Thanks for getting this analysis so quick. Aside from the flashlight, the new HR sensor was an important selling feature. It appears this isn’t the accuracy leap that I was hoping for. Thanks for analysis and content. Also, very kind of you to shout Matt LeGrand, Chase the Summit and others on your channel.
yeah pretty disappointing considering garmin has some of the nicest exercise and hiking features in the OS. I guess they'll still need to be paired with a chest strap to be fully nice. looks like I'll be sticking with my Huawei Fit 2 for now.
@@Doniyorbek_Turgunov yeah, I can;t imagine the hardware senson on the Apple Watch 8 is actually that much better - it's just the algorithms that compensate for watch vs wrist movement are probably better..
Garmin have always been pretty inaccurate i wouldnt rely on them for a sport watch. I seen a guy with 3 fenix 7 and they all had differant heart rates hence why i never bothered buying one.
I recently purchased a titanium Fenix 7 saphire solar, after spending several hours on U tube & I'd like to comment on the accuracy of the sleep tracker; in a word, impressed. If I wake up during the night, I make a note of the time, if I remember any sort of dream I record it. I then check my sleep tracker first thing upon waking up in the morning and up to now, it hasn't missed a beat. I've also compared the heart rate sensor with a medical grade cuff sensor, and again, bob on. Navigation, as most would atest, is pretty near perfect and doesn't really warrent discussion.
What exercises, if any, were you doing when comparing the heart rate tracking of the watch to the medical grade heart rate cuff? This is a pretty important factor.
Another great video. I went with an Apple Watch. At 62 years old, I felt the best sleep tracking was needed HOWEVER, I sure wish it had Garmin's looks and battery life. Sigh.
I still prefer the possibility to wear my watch for days in a row without the need for charging over a bit higher accuaracy. I am mainly interested in the trends. For this, the accuracy of my Garmin FR255 is the perfect watch. However, whenever Apple is able to fix the battery life issue up to Garmin’s standard (battery life of 7 days or more), I will definitely consider an Apple watch as I am an Apple fan.
@@TheQuantifiedScientist it's all good if folks are too lazy to throw it on to charge while they shower should they even have a sports or smart watch lol. I run the ultra and a series 8 and mine are topped of every morning while I shower if they need it or not. and have never had one die yet! the Garmin boys going to fuss no matter what, or till Garmin fixes their soft wear and gets their accuracy better!
Thanks for quickly releasing this review, I was amongst those who were interested in upgrading the Fenix 7 to a 7 Pro. Based on your initial comparison I will hold out a bit and gather more information. By the way, there is a significant weight difference between the steel and titanium versions of these watches and I noticed you have mentioned the weight issue quite a bit during your testing. It would be interesting to test if the titanium versions are any better at HR and sleep tracking compared to the steel versions, such a comparison video could prove to be an unexpected hit :)
Thanks for looking at the new watch sensor in this video! Please test the Garmin HRM Pro Plus strap next! I would especially love to see a comparison to the Polar H10 reference!
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Great video and data analysis! I think that we have to compare Epix Pro Gen 2 and Fenix 7 Pro with Fenix 7 or Epix 2, not with Forerunner 965. Lighter watches have always better results comparing to havier ones (FR 965 vs. F 7) . New gen Epix and Fenix are slightly better than FR 965, I would expect that FR 975? with a new sensor will be even better than new gen Epix and Fenix, even though not as accurate as Apple watch.
Thank you for this rewiew! I can't wait for firmware updates that hopefully will increase accuracy of the new sensor and maybe I will buy Fénix 8 when it gets released. One word of advice that I would try - try nylon straps on the watches as it decreases weight and you can adjust it better for tighter fit, or at least for me it works much better. Also if you are still up for help from community, I can do some testing, we could even meet and discuss it as I am just an hour from your place.
Oh wow! I just noticed the shout out at the end of the video. You are too kind!!! I really tried hard to find a significant difference while swimming, biking and running with the new HR sensor but it was tricky to compare the Elevate 4.0 to the 5.0. The way you've compared this by activity type is the correct way to do it. I think that's a hard concept for people to figure out. Some activity types are harder than others for optical HR sensors. We're also both similar in skin tone. I'd love to see more data on a larger population with different skin tones. Amazing video as always Rob!!!
Thank you for the great reviews! Do you plan to make one for Garmin Venu 3? I wonder if they improved the sleep tracking since they included a lot of related functions.
Have you considered comparing the heart rate accuracy when wearing the watch inwards or “upside down” so it reads the inside of your wrist? I sometimes wear my watch this way to see my stats better while cycling outdoors.
Hi! This has indeed been suggested before. I have been a bit hesitant because this is not the manufacturers recommended way of wearing it. But, indeed something to consider. THanks!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist a person's individual wrist size and shape a person's individual wrist size and shape a person's individual wrist size and shape a person's individual wrist size and shape a person's individual wrist size and shape 👍👍👍👍 that mean you can use another person when you test Whoop 4.0, wear it on the upper arm (bicep) and try use Garmin or any watch , on the upper arm just for one day please and make this video
I've yet to find an optical/wrist based HRM that is accurate on weight training, cycling or indoor rowing - this is a useful video that backs up my belief that this technology, however it is refined, is only useful for activities that don't heavily involve the use of the arms. Cheaper and more sensible to buy a slightly lower end watch (Instinct 2, or 2X) and a chest strap for cover of HR when cycling or weight trainng (assuming you care about HR accuracy). Good video, thank you!
wrist HW will never be accurate if you involve your arms . Its simply because you make constant pictures of your blood vessels filling and with arm involvement the tissue compression leads to false readings.So if thats important to you wear a chest strap that will never change. People hype up the apple watch but thats mostly apples marketing power. With arm involvement its just the same up to 20% of and by that useless. But try to tell that to an apple fanboy.
Thank you for the comprehensive and informative tesing and report of results of the new HR configurartion and HR output versus the Polar reference device. Exactly what we should all be thinking about as almost all fitness metrics for these watches are based upon HR, it is important the the HR measurement is accurate. I especially like seeing the data as you formatted it with R^2 values calculated and shown. I subscribed. Thank you!
The reason I gave away my Epix gen 2 was because the heart rate sensor in rest mode was not accurate. I discovered that the sensor in rest mode decreased the frequency of heartbeat reading (the LED turned on much less often than in the mode during activities) thus reporting values that were always different from reality with enormous delays. This implied that all of the stats for the entire day were off. Now, is the PRO version with the new sensor better?
