It doesn't make sense at almost 8k. It's too similar to a trident or a cb650r or an fz07. I get that there is a Harley tax, but those other bikes are competitively priced and featured. Especially initially there won't be many options for 3rd party customization which is a big deal in American Harley culture.
I would think so, I'm still in shock that after your admitted love for harley, you ended up with a triumph. I could have pictured you with a street bob or heritage classic. that seems your style. either way, I enjoyed my street 500 for my MSF course, but wouldn't want one, it did change my mind on cruisers though. I am going to be getting a harley soon.
Australian & not a Harley fan here. I've been following the news on the Harley Davidson X bikes since they were announced because they are the first Harley's I've genuinely been interested in. And when they said they were coming to Australia in January I immediately looked up where my local Harley dealer is. And then I saw the price. Yeesh! For the same money for the 500 I could get the Benelli, an exhaust & tune, an orange vinyl wrap & some Harley stickers & most people wouldn't know the difference. I'd probably also have some money left over to cover insurance too. I'm still going to visit a Harley dealer for the first time ever, but I'll be looking at the X 350, not the X 500. And they'll have to work really hard to talk me out of my money. Update: Triumph have just announced pricing on their new 400's. The Speed 400 is $8,990 AUD & the Scrambler 400 X is $9,990 AUD, right between the X 350's $8,495 AUD & the X 500's $11,495 AUD pricing. I guess I'll be going to the Triumph dealer in January instead.
Thanks for the comment. That highlights the problem very well. It is not an easy market to compete in with a lot of great competitors which is probably the reason why Harley is reluctant to do it. Pricing is key and HD never did a good job in comprehensible and competetive pricing. With the exception of the PanAm. So probability is high that Harley is burning a lot of money by trying to enter the beginners market because they are pricing themselves out of the market...
In Oz , when I went to the HD dealership to inquire about the HD X440 (an Indian ,Hero , made single) , the Chinese parra. twins had just arrived . The sales team seemed completely unimpressed with the prospect of having to sell them.
They need it in their line up. They have nothing remotely close to an affordable entry level bike to give people a reason to walk in the showroom floor. But not at Harley-Davidson prices. It just won't happen if they try to get greedy with the MSRP. Specially as soon as people catch wind of it's origin.
Do you see Lamborghini or Rolls Royce making cheap cars for the poor? No. Harley aint doing it either. If you don't got pockets! go buy an Indian Scout Bobber 😂
I personally believe it would be a good idea to have a “beginner friendly” Harley on the showroom floor. The biggest problem is when you look at what happened with the Buell blast and later the HD Street 500. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Harley’s. But the first 4 years I spent on my XL1200C I got the question “how’s it like riding a girls bike” to which my answer was always “unlike you’re 107 that’s in the shop again, it’s been great”. Basically the problem with buying into the world of Harley Davidson is the owners of Harley Davidson’s. Other Harley riders are going to call an X350/500 a toy or a kids bike which will probably turn a few people off. Once all the videos come out on “how it’s a Chinese Harley and not a real bike” people are going to move over to a company like….. Honda. Purchase a shiny new rebel 500 (which have been reviewed favourably and at a close price tag) and not be bothered of the fact that they “Don’t have a real Harley”
Benelli Leoncino - $6,799 Kawasaki Eliminator - $6,649 Honda Rebel 500 - $6,449 Is anyone buying this bike at it's current price if it was branded HD? At a ~14% markup of $7,750 just buy an SV650.
It gets worse. The SV650 is $505 AUD cheaper than the X 500 here in Australia. In fact, for less than the X 500 you can also get a Honda CBR500R, CB500X, CRF300 Rally, CL500, CB500F, CMX500 or CMX500 S Edition or either the CFMOTO 700 CL-X Adventure or 800 NK Sport. And Triumph have announced pricing on their new 400's. The Speed 400 is $8,990 AUD & the Scrambler 400 X is $9,990 AUD, right between the X 350's $8,495 AUD & the X 500's $11,495 AUD pricing.
I remember the badged Harley's from the 60's and 70's, those were never accepted as Harley's. I think Harley needs a smaller mid-sized bike for beginners and older riders downsizing but it needs to have Harley DNA. The market is there, just look how the Royal Enfield Classic 350 sells. I'm 66 and I've downsized from a big Harley to a Moto Guzzi V7 Special, I'd seriously consider adding a small Harley to my garage but it needs to be a real Harley.
I was thinking a new 750cc V twin that is water cooled but looks air cooled like what Triumph did with their twins. Easier to get it to meet European emission standards with liquid cooling. Put in a slick 6 speed gear box and get the weight down to around 450 lbs. HD could style it however they want, a new Sportster or a standard bike like a Triumph Speed Twin. @@GIGABACHI
"Look at how the Royal Enfield Classic 350 sells." The Royal Enfield bikes are good looking. 'Same with the new Triumph 400s. These new "Harleys" are surprisingly ugly. Stay with your Guzzi V7.
Spite did a journalism for us! I would totally consider an X500 if the price was in line with other higher end bikes in that class. It probably doesn't need to be under $6,000 like a ninja... but it can't be 10k either IMO. I own 4 Japanese bikes including a metric cruiser. HD has nothing to offer that fits in my line up other than I get to say I have one... which is not really enough of a motivating factor to cause me get one.
I think the Chinese harleys look cool and all but im not sure what id do with it. Rebels, vulcans , royal Enfield work just fine for the smaller bike market.
And to your point, if Royal Enfield is selling a 350 for $4,500, Honda is selling a 300 for $5,000, and Triumph is selling a 400 for $5,500, Harley will attempt to sell a 350 that is at most the equivalent of one of those bikes, save for the Harley sticker on the tank, for $8,000.
I definitely agree that this would be a great way to lock in more riders into the HD shield. Specially if they're already taking the classes at a HD dealer on thise bikes, no new rider wants to spend a bunch of money on a "beginner" Harley to inevitably dump it soon after getting it. If every HD part was 100% made in the US, i would see ppls argument about QC. but with other chinese brands like CF MOTO Starting to bring better proces and descent bikes, it would be a dumb idea not to try to increase market share with a more economical, beginner offering.
A Leoncino 500 clone...oh dear. Good luck with that. I owned one for a year, and very happily traded it in for a Yamaha Tracer 700 as soon as my husband decided to go for a Ténéré (we mostly ride together). My fancy screen did not work until the bike saw the shop three times, and the rear brake froze shortly after the 1000 km check. As I modified the seat and got the see the seat shell - I was shocked. About the thickness of a yoghurt cup, it tore when I removed the staples (had to patch it with resin). Thusly I was really not interested what lurked beneath that seat. Hopefully, Harley orders better quality. The devil is in the details, as they say. But yes, it was a really handsome bike. Just was not curious to find out how long it would last.
Long time HD owner here. Yes HD really needs to bring both these sleds to the states. As you said Spite, there is no way a Sportster is a beginner ride. Stock it will try it's best to kill you. With better shocks and a swap of the front setup internals, it's a blast to ride. That said though, I would buy a 500 for a daily rider for work in no time flat, assuming a price that isn't somewhere in low earth orbit.
Eh. As someone who took their MSF course through a HD dealer, they had the x350 for our training bikes, They are extremely uncomfortable, large seats, high seat heights, and not better than just getting a rebel or cb350/500r. I wouldn’t buy one, honestly. Not when Honda does starter bikes better than anyone. HD has their market and they still don’t seem interested in stretching out of it here in North America
I have a Pan Am and a Sport Glide. I was lucky enough to be an experienced rider and afford those in my 20s. I know my local dealer is struggling with the price of the bikes in the UK, and they have nothing to offer younger and new riders who they want to get into the brand since the Street and XL883 were discontinued. My local chapter is full of older people but nobody my age. Harley NEED to make this a world bike for their long term survival IMO.
