R + L = J REACTION
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2022
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Hey Major Family... please enjoy today's reaction. Like, subscribe and hit the notification bell. Join us on Patreon for full reactions and Discord. Remember no spoilers or expectations (for the books- which Major plans to read- or the show)!
Tell Major to change the title please
@@hustlehardcampaign he changed it. thanks for your support.
In the books it's made clear that Ned always insisted that Jon be treated the same as all of the other children. It's the main reason why Catelyn hated Jon so much, she had to see him at breakfast every morning. Most Lords kept their bastards hidden away, or treated them worse than their legitimate children, Ned raised Jon as part of the family.
The only time that didn't happen was when Robert visited, Jon wasn't allowed to eat with the family then. He thinks it's because it would insult the Royal family, really its because Ned wanted to keep Jon as far away from Robert as possible.
11 months late, ned is the realest fucking motherfucker on this fucking planet. Pardon my french.
Catelyn is also just one of the worst women in fantasy history. She's a monster of a person who is truly selfish and stupid.
Everyone calls Ned an honorable fool. Yet, in the most critical moments, he always chose love over duty (lying to protect Jon, confronting Cersei to spare her children so they would not get butchered like Rhaegar's children, confessing his "crimes" to save Sansa). Maester Aemon was right; love is the death of duty.
Facts
Jon chose love once he died (love for people)
Jon chose duty over love everytime but he paid the price
Well said!
nah. stupidity leads to death. thats it
@@nitinkapoor1369 You should do what is right,as John replied to Aemon.
It doesn't matter love or duty,it's about the situation.
7:35 Jon tells Benjen in the very first episode that he wants to join the night's watch and that he doesn't care about having children or having a family. Benjen says "You might, if you knew what it meant." Now, you can interpret that as Benjen projecting his own experiences in not being able to have kids and a family, OR you can take that as him hinting at Jon's bloodline. I've always been under the impression that Benjen is the only other Stark who knew besides Ned.
It can work either way, but I feel like it's more Benjen saying "You'd feel differerently if you had a family of your own". Benjen may have been Ned's brother but I'm 100% certain that Ned never told another soul about Jon's parentage.
When Ned says "you might not have my name, but you have my blood" and the camera cuts straight to Benjin as if to say, WE'RE your uncles.
Biologically, Jon is 50% Stark and 50% Targaryen. But in mind and spirit, he is 100% Stark.
150% Stark!
For suuuure. He dons the direwolf sigil on his clothing all the way to the end. For me, that says it all.
And Dany isn’t a Targaryan at all! There’s another great-ish family w/blonde hair and purple eyes - the Daynes.
How does did she survive the fire with the dragon eggs? The witch’s magic
But how does she have such a deep Targaryan-like connection to the dragons? Uh, she raised them!
There’s even a little foreshadowing of this in the book with…Griff? I forget the fake Targaryan’s name.
I get that this is a wiicked longshot theory and there’s probably plenty of outright disqualifiers i haven’t thought of. But whatever. Somethina fk w/.
Except he is some percentage Targaryen. For carrying on the tradition of Kings and heirs taking up Aegon's dream of uniting Westoros against the threat from the north. 25% Targaryen.
This is one of the opinions that angers me the most, yes, I agree, Jon may be Targaryen but he was raised as a Stark, but people suddenly in season 7 and 8 wanted him to be king. It's a bit hypocritical how they praise the Stark part of Jon at the same time they despise the Targaryen but wanted him to be king just because of that.
It’s so amazing to me the way dead characters like ned and rhaegar still have an impact on plot and theme so long after their deaths. It’s the same with Robb a little moreso in the books. The death of a character doesn’t mean we re done learning about and from that character In this story.
Or my boy Big Bobby B!!!
Going with the R + L = J theory...The thing that really gets me about Ned is that initially whenever he tells Robert they shouldn't kill Dany because she's just a child and she's so far away, etc you think it's purely because he's doing the honorable thing. But in the context of this new possibility, watching it back you see that he's also doing it for Jon. Ned knowing Dany is Jon's Aunt, he wouldn't be able to face Jon again if he stayed silent while Robert plotted to kill his nephew's Aunt. Ned tried to protect Dany as much as he could in his discussions with Robert. Honor does play a part, but there's also that extra element of trying to protect his nephew's family too.
I've never thought about the fact that Danaerys is Eddard's sister in law-
@@thomasluke-wp8ornot sister in law. You are only in laws with the person your sibling married not their siblings or parents. Which is weird actually. So technically only raeghar was his in law family member.
The pain on Ned's face when talking about Jon's mother to him always gets me.
The books have never confirmed R+L=J because they haven't got that far yet. But most book readers had pieced it together, either on their own, or just reading fan theories on the internet.
When Maester Aemon talks about Targaryens being alone in the world and then Jon walks in.... when I rewatched GoT for the first time I noticed it and I hollered!!!! Definitely hinting along the way since day 1!!