I'm glad you brought that up because it has been mentioned by a few reviews, i called Garmin and they said that they didn't know about that when you put the Fenix 7 pro into a tracking sports mode the heart rate sensor applies more LED light for a better reading, and only two engaged when just in normal mode without an activity, i find this very sneaky of Garmin not to mention this, not cool at all.
It have that exact same issue, it’s to safe battery. I have the Garmin epix pro, and tried it on my daughter who have a heart condition (POTS) where heart rate rapidly increases when standing up. Apple can easily detects this. And the Garmin can’t detect these sudden high heart rates. Only in activity mode than all leds go on. So for her it’s useless I have my epix for sale and wear the Apple Watch .
Strange results. 'fit gear hunter' tested 20 crossfit workouts and got a correlation value of 0.96 which is pretty impressive for crossfit. All reviews so far except for yours feel a big difference putting it right up there next to Apple. But, How are you getting so great results with all apple watches? My Ultra is so delayed compared to a H10 and even a Forerunner 945lte. I hear this is a common problem with Apple watches
I follow him for a long time, and I have become extremely suspicious about the results. There might be some methodology problem and they way he present the data also makes a big deals out of things that are irrelevant. I think he miss the forest for the trees and even though the apple watch perform very well in his benchmarks it doesn't necessarily represent the average real world behavior. I have apple watches since gen 3 and I think there is some cheating going on in the newer software...
This results are spot on my experience with the Ultra and The epix 2. Only use Apple Watch for sports and Garmin for maps, that's the only thing they're good at.
@@Miguel-cq1ms Your point is invalid since this is not epix 2. This test is based on the epix 2 pro and Fenix 7 Pro with a brand new hr sensor. I agree the elevate 4 was horrible - i question his method since many other reviewers get correlation values above 0.95+ putting it right up there next to apples accuracy on heart rate.
@@mortenvinther8940 I’m comparing the results with the ultra and the previous one in my own experience, without any tests. The problem with this sensors it the tame it takes to react to a sudden HR elevation, Garmin takes a long time, Apple is way more responsive.The new sensor seems to be almost the same. This reviewer is spot on. Not sure about others.
Interesting that the Venu 2 did well in your test, and it more closely resembles the Apple watches. Could size and weight be a factor? Also it would be good to repeat tests with someone with a bigger wrist.
Another thing except for accuracy is whether new sensor bring also other data like ECG, skin temperature etc. and, if so, when. And would these new data be reliable and accurate and usable in Garmin s ecosystem?
The key is consistency in measurement for the individual regardless of accuracy - no need to worry about accuracy across different people, skin colours, hair etc - the key is to ensure the watch is tightly seated on the wrist and not on the bone of the wrist etc
Thanks for a detailed review! Waiting for your test of huawei watch 4 series. I picked gt 3 pro after your tests of heart rate (I use oura for sleep tracking, and watches for activity), so I'm really curious, if they managed to improve it even further.
For what it’s worth I find the band makes a huge difference. When I used the standard silicon band that came on the Fenix the HR was abysmal. Switching to a cheap nylon band brought it more in line with my Apple Watch
So Huawei develops better heart sensors than Garmin !? why don't other youtubers dare to show it? I am (was) considering a fenix 7 pro and given the price I would have expected Garmin to be on top. Thumbs up for your vid.
Bought a few Huawei watches Excellent heart rate and Build quality but the difference in functionality between a 30 dollar Huawei and a 3000 Huawei is minimal.
I've had an older instinct, and a Fenix 6 I used 24-7 and for cycling. Neither of these watches could accurately track my HR over about 120 by the wrist. Totally useless for workouts. I always used an external HR strap. Recently I went to a garmin head unit for cycling, sold the watch, and I'm using Whoop for daily health metrics tracking. The whoop band is totally accurate at the wrist for HR. I would totally go back to a Garmin watch if it didn't lose my HR after 120bpm.
It would be nice to know how tight you have the watch around your wrist, since this is a major factor in its accuracy, however it's pretty difficult to maintain the same level tension in the wrist band between tests
Garmin really need to sort their sleep tracking out; its really my only complaint.... thanks very much for this, definitely not upgrading from my Venu 2 Plus now!
I thought the sleep tracking result was great except if you are tracking rem. Getting 93% on deep sleep and 91% on awake are very good results and better than the Apple watch which is leading the combined charts, probably due to better rem detection. I care more about tracking awake and deep sleep so this is great news.
With wrist HR I am always quite sceptical but if a new sensor is released its quite normal that the algorithm has to be perfected. With f.e. Suunto Spartan Whr it took about 6 months and several updates were they improved the hr accuracy signifficant . I would do annother test with tze f7pro in 6 months. Problem with Garmin is just that they have too many models and tze speed with which they adress issues is because if that often very slow or non-existent
All this heart rate and GPS testing is all very interesting, I use an Huawei watch fit 2 so feel quite chuffed at my budget choice, nevertheless it all resolves down, for me at least, to 1. my best time over a set running course, and 2. my vo2 max. Is there any way you could start giving us your vo2 max using the devices compared to the cooper calculation say, I doubt it would require a near death experience each time, we would be seeing a relative accuracy between the cooper calculation and cumulative figures as you test each watch, the fact it likely underestimates your claimed vo2 max of 58 wouldn't matter I don't think ?
Great video, so methodological. I have had my Fenix 7X Solar for a few weeks. Disappointed with the heart rate a lot.... during interval runs and fast Park Runs it misses a lot. I paid 800EUR for my watch. Would I buy again! Don't think so. GPS tracking is not any better than on my 10 years old Forerunner 920X !!!!!
Same for me, I returned it after a couple of weeks of testing: Apple Watch was always spot on with HR accuracy during sprinting while Fenix 7x solar was off with about 30-40 heart beats less.
Very interesting data. The thanks for sharing. While I don't know the algorithms behind raw data processing in the device, I imagine algorithms struggles with near factors two between fast changes in HR to keep locked on frequency tracking. There are physical models behind the very noisy raw data and generated tracked data which are filters using previous data...
Seems I’ll not be moving onto Garmins anytime soon. Was really hoping i could now ditch the Ultra. They *really* need to invest heavily in their algorithm because it seems that’s what’s letting them down when it comes to data accuracy. Great video.
I wouldn't take these tests seriously. Apple is known for releasing hardware with well-calibrated software. Watches that are more compatible with Android systems will achieve accuracy a little later. My Garmin Venue 2 plus only started reading sleep time accurately 8 months after the watch was released. Venu 2 and Venu2 plus are practically the same watches, but in the test they are so different in accuracy. The reason must be a software update.
Personally, I would not dare to buy any Chinese products, because they become worse after a year, since technology is usually bought for 2 years in the Chinese market. Garmin, Polar expected to reach Apple level more or less 6 months after release.
Not sure if this has already been answered. But did you see any differences between the nightly HRV between the 2 sensors? I use a chest strap for workouts anyway so accurate heart rate during sleep and rest is my main use for the heart rate monitor
Nice detailed review. One thing I would like reviewers to test is wristed-based stroke rate on watches which list it for indoor rowers lacking bluetooth (many of us have simple rowers with no bluetooth)...indoor rowing is gaining popularity and is fun.
Are you using a Concept 2 erg? With PM4 or MP5 screen? You can connect the watch via ANT+ to it and then get all Data such as Watts, stroke rate, split...
After many years, I have given up on using Garmin to track my sleep, HRV etc and now only use Whoop for night time sleeping to track these metrics. I've spent thousands on Garmin watches and now only use them for fitness & workout tracking only. Oh well, we live and learn.
Thank you. A good video and comparisons. An accurate heart beat function is fundamentally important both for sport activities and health. Have you ever considered whether the difference between the various watches and straps and their apps is related to how frequently the watch measures a heart beat and then how frequently this is written to the watches display and graphics. I understand all the watches and straps particularly by manufacturer for these two items are different. If someone has a max heart beat in excess of 180 bpm then the watch/strap has to be able to measure at least 4 times per second. If the measurement then is only written to the displaying graph every 6 seconds (I think that’s what Garmin Contact app displays) then for short high intensity sprint activities in particular the accuracy will always be poor and generally will not present an accuracy representation. The Apple Watch’s general non activity measurement display can be very poor for this reason when you look at the ‘Show All Data’. This might explain some of the variations between the watches.
I would really suggest if you can repeat the Venu2 Plus test please. Venu 2 seems doing well not sure why not the Plus version. Both have the same sensors and almost same hardware,
Should compare with other stuff. I have a Whoop 4.0 band now that seems to be super accurate where Garmin Fenix 6 required HR strap to read my HR correctly over 120. Wrist based was useless over 120 -- so basically any workout.
It’s very sad that the Apple Watch is spanking the thing in every possible way, now including heart rate accuracy. If Apple adds body battery, stress, a few little things there’s literally no reason outside of the apocalypse with the solar to buy a Garmin anymore. Already, I have to wear my Fenix 7X and my Apple Watch Ultra to get the functionality I need for work and working out.
I cracked up when the Garmin ad came up while watching this. Disappointed he didn't see the "Garmin HR Crash Effect" that so many of us experience while working out in a variety of ways, where the watch basically gives up and drops around 80 BPM and stays there until you exit out of the workout. The Garmin forums are filled with people complaining about this issue. Essentially, if you need HR accuracy, get an Apple Watch and deal with their abysmal battery technology. If you need accurate GPS and battery life get a Garmin. Or just get a cheap ass Casio and stop worrying about all that crap! I wish I could do that, maybe some day...
Did you get a chance to review fourth frontier x2 ,which is apparently world's first 24 hour heartrate and ecg monitor in the world??? Great video by the way
So, king of heartrate and sleep stage tracking, is still Apple watches! 😉 Rob, are you planning on testing the pixelwatch 2 in a near future? 🙂 I would love a Android based alternative, as I'm not really a fan of being forced to use a iphone! 😊
...as a sleep tracker probably not: with the much lower battery life, one will likely track much less nights than with the Garmins... Also Apple dindt have all stages in their algorythm... Heartrate accuracy is important for sleep-tracking but accelerometer measurements and the software even more so... Now if it has to be something with Android-Wear then look at the TicWatch: I think it s better to have complete data with a good accuracy than data with excellent accuracy but systematic gaps!
@@rdnax92 We each probably have different uses and thus preferences, which will dictate what is most important to us! 😉 Since I'm very interested in monitoring sleep, as accurately as technically possible and also have a interest in cardiovascular health, those two parameters then becomes very important to people like me! 😉 And accuracy of sleep stage detection, for the Apple watches, already has also been validated by others using other equipment that monitors things like breath. I just would like an alternativ, that doesn't forces me to use iphone, as this means I would only use it to connect to my Apple watch....which seems a bit excessive on cost, and is also not very practical either, having to service multiple mobile phones. But if nobody can match Apple(not even Google), I guess this becomes the only option.
@@danieljrgensen133 You should try around though... Fitbit was able to track spontaneous naps during the day with accurate stages, as well... whereas thats difficult with a Garmin... the last one, on the other side, offers beathrates and SPO2 during sleep (not necessarily worse than Apple)... And finally practicality and integration to your routine: You may not need an iPhone if you get the LTE-version of Apple... But will you charge it every (second) day? and will it be as accurate on you as well?
@@rdnax92 I have borrowed a friends Apple watch SE(2022) and it lasted me approx 3,5 days(45mm)....if I activated the battery saving feature. But just as important, it was quick at charging up(putting it on the charger before showering, seemed to do the trick for me). But yes, I obviously would like to have something like on a Garmin, like 14 days. But it will eventually come, as batteries get better capacities and processers gets better at conserving power. Which leaves me with the final wish, of having an OS independent tracking device! 😉
@@danieljrgensen133 I'm a bit sceptical with power saving: having 24/7 an expensive wearable, with tons of features and functions, unused seems.... Unusual in the long run... But that's not an issue if you're okay with charging... For essential improvements you'll probably have to wait couple of years... But I'm pretty sure you can avoid owning an iPhone with an LTE version and you probably can even integrate it in your existing mobile contact...
My friend thanks for this informative content. Though I would love to see you check the accuracy of calories expenditure on smart watches like the apple watch.
Even if the HR sensor was 99% accurate, I can't see it being worth $800 and $1000. Maybe I'm just not the target market, but none of this screams to be worth that much of a premium over other Garmin devices. Heck, for that much, it better come with a rock solid multi-year warranty because you're paying for it by a multiple.