Harley Davidson sells an X 440 in India. It's a 420 pound air-oil cooled under-square single. I don't know why they won't bring it to the USA. It would compete with the new Triumph Speed 400, Royal Enfield Hunter 350, KTM Duke 390, etc. The X 500 would also appeal to new riders. Liquid-cooled parallel twin. I think Harley is worried about its image. Beginner bikes from Harley would embarrass some traditional biker dudes. Harley markets image more than any other maker.
I have a Harley, it’s the 5th Harley I’ve owned. I’ve had everything from a Sportster to a Street Glide. I have very much soured on them and will never buy another Harley for as long as I live. I think if it came here, it would flop. The Triumph Speed 400 is going to be $5k and everyone seems blown away by it. So I expect them to be a hot seller in the states and not even just beginners. I’ve been riding close to a decade now and I’d trade my Softail for one tomorrow just to have a fun little bike to bop around on and ride to work occasionally so I don’t keep pouring the miles on my MT-09. So I’m excited to see that bike in person. For $5k it might just end up in my garage because that’s an awesome bike for that price.
Yeah, I also don't think HD will succeed on the beginners market because of the pricing. Too much competition who can produce better or similar bikes for a much lower price. And price is key for this market, not the batch.
I just passed my MSF course with harley. They had the x350 there for the students. It's an okay bike but I will say the seat was very uncomfortable for me, I'm 5'11" 180lbs, 32" in-seam. Other than that I had a blast learning on it. I believe they were downtuned for training class purposes as well.
Senior re entering motorcycling here , finished getting bike course last month. I looked at what Harley had , I bought a Cfmoto CL-X 700 , $6087.00 new out the door price . Why buy a bike that costs more and gives you less ?
i did my msf at HD and we had something similar i thought- i know the instructor said something about 350 when i asked. I remember thinking' why dont they sale these - theyve been trying to sell me but no way im spending that much on a bike for my first bike
Harley needs a USA beginner's bike but not if they are going to mark up a badged bike. They can gouge the buyers when they matriculate to the "real" Harleys. FWIW I basically grew up in a H-D shop, could get a discount on any bike I wanted. In HS I bought my first new Harley, an Italian made 125, followed by a 250 then a 350. Never bought a "real" Harley, Japanese motorcycles caught my eye and had way more bang for the buck. Never needed the ego boost that owning a real Harley offers.
I thought I saw a lot of negative comments about the x500 a few months back and thought I must be crazy because I like it, at least the looks and the idea coming to the US. I disagreed with the negative views of it. Totally agree with Spite on this and appreciate the work to talk about it.
A FB friend teaches beginning rider courses at his dealership and he has already said how much he wishes HD would bring that bike to the US, if only to use in the classes. It would be far and away much better as an option than anything else in the HD lineup, and that alone would help drive sales of the 500.
The X500 is not a bike for me, but they absolutely need something that’s beginner friendly in their lineup and this fits that bill. The issue I expect to see is that it will be slandered by old guard Harley riders as “not a real Harley” or a “chick bike” or a “non-American piece of junk”. That’s how that went down for the Street series. I don’t expect this to be any different, which would be a shame.
The Nightster S is a different model from the Sportster S. I owned a 22 for a year. When she wasn’t having issues she was a Hell of a bike. Faulty welds on the handle bar, starting issues, hand control malfunctions, and still stalled after having that all fix I sold her. Many true HD crowd dislike the new Nightster and Sportster. I agree price wise HD doesn’t have an entry bike. They tried with Buell. I agree with the sentiment that with it being built in China is not what HD needs a rebadged entry level bike that with the inverted forks and twin disc up front will sell at least 9-10k in a segment ruled by the Honda Rebel. The Rebel 500 se sells for 7. However Kawasaki jumped into the segment and their new Eliminator 451 I just picked up. Their top of the line se sell for 7200. Entry level 500 needs to be affordable and I believe will be for HD will be a hard sell.
@@firefighter1c57 A sub brand is a great idea, but they would also need an alternate retail channel. Harley dealers aren't interested in selling beginner bikes, unless they can figure out a way to ask 20k for them. On another issue the Buell Blast was unmitigated crap. Erik Buell hated it so much that he crushed one, and posted the video on TH-cam. If the guy that makes the bike thinks it's a POS, he's probably right. However, for those folks that want Harley DNA . . . .
@@martymcfly1776 Erik didn't crush a Buell Blast, he crushed all of the 2010 models. Yes, he absolutely hated the bike. Building it was forced upon him by HD to have a beginner bike in the dealership. Erik spent so much HD money on R&D, that Harley actually lost money on every Blast sold. Shortly before that, HD had tanked what was supposed to be the Buell liquid cooled engine. The engine that ended up in the VRod. Buell brought the engine to HD and said tada, and HD got pissed because it didn't look Harley enough. So, they sent Harley engineers over to Porsche with the engine, reworked it, it gained 40lbs and lost 12 horsepower... Erik worked around that by building the Blast engine. It is essentially the Thunderstorm engine without the rear cylinder. So, Erik got an engine that was improved over the Sportster engine he'd been using even if it wasn't liquid cooled, at the expense of HD and having to build the Blast. Now, all of that said, the Blast was a decent beginner bike, because that is what it was, a beginner bike in the same realm as a Ninja 250, or Suzuki GS500...
@@firefighter1c57 The main point of it was that it was a poor effort. I was actually thinking of buying one at the time, but after I saw the video I thought yeah, antiquated motor, styling that could, kindly, be called quirky, poor finish quality. Then I thought "Yeah, that describes the entire Buell lineup!" I think the first law of marketing should be that you never diss your own product.
They need something reasonable to put noobs on. BUT, a parallel twin doesn't seem like the right heart for a Harley. A big thumping single would be closer to the v-twin heart. I'm ok with whoever makes it as long as that 15% premium is BECAUSE IT'S CURATED BY HD and not just a sticker.
I can't imagine why anyone would want to pay $1000 more for a rebadged Chinese manufactured bike just to get a Harley badge with it. It's not a Harley in any true sense despite the badge. It might be a good bike but if the original is $1000 cheaper you'd be crazy not to buy the original.
I don't really care where a bike is made, but when you compare this attempt at a beginner bike to Triumph's new 400 series, HD's laziness is really galling. Triumph actually bothered to design an entirely new engine and chassis. HD just plastered some orange paint, some stickers and a new fender onto an already cheap feeling Benelli Leoncino 500 and substantially upped the price. A pathetic effort
It woild make sence to sell these bikes here is they were made in Mexico or the States but to have a Chinese Harley at local American dealers woukd cause a complete freakout.
Harley does not want entry level motorcycles. They think they will be the next Rolex, and only want to sell premium bikes, which is why they have gutted their lower end bikes in each category. They however still want a slice of the 3rd world market, so they created the x500 to do it. Harley is utterly delusional if they think they can be the next Rolex. The bad boy image of old does not mix very well with the premium market. Plus companies like Rolex do not chase pennies in the sofa (chasing the 3rd world market) as that would damage their brand.
I am a HD owner and rider. I’ve owned 9 Harleys since 2007. Before 2007, I owned a variety of Japanese bikes back to 1987. So, 20 years on other stuff and now 16 years on Harley. As far as the X500 goes, I agree Harley needs a “gateway” bike for beginners. I agree that the X500 sort of makes sense if they are going to use X350’s to teach people on. However, it seems the X500 is a little underwhelming for a Harley. I wish they could step it up to at least a 650. I’d hate for these new riders to buy the 500 in March and be ready for a new bike by May. I mean, maybe that’s what Harley had in mind, but not everybody can afford to do that.
100% agree, Harley has ZERO beginners bikes and i frankly hope they get sued when the 1st person dies on the sportster 975 !! that the dealers are pushing , i'm an old biker in 1973 i bought an SX125 Harley which was a rebadged Italian Aermacchi and i owned 2 of them, and now i'm 64 and ride a Road King..........50 years of harley's because they had a starter bike, the dealers should be ashamed of them selves pushing high power bikes as beginners.........let the law suit begin
The likelihood of my buying an HD is next to zero.....until I wondered into the local motorcycle shop in central Australia and walked around an X350. I like it, though at 6'1" and over 100kgs I'd go for the 500. Neat looking machine.