In the book Kat extra hates Jon because of his dark hair because the Starks were known for dark hair. She felt like Jon looked more like a Stark than any of her kids. Ned also let his nuts hang a little more in the book. When Kat tried to talk shit about the Jon situation he let her know that she is never to talk about it again
Arya actually looks like a Stark too. Arya mentions thinking she was a bastard too until Kat tells her that she was there, Arya is true-born.
@@Vanillastump yeah that's just what was in Cats mind regarding Jon. She was looking for reasons to hate him
@@Vanillastump am I right in remembering they also said somewhere in the books that Arya was said to favor Lyanna? It’s been so long since I read them, I can’t remember.
@@mamatwitch3982 I think you're right. It may be in one of Ned's chapters.
@@mamatwitch3982 Arya is said to be exactly like Lyanna in how she looked & how she acted.
Most underated part of GOT is the actual fanbase, there are so many youtube channels dedicated to the universe, so many tribute vids so much stuff from the community. Hope we get close to that with house of the dragons 🙏
Not to mention that when the show was still on, there were very few spoilers. I’ve never watched a single second of TWD but I can sure as shit tell you when some motherfucker named Glenn died. GoT fans respected the game much more
FACTS
I remember a flashback scene where Lyanna was telling Ned with distaste that she knew Robert would never be a faithful husband. I’m pretty sure she loathed her betrothal.
Also just wanted to say Robert Baratheon is the most underated character. Yes we saw very little of him but damn when you realize his life arc and the whole scope of it, he really had quite the life
really, i feel like he's overrated. He's almost seen as a conqueror, and a good man, even if he is useless as a king. But really, he was a jealous, controlling, vengeful man, who murdered a whole family, basically committed genocide because he was mad about losing his girl. if it wasnt for robert, so much of the suffering that happens throughout the show could have been avoided.
@@MattMajcan Genocide? Killing a man in a fight and not punishing the deaths of 3 people is genocide?
Robert thought the woman he loved, a woman he had fooled himself into believing would also have loved him, had been kidnapped and raped by the crown prince. After this, his best friend’s father and brother were brutally slaughtered by the king, before the king called for his best friend and his owns head. I’d have been pissed aswell.
He’s a useless king because he has some major depression and PTSD. And he was a conqueror. The 3 battles of Summerhal show how skilled a commander he was
@@darthbricksempire3606 Ned is more than just a best friend to Robert aswell he’s basically a brother he chose
The show did a massive disservice by portraying Robert as this great dude who was this super honourable guy who fought a war because he loved Lyanna. His over the top Targaryen hatred is justified in the show by passing his version of Rhaegar as fact and Lyannas fate as a tragedy not because she died but because he didn’t get to “have” her. The show glossed over what happened to Rhaegars children & Elia Martell because it makes Robert look bad for celebrating the murders of a 1 & 4 year old. Robert wasn’t evil but he wasn’t a saint either
I think any one who knew Jon’s true parentage would automatically be in danger. I personally think that’s why Ned didn’t tell Kat.
and the more people you tell, the more danger everyone who knows is in.
I think Ned didn't want Catelyn to have to lie to defend his honor. He probably thought she might tell people she think can trust or out of anger, to correct the record on the 'Honorable' Eddard Stark. He wasn't willing to take that chance.
Katlynn had been engaged to Ned’s older brother; after he was killed by the Mad King Ned married Katlynn because that was his duty as the brother next in line. When Ned went off with Rob to war, I believe Ned and Katlynn had been married for only two weeks.
So Ned and Katlynn weren’t childhood lovers, she was his brother’s love. Eventually the two developed the love they had.
I read Cat wasn’t mad that Ned had a bastard because they weren’t together long. She was mad he brought him to Winterfell and raised him
This is why Jon is my favorite character. He is The Song of Ice & Fire, in my opinion! R+L=J is still just a theory to us book readers & Jon is still dead, laying in the snow 11years later... I'm a book nerd that's still excited for The Winds of Winter 🤞🏾 & continuing the story!
Great reactions, thanks for sharing.
I’m currently reading “A Dance With Dragons” again, simply because so many things changed in the show that I wanted to remember the original story before “Winds of Winter” is released. Hopefully in this decade… But I honestly don’t mind, other than being eager to read it. We all see what happens when you try to rush a masterpiece.
What’s really interesting is I noticed that after about 10 minutes of reading the novels again, the characters stopped being represented in my head as the actors, and reverted back to the original images of the characters I had formed in my head upon my first reading ♥️
@@jillthornton5512 I always picture them as the actors, just younger or uglier or more beautiful versions so they fit the book descriptions lol.
@@Gwenhwyfar7 Ramsay and Tyrion especially! They’re both way too good looking compared to the book descriptions
@@jillthornton5512 Brienne, Arya & Tyrion especially for me. Ramsey I pictured totally different, with long black hair and crazy looking, though I don't remember how the book describes him.
