostles then I promise they are way safer to use then what ever the Masoretic Text is and is based off of.
Seeing as the samaritans 1. dont believe the sanctity of Jerusalem or 2. dont believe in the prophets 3. dont beleive in the writings, etc., why do you think we should care about what their fake bible says?
Anderson's views on this really surprise me (and I'm coming from a neutral stance of liking some of his sermons and disliking others), because I've seen his sermon on the Jews. There's a huge disconnect in his views there. On the one hand he believes today's Jews are not true Jews and evil (he takes it pretty far - he wasn't just saying Jews without Christ are lost), yet on the other hand he believes that they preserved the scriptures centuries after rejecting the Messiah, that they should be trusted over the church fathers. Seems like you can't have both of those.
Pastor Steven Anderson is very disconnected from history of the septuagint. It was clearly used by the apostles. Waw! The Holy Spirit speaking through the apostles was pleased to use quotations from it when formulating the New Testament! Amen. Anderson also quite wilfully moves past the history of the formation of the TR - and ignores the history of the man who work on it. Dr White is right to say if the shoe was on the other foot he would preach 47 sermons on it. It is hard to take Anderson seriously, when he behaves like this. He is suppressing the truth. One would expect this of an atheist when he is suppressing the truth about God - and when there are things that he doesn't want to bring to the surface in public debate. But let them that seek the truth, face the truth and speak the truth.
Hey Jim, coming late to this (sorry I don't like "X"), but one verse (because I've studied so much about it, I know there must be others like this!), comes to mind when Andersen goes on about how much better the KJV is because it followed the Hebrew rather than the Septuagint or the Vulgate would be: Job 26:10 because the KJV (and ALL of the English translations before it) use a view of that verse relating to a TIME WHEN "light and darkness" _come to an_ (none of that phrase being in the Hebrew) "end". The reality is that Job 26:10 speaks about a "circle" or "border" between the light (day) and darkness (night). So what does Andersen say about KJV verses which clearly DO NOT FOLLOW the Hebrew, but rather something else?!
Well the Sadducees, who Believed in predestination, merged with Hellenist theology that included, pagan rituals were the framers of the Septugint. Yes the predestination debate goes all the way back to the two religous groups of the Jews. The two translations are both considered Koine. The King James used the Masorite translation for Hebrew, and the Textus Receptus for the Greek. The only part of the King James that uses the Septugint is no longer found it was the Apocryphal books.
I used to follow Anderson but he has so much anger to be a preacher. I'ma KJV user but I am not a KJV onlyest but I am a KJV only for me type person. I have many brothers and sisters who use other translations of the Bible and I love them and look at them as brothers and sisters. The point is they understand and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ the basic founding principles of the Christian faith though there are differences when it comes to eschatology. I've never read the Septuagint but I should probably read it and I should get more familiar with the church fathers.
Hi Dr. White, I have been searching about what you have much knowledge already Just as I start to believe that the Critical text is good I hear or read something that puts me back a spot again, I'm working on learning more The latest issue I am trying to see about is Psalms 115:14,15 The KJV and the ESV are very different. One says MAY and another says SHALL...one says more and more and the other don't What do I do about this, why is there such a huge difference it this passage and can you give me something to go to? Thank you very much
1,250 years were deflated from the current Hebrew text's Genesis 5 chronologies : read about and see the charted tallies of solid textual proof in the ultra-professional " MT, SP, or LXX? Deciphering a Chronological and Textual Conundrum in Genesis 5" - Associates for Biblical Research (biblearchaeology.org) biblearchaeology.org/research/biblical-chronologies/4349-mt-sp-or-lxx-deciphering-a-chronological-and-textual-conundrum-in-genesis
In a synagogue in the 1st century, one could only read the Hebrew scrolls or the Targum (a translation of the Hebrew Bible into Aramaic). Greek was forbidden. Recall that Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the Solomon’s temple circa 170 BC. Thus, the need for Herod to build the 2nd temple. The Jews of the 1st century despised the Greeks, for that and other reasons. The only evidence for a BC Septuagint is the letter of Aristeas, which no one believers but everyone quotes. It is a fantastic tale (read fantasy). There is no reference to a Septuagint prior to 50 AD (+/-). If you trace all the reference to a BC Septuagint, you will find that each and every on them references the Letter of Aristeas in one form or another. So, the only witness to a BC Septuagint is the Letter of Aristeas (LOA) If one believes the LOA, one has to believe also that the 10 northern tribes of Israel were not dispersed to four winds after 721 BC. From this diaspora they never returned. Rather you have to believe that they were still in Israel in 285 BC, since the LOA claims that 12 scribes from each of the 12 tribes of Israel were assembled in Egypt. Incidentally, a land to which the Jews were forbidden ever to return to. Deuteronomy 28:68. Only the Levites were to handle the scriptures (with the exception of the King who had to make a copy for himself). So, one has to add to that belief that 72 scribes (not Levites) defiled themselves among the Greeks and defied the scriptures and God’s wishes in order to handle the scriptures as well as going to a land to which they were forbidden ever to return. More so, add to that belief, that 72 scribes, each without a copy of the Hebrew scriptures, translated them from memory into Greek in 72 days and every single word was identical all the while being locked up in 72 chambers on the isle of Pharos without any collaboration between them. And by the way, why is it called LXX "The 70"? And may I say ”Incidentally” again? Incidentally, the Pharos light house was not built until 280 BC, 5 years after the blessed event. A minor point. To sum up, we are to believe that God inspired the work of 72 (not 70) disobedient, non-Levitical scribes who rendered 72 identical copies of the Hebrew scriptures from memory into Greek. Really? Incidentally, the LOA section 176 also says that the whole scroll was written in gold. Really? Where is it? You’d think that someone would have a vested interest in preserving such a priceless document. Where is it? It doesn’t exist! Finally, If you were to get a copy of the Septuagint, you would find that it is nothing more than the Old Testament portions of the codex Alexandrinus, the codex Sinaiticus and the codex Vaticanus, along with the Apocrypha. If you believe that Jesus quoted from the Septuagint, you have to also believe that Jesus endorsed the Apocrypha. Including purgatory! Really?
Compare Hebrews 8:9 to Jeremiah 31:32 and tell my why your Protestant Bible got it wrong. Yes, Jesus and the Apostles quoted the LXX and the closest Christians to Christ, Paul etc. had a different Bible than you Prots.
Oh theres a lot of documents older than the book of Moses. You need to stop saying "there are maybe some babylonian documents"... There are Tons and Tons of books. Theres the writing of the old and middle egyptian empire. Theres the Rig Veda thats still in use. Theres the Egyptian book of the dead. The Babylonian stuff, its more than just a few, and the Sumerian stuff. Theres the Zoroastrian book.
@@jesseewynn9467 did you read them? The Old Testament verses read 70 and the New Testament verse state 75. There is obviously an error here. King James onliest believe that their translation is error free. This is only one of many examples I could give. All Masoretic based Bibles will have the same issue regardless of translation.
@@dlbard1 I don't think those are really contradictions. One account gives a precise amount, and another gives an estimate. This is done in the KJV Old Testament more than once. Also, the Masoretic text is reliable.
@@jesseewynn9467 Estimates are usually given in large figures in the Bible, I'll agree that it is done, but we're talking about a small, easily counted number. There's no reason to believe that these are estimate in these passages. You said the Masoretic is reliable, have you read anything else? How do you know if it's reliable if you've not compared it to anything? How do you explain that when the Old Testament scriptures are quoted in the New Testament over 90% of the time agree with the LXX and not the Hebrew? Do you know that there are early Christian writings which criticized the Masoretic text as being altered?
@@dlbard1 You didn't read what I said on the explanation for both of those references. One is a precise number, the other is just an estimation. You are going to have to show how that interpretation is incoherent or wrong. Otherwise, you're just going to have to take back your accusation of the KJV as a good intellectually honest young boy.
We don't have the original Hebrew. I didn't hear him be honest about bibles being translated from the Masoretic translation of the Hebrew old testament. Which history shows was corrupted. And the reason?? Was to try and debunk Yeshua as the Messiah... And the thing about Steven Anderson. In my spirit, I feel He has a gift from God. And will have to answer for it. My spirit identifies with his. But, he is going against his own heart.. For what purpose?? Knowing the devil and his ways and seeing what man often doesn't, has him trapped. In his heart he knows it. But, pride goeth before a fall. We should pray for him. He truly has a gift, the enemy just has him in chains. Chains of tradition, familial influences, and other snares. We should pray for his deliverance, him to be pricked in his heart, him to have the courage to stand for what he hears in his heart, no matter what the cost of it. God is an all consuming fire. He is also soooooo long suffering. Yeshua said learn of me for I am meek and lowly at heart. Let us approach each other in this way. There are times for a stiff rebuke. And thus far, I have only been lead to do that with Judaizers.
One teaching from Christ, if He had given such a teaching, would have been the corruption within Jerusalem, the temple, and synagogue's use of the word or mistranslation of the Septuagint texts that existed at that time. If His Word had been corrupted He would have spoken out about its misuse. If there is evidence of the Word being corrupted He most likely would have given voice to that. Anderson makes a correlation with the Septuagint being corrupted because it is in Greek rather than Hebrew. But which Hebrew is he referring to? First temple Hebrew or 2nd temple Hebrew. That's how they actually can access which period artifacts come from in the ruins under the city in this present day. There are two (perhaps more) forms the Hebrew existed in from Solomon's time and first century A.D. time. And there were probably corrupted texts of the Septuagint from their original writings (2nd century B.C.) as those used in the fourth century A.D. And corrupted texts can come about through mistranslation or translation through ideological lenses. I think what Anderson displays the most is not a persuasive argument but rather a tiny amount of research. He only goes down roads of thought that reinforce what he believes. He feels comfort in his ignorance rather than a willingness to expand his reasoning and understanding. He only studies to argue and reinforce how he perceives. He lacks discernment which means there is less evidence of the Holy Spirit within him. He can think logically about what is in the words printed within the KJV but would probably argue heavily against the original authorized version first printed with the king's name on it. It's really sad he has such a prominent position from which he reaches people. We, the spectators to his drama and anger, see a man who has been given a platform to lead a group through strong man tactics and rage rather than a unifying collaboration of belief. Those people fear him. They could leave him but I think they would bear the front of retaliation through character assassination by him. So they don't. I've watched many clips of him and it usually involves protecting his own reputation or confronting any disagreement by his own flock or outside influence such as James White. It appears to be a cult there.
I just wander what he thinks or even knows he thinks or knows of Origen's Hexlapa? I am not saying Origin was the best of the best as far as ancient scholars but when you start learning more of what he did or wanted to do...no do not believe he castrated himself.
the greek texts were not the only scriptures. you have the samarian texts, and the ones found in the dead sea scrolls,. plus the masoretic texts. Jesus did quote the greek texts 75% of the time put he also quotes the masoretic texts. people used what was available to them
The preface to the KJV doesn't exactly say what you claim it says. It says God looked well upon them because they had the desire to do a good thing, but it is full of error, brought by ignorance.
Is there a readily available Old Testament in English that comes from the Greek Septuagint? Yes there is!! Its called the Orthodox Study Bible. Major book places have it.
you're = you are... And?! Do you know that all knowledge is an infinite regress? So, in order to know anything at all, you would have to be taught by another man. Look into epistemology some time. Your comment makes no sense. You think it's a good jab but, you really just look foolish.
You know what’s appalling is listening to him say Esau was a decent guy and thatSimon Magnus is probably in heaven (repented). Seriously. Steve Anderson is a false teacher to the upteenth degree.
They've been proven to be frauds. Early this year the Dead Sea scrolls here in America were proven to be frauds, and after that was announced the Israeli government refused to allow theirs to be tested. Kinda a coincidence they were found the year Israel became a country huh? Lol
@@jeremyjames1659 just because people forged some for money and sold them to private institutions doesn’t mean literally all of them are fakes lmao We know from dating the scroll material, dating the ink (very important obviously), and scribal practices that most all the scrolls are legitimate. Why are you desperate to discredit them, anyways? We’re one step closer to the autograph Old Testament, and there are a lot of enlightening textual variants. It’s not like this is the New Testament, where the Byzantine Text obviously takes the cake; with the OT, new discoveries are exciting.
Clearly had the Hebrew only Pharisees let their sheeple see what the Greek Septuagint says, they could have prevented a Holocaust. The Septuagint says, "“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but A BODY YOU PREPARED FOR ME; 6 with burnt offerings (HOLOkotoma) and sin offerings you were not pleased." (Ps. 40-Greek Septuagint) Also confirmed in Hebrews 10:5-7 and speaking of Messiah Jesus. The Greek word for 'Whole Burnt Offering' in Greek is HOLOkotoma, from where we get the word 'HOLOcaust'. Instead, they tamper with the Hebrew Maz text and have God saying that he opened their ears. "40 Some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard this, and they asked Him, “Are we blind too?” 41“If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. BUT SINCE YOU CLAIM YOU CAN SEE, YOUR GUILT REMAINS.” (Jn. 9)
Yeah i have seen that I support the septuigent and I know the early church definitely used it and quotes from it. I understand the are more "historical" than scripture, just never felt right but yeah man ill re watch the video
Because many Jews before and during the time of Christ accepted those books. The Church merely received those books from the Jews. The Judean Pharisees were not the end-all-be-all of 1st century Judaism.
Jesus Christ and the Apostles quote the LXX more often than the Masoretic Text (.i.e. the modern day Hebrew Old Testament is the Masoretic Text). So if what ever the sources are for the LXX if they were good enough for Jesus Christ and his Apostles then I promise they are way safer to use then what ever the Masoretic Text is and is based off of.
"they were Calvinists".... well, nobody is perfect, Luther was an antisemite like Steve Anderson is, and most protestants idolize his reformation work... thank God they are not my standard for faith and practice.
The Septuagint is ancient. Ancient doesn't mean good. The Devil is ancient too. The Septuagint, while having some historical usefulness, is not the inspired scripture. The KJV is a much better translation. I'd recommend hearing "Why So Many Bible Versions? The UNTOLD Dark History of Bible Translations | Battle of the Bibles" - Walter Veith
This is a joke the Septuagint is correct. th-cam.com/video/VI1yRTC6kGE/w-d-xo.html Here is a great video on the correct Septuagint genealogies when it comes to Shem and his offspring. The Jews altered the Masoretic text to try and make Shem Melchizedek to disqualify the book of Hebrews claims about Jesus as our High Priest. They have Shem outliving multiple generations through Abraham. This created problems with the flood timeline and opened the door to many Atheist critiques pointing to the pyramids existing before the flood and the time it takes to repopulate enough people to build the tower of Babel.
JAMES why use a Bible created from the corrupted text of Jerome AD 382. ...Jerome admits to altering the text..........you seek a bad version with a strong will and gusto .....
@@mattsweeney9618 have you ever met him?, read his books or actually seen him preach? Or are you just repeating some line that you heard from someone elae?
@@mattsweeney9618 he was wrong about that....his stance is that it shouldn't be illegal because the government cannot and should not legislate morality. He was never pro abortion. This hardly makes him a heretic
I think the church should embrace KJV as our universal text. It's a solid, annointed translation that anchored our faith for centuries. We should use it for devotions and, wherever possible, for sermons. We need the unity. Various modern translations are beneficial for delving into details, clarifying history and Bible study.
.50 - The two Bibles of the early Church were the Peshitta (AD 150's) and the OLD Latin Vulgate (not to be mistaken for the Latin Vulgate (AD 400's), of the AD 150s also. These two bibles were around and used for 250 yeara before Jerome's Latin Vulgate of the 400s. And watch out, James White is the leading "crept in unawares" men who "corrupt" the Word of God "bringing in damnable heresies."
It should be clear the LXX is the superior translation between the two. It's older, Christ and the apostles quoted from it and the Dead Sea Scrolls agree with it when there is a discrepancy between the two.
@@earvinwilliams8140 That's what a college taught you, which you wasted your money and time for a bunch of sideshow 50 cent words. "Study to show yourself approved unto God," now there are some billion dollar words; preserved in the KJB - by the blood of God and His elect (servants). Not one drop of - Righteous blood - was ever shed over the LXX, which is from Nazi, Germany in the 1940s', originally called the Septuagint, from Adamantius Origen (a heretic, A.D. 184-254), from Alexander, Egypt. Read and weep, The *Mythological Septuagint, the LXX (the supposed Greek OT of c. 250 BC). When Philo came on the scene in AD 30s', whom as far as anyone knows, started the whole lie with the Letter of Aristobulus’, which is doubtful at best. The Letter of Aristeas was supposed to have been “revised” by him. This letter has been proven to be a FAKE as far back as Dr. Hody, AD 1705! (The Septuagint, that is claimed to exist in 250 BC has no extant manuscripts before c. AD 350, and no real evidence for it either before this date! The Septuagint is nothing but the fifth column of Origen’s Hexapla, c. AD 220, which the Hexapla is not extant.) Sorry, Pal, you've been lied to, now, be a wiseman and REPENT and BELIEVE and RECEIVE and TRUST in the LIVING GOD, the Lord Jesus Christ. And if you REALLY have a brain in your head -then return to the Written Jesus, the King Jesus (James) Bible.
Here is some more evidence, The Hebrew and Greek languages are beautiful and important when from the “true” Masoretic and the Greek Textus Receptus texts, and from the English language in the “true” Bible and English dictionaries*, etc., but any language from the “corrupted” Septuagint (also known as the LXX), Codex Alexandrinus, Codex Vaticanus, Caesarean family, Codex Bezae, and Codex Sinaiticus and any “corrupted word helps” (dictionaries, word study guides, concordances, etc.) of any kind from reprobate churches following the Hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church-are not. (*Certain key English dictionary definitions of certain words have been changed in the last 250+ years, so that they would discredit the KJB’s words, thus, these corrupted lexicographers made these dictionaries an authority over the KJB, and this was the first step, just before the onslaught of the M.V.'s, to under-mind the authority of the KJB.)