From my experience, if HD brings out a Chinese made bike in the States they risk hurting their image with their existing customer base. Even if a lot of their existing customer base is spending $30k on their bikes to turn them into trikes. Or trading them in for Spyders. They people that want to start on a Harley will buy whatever they think looks cool, and is within their price range. If they were concerned with starting on a "beginner bike" there's a whole range from them to choose from. That doesn't involve taking away p much the only selling point of a HD.
@spitescorner the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and the squeaky wheel will be the Boomers complaining bout, "Mu Murican made" along with the Unions that represent the US Harley work force screaming, "Mu Jobs". The potential new rider that might buy a Harley as their first bike isn't going to fight those two groups about it.
Quite frankly, the deal breaker for me would be the fact it's a ChiCom product. I don't even care if it was made in another country, but a hard pass on commie anything if I can avoid it.
The problem is a lot of Rider coaches are fighting the 350 already. And will complain to everyone that will listen so they are not helping sell the bikes at all. But I really think they are upset its not a "real" harley. But makes one wonder if that will play into these bikes being sold down the road. I agree they need a real entry level bike.
A small tracker/scrambler would be perfect for young/beginner riders. I remember when any 14yr old with a Trail 90 was King of the World!!! A cheap 125 and 500 would be like handing out crack rocks.
They are using these in the US already for Training Academy at Harley dealers, my local dealer has a few. If it’s in the US it has to go through emissions inspection and approval. I don’t see them doing that only for the riding academy, this bike will release.
First bike was a Ninja 400, then Nightster 975, the RH975 was a great step up for me and I’m considering a Low Rider ST. These beginner bikes are what HD needs to get people in the door and to get people buying. Love the brand and love the service (price on a lot of their products I question though)
I’ve actually picked one of these up last week from my local dealer in Australia and I’m going to say it was the best choice I’ve made. Have always wanted a HD and the price has always been prohibitively high compared to other bikes I own. Being AU$10k cheaper than the next HD offering was what finally made me pick one up.
I think HD could be being quite smart about this. Historically they’ve struggled with changing the brand in the states, so they have the opportunity to rebuild the brand abroad where they are a much smaller player. Use the foreign markets to build the new era HD whilst stateside it remains tried and true to traditional HD. As the brand changes and improves abroad, positive press filters back stateside and demand rises for the new era HD in its home market. They appear to be taking a leaf from the Ford playbook. F150’s in ‘merica whilst they built the widely praised Focus and Fiesta elsewhere (of course Ford have become stupid again and axed the hatchbacks chasing the SUV crowed)
Harley did that with the XR1200. It debuted in Europe and the US market clamored for it. It was finally brought and in typical HD fashion, it was denigrated by salesman and owners alike as a girls bike, or a beginners bike, did very poorly in sales, and disappeared after like 3 years. Hell, it was dead before the Indian FTR debuted to compete with it. Most sadly, a few dealers turned them into drag bikes after HD killed the VRod...
I upgraded to a used Harley Softail and it is Awesome, my wife comes with me on the weekends and loves being a passenger. She is comfortable and and loves being close to me.. Now that is my forever bike, but i want a low cheap bike for my commute to work. The softail is not good on the gas and i want it to last for decades, that bike if for me and my wife... I want a second bike that i can rack on the miles and gets good gas mileage. I would love to buy one of these as my second commuter bike, I am looking at a RE, Triumph, because they offer a commuter bike for around 5k... I do not want a lot of power and i want good gas mileage... They dropped the ball...
People tell me the Iron 883 is a great beginner HD, yet I found the ye olde Street 500 to be more beginner friendly. Shame the 500 is gone. Why give a heavy 883 to a beginner???
EXACTLY 💯.🤷 Not to mention the chug-chug-chug power delivery and pulses and primary chain slack doesn't help anyone getting their toes wet for the first time with a motorcycle.
Harley owner who also rides a Ducati 959 on the weekends. Assuming the bike is built well, I’d absolutely buy one for my daughter. It had better be competitive in quality to other brands in the price category though.
It's my understanding that USA doesn't have, what we call, a LAMS system. There is not a licencing requirement to start on beginner bikes. Is this the case? If so you will never get the full suite of beginner bikes because they just won't sell the volume that these machines have to sell at to make money from low cost machines.
The USA doesn't control licensing, it is controlled by each state. Oklahoma has a 14 year old motorcycle license that when my daughter had her's limited to 250cc, can't ride on interstate highways, can't carry passengers, can't ride from 2100 to 0400, and maybe some more restrictions. Most states have something similar. However, at 16, all restrictions disappear.
It definitely should appear on the US market. If they were clever (and reading this comment!) it’ll be a good way of making a „back to the roots“ high-end version of a modernized Silent Grey Fellow. Note that they started with singles before moving onto V-twins and I am confident that an expensive Silent Grey Fellow version built on an X-500 platform would look kinda cool next to the more affordable 350‘s and 500‘s. Thanks for an excellent honest presentation, Big hugs from Düsseldorf Sher….
I look my MSF class on those X350's. If they released a X500 for a decent price I know a lot of people from the class were genuinely interested in it but what little information we did find on their website while hunting it was priced around $8.5K for the X350. They'd have to put that pricing on a 500 to probably garner any kind of interest in the bike as there are a lot better options out there for that price point.
I have had a few harley davidsons, great cruising motorcycles. The brand is already watered down. They are more worried about over priced clothes than motorcycles. I am not impressed the last year and bought a kawasaki this year.
I have 2 Harleys but I'm over it, I wouldn't buy a rebadged Benelli to get the HD branding. However, I'm sure many will buy in to get the bar and shield. In developing markets it's still an aspirational brand.
If this comes to fruition I will mount up on one of my too many Triumphs (or the XSR700) and darken my local Hog Merchant's doorsteep for the first time in over a decade. If for no other reason just to see if this bike is something I can recommend to others in good conscience. I think it's a smart move so long as they hit the mark with the MSRP. I think they need to either come in at or under Benelli's price or no more than $1500 over with a solid set of standard features above what the Leoncino ships with. They can't just have "Well it's a Harley" as their price justification. Not all prospective riders are going to know that this is a badge engineered motorcycle with a (most likely to be) cheaper cousin, but enough folks will know this that they should be prepared with solid counterarguments as to why you should choose their version. At the VERY least they can try to sell folks on the superior dealer network they have. But I really think they need to have some key improvements or up-spec parts on these bikes over the Benellis, and a healthy selection of upgrades/accessories in traditional Harley fashion. Spike I appreciate you covering this topic. Even as someone who probably won't ever consider purchasing one.
I think it will draw some new brand loyal riders. I also feel like people will play the its not a "real" harley if it isn't a Vtwin. either way, I bet they sell enough for it to make sense.
@@JCrozier1 You said it wasn't a Harley because it wasn't a v-twin. I consider the Livewire a Harley because they developed it. The x500 could be a big v-twin but if it's just a rebadged bike developed by another brand then it would still not be a Harley.
Because the X350 is heavily modified and restricted. IIRC it can't go above 30 miles an hour, and it's covered in all the crash stuff. Riding a bike in a parking lot doesn't tell you enough about the bike to be able to make an informed decision. You have to road test them
I have seen both the X350 and X500 in the showroom in AU. I have 2 HD’s.. FatBob made in USA and Sportster S made in Thailand. It’s a positive step forward for HD to colladorate with China to deliver a more affordable bike; however they are still at the higher end of the market in price. I am thinking about getting an X500 for a daily commuter but would only purchase used, as that would be more realistic costing for a Chinese bike.
I want HD to survive as a brand, and I enjoy the product that cane before. But without hyperbole, HD has not made a motorcycle in the last 10 years I would consider buying. My 91 FXRS is exactly what I want from a Harley. The closest I've come to being excited about a newer HD was the V-rod, but gaht-damn the thing is like an effing Indian. They want new prices for a used bike, and I simply will not pay 10k or more for a frigging bike. I paid $4,500 for the FXR & I feel that was a fair price. Brand new a bike should barely kiss the 9k range. Anything over that is paint huffing insanity. Long gone are the days where you could go down and the everyman could ride home on a new Harley without financing the cost of a kidney on the black market. And worse than anything, unless you are buying latest current thing, HD as a brand gives me a big fuck you when it comes to support for their past legacy. "Sorry you ride a 30 year old bike, loser! Buy a $50 t shirt and a $200 humidor!" Much like the bike I love, the HD I love is long gone.
That motorcycle won't be anywhere near 7k in any country that has a "high displacement" tax, environmental laws, and other import fees. In south America we'll be probably paying like 14k for it. For reference, in Uruguay and Argentina, a Leoncino 500 will set you back at least 11-12k.
I'm just not that into that style of bike or beginner bikes but I can see them doing alright with it here in Australia. Currently only seeing 1 listing for one for sale and its $11,495 which is a pretty keen price.
HD awakened to different kinds of riding with the Buell. Original bikes were wonderful. The Blast(!) not so much. Rider safety courses didn't sell too many, either.
Don’t live in the US. And love or hate it the x350 and x500 are already here. Harley have too much competition in Europe and since they dropped the old Evo Sportsters 883 the biggest selling entry level bike they have had a lot of problems attracting people to the new rev max $25K AUD nightster. Harley needs to sell bike and get new people in this should be a good start.
There's too many good (even great) bikes from the Asian market at that price or less already. HD can never compete with entry level bike prices. Listen up Harley: If u ever want my money, MAKE THE DAMN BRONX
If Harley has a single appropriately priced item ... a t-shirt , a bandanna, a motorcycle... anything.... any single thing.... their senior citizen customer base might question the ridiculous price structure.... I’m surprised they don’t have 9 dollar bottled water with the bar and shield at the dealers.
Don't give them ideas! Yes Harley likes to see high value products. That's why I don't see them selling beginner bikes - unless they can figure out a way to charge $20K for them.
They should have a bike like that, but sadly the dealers sales people and other riders set everything deferent up for failure by demining it . I personally dont want a super heavy ill handling bike but the Harley mentality is if it isnt a 1000lb bagger it aint a real bike. I have a Harley now but honestly will likely trade it for a Triumph or a Ducati . If people want there beloved brand to survive they need to welcome the new riders and be supportive not down them just a thought
Would much rather see the the Indian made 440x not a fan of China. Worker rights and humanitarian issues are less with Indian companies with not much price difference.
Van Driessen - if you had to start out your motorcycling career again from scratch and had to pick between this and the Triumph Scrambler 400 X, which would you pick, and why?
If the X500 doesn’t make it to the US Harley is gonna miss out on aaaalot of money! Because if you start on an beginner bike in one brand you’re more likely to upgrade in the same brand. And from the X500 to the Nightster is a great step👌🏾
They made a promise years back that every HD sold in America, would be built in America. The new sportster is too much power for a new rider. The old 883 was perfect for a new rider.
The problem is that harley's whole identity is based around their vtwin engines, and these have parallel twins. Triumph I feel is doing a better job at it, the 400's may be thumpers, but they absolutely nail the aesthetic and fit right in with the bigger speed twin/scrambler visually, and triumph did build singles back in their glory days. Then ofcourse, they have the Trident that also acts as a good entry point for riders who aren't limited to an A2 license. The best entry level harley would be something similar to the Super Meteor 650 in style and displacement, but with that classic harley vtwin engine. Sell it at a similar pricepoint as the triumph 900's / moto guzzi v7 and it would sell like hot cakes.
They started with Singles. V twins came after. I wouldn't mind they doing a big thumper like KTM at 700cc or more by using one jug and head off the the M8 114 OR off the 1250 Revolution Max engine for modularity and amortization of production costs. Just throwing 💩at the wall and seeing what sticks. 😁
I Hate any Chinese made motorcycle coming to the USA. If it was made in India or just about anywhere else in the world, I wouldn't care. China is an automatic no for me. And, my reason is based on politics. I really wish Harley could have optioned something like the Meteor or Super Meteor from Royal Enfield. IMO, both of those would have made better entry level motorcycles.
@@dracphelan What the American media said about China is as full of shit as what Chinese media said about US, most of them were fake.I lived in both countries long enough, seen many things myself, and seeing the peoples being dumb enough to trust the media is funny. Even if there are political bullshit involved in qjmotor, business is still about giving money and getting product, no other questions asked
I want to see a beginner Harley and if this is how it starts that's okay with me. A simple rebadge from another brand isn't ideal to me but it's a start. I'd be more interested if it was a bespoke Harley bike from the ground up, even if it was manufactured elsewhere.
Yeah, and no thanks. I'm an experienced rider and have been looking for a lower cc runabout. I think I'll give my money to Triumph for a Speed 400 or, more likely, a 400X.
Let me know your thoughts! Do you want to see the X500 in the states? How much would you pay for it?
It doesn't make sense at almost 8k. It's too similar to a trident or a cb650r or an fz07. I get that there is a Harley tax, but those other bikes are competitively priced and featured. Especially initially there won't be many options for 3rd party customization which is a big deal in American Harley culture.
Id like to see more motorbike riding content, this is becoming more of a "news" and "talking head" channel... :(
I would think so, I'm still in shock that after your admitted love for harley, you ended up with a triumph. I could have pictured you with a street bob or heritage classic. that seems your style. either way, I enjoyed my street 500 for my MSF course, but wouldn't want one, it did change my mind on cruisers though. I am going to be getting a harley soon.
Just to nitpick: 16.2% increase from a Leo to get a HD, not 14%.
I think it would be cool to have it here but knowing HD it would probably be overpriced.
Australian & not a Harley fan here. I've been following the news on the Harley Davidson X bikes since they were announced because they are the first Harley's I've genuinely been interested in. And when they said they were coming to Australia in January I immediately looked up where my local Harley dealer is. And then I saw the price. Yeesh! For the same money for the 500 I could get the Benelli, an exhaust & tune, an orange vinyl wrap & some Harley stickers & most people wouldn't know the difference. I'd probably also have some money left over to cover insurance too.
I'm still going to visit a Harley dealer for the first time ever, but I'll be looking at the X 350, not the X 500. And they'll have to work really hard to talk me out of my money.
Update:
Triumph have just announced pricing on their new 400's. The Speed 400 is $8,990 AUD & the Scrambler 400 X is $9,990 AUD, right between the X 350's $8,495 AUD & the X 500's $11,495 AUD pricing. I guess I'll be going to the Triumph dealer in January instead.
Thanks for the comment. That highlights the problem very well. It is not an easy market to compete in with a lot of great competitors which is probably the reason why Harley is reluctant to do it. Pricing is key and HD never did a good job in comprehensible and competetive pricing. With the exception of the PanAm. So probability is high that Harley is burning a lot of money by trying to enter the beginners market because they are pricing themselves out of the market...
Good choice
In Oz , when I went to the HD dealership to inquire about the HD X440 (an Indian ,Hero , made single) , the Chinese parra. twins had just arrived . The sales team seemed completely unimpressed with the prospect of having to sell them.
They need it in their line up.
They have nothing remotely close to an affordable entry level bike to give people a reason to walk in the showroom floor.
But not at Harley-Davidson prices.
It just won't happen if they try to get greedy with the MSRP.
Specially as soon as people catch wind of it's origin.
Do you see Lamborghini or Rolls Royce making cheap cars for the poor? No.
Harley aint doing it either.