I posted this on the last vid too - but I definitely recommend watching the Harry Potter series (I’m sure you’ve gotten this before) the first 2 movies are a little kiddish, but they get intense pretty quick. It’s a very unique journey and a wild ride, i’m sure you’d love it. Loving ur GoT reactions, can’t wait to see what you think of the last 2 seasons. They’re a little controversial amongst fans but will be interesting anyway
Omgosh yes!
"a little controversial“ is an understatement
Lord of the Rings or Star Wars would be awesome, too.
yesss this would be a lot of fun major
yes please
If you were watching GoT live, you more than likely knew about it. It was the most talked about theory of the whole series. That's why the reveal was done like that without saying a word.Anything else would've been redundant. Most of the audience knew. They were just waiting for the confirmation. The transition to Jon's face was basically that moment of exhilaration. But yeah trust me, you need Sherlock Holmes skills to watch GoT years later without knowing anything and pick up on the R+L=J easters.
Great reaction Major! You brought tears to my eyes. Ned’s sacrifice due to his love for his sister and Jon touches me so much. The Jon Snow reveal from S6x10 is the best scene ever! And S1x2 is still in my Top 5 episodes just for the JS and Ned goodbye scene. “He chose the love of his family” ❤️
R+L=J was an old theory being kicked around for years before it was revealed.
Hey, if you look really closely on some shots, Jon's eyes have a slightly violet appearance, the Targaryen eyes. In particular I noticed it in the shot when Aemon was talking about his family dying to Jon. There was a close-up of Aemon's eyes, and another close-up of Jon's eyes. A sharp-eyed viewer saw they both had violet eyes, though Aemon's eyes are grey-violet and Jon's eyes are black-violet.
People often say A Song of Ice and Fire is the tragic love story of Rhaegar and Lyanna. But I look at it as the tragic love story of Robert and Ned. Ned had a choice. He chose his Brother in Arms, he took the fall for Robert's vindictiveness, and for the rest of his life he was tormented by whether he had made the right choice. There's that description of a young lean and fierce Robert caving in Rhaegar's chest with the Warhammer, as the rubies that made up the Prince's dragon sigil scatters into the wind turning the water of the river Trident blood red. It's such brilliant description. The conflicting inner monologue that Ned has throughout the first book about his sister,Robert and Rhaegar has to be some of the best fiction I've read. "Look at us, Ned,” Robert said. “Gods, how did we come to this? You here, and me killed by a pig. We won a throne together…”
I find that Benjen did know things. The way he treats Jon, always looking out for him, telling him if he's sure about going to the wall, that he might regret it, talking to Ned to get the idea out of Jon's head.
My man, you are very, very intelligent! You are also very observant. You pick up on so many things. A lot of things that I missed the first time I watched. It's one of the reasons I really enjoy watching your reactions.
This is probably the best fan made video ever made for Game of Thrones. He picks out every scene from the entire series up to that point. There are a couple of these that literally make you smack your forehead.
The best two by far in my opinion. Are little finger and sansa in the crypt. That knowing smile he gives after sansa makes the kidnapping comment......chills.
And Maester Amon telling Sam that a Targaryan alone in the world is a terrible thing. And RIGHT THEN Jon walks in the door.......super chills.
I feel like the Starks have even crazier blood then the targaryans. Wargs and King's of winter for 8000 years. And Jon has both and doesn't have standard targaryan traits so apparently the stark line has more dominant traits
Imagine if Jon could control it more when he wargs into Ghost!!
While I agree about the genetic traits, remember that Maester Aemon was full Targaryen, but he went to the Citadel as a young man and spent his entire adult life surrounded by men like Lord Commander Mormont. Jon was raised by a Stark and a Tully, and surrounded by other honorable people. Upbringing has just as important a role as blood.
I think maybe the Targaryans possess some the Warg ability, how else to explain Danys connection to her Dragons?
@@jamiebeebe9606 Thats not even close to warging.
What if a household servant overheard The Starks discussing Jon's heritage? Imagine how much money Robert would have paid for such information. As long as Robert lived, he was a threat to Jon.
Ned knew Robert, and the depth of his obsession when it came to Lyanna.
As to your question "did uncle Benjen know?" for me I feel he probs did because when Jon told him he was joining the black. Jon was talking about how he knew he was giving up his future of farthering children and Benjen cryptically said back "You'd be giving up more than you know" as if he knew of Jon's true parentage and the fact that he was not really a bastard.
But this is only fan base theory. Thanks to books we currently know that the only two persons who has known the truth were Ned and Howland Reed.
@@jaszcz86 I know tho the show and books are not the same so it's all up for grabs
I'd edit out that last comment, he hasn't figured that part out yet
Well, he is a bastard. Rhaegar was married with Elia 😉
It can work two ways. The way that you're saying, and in the fact that Jon was rather naive at that time and truly didn't know what it was like to live as of yet. It wasn't until Jaime told him "it's only for life" about the nights watch that Jon started to really reflect on what it would mean to give up things he didn't get to experience yet. And then when he finally gets there he says "everyone knew what this place was, and only (Tyrion) told me the truth."