It's sad to hear Dr. White say that Jesus and the Apostles used the LXX which is completely outdated among scholars in Israel. The Hebrew Jews read from the Hebrew Scriptures called the Proto-MT. They were NOT Greek Jews.
SwordOfTheLord Where are you getting your information? How do you know they quoted from the LXX? All you are doing is looking at a 3rd to 4th century Greek OT and NT translation and comparing them to each other? If I look at a Latin Bible and compare the OT and NT does that mean the Apostles quoted from a Latin text? No! You don’t know what you are saying. Your position is circular. Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the Proto-MT text and that is a fact. There is no LXX texts found any where within Jerusalem or the near surrounding areas. You are relying on outdated sources. Sorry, White is wrong.
CurtTheGamer Can you please explain how? You are reading a Greek New Testament with Greek Old Testament so you don’t think they will match up? Does that mean the Apostles wrote in Greek? No. If I read a Latin New Testament with a Latin Old Testament and the match up in quotation does that mean the Apostles wrote in Latin? No. It’s a false premise.
@@dralgarza No two translations of the same book read exactly the same, because different translators use different style. It really strains credibility to claim the Septuagint "just happens" to match up with the OT quotes in the NT. No two people would have translated them the exact same way.
@@curtthegamer934 You have to assume first that the NT was written in Greek. You cannot come to that conclusion unless you start with a false premise. Also, Jesus and the Apostles did not read or use the LXX. That is a historical fact. You are outdated in your sources. Sorry, you are wrong.
lxx have problme hebrew have problem no perfcet alone nt also need both of them numbers problem and other else many ot stream corruoted cahnged not fixed variation in lxx transmission also
So James White doesn't even believe that either the greek OT or Hebrew OT we have available are perfect and inerrant? Imagine not having any faith at all in God's promise.
11:30 what about a great example of the modern Christ-birth advent 1844-1874 is that Irish Anglican archbishop Ussher has 350 years of judges (1446-1096bc) despite ironically his dates are put into the King James (KJV) whose Acts 13:20 says God gave them forefathers until-450 of judges, instead of God gave them forefathers for 450-until judges (of 350).
I understand the back and forth videos. James White tries to correct Steven Anderson's numerous errors but is more often then not akin to attempting to paddle up a waterfall. Let's eliminate the middle man and get them both in a public, moderated debate (like that will ever happen, Steven Anderson being the monologue king....)....
How about the one word that was mistranslated on purpose? The word CHURCH!!!!!! This was purposeful... How does Ekklesia=Church???? They are not the same. Church is a temple driven, it is a word that gives rise to the system of what we have. Not a living body of called out believers who ALL supply to the needs of the body. Who have all things in common. Who love each other as they love themselves. We have a system that has corrupted the name of God/Jesus and How and Who The Holy Spirit is... The word Church is repulsive. Called out ones. Called out from all systems. Religious, educational, political, scientific.... out of this system. Come out of the beast and the harlot. If anyone reads this, I don't know, but if you do hear it.
Yes! I say we depend upon a series of dudes who are ruled by political and worldly goals. Surely, Sacred Scripture must take a back seat to that line of broken succession.
I was raised in a KJVO baptist school. Later in life I studied biblical Greek and biblical criticism. From my own experience, 0% of the loudest preachers had a M.Div. 99.9% had just a B.R.E. (no Greek whatsoever, more of an English Bible history degree). The kindest of them, who did not scream, probably did ok with their BRE or institute diploma. However, the second they veered into the doctrine of inspiration, providence, predestination, or biblical criticism, look out, because here comes the Arminian / common sense school / semi-Pelagian / anti-intellectual inferiority complex. The irony with the Hyles crowd is they love to shower each other in honorary doctorates. Then those guys start talking about Hebrew and Greek, with their English Bible backgrounds, and they have no idea what they are talking about. They parrot the vocabulary without understanding what those words mean.
Men of high degree are a lie. You stated above that you were raised KJ, never believed it, had no revelation regarding its authority, and were moved backwards via dead languages.
So much of this would be hilarious _if it was not_ so, so SERIOUS whenever we speak about how to handle the Word of God when delivering it to others! These "ministers" need to study more sermons and books of the scholarly "Reformed" part of their faith today! And some classes on Logic (as it comes from the mind of God) wouldn't hurt either... all while keeping in mind how important it is to tremble before the Almighty God in giving an account of how you did your best and spent time like the Apostle Paul did before claiming to speak for Him (without any self-promotion, pride and wallowing in a self-imposed ignorance as if it were some kind of 'badge of the faith')!!!
Didn't Paul the apostel write the KJV and then it was translated back into Greek and Hebrew?
That's 100% the truth.
How'd you end up there?
@@mishkakasalapiy3222 'Tis a miracle.
tintinismybelgian - lol
Yup, and if it was good enough for the Apostle Paul.....
Steve Anderson engages in a form of biblioidolatry. I was raised KJV and I cannot tell you how many pastors lied (or were just ignorant) of how modern translations were derived. To think he knows what he's talking about in regards to the Septuagint............well.
I have found some disturbing differences between the Septuagint and the Masoretic Text that warrants this question. Did the Jewish scribes who wrote the Masoretic Hebrew Text have a problem with Jesus being the Messiah and did they have a problem with the New Testament writings that would cause them to change certain words or even verses in the new text. Are there any books discussing this that are reliable resources?
The fact that they claim it is 100% accurate tells me all I need to know. The Septuagint has some minor issues but for the most part it is a very good translation. thanks@@HansTyndale
This is the Question I been wondering …what did you come up with ?
Didn’t they find the Dead Sea scrolls, and Isaiah is pretty much 100% in agreement with the masoretic text.
The bigger concern should be the evidence of the Septuagint not being created after Jesus.
Only piece of evidence being the letter aristeas is not good.
Chick publications has great information on this
@@jesuschrististhelord9937Vast majority of hebrew texts found in DSS match the Septuagint.
@@anthonylogiudice9215 false. They match the masorotic text. There is no evidence the Septuagint existed pre Jesus. It’s obvious who ever made the Septuagint was quoting the New Testament into the Old Testament.
The letter of aristeas (the only supposed evidence) is obviously a fake, it has historical facts 100% wrong the time like is inaccurate, and even the way it was written is so obviously a made up letter trying to verify the Septuagint.
It even says when they read this letter in the future.
Steven Anderson is the prime example of what religious zeal without balance will lead to
He prayed for Obama to get Brain cancer at his pulpit...This is more than just Zeal without balance, it goes MUCH deeper.
@@fishersofmen4727 wow!
Steven Anderson is nothing less than demonic.
Yeah he's way better than James. James is a tard Calvinist
@@fishersofmen4727 He also said that he wished that gay people would off themselves with a gun. He doesn't believe gay people can repent and would rather they'd all die and go to hell.
2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
A Greek scroll of the 12 minor prophets was found in a cave at Nahal Hever. It dates to around 50 BC. I guess Steve A didn't get the memo.
And carbon dating can be off as much as 200-300 years
. . . and, portions of the original Aramaic Tobit (in LXX) were found at Qumran.
And the other fragments were found in the Philippines that's why we have the iglesia ni kristo...♥️🤣♥️ lol.....
IFB pastors will die on this hill. It's a waste of time talking with them about it. It's like having a discussion with a brick wall.
Instead of IFB, why can't everybody be historically correct and call these guys Ruckmanites. Peter Ruckman is the guy that got all of this started. I grew up as an Independent, Fundamental Baptist affiliated with the Baptist Bible Fellowship. In those days the KJV was seen as best, but we also had a saying, "Jesus didn't speak English."
@@mlneale1959 Yes, people bash the IFB but it's not like INDEPENDANT fundamentalist baptists are some monolithic unit. The people they are trying to bash are basically just the lowest levels of ignorance in the church today (not all of which are IFB). I live in West Virginia so I see plenty of pastoral ignorance unfortunately.
Steven Anderson keeps pointing out that the Septuagint reads nothing like the originals. But neither does the Masoretic text match 100% the original Hebrew autographs.
The arguments over history and scripture are endless. At the end of days. It comes down to this. Who do you say I am? Is Jesus Lord of Lords, King of Kings. It will be "just" you and Jesus... The Word incarnate.
MOST KJV Onlyists CANNOT read Hebrew and will ignore anything you say that shows where the KJV and the Hebrew Text differ.
Pause at 16:19. And, sadly, KJV Onlyists say that the KJV and the Hebrew Text always say the SAME thing!!!!!!!!
KJV Onlyists NEVER want you to know that there were SEVERAL editions of the "TR".
The new testament writers used the septuagint. If God spoke to mankind it's doubtful we should have to struggle so hard to weed through texts to find the truth.
I'm not a calvinist but enjoy JW'S vlog/blogs
I'm not either but there's Calvinist pastors who very strongly agree with pastor Anderson on this. Check out the Back To The Greek documentary.
that's because you weren't predestined to be a calvinist so it's no biggy
@@thenoob9379 that’s your argument?