Dear Rob, good night. My name is Kise, from Rio de Janeiro City, Brazil. Have you evaluated the accuracy of the Garmin Fenix 07 PRO as a blood pressure monitor? If so, could you share your first impressions? I started practicing physical exercises again to control hypertension, so I'm looking for a device that allows me to monitor blood pressure changes throughout the day. Best regards, Kise.
Fenix 6 is more accurate than my new Fenix 7 pro in my opinion. Average heart rate reading with the Fenix 7 pro is really inaccurate. It seems to struggle to get an accurate reading warming up but then an hour into the run seems to be similar to the Fenix 6 in accuracy.
I’m on the border of getting the fenix pro but also debating on seeing if the 8 comes out this year. I think a aftermarket band would also help with the heart beat numbers.
Interesting, your results are way different than results of many other people who compared the senzors. Also - its weird that Apple is ranked so high in your results. I think you have some methodology flaw.
I know that the weight of the watch is an important factor when it comes to heart rate accuracy, but can you also measure the accuracy of the Garmin Forerunner 255s or 265s models?
Sample size of one is the big fault here.. skin colour, how much you sweat, products on arm... I could sway results easily...How tight is the strap... Apple almost perfect Mmmmm others have done this test and get entirely different results... End of the day, how good does it work for you.
Hi Bob my name is Deepak and I am a student, dose not have that much budget, could you please recommend low budget smart watch which can able to accurate day to day monitor my health. Please, love from India
Apple Watches leverage an excellent sensor on the ML hardware capabilities for their heart rate measurements which results in more realistic readings. Garmin seems to try a more brute force approach relaying mostly on its sensor. Too bad Apple doesn’t know what to do in terms of training with all the data it collects.
@@Mannex17 I only care about fitness workout accuracy , anything else is bonus, for now I got a fit 2 as it is in my budged, but if this band 8 gets close to it... will be huge. Especially that now they have like an offer 90euros for 2 of them, crazy 😁😁
Can u review huawei gt3 SE? Is the device sensor as good as huawei gt3 n gt3 pro? As i cant afford apple watch or garmin watch, i opt for huawei gt3 that has the 2nd best hr tracker after apple watch
I'm guessing the galaxy. huawei watches all seem to stink at sleep tracking. If you want a watch that is pretty good at both heart and sleep tracking, I'd go with the Google Pixel Watch
funny how my apple watch is exactly the same as my garmin and amazfit , differs for each person . (sleep cycle) and other movements. like walking and calories . my apple calculated just as similar to my garmin and other fitbit . so these tests this guy does is an isolated in ident . so many factors come into play . but my Garmin 100 percent tracks my deep sleep on point and my rem. i can tell . same thing as an apple.
Disappointing results. Garmin have a bad sleep tracking in general can't even track naps(neither apply to the metrics of recovery) and you you need to manually input your sleep schedule, none other watch require this. People would say you are biased towards the Apple but neither DC Rainmaker, Desfit, Chase the Summit, etc mention the most of the negatives of the Garmin watches.
Why cant Garmin fix their heart rate sensors....How cann apple and huawei be so far ahead? I love the Garmin brand but I need a better heart rate sensor. Until then I won't buy. Oh btw, can you please rerun the heart rate sensor test of Garmin Venu, I'm surprised it keeps beating all the watches.
Thanks for getting this analysis so quick. Aside from the flashlight, the new HR sensor was an important selling feature. It appears this isn’t the accuracy leap that I was hoping for. Thanks for analysis and content. Also, very kind of you to shout Matt LeGrand, Chase the Summit and others on your channel.
yeah pretty disappointing considering garmin has some of the nicest exercise and hiking features in the OS. I guess they'll still need to be paired with a chest strap to be fully nice. looks like I'll be sticking with my Huawei Fit 2 for now.
Thanks so much for the kind comment!
Most probably, they will fix it with the soft next update...
@@Doniyorbek_Turgunov yeah, I can;t imagine the hardware senson on the Apple Watch 8 is actually that much better - it's just the algorithms that compensate for watch vs wrist movement are probably better..
Garmin have always been pretty inaccurate i wouldnt rely on them for a sport watch. I seen a guy with 3 fenix 7 and they all had differant heart rates hence why i never bothered buying one.
I recently purchased a titanium Fenix 7 saphire solar, after spending several hours on U tube & I'd like to comment on the accuracy of the sleep tracker; in a word, impressed. If I wake up during the night, I make a note of the time, if I remember any sort of dream I record it. I then check my sleep tracker first thing upon waking up in the morning and up to now, it hasn't missed a beat. I've also compared the heart rate sensor with a medical grade cuff sensor, and again, bob on. Navigation, as most would atest, is pretty near perfect and doesn't really warrent discussion.
Thanks for this info, I am looking to get that exact watch
I went from an Apple Watch Ultra to the epix pro 47mm and I never go back . Love this Watch and what it can do
What exercises, if any, were you doing when comparing the heart rate tracking of the watch to the medical grade heart rate cuff?
This is a pretty important factor.
Another great video. I went with an Apple Watch. At 62 years old, I felt the best sleep tracking was needed HOWEVER, I sure wish it had Garmin's looks and battery life. Sigh.
it's coming, hold tight!
I still prefer the possibility to wear my watch for days in a row without the need for charging over a bit higher accuaracy. I am mainly interested in the trends. For this, the accuracy of my Garmin FR255 is the perfect watch. However, whenever Apple is able to fix the battery life issue up to Garmin’s standard (battery life of 7 days or more), I will definitely consider an Apple watch as I am an Apple fan.
Samsung with their R&D should be in theory maybe below Apple but above Garmin. They have alot to do.
Indeed! The battery life of Apple Watches is terrible, and this could be something I emphasize more in my videos 🙂
@@TheQuantifiedScientist it's all good if folks are too lazy to throw it on to charge while they shower should they even have a sports or smart watch lol. I run the ultra and a series 8 and mine are topped of every morning while I shower if they need it or not. and have never had one die yet! the Garmin boys going to fuss no matter what, or till Garmin fixes their soft wear and gets their accuracy better!
Thanks for quickly releasing this review, I was amongst those who were interested in upgrading the Fenix 7 to a 7 Pro. Based on your initial comparison I will hold out a bit and gather more information.