Damn I love this show
The irony of watching this, and having an advert interrupt saying "This game... you're not ready for it".
And now we understand why Ned said he confess his treason...but he didn't confess the treason he had in mind. Keeping Jon alive and safe.
It was a treason against Robert but he was loyal to was the correct thing to do
This "GAME" of Thrones, you're not ready for it. Perfect ad. XD
It's not that Ned didn't trust Cat, he did. He would have told her if his honor would let let him, but it didn't let him. When it comes to Ned's code of honor, it's very simple: Lyanna made him promise to protect Jon. The moment he agrees and keeps him, that's it. It's sealed. In his eyes, he's honor-bound to do anything and everything to keep that promise. His honor wouldn't let him ever break it, no matter what. A vow, especially a vow to his sister who he loved, is unbreakable in his eyes.
I love the way you refuse to just throw around the word 'whore'. Men do what they gotta do to survive in this world and they're seen as heroes. If a woman has to sell her body to get by here, why is it different? It's a tough world
Neds the best character in the show, hands down. Not even close.
You know what is really weird? When Jon was killed at the wall, when Davos said get him inside, they picked up Jons body and Davos looked at the ground in a weird way? The blood on the ground was taking the shape of the Targaryen Sigil. Look again..... I'll wait.😁 In the books, Jon is still dead. He hasn't finished them yet, and probably never will.
RE: What people who read the books know. So, in the books Jon hasn't even been resurrected yet. So they're not even close to this part of the story yet. That being said... R+L=J has been a fan theory for literally decades as you can see from the ending quote to this video, one of the reasons D&D got to direct the show was they guessed correctly who Jon's mother was when talking with George Martin. So glad you reacted to this. It's amazing how much was just... there. Out in the open for everyone to see.
woww. As many times as ive seen this show, that "cant get your hands on this one, can you" line sailed right by me🤯
How lucky is Jon that he has the Stark hair though. There's no way Ned would have gotten away with that lie if Jon had been born with the Targaryen silver hair.
Not all Targaryens have silver hair though. In the books, it's quite common in places like Lys. Some people in Westeros in the books have really pale blonde hair. Tyrion Lannister and Tommen have very light hair.
@@rainluna9765 The Targaryens in book canon have silver hair & purple eyes they stand out in Westeros so if Jon had those features it would become obvious eventually.
If ned had told catlyn the truth, she would have been able to love jon like a son... but that couldve been a dead give-away. Maybe anyone who knew cat well would have known she would struggle with loving a bastard child and with ned being too honourable to cheat, it may have led to suspicions. Ned chose to keep the secret even thoughbit would mean hardships for all 3 of them.
I think that Cat eventually knew her husband was lying to her. As Jon grew up she must have noticed the resemblance between Jon and his parents. She knew what Rheagar looked like. She certainly knew what Lyanna looked like. I like to think that she knew her husband would never tell her, to keep the family safe. And everytime she looks at Jon; she sees the reason for the death of her first true love, the war that killed so many people. And she is supposed to be a mother to a bastard through whom's veins runs the same blood that nearly destroyed the country. And because her husband is so honorable, he is willing to put the lives of her true born children at stake. I think that's why she could not love Jon, even after the pox. A constant reminder of misery and potential danger. A woman always knows.
Hi Major, many people spread theory that Benjen knew about it, but at the current state of books we know that the only two persons that knew about it were Ned and Howland Reed (Meera's father who was with Ned at the Tower of Joy).
Littlefinger knew that it wasn't a kidnapping. He didn't know about Jon's parentage.
They never really touch on it in the show like they did in the books but it’s pretty obvious everyone who was alive at that time knew that Roberts version wasn’t accurate
In the full episode , when Jon died, the blood on the snow took the shape of a wolf, then a dragon
for the books, we are not at the point where Jon's parentage is revealed. But there was tons of circumstantial evidence that almost everyone was fairly certain of his true parentage
I am HYPED for house of the dragon but I WISH we had a show for ROBERT'S REBELLION. Yes we know the general story but it's a great one nonetheless
I would like to watch them since they were children
i feel like the mystery around the rebellion adds to it a lot. if it was ever made into a show i feel they would struggle to give satisfying answers to all the questions surrounding the time period. with that being said i’d love to see those characters interact and the big moments of the rebellion
Hard. For that, at least Winds of Winter would need to be released to show what REALLY happened here from George himself. With Fire and Blood 2 aka Blood and Fire coming soon, the Blackfyre Rebellion is way more possible. George also said that a show about Dunk and Egg, one about Nymeria one about Corlys and one about YiTi are being produced. Some of them are animations tho.