Same
Same, this is my list
Walter Martin
Walter Kaiser
Chuck Missler
Chuck Smith
Chuck Baldwin
Jacob Prasch
Dr. Robert Morey
RC Sproul
James White
Vernon McGee
John McArthur
Kent Hovind
Dave Hunt
Gary Habermas
Norman Geisler
Thank you Dr.White for this response to emotional Baptist Pastor :)
Pastor Steve do not know that LXX is the doyen of the Old Testament even its a translation but it is not according to the Rabbinical Commentaries therefor it is more Biblical then Rabbinical Masoretic Text.
Pastor Steve is traveling in the Rabbinical lines those are against about LXX because they are always defeated by Christians according to LXX on the issue of Promised Messiah who is Jesus of Nazareth and approved by the Scripture. therefore Rabbies brought emended text called Masoretic Text in 2nd AD and revised it many time according to Talmudic commentaries and and 1008 AD of the present oldest copy is also a question as you said in the Video where is the Oldest one of 2nd Century :) .
Pastor Steve is against about the Sinaiticus codex because he is Baptist Church Pastor :) because of the Gospel of Mark you know more then us because you are Dr. of Greek Language Sir. but Mark 16:16 is not present in this codex therefor Pastor Steve is against the Doyen of New Testament which is Codex Sinaiticus its Ok if historically we are coming towards Math 28:19 it minor issue.
I love your sentence about the TR :) and its fundamental base.
I am from Pakistan and love to study the history of the Biblical Manuscripts.
“All kinds of nonsense and garbage”? Does that include the passages that Our Lord and the Apostles quoted?
The numbers not adding up is actually in the masoretic texts
"No one takes it seriously", lol does he not realize the Septuagint is the authoritative bible for The Eastern Orthodox Church lol, the legit successor to the early Greek Christians.
It's is pretty much the official, Old testament of (some of Our Eastern Orthodox' Churches but not all.
@@christianorthodoxy4769 Meaning the Copts have their version as does The Aramaic Assyrian, Ethiopian Orthodox etc? According to the language of the people
That's the Russian Bible my parents have. Based on the Septuagint. Never got changed since it got translated into old slavic (Glagolitic, later Cyrillic).
I don't understand why so many Christians in the English speaking world use the NIV, translated by godless Atheists who really corrupted the Bible by erasing, adding everything what points to Jesus Christ as Son of God, our creator.
@@magistradox39 maybe because there is no protestant denomination bias.
I also don't like how the Masoretic is usually preferred over the LXX.
The Masoretic doesn't even make sense sometimes.
The New testament makes reference from the LXX most of the time or whatever greek translation of the Hebrew.
Plus the the council of Jamnia is fake.
Watch, I put these quotes and other quotes about the authenticity for archeology of the Bible.
th-cam.com/video/hsOT4PU28Lg/w-d-xo.html
The problem with Anderson is that he knows the accurate info of the things he presents. He’s a man who does research, but his traditions blind him from accepting the truth on a matter because he would lose his whole flock if he admitted error. The English text of the Old Testament in his KJV of the Bible is based on the Hebrew Masoretic (some LXX and some of the Latin Vulgate). He needs to understand that this Hebrew text came about in the 7th century A.D. and was completed in the 10th century A.D. It seems that Anderson is just repulsed by the idea of older texts that pre-date his precious KJV.
Jerome got fooled by the Jewish scribes when he was working with them in Palestine. He based his OT Latin translation directly on their hebrew texts instead of the superior and more accurate greek Septuagint OT. Jerome thought the hebrew text proffered by the Proto-Masoretic text. His contemporary, Augustine, pleaded with him not to do the translation this way. Anyhow, the church did not accept the Latin Vulgate until the Council of Trent which was a panicked move against the Reformation.
@@anthonylogiudice9215thanks for sharing.
I read the Septuagint in 2012 and again in 2019. Mine has also, the apocryphal books as well. It’s interesting to me. Daniel is different in that there are longer chapters and Esther is different in that, God is mentioned in the Septuagint. I love books of antiquity. Because of it, I researched unicorns. Rhinos! It’s a good read. Period.
Deb me too! Was brought up taught that those "other books" were bad. There is so much history to be learnt from them, it's a shame that they are not read by more people. I must add that I do not believe that they are scripture, with the exception of 1st Enoch.
@@dlbard1 Hi! I was wondering what your defense for the book of Enoch is? Why do you believe it is canon? 😀🙏
@@dlbard1 I want to believe in 1 Enoch, I really do. But how do you explain the 300 cubit tall giants? At the moment, I believe there is a "true" Enochic core, though.
@@Xenotypic maybe they built the pyramids lol
300 cubits is a mistranslation that has been carroed on for a long time
the following is all that the Masoretic Text (in the Bible) Job has about Mrs. Job : Job 2:9 Then his wife said to him, Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God, and die.
vs.
The Greek Septuagint Brenton Translation Job 2:9
And when much time had passed, his wife said to him, How long will you hold out, saying, “Behold, I wait yet a little while, expecting the hope of my deliverance”? because, behold, your memorial is abolished from the earth: sons and daughters, the pangs and pains of my womb which I bore in vain with sorrows; and you yourself sit down to spend the nights in the open air among the corruption of worms, and I am a wanderer and a servant from place to place and house to house, waiting for the setting of the sun, that I may rest from my labors and my pangs which now beset me. But say some word against Him and die.”
I had a book titled " Fortunate The Eyes That See", a book that was produced as an honorary gift for a Jewish Bible scholar with many essays one named "The Portrayal of Job’s Wife and Her Representation in the Visual Arts" by Dr. Tzfira Gitay, who is a scholar who holds a doctorate in Art History; she is married to professor Yehoshua Gitay, who is a renowned Jewish Bible scholar.
And Mrs. Gitay from what she wrote she seems not to know about the Septuagint version of Job. Yet, she wrote (quote):
“There is a consistent attempt to eliminate Job’s wife from the numerous activities in which her husband was involved, and in which she too had been involved as a passive participant or a partner in the marriage. One would have expected her to voice an opinion, or for that matter a statement, but not silence. After all, Job may have been on trial, but his wife also lost all her worldly possessions, her children died, and her husband suffered physically with boils.”
Over the years, I have collected and deeply scrutinized many verses for comparison over the years and charted them and i would love to share my findings with those who beleeve that "the proof is in the pudding" as the figurative saying goes.
Just email me and i will send you the very refined chart in an email attachment and i will not initial any further emails but will gladly communicate and collaborate with someone who is intrested in it and the history surrounding the subject which I have studied for 5 years as a loner without any ties or affiliations or debts to any but our Abba, Father, Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.
hilohouserepairs@gmail.com
Thank you and God Bless.
Ted
Some people cling to the KJV because it has some peculiar wordings that become misused to twist pure doctrine. For example...
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Now we have prosperity and NAR teachers who believe that faith is an actual substance, instead of understanding that the word "substance" is better translated here as "foundation". It's not the fault of the KJV, it's how we use it and why we choose its wordings to prop up our colloquial views regardless of the truth.
I like the Kjv. And this verse came up in a debate I was having with an atheist. It was over his view that faith is blind belief and some newer translations make his argument stronger. Im glad you put foundation, is there a version that says that? Substance seems like it could be like foundation, more likely to be closer to the actual meaning. The Kjv translators did due diligence, but I'm not a Kjv only. Anyway, hope you are doing well. The debating over truth is needed, but I think kindness important. What translation in english do you prefer? I have several. Thanks for your comment. May the Lord bless you.
@@thetruthshed I love the KJV, I probably quote the KJV over many other versions
My question would be then, "Why have we abandoned it for the Mesoretic text? Granted i have no problem with the Hebrew Masoretic text, but i bought a translation of the Greek septuagint text, and it does a better job at showing the Messianic prophecies. They are clearer. I guess it makes more sense to me to stick closer to the earlier church, not to mention the new testament quotes out of the septuagint the vast majority of the time. Now im aware the Mesoretic text is not strictly just one text, and there is not just one septuagint. But why do we not have a complete bible with the Greek Septuagint for the old testament?
Martin Luther and Jerome unfortunately. Jerome was one of the first significant figure to prefer the Hebrew over the Greek. Because he was commissioned by the pope to initially translate the Septuagint into latin over a period of 30 years and frequently consulting with Jewish leaders, he was convinced the Hebrew book was superior and that we should go back to hebrew text. Augustine had huge problems with Jerome and they exchanged multiple letters. Because the Pope also died before Jerome could finish his work, he could have very easily get away with translating from the Hebrew canon. They had three church councils because of him and all of them declared the apocrypha books as scripture. This is why the Catholic bible has Masoretic texts in it but also the Apocryphal books as well.
Martin Luther wanted to reorganise the bible even more radically by restructuring it. But he was using a Catholic bible and moved all the apochrya books to a different section because they didn't fit with his doctrines which was primarily the topic he had issues with. But he still wanted to keep them in the Bible. It was only 200 years after that they got rid of the apochrya section completely due to money reasons.
I recommend getting the Orthodox Study Bible, it's the closest and best thing we have to the LXX.
@@BeastofBrooklyn Negative on that one. I had an OSB and while it corrects some OT Messianic prophecies and contains Apocrypha....it's still just an NKJV. It's a NKJV with a sprinkling of Septuagint. It still uses a lot of Masoretic all over the place.
Better off with something like the Brenton Septuagint, NETS, or LES.