By the way, there is a significant weight difference between the steel and titanium versions of these watches and I noticed you have mentioned the weight issue quite a bit during your testing. It would be interesting to test if the titanium versions are any better at HR and sleep tracking compared to the steel versions, such a comparison video could prove to be an unexpected hit :)
Hi! Could for sure be interesting, but my budget is limited unfortunately ;-)
@@TheQuantifiedScientistSince you mentioned weight of these watches, would you mind sharing your wrist circumference?
Thanks for looking at the new watch sensor in this video!
Please test the Garmin HRM Pro Plus strap next!
I would especially love to see a comparison to the Polar H10 reference!
Can't believe there's been no firmware update on the strap since it was released.
I'll see what I can do! ;)
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Great video and data analysis! I think that we have to compare Epix Pro Gen 2 and Fenix 7 Pro with Fenix 7 or Epix 2, not with Forerunner 965. Lighter watches have always better results comparing to havier ones (FR 965 vs. F 7) . New gen Epix and Fenix are slightly better than FR 965, I would expect that FR 975? with a new sensor will be even better than new gen Epix and Fenix, even though not as accurate as Apple watch.
Thank you for this rewiew! I can't wait for firmware updates that hopefully will increase accuracy of the new sensor and maybe I will buy Fénix 8 when it gets released. One word of advice that I would try - try nylon straps on the watches as it decreases weight and you can adjust it better for tighter fit, or at least for me it works much better.
Also if you are still up for help from community, I can do some testing, we could even meet and discuss it as I am just an hour from your place.
Oh wow! I just noticed the shout out at the end of the video. You are too kind!!!
I really tried hard to find a significant difference while swimming, biking and running with the new HR sensor but it was tricky to compare the Elevate 4.0 to the 5.0. The way you've compared this by activity type is the correct way to do it. I think that's a hard concept for people to figure out. Some activity types are harder than others for optical HR sensors. We're also both similar in skin tone. I'd love to see more data on a larger population with different skin tones.
Amazing video as always Rob!!!
Thanks so much Matt! This is really appreciated :-)
Thank you for the great reviews! Do you plan to make one for Garmin Venu 3? I wonder if they improved the sleep tracking since they included a lot of related functions.
Any plans to evaluate accuracy of the HRV measurements on the Garmin devices?
Have you considered comparing the heart rate accuracy when wearing the watch inwards or “upside down” so it reads the inside of your wrist? I sometimes wear my watch this way to see my stats better while cycling outdoors.
Hi! This has indeed been suggested before. I have been a bit hesitant because this is not the manufacturers recommended way of wearing it. But, indeed something to consider. THanks!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist
a person's individual wrist size and shape
a person's individual wrist size and shape
a person's individual wrist size and shape
a person's individual wrist size and shape
a person's individual wrist size and shape
👍👍👍👍
that mean you can use another person when you test
Whoop 4.0, wear it on the upper arm (bicep)
and try use Garmin or any watch , on the upper arm
just for one day please and make this video
I've yet to find an optical/wrist based HRM that is accurate on weight training, cycling or indoor rowing - this is a useful video that backs up my belief that this technology, however it is refined, is only useful for activities that don't heavily involve the use of the arms. Cheaper and more sensible to buy a slightly lower end watch (Instinct 2, or 2X) and a chest strap for cover of HR when cycling or weight trainng (assuming you care about HR accuracy). Good video, thank you!
wrist HW will never be accurate if you involve your arms . Its simply because you make constant pictures of your blood vessels filling and with arm involvement the tissue compression leads to false readings.So if thats important to you wear a chest strap that will never change.
People hype up the apple watch but thats mostly apples marketing power. With arm involvement its just the same up to 20% of and by that useless. But try to tell that to an apple fanboy.
Thank you for the comprehensive and informative tesing and report of results of the new HR configurartion and HR output versus the Polar reference device. Exactly what we should all be thinking about as almost all fitness metrics for these watches are based upon HR, it is important the the HR measurement is accurate. I especially like seeing the data as you formatted it with R^2 values calculated and shown. I subscribed. Thank you!
I find your quantitative approach very convincing to make a decision about the quality of a product. Thank you!
The reason I gave away my Epix gen 2 was because the heart rate sensor in rest mode was not accurate. I discovered that the sensor in rest mode decreased the frequency of heartbeat reading (the LED turned on much less often than in the mode during activities) thus reporting values that were always different from reality with enormous delays. This implied that all of the stats for the entire day were off. Now, is the PRO version with the new sensor better?
pro version is still shit
I'm glad you brought that up because it has been mentioned by a few reviews, i called Garmin and they said that they didn't know about that when you put the Fenix 7 pro into a tracking sports mode the heart rate sensor applies more LED light for a better reading, and only two engaged when just in normal mode without an activity, i find this very sneaky of Garmin not to mention this, not cool at all.
It have that exact same issue, it’s to safe battery. I have the Garmin epix pro, and tried it on my daughter who have a heart condition (POTS) where heart rate rapidly increases when standing up. Apple can easily detects this. And the Garmin can’t detect these sudden high heart rates. Only in activity mode than all leds go on. So for her it’s useless I have my epix for sale and wear the Apple Watch .
Strange results. 'fit gear hunter' tested 20 crossfit workouts and got a correlation value of 0.96 which is pretty impressive for crossfit. All reviews so far except for yours feel a big difference putting it right up there next to Apple.
But, How are you getting so great results with all apple watches? My Ultra is so delayed compared to a H10 and even a Forerunner 945lte. I hear this is a common problem with Apple watches
I follow him for a long time, and I have become extremely suspicious about the results. There might be some methodology problem and they way he present the data also makes a big deals out of things that are irrelevant. I think he miss the forest for the trees and even though the apple watch perform very well in his benchmarks it doesn't necessarily represent the average real world behavior.
I have apple watches since gen 3 and I think there is some cheating going on in the newer software...
This results are spot on my experience with the Ultra and The epix 2. Only use Apple Watch for sports and Garmin for maps, that's the only thing they're good at.
@@Miguel-cq1ms Your point is invalid since this is not epix 2. This test is based on the epix 2 pro and Fenix 7 Pro with a brand new hr sensor. I agree the elevate 4 was horrible - i question his method since many other reviewers get correlation values above 0.95+ putting it right up there next to apples accuracy on heart rate.
@@mortenvinther8940 I’m comparing the results with the ultra and the previous one in my own experience, without any tests. The problem with this sensors it the tame it takes to react to a sudden HR elevation, Garmin takes a long time, Apple is way more responsive.The new sensor seems to be almost the same. This reviewer is spot on. Not sure about others.
@@mortenvinther8940how many of these other reviewers use and shows detailed methodology?
Interesting that the Venu 2 did well in your test, and it more closely resembles the Apple watches. Could size and weight be a factor? Also it would be good to repeat tests with someone with a bigger wrist.
Another thing except for accuracy is whether new sensor bring also other data like ECG, skin temperature etc. and, if so, when. And would these new data be reliable and accurate and usable in Garmin s ecosystem?
Thank you, I was waiting for your test with the decision if it's worth buying!
The key is consistency in measurement for the individual regardless of accuracy - no need to worry about accuracy across different people, skin colours, hair etc - the key is to ensure the watch is tightly seated on the wrist and not on the bone of the wrist etc
Thanks a lot for the very detailed review! Amazing work as usual and congrats for talking nice about other TH-cam channels! 😃
Thanks for a detailed review! Waiting for your test of huawei watch 4 series. I picked gt 3 pro after your tests of heart rate (I use oura for sleep tracking, and watches for activity), so I'm really curious, if they managed to improve it even further.
For what it’s worth I find the band makes a huge difference. When I used the standard silicon band that came on the Fenix the HR was abysmal. Switching to a cheap nylon band brought it more in line with my Apple Watch
So Huawei develops better heart sensors than Garmin !? why don't other youtubers dare to show it? I am (was) considering a fenix 7 pro and given the price I would have expected Garmin to be on top. Thumbs up for your vid.
Huawei is good, but theyre shit at sleep stages
Bought a few Huawei watches
Excellent heart rate and Build quality but the difference in functionality between a 30 dollar Huawei and a 3000 Huawei is minimal.
I've had an older instinct, and a Fenix 6 I used 24-7 and for cycling. Neither of these watches could accurately track my HR over about 120 by the wrist. Totally useless for workouts. I always used an external HR strap. Recently I went to a garmin head unit for cycling, sold the watch, and I'm using Whoop for daily health metrics tracking. The whoop band is totally accurate at the wrist for HR. I would totally go back to a Garmin watch if it didn't lose my HR after 120bpm.
What about accurate HRV. Apple takes 4 or 5 readings Ina 24 hour period. Epix Pro takes over 30 readings daily.
It would be nice to know how tight you have the watch around your wrist, since this is a major factor in its accuracy, however it's pretty difficult to maintain the same level tension in the wrist band between tests
Garmin really need to sort their sleep tracking out; its really my only complaint.... thanks very much for this, definitely not upgrading from my Venu 2 Plus now!
I thought the sleep tracking result was great except if you are tracking rem. Getting 93% on deep sleep and 91% on awake are very good results and better than the Apple watch which is leading the combined charts, probably due to better rem detection. I care more about tracking awake and deep sleep so this is great news.
With wrist HR I am always quite sceptical but if a new sensor is released its quite normal that the algorithm has to be perfected. With f.e. Suunto Spartan Whr it took about 6 months and several updates were they improved the hr accuracy signifficant .
I would do annother test with tze f7pro in 6 months.
Problem with Garmin is just that they have too many models and tze speed with which they adress issues is because if that often very slow or non-existent
All this heart rate and GPS testing is all very interesting, I use an Huawei watch fit 2 so feel quite chuffed at my budget choice, nevertheless it all resolves down, for me at least, to 1. my best time over a set running course, and 2. my vo2 max.
Is there any way you could start giving us your vo2 max using the devices compared to the cooper calculation say, I doubt it would require a near death experience each time, we would be seeing a relative accuracy between the cooper calculation and cumulative figures as you test each watch, the fact it likely underestimates your claimed vo2 max of 58 wouldn't matter I don't think ?
Great video, so methodological.
I have had my Fenix 7X Solar for a few weeks.
Disappointed with the heart rate a lot.... during interval runs and fast Park Runs it misses a lot.
I paid 800EUR for my watch.
Would I buy again!
Don't think so.
GPS tracking is not any better than on my 10 years old Forerunner 920X !!!!!
Same for me, I returned it after a couple of weeks of testing: Apple Watch was always spot on with HR accuracy during sprinting while Fenix 7x solar was off with about 30-40 heart beats less.
Very interesting data. The thanks for sharing. While I don't know the algorithms behind raw data processing in the device, I imagine algorithms struggles with near factors two between fast changes in HR to keep locked on frequency tracking. There are physical models behind the very noisy raw data and generated tracked data which are filters using previous data...
22:50 When is the PSG results coming? Want to see how Garmin Fenix 7 does with PSG!
Thanks Rob.
Seems I’ll not be moving onto Garmins anytime soon. Was really hoping i could now ditch the Ultra. They *really* need to invest heavily in their algorithm because it seems that’s what’s letting them down when it comes to data accuracy. Great video.
I wouldn't take these tests seriously. Apple is known for releasing hardware with well-calibrated software. Watches that are more compatible with Android systems will achieve accuracy a little later. My Garmin Venue 2 plus only started reading sleep time accurately 8 months after the watch was released. Venu 2 and Venu2 plus are practically the same watches, but in the test they are so different in accuracy. The reason must be a software update.
@@rapator9270 I tend to differ on that one. I take a product for what it is now & not the promise of what it can be/do in the future.
Personally, I would not dare to buy any Chinese products, because they become worse after a year, since technology is usually bought for 2 years in the Chinese market. Garmin, Polar expected to reach Apple level more or less 6 months after release.
Not sure if this has already been answered. But did you see any differences between the nightly HRV between the 2 sensors? I use a chest strap for workouts anyway so accurate heart rate during sleep and rest is my main use for the heart rate monitor
Nice detailed review. One thing I would like reviewers to test is wristed-based stroke rate on watches which list it for indoor rowers lacking bluetooth (many of us have simple rowers with no bluetooth)...indoor rowing is gaining popularity and is fun.
Are you using a Concept 2 erg? With PM4 or MP5 screen? You can connect the watch via ANT+ to it and then get all Data such as Watts, stroke rate, split...