I feel like the historical vagueness of Robert's Rebellion in the TV show works really well. I'd like to see it as a show, too, but having it deliberately vague and almost being looked at with a sort of mystical quality reminds me of how people talk fondly about the past but don't realise that they're looking back at history with a warped perspective. Ned would certainly look back at Robert's Rebellion in a 100% different way someone like Robert, Barristan, Oberyn or Tywin Lannister would.
I kinda just don't care about house of the dragon. I still have a bad taste in my mouth. I really just want GRRM to finish the damn books.
"There is power in a King's blood." --- Melisandre, the Red Priestess.
Love to see more people enjoying the series
We were all so quick to judge Ned for being honourable to a fault. And I don't think we were entirely wrong in that. He refused to play the game by the game's rules, and his entire family was endangered and slaughtered for years as a result. But. We need to keep well in mind that he compromised his honour to protect Jon and keep his promise to his sister. I wrote a whole thing about it, but I like how TV Tropes puts it:
In hindsight it's a Moment of Awesome for Ned Stark. In Season 1, he was the Butt-Monkey of a Decadent Court, which eventually led to his death. But it was he, of all people, the one who managed to keep maybe the most dangerous secret of Westeros, fooling for almost twenty years consummate chessmasters of the size of Tywin Lannister, Littlefinger and Varys.
Also with that comes vindication for Ned in the fact that he never fathered a child with anyone but Catelyn and was loyal to her through and through. One of Ned's few pitfalls was never true to begin with and, in addition to that, the real truth behind it all makes him even more awesome: Ned spent the rest of his life protecting his nephew (Jon), raising him as his own, and honored his sister's dying wish to save her son, out of love for them both. He accepted the stain on his honor and kept one of the most dangerous secrets in Westeros to protect the only child of his deceased sister.
And it is another awesome moment for Ned (sadly posthumously) in that it is a subtle refutation of how men like Varys, Littlefinger, and Tywin think: they're all so focused on the politicking and backstabbing way of thinking that they never could have imagined or expected Jon Snow to NOT be Ned Stark's bastard son. As far as they were concerned, Jon Snow was simply an amusing reminder that no one, not even noble and upright Ned Stark, is perfect and that everyone has skeletons in their closet. They never once stopped to think that Ned Stark would choose to stain his reputation and cause a rift in his marriage to Catelyn simply because he was willing to do the one thing that Varys, Littlefinger, and Tywin Lannister seem incapable of doing: selflessly think of someone other than himself. As a result? Jon Snow stands poised to contend as the true King of Westeros.
I’m so thrilled you watched this bc revisiting those hidden moments when you have the right knowledge really reveals the full depth of this show’s tragic nature. Yes the murder, betrayal, the loss and the torture are atrocious but I’ve always found the saddest parts to be the loose ends that never get closure. We’re just left having to cope with the discomfort of them never being resolved. That Ned and Jon never got to talk after Ned promised they would when they reunited, that Cat died never knowing the truth about Ned’s fidelity or Jon’s true parentage. The entirety of the Stark siblings journeys just… always missing each other. For me, that’s what made Jon and Sansa’s reunion so damn powerful because we sooo rarely get resolution and they threw us a friggin’ bone. Felt so good.
IF you think the show runners are slick when it comes to dropping Easter Eggs, the books are going to make your brain explode.
George R.R. Martin is very good at foreshadowing and dropping critical facts, and then making you forget all about them.
After this reveal I just wanted to give Jon a hug 🥹
When it comes to R+L=J you gotta check out Alt Shift X channel, he was among the first to sus out R+L=J way early on
R+L=J was sussed out years and years ago. There's a thread on reddit about it, which states a forum from 1996 called Dragonstone mentioned it. There was another one from 1998 apparently, which talked about it a year before A Clash of Kings came out.
@@brownsey1 Thank you. I was talking about Lyanna Stark & what “Protect him, Ned!” was all about 13 or 14 years before most people had ever heard of Jon Snow or Game of Thrones. For the book readers, this was 20+ years of waiting for confirmation.
@@goldenageofdinosaurs7192 Yeah I started reading the books a year before the show came out and a cursory look online showed me that people were very well up on the differing theories years in advance of HBO's production.
@@brownsey1 true, but Alt Shift X vids are far more entertaining than reading threads on Reddit imo & not many ppl were really discussing it back then except for die hard book fans, Alt Shift X was among tne first to popularize the R+L=J theroy
@@JeremyIceAndFire33 The fact remains that R+L=J absolutely did not start with Alt Shift X. I can guarantee you that Alt has been on reddit too. The ASOIAF reddit page was hugely popular. It currently has over 700,000 members, even though no new books have been published in years. Back when the Game of Thrones series first started, and A Dance of Dragons was just released, the reddit page was very, very popular. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't popularised before Alt publicised it.
A commenter on another r + l = j vid wrote the reason Ned told Jon he would talk about his mother the next time he spoke to him is because after Jon joined the night’s watch he would be forgiven for all ‘crimes’ and basically couldn’t be touched. Everyone could know the truth even though he wouldn’t ever able to be king. Crazy.
« You don’t Have my Name but you Have my blood »
If Jon have not Stark as name so Ned isnt the father
And if they have the same blood it meens that they are in the same family During all this Time from the first episode We had the clue
It hasn't been revealed in the books yet! But the fans knew it long before. It is the most famous ASOIF theory. There are discussions on online forms from the 90s about the theory.
Stargaryen
this is the reason why jon is my fav
Good to see that you got it, unsure to drop reminders, clues that you have already seen.
I've often wondered if Aemon Targaryen knew that Jon was Rhaegar's son when he cast the deciding vote for Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. Jon had his own merits but still......
he didnt
I like to imagine George R. R. Martin asking "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" was not some sort of test, but because he hadn't figured it out himself yet and he was digging for ideas.
Definitely not lol, it was clear from book 1 that Lyanna being the mother was his intention.
Meera's dad knew the secret
Either way Jon actually was Benjin’s nephew.
“In deep geek - R + L = J”
Simply put 🙂
Edit: in the books I believe we still don’t officially know his parentage.
“Rest in peace, O” 🤣🤣🤣🤣😭
It’s sad that Maester Aemon died without knowing that Jon was Rhaeger’s son
its been several years since I read the books but if I remember right, Danerys is still in Essos and hasn't crossed the narrow sea yet. I think season 5 is about where the books are at now.
Just a bit of context for the video - I believe it was a fan made video that was made after the end of season five. At that point, the identity of Jon's mother was not known in the show OR in the books. In fact, in the books the identity of Jon's mother is STILL not confirmed. Season 5 of the show basically caught up to where the books are and beginning with season six the show moved past the books for the first time. The "R+L=J" theory had been around for years. This video was made as a way of assembling evidence supporting the theory but, as I said, at the time it had not been confirmed in the show or in the books. When we saw that scene with Lyanna and baby Jon Snow at the end of season six, it was finally confirmation of the theory.
At the end of the video, that was show co-creator David Benioff telling the story of how they met with author George R.R. Martin to talk about doing the show and to test them to see how much they knew about the books Martin asked them "Who is Jon Snow's real mother?".
There are some really great videos out there that you’ll be able to watch soon. A lot of the fan content is amazing. Specific videos for Dany, Jon… some of them made me bawl my eyes out. This video should def be the first in the line of reactions to fan-driven vids. Your mods will know what videos I’m referring to and advise when you’re allowed to watch them.
I don’t even wanna post the names to some of the videos because even that can be a spoiler. Lol
The only thing missing was a clip of Arthur Dayne saying “I wish you good fortune in the wars to come” goosebumps every time!!
Book readers were never told about Jon's parentage but I think most of us guessed it before the last book.we never got as far as the show is where your at.
3rd time lucky? *finger crossed* :)
FIRE AND ICE 🔥💙
I also remember thinking, yea Ned's noble, but if he really fathered a bastard... why bring it home? He could have left it with the mother and no one would have been the wiser. That was the dead give away to me.
Song (Jon) of Fire (Targaryen) and Ice (Stark)
at 7:22...Baelish doesn't know what happened, but he does understand how most people work with emotions.
Ned, Howland Reed ( meera and Jojen's dad ), the Kings guards at Tower of Joy, Willa the wet nurse and most likely Ashara Deyne and Benjen.
the one thing i don't like is that Ned Stark said to Jon "the next time we see each other, we'll talk about your mother." Ned wanted to wait until Jon took the black, forfeiting lands and titles, to tell him the truth.
Book readers picked up on R+L=J a lot earlier, but I don't think that's a ☆book readers are smarter and more highbrow☆ thing lol. Just due to the actual mechanical difference between reading text (which is active) and watching film (passive). When I'm reading something I don't get, I'll go back and read that paragraph, page, or even chapter over until it makes sense. In a show, you kinda gotta just keep moving cuz no one wants to pause and rewind that much. I didn't know about "*R+*L=J" that early, but as early as book 1 I and most other avid readers who can recognize tropes were aware that he was Lyanna's child (or at the very least, not Ned's).
Thinking about the choice Ned had to make in order to protect Jon, makes me think of Jaime's speech about vows. "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. _Defend the King. Obey the King. Obey your father. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak._ But what if your father _despises_ the King? What if the King _massacres_ the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."
Jaime thought someone like Ned couldn't possibly understand. And for what it's worth, maybe Ned still wouldn't have understood even if Jaime had told him the truth. But Ned has been faced with a choice like that, too. _Keep your promise to your sister. Protect your family. Be loyal to your king and best friend. Be faithful to your wife._ But what if keeping your promise means lying to the whole world, including your best friend and king and even your own family? What if being loyal to the king would get your nephew killed? What if protecting your nephew means claiming to be unfaithful? No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another.
Jaime thinks Ned Stark can afford to be so honourable only because he's never faced a choice like that. But he has. And like Jaime, he made the right choice, but has been resented for it ever since by people who don't know the whole story. It's sad really, that neither of them knew how alike they really were.
Little Finger knew that Rhegar and Lyanna fell in love, but he didn't know about the baby. I completely agree with you about Benjen! Here's a question no one ever fully investigates: Why did Benjen, a lord of Winterfell and brother to the Warden of the North, take the Black in the first place? He committed no crimes. They never address it in the show, and the books say he did it to get away from Winterfell. I have ALWAYS believed Benjen took the Black so he could protect Jon when he came of age to join the Watch. What's more, I think Lord Commander Mormont knew who Jon was as well.
It's sad that Ned had to lie to even Catelyn, since I'm sure she would've been so horrified with herself if she knew that was her legitimate nephew that she was treating so hatefully. But that's probably exactly why Ned didn't tell her. It would've made everyone suspicious if Catelyn ever treated Jon with kindness and love. It would've drawn attention and curiosity towards him.
Jon's parentage hasn't even been confirmed in the books yet, but it''s been a huge question/theory since the first book, so yes, most have been looking for the foreshadowing from the start. Getting the confirmation was just as good for us as it was for you though, it was just a theory after all.
They don’t tell us in the books, we still have 2 books to go
and to think about it Robert was Ned’s best friend so Ned could’ve just asked him to give Jon his family name and be a stark but idk I think Ned didn’t want to erase jon's whole identity by doing that
Yay I caught it this time! Lol 😅 TH-cam back up! 😂
Hahaha right?! I'm stuck at work and have to wait now 😩
@@triscuitzreactz oh noooo! Lol I wonder why they would take it down, makes no sense to me
to be honest Ned could have at least told Catelyn. She would have understood and kept her mouth shut and probably loved Jon.
I wondered about that, too. I think that's exactly why he didn't tell her though. It would've made people suspicious if she loved Jon.
15:05 - Yes. It's possible to know the truth about Jon already in the first book
@Major Reacts, when you watch the History and Lore, pay particular attention to the tale of The Knight of the Laughing Tree narrated by Meera Reed. It's a conversation she had with Bran in the books. Meera and Jojen both know the story very well as their father Howland has told it to them several times. They're so surprised Bran hasn't heard it before that they question him about it more than once while they retell it. Why?
The Knight of the Laughing Tree jousted at the infamous Tourney at Harrenhal. The key players were Howland Reed - the bannerman to House Stark who was later with Ned at the Tower of Joy - Benjen and Lyanna Stark and Aerys and Rhaegar Targaryen. Ned was probably drawn into the situation after the fact. It doesn't seem Ned's father and brother Brandon knew the truth. They accused the Crown Prince of kidnapping and were executed for it. Damn.
Alt Shift X and In Deep Geek each have excellent collections of R+L=J and Harrenhal videos. Additionally, In Deep Geek has two videos I very highly recommend. The first is about how Littlefinger most likely told Brandon about R+L and when. The second is about why Benjen really joined the Night's Watch and how his comment to Jon about not joining "if he knew what it meant" takes on a deeper significance considering Benjen's involvement in the events at Harrenhal. He and Howland (the only one still definitely alive) would know that Jon is heir to the Iron Throne.
They were dropping those eggs for the book readers, because we had been postulating R+L=J for decades.
Most of the hints in the show were too subtle for the show fans to pick up on. But they were just enough to tease the book fans without giving us anything concrete.
That said, the books unveil their hints in a variety of ways - some similar and some different from the show.
To start, maybe it's because Star Wars has made me a person who questions the parentage of all fictional character, but I started growing suspicious when so many characters in the books noted how "unexpected" it was for the "honorable Ned Stark" to father a bastard.
And I can't remember who says it (or if it's from multiple POVs), but it's mentioned that Ned came back from with war with only his bastard and Lyanna's bones.
So I started paying attention, and I noticed that Ned never calls Jon his "son" in the books, only his "blood." Even in his inner monologue.
He also lists his "children" at one point and doesn't include Jon.
In addition, Ned often thinks about how much Arya looks like and reminds him of Lyanna. And, in turn, Arya constantly thinks about how Jon is her only "sibling" who looks like her. So in a roundabout way we learn that Jon looks like Lyanna.
Another thing I noticed while reading the first book is that Ned thinks of Rhaegar a lot. And he often wonders what the realm would be like under Rhaegar - in a way that made me curious if he thought Rhaegar would have done a better job than Robert.
But he also wonders about Rhaegar as a parent, which I found...notable.
Also, when Ned's suffering from his busted leg - especially while he's waiting in the cell in Kings Landing - his fever dreams are full of Lyanna dying in a "bed of blood," begging "Promise me, Ned."
And during one of the times Varys visits Ned in the cell, he asks Ned if he wants to write letters to anyone. Ned thinks about how he needs to write to Jon. (Not sure if he
And throughout the books, but especially in those scenes, Ned's inner monologue often segues from Rhaegar to Lyanna to Jon or some combination of the three.
Then, when Ned dies, Bran, Rickon, and Jon all have dreams of the Winterfell crypts. In Jon's dream, he's trying to go into the crypts to look for Ned and Robb, but the Kings of Winter are telling him he doesn't belong because he's not a Stark.
And then, when I went looked back through Book 1 for more hints, I noticed some crazy irony and clues during the Royal visit to Winterfell. First, during the conversation with Uncle Benjen about Jon joining the Nights Watch, Benjen tells Jon that he "doesn't know what he'd be giving up" by taking the vows. [Remember the vows include, "I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory."]
Also, at the end of Jon's conversation with Tyrion about all dwarves being bastards in their fathers' eyes, the scene ends with "When he [Tyrion] opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king." Was this just pretty imagery? Or was GRRM sneakily saying that Tyrion's shadow looked the same size as Jon's?
And there is also a great scene from Arya's perspective where she comes up on Jon sitting off to the side watching Joff, Robb, Theon (and I think Bran and Tommen?) sparring in the training yard. Arya asks Jon why he isn't out there with them, and he replies, ""Bastards are not allowed to damage young princes."
And I'm probably forgetting a million other small clues.
As for the rest of the books, it's been a decade since I read them so I can't remember everything.
They definitely give us more information about the Tourney at Harrenhal. We learn that Winter Roses are Lyanna's favorite flower. So Rhaegar went out of his way to give her a crown of her favorites.
And then there are hints about Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Jon when Dany is in the House of the Undying. Rhaegar talks about how he must have another child because, "The Dragon needs 3 heads." (We learn later that Rhaegar is obsessed with prophecy, and that he believes he needed to have 3 children to protect the realm from The Others.) She also sees him calling out the name of his beloved as he dies in battle. And she see a winter rose growing out of the Wall.
Also, Jojen and Meera tell Bran the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, who careful readers believe is the story of Lyanna's adventures from the Tourney at Harrenhal. And it does a lot to explain why Rhaegar crowned her. (But that is a story for another day).
The other major hint I remember is that Maester Aemon's "Kill the Boy" speech was longer, and it included a story of his brother, King Aegon V, who was nicknamed "Egg." In his speech, he tells Jon, "Kill the boy within you, I told him [Egg] the day I took ship for the Wall. It takes a man to rule. An Aegon, not an Egg. Kill the boy and let the man be born."
Oh! And then there is Melisandre's particular interest in Jon. On the surface, it seems like she just likes men who are leaders or have power.
But we all know she's drawn to "Kings Blood."
Many postulate that she's especially drawn to Jon because he has both the blood of the Targ Kings and the Kings of Winter.
But I think it's always been Blood of the "Dragons" that she has been drawn to, and not just any old so-called "King's Blood."
Many people forget that Robert and Stannis's grandmother was a Targ. (I think she may have even been Egg's daughter and Aemon's niece??? I'd have to check to confirm that...) So they (and Shireen and Robert's Bastards) all have Blood of the Dragon.
And Jon would have "less diluted" Dragon blood...plus whatever magic is in the Stark line. And, as you know, there is quite a bit.
14:35 I know it all makes now, and how didn’t I figure it out with all of these clues? hindsight is 20/20. It’s like the reveal at the end of Sixth Sense.
So, in the books, the R+L=J theory hasn't been positively confirmed like it was in the show, the books just hasn't come that far yet. However, i'd argue that the hints/evidence are even stronger in the books.
You should checkout
Ramsey Bolten: the ultimate kindest man in Westeros
Oooooh I can't wait til you finish this!!! Can you do some binges 🤣 Loved the reaction!!
WOOOOOOO!!!! STOAKED TO WATCH THIS
A few people knew the secret, Ned himself, his sister who died, Benjen found out through his sister, Howland Reed Mera and Jojen’s father, The Kingsguard who died, Rheagar who died, the wet nurses one of which was the one Ned told Robert was Jon’s mother.
Most people suspected like Stannis, Jon Arryn, Little Finger, ect
The lies that are told to protect a secret for as long as possible
We knew. The books have not confirmed it, but it was a given before that.
the books are quite sneaky with dropping different types of hints, but because the books are not finished the secret hasn't been officially revealed yet, but I'm sure when it is it will super cool!
I knew sometin was up wen d show kept bringin up jon's mother and rhaegar but wen aemon and jon convo stannis and his wife convo and baelish convo wt sansa then maester aemon and sam convo i knew somebody lyin
Just found your channel. I'm definitely going to go back and watch your other G.O.T. reactions. If you're looking for another series to react to I have to suggest Vikings. I think you'd really enjoy it. Good luck and keep up the great work.
Because he was raised a stark even though treated as a outsider. One grandfather killed his other grandfather