If you don't got pockets! go buy an Indian Scout Bobber 😂
I personally believe it would be a good idea to have a “beginner friendly” Harley on the showroom floor. The biggest problem is when you look at what happened with the Buell blast and later the HD Street 500.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my Harley’s. But the first 4 years I spent on my XL1200C I got the question “how’s it like riding a girls bike” to which my answer was always “unlike you’re 107 that’s in the shop again, it’s been great”. Basically the problem with buying into the world of Harley Davidson is the owners of Harley Davidson’s. Other Harley riders are going to call an X350/500 a toy or a kids bike which will probably turn a few people off. Once all the videos come out on “how it’s a Chinese Harley and not a real bike” people are going to move over to a company like….. Honda. Purchase a shiny new rebel 500 (which have been reviewed favourably and at a close price tag) and not be bothered of the fact that they “Don’t have a real Harley”
Benelli Leoncino - $6,799
Kawasaki Eliminator - $6,649
Honda Rebel 500 - $6,449
Is anyone buying this bike at it's current price if it was branded HD? At a ~14% markup of $7,750 just buy an SV650.
It gets worse. The SV650 is $505 AUD cheaper than the X 500 here in Australia.
In fact, for less than the X 500 you can also get a Honda CBR500R, CB500X, CRF300 Rally, CL500, CB500F, CMX500 or CMX500 S Edition or either the CFMOTO 700 CL-X Adventure or 800 NK Sport.
And Triumph have announced pricing on their new 400's. The Speed 400 is $8,990 AUD & the Scrambler 400 X is $9,990 AUD, right between the X 350's $8,495 AUD & the X 500's $11,495 AUD pricing.
I remember the badged Harley's from the 60's and 70's, those were never accepted as Harley's. I think Harley needs a smaller mid-sized bike for beginners and older riders downsizing but it needs to have Harley DNA. The market is there, just look how the Royal Enfield Classic 350 sells. I'm 66 and I've downsized from a big Harley to a Moto Guzzi V7 Special, I'd seriously consider adding a small Harley to my garage but it needs to be a real Harley.
They could always use half of M8 114 or Revolution Max 1250.
I was thinking a new 750cc V twin that is water cooled but looks air cooled like what Triumph did with their twins. Easier to get it to meet European emission standards with liquid cooling. Put in a slick 6 speed gear box and get the weight down to around 450 lbs. HD could style it however they want, a new Sportster or a standard bike like a Triumph Speed Twin. @@GIGABACHI
"Look at how the Royal Enfield Classic 350 sells." The Royal Enfield bikes are good looking. 'Same with the new Triumph 400s. These new "Harleys" are surprisingly ugly. Stay with your Guzzi V7.
Spite did a journalism for us! I would totally consider an X500 if the price was in line with other higher end bikes in that class. It probably doesn't need to be under $6,000 like a ninja... but it can't be 10k either IMO. I own 4 Japanese bikes including a metric cruiser. HD has nothing to offer that fits in my line up other than I get to say I have one... which is not really enough of a motivating factor to cause me get one.
500 is a sweet spot, enough power, less weight
Exactly .own a vstar for same reasons
I think the Chinese harleys look cool and all but im not sure what id do with it. Rebels, vulcans , royal Enfield work just fine for the smaller bike market.
And to your point, if Royal Enfield is selling a 350 for $4,500, Honda is selling a 300 for $5,000, and Triumph is selling a 400 for $5,500, Harley will attempt to sell a 350 that is at most the equivalent of one of those bikes, save for the Harley sticker on the tank, for $8,000.
I definitely agree that this would be a great way to lock in more riders into the HD shield. Specially if they're already taking the classes at a HD dealer on thise bikes, no new rider wants to spend a bunch of money on a "beginner" Harley to inevitably dump it soon after getting it.
If every HD part was 100% made in the US, i would see ppls argument about QC. but with other chinese brands like CF MOTO Starting to bring better proces and descent bikes, it would be a dumb idea not to try to increase market share with a more economical, beginner offering.
A Leoncino 500 clone...oh dear. Good luck with that. I owned one for a year, and very happily traded it in for a Yamaha Tracer 700 as soon as my husband decided to go for a Ténéré (we mostly ride together). My fancy screen did not work until the bike saw the shop three times, and the rear brake froze shortly after the 1000 km check.
As I modified the seat and got the see the seat shell - I was shocked. About the thickness of a yoghurt cup, it tore when I removed the staples (had to patch it with resin). Thusly I was really not interested what lurked beneath that seat.
Hopefully, Harley orders better quality. The devil is in the details, as they say.
But yes, it was a really handsome bike. Just was not curious to find out how long it would last.
Long time HD owner here. Yes HD really needs to bring both these sleds to the states. As you said Spite, there is no way a Sportster is a beginner ride. Stock it will try it's best to kill you. With better shocks and a swap of the front setup internals, it's a blast to ride. That said though, I would buy a 500 for a daily rider for work in no time flat, assuming a price that isn't somewhere in low earth orbit.
Eh. As someone who took their MSF course through a HD dealer, they had the x350 for our training bikes,
They are extremely uncomfortable, large seats, high seat heights, and not better than just getting a rebel or cb350/500r.
I wouldn’t buy one, honestly. Not when Honda does starter bikes better than anyone.
HD has their market and they still don’t seem interested in stretching out of it here in North America
$1000 extra for an HD sticker on the tank! So not worth it! I'd go buy the Leoncino and wrap the tank so its says Hardly Davidson lol!
I have said that too. Especially since I can get the bike new locally out the door for less than 6500.
I have a Pan Am and a Sport Glide. I was lucky enough to be an experienced rider and afford those in my 20s. I know my local dealer is struggling with the price of the bikes in the UK, and they have nothing to offer younger and new riders who they want to get into the brand since the Street and XL883 were discontinued. My local chapter is full of older people but nobody my age. Harley NEED to make this a world bike for their long term survival IMO.
Harley Davidson sells an X 440 in India. It's a 420 pound air-oil cooled under-square single. I don't know why they won't bring it to the USA. It would compete with the new Triumph Speed 400, Royal Enfield Hunter 350, KTM Duke 390, etc. The X 500 would also appeal to new riders. Liquid-cooled parallel twin. I think Harley is worried about its image. Beginner bikes from Harley would embarrass some traditional biker dudes. Harley markets image more than any other maker.
The Triumph and the KTM are MotoGP prototypes compared to that air cooled, weed wacker Indian 440.
The RE Hunter 350 it's more like it.
I have a Harley, it’s the 5th Harley I’ve owned. I’ve had everything from a Sportster to a Street Glide. I have very much soured on them and will never buy another Harley for as long as I live. I think if it came here, it would flop. The Triumph Speed 400 is going to be $5k and everyone seems blown away by it. So I expect them to be a hot seller in the states and not even just beginners. I’ve been riding close to a decade now and I’d trade my Softail for one tomorrow just to have a fun little bike to bop around on and ride to work occasionally so I don’t keep pouring the miles on my MT-09. So I’m excited to see that bike in person. For $5k it might just end up in my garage because that’s an awesome bike for that price.
Yeah, I also don't think HD will succeed on the beginners market because of the pricing. Too much competition who can produce better or similar bikes for a much lower price. And price is key for this market, not the batch.
Anything but a Harley,💯
Indicator on the electric bike looks like a carrot, when you see it you can't unsee it
I just passed my MSF course with harley. They had the x350 there for the students. It's an okay bike but I will say the seat was very uncomfortable for me, I'm 5'11" 180lbs, 32" in-seam. Other than that I had a blast learning on it. I believe they were downtuned for training class purposes as well.
Wish you had mentioned where you live . As in country .
@@garyhooper1820 USA, sorry.
Senior re entering motorcycling here , finished getting bike course last month. I looked at what Harley had , I bought a Cfmoto CL-X 700 , $6087.00 new out the door price . Why buy a bike that costs more and gives you less ?
i did my msf at HD and we had something similar i thought- i know the instructor said something about 350 when i asked. I remember thinking' why dont they sale these - theyve been trying to sell me but no way im spending that much on a bike for my first bike
Harley needs a USA beginner's bike but not if they are going to mark up a badged bike. They can gouge the buyers when they matriculate to the "real" Harleys. FWIW I basically grew up in a H-D shop, could get a discount on any bike I wanted. In HS I bought my first new Harley, an Italian made 125, followed by a 250 then a 350. Never bought a "real" Harley, Japanese motorcycles caught my eye and had way more bang for the buck. Never needed the ego boost that owning a real Harley offers.
I thought I saw a lot of negative comments about the x500 a few months back and thought I must be crazy because I like it, at least the looks and the idea coming to the US. I disagreed with the negative views of it. Totally agree with Spite on this and appreciate the work to talk about it.
A FB friend teaches beginning rider courses at his dealership and he has already said how much he wishes HD would bring that bike to the US, if only to use in the classes. It would be far and away much better as an option than anything else in the HD lineup, and that alone would help drive sales of the 500.
Expense and weight are not beginner friendly traits.
The X500 is not a bike for me, but they absolutely need something that’s beginner friendly in their lineup and this fits that bill. The issue I expect to see is that it will be slandered by old guard Harley riders as “not a real Harley” or a “chick bike” or a “non-American piece of junk”. That’s how that went down for the Street series. I don’t expect this to be any different, which would be a shame.
The Nightster S is a different model from the Sportster S. I owned a 22 for a year. When she wasn’t having issues she was a Hell of a bike. Faulty welds on the handle bar, starting issues, hand control malfunctions, and still stalled after having that all fix I sold her. Many true HD crowd dislike the new Nightster and Sportster. I agree price wise HD doesn’t have an entry bike. They tried with Buell. I agree with the sentiment that with it being built in China is not what HD needs a rebadged entry level bike that with the inverted forks and twin disc up front will sell at least 9-10k in a segment ruled by the Honda Rebel. The Rebel 500 se sells for 7. However Kawasaki jumped into the segment and their new Eliminator 451 I just picked up. Their top of the line se sell for 7200. Entry level 500 needs to be affordable and I believe will be for HD will be a hard sell.
I'm a 65 year young Australian guy and ride a 2020 Royal Enfield Classic 500 and am looking forward to having a 2023 X500 in the shed too.
It almost would make more sense for them to make a sub brand for Chinese made Harley's (like ford Lincoln and mercury)
That's not a bad idea. Kinda like Livewire for the electric bikes
Interesting... a sub brand you say... with an entry-level 500cc you say... I wonder if that would work... cough cough BUELL BLAST cough cough...
@@firefighter1c57 A sub brand is a great idea, but they would also need an alternate retail channel. Harley dealers aren't interested in selling beginner bikes, unless they can figure out a way to ask 20k for them.
On another issue the Buell Blast was unmitigated crap. Erik Buell hated it so much that he crushed one, and posted the video on TH-cam. If the guy that makes the bike thinks it's a POS, he's probably right. However, for those folks that want Harley DNA . . . .
@@martymcfly1776 Erik didn't crush a Buell Blast, he crushed all of the 2010 models. Yes, he absolutely hated the bike. Building it was forced upon him by HD to have a beginner bike in the dealership. Erik spent so much HD money on R&D, that Harley actually lost money on every Blast sold. Shortly before that, HD had tanked what was supposed to be the Buell liquid cooled engine. The engine that ended up in the VRod. Buell brought the engine to HD and said tada, and HD got pissed because it didn't look Harley enough. So, they sent Harley engineers over to Porsche with the engine, reworked it, it gained 40lbs and lost 12 horsepower... Erik worked around that by building the Blast engine. It is essentially the Thunderstorm engine without the rear cylinder. So, Erik got an engine that was improved over the Sportster engine he'd been using even if it wasn't liquid cooled, at the expense of HD and having to build the Blast.
Now, all of that said, the Blast was a decent beginner bike, because that is what it was, a beginner bike in the same realm as a Ninja 250, or Suzuki GS500...
@@firefighter1c57 The main point of it was that it was a poor effort. I was actually thinking of buying one at the time, but after I saw the video I thought yeah, antiquated motor, styling that could, kindly, be called quirky, poor finish quality. Then I thought "Yeah, that describes the entire Buell lineup!" I think the first law of marketing should be that you never diss your own product.
They need something reasonable to put noobs on. BUT, a parallel twin doesn't seem like the right heart for a Harley. A big thumping single would be closer to the v-twin heart. I'm ok with whoever makes it as long as that 15% premium is BECAUSE IT'S CURATED BY HD and not just a sticker.
I can't imagine why anyone would want to pay $1000 more for a rebadged Chinese manufactured bike just to get a Harley badge with it. It's not a Harley in any true sense despite the badge. It might be a good bike but if the original is $1000 cheaper you'd be crazy not to buy the original.
I can see someone who bought an X500 showing up to some group of Harley Riders and getting laughed at until he goes away.
Its call a national dealer network. That's why people will pay the hd increase. HD dealerships are common how common are benelli dealers?
I don't really care where a bike is made, but when you compare this attempt at a beginner bike to Triumph's new 400 series, HD's laziness is really galling. Triumph actually bothered to design an entirely new engine and chassis. HD just plastered some orange paint, some stickers and a new fender onto an already cheap feeling Benelli Leoncino 500 and substantially upped the price. A pathetic effort
It woild make sence to sell these bikes here is they were made in Mexico or the States but to have a Chinese Harley at local American dealers woukd cause a complete freakout.
Harley does not want entry level motorcycles. They think they will be the next Rolex, and only want to sell premium bikes, which is why they have gutted their lower end bikes in each category. They however still want a slice of the 3rd world market, so they created the x500 to do it.
Harley is utterly delusional if they think they can be the next Rolex. The bad boy image of old does not mix very well with the premium market. Plus companies like Rolex do not chase pennies in the sofa (chasing the 3rd world market) as that would damage their brand.
I am a HD owner and rider. I’ve owned 9 Harleys since 2007. Before 2007, I owned a variety of Japanese bikes back to 1987. So, 20 years on other stuff and now 16 years on Harley. As far as the X500 goes, I agree Harley needs a “gateway” bike for beginners. I agree that the X500 sort of makes sense if they are going to use X350’s to teach people on. However, it seems the X500 is a little underwhelming for a Harley. I wish they could step it up to at least a 650. I’d hate for these new riders to buy the 500 in March and be ready for a new bike by May. I mean, maybe that’s what Harley had in mind, but not everybody can afford to do that.
H-D shouldn't contaminate their company with affordable motorcycles.
...WOW....just WOW. 😮
100% agree, Harley has ZERO beginners bikes and i frankly hope they get sued when the 1st person dies on the sportster 975 !! that the dealers are pushing , i'm an old biker in 1973 i bought an SX125 Harley which was a rebadged Italian Aermacchi and i owned 2 of them, and now i'm 64 and ride a Road King..........50 years of harley's because they had a starter bike, the dealers should be ashamed of them selves pushing high power bikes as beginners.........let the law suit begin
I hope HD would make a in house small CC bike, but I doubt it. I guess HD is afraid their fanboys will think any small bike is not a real motorcycle.
The likelihood of my buying an HD is next to zero.....until I wondered into the local motorcycle shop in central Australia and walked around an X350. I like it, though at 6'1" and over 100kgs I'd go for the 500. Neat looking machine.
From my experience, if HD brings out a Chinese made bike in the States they risk hurting their image with their existing customer base. Even if a lot of their existing customer base is spending $30k on their bikes to turn them into trikes. Or trading them in for Spyders. They people that want to start on a Harley will buy whatever they think looks cool, and is within their price range. If they were concerned with starting on a "beginner bike" there's a whole range from them to choose from. That doesn't involve taking away p much the only selling point of a HD.
They need to think beyond the existing riders imo
@spitescorner the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and the squeaky wheel will be the Boomers complaining bout, "Mu Murican made" along with the Unions that represent the US Harley work force screaming, "Mu Jobs". The potential new rider that might buy a Harley as their first bike isn't going to fight those two groups about it.
Quite frankly, the deal breaker for me would be the fact it's a ChiCom product. I don't even care if it was made in another country, but a hard pass on commie anything if I can avoid it.
The problem is a lot of Rider coaches are fighting the 350 already. And will complain to everyone that will listen so they are not helping sell the bikes at all. But I really think they are upset its not a "real" harley. But makes one wonder if that will play into these bikes being sold down the road. I agree they need a real entry level bike.
A small tracker/scrambler would be perfect for young/beginner riders. I remember when any 14yr old with a Trail 90 was King of the World!!! A cheap 125 and 500 would be like handing out crack rocks.
Can't have the Triglide owner with one foot in the grave and the other in the nursing home getting angry after all
ROTFLMAO.
OH, THAT WAS GREAT !
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 That's why I love the comments section ! 👌😁👍
They are using these in the US already for Training Academy at Harley dealers, my local dealer has a few. If it’s in the US it has to go through emissions inspection and approval. I don’t see them doing that only for the riding academy, this bike will release.
First bike was a Ninja 400, then Nightster 975, the RH975 was a great step up for me and I’m considering a Low Rider ST. These beginner bikes are what HD needs to get people in the door and to get people buying. Love the brand and love the service (price on a lot of their products I question though)
I’ve actually picked one of these up last week from my local dealer in Australia and I’m going to say it was the best choice I’ve made. Have always wanted a HD and the price has always been prohibitively high compared to other bikes I own. Being AU$10k cheaper than the next HD offering was what finally made me pick one up.
I think HD could be being quite smart about this. Historically they’ve struggled with changing the brand in the states, so they have the opportunity to rebuild the brand abroad where they are a much smaller player. Use the foreign markets to build the new era HD whilst stateside it remains tried and true to traditional HD. As the brand changes and improves abroad, positive press filters back stateside and demand rises for the new era HD in its home market. They appear to be taking a leaf from the Ford playbook. F150’s in ‘merica whilst they built the widely praised Focus and Fiesta elsewhere (of course Ford have become stupid again and axed the hatchbacks chasing the SUV crowed)
Harley did that with the XR1200. It debuted in Europe and the US market clamored for it. It was finally brought and in typical HD fashion, it was denigrated by salesman and owners alike as a girls bike, or a beginners bike, did very poorly in sales, and disappeared after like 3 years. Hell, it was dead before the Indian FTR debuted to compete with it. Most sadly, a few dealers turned them into drag bikes after HD killed the VRod...
Harley has also partnered with Hero of India on the X440. I think an India-built Harley would receive a more positive response in the USA.
🤔
The 440 it's a Weed Wacker grade motorcycle.
Even more disposable than this 500.
But that's just what I think.
I upgraded to a used Harley Softail and it is Awesome, my wife comes with me on the weekends and loves being a passenger. She is comfortable and and loves being close to me.. Now that is my forever bike, but i want a low cheap bike for my commute to work. The softail is not good on the gas and i want it to last for decades, that bike if for me and my wife... I want a second bike that i can rack on the miles and gets good gas mileage. I would love to buy one of these as my second commuter bike, I am looking at a RE, Triumph, because they offer a commuter bike for around 5k... I do not want a lot of power and i want good gas mileage... They dropped the ball...
if it comes to the states it will be 10k. If the moco doesnt jack the price up the dealers will
People tell me the Iron 883 is a great beginner HD, yet I found the ye olde Street 500 to be more beginner friendly. Shame the 500 is gone.
Why give a heavy 883 to a beginner???
EXACTLY 💯.🤷
Not to mention the chug-chug-chug power delivery and pulses and primary chain slack doesn't help anyone getting their toes wet for the first time with a motorcycle.
I was just wondering what tf happened to these small HD and this is the first video that comes up, thank you!
They should bring this out, more options is a good thing.
Harley owner who also rides a Ducati 959 on the weekends. Assuming the bike is built well, I’d absolutely buy one for my daughter. It had better be competitive in quality to other brands in the price category though.
It's my understanding that USA doesn't have, what we call, a LAMS system. There is not a licencing requirement to start on beginner bikes. Is this the case? If so you will never get the full suite of beginner bikes because they just won't sell the volume that these machines have to sell at to make money from low cost machines.
No displacement licensing in USA like Europe. A 16 year old who has his licence for one day can purchase a 1000cc sport bike...an then wreck it!
The USA doesn't control licensing, it is controlled by each state. Oklahoma has a 14 year old motorcycle license that when my daughter had her's limited to 250cc, can't ride on interstate highways, can't carry passengers, can't ride from 2100 to 0400, and maybe some more restrictions. Most states have something similar. However, at 16, all restrictions disappear.
They where not meant for the western markets. HD is trying to open up markets they are not currently in. Lets be honest, they need new markets.
It definitely should appear on the US market. If they were clever (and reading this comment!) it’ll be a good way of making a „back to the roots“ high-end version of a modernized Silent Grey Fellow.
Note that they started with singles before moving onto V-twins and I am confident that an expensive Silent Grey Fellow version built on an X-500 platform would look kinda cool next to the more affordable 350‘s and 500‘s.
Thanks for an excellent honest presentation,
Big hugs from Düsseldorf
Sher….
I look my MSF class on those X350's. If they released a X500 for a decent price I know a lot of people from the class were genuinely interested in it but what little information we did find on their website while hunting it was priced around $8.5K for the X350. They'd have to put that pricing on a 500 to probably garner any kind of interest in the bike as there are a lot better options out there for that price point.
The X500 won't come to the US just like they said, they'll just badge it differently so they technically aren't lying, lol.
I have had a few harley davidsons, great cruising motorcycles.
The brand is already watered down. They are more worried about over priced clothes than motorcycles.
I am not impressed the last year and bought a kawasaki this year.
I have 2 Harleys but I'm over it, I wouldn't buy a rebadged Benelli to get the HD branding. However, I'm sure many will buy in to get the bar and shield. In developing markets it's still an aspirational brand.
If this comes to fruition I will mount up on one of my too many Triumphs (or the XSR700) and darken my local Hog Merchant's doorsteep for the first time in over a decade. If for no other reason just to see if this bike is something I can recommend to others in good conscience. I think it's a smart move so long as they hit the mark with the MSRP. I think they need to either come in at or under Benelli's price or no more than $1500 over with a solid set of standard features above what the Leoncino ships with. They can't just have "Well it's a Harley" as their price justification. Not all prospective riders are going to know that this is a badge engineered motorcycle with a (most likely to be) cheaper cousin, but enough folks will know this that they should be prepared with solid counterarguments as to why you should choose their version. At the VERY least they can try to sell folks on the superior dealer network they have. But I really think they need to have some key improvements or up-spec parts on these bikes over the Benellis, and a healthy selection of upgrades/accessories in traditional Harley fashion.
Spike I appreciate you covering this topic. Even as someone who probably won't ever consider purchasing one.
The good news is... They already are in the USA! It's a Benelli Leoncino 500.
True lmao
I wish the Benelli Leoncino 800 was sold here.
Thanks for sticking to motorcycle content. It's a great distraction from the news. Keep this coming! Love it!
We might be getting an X500. You're more than welcome to take it for a few days. One catch, you'll have to ride it in the New Zealand.
um, whereabouts in NZ? Thinking about one of these but it's a bit of a head scratcher...I'm in Dunedin
I think it will draw some new brand loyal riders. I also feel like people will play the its not a "real" harley if it isn't a Vtwin. either way, I bet they sell enough for it to make sense.
The only Harley thing about it is the badge so it isn't a real Harley.
@@nicerides9224 which is one of the two things I said above.
@@JCrozier1 You said it wasn't a Harley because it wasn't a v-twin. I consider the Livewire a Harley because they developed it. The x500 could be a big v-twin but if it's just a rebadged bike developed by another brand then it would still not be a Harley.
