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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2024
- We as a community often talk about the difficulty of fighting games. I’m sure lots of you had the experience of telling your friends about fighting games, and having to reassure them that it’s not as hard as it seems.
A lot of it is true. Many fears are exaggerated, and many pain points don’t even exist on the beginner to intermediate level. But fighting games could still be better in one key way, teaching you how to play.
That’s what we will be talking about in today’s video!
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In your opinion, which fighting game is the best at teaching players, and felt most intuitive to play?
Current Street fighter 6 game mechanics tutorial, each characters tutorials and their combo routes tutorials are blessing for new commers.
@@illiahryhorak5860 Also, I know a lot of people like to trash talk world tour mode, but it does a *lot* right for on-boarding new players. Mini-games that teach inputs outside of a combat situation, enemies that encourage you to learn to anti-air or block and punish... it sucks that it's directly tied to the world tour avatar so you don't get a lot of experience actually playing a character, but it's a start.
@@kevingriffith6011 I actually liked world tour, got more characters bio, and I knew after it, which characters I`ll prefer to use.
@@illiahryhorak5860 I like world tour as well! The story itself isn't *great* (Although I wouldn't be surprised if we got more world tour story mode coming in the future) but unlike almost every other fighting game on the market... it's several hours of single-player content for casual fans who aren't interested in PvP, and that's huge. The character work is great and helps flesh out the cast and tell us who they are when they aren't fighting, which is also excellent.
Guilty Gear Xrd.
31 years old and didn't really get into fighting games until I was about 26 or 27 years old and really wish I had sooner but this whole stigma you talk about is part of why. I always saw myself as a hardcore gamer with casual skill level and didn't want to try and learn a game that I thought took an immense amount of skill as I was always way too quick to rage at games. Then my buddy started playing Marvel 2 and CVS2 on his old Dreamcast setup and we had so much fun one night that I tried SFV and Tekken 7 and have been addicted to the genre ever since. All it took was the right time and perspective (Since I don't rage as much as I used to as well lol).
This story strongly resonates with me. I really got into it at 28 with Dragonball FighterZ, which is arguably a pretty bad game to learn classical, more grounded fighting games like Street Fighter. But it sparked something in me. Now I am 800+ hours deep into Street Fighter VI, and I still learn things and enjoy it. Being older and more calm makes these games easier, since you can view losses as a learning experience. And the reward from becoming better is so great.
That Bomberman Hero soundtrack tho. Chefs kiss.
Defence is also an essential part of fighting games that way you become a better player and not make too many mistakes
Devs can definitely do better but new players just need to start playing ANYTHING (arcade, cpu, ranked, training, whatever) and learning everything they can. If they expect the devs to do everything for them, they are not cut out to play fighting games at a high level. Sure, some games are more intuitive but at the end of the day, fighting games require an immense time investment just like any other hobby.
I think your missing the forest for the trees here.
KOFXV is oddly satisfying in terms of self learning - any decent player will absolutely roll you until you think to yourself how to stop getting hit - you’ll just be berated continuously and the answers to your questions are easy. Learning what your character is good and bad at - and how that works as a team composition - but mostly, learning to play to defend yourself (even with offense) and not playing not to lose.
Accepting that there will be a winner and a loser - means you have to be happy to play to see yourself improve.
My goal has been to kill 1 character minimum per play session - I EVENTUALLY won my first 2 ranked games - but it wouldn’t have been without being hit A LOT and learning to hit back.
I think a really good tool would be to add a small questionaire on your first boot into the game, asking what your expectations are for the game (if you want to mainly play single player or if you're heading for online play) and then direct you to the appropriate things. On your first time heading into the online mode it should direct you to the advanced tutorials or something like that. But yeah, also make them better, perhaps with collabs with actual content creators who actually are good at explaining things. Some developers do it on their YT channels, right before the game comes out or a new character comes out, but I feel the game should direct you to those videos, newer players won't know they even exist, and they're the target audience
I believe Sf6 world tour is a great way to teach me to play. Unfortunately, it can only be played using avatar character, which is useless in multiplayer
I'm definitely for more training tools, but at the end of the day you can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
A lot of people are just unwilling to put in the time to really learn these games and no amount of comprehensive tutorials or onboarding will fix that. No matter how comprehensive the in-game tools (which I'm not saying aren't good things to add regardless), you do have to do some amount of "homework" to really maximize your enjoyment of these games and some people do not like that on a fundamental level (hence why the term "tryhard" is often used as a prejorative).
Just pulling off simple combos with certain characters is just BEYOND ridiculous
And the explanation for certain move sets has me like 🤷🤦
If fighting game has great learning mode, most people will ignore it because they don't want to learn, they want to play.
And then they'll whine about how they got slammed online.
Today I started playing The legend of heroes trails in sky. Then at the start video I heard the game battle music. I though my game was on 😂
Fighting games need a system that actively gives the player feedback, highlighting both what they did right and what they need to do to improve.
I dont know how feasible something like that is. There needs to be a fair degree of nuance. Ie. good job punishin your opponent's wake up DP with a throw. Next time, try this combo for bigger damage. Want to practice now? Then you click yes and youre off to training mode.
Tekken 8 has that feature in replay mode.
Fighting games need to focus on single player and co op. Online competitive scene sucks and will never work 1:1 for most people. Tekken Force mode or the story modes of SC3 were good examples. MK Deception also had that chess mode which was fun. There’s more ