▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ 🔴📣Other videos of interest: - ✅What did Rommel, Guderian and Manstein think about the Waffen SS?? His Harsh Appraisal... th-cam.com/video/vo7iF_mJlYI/w-d-xo.html ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ 💲Supports the channel: 🟠Support the channel by becoming a member, and enjoy exclusive benefits! th-cam.com/channels/sl8sHcK3nXSkVZpCEmhzIw.htmljoin Paypal: www.paypal.com/paypalme/quienestadetras?locale.x=es_ES ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ 🦅 Social networks Twitter: twitter.com/BelicasQue instagram.com/historiasbelicasoficial/ 00:00 Meeting with Hitler July 13 01:40 Manstein, Rommel and Kluge dinner 05:58 Manstein's dismissal 07:32 What did Hitler think of Manstein? The promise... 08:27 Manstein's visit to Hitler in Berlin 1945
It is little appreciated that Rommel had a far better grasp of strategic and grand strategic matters than people give him credit for. Great video. Thanks for loading this up.
Rommel had seen Allied airpower and superiority. He'd seen the taxi rank of aircraft waiting in the sky to be notified of German ground targets as they were identified. A bit like Russian and Hamas fighters nowadays being identified and liquidated by airpower.
@@michaeldowson6988 Perhaps, but you have to consider, he was constantly racing against British and Allied logistics. He could never keep up because the Axis never fully controlled the Med. So, he could have reasoned that an aggressive manoeuvre war might defeat the enemy before their superior logistics could keep up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but this may have been the reason for his seemingly rash decisions.
Rommel, from my observations and after reading the memoirs of his along with Manstein, Guderian and Hoth's, was really what I would consider a first-rate corp commander, similar to Patton. I don't think he had the vision (or the desire) to lead complete armies or army fronts. That, both Manstein and Guderian could do. Rommel did have an appreciation for air superiority, however, and his counsel on the western wall should have prevailed or Rundstedt's. He knew the only chance was to defeat the enemy on the beaches.
Guderian had sound ideas about defending Berlin, but Hitler decided to waste the forces he gathered on Operation Spring Awakening. Courland Pocket and Norway garrisons still had nearly 500,000 men when Berlin fell. Add the Army Group Center in the Prague which still has about 600,000 men you get over a million men instead of something like 200,000 in and around Berlin during the last days of the war. German armored reserves had over 1000 tanks before the Spring Awakening but that got melted away after the operation.
They could have marshalled all those men and still would have lost, maybe delayed end of war by 3 weeks. The Soviets would have just completely outflanked them from the south if they abandoned the Hungarian and Czech regions.
@@davidjackson2179 The Germans 4th Panzer Army near Dresden actually defeated just such an attempt to encircle Berlin from the South in the Battle of Bautzen (21st - 26th of April, 1945), which caused significant damage to the Soviet 52nd and Polish 2nd armies and stopped them cold. It was one of the last tactical victories for the Germans in the war. Could they have held off like this forever with those trapped Courland forces? Probably not, but troops concentrations that large are nothing to scoff at...that's enough men and equipment to form to complete armies.
And removing men from those fronts would have allowed the anime to concentrate their resources as well. And with what fuel would any sort of a defensive been mounted? Should have proven two staff They simply would have been bombed for months and months by the allied Air forces before finally being pushed aside. The German military absolutely could have delayed things into late 45 or even possibly 46 but the end was coming.
If Hitler would have kept his nose out Operation Barbarossa as well as all the major offensives and counteroffensives that came after, Manstein would have been truly unstoppable. He was not only a tactical genius, he knew when to give ground and then launch counterattacks to retake it as he did in the February-March counteroffensive which culminated in the Third Battle of Kharkov and very nearly wound up being a complete route for the Soviets. Time and time again his very sound advice was ignored by Hitler with disastrous consequences for Germany. I'm not saying other generals like Guderian, Model, and Rundstedt weren't capable commanders, but Manstein just seemed to have an uncanny ability to sense his opponent's next move before they made it.
Manstein was only a corps commander at the start of Barbarossa. Given the know logistics limitations of the Wehrmacht beyond about 300mi into Russia, we can probably say that only one of Leningrad, Moscow or Kiev could be taken. if so, which is more decisive? It turns out Moscow was key because of the rail links that allowed the USSR to route resources withing the Soviet Union, though I would really need to see a rail network map. For this, Guderian was in the best position to carry out the mission. But in the face of Hitler desiring Kiev, Guderian put higher priority in keeping 2nd Panzer Group as one formation than insisting on Moscow. On strategy, sure Manstein came up with the winning idea for France. However, the Germans never seem to grasp resources available to the Soviets. They seemed to know how many formation the Soviets had west of the Urals, and were certain these were shattered, leaving only remnants and reservists hurried into units without a proper TO&E. But surely they knew the size of forces were east of the Urals? Oshima clearly told Ribbentrop that while the Japanese government sympathize, in no circumstances could they join. I see no indications that the Germans comprehended a massive influx from the east was coming. Also, consider in 41, the Soviets launched many reckless counter attacks against the Germans, before finally holding off with Siberian forces until a weighted blow could be delivered. In 42, the Soviets actually went on the offensive - in three places. But in spring-early summer 43, the Soviets suddenly went quiet. How could attack happy Stalin do this? The Germans could see the defensive fortifications going up around Kursk, but never fully grasped the depth of it. I don't blame Manstein for not recommending cancelling Zitadelle, because as a front commander, it was his role to be aggressive, and the strategic commander back home to ponder the big question. Of course, we know now that the Soviets had timely minutes of Hitlers war council discussions, such that even questions could be replied to quickly. Really, the best outcome would have been liberal use of Manstein's Schwert und Schild proposal in eastern Ukraine while build good fortifications on the Dneiper. I have only seen parts of the Dnieper myself. The right bank of Dnieper around Kiev was definitely a good place for a defensive line.
The Generals could have done nothing about the Oil Shortages, they were doomed from the start by not having enough oil reserves. Plus they wouldn’t have survived the US Bombing Campaign, if prolonged a few more months they would have been subjected to B-29 Bombing Raids & eventually the A Bomb.
It was an informative and wonderful historical coverage video about three commanders ( Rommel, Kluga ,and Manstein)' relationships amongst themselves and Manstein concrete prospective toward Dictator (Adolf Hitler)... thank you for an excellent ( war academy) channel for sharing this magnificent video
Exactly, wonder what chiefs of staff could've done to possibly win the war, or at least end it with am upper hand , or a draw ... instead of the real outcome.
@LaughingStud Someone should have told Hitler to forget about providing aid to the Italians as they were being defeated by the Greeks. Someone should have told Mussolini to stop his plans of invading Greece. The actual invasion of Soviet Russia was planned in May of 1941 not June 22. One month added on to Operation Barbarossa would have given Germany enough time to defeat Stalin. My opinion.
It’s interesting to see how pragmatic and military-centered these wermacht men were, as opposed to being ideologues. It took me a while to realize that they weren’t real national socialists, nor were top USSR generals actual diehard communists, and so on.
Most of them were not, especially the older like von Rundstedt, Kluge, Guderian...The younger though often were. Most of them probably Model, who, howeverm in being a pro-Nazi did not loose his senses and often clashed with Hitler if he disagreed (his famous reply to Hitler once was "My Führer, who does hold the command of the 9th Army. You, or me?"). And Rommel was probably awed by Hitler, who knew how to get his influence on him (by making him the most popular soldier and giving him a Field Marshall rank). However even Rommel came to realise how bad Hitler's leadership and also his other activities were. In the General staff there were more Nazi officers - Keitel and Jodl were fully mesmorised by Hitler. Also both well known Krebs and Burgdorf were both Nazis, aswell as General Maisel (who, with Burgdorf were the ones overseeing Rommel's suicide).
And still they supported Hitler and executed the Comisar order and let the men serving under them help the SS with the Final Solution. The only pragmatic and non ideoligic part of them was that they tried to get rid of Adolf Hitler the moment they realised that they were losing the war and they had to get rid of Adolf Hitler. In many ways there were even worse and more dangerousthen the SS because of that attitude.
They weren't Nazis, but they definitely weren't bothered by the worst aspects of Nazism. The Heer was not the clean force that generals like Manstein tried to repaint it as after the war. They fit much more in the banal evil like Adolf Eichmann.
Manstein was also smart enough to know what was going to happen if the Coup did not succeed. And we saw what happened to both Rommel and Kluga. Meinstein lived until 1973. At least Manstein did not throw the Couping Generals under the bus, which speaks very loudly, but sadly, he is never given any credit for this.
Prior to Kursk, Manstein offered up two strategies for the battle which he called "Forehand" and "Backhand". Manstein much preferred the "Backhand" strategy, in which German forces would allow the Russians to attack out of the Kursk salient, then give ground until the Soviets had stretched their logistic trains to a given limit, then he would unleash the German panzer divisions upon the Russian flanks and decisively destroy them. The Forehand strategy was the general Kursk offensive that Hitler insisted on, which failed miserably. Hitler was a moron.
And Manstein recommended only attempting the employed strategy if it was done in early to Mid-May, not in early July, as he knew the Soviets would dig defense lines, which they did. Hitler insisted on waiting for the new Panther tanks to arrive. Still, Manstein was correct in the latter days of Kursk in urging that his forces to continue to destroy Russian reserves rather than have the core of the remaining German offensive capability re-routed to Sicily. Of course, Hitler refused. Furthermore, Hitler resisted the 'backhand' strategy as it involved initially giving up ground. His mind could never fathom what benefit that would entail.
Are there any independent sources besides Manstein himself confirming this? His own memoirs Verlonene Siege (Lost Victories) are hardly reliable. His claims about the numbers of opposing forces and his own account of his actions have been disproven. I’m certainly not an admirer of Hitler nor a holocaust denier. No sane person is, but writing apologetics after Ww2 turned into a cottage industry for German ex-commanders.
If Manstein was given full control of the German military in the East without Hitler intervening I think he could have brought the Soviets to a draw in 43/early 44. But his strategy did not fit with Nazi ideology, where he was mocked as "General Retreat". But I think he could have stopped the Russians or brought them to the negotiating table while Germany still had the ability to negotiate.
Who's the best? Rommel or Manstein? For larger formations ans strategic grasp, the latter wins. But, despite often being derided by his peers as a gifted leader of smaller forces, it was Rommel who realized that the war was lost when the United States entered the fray. Dr Todt had reached the sane conclusion at the end of 1941. Ironically, as Hitler favorite general, Rommel saw more and more that his Fuhrer was leading Germany to disaster. So he hoped that by defeating the Allied invasion of France, a seperate peace might be secured with the Western powers, thus enabling Germany to send all its forces East, to confront the Russian menace. To this end, he strengthened the Atlantic Wall, with a new urgency.. That of defeating the Allies on or near the beaches. It was a risky strategy, but in Rommels view the only hope of success, because he knew Allied air power would effectively shatter any counter attack from deep in France. When Hitler listened to a second rate general and ruined Rommels plan by putting the vital Panzer divisions directly under OKW (i.e. Hitlers) control, Rommels loyalty declined further. So the Desert Fox conducted a dogged defence in Normandy, and when that was exhausted he pleaded with Hitler to retreat. History knows the rest. The Germans were shattered at Falaise, and Rommels was seriously wounded by RAF fighters. He knew about the plot to kill Hitler, and did not censure, let alone report, officers who openly advocated assassation as the only way of ending the war quickly. Manstein was not so realistic.
To me the biggest mistake was that Hitler was personally in charge of the war. He should have appointed Manstein supreme commander on the Eastern front. Battles lost by Manstein were not his fault. Staling rad, koursk and then south Ukraine were defeats because of Hitler. Manstein was the best high ranking officer in the German army. And the second big mistake was to remove him from the front.
100%, Hitler had no training as a general staff officer, the most complicated strategy he could come up with was hold your ground at all cost, which destroyed one German army after another and cost them the war. There's been a trend in modern times by certain historians to revise history and make it seem like Hitler was not to blame for these massive military disasters.
Manstein was too career oriented and blind to accept the reality that was going on around him. He still had hopes that he could change the outcome of the war in the Eastern front if had enough support from the high command. That all changed for him when Hitler had him replaced in March 1944 when he failed to stop the Soviets during the Dnieper- Carpathian offensive which saw Army Group South terribly weakened, causing it to be split in two and also depleting Germany's strategic reserves for any future offensives. Further to this Hitler had field marshal Walter Model to immediately take over Army Group Centre as Manstein's replacement. His decision to place Model was because Model was a defensive expert. Though Model constructed sufficient defenses, he did not expect the massive offensive that would be carried out against his forces by the Soviet Union. Operation Bagration came in like a thunder storm. Such a large scale offensive with tremendous artillery and aerial support, shattered his defensive networks. The sheer might of the Soviet offensive saw the complete destruction of Army Group center as an effective fighting force. The German 9th army and 2nd army lost over 80% of their strength. The German 4th army was encircled at Minsk and was destroyed. The German 3rd panzer army which was the only armoured support for Army Group center and which consisted of veteran armoured formations, lost most of its tanks and assault guns. Of the 34 divisions that were available in total, 28 divisions of Army Group Centre were destroyed. The surviving 6 divisions lost more than 50% of their strength. It was the worst defeat for the Wehrmacht and the final nail to the third Reich's coffin. All offensive capabilities were crippled at this point.
One could argue that their offensive capabilities were spent after the failure of Barbarossa. Every offensive subsequent to that had more and more limited resources and goals. Kursk was a last gasp designed simply to show the world Germany could win a major offensive, and yet it still failed. Hitler's delusions led him to think offensives were the only way and defense was only a prelude to staging another offensive. Since German doctrine was bult around the mobile offensive and Blitzkrieg, his generals went along with him. (And then blamed him for their failure after he was dead.) Germany was never going to defeat the USSR after Moscow but thankfully for the world they didn't see it until much later and doomed their criminal regime to its downfall.
@@ggregd Well I wouldn't say the German failure at Moscow ruined their offensive capabilities. Its true that German logistics was never doing well throughout Barbarossa and resources were limited. However It was Stalingrad and Kursk that really weakened Nazi Germany as many veteran troops were lost. However German offensive capabilities were still not entirely crippled. They needed time to rebuild and continue the momentum, but as you mentioned Hitler was never a defensive person. He kept expecting Germany to go on the offensive. That was his own undoing.
Well, in reality Hitler's opinion about Manstein was at least partially true. He was not not capable of performing successful defensive operations with worn divisions , unlike Model for example.
@@aleksazunjic9672 What about Manstein's actions in the 3rd Battle of Kharkov? His troops were worn out after the Winter Thunderstorm relief attempt to relieve the Stalingrad Pocket, the Germans in the south were reeling after Stalingrad/Uranus and newly pressured by the Soviet Operation Star after they'd pulled back. Yet Manstein defeated the Soviets near Kharkov and solidified the line. Kharkov 3 was so successful that Manstein wanted to follow it up with an immediate attack on the Kursk salient, yet Hitler had him wait for the new wonder-tanks, while the Soviets built up the Kursk defenses. I'd say that Hitler was wrong in thinking that Manstein couldn't fight with "worn out troops". And given that the Germans were outnumbered and out-supplied by late 1943, it would have taken a series of brilliant "Hail Mary" counter-attack tactics as exhibited by Manstein at 3rd Kharkov. Putting Model in charge to replace Manstein may have been a mistake. Model was tremendously effective on defense, but he lacked Manstein's brilliant ability to counter-attack. To put it in American football terms, Model was a stodgy "prevent defense" type of coach while Manstein favored blitzing the quarterback when on defense. By late 1943 the Germans needed a series of defensive miracles, not a "pretty good" and mostly static defense (such as Model worked effectively against the Soviet counterattack from Moscow in 1941, as well as against the Soviet Operation Mars in 1942). Of course low fuel supplies may have been a factor in switching to Model, because Manstein needed fuel to be most effective. But that's not the same as being ineffective with "worn out troops". I will say though that Manstein's idea of abandoning Italy was not smart. Although continuing in Italy may have drained some German troops and resources from the Eastern Front, Kesselring made a very effective defense there. Ultimately the Allies gained nothing geographically valuable in Italy (in terms of defeating Germany) other than some additional bases air bases from which to bomb Germany and the Romanian oil fields.
1:26 On the left is General Theodor Busse, later the one that was supposed to stop the Red Army beofre entering Berlin. Busse by then long since worked as Manstein's Operations officer and later Chief of Staff.
When Hitler made a surprise birthday visit to Finland. June 4th 1942, Marshall Mannerheim's 75th bday. Hitler was hopping muster Mannerheim to attack Leningrad. In return Hitler enticed to give 109 fighters and stug 3 tanks. By then Finnish government and Mannerheim were vary about German fight with Soviet Union. After Hitler failed to heed the warnings about 1941 Russian winters in general and abandon his most experienced fighters and not providing winter clothing and winterized equipment. Finns knew then Germany is going to loose the war. Mannerheim knew Finnish army is not big enough to succeed attacking Leningrad and leaving most of eastern front exposed. After Stalingrad failure and reports of mass murder of civilians. 1943, Finns secretly started peace talks with Soviets. Through Swedish SU as a diplomat contact. Finns knew their country was way over their heads. Once Soviets have chance to attack using full force, as happened 1940. Armistice with Soviets involved lot of political back stabbing. As Finns wanted to survive. Germans knew by late 1943 Finland is trying to get out of war. By late summer 1944 Finns declared war against Germany and told them to leave Finnish Lapland, as Germans started to withdrew. There was play fighting to keep Russians happy. But SU told Finns to use force to get rid of Nazis, or else. Serious war started after Germans started use burn earth tactics. Burning most buildings in Finnish Lapland. That angered Finns, and rest is history.
They knew as early as 1943 the disastrous end was something inevitable. Yet, they went straight to it. Ironic. Just like Paulus knew the war with Soviet will be lost, yet he lead the 6th Army & proved himself how correct he was.
Putin wouldn't exist today: the Germans only wanted to use their conquered enemies as slaves to serve the German settlers who would be taking over their lands.
6:15 "her" twice--inexcusable. 8:25 shows Model, not Manstein 9:40 the clip from "Downfall" is of Weidling coming to the bunker in April '45, not Manstein coming to the Chancellery in January
Erich von Manstein was considered by many to be the best of the best. There was a plan considered at OKW (Armed Forces Command) to make him OB East (Supreme Commander Eastern Front), much as Gerd von Rundstedt was OB West & Albert Kesselring was OB South. But Hitler dropped it because he found Manstein to be too independent & was likely intimidated by or jealous of his keen intelligence & thorough grasp of any situation. Manstein did much of the planning for the invasion of Poland in 1939. Hitler had been dazzled by how effectively his forces overran the country in short order & subsequently admired this up & coming general staff officer.
@@Fallout3131 Yes, you can, but it doesn’t really work in a logical sense except the other way round: I can admire you, for example, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I’m jealous of you or that you give me a reason to be fearful. On the contrary, admiration suggests that I see your intelligence as wholly (or almost wholly) positive and worthy of both respect and being held in high regard. It is possible to be jealous or fearful of highly intelligent people, sure, but it is usually only sufficiently so. Since admiration is a positive trait, the negative emotions - fear and jealousy - aren’t really valid here. Indeed, if we start from the premise that I experience those negative emotions when contemplating your intelligence, then admiration is only sufficiently possible but not necessarily present: in this case, I would not see your intelligence as something positive and laudable, but as personally threatening or as something that causes me such a sense of personal insecurity that my reaction can only be one of jealousy rather than appreciation.
A better word than jealous is envy, which also goes well with fear and contempt. A person suffering from malignant narcissus personality disorder (Hitler) would not likely be capable of 4:33 true admiration for others. Anyone temporarily admired must also later be condemned for real or imagined reasons.
In reality, there was no evidence that Rommel was involved-however there is a suspicion the his Chief of Staff General Hans Speidel fired Rommel in to save his own skin.
Manstein, a half Polish half German general who contributed to 27 million victims of USSR. He's real name is Erich von Lewinski. He dropped the "Lewinski" after he was adopted by Georg von Manstein. Manstein's biological father originated from Polish nobility.
How Many millions of victims were killed by generals Bradley Montgomery patrons Macarthur, Eisenhower was responsible for starving to death a million or so german pows after the war ended
What you state is certainly true. He was also a brilliant strategist and commander. And to his credit, he disdained Nazism (as Hitler noted), though there is evidence of his carrying out some orders in the Ukraine of 'crimes against humanity'.
Good points, what is often missed is with the Cold War these German generals wrote the 1st histories of the Soviet war and covered their arses. I agree they're war criminals the SS couldn't do it all without Wehrmacht help
@kevinbrennan-ji1so You know that there are books, Operation Keelhaul by Julius Epstein, The Secret Betrayel by Leon Tolstoy and in these books is written in black and white just how 'democratic,' freedom giving, showing respect to the laws of war (???)and after, Eisenhower, Montgomery, ... were. Read the books. Quit accusing, since there were Allied commanders who acted in a two-faced manner. That right there is a STAB IN THE BACK. To deport refugees back to the Soviets 4-6mill is none democratic. SORRY.
its weird how people can be so brilliant in one area and at the same time be so dumb in others. how could manstein believe that hitler would voluntarily give up power?
I think Manstein believed he would be able to persuade Hitler because he thought that Hitler was a reasonable person, he also overestimated his ability to persuade him based on the dire emergency facing Germany, he thought wrong.
Movie scenes are from Downfall which is a fantastic film about Hitler's final days in the bunker. The Filed Marshall reporting to Hitler in the bunker is actually Weidling not von Manstein.
I would have appreciated if the correct pronounciation for Generalfeldmarschall Manstein would have been used, because this sounds absolute terriffic..
The German army was the "VERMAKHT", not the "WHEREMAKT". The W in German is pronounced as a V in English. Moreover, it's not "COO DEE EYTAH", but "COO DETTAH", Do learn how to pronounce the terms you use time and again in your clips. You might also consider that von Staufenberg did not carry out a coup d'état in Hitler's headquarters in East Prussia (2:55), but an assassination attempt. Interesting subject matter. Amateurish preparation and treatment.
This is why I’m glad to be an American soldier (retired) instead of any other nation. We take an oath not to an individual but to a document: the US Constitution. This allows commanders when faced with difficult orders to make the right decision by filtering said order through the Constitution. The sad thing with Rommel is that he was badly wounded and recuperation at the time of the July 44 attempted coupe. If he had been in command of troops in the West he might have made a difference even with Hitler’s survival. Like many Germans, the scales didn’t fall of their eyes in regards to Hitler until after the Wehrmacht had suffered overwhelming loses. Many supported Hitler when Germany was winning although there were a few, very few and very brave Germans who resisted Hitler from 1939 on. It is crazy that many in the military and civilian leaders thought they could convince the Anglo-Americans to stop their offensive and join Germany in fighting the Red Army, something that GEN Patton stated was not a bad idea-of course he wanted to roll into Berlin, kill HItler, and then go toe to toe with Stalin…
Yes, Patton (and later his son) literally enjoyed the slaughter of war. I'll never forget Patton's son, while being interviewed in Vietnam, talking fondly about his 'fine bunch of killers' and grinning ear to ear, proud of his statement. I put he and 'Bombs Away' Lemay in a category unto themselves - both would have gladly been employed by the SS had they been born in Germany instead of the US.
@@davidware9201 Russia wa scraping the bottom of the barrel near the end. I read they were releasing criminals from prisons and putting them in the Red Army to have enough.
That is a European military history. So, we must learn about that and one day we would be the better Generals and Field marshals of ours armies. Simple as that!
@@DaliborPerkovic-sw8mhTrue, well study how Hitler paid extra to all his field marshals to assure loyalty and for killing civilians to depopulate the countries.
No matter what talks, conversations, choices have been taken, Germany was doomed from the start. No matter if Hitler died plus leading to the arrest of Goebbels and other higi ranking officals, The Allies,especially USSR who was kinda running dry on manpower after bagration, still had the support of USA, UK and Free France so they continued advancing would never accept conditional surrender and only unconditional. If Germany surrendered later than july then the USAAF would have nuked them, 1st september 1939 being the reason USA even started its Nuke program. Also i see many going after wehrbroos claimings , mentioning that Hitler is to blame for most of the problems: Germany needed oil, Romania(Ploiesti) just wasnt enough, it was Hitler initiative ,to which many generals and field marshalls were reluctant to but still agreed. Many blame Hitler to give autonomy of the panzer corps to Rommel instead of total autority at Normady, but they couldnt clearly know where the allies would land , while Rommel true in his explanation that is a perfect beach for assaults and supplies unloading the intellegence command was in a trap of deception by the alies , enumarating so many names that the germans didnt have any idea where exactly they would land. Plus we are talking about the same germans that thought the allies have prepared amhibious operation for scandinavia, which many allied commanders deemed idiotic after the war, clearly stating that conditions and terrain would unsuitable, proving the allies had a more strategic doctrine than Germanies tactical doctrine. Other said Rommels plans to retreat further south of normady if the defense fails would let them organise and strike back, but it doesnt make any sense, they would have given the allies just more time to install they command posts, resupply , reinfroce with manpower, usint artillery and their mechanism of time on target they could eliminate or at least weaken any german defense line. Plus the allies also got the airforce on their side.
For the fortune of those that managed to survive the war is that AH was in command, if not the War would have dragged more and more people would have died uselessly. Today we assist to the same kind of scenario, again a comedian is bringing his own people to face a bitter end and worst, he’s playing someone else war against a percieved enemy.
@@jamesw.t.9591 I am not talking about the Miracle or win the war, after 1943. I talk about surviving of Germany, after 1945. And that was possible! But, Hitler made too much blunders and errors, and Germany failed win the ww2 on the end of year 1942. Simple as that! Be saluted and do not laugh to me too much, because your knowledge about that theme is too slim and simple. Sorry, but this is the truth about you and the knowledge of European military history.
@@DaliborPerkovic-sw8mh the unconditional surrender didn't change a thing. After the war it's gonna be west and east germany anyway because i don't think soviet will accepted it without a fall of germany.
@@jamesw.t.9591 The 3rd Reich got one chance to survive 1945 and ww2 to the bitter end. Germany in 1943 was still got 12 millions soldiers of the Wehrmacht+ one million soldiers ( the best of the bests soldiers ) of the Waffen SS. Also, Germany got the best quality and the best experienced troops with the best generals and Feldmarschalls in all the world war2 armies and troops. After defeat near Kursk, Hitler must planned final and ultimate defense in the heart of Germany, for spring and summer 1945. That project was called the Alpenfestung or the Alps fortress. Idea was making of many strongholds and little fortress, and bunkers, little towns and military space under the mountains of the Alpes ( mainly in south of today Austria ). That system would got a potential for prolong ww2, after May of 1945, between 2 or even 4 years. But, that project must be started realised after the summer of 1943 to spring 1945. In that European mountains would be hidden enough weapons, food and medical reserves on time for the next precious defense moments . Idea is that the 3rd Reich would continuing fights in Europa even in years 1946, 1947, 1948 and 1949. Because Germany in that time was very technology superior about producing ultra modern weapons. It would be also possible that Hitler drop two atomic bombs to New York before that Americans do the same on Germany or Japan in summer of 1945. PS: If you dont know, Germany got first atomic bomb even in March, 1945. Be saluted, my friend!
Manstein had reason to be aggrieved that Hitler wouldn’t see him. Traditionally German, or at least Prussian, field marshals had the privilege of being seen by the head of state on request.
I wonder what all these generals thought about the idea of attacking the Soviet Union in the first place. Were they also of the opinion that it was necessary to do so? And what war aims would they have proposed in relation to an attack on the USSR? I mean if you are a general you must have some ideas on the ultimate purpose of the overall operation you're part of. Or did even the generals of the Wehrmacht only follow orders? If so they were as important as regular soldiers.
they were all in agreement that invading the soviet union was a terrible idea however history mentions one of them saying germany could take russia in 2 weeks lol...he got promoted and hitler started a slow purge to replace everyone around him to yes men no matter how stupid they were...they wanted him to focus on africa and malta and cairo/suez (eventually me and india to connect with japan...imagine if japan and germany had a safe road to trade equipment with...imagine japan with german uboats in the pacific or japanese carriers in the atlantic/med) and build up the uboat fleets and naval air force more people think everyone just bowed down to hitler but in reality the majority of the prussian officer corps were against him and thought him stupid... guderian was against the invasion at first but was against how mainly (i think the thrill of donig it got to him as a tank commander it was the ultimate test to his lifes studies)....guderian wanted a strong one prong strike toward moscow the full weight of germany and its panzers on that city then expand out first leningrad then stalingrad...he understood moscow was the administrative center of the soviet union without it they would lose all contact with far regions and messages would take stone age times with riders and pigeons or pilots flying around everywhere...no more telecommunications by wire and it was the main supply hub and connected all of russia with itself...without moscow soviet union would have way less and be almost impossible to supply its whole nation in the far reaches... if moscow fell japan most likley would have attacked far east russia too... there is a good book called "the moscow option" that goes over alternative history like this...what if moscow fell in december before christmas? what if japan won at midway? check it out
In general, they were against it or at least to postpone it until Germany was much more ready, but since Hitler had already made up his mind to attack, they all threw themselves into the work of figuring out the best way to go about it.
1).the Generals in the East thought Rommel, an infantry general, a gifted amateur, commanding 4 divisions when they commanded armies & army groups. 2). By 1943 the end was obvious, no fuel meant the motorbikes were swapped for bicycles, the tanks never drove more than 20km having to use trains. 3). In total Germay made 50k AFVs of every type, tanks, assault guns, SPGs, armoured cars. The Allies had fuel, plus USA made 50k Shermans, USSR made 50k T-34s (plus Honeys, Grants, TDs, Churchills, Comets... plus KV1s, KV2s, IS2s, IS3s, SU76s, SU100s, ISU152s). Plus aircraft. So no contest
How seriously can one judge the military merits of these individuals when every actions they. may have wanted would inevitably be comprised by the Supreme Leader
No secret meeting required between Rommel and Kesselring.....they both hated each other. Kesselring used to refer to Rommel as the "Kleine Württemberger" as he thought all men from Württemberg were rather weak types. Upon coming back from an extended absence Rommel wanted an immediate answer as to who was tactically fulfilling his job. The answer was Kesselring, Rommel swore and stated he was glad to be returning to assume control of the situation.
Germany had some of the best Field Marshals and Generals that the world had to offer. Hitler was constantly meddling. But even if Hitler would've kept out of everything and allowed his Field Marshal's and Generals to run the war, I think that they would have been defeated anyway, eventually, but it would have been much, much harder.
How was it even possible that germany basically took on the whole world,and kept going for so long a mere 20 years after the great war,with all their losses,mindblowing
No, but, modern lipreaders are beginning to decipher old ww2 films, For example, The now famous, and on youtube to view, A gathering of high ranking nazis, with Hitler and Eva braun. They are discussing which film is on the berghoff cinema room that evening. In one part Hitler says to Eva, " I know what you want..... You want... Gone with the wind" That film being the top movie of the day. It's a human moment, And like any bloke, Hitler sees Eva as being a little bored.
The opposition in wehrmacht - Canaris, Rommel, perhaps Manstein - was not in it for democracy. They wanted a peace treaty with the West allies, to continue the war against Soviet. The occupied zones in France, Holland, Belgium, Norway and Denmark should be abandoned, and the borders be put where the German empire had been before 1914. And Hitler should be taken down, but Germany still be a fascist state, that should expand into Soviet. Awful people, those generals and field marshals. The contacts they had with England was allegedly put down by Churchill with the words ”We only accept unconditional surrender”.
5:05 "[Rommel] told her that Manstein was a brilliant strategist . . . " Alexander Stahlberg was a woman? This pronoun appears twice again at about 6:15
So sick of these robotically narrated videos. Either read the script yourself, get someone else to do it, or be prepared for a lot of thumbs down. Sick of this cheap AI content.
The war was already lost when Germans didn't defeat England in the Battle for Britain. Private Hitler and Pilot Goering grossly overestimated the German air force.
No it wasn't. The only time the war was really lost was when Hitler took command of the German armed forces at the end of 1941. Once he was in charge of all the military decisions thats when the war was unwinnable.
Using "AI" to narrate this presentation makes it nearly impossible to watch. It is also incredibly LAZY. If you're going to post, PUT SOME EFFORT into it. The cadence of speech, unnatural word choice and syntax, and occasional mispronunciations is grating. PLEASE - don't do this.
I'm not too sure about that. The Soviet counteroffensive would've forced Manstein to retreat even if he did break through at Kursk, especially since Model's army in the north barely got to about 10 miles from their starting line before being stopped dead in its tracks.
I really like the subjects of this guy’s videos. But it would be really nice if he would hire a narrator if he’s not going to learn English. The computerized voiceover is ear-splitting.
Manstein was very good, but a little naive in thinking that Hitler would ever give up being supreme commander. Germany's early successes in the war led Hitler to believe He really knew what he was doing when he should have listened to his generals.
Yea almost unbelievably naive, but hindsight is 20/20. It could be that Rommel was just really good at seeing through to a person's real nature and he realized it with Hitler.
Manstein probably said to his aide, "He's going to lose this war unless he makes me the head of the Wehrmacht. I'll go home and ask my wife to pull a rabbit out of her hat. I will then ask her to make us a tasty dinner. After we lose this war, I will become the leader of a large company; I will make great cars and finish what Hitler didn't."
Rommel met with Hitler at Rastenburg in March 1943, just after the surrender at Stalingrad and advised him to withdraw from North Africa. Hitler refused, and that Spring 250,000 of Rommel's soldiers surrendered in what was called "Tunisgrad" Rommel must have realized at that point that Hitler was leading Germany to disaster.
I think alot of them realized Hitler was an idiot when it came to military matters, but what could they really do other than scheme in the shadows to remove him.
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00:00 Meeting with Hitler July 13
01:40 Manstein, Rommel and Kluge dinner
05:58 Manstein's dismissal
07:32 What did Hitler think of Manstein? The promise...
08:27 Manstein's visit to Hitler in Berlin 1945
¿Puede publicar el enlace de sus videos en español?
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It is little appreciated that Rommel had a far better grasp of strategic and grand strategic matters than people give him credit for. Great video. Thanks for loading this up.
Rommel had seen Allied airpower and superiority.
He'd seen the taxi rank of aircraft waiting in the sky to be notified of German ground targets as they were identified.
A bit like Russian and Hamas fighters nowadays being identified and liquidated by airpower.
@@redtobertshateshandles I am trying to think what Rommel ever won?
Rommel was somewhat careless about logistics, so he tended to outrun his supply lines.
@@michaeldowson6988 Perhaps, but you have to consider, he was constantly racing against British and Allied logistics. He could never keep up because the Axis never fully controlled the Med. So, he could have reasoned that an aggressive manoeuvre war might defeat the enemy before their superior logistics could keep up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but this may have been the reason for his seemingly rash decisions.
Rommel, from my observations and after reading the memoirs of his along with Manstein, Guderian and Hoth's, was really what I would consider a first-rate corp commander, similar to Patton. I don't think he had the vision (or the desire) to lead complete armies or army fronts. That, both Manstein and Guderian could do. Rommel did have an appreciation for air superiority, however, and his counsel on the western wall should have prevailed or Rundstedt's. He knew the only chance was to defeat the enemy on the beaches.
Very interesting to laymen like me. This is what makes this channel so valuable.
Rommel is such a different fighter that would lead the men by the front.
Guderian had sound ideas about defending Berlin, but Hitler decided to waste the forces he gathered on Operation Spring Awakening. Courland Pocket and Norway garrisons still had nearly 500,000 men when Berlin fell. Add the Army Group Center in the Prague which still has about 600,000 men you get over a million men instead of something like 200,000 in and around Berlin during the last days of the war. German armored reserves had over 1000 tanks before the Spring Awakening but that got melted away after the operation.
They could have marshalled all those men and still would have lost, maybe delayed end of war by 3 weeks. The Soviets would have just completely outflanked them from the south if they abandoned the Hungarian and Czech regions.
@@davidjackson2179 You are right, think about it they could not arm 200,000 let alone million men in Berlin
@@davidjackson2179 The Germans 4th Panzer Army near Dresden actually defeated just such an attempt to encircle Berlin from the South in the Battle of Bautzen (21st - 26th of April, 1945), which caused significant damage to the Soviet 52nd and Polish 2nd armies and stopped them cold. It was one of the last tactical victories for the Germans in the war. Could they have held off like this forever with those trapped Courland forces? Probably not, but troops concentrations that large are nothing to scoff at...that's enough men and equipment to form to complete armies.
WHAT THE FUUUUCK
And removing men from those fronts would have allowed the anime to concentrate their resources as well. And with what fuel would any sort of a defensive been mounted? Should have proven two staff They simply would have been bombed for months and months by the allied Air forces before finally being pushed aside.
The German military absolutely could have delayed things into late 45 or even possibly 46 but the end was coming.
If Hitler would have kept his nose out Operation Barbarossa as well as all the major offensives and counteroffensives that came after, Manstein would have been truly unstoppable. He was not only a tactical genius, he knew when to give ground and then launch counterattacks to retake it as he did in the February-March counteroffensive which culminated in the Third Battle of Kharkov and very nearly wound up being a complete route for the Soviets. Time and time again his very sound advice was ignored by Hitler with disastrous consequences for Germany. I'm not saying other generals like Guderian, Model, and Rundstedt weren't capable commanders, but Manstein just seemed to have an uncanny ability to sense his opponent's next move before they made it.
Manstein was only a corps commander at the start of Barbarossa. Given the know logistics limitations of the Wehrmacht beyond about 300mi into Russia, we can probably say that only one of Leningrad, Moscow or Kiev could be taken. if so, which is more decisive? It turns out Moscow was key because of the rail links that allowed the USSR to route resources withing the Soviet Union, though I would really need to see a rail network map. For this, Guderian was in the best position to carry out the mission. But in the face of Hitler desiring Kiev, Guderian put higher priority in keeping 2nd Panzer Group as one formation than insisting on Moscow.
On strategy, sure Manstein came up with the winning idea for France. However, the Germans never seem to grasp resources available to the Soviets. They seemed to know how many formation the Soviets had west of the Urals, and were certain these were shattered, leaving only remnants and reservists hurried into units without a proper TO&E. But surely they knew the size of forces were east of the Urals?
Oshima clearly told Ribbentrop that while the Japanese government sympathize, in no circumstances could they join.
I see no indications that the Germans comprehended a massive influx from the east was coming.
Also, consider in 41, the Soviets launched many reckless counter attacks against the Germans, before finally holding off with Siberian forces until a weighted blow could be delivered. In 42, the Soviets actually went on the offensive - in three places.
But in spring-early summer 43, the Soviets suddenly went quiet. How could attack happy Stalin do this? The Germans could see the defensive fortifications going up around Kursk, but never fully grasped the depth of it. I don't blame Manstein for not recommending cancelling Zitadelle, because as a front commander, it was his role to be aggressive, and the strategic commander back home to ponder the big question. Of course, we know now that the Soviets had timely minutes of Hitlers war council discussions, such that even questions could be replied to quickly.
Really, the best outcome would have been liberal use of Manstein's Schwert und Schild proposal in eastern Ukraine while build good fortifications on the Dneiper. I have only seen parts of the Dnieper myself. The right bank of Dnieper around Kiev was definitely a good place for a defensive line.
Selenski studies history every night. Apparently hadn't got to the battle of Kurst yet ?
The Generals could have done nothing about the Oil Shortages, they were doomed from the start by not having enough oil reserves. Plus they wouldn’t have survived the US Bombing Campaign, if prolonged a few more months they would have been subjected to B-29 Bombing Raids & eventually the A Bomb.
They needed the Oil Fields more than Moscow or Leningrad.
Manstein also left the 6th Army to die in Stalingrad vs allowing Paulus to breakout, he should overrode Hitler’s stand fast order.
It was an informative and wonderful historical coverage video about three commanders ( Rommel, Kluga ,and Manstein)' relationships amongst themselves and Manstein concrete prospective toward Dictator (Adolf Hitler)... thank you for an excellent ( war academy) channel for sharing this magnificent video
Ty
Exactly,
wonder what chiefs of staff could've done to possibly win the war, or at least end it with am upper hand , or a draw ... instead of the real outcome.
@LaughingStud Someone should have told Hitler to forget about providing aid to the Italians as they were being defeated by the Greeks. Someone should have told Mussolini to stop his plans of invading Greece. The actual invasion of Soviet Russia was planned in May of 1941 not June 22. One month added on to Operation Barbarossa would have given Germany enough time to defeat Stalin. My opinion.
The Iron Cross is perhaps the most impressive of all military medals.
No. It is the Victoria Cross!
0:23
Of German medals the Pour le Mérite is more eye catching.
@@richardd334To you. For me it's the Iron Cross.
@@prof_kaos9341I would say it is the most beautiful.
You mean the Knight cross with swords, oak leaves and diamonds,
It’s interesting to see how pragmatic and military-centered these wermacht men were, as opposed to being ideologues. It took me a while to realize that they weren’t real national socialists, nor were top USSR generals actual diehard communists, and so on.
Most of them were not, especially the older like von Rundstedt, Kluge, Guderian...The younger though often were. Most of them probably Model, who, howeverm in being a pro-Nazi did not loose his senses and often clashed with Hitler if he disagreed (his famous reply to Hitler once was "My Führer, who does hold the command of the 9th Army. You, or me?"). And Rommel was probably awed by Hitler, who knew how to get his influence on him (by making him the most popular soldier and giving him a Field Marshall rank). However even Rommel came to realise how bad Hitler's leadership and also his other activities were.
In the General staff there were more Nazi officers - Keitel and Jodl were fully mesmorised by Hitler. Also both well known Krebs and Burgdorf were both Nazis, aswell as General Maisel (who, with Burgdorf were the ones overseeing Rommel's suicide).
And still they supported Hitler and executed the Comisar order and let the men serving under them help the SS with the Final Solution. The only pragmatic and non ideoligic part of them was that they tried to get rid of Adolf Hitler the moment they realised that they were losing the war and they had to get rid of Adolf Hitler. In many ways there were even worse and more dangerousthen the SS because of that attitude.
They weren't Nazis, but they definitely weren't bothered by the worst aspects of Nazism. The Heer was not the clean force that generals like Manstein tried to repaint it as after the war. They fit much more in the banal evil like Adolf Eichmann.
@@AlejjSi Interesting insight thanks
They supported Hitler to the end! Only AFTER the war have they claimed that they opposed Hitler!
Love your videos. Thank you.
Ty
thanks for sharing ! 👍
never heard of this before...
Ty
An excellent video. I hope you do more stories like this
Ty
Rommel was often right, and Manstein was also often right,.... but Manstein was delusional in this.
Manstein was also smart enough to know what was going to happen if the Coup did not succeed. And we saw what happened to both Rommel and Kluga. Meinstein lived until 1973. At least Manstein did not throw the Couping Generals under the bus, which speaks very loudly, but sadly, he is never given any credit for this.
Prior to Kursk, Manstein offered up two strategies for the battle which he called "Forehand" and "Backhand".
Manstein much preferred the "Backhand" strategy, in which German forces would allow the Russians to attack out of the Kursk salient, then give ground until the Soviets had stretched their logistic trains to a given limit, then he would unleash the German panzer divisions upon the Russian flanks and decisively destroy them.
The Forehand strategy was the general Kursk offensive that Hitler insisted on, which failed miserably. Hitler was a moron.
Agree!
And Manstein recommended only attempting the employed strategy if it was done in early to Mid-May, not in early July, as he knew the Soviets would dig defense lines, which they did. Hitler insisted on waiting for the new Panther tanks to arrive.
Still, Manstein was correct in the latter days of Kursk in urging that his forces to continue to destroy Russian reserves rather than have the core of the remaining German offensive capability re-routed to Sicily. Of course, Hitler refused.
Furthermore, Hitler resisted the 'backhand' strategy as it involved initially giving up ground. His mind could never fathom what benefit that would entail.
The worse things became, the more Hitler meddled and made things even worse.
Are there any independent sources besides Manstein himself confirming this? His own memoirs Verlonene Siege (Lost Victories) are hardly reliable. His claims about the numbers of opposing forces and his own account of his actions have been disproven. I’m certainly not an admirer of Hitler nor a holocaust denier. No sane person is, but writing apologetics after Ww2 turned into a cottage industry for German ex-commanders.
If Manstein was given full control of the German military in the East without Hitler intervening I think he could have brought the Soviets to a draw in 43/early 44. But his strategy did not fit with Nazi ideology, where he was mocked as "General Retreat". But I think he could have stopped the Russians or brought them to the negotiating table while Germany still had the ability to negotiate.
Who's the best? Rommel or Manstein? For larger formations ans strategic grasp, the latter wins. But, despite often being derided by his peers as a gifted leader of smaller forces, it was Rommel who realized that the war was lost when the United States entered the fray. Dr Todt had reached the sane conclusion at the end of 1941. Ironically, as Hitler favorite general, Rommel saw more and more that his Fuhrer was leading Germany to disaster. So he hoped that by defeating the Allied invasion of France, a seperate peace might be secured with the Western powers, thus enabling Germany to send all its forces East, to confront the Russian menace. To this end, he strengthened the Atlantic Wall, with a new urgency.. That of defeating the Allies on or near the beaches. It was a risky strategy, but in Rommels view the only hope of success, because he knew Allied air power would effectively shatter any counter attack from deep in France. When Hitler listened to a second rate general and ruined Rommels plan by putting the vital Panzer divisions directly under OKW (i.e. Hitlers) control, Rommels loyalty declined further. So the Desert Fox conducted a dogged defence in Normandy, and when that was exhausted he pleaded with Hitler to retreat. History knows the rest. The Germans were shattered at Falaise, and Rommels was seriously wounded by RAF fighters. He knew about the plot to kill Hitler, and did not censure, let alone report, officers who openly advocated assassation as the only way of ending the war quickly. Manstein was not so realistic.
To me the biggest mistake was that Hitler was personally in charge of the war. He should have appointed Manstein supreme commander on the Eastern front. Battles lost by Manstein were not his fault. Staling rad, koursk and then south Ukraine were defeats because of Hitler. Manstein was the best high ranking officer in the German army. And the second big mistake was to remove him from the front.
100%, Hitler had no training as a general staff officer, the most complicated strategy he could come up with was hold your ground at all cost, which destroyed one German army after another and cost them the war. There's been a trend in modern times by certain historians to revise history and make it seem like Hitler was not to blame for these massive military disasters.
Informative vlog.
Phrasing WW2 a conflict is an absolute understatement and misunderstanding.
Manstein was too career oriented and blind to accept the reality that was going on around him. He still had hopes that he could change the outcome of the war in the Eastern front if had enough support from the high command. That all changed for him when Hitler had him replaced in March 1944 when he failed to stop the Soviets during the Dnieper- Carpathian offensive which saw Army Group South terribly weakened, causing it to be split in two and also depleting Germany's strategic reserves for any future offensives.
Further to this Hitler had field marshal Walter Model to immediately take over Army Group Centre as Manstein's replacement. His decision to place Model was because Model was a defensive expert. Though Model constructed sufficient defenses, he did not expect the massive offensive that would be carried out against his forces by the Soviet Union. Operation Bagration came in like a thunder storm. Such a large scale offensive with tremendous artillery and aerial support, shattered his defensive networks. The sheer might of the Soviet offensive saw the complete destruction of Army Group center as an effective fighting force. The German 9th army and 2nd army lost over 80% of their strength. The German 4th army was encircled at Minsk and was destroyed. The German 3rd panzer army which was the only armoured support for Army Group center and which consisted of veteran armoured formations, lost most of its tanks and assault guns. Of the 34 divisions that were available in total, 28 divisions of Army Group Centre were destroyed. The surviving 6 divisions lost more than 50% of their strength. It was the worst defeat for the Wehrmacht and the final nail to the third Reich's coffin. All offensive capabilities were crippled at this point.
One could argue that their offensive capabilities were spent after the failure of Barbarossa. Every offensive subsequent to that had more and more limited resources and goals. Kursk was a last gasp designed simply to show the world Germany could win a major offensive, and yet it still failed. Hitler's delusions led him to think offensives were the only way and defense was only a prelude to staging another offensive. Since German doctrine was bult around the mobile offensive and Blitzkrieg, his generals went along with him. (And then blamed him for their failure after he was dead.) Germany was never going to defeat the USSR after Moscow but thankfully for the world they didn't see it until much later and doomed their criminal regime to its downfall.
@@ggregd Well I wouldn't say the German failure at Moscow ruined their offensive capabilities. Its true that German logistics was never doing well throughout Barbarossa and resources were limited. However It was Stalingrad and Kursk that really weakened Nazi Germany as many veteran troops were lost. However German offensive capabilities were still not entirely crippled. They needed time to rebuild and continue the momentum, but as you mentioned Hitler was never a defensive person. He kept expecting Germany to go on the offensive. That was his own undoing.
Well, in reality Hitler's opinion about Manstein was at least partially true. He was not not capable of performing successful defensive operations with worn divisions , unlike Model for example.
@@ggregd There's a total difference between being "spent" and "having more limited resources in subsequent offensives".
@@aleksazunjic9672 What about Manstein's actions in the 3rd Battle of Kharkov? His troops were worn out after the Winter Thunderstorm relief attempt to relieve the Stalingrad Pocket, the Germans in the south were reeling after Stalingrad/Uranus and newly pressured by the Soviet Operation Star after they'd pulled back.
Yet Manstein defeated the Soviets near Kharkov and solidified the line. Kharkov 3 was so successful that Manstein wanted to follow it up with an immediate attack on the Kursk salient, yet Hitler had him wait for the new wonder-tanks, while the Soviets built up the Kursk defenses.
I'd say that Hitler was wrong in thinking that Manstein couldn't fight with "worn out troops". And given that the Germans were outnumbered and out-supplied by late 1943, it would have taken a series of brilliant "Hail Mary" counter-attack tactics as exhibited by Manstein at 3rd Kharkov.
Putting Model in charge to replace Manstein may have been a mistake. Model was tremendously effective on defense, but he lacked Manstein's brilliant ability to counter-attack. To put it in American football terms, Model was a stodgy "prevent defense" type of coach while Manstein favored blitzing the quarterback when on defense. By late 1943 the Germans needed a series of defensive miracles, not a "pretty good" and mostly static defense (such as Model worked effectively against the Soviet counterattack from Moscow in 1941, as well as against the Soviet Operation Mars in 1942).
Of course low fuel supplies may have been a factor in switching to Model, because Manstein needed fuel to be most effective. But that's not the same as being ineffective with "worn out troops". I will say though that Manstein's idea of abandoning Italy was not smart. Although continuing in Italy may have drained some German troops and resources from the Eastern Front, Kesselring made a very effective defense there. Ultimately the Allies gained nothing geographically valuable in Italy (in terms of defeating Germany) other than some additional bases air bases from which to bomb Germany and the Romanian oil fields.
great video
Ty
Good history Channel
Interesting but these AI narrated documentaries are hard to listen to for more than a few minutes.
Wow, the first I've heard about this exchange!
Because it's fake!
Interesting Cheers
1:26 On the left is General Theodor Busse, later the one that was supposed to stop the Red Army beofre entering Berlin. Busse by then long since worked as Manstein's Operations officer and later Chief of Staff.
Very informative and educational video......................thank you!
Feldmarshall von Bock told von Manstein as well that he would serve under him
Every proper german general saw that. Only youtuber TIK hates Manstein because of the latters competence.
@@davidschrumpfinger7191 Have you ever seen Ukrainian steppe?
@@MarcinSkwarczynski yes
When Hitler made a surprise birthday visit to Finland. June 4th 1942, Marshall Mannerheim's 75th bday. Hitler was hopping muster Mannerheim to attack Leningrad. In return Hitler enticed to give 109 fighters and stug 3 tanks. By then Finnish government and Mannerheim were vary about German fight with Soviet Union. After Hitler failed to heed the warnings about 1941 Russian winters in general and abandon his most experienced fighters and not providing winter clothing and winterized equipment. Finns knew then Germany is going to loose the war. Mannerheim knew Finnish army is not big enough to succeed attacking Leningrad and leaving most of eastern front exposed. After Stalingrad failure and reports of mass murder of civilians. 1943, Finns secretly started peace talks with Soviets. Through Swedish SU as a diplomat contact. Finns knew their country was way over their heads. Once Soviets have chance to attack using full force, as happened 1940. Armistice with Soviets involved lot of political back stabbing. As Finns wanted to survive. Germans knew by late 1943 Finland is trying to get out of war. By late summer 1944 Finns declared war against Germany and told them to leave Finnish Lapland, as Germans started to withdrew. There was play fighting to keep Russians happy. But SU told Finns to use force to get rid of Nazis, or else. Serious war started after Germans started use burn earth tactics. Burning most buildings in Finnish Lapland. That angered Finns, and rest is history.
I'm curious - how many forces did the Germans have in the Lapland?
Lol you Finns and Germans invaded Russia together and got your ass kicked 😂
They knew as early as 1943 the disastrous end was something inevitable. Yet, they went straight to it. Ironic. Just like Paulus knew the war with Soviet will be lost, yet he lead the 6th Army & proved himself how correct he was.
And then he defected.
Another youtube channel using A.I voiceover?
awful
Manstein should have had total control in the war with the Soviets, had that been the case Putin would be speaking German today.
Actually Putin is fluent in German most KGB agents are multilingual.
You are 100% correct!
Putin wouldn't exist today: the Germans only wanted to use their conquered enemies as slaves to serve the German settlers who would be taking over their lands.
Zhukov owned him pal
@@kingmisogyny1852 Žukov owned who?
6:15 "her" twice--inexcusable.
8:25 shows Model, not Manstein
9:40 the clip from "Downfall" is of Weidling coming to the bunker in April '45, not Manstein coming to the Chancellery in January
How do they know these words were said?
Erich von Manstein was considered by many to be the best of the best. There was a plan considered at OKW (Armed Forces Command) to make him OB East (Supreme Commander Eastern Front), much as Gerd von Rundstedt was OB West & Albert Kesselring was OB South. But Hitler dropped it because he found Manstein to be too independent & was likely intimidated by or jealous of his keen intelligence & thorough grasp of any situation. Manstein did much of the planning for the invasion of Poland in 1939. Hitler had been dazzled by how effectively his forces overran the country in short order & subsequently admired this up & coming general staff officer.
Your comment is contradictory: if Hitler was jealous or fearful of Manstein’s intelligence, he certainly didn’t admire him.
@@feliscoraxYou can’t be jealous of someone you fear or admire?
@@Fallout3131 Yes, you can, but it doesn’t really work in a logical sense except the other way round: I can admire you, for example, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I’m jealous of you or that you give me a reason to be fearful. On the contrary, admiration suggests that I see your intelligence as wholly (or almost wholly) positive and worthy of both respect and being held in high regard. It is possible to be jealous or fearful of highly intelligent people, sure, but it is usually only sufficiently so. Since admiration is a positive trait, the negative emotions - fear and jealousy - aren’t really valid here. Indeed, if we start from the premise that I experience those negative emotions when contemplating your intelligence, then admiration is only sufficiently possible but not necessarily present: in this case, I would not see your intelligence as something positive and laudable, but as personally threatening or as something that causes me such a sense of personal insecurity that my reaction can only be one of jealousy rather than appreciation.
@@feliscorax Well written. That makes sense, and I now understand the point you are making. I agree. Thanks for the explanation
A better word than jealous is envy, which also goes well with fear and contempt. A person suffering from malignant narcissus personality disorder (Hitler) would not likely be capable of 4:33 true admiration for others. Anyone temporarily admired must also later be condemned for real or imagined reasons.
Any citations for this video?
I'm sure the room the three had dinner in was bugged with listening devices by the Gestapo!
0:01 "Many World War 2 fans"
Excuse me??
You heard the man
Meaning many serious historical followers or students of WWII history..... not fans of the act of war....surely you understood this.
@@AvioftheSand Not a man. A machine…
Great info, well written. But AI voice is intolerable…
I like the German marshal who replied something like: if you persist in bringing these discussions to me, I shall have to report to this
Wow, Rommel may have been more involved in July 20.
He certainly was supportive of the effort.
In reality, there was no evidence that Rommel was involved-however there is a suspicion the his Chief of Staff General Hans Speidel fired Rommel in to save his own skin.
Well this is a nice story you made up. Or are there any sources??
Manstein, a half Polish half German general who contributed to 27 million victims of USSR.
He's real name is Erich von Lewinski. He dropped the "Lewinski" after he was adopted by Georg von Manstein.
Manstein's biological father originated from Polish nobility.
How Many millions of victims were killed by generals Bradley Montgomery patrons Macarthur, Eisenhower was responsible for starving to death a million or so german pows after the war ended
What you state is certainly true. He was also a brilliant strategist and commander. And to his credit, he disdained Nazism (as Hitler noted), though there is evidence of his carrying out some orders in the Ukraine of 'crimes against humanity'.
Ironic considering what the Germans did to the Poles. But Manstein was Prussian at heart.
Good points, what is often missed is with the Cold War these German generals wrote the 1st histories of the Soviet war and covered their arses. I agree they're war criminals the SS couldn't do it all without Wehrmacht help
@kevinbrennan-ji1so You know that there are books, Operation Keelhaul by Julius Epstein, The Secret Betrayel by Leon Tolstoy and in these books is written in black and white just how 'democratic,' freedom giving, showing respect to the laws of war (???)and after, Eisenhower, Montgomery, ... were. Read the books. Quit accusing, since there were Allied commanders who acted in a two-faced manner. That right there is a STAB IN THE BACK. To deport refugees back to the Soviets 4-6mill is none democratic. SORRY.
Manstein thinking Hitler giving away power if things get out of line...Too loyal or too stupid of a GFM?!
almost delusional i'd say. Or, Rommel was just that good at seeing through the nature of people.
There was no secret meeting!! EVER!
Hitler never understood the value of sound tactical withdrawals.
its weird how people can be so brilliant in one area and at the same time be so dumb in others. how could manstein believe that hitler would voluntarily give up power?
I think Manstein believed he would be able to persuade Hitler because he thought that Hitler was a reasonable person, he also overestimated his ability to persuade him based on the dire emergency facing Germany, he thought wrong.
Think had manstien been head of German forces ,they would have faired better under his direction
Movie scenes are from Downfall which is a fantastic film about Hitler's final days in the bunker. The Filed Marshall reporting to Hitler in the bunker is actually Weidling not von Manstein.
I would have appreciated if the correct pronounciation for Generalfeldmarschall Manstein would have been used, because this sounds absolute terriffic..
Is this narrated by AI??
I recently watched a video of yours about the Wahermachet and the SS.
“In that way.”
We hear this again and again.
Also, several times we hear “her” instead of “him.”
What is this?
Rommel was right when it came to Normandy and having the battle line at the beachhead
The German army was the "VERMAKHT", not the "WHEREMAKT". The W in German is pronounced as a V in English. Moreover, it's not "COO DEE EYTAH", but "COO DETTAH", Do learn how to pronounce the terms you use time and again in your clips. You might also consider that von Staufenberg did not carry out a coup d'état in Hitler's headquarters in East Prussia (2:55), but an assassination attempt. Interesting subject matter. Amateurish preparation and treatment.
This is why I’m glad to be an American soldier (retired) instead of any other nation. We take an oath not to an individual but to a document: the US Constitution. This allows commanders when faced with difficult orders to make the right decision by filtering said order through the Constitution. The sad thing with Rommel is that he was badly wounded and recuperation at the time of the July 44 attempted coupe. If he had been in command of troops in the West he might have made a difference even with Hitler’s survival. Like many Germans, the scales didn’t fall of their eyes in regards to Hitler until after the Wehrmacht had suffered overwhelming loses. Many supported Hitler when Germany was winning although there were a few, very few and very brave Germans who resisted Hitler from 1939 on. It is crazy that many in the military and civilian leaders thought they could convince the Anglo-Americans to stop their offensive and join Germany in fighting the Red Army, something that GEN Patton stated was not a bad idea-of course he wanted to roll into Berlin, kill HItler, and then go toe to toe with Stalin…
You are the slaves of j bankers
Yes, Patton (and later his son) literally enjoyed the slaughter of war. I'll never forget Patton's son, while being interviewed in Vietnam, talking fondly about his 'fine bunch of killers' and grinning ear to ear, proud of his statement. I put he and 'Bombs Away' Lemay in a category unto themselves - both would have gladly been employed by the SS had they been born in Germany instead of the US.
Bad idea Stalin had the yak 3 and better tanks,and 280 some divisions
@@davidware9201 Russia wa scraping the bottom of the barrel near the end. I read they were releasing criminals from prisons and putting them in the Red Army to have enough.
Incendiary bombing, Hiroshima and Nagasaki would like to have a word with you because there was nothing right about that.
Can't change anything, that was 80 years ago, so can't change everything.
That is a European military history. So, we must learn about that and one day we would be the better Generals and Field marshals of ours armies. Simple as that!
@@DaliborPerkovic-sw8mhTrue, well study how Hitler paid extra to all his field marshals to assure loyalty and for killing civilians to depopulate the countries.
Ughh! . . . a robot! . . . . . I will be avoiding War Academy videos in the future.
Manstein should have been placed C-in C Ostfront late 1942, and Rommel C-in-C North Afrika, then Western Europe.
Is there a transcript or primary source for this meeting? I am Writing a thesis on Rommel’s involvement and need some primary sources.
its probably all fake
No matter what talks, conversations, choices have been taken, Germany was doomed from the start. No matter if Hitler died plus leading to the arrest of Goebbels and other higi ranking officals, The Allies,especially USSR who was kinda running dry on manpower after bagration, still had the support of USA, UK and Free France so they continued advancing would never accept conditional surrender and only unconditional. If Germany surrendered later than july then the USAAF would have nuked them, 1st september 1939 being the reason USA even started its Nuke program.
Also i see many going after wehrbroos claimings , mentioning that Hitler is to blame for most of the problems: Germany needed oil, Romania(Ploiesti) just wasnt enough, it was Hitler initiative ,to which many generals and field marshalls were reluctant to but still agreed.
Many blame Hitler to give autonomy of the panzer corps to Rommel instead of total autority at Normady, but they couldnt clearly know where the allies would land , while Rommel true in his explanation that is a perfect beach for assaults and supplies unloading the intellegence command was in a trap of deception by the alies , enumarating so many names that the germans didnt have any idea where exactly they would land. Plus we are talking about the same germans that thought the allies have prepared amhibious operation for scandinavia, which many allied commanders deemed idiotic after the war, clearly stating that conditions and terrain would unsuitable, proving the allies had a more strategic doctrine than Germanies tactical doctrine.
Other said Rommels plans to retreat further south of normady if the defense fails would let them organise and strike back, but it doesnt make any sense, they would have given the allies just more time to install they command posts, resupply , reinfroce with manpower, usint artillery and their mechanism of time on target they could eliminate or at least weaken any german defense line. Plus the allies also got the airforce on their side.
Goes to show that no matter how high up the chain 'soldiers' go they ALLLLLL need SOMEONE to give them "orders".. 😈
For the fortune of those that managed to survive the war is that AH was in command, if not the War would have dragged more and more people would have died uselessly.
Today we assist to the same kind of scenario, again a comedian is bringing his own people to face a bitter end and worst, he’s playing someone else war against a percieved enemy.
That's good. He likely would have pulled off another miracle and prolonged the war.
And that would be better for Germany and Europa too! The unconditional surrender was not an options.
From 1943 .
No one can bring miracle for germany.😂😂😂
@@jamesw.t.9591 I am not talking about the Miracle or win the war, after 1943. I talk about surviving of Germany, after 1945. And that was possible! But, Hitler made too much blunders and errors, and Germany failed win the ww2 on the end of year 1942. Simple as that! Be saluted and do not laugh to me too much, because your knowledge about that theme is too slim and simple. Sorry, but this is the truth about you and the knowledge of European military history.
@@DaliborPerkovic-sw8mh the unconditional surrender didn't change a thing.
After the war it's gonna be west and east germany anyway because i don't think soviet will accepted it without a fall of germany.
@@jamesw.t.9591 The 3rd Reich got one chance to survive 1945 and ww2 to the bitter end. Germany in 1943 was still got 12 millions soldiers of the Wehrmacht+ one million soldiers ( the best of the bests soldiers ) of the Waffen SS. Also, Germany got the best quality and the best experienced troops with the best generals and Feldmarschalls in all the world war2 armies and troops. After defeat near Kursk, Hitler must planned final and ultimate defense in the heart of Germany, for spring and summer 1945. That project was called the Alpenfestung or the Alps fortress. Idea was making of many strongholds and little fortress, and bunkers, little towns and military space under the mountains of the Alpes ( mainly in south of today Austria ). That system would got a potential for prolong ww2, after May of 1945, between 2 or even 4 years. But, that project must be started realised after the summer of 1943 to spring 1945. In that European mountains would be hidden enough weapons, food and medical reserves on time for the next precious defense moments . Idea is that the 3rd Reich would continuing fights in Europa even in years 1946, 1947, 1948 and 1949. Because Germany in that time was very technology superior about producing ultra modern weapons. It would be also possible that Hitler drop two atomic bombs to New York before that Americans do the same on Germany or Japan in summer of 1945. PS: If you dont know, Germany got first atomic bomb even in March, 1945. Be saluted, my friend!