Spite i am a rider coach why not take the course at a dealer nearby that has the 350 then revisit
Because the X350 is heavily modified and restricted. IIRC it can't go above 30 miles an hour, and it's covered in all the crash stuff. Riding a bike in a parking lot doesn't tell you enough about the bike to be able to make an informed decision. You have to road test them
I'll just be here struggling to get my 20y/o Yamaha cruiser running and wishing I could afford something new
Spite always love the show but quit the constant music irritating. Thnx !!
I have seen both the X350 and X500 in the showroom in AU. I have 2 HD’s.. FatBob made in USA and Sportster S made in Thailand. It’s a positive step forward for HD to colladorate with China to deliver a more affordable bike; however they are still at the higher end of the market in price. I am thinking about getting an X500 for a daily commuter but would only purchase used, as that would be more realistic costing for a Chinese bike.
from Australia 🇦🇺 love the kangaroo 🦘coins 💰 reference 👍🏻 🤣
I want HD to survive as a brand, and I enjoy the product that cane before. But without hyperbole, HD has not made a motorcycle in the last 10 years I would consider buying. My 91 FXRS is exactly what I want from a Harley. The closest I've come to being excited about a newer HD was the V-rod, but gaht-damn the thing is like an effing Indian. They want new prices for a used bike, and I simply will not pay 10k or more for a frigging bike. I paid $4,500 for the FXR & I feel that was a fair price. Brand new a bike should barely kiss the 9k range. Anything over that is paint huffing insanity. Long gone are the days where you could go down and the everyman could ride home on a new Harley without financing the cost of a kidney on the black market. And worse than anything, unless you are buying latest current thing, HD as a brand gives me a big fuck you when it comes to support for their past legacy. "Sorry you ride a 30 year old bike, loser! Buy a $50 t shirt and a $200 humidor!" Much like the bike I love, the HD I love is long gone.
I would like to see the competition levels of the 70's - 80's era. Maybe honda can bring back the nighthawk with its beautiful inline 4
That motorcycle won't be anywhere near 7k in any country that has a "high displacement" tax, environmental laws, and other import fees. In south America we'll be probably paying like 14k for it. For reference, in Uruguay and Argentina, a Leoncino 500 will set you back at least 11-12k.
The biggest issue i can see, the seat height. It needs to be at sportster level to get into the Honda Rebel, starter bike market.
I'm just not that into that style of bike or beginner bikes but I can see them doing alright with it here in Australia. Currently only seeing 1 listing for one for sale and its $11,495 which is a pretty keen price.
if that's the bike in grey then it looks lovely, it may be grey but it isn't the usual HD elephant
As long as they don't screw up the price, I think a 500cc harley would be an excellent option to entice beginners into the lifestyle.
HD awakened to different kinds of riding with the Buell. Original bikes were wonderful. The Blast(!) not so much. Rider safety courses didn't sell too many, either.
Too bad HD threw Buell away.
Don’t live in the US. And love or hate it the x350 and x500 are already here. Harley have too much competition in Europe and since they dropped the old Evo Sportsters 883 the biggest selling entry level bike they have had a lot of problems attracting people to the new rev max $25K AUD nightster. Harley needs to sell bike and get new people in this should be a good start.
There's too many good (even great) bikes from the Asian market at that price or less already. HD can never compete with entry level bike prices. Listen up Harley:
If u ever want my money, MAKE THE DAMN BRONX
HD needs to bring this bike to the USA… fo sho. Good video buddy. 🤙
I think it's more likely we see a full fledged HD beginner bike produced in the USA than these Chinese HDs. Maybe a XR750 type bike with about 70 hp.
If Harley has a single appropriately priced item ... a t-shirt , a bandanna, a motorcycle... anything.... any single thing.... their senior citizen customer base might question the ridiculous price structure.... I’m surprised they don’t have 9 dollar bottled water with the bar and shield at the dealers.
Don't give them ideas! Yes Harley likes to see high value products. That's why I don't see them selling beginner bikes - unless they can figure out a way to charge $20K for them.
They should have a bike like that, but sadly the dealers sales people and other riders set everything deferent up for failure by demining it . I personally dont want a super heavy ill handling bike but the Harley mentality is if it isnt a 1000lb bagger it aint a real bike. I have a Harley now but honestly will likely trade it for a Triumph or a Ducati . If people want there beloved brand to survive they need to welcome the new riders and be supportive not down them just a thought
Would much rather see the the Indian made 440x not a fan of China. Worker rights and humanitarian issues are less with Indian companies with not much price difference.
If the only thing HD is the badge then that's weak and lazy of HD
I wish HD goes bankrupt for this crime!
Van Driessen - if you had to start out your motorcycling career again from scratch and had to pick between this and the Triumph Scrambler 400 X, which would you pick, and why?
If the X500 doesn’t make it to the US Harley is gonna miss out on aaaalot of money! Because if you start on an beginner bike in one brand you’re more likely to upgrade in the same brand. And from the X500 to the Nightster is a great step👌🏾
They made a promise years back that every HD sold in America, would be built in America. The new sportster is too much power for a new rider. The old 883 was perfect for a new rider.
The India exclusive Harley X440 is more authentic Harley as it was developed from ground up by Harley and Hero Moto Corp together.
There are so many HD dealerships that it would make more interested in trying one since I feel like I could get support easier.
The problem is that harley's whole identity is based around their vtwin engines, and these have parallel twins.
Triumph I feel is doing a better job at it, the 400's may be thumpers, but they absolutely nail the aesthetic and fit right in with the bigger speed twin/scrambler visually, and triumph did build singles back in their glory days.
Then ofcourse, they have the Trident that also acts as a good entry point for riders who aren't limited to an A2 license.
The best entry level harley would be something similar to the Super Meteor 650 in style and displacement, but with that classic harley vtwin engine. Sell it at a similar pricepoint as the triumph 900's / moto guzzi v7 and it would sell like hot cakes.
They started with Singles.
V twins came after.
I wouldn't mind they doing a big thumper like KTM at 700cc or more by using one jug and head off the the M8 114 OR off the 1250 Revolution Max engine for modularity and amortization of production costs.
Just throwing 💩at the wall and seeing what sticks. 😁
@@GIGABACHI that's true, and a thumper styled similarly to say, a Janus would be awesome to see. Really harken back to the beginning of HD
I Hate any Chinese made motorcycle coming to the USA. If it was made in India or just about anywhere else in the world, I wouldn't care. China is an automatic no for me. And, my reason is based on politics.
I really wish Harley could have optioned something like the Meteor or Super Meteor from Royal Enfield. IMO, both of those would have made better entry level motorcycles.
so buying a motorcycle from a country that the media doesn't tell u to hate is fine
@@ryth-2401 No. Buying from countries that do not have literal concentration camps is fine.
@@dracphelan What the American media said about China is as full of shit as what Chinese media said about US, most of them were fake.I lived in both countries long enough, seen many things myself, and seeing the peoples being dumb enough to trust the media is funny. Even if there are political bullshit involved in qjmotor, business is still about giving money and getting product, no other questions asked
"Pecunia non olet"
Still true to these days.
Harley’s worse mistake not selling this bike. I learned in one of them and it’s awesome. That’s the bike for new riders.
HD are worried that the new smaller bike will eat into their large bike sales.
I want to see a beginner Harley and if this is how it starts that's okay with me. A simple rebadge from another brand isn't ideal to me but it's a start. I'd be more interested if it was a bespoke Harley bike from the ground up, even if it was manufactured elsewhere.
I totally agree, but the R&D on a new platform would be super expensive. Hopefully this is a stepping stone, but I guess we'll see.
I don’t think they’re going to ever cross their core customer base who want nothing but the Glide series.
Yeah, and no thanks. I'm an experienced rider and have been looking for a lower cc runabout. I think I'll give my money to Triumph for a Speed 400 or, more likely, a 400X.
A 500-600cc begginer cruiser harley would crack the market, meanwhile honda, kawasaki, royal enfield and others are getting the advantage here