I prefer the Brenton for the older, KJV-like language. Only big con with the Brenton is the small English font.
Having limited knowledge about this whole matter, I believe the problem is that the Hebrew version that Sept. was translated from are missing. I was always irritated by the fact that OT verses quoted in the NT seemed slightly different. Okay now we know why, but the point is even the Sept. is based on a different Hebrew text. So going back to Hebrew is great but it needs to be "the right" one or at least the one that matches with the one the Sept. is based on.
That's a really interesting question I hadn't thought of before
I think in general in all translation (probably rightly has a preference for the original language
I think modern OT texts review variants from the mesoretic the dead sea scrolls and the LXX
I think for textual questions we should go with the variants the NT goes with not just because the NT is inspired but also because:
A) the NT itself is older than the mesoretic text
B) NT manuscripts are older than mes manuscripts
C) The septaugint is older than the mes text
The bottom line, only the spirit of truth can reveal ALL TRUTH to believers which he certainly can and does. The kingdom is like a treasure HIDDEN in a field! Not everyone is ordained to find it.
yes especially if youre reading the wrong text lol
Why, why does it always cut off? I love listening to you!
Hullo! Just found this myself, but if you look up Alpha and Omega Ministries up on TH-cam, it seems to be Dr. James White's channel for things like podcasts and such. I could be wrong, as I've not yet watched one of the videos on the channel, but you could give it a try.
There are full versions of every broadcast on the Alpha & Omega Ministries channel
Thank you both so much for that, I have no idea why I didn’t think to look that up. I am a wife and mom of three and homeschool so when I see these gems pop up I click and listen as I go about my day. Thank you both so much! God bless!
@@jesussaves8929 I'm happy to have been able to help! If you have any other questions, would like recommendations for other channels like Alpha and Omega Ministries (i.e. Reformed, thorough preaching, etc.) I'd be glad to give a (albeit small) list.
@ James White: You pointed out, correctly, that Erasmus dedicated his translation to Pope Leo, who denounced Luther. However, I think it would be fair of you to point out another very significant fact, namely that Erasmus finished his life in the company of his Protestant friends, and was buried in a small early Protestant graveyard. In other words, he eventually rejected the Papacy
But when he was working on the translation, did he already have a view that challenged the papacy's views?
How long did it take for him to rejected the papacy after he finished the translation?
@@demsyciu We may be confusing two different issues: 1. How people's views about the Papacy changed during the early days of the Reformation and 2. How accurately Erasmus and other scholars translated the Greek texts available to them. Both Erasmus and Luther took some time to fully disengage from Roman Catholicism; Luther's 95 theses merely called for reform of the church, not for a new church to be formed. Can you point to a single word that either Erasmus or Luther mistranslated because they were still Rmon Catholics at the time of their translations. I doubt it. Both got rid of that awful mistake of Jerome in his 'Vulgate', mistranslating 'repent as 'do penance. Erasmus became a Protestant at the end of his life. Did he then think he had mistranslated anything? I very much doubt it
Anthony Bennett- Why would Erasmus 'translate' the Greek text/s? What is the benefit of translating Greek into Greek? I believe that D.E. is known for 'editing' the Greek. There is vagueness to this story that deserves to be properly developed. I have noticed that many don't understand what Erasmus actually did or intended to do with the available texts. What do you think?🤔🤓
@@duranbailiff5337 Hi. My phrasing above was clumsy. Erasmus *prepared* both Greek and Latin New Testaments. The Greek was obviously the master collation of manuscripts as of course the New Testament was actually written in koine Greek. You could argue that his Latin compilation was simply an amendment of Jerome's Vulgate; alternatively it was a *translation* from Greek to Latin. This famous text of Erasmus was very soon accepted as 'the real deal' and translations of this text, now known as the Textus Receptus, were soon made into German, English, Dutch etc.
Lord Jesus said: “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hid in a field. When a man found it, he hid it; and because of the joy it produces, goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field” (Matthew 13:44).
According to Origen of Alexandria (AD 184-254), “the field” in this parable figuratively represents the sacred Scripture.
Ferdinand Hitzig, an eminent scholar of the Bible, is said to have said to his students, “Have you a Septuagint? If not, sell all you have, and buy one.”
God Bless.
Ferdinand Hitzig, the same "eminant scholar" that believed the book of Daniel was a Maccabean forgery?
The Kjv quotes the septugiant...if its Gods perfect word...why does it quote a corrupt text according to steven???
@Wayne lawson Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23
Wayne lawson
John 12:36:41 quotes passages from Isaiah 6. In verse 41 it specifically says “glory” which is the word used in the LXX as the Hebrew says the train of his robe.
How can we send questions to Bro. White and receive answers in a private manner? I'm sure he doesn't have much time for such things, but figured it would be worth asking.
Did you think to send questions to his church?
Steven Anderson is a person who would charge with Bibliolatry.
Among other heresies.
Here is one of the proofs that the KJV uses the LXX. Not sure if the translators did or Erasmus did or the quotation was simply in the few Greek texts that Erasmus used to create the TR.
Matthew 4:6 KJV
[6] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Notice the phrase “lest at anytime.” If one goes back to Psalm 91:11-12 is the Masoretic Hebrew the phrase is not there. But if we look at the LXX look what we see.
Psalm 91:11-12 (90:11-12) LXX
For he shall give his angels charge concerning thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up on their hands, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
The KJVO cannot deny the Septuagint. Sure they be like Anderson and claim it was corrupt but if they go that route then they have to admit that the Bible is corrupt since this among many other quotations prove that the NT writers quoted from the LXX.
We here in the East use the Seventy as well. WHOLE East uses it.
Well, not the _whole_ east. Some use the Peshitta, or translations in other languages (granted, many of these are translations of the LXX)
Would love to see the doctor debate Rabbi Tovia Singer on this
That would be a completely pointless endeavor. Singer is a rabid, antichrist. All he does is mock and ridicule anything related to Christianity.
He already put out a video on the Septuagint and totally slandered and trashed it. He says it's totally corrupted. He even suggested the Dead Sea Scrolls, which prove the correctness of the LXX (and its ancient connection to the original Hebrew) were garbage, throw-away Scrolls and that's why they were discarded in some caves. He's a total tool...just like Steve Anderson.
@@pennsyltuckyreb9800 that's why it would make for a great debate. I'd be intrigued to hear the rebuttals
@@marlo8456 It would be entertaining...lol
Who is that Dr. Who!!
Just love brother White. Listening from South Africa. Thank you.
look at my latest video
:)
Just when I thought we'd reached Anderson's Peak Ignorance.
more like manipulation of the people under him.
WasLostButNowAmFound
Exactly! KJV Onlyism banks on the idea that their listeners are ignorant of facts and too lazy to research it themselves. That’s the only way the sales pitch works.
I agree with James that the Septuagint predates the NT and was the Scripture of choice for the apostles. I would go so far as to say that the reason the apostles were predominantly quoting from the LXX was because they were Greeks. Think about it, not even one NT book was ever written in Palestine by a Jew. Not one! All were written in other places, mostly in Greece. And most of the Epistles are addressed to Greek communities. Practicing Jews couldn’t have written such articulate, refined Greek. That’s precisely why the Septuagint was so important to the early Christians and why its use in liturgy and homiletics was so prevalent down through the centuries. So, I agree with James that the Septuagint is an excellent translation and a very important work that predates the Masoretic text by many centuries. Recently, it has been wrongfully attacked mainly by Jewish apologists and the King James Only movement! Both have an axe to grind!
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge I’m not sure what your point is. My comments are all based on well-known documented facts. If you’re suggesting that I’ve made inaccurate statements, then you should at least correct me by furnishing accurate & detailed evidence, not with vague comments of no substance.
@@elikittim7971
That's because the Freemasons use the KJV.
The Tetragrammaton יהוה 👁️
The eye 👁️
which English Septuagint is known to be the most accurate?
Craziness, Jesus literally quoted from the septuagint.
Do you think it could be Jesus quoted from the Hebrew reading the Septuagint preserved rather than Him reading the Greek? A reading lost from the Hebrew centuries later?
@@aaronman3352
Possibly, but then the quotes from Jesus would be word for word according to the later used Septuagint and not the Hebrew translations that we use in our modern versions.
@@calvinpeterson9581 Thats a really good point, why would Jesus match word for word in Greek? That might come to are the words inspired or the meaning of the passage.
1) The LXX does not follow the Hebrew tripartite division but changes the order of the books to the categories of Law, History, Poetry and Prophecy.
2) The chief uncial Mss (i.e. written on parchment in semi-capital style letter, which were used for the N.T. till about 800 A.D. and of which about 300 exist today) are "A" and "B", both of Egyptian origin and yet they "vary considerably" from each other. "A" is Codex Alexandrinus and "B" is Codex Vaticanus. Both contain most of the O.T. and N.T. and their O.T. text is the LXX text.
3) The original LXX text of the Book of Job was very much shorter than the Hebrew text ... the translator left large portions out!
4) In the books of Esther and Daniel the LXX has NUMEROUS ADDITIONS, which are not found in the Hebrew text. Who authorised these additions?