Manstein had reason to be aggrieved that Hitler wouldn’t see him. Traditionally German, or at least Prussian, field marshals had the privilege of being seen by the head of state on request.
I wonder what all these generals thought about the idea of attacking the Soviet Union in the first place. Were they also of the opinion that it was necessary to do so? And what war aims would they have proposed in relation to an attack on the USSR? I mean if you are a general you must have some ideas on the ultimate purpose of the overall operation you're part of. Or did even the generals of the Wehrmacht only follow orders? If so they were as important as regular soldiers.
they were all in agreement that invading the soviet union was a terrible idea however history mentions one of them saying germany could take russia in 2 weeks lol...he got promoted and hitler started a slow purge to replace everyone around him to yes men no matter how stupid they were...they wanted him to focus on africa and malta and cairo/suez (eventually me and india to connect with japan...imagine if japan and germany had a safe road to trade equipment with...imagine japan with german uboats in the pacific or japanese carriers in the atlantic/med) and build up the uboat fleets and naval air force more
people think everyone just bowed down to hitler but in reality the majority of the prussian officer corps were against him and thought him stupid...
guderian was against the invasion at first but was against how mainly (i think the thrill of donig it got to him as a tank commander it was the ultimate test to his lifes studies)....guderian wanted a strong one prong strike toward moscow the full weight of germany and its panzers on that city then expand out first leningrad then stalingrad...he understood moscow was the administrative center of the soviet union without it they would lose all contact with far regions and messages would take stone age times with riders and pigeons or pilots flying around everywhere...no more telecommunications by wire and it was the main supply hub and connected all of russia with itself...without moscow soviet union would have way less and be almost impossible to supply its whole nation in the far reaches...
if moscow fell japan most likley would have attacked far east russia too...
there is a good book called "the moscow option" that goes over alternative history like this...what if moscow fell in december before christmas? what if japan won at midway? check it out
In general, they were against it or at least to postpone it until Germany was much more ready, but since Hitler had already made up his mind to attack, they all threw themselves into the work of figuring out the best way to go about it.
1).the Generals in the East thought Rommel, an infantry general, a gifted amateur, commanding 4 divisions when they commanded armies & army groups. 2). By 1943 the end was obvious, no fuel meant the motorbikes were swapped for bicycles, the tanks never drove more than 20km having to use trains. 3). In total Germay made 50k AFVs of every type, tanks, assault guns, SPGs, armoured cars. The Allies had fuel, plus USA made 50k Shermans, USSR made 50k T-34s (plus Honeys, Grants, TDs, Churchills, Comets... plus KV1s, KV2s, IS2s, IS3s, SU76s, SU100s, ISU152s). Plus aircraft. So no contest
Interesting except for the bad computer voice.
The pronunciation Manstein & Kursk in this video is odd.
Commentary must be AI because it pronounces coup d'etart as "Coup de etart."
It is
There is no “r” in coup d'état
whoops! Sorry! there is no de
The world is better since Manstein decided to change his name to Mannhein Steamroller and perform Christmas concerts.
The Man, the Myth, the Legend, he was right.
Use human voice pls
Cou-Dee-etah? 😂
How seriously can one judge the military merits of these individuals when every actions they. may have wanted would inevitably be comprised by the Supreme Leader
This is the BS they used after the war - blame Hitler for everything :D In reality, they often made mistakes themselves.
No secret meeting required between Rommel and Kesselring.....they both hated each other.
Kesselring used to refer to Rommel as the "Kleine Württemberger" as he thought all men from Württemberg were rather weak types.
Upon coming back from an extended absence Rommel wanted an immediate answer as to who was tactically fulfilling his job. The answer was Kesselring, Rommel swore and stated he was glad to be returning to assume control of the situation.
You gotta work on the translation. You're saying "her" when you mean "him"
Germany had some of the best Field Marshals and Generals that the world had to offer. Hitler was constantly meddling. But even if Hitler would've kept out of everything and allowed his Field Marshal's and Generals to run the war, I think that they would have been defeated anyway, eventually, but it would have been much, much harder.
How was it even possible that germany basically took on the whole world,and kept going for so long a mere 20 years after the great war,with all their losses,mindblowing
Pffftt, The Qing Dynasty did it nearly 100 years prior when they fought The Alliance of USA, GB, France, Prussia, Russia, Japan in the Boxing War.
@@harukrentz435 and the Chinese lost real quick, while having superior numbers.
This video is deeply interesting and well written and researched. But that AI voice is intolerable…
This footage of Hitler and Manstein talking, is there any audio to hear what they're saying?
The high ranking command officers were prohibited to record their decisions, and conversations.
No, but, modern lipreaders are beginning to decipher old ww2 films,
For example,
The now famous, and on youtube to view,
A gathering of high ranking nazis, with Hitler and Eva braun.
They are discussing which film is on the berghoff cinema room that evening.
In one part Hitler says to Eva, " I know what you want..... You want...
Gone with the wind"
That film being the top movie of the day.
It's a human moment,
And like any bloke, Hitler sees Eva as being a little bored.
The opposition in wehrmacht - Canaris, Rommel, perhaps Manstein - was not in it for democracy. They wanted a peace treaty with the West allies, to continue the war against Soviet. The occupied zones in France, Holland, Belgium, Norway and Denmark should be abandoned, and the borders be put where the German empire had been before 1914. And Hitler should be taken down, but Germany still be a fascist state, that should expand into Soviet. Awful people, those generals and field marshals. The contacts they had with England was allegedly put down by Churchill with the words ”We only accept unconditional surrender”.
"LOOK ARROUND YOU TODAY AND YOU SHALL SEE WHO WAS RIGHT"
5:05 "[Rommel] told her that Manstein was a brilliant strategist . . . " Alexander Stahlberg was a woman? This pronoun appears twice again at about 6:15
he was gender fluid
So sick of these robotically narrated videos. Either read the script yourself, get someone else to do it, or be prepared for a lot of thumbs down. Sick of this cheap AI content.
Conversation went a little something like we're fucked
Yes! But, it was not still over, yet!
The war was already lost when Germans didn't defeat England in the Battle for Britain. Private Hitler and Pilot Goering grossly overestimated the German air force.
Baloney!
No it wasn't. The only time the war was really lost was when Hitler took command of the German armed forces at the end of 1941. Once he was in charge of all the military decisions thats when the war was unwinnable.
Using "AI" to narrate this presentation makes it nearly impossible to watch. It is also incredibly LAZY. If you're going to post, PUT SOME EFFORT into it. The cadence of speech, unnatural word choice and syntax, and occasional mispronunciations is grating. PLEASE - don't do this.
Not Where Mock but Ver Mockt
I'm not sure Manstein could have done much once the front was torn open. Germany didn't have much left to build a line with.
Landing in Sicily captured Hitler's mind instead of listeningto Manstein who said to Hitler that he can win the Kursk offensive.
I'm not too sure about that. The Soviet counteroffensive would've forced Manstein to retreat even if he did break through at Kursk, especially since Model's army in the north barely got to about 10 miles from their starting line before being stopped dead in its tracks.
I really like the subjects of this guy’s videos. But it would be really nice if he would hire a narrator if he’s not going to learn English. The computerized voiceover is ear-splitting.
The one person who could have saved the Eastern Front was out of a job.
Who was that?
@@harukrentz435 Manstein, and what I mean by that was he was the only one that could but that was not guaranteed.
Rommel & BARACA 2 favourite general’s
VG video, but do not appreciate the repeating cuts from the Hitler movie.
Manstein was very good, but a little naive in thinking that Hitler would ever give up being supreme commander. Germany's early successes in the war led Hitler to believe He really knew what he was doing when he should have listened to his generals.
Yea almost unbelievably naive, but hindsight is 20/20. It could be that Rommel was just really good at seeing through to a person's real nature and he realized it with Hitler.
It's fact that the Rommel used to treat all army Group like just one batallion. So this descaracterize all his strategies
"Koo de tah" Three syllables.
Coup d'etat still 3
@@anthonyfuqua6988phonetic spelling - still 5
You lost me with the incorrect way of speaking their German names.
Manstein probably said to his aide, "He's going to lose this war unless he makes me the head of the Wehrmacht. I'll go home and ask my wife to pull a rabbit out of her hat. I will then ask her to make us a tasty dinner. After we lose this war, I will become the leader of a large company; I will make great cars and finish what Hitler didn't."
Rommel met with Hitler at Rastenburg in March 1943, just after the surrender at Stalingrad and advised him to withdraw from North Africa.
Hitler refused, and that Spring 250,000 of Rommel's soldiers surrendered in what was called "Tunisgrad"
Rommel must have realized at that point that Hitler was leading Germany to disaster.
Did they REALLY not get that they were then, and had been, dealing with a headcase ?
I think alot of them realized Hitler was an idiot when it came to military matters, but what could they really do other than scheme in the shadows to remove him.
If Hitler would have let Mussolini run the show the war would have been over in Sep 41
Mussolini was the Hitler of Italy. Mussolini invaded Greece before conquering Egypt. Hitler declared war on the USA before conquering Russia.