If Stan created all these characters at such a steady pace,then why did that pretty much stop when Jack left marvel??Yet Jack continued to pump out new ideas and characters after he went to DC,back to Marvel and again after he left .I give Stan credit for the gift of gab and his scripting,but I don’t believe for a minute that all these characters and ideas sprang from his mind alone,like Athena from Zeus.
Stan Lee was a parasite, taking credit for creating the entire Marvel Universe.. Stan wanted to steal...take credit for Captain America. I wonder if Captains shield made of adamantium, which would predate Wolverine. Im betting Stan takes credit for inventing (given his lack of science..) Adamantium.. "i wanted something new, never seen before...this half animal, half beast, half man who smoked cigars, wears tight-ass blue jeans & sports cowboy boots.. he also has claws, and because of a top secret military experiment his entire skeleton is covered with... this tin foil stuff that is indestructible.. so i called him Indestructible Claw Man . Oh, later on, busy stealing the intellectual property of Jack Kirby, i decided to call the strongest most indestructible known metal in my Marvel Universe, Adamantium! Anyways, where were we, oh yes, The Heap.. I mean Hulk
Jack Kirby was so much more than simply "work-for-hire". He should've had the status and security as art director and/or editor at Marvel, in my opinion.
These deposition videos are phenomenally interesting. Such a unique look into the crazy world of comics! I have been home for the past week with Covid, trying to feel better, and your videos have been a constant companion. I really appreciate all that you do.
Love the consistent, deep, interesting content, guys. It’s a side of comics that I literally can’t get anywhere else that I’m aware of. Keep up the killer work.
That story behind the creation of Spider-Man is certainly sprinkled with a lot of bullshit. It's amazing that Stan told it for so many years that at some point he began to believe it himself and under oath presented it as a fact. In 1962 Marvel output was still limited by their distributor. Amazing Fantasy monthly was canceled because at that time Goodman wanted to bring back canceled Two-Gun Kid as a bi-monthly and to turn Fantastic Four from bi-monthly to monthly. When Goodman made the decision to cancel that series, Amazing Fantasy #15 was most likely already at the printer. There is no indication in that issues that it was supposed to be the last one. Quite the opposite. In the editorial piece in AF #15 Stan told the readers about the plan to drop non-Spidey back-ups in future issues if readers would have been ok with that. At the time of cancelation Stan and Steve were almost done with the following issue and it eventually saw the light as the opening story in The Amazing Spider-Man #1 and back-up features in Tales of Suspense #39 (both cover dated March 1963). Job numbers visible on the splash pages of those stories indicate that they were done way back in 1962. Amazing Spider-Man #1 could not be the result of fantastic sales of AF #15 because Marvel would not have final sales figures so soon. More likely factor would be enthusiastic fanmail. Sales figure of AF #15 probably contributed to turning ASM from bi-monthly to monthly with issue #5.
You guys are really doing an amazingly great service to the understanding of comic book history. Keep up the tremendous work, I can’t wait to hear what’s next.
Thank you for this! I love hearing the behind the scenes. I'm odd because I'm a fan of all of them. Stan, Jack, Steve, and I wish more people talked about the unsung hero Don Heck. Some of the little things in this video stick out. Stan : "You wanna hear that story? Ok, I hope I'm not boring you." Even when giving a deposition, Stan is first and foremost concerned about if he's being entertaining enough for his audience!
So never mind the fact that this liar stole credit he didn't deserve, you take that comment and spin into into some benevolent dribble about fans and not because he was on the hot seat and this would expose him. You sir are willfully brainwashed
You guys are on fire with great content! Over the last month I've been able to get a few friends who were 'Lapsed' comic fans to start following your channel and they've actually started reading them again. Thank you Kayfabe Kings!
There is an interesting line of inquiry about whether Kirby ever shopped ideas around or created work on spec. If Dave Cockrum had sued for ownership of the X-men characters he co-created would his case have been strengthened by the fact that many of the designs were created pre X-men? The costume designs for Storm, Nightcrawler, Phoenix, and Colossus were originally created for the legion of superheroes if memory serves.
According to Joe Sinnot, Kirby had been shopping around the idea of Sgt. Rock around 1958, and there's reason to think that Kirby/Simon had shopped around the proto-Spider-Man at the same time. In general, the big burst of Marvel characters from 1961-1963 look like they came from Kirby's late 1950s idea hoard.
Thanks again for giving me something to look forward to on Monday mornings, I love this segment. I'm still waiting for Toddy Mac's deposition (Ed should be Todd on that one), but this one probably was the most juicy of the Stan series so far, great stuff and very interesting. Since he's the company man and treading the company line sitting in court, maybe he was being more careful with the embellishment of past history he was prone to? The most glaring one that came up here was one in which Jack mostly wasn't involved - Spider-Man, but I don't know about the rest since I'm far from a Marvel expert. Great content guys, Make Mine Kayfabe, Kaycelsior! or whatever would be appropriate here.
From what I can tell the Hulk’s origin is cribbed from the plot of the 1957 film The Amazing Colossal Man. The version presented in Hulk #1 is a reworked, and frankly superior, plot of a B movie that I’m sure they thought no one would remember. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Colossal_Man
I’ve always found Stan’s ‘discovery’ of the script/synopsis for Fantastic Four #1 in a drawer many decades later to be suspiciously convenient. Not saying outright that it’s a fraud, it could very well be genuine, but…. Anyhow, it’s interesting to compare Stan’s recollections of the origins of these characters with Kirby’s, like Kirby saying his inspiration for the Hulk was watching a woman panic because she thought her child was trapped under a car and lifted it with one arm while retrieving the child with the other. Jack also told a story where he saw one of his friend’s mothers jump off a building and swore that he would do whatever it took to lift his family out of poverty. Anyways, can’t wait for the next installment, this is fascinating stuff!!
What is absolutely amazing is how Stan gives less than a paragraph worth of explanation & apparently he hot them all right the very first time.. Little to no issues with anything.. How many artist claim that, the process of creating a character, their alter ego, the costume design etc.. The fact that Marvel/Disney is losing badly in court, artist are getting back their rights/ownership of their Intellectual Property. It seems Stan Lee made himself the king while running Marvel and took alot of illegal liberties against artist, he bullied & threatened them all time smiling
Stan of course made no mention of the alchemical symbolism evident in the FF during his recollections about the creation of the Fantastic Four. Stan calls Ben Grimm a monster or monstrous but he's obviously EARTHy and rocklike, Johnny bursts into FIRE, Sue vanishes into thin AIR, and Reeds body becomes fluidlike like WATER. These are the four elements of a quaternity, and among the FF's early foes was a dude named "The Alchemist". Maybe Kirby never clued Stan in on the symbolism or maybe Mr. Lee thought that kind of thing was too esoteric for Mainstream Marvelites.
This was super entertaining to listen to, thanks for putting it together! Though I have conflicted feelings about Stan, it is pretty incredible the vast portfolio he contributed to.
Another fun and interesting video. It would be cool if you live streamed one of these depositions so viewers could react these statements in real time.
Amazing Fantasy 15 story I think is true. The lies were what Stan wrote in the back of the comic. Stan wrote asking for fans' comments about Spider-Man, and talked about how he might be featured in future issues of Amazing Fantasy....Stan knew the comic was being canceled... Stan was priming the fans so that Stan could show Goodman that Spider-Man would be successful.
My reply to some comments here against Stan Lee. I'm a cartoonist myself so my bias is with Jack Kirby & Steve Ditko, but I think it would be unfair to treat Stan Lee like he's some kind of Bob Kane. Despite his faults, Stan is an actual creative and has real significant contributions to the comic artform.
What kind of nonsense is that??? What creative thing has Stan created or written prior to Kirby, Ditko, etc before and after them?? The dude is a fraud but you guys just cannot accept that Stan is the absolute worst
I think people want to rewrite history by painting aLee as a credit hog. His contributions to the marvel characters were definitely invaluable and he was always quick to credit the artists as co creators. Kirby and Ditko deserve all the money they should get as co creators of these characters, but denigrating Lee is not the way to do it.
@@felipeortizjr.304 he can't take credit for the art, he can't draw lol, When the artists do the writing too and get credited for the art only that's a credit hogging, when you take credit for ideas you didnt come up with
If Stan created all these characters at such a steady pace,then why did that pretty much stop when Jack left marvel??Yet Jack continued to pump out new ideas and characters after he went to DC,back to Marvel and again after he left .I give Stan credit for the gift of gab and his scripting,but I don’t believe for a minute that all these characters and ideas sprang from his mind alone,like Athena from Zeus.
EXACTLY! Not a SINGLE notable creation after Kirby and Ditko. Funny isn't it?! They can make any excuse they want but the truth is the truth.
@@smelisi Telling Romita in a note "Next Issue, Rhino" is not creating a character
Kirby never created another popular character like what he created at Marvel and neither did Ditko after he left Marvel. It takes two to tango.
@@skypatrol716New Gods is under appreciated in my opinion
Stan Lee was a parasite, taking credit for creating the entire Marvel Universe.. Stan wanted to steal...take credit for Captain America. I wonder if Captains shield made of adamantium, which would predate Wolverine. Im betting Stan takes credit for inventing (given his lack of science..) Adamantium.. "i wanted something new, never seen before...this half animal, half beast, half man who smoked cigars, wears tight-ass blue jeans & sports cowboy boots.. he also has claws, and because of a top secret military experiment his entire skeleton is covered with... this tin foil stuff that is indestructible.. so i called him Indestructible Claw Man . Oh, later on, busy stealing the intellectual property of Jack Kirby, i decided to call the strongest most indestructible known metal in my Marvel Universe, Adamantium! Anyways, where were we, oh yes, The Heap.. I mean Hulk
Jack Kirby was so much more than simply "work-for-hire". He should've had the status and security as art director and/or editor at Marvel, in my opinion.
He was offered the job. He didn't want it.
there was less job security as an art director than there was as a freelancer
kirby didnt want to be responsible for other people's work
These deposition videos are phenomenally interesting. Such a unique look into the crazy world of comics! I have been home for the past week with Covid, trying to feel better, and your videos have been a constant companion. I really appreciate all that you do.
Love the consistent, deep, interesting content, guys. It’s a side of comics that I literally can’t get anywhere else that I’m aware of. Keep up the killer work.
Don't stop these. Keep them coming until you have no more material. Fascinating and historic.
"I hope I'm not boring you all"
Classic Stan
That story behind the creation of Spider-Man is certainly sprinkled with a lot of bullshit. It's amazing that Stan told it for so many years that at some point he began to believe it himself and under oath presented it as a fact. In 1962 Marvel output was still limited by their distributor. Amazing Fantasy monthly was canceled because at that time Goodman wanted to bring back canceled Two-Gun Kid as a bi-monthly and to turn Fantastic Four from bi-monthly to monthly. When Goodman made the decision to cancel that series, Amazing Fantasy #15 was most likely already at the printer. There is no indication in that issues that it was supposed to be the last one. Quite the opposite. In the editorial piece in AF #15 Stan told the readers about the plan to drop non-Spidey back-ups in future issues if readers would have been ok with that. At the time of cancelation Stan and Steve were almost done with the following issue and it eventually saw the light as the opening story in The Amazing Spider-Man #1 and back-up features in Tales of Suspense #39 (both cover dated March 1963). Job numbers visible on the splash pages of those stories indicate that they were done way back in 1962. Amazing Spider-Man #1 could not be the result of fantastic sales of AF #15 because Marvel would not have final sales figures so soon. More likely factor would be enthusiastic fanmail. Sales figure of AF #15 probably contributed to turning ASM from bi-monthly to monthly with issue #5.
I’m on Kirby’s side on this subject.
You guys are really doing an amazingly great service to the understanding of comic book history. Keep up the tremendous work, I can’t wait to hear what’s next.
Thank you for this! I love hearing the behind the scenes. I'm odd because I'm a fan of all of them. Stan, Jack, Steve, and I wish more people talked about the unsung hero Don Heck.
Some of the little things in this video stick out.
Stan :
"You wanna hear that story? Ok, I hope I'm not boring you."
Even when giving a deposition, Stan is first and foremost concerned about if he's being entertaining enough for his audience!
Huge Don Heck fan here! Wish there was more out there about him.
So never mind the fact that this liar stole credit he didn't deserve, you take that comment and spin into into some benevolent dribble about fans and not because he was on the hot seat and this would expose him. You sir are willfully brainwashed
You guys are on fire with great content! Over the last month I've been able to get a few friends who were 'Lapsed' comic fans to start following your channel and they've actually started reading them again.
Thank you Kayfabe Kings!
There is an interesting line of inquiry about whether Kirby ever shopped ideas around or created work on spec. If Dave Cockrum had sued for ownership of the X-men characters he co-created would his case have been strengthened by the fact that many of the designs were created pre X-men? The costume designs for Storm, Nightcrawler, Phoenix, and Colossus were originally created for the legion of superheroes if memory serves.
According to Joe Sinnot, Kirby had been shopping around the idea of Sgt. Rock around 1958, and there's reason to think that Kirby/Simon had shopped around the proto-Spider-Man at the same time. In general, the big burst of Marvel characters from 1961-1963 look like they came from Kirby's late 1950s idea hoard.
Stan Lee always claimed that had bad memory.
Now he expects us to believe all his statements and bs ?
I will NEVER get tired of hearing the story behind Spider-Man!
Still loving these episodes!
Thanks again for giving me something to look forward to on Monday mornings, I love this segment. I'm still waiting for Toddy Mac's deposition (Ed should be Todd on that one), but this one probably was the most juicy of the Stan series so far, great stuff and very interesting. Since he's the company man and treading the company line sitting in court, maybe he was being more careful with the embellishment of past history he was prone to? The most glaring one that came up here was one in which Jack mostly wasn't involved - Spider-Man, but I don't know about the rest since I'm far from a Marvel expert. Great content guys, Make Mine Kayfabe, Kaycelsior! or whatever would be appropriate here.
Lawyer: How'd you come up with Ant Man?
Stan: Trying to think about something that hadn't been done before
The Atom: ... am I a joke to you?
These descriptions are spot on what Stan said in the Kevin Smith interview
Not sure how far apart they are
From what I can tell the Hulk’s origin is cribbed from the plot of the 1957 film The Amazing Colossal Man. The version presented in Hulk #1 is a reworked, and frankly superior, plot of a B movie that I’m sure they thought no one would remember. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Colossal_Man
It is. Also, the Lizard's origin is swiped from The Alligator People. I'm sure there are several more cases like that.
Good call
Third time watching this. I guess I'm a comic nerd after all. hahaha
You have hit the motherload. Absolutely loving this.
I’ve always found Stan’s ‘discovery’ of the script/synopsis for Fantastic Four #1 in a drawer many decades later to be suspiciously convenient. Not saying outright that it’s a fraud, it could very well be genuine, but…. Anyhow, it’s interesting to compare Stan’s recollections of the origins of these characters with Kirby’s, like Kirby saying his inspiration for the Hulk was watching a woman panic because she thought her child was trapped under a car and lifted it with one arm while retrieving the child with the other. Jack also told a story where he saw one of his friend’s mothers jump off a building and swore that he would do whatever it took to lift his family out of poverty. Anyways, can’t wait for the next installment, this is fascinating stuff!!
What is absolutely amazing is how Stan gives less than a paragraph worth of explanation & apparently he hot them all right the very first time.. Little to no issues with anything.. How many artist claim that, the process of creating a character, their alter ego, the costume design etc.. The fact that Marvel/Disney is losing badly in court, artist are getting back their rights/ownership of their Intellectual Property. It seems Stan Lee made himself the king while running Marvel and took alot of illegal liberties against artist, he bullied & threatened them all time smiling
Stan of course made no mention of the alchemical symbolism evident in the FF during his recollections about the creation of the Fantastic Four. Stan calls Ben Grimm a monster or monstrous but he's obviously EARTHy and rocklike, Johnny bursts into FIRE, Sue vanishes into thin AIR, and Reeds body becomes fluidlike like WATER. These are the four elements of a quaternity, and among the FF's early foes was a dude named "The Alchemist". Maybe Kirby never clued Stan in on the symbolism or maybe Mr. Lee thought that kind of thing was too esoteric for Mainstream Marvelites.
This was super entertaining to listen to, thanks for putting it together! Though I have conflicted feelings about Stan, it is pretty incredible the vast portfolio he contributed to.
I LOVE THESE!
Thank you
I'm really digging that Pumpkins cosplay mask!
Another fun and interesting video. It would be cool if you live streamed one of these depositions so viewers could react these statements in real time.
the best stan lee interview outside his being under oath, can be found in the castle of frankenstein number 12...stan mostly tells the truth
Ah shit here we go
Jim looking like he's going to plow the field after this one
It's a good look
Nuff’n but the truth!
this is GOLD!
Amazing Fantasy 15 story I think is true.
The lies were what Stan wrote in the back of the comic.
Stan wrote asking for fans' comments about Spider-Man, and talked about how he might be featured in future issues of Amazing Fantasy....Stan knew the comic was being canceled...
Stan was priming the fans so that Stan could show Goodman that Spider-Man would be successful.
Sick cap Jim
My reply to some comments here against Stan Lee. I'm a cartoonist myself so my bias is with Jack Kirby & Steve Ditko, but I think it would be unfair to treat Stan Lee like he's some kind of Bob Kane. Despite his faults, Stan is an actual creative and has real significant contributions to the comic artform.
He was worse than bob kane, Bob Kane managed to screw one person, Stan Lee screwed Kirby, Ditko and Wally wood among others
What kind of nonsense is that??? What creative thing has Stan created or written prior to Kirby, Ditko, etc before and after them?? The dude is a fraud but you guys just cannot accept that Stan is the absolute worst
I think people want to rewrite history by painting aLee as a credit hog.
His contributions to the marvel characters were definitely invaluable and he was always quick to credit the artists as co creators.
Kirby and Ditko deserve all the money they should get as co creators of these characters, but denigrating Lee is not the way to do it.
A lot of white out on those Kirby Ayers signatures true believer.
@@felipeortizjr.304 he can't take credit for the art, he can't draw lol, When the artists do the writing too and get credited for the art only that's a credit hogging, when you take credit for ideas you didnt come up with
Stan Lee, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, ants standing on the shoulders of giants.
"He can smell if a woman has been in a room."
Daredevil enters Ladies room, starts screaming from olfactory overload.
The word hulk is an old word which referred to an old ship stripped of fittings and permanently moored, especially for use as storage or as a prison.