5) The LXX frequently changes the order of the text, especially in Jeremiah chapters 25 - 51. That sounds just like Moffatt's English translation, doesn't it?6) The two chief LXX mss of the book of Judges vary very much from each other. Which one is to be trusted?
7) There is no authentic LXX version available today ... ANYWHERE! That is, if there ever was such a thing as an "authentic" LXX version.
8) Today's LXX actually has Theodotion's translation of the book of Daniel in it. Why did the original translation of the book of Daniel have to be dropped? Theodotion, a Hellenistic Jewish scholar made his translation around 180 - 190 A.D. That's about 400 years after the LXX translation was supposedly made.
9) The LXX text of Jeremiah very clearly has two different authors. The first author translated chapters 1 - 28; the rest was done by a different person.
10) The LXX text preserves several non-canonical books, known as apocryphal books. On what authority are such books included with the Word of God?
Jesus Christ and the Apostles quote the LXX more often than the Masoretic Text (.i.e. the modern day Hebrew Old Testament is the Masoretic Text). So if what ever the sources are for the LXX if they were good enough for Jesus Christ and his Apostles then I promise they are way safer to use then what ever the Masoretic Text is and is based off of.
Even in the Megillah 8b:20 says the yehudi read out of Greek translation of the Torah
Anderson does not believe in repentant for salvation. Not good. False teacher. Very important.
That’s works salvation is why, it’s by faith, by believing not of works.
@@PhantomNitesGalatians 5:19-21
I'd be curious to get Anderson's opinion on the Samaritan Pentateuch with it's 6,000 variations from the Masoretic Text.
Seeing as the samaritans 1. dont believe the sanctity of Jerusalem or 2. dont believe in the prophets 3. dont beleive in the writings, etc., why do you think we should care about what their fake bible says?
Anderson's views on this really surprise me (and I'm coming from a neutral stance of liking some of his sermons and disliking others), because I've seen his sermon on the Jews. There's a huge disconnect in his views there. On the one hand he believes today's Jews are not true Jews and evil (he takes it pretty far - he wasn't just saying Jews without Christ are lost), yet on the other hand he believes that they preserved the scriptures centuries after rejecting the Messiah, that they should be trusted over the church fathers. Seems like you can't have both of those.
Well done Dr. White!
Not sure why people listen to that man(steven).
There are youtube videos of him yelling at people and kicking them out of the service.
He’s saying it’s 4th century, but he didn’t read on the wiki that it was bce 😭
Pastor Steven Anderson is very disconnected from history of the septuagint. It was clearly used by the apostles. Waw! The Holy Spirit speaking through the apostles was pleased to use quotations from it when formulating the New Testament! Amen.
Anderson also quite wilfully moves past the history of the formation of the TR - and ignores the history of the man who work on it.
Dr White is right to say if the shoe was on the other foot he would preach 47 sermons on it.
It is hard to take Anderson seriously, when he behaves like this. He is suppressing the truth. One would expect this of an atheist when he is suppressing the truth about God -
and when there are things that he doesn't want to bring to the surface in public debate. But let them that seek the truth, face the truth and speak the truth.
Actually its the masoretic that has issues with genealogy not the lxx. Ages were dropped to support the false claim of shem as Melchizedek
Hey Jim, coming late to this (sorry I don't like "X"), but one verse (because I've studied so much about it, I know there must be others like this!), comes to mind when Andersen goes on about how much better the KJV is because it followed the Hebrew rather than the Septuagint or the Vulgate would be: Job 26:10 because the KJV (and ALL of the English translations before it) use a view of that verse relating to a TIME WHEN "light and darkness" _come to an_ (none of that phrase being in the Hebrew) "end". The reality is that Job 26:10 speaks about a "circle" or "border" between the light (day) and darkness (night). So what does Andersen say about KJV verses which clearly DO NOT FOLLOW the Hebrew, but rather something else?!
Well the Sadducees, who Believed in predestination, merged with Hellenist theology that included, pagan rituals were the framers of the Septugint.
Yes the predestination debate goes all the way back to the two religous groups of the Jews.
The two translations are both considered Koine.
The King James used the Masorite translation for Hebrew, and the Textus Receptus for the Greek.
The only part of the King James that uses the Septugint is no longer found it was the Apocryphal books.
That’s not true, sometimes you will find they plumped for using the Septuagint.
So why is Jeremiah different in the Masoretic text and Septuagint?
I used to follow Anderson but he has so much anger to be a preacher. I'ma KJV user but I am not a KJV onlyest but I am a KJV only for me type person. I have many brothers and sisters who use other translations of the Bible and I love them and look at them as brothers and sisters. The point is they understand and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ the basic founding principles of the Christian faith though there are differences when it comes to eschatology. I've never read the Septuagint but I should probably read it and I should get more familiar with the church fathers.
The Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, dating back to the 2nd and 3rd Century BCE.
Yea cool right.
Hi Dr. White,
I have been searching about what you have much knowledge already
Just as I start to believe that the Critical text is good I hear or read something that puts me back a spot again, I'm working on learning more
The latest issue I am trying to see about is Psalms 115:14,15
The KJV and the ESV are very different. One says MAY and another says SHALL...one says more and more and the other don't
What do I do about this, why is there such a huge difference it this passage and can you give me something to go to?
Thank you very much
1,250 years were deflated from the current Hebrew text's Genesis 5 chronologies : read about and see the charted tallies of solid textual proof in the ultra-professional " MT, SP, or LXX? Deciphering a Chronological and Textual Conundrum in Genesis 5" - Associates for Biblical Research (biblearchaeology.org)
biblearchaeology.org/research/biblical-chronologies/4349-mt-sp-or-lxx-deciphering-a-chronological-and-textual-conundrum-in-genesis
Great study!! Douglas Woodward and Barry Setterfield have really in depth studies on the LXX
In a synagogue in the 1st century, one could only read the Hebrew scrolls or the Targum (a translation of the Hebrew Bible into Aramaic). Greek was forbidden. Recall that Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the Solomon’s temple circa 170 BC. Thus, the need for Herod to build the 2nd temple. The Jews of the 1st century despised the Greeks, for that and other reasons.
The only evidence for a BC Septuagint is the letter of Aristeas, which no one believers but everyone quotes. It is a fantastic tale (read fantasy). There is no reference to a Septuagint prior to 50 AD (+/-). If you trace all the reference to a BC Septuagint, you will find that each and every on them references the Letter of Aristeas in one form or another. So, the only witness to a BC Septuagint is the Letter of Aristeas (LOA)
If one believes the LOA, one has to believe also that the 10 northern tribes of Israel were not dispersed to four winds after 721 BC. From this diaspora they never returned. Rather you have to believe that they were still in Israel in 285 BC, since the LOA claims that 12 scribes from each of the 12 tribes of Israel were assembled in Egypt. Incidentally, a land to which the Jews were forbidden ever to return to. Deuteronomy 28:68.
Only the Levites were to handle the scriptures (with the exception of the King who had to make a copy for himself). So, one has to add to that belief that 72 scribes (not Levites) defiled themselves among the Greeks and defied the scriptures and God’s wishes in order to handle the scriptures as well as going to a land to which they were forbidden ever to return.
More so, add to that belief, that 72 scribes, each without a copy of the Hebrew scriptures, translated them from memory into Greek in 72 days and every single word was identical all the while being locked up in 72 chambers on the isle of Pharos without any collaboration between them. And by the way, why is it called LXX "The 70"?
And may I say ”Incidentally” again?
Incidentally, the Pharos light house was not built until 280 BC, 5 years after the blessed event. A minor point.
To sum up, we are to believe that God inspired the work of 72 (not 70) disobedient, non-Levitical scribes who rendered 72 identical copies of the Hebrew scriptures from memory into Greek. Really?
Incidentally, the LOA section 176 also says that the whole scroll was written in gold. Really? Where is it? You’d think that someone would have a vested interest in preserving such a priceless document. Where is it? It doesn’t exist!
Finally, If you were to get a copy of the Septuagint, you would find that it is nothing more than the Old Testament portions of the codex Alexandrinus, the codex Sinaiticus and the codex Vaticanus, along with the Apocrypha.
If you believe that Jesus quoted from the Septuagint, you have to also believe that Jesus endorsed the Apocrypha.
Including purgatory!
Really?
Compare Hebrews 8:9 to Jeremiah 31:32 and tell my why your Protestant Bible got it wrong.
Yes, Jesus and the Apostles quoted the LXX and the closest Christians to Christ, Paul etc. had a different Bible than you Prots.
Oh theres a lot of documents older than the book of Moses. You need to stop saying "there are maybe some babylonian documents"... There are Tons and Tons of books. Theres the writing of the old and middle egyptian empire. Theres the Rig Veda thats still in use. Theres the Egyptian book of the dead. The Babylonian stuff, its more than just a few, and the Sumerian stuff. Theres the Zoroastrian book.
So you’re saying Jesus quoted this.
Who would believe White or Anderson.
When Jesus comes the body of Christ will show who is recognised by Him
What's the original link of the video?
Does the NASB and ESV use the septuagint?
@Magnus Bekkestad i see, so the masoteric texts too?
@Infinite Adriannn what is false?
@Infinite Adriannn are you fr saying that salvation is based on what version of the bible you have?
@Infinite Adriannn that's saying people who dont reject kjv aren't saved
@Infinite Adriannn you're talking the sheep voice verse out of context 🤦
Was just going to comment about the purgatory analogy darn it monsiuer Rich lol
I have to wonder what Steven Anderson is on, believing this.
21:20 I vote that from now on we refer to Anderson's view as Textual Purgation
Acts 7:14 compared to Deuteronomy 10:22 and Exodus 1:5. I've stumped many a King James people with that example.
I am curious, how did you use those verses to "stump" King James people?
@@jesseewynn9467 did you read them? The Old Testament verses read 70 and the New Testament verse state 75. There is obviously an error here. King James onliest believe that their translation is error free. This is only one of many examples I could give. All Masoretic based Bibles will have the same issue regardless of translation.
@@dlbard1 I don't think those are really contradictions. One account gives a precise amount, and another gives an estimate. This is done in the KJV Old Testament more than once. Also, the Masoretic text is reliable.
@@jesseewynn9467 Estimates are usually given in large figures in the Bible, I'll agree that it is done, but we're talking about a small, easily counted number. There's no reason to believe that these are estimate in these passages. You said the Masoretic is reliable, have you read anything else? How do you know if it's reliable if you've not compared it to anything? How do you explain that when the Old Testament scriptures are quoted in the New Testament over 90% of the time agree with the LXX and not the Hebrew? Do you know that there are early Christian writings which criticized the Masoretic text as being altered?
@@dlbard1 You didn't read what I said on the explanation for both of those references. One is a precise number, the other is just an estimation. You are going to have to show how that interpretation is incoherent or wrong. Otherwise, you're just going to have to take back your accusation of the KJV as a good intellectually honest young boy.
Steven Anderson is the poster boy of biblical ignorance paraded as wisdom.
We don't have the original Hebrew. I didn't hear him be honest about bibles being translated from the Masoretic translation of the Hebrew old testament. Which history shows was corrupted.
And the reason?? Was to try and debunk Yeshua as the Messiah...
And the thing about Steven Anderson. In my spirit, I feel He has a gift from God. And will have to answer for it.
My spirit identifies with his. But, he is going against his own heart.. For what purpose?? Knowing the devil and his ways and seeing what man often doesn't, has him trapped. In his heart he knows it. But, pride goeth before a fall.
We should pray for him. He truly has a gift, the enemy just has him in chains. Chains of tradition, familial influences, and other snares. We should pray for his deliverance, him to be pricked in his heart, him to have the courage to stand for what he hears in his heart, no matter what the cost of it.
God is an all consuming fire. He is also soooooo long suffering.
Yeshua said learn of me for I am meek and lowly at heart. Let us approach each other in this way.
There are times for a stiff rebuke. And thus far, I have only been lead to do that with Judaizers.
The Masoretic isn’t a translation. A translation is taking one language and rendering it into another one.
One teaching from Christ, if He had given such a teaching, would have been the corruption within Jerusalem, the temple, and synagogue's use of the word or mistranslation of the Septuagint texts that existed at that time. If His Word had been corrupted He would have spoken out about its misuse. If there is evidence of the Word being corrupted He most likely would have given voice to that. Anderson makes a correlation with the Septuagint being corrupted because it is in Greek rather than Hebrew. But which Hebrew is he referring to? First temple Hebrew or 2nd temple Hebrew. That's how they actually can access which period artifacts come from in the ruins under the city in this present day. There are two (perhaps more) forms the Hebrew existed in from Solomon's time and first century A.D. time. And there were probably corrupted texts of the Septuagint from their original writings (2nd century B.C.) as those used in the fourth century A.D. And corrupted texts can come about through mistranslation or translation through ideological lenses. I think what Anderson displays the most is not a persuasive argument but rather a tiny amount of research. He only goes down roads of thought that reinforce what he believes. He feels comfort in his ignorance rather than a willingness to expand his reasoning and understanding. He only studies to argue and reinforce how he perceives. He lacks discernment which means there is less evidence of the Holy Spirit within him. He can think logically about what is in the words printed within the KJV but would probably argue heavily against the original authorized version first printed with the king's name on it. It's really sad he has such a prominent position from which he reaches people. We, the spectators to his drama and anger, see a man who has been given a platform to lead a group through strong man tactics and rage rather than a unifying collaboration of belief. Those people fear him. They could leave him but I think they would bear the front of retaliation through character assassination by him. So they don't. I've watched many clips of him and it usually involves protecting his own reputation or confronting any disagreement by his own flock or outside influence such as James White. It appears to be a cult there.
Agree with what you say because I’ve checked the history of Septuagint. Thank you
I think the James White VS Steven Anderson fued will be a legendary fued to be remembered in Christian history.
Wonder what James White did to him, to hate him so much?
@@sparky4581 Probably influenced former attenders of Anderson's church to find a different church.
@@tintinismybelgian after looking into it a while back he embarrassed him in an debate of sorts.
@@tintinismybelgian that’s me
@@edwardaguilar6322 Good for you.
I just wander what he thinks or even knows he thinks or knows of Origen's Hexlapa? I am not saying Origin was the best of the best as far as ancient scholars but when you start learning more of what he did or wanted to do...no do not believe he castrated himself.
the greek texts were not the only scriptures. you have the samarian texts, and the ones found in the dead sea scrolls,. plus the masoretic texts. Jesus did quote the greek texts 75% of the time put he also quotes the masoretic texts. people used what was available to them
The preface to the KJV doesn't exactly say what you claim it says. It says God looked well upon them because they had the desire to do a good thing, but it is full of error, brought by ignorance.
Is there a readily available Old Testament in English that comes from the Greek Septuagint? Yes there is!! Its called the Orthodox Study Bible. Major book places have it.
There several more than that. Lexham has one.
James your only rehearsing what you were taught by another man.
you're = you are...
And?! Do you know that all knowledge is an infinite regress? So, in order to know anything at all, you would have to be taught by another man. Look into epistemology some time. Your comment makes no sense. You think it's a good jab but, you really just look foolish.
Hey, man. Thanks for this!
You know what’s appalling is listening to him say Esau was a decent guy and thatSimon Magnus is probably in heaven (repented). Seriously. Steve Anderson is a false teacher to the upteenth degree.
How does one speak of a purification process of a text they claim is the inspired text for our time? If it's God-breathed, it doesn't need purified.
wonder if there is still a Hebrew version pre masoretic text anywhere?
The Samaritan Pentateuch.
Dead Sea Scrolls is oldest Bible in Hebrew. You can get an English translation of both canonical and noncanonical or see photos of the Hebrew online.
They've been proven to be frauds. Early this year the Dead Sea scrolls here in America were proven to be frauds, and after that was announced the Israeli government refused to allow theirs to be tested. Kinda a coincidence they were found the year Israel became a country huh? Lol
@@jeremyjames1659 just because people forged some for money and sold them to private institutions doesn’t mean literally all of them are fakes lmao
We know from dating the scroll material, dating the ink (very important obviously), and scribal practices that most all the scrolls are legitimate.
Why are you desperate to discredit them, anyways? We’re one step closer to the autograph Old Testament, and there are a lot of enlightening textual variants. It’s not like this is the New Testament, where the Byzantine Text obviously takes the cake; with the OT, new discoveries are exciting.
Why ignore the Masorah? Without the Masorah you have now vowels or punctuation and you’re literally reading someone else’s handwriting.
Sorry, can only give so much time to King Anderson. Out.
christ spoke aramaic
Clearly had the Hebrew only Pharisees let their sheeple see what the Greek Septuagint says, they could have prevented a Holocaust.
The Septuagint says,
"“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but A BODY YOU PREPARED FOR ME; 6 with burnt offerings (HOLOkotoma) and sin offerings you were not pleased." (Ps. 40-Greek Septuagint)
Also confirmed in Hebrews 10:5-7 and speaking of Messiah Jesus.
The Greek word for 'Whole Burnt Offering' in Greek is HOLOkotoma, from where we get the word 'HOLOcaust'.
Instead, they tamper with the Hebrew Maz text and have God saying that he opened their ears.
"40 Some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard this, and they asked Him, “Are we blind too?” 41“If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. BUT SINCE YOU CLAIM YOU CAN SEE, YOUR GUILT REMAINS.” (Jn. 9)
The pharisees used the Greek Septuagint and the Hebrew O.T and how would that prevent the holocaust?
Why does septuigent have the apocrypha? That's only thing that worries me.
watch james' debate on the apocrypha.
Yeah i have seen that I support the septuigent and I know the early church definitely used it and quotes from it. I understand the are more "historical" than scripture, just never felt right but yeah man ill re watch the video
What defines 'scripture'? Its a lot harder then you think.
Because many Jews before and during the time of Christ accepted those books. The Church merely received those books from the Jews. The Judean Pharisees were not the end-all-be-all of 1st century Judaism.
MrKneeV Sorry, the Jewish Tanakh did not contain the the apocrypha. Ezra did not set them in the temple and that my friend is the rest of the story.