@@konstantinkluge96 WaterRower ... just added bluetooth module to it which gives some info.
@@torinsall Great, glad it works like that.
On garmin are you recording HR with "smart mode" or "every second" ? could be interesting to find out if that make any difference.
during exercise mode it shouldn't matter what that's set to, it should be doing "every second" during active exercise
Would love to see a video on the new WiThings scales they just release.
After many years, I have given up on using Garmin to track my sleep, HRV etc and now only use Whoop for night time sleeping to track these metrics. I've spent thousands on Garmin watches and now only use them for fitness & workout tracking only. Oh well, we live and learn.
Thank you. A good video and comparisons. An accurate heart beat function is fundamentally important both for sport activities and health. Have you ever considered whether the difference between the various watches and straps and their apps is related to how frequently the watch measures a heart beat and then how frequently this is written to the watches display and graphics. I understand all the watches and straps particularly by manufacturer for these two items are different. If someone has a max heart beat in excess of 180 bpm then the watch/strap has to be able to measure at least 4 times per second. If the measurement then is only written to the displaying graph every 6 seconds (I think that’s what Garmin Contact app displays) then for short high intensity sprint activities in particular the accuracy will always be poor and generally will not present an accuracy representation. The Apple Watch’s general non activity measurement display can be very poor for this reason when you look at the ‘Show All Data’. This might explain some of the variations between the watches.
Thanks for the video, the result is sobering again
I would really suggest if you can repeat the Venu2 Plus test please. Venu 2 seems doing well not sure why not the Plus version. Both have the same sensors and almost same hardware,
Should compare with other stuff. I have a Whoop 4.0 band now that seems to be super accurate where Garmin Fenix 6 required HR strap to read my HR correctly over 120. Wrist based was useless over 120 -- so basically any workout.
Please can you review some polar watches too.
It’s very sad that the Apple Watch is spanking the thing in every possible way, now including heart rate accuracy. If Apple adds body battery, stress, a few little things there’s literally no reason outside of the apocalypse with the solar to buy a Garmin anymore. Already, I have to wear my Fenix 7X and my Apple Watch Ultra to get the functionality I need for work and working out.
I cracked up when the Garmin ad came up while watching this.
Disappointed he didn't see the "Garmin HR Crash Effect" that so many of us experience while working out in a variety of ways, where the watch basically gives up and drops around 80 BPM and stays there until you exit out of the workout. The Garmin forums are filled with people complaining about this issue. Essentially, if you need HR accuracy, get an Apple Watch and deal with their abysmal battery technology. If you need accurate GPS and battery life get a Garmin. Or just get a cheap ass Casio and stop worrying about all that crap! I wish I could do that, maybe some day...
Did you get a chance to review fourth frontier x2 ,which is apparently world's first 24 hour heartrate and ecg monitor in the world???
Great video by the way
So, king of heartrate and sleep stage tracking, is still Apple watches! 😉
Rob, are you planning on testing the pixelwatch 2 in a near future? 🙂
I would love a Android based alternative, as I'm not really a fan of being forced to use a iphone! 😊
...as a sleep tracker probably not: with the much lower battery life, one will likely track much less nights than with the Garmins... Also Apple dindt have all stages in their algorythm... Heartrate accuracy is important for sleep-tracking but accelerometer measurements and the software even more so... Now if it has to be something with Android-Wear then look at the TicWatch: I think it s better to have complete data with a good accuracy than data with excellent accuracy but systematic gaps!
@@rdnax92 We each probably have different uses and thus preferences, which will dictate what is most important to us! 😉
Since I'm very interested in monitoring sleep, as accurately as technically possible and also have a interest in cardiovascular health, those two parameters then becomes very important to people like me! 😉
And accuracy of sleep stage detection, for the Apple watches, already has also been validated by others using other equipment that monitors things like breath.
I just would like an alternativ, that doesn't forces me to use iphone, as this means I would only use it to connect to my Apple watch....which seems a bit excessive on cost, and is also not very practical either, having to service multiple mobile phones. But if nobody can match Apple(not even Google), I guess this becomes the only option.
@@danieljrgensen133 You should try around though... Fitbit was able to track spontaneous naps during the day with accurate stages, as well... whereas thats difficult with a Garmin... the last one, on the other side, offers beathrates and SPO2 during sleep (not necessarily worse than Apple)... And finally practicality and integration to your routine: You may not need an iPhone if you get the LTE-version of Apple... But will you charge it every (second) day? and will it be as accurate on you as well?
@@rdnax92 I have borrowed a friends Apple watch SE(2022) and it lasted me approx 3,5 days(45mm)....if I activated the battery saving feature. But just as important, it was quick at charging up(putting it on the charger before showering, seemed to do the trick for me). But yes, I obviously would like to have something like on a Garmin, like 14 days.
But it will eventually come, as batteries get better capacities and processers gets better at conserving power.
Which leaves me with the final wish, of having an OS independent tracking device! 😉
@@danieljrgensen133 I'm a bit sceptical with power saving: having 24/7 an expensive wearable, with tons of features and functions, unused seems.... Unusual in the long run... But that's not an issue if you're okay with charging... For essential improvements you'll probably have to wait couple of years... But I'm pretty sure you can avoid owning an iPhone with an LTE version and you probably can even integrate it in your existing mobile contact...
Thanks for your great videos. Which device would you recommend to check the HRV?
We need updates of the new huawei watches and old ones with the new software updates!
Hoping the Venu 3 test is coming soon 🙏 😁
That's what I'm waiting on, but none of my fave tech TH-camrs are covering it.
Thank you so much for reviewing watches !
Can't wait for the Samsung watch 6 review
My friend thanks for this informative content. Though I would love to see you check the accuracy of calories expenditure on smart watches like the apple watch.
Even if the HR sensor was 99% accurate, I can't see it being worth $800 and $1000. Maybe I'm just not the target market, but none of this screams to be worth that much of a premium over other Garmin devices.
Heck, for that much, it better come with a rock solid multi-year warranty because you're paying for it by a multiple.
50$ Huawei Watches have better HR accuracy.
Really unfortunate that they suck for sleep tracking though.
@@wtf17727 not true.
Dear Rob, good night. My name is Kise, from Rio de Janeiro City, Brazil. Have you evaluated the accuracy of the Garmin Fenix 07 PRO as a blood pressure monitor? If so, could you share your first impressions? I started practicing physical exercises again to control hypertension, so I'm looking for a device that allows me to monitor blood pressure changes throughout the day. Best regards, Kise.
Great video, thank you! Do you know where the Fenix 6 Pro falls on this spectrum?
Fenix 6 is more accurate than my new Fenix 7 pro in my opinion. Average heart rate reading with the Fenix 7 pro is really inaccurate. It seems to struggle to get an accurate reading warming up but then an hour into the run seems to be similar to the Fenix 6 in accuracy.
I’m on the border of getting the fenix pro but also debating on seeing if the 8 comes out this year. I think a aftermarket band would also help with the heart beat numbers.
8 isn't going to come out until 2025 most likely
@@UltimateEnd0wrong
@@oppenheimer11 Idk, I just guessed 5 months ago
Are these more recent sensors good enough for rowing or is it still the case that a chest strap must be relied on instead?
Thank You for the video. Hope this helps with the algorithm.
Great review what it will interesting is to do a comparison of the 2 different sensors an epix 2 vs epix 2 pro.
No. They have the exact same sensors as the watches in this video.
When is the mi band 8 and hawei band 8 review is gonna be relase?
Hello Rob, thanks for this great video. What were the sizes of the watches you tested?
Apparently they are neither the x nor the s variant. Aka the middle size.
Amazing work. Some of your data and graph are too confusing. Please explain carefully.
I bet as a result of your tests, Garmin decided to release a new sensor and close to Apple-Huawei's products.
Apple has been ahead for more than a couple of years. This was Garmin response...
Interesting, your results are way different than results of many other people who compared the senzors. Also - its weird that Apple is ranked so high in your results. I think you have some methodology flaw.
I know that the weight of the watch is an important factor when it comes to heart rate accuracy, but can you also measure the accuracy of the Garmin Forerunner 255s or 265s models?
Sample size of one is the big fault here.. skin colour, how much you sweat, products on arm... I could sway results easily...How tight is the strap... Apple almost perfect Mmmmm others have done this test and get entirely different results... End of the day, how good does it work for you.
I agree, it’s suspect.
Plus he seems to always use different straps with Apple than the average stock silicone ones of most other makers.
Hey Rob, why have you never tested sport watch from Suunto?
Polar vantage v2 - please, do a review 🙏🙏🙏
I was waiting for this one. Thank you, very detailed and scientific as always.
I guess I'm keeping my Apple Watch Series 7 for now.
same here really wanted a garmin 965 this go round but ill stick with my Ultra for now
apple os 10 just hooked you up !! if you have not seen go check out some videos
Thanks for watching!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist you are my go to for smart and sport watches!
Hi Bob my name is Deepak and I am a student, dose not have that much budget, could you please recommend low budget smart watch which can able to accurate day to day monitor my health. Please, love from India
Garmin epix heart rate is good enough that im glad i saved 300 dollars and didnt order the new one although im sure uts fantastic
Does the sensors matters if you use the HRM chest band ?
Sorry for my language but your “reviews/tests” are f* brilliant.
Thanks so much 😊
Apple Watches leverage an excellent sensor on the ML hardware capabilities for their heart rate measurements which results in more realistic readings. Garmin seems to try a more brute force approach relaying mostly on its sensor. Too bad Apple doesn’t know what to do in terms of training with all the data it collects.
Thanks Rob!
Please do huawei band 8 ! 🤗🤗
seconded. if it can provide GT 3 Pro or Fit 2 levels of HR accuracy for only $60 it could be an awesome entry-level or even mid-level watch
@@Mannex17 I only care about fitness workout accuracy , anything else is bonus, for now I got a fit 2 as it is in my budged, but if this band 8 gets close to it... will be huge. Especially that now they have like an offer 90euros for 2 of them, crazy 😁😁
Can u review huawei gt3 SE? Is the device sensor as good as huawei gt3 n gt3 pro? As i cant afford apple watch or garmin watch, i opt for huawei gt3 that has the 2nd best hr tracker after apple watch
I briefly owned a GT 3 SE and the heart tracking on it wasn't nearly as good as the Huawei Fit 2 (which is on par with the GT3 Pro)
It would be nice if you could test the cheap Coros watch "Kiprun GPS 500" in collab with Decathlon! 😁
Please test some g shock watches :) Great job as always.
So, full review when? ;) Great vid though!
Take a shot every time he says “how ever”. RIP your recovery score
However, you will have a fun night😊
That was great! Thank you!👍
Hi can you review the new Suunto Vertical?
try coros pleaseee, especially the cheapest one Coros Pace 2 🥺🥺
@The Quantified Scientist, can you check the garmin mk3i heart rate accuracy. Pleaseeeeeeeee
do you have any plan on testing huawei band 8?
Me friend, which is better to monitor sleep: huawei gt 3 pro or galaxy whach 5?
I'm guessing the galaxy. huawei watches all seem to stink at sleep tracking.
If you want a watch that is pretty good at both heart and sleep tracking, I'd go with the Google Pixel Watch
The problem with my Garmin is that it registers lower heart rate sensing.
please do a review of the garmin venu sq 2
funny how my apple watch is exactly the same as my garmin and amazfit , differs for each person . (sleep cycle) and other movements. like walking and calories . my apple calculated just as similar to my garmin and other fitbit . so these tests this guy does is an isolated in ident . so many factors come into play . but my Garmin 100 percent tracks my deep sleep on point and my rem. i can tell . same thing as an apple.
What Garmin watch are you using?
Disappointing results. Garmin have a bad sleep tracking in general can't even track naps(neither apply to the metrics of recovery) and you you need to manually input your sleep schedule, none other watch require this.
People would say you are biased towards the Apple but neither DC Rainmaker, Desfit, Chase the Summit, etc mention the most of the negatives of the Garmin watches.
wait, what? the garmins can't even automatically detect when you go to sleep and when you wake up? oof.
how did you export the data?
Why cant Garmin fix their heart rate sensors....How cann apple and huawei be so far ahead?
I love the Garmin brand but I need a better heart rate sensor. Until then I won't buy.
Oh btw, can you please rerun the heart rate sensor test of Garmin Venu, I'm surprised it keeps beating all the watches.
Please do review on instinct 2x
Please test the new garmin venu 3
Great video thank you