You’re argument is wholly unconvincing
You appeal to authority and tradition
Jesus Christ and the Apostles quote the LXX more often than the Masoretic Text (.i.e. the modern day Hebrew Old Testament is the Masoretic Text). So if what ever the sources are for the LXX if they were good enough for Jesus Christ and his Apostles then I promise they are way safer to use then what ever the Masoretic Text is and is based off of.
"they were Calvinists".... well, nobody is perfect, Luther was an antisemite like Steve Anderson is, and most protestants idolize his reformation work... thank God they are not my standard for faith and practice.
White is also a TULIP guy
Referencing Jerome as anything but a hack regarding the Vulgate is absurd. Never even bothered to check his Hebrew, his Greek is horrible at best.
@Filaretos The Zealot extant text?
@Filaretos The Zealot Hebrew? His Greek is beyond horrible.
The Septuagint is ancient. Ancient doesn't mean good. The Devil is ancient too. The Septuagint, while having some historical usefulness, is not the inspired scripture. The KJV is a much better translation. I'd recommend hearing "Why So Many Bible Versions? The UNTOLD Dark History of Bible Translations | Battle of the Bibles" - Walter Veith
One of the dumbest statements ever
This is a joke the Septuagint is correct.
th-cam.com/video/VI1yRTC6kGE/w-d-xo.html
Here is a great video on the correct Septuagint genealogies when it comes to Shem and his offspring.
The Jews altered the Masoretic text to try and make Shem Melchizedek to disqualify the book of Hebrews claims about Jesus as our High Priest. They have Shem outliving multiple generations through Abraham.
This created problems with the flood timeline and opened the door to many Atheist critiques pointing to the pyramids existing before the flood and the time it takes to repopulate enough people to build the tower of Babel.
JAMES why use a Bible created from the corrupted text of Jerome AD 382. ...Jerome admits to altering the text..........you seek a bad version with a strong will and gusto .....
Ruckman believed that the 1769 (being the 7th edition ) was the pure words of God in english
Ruckman was a top tier heretic.
@@mattsweeney9618 have you ever met him?, read his books or actually seen him preach?
Or are you just repeating some line that you heard from someone elae?
@@mrcampo19 Ruckman said that abortion wasn't murder.
@@mattsweeney9618 he was wrong about that....his stance is that it shouldn't be illegal because the government cannot and should not legislate morality. He was never pro abortion.
This hardly makes him a heretic
@@mattsweeney9618
He repented of that later in life.
I translated from the septuagent
I think the church should embrace KJV as our universal text. It's a solid, annointed translation that anchored our faith for centuries. We should use it for devotions and, wherever possible, for sermons. We need the unity. Various modern translations are beneficial for delving into details, clarifying history and Bible study.
.50 - The two Bibles of the early Church were the Peshitta (AD 150's) and the OLD Latin Vulgate (not to be mistaken for the Latin Vulgate (AD 400's), of the AD 150s also. These two bibles were around and used for 250 yeara before Jerome's Latin Vulgate of the 400s. And watch out, James White is the leading "crept in unawares" men who "corrupt" the Word of God "bringing in damnable heresies."
Dr. James White clearly hasn't done his research on this subject.
It should be clear the LXX is the superior translation between the two. It's older, Christ and the apostles quoted from it and the Dead Sea Scrolls agree with it when there is a discrepancy between the two.
*Steven Anderson
@@earvinwilliams8140 That's what a college taught you, which you wasted your money and time for a bunch of sideshow 50 cent words. "Study to show yourself approved unto God," now there are some billion dollar words; preserved in the KJB - by the blood of God and His elect (servants). Not one drop of - Righteous blood - was ever shed over the LXX, which is from Nazi, Germany in the 1940s', originally called the Septuagint, from Adamantius Origen (a heretic, A.D. 184-254), from Alexander, Egypt. Read and weep, The *Mythological Septuagint, the LXX (the supposed Greek OT of c. 250 BC). When Philo came on the scene in AD 30s', whom as far as anyone knows, started the whole lie with the Letter of Aristobulus’, which is doubtful at best. The Letter of Aristeas was supposed to have been “revised” by him. This letter has been proven to be a FAKE as far back as Dr. Hody, AD 1705! (The Septuagint, that is claimed to exist in 250 BC has no extant manuscripts before c. AD 350, and no real evidence for it either before this date! The Septuagint is nothing but the fifth column of Origen’s Hexapla, c. AD 220, which the Hexapla is not extant.) Sorry, Pal, you've been lied to, now, be a wiseman and REPENT and BELIEVE and RECEIVE and TRUST in the LIVING GOD, the Lord Jesus Christ. And if you REALLY have a brain in your head -then return to the Written Jesus, the King Jesus (James) Bible.
Here is some more evidence, The Hebrew and Greek languages are beautiful and important when from the “true” Masoretic and the Greek Textus Receptus texts, and from the English language in the “true” Bible and English dictionaries*, etc., but any language from the “corrupted” Septuagint (also known as the LXX), Codex Alexandrinus, Codex Vaticanus, Caesarean family, Codex Bezae, and Codex Sinaiticus and any “corrupted word helps” (dictionaries, word study guides, concordances, etc.) of any kind from reprobate churches following the Hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church-are not.
(*Certain key English dictionary definitions of certain words have been changed in the last 250+ years, so that they would discredit the KJB’s words, thus, these corrupted lexicographers made these dictionaries an authority over the KJB, and this was the first step, just before the onslaught of the M.V.'s, to under-mind the authority of the KJB.)
It's sad to hear Dr. White say that Jesus and the Apostles used the LXX which is completely outdated among scholars in Israel. The Hebrew Jews read from the Hebrew Scriptures called the Proto-MT. They were NOT Greek Jews.
SwordOfTheLord Where are you getting your information? How do you know they quoted from the LXX? All you are doing is looking at a 3rd to 4th century Greek OT and NT translation and comparing them to each other? If I look at a Latin Bible and compare the OT and NT does that mean the Apostles quoted from a Latin text? No! You don’t know what you are saying. Your position is circular. Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the Proto-MT text and that is a fact. There is no LXX texts found any where within Jerusalem or the near surrounding areas. You are relying on outdated sources. Sorry, White is wrong.
The Old Testament quotations in the New Testament match up with the Septuagint. It's no coincidence.
CurtTheGamer Can you please explain how? You are reading a Greek New Testament with Greek Old Testament so you don’t think they will match up? Does that mean the Apostles wrote in Greek? No.
If I read a Latin New Testament with a Latin Old Testament and the match up in quotation does that mean the Apostles wrote in Latin? No. It’s a false premise.
@@dralgarza No two translations of the same book read exactly the same, because different translators use different style. It really strains credibility to claim the Septuagint "just happens" to match up with the OT quotes in the NT. No two people would have translated them the exact same way.
@@curtthegamer934 You have to assume first that the NT was written in Greek. You cannot come to that conclusion unless you start with a false premise. Also, Jesus and the Apostles did not read or use the LXX. That is a historical fact. You are outdated in your sources. Sorry, you are wrong.
lxx have problme
hebrew have problem
no perfcet alone
nt also need both of them
numbers problem and other else
many ot stream corruoted cahnged not fixed
variation in lxx transmission also
worst section in lxx also have
there js good amd bad section of translation
not verbal but bad and pharaprase idea
So James White doesn't even believe that either the greek OT or Hebrew OT we have available are perfect and inerrant? Imagine not having any faith at all in God's promise.
11:30 what about a great example of the modern Christ-birth advent 1844-1874 is that Irish Anglican archbishop Ussher has 350 years of judges (1446-1096bc) despite ironically his dates are put into the King James (KJV) whose Acts 13:20 says God gave them forefathers until-450 of judges, instead of God gave them forefathers for 450-until judges (of 350).
I understand the back and forth videos. James White tries to correct Steven Anderson's numerous errors but is more often then not akin to attempting to paddle up a waterfall. Let's eliminate the middle man and get them both in a public, moderated debate (like that will ever happen, Steven Anderson being the monologue king....)....
Agreed, it is a tiresome watch.
lousy poor
pharaorase idea
not verbal accurate plain translatiom in lxx they have worst section for real
How about the one word that was mistranslated on purpose?
The word CHURCH!!!!!! This was purposeful...
How does Ekklesia=Church????
They are not the same. Church is a temple driven, it is a word that gives rise to the system of what we have. Not a living body of called out believers who ALL supply to the needs of the body. Who have all things in common. Who love each other as they love themselves. We have a system that has corrupted the name of God/Jesus and How and Who The Holy Spirit is...
The word Church is repulsive.
Called out ones. Called out from all systems. Religious, educational, political, scientific.... out of this system.
Come out of the beast and the harlot.
If anyone reads this, I don't know, but if you do hear it.
Ah, the endless joys of sola scriptura: the Tower of Bible.
@M J I am sure that's against Scripture. Oh, wait, I found another verse where Scripture requires it.
Yes! I say we depend upon a series of dudes who are ruled by political and worldly goals. Surely, Sacred Scripture must take a back seat to that line of broken succession.
And by the way, scholarship and actual history buttress the Bible.
bible purifcation text funny hahah textual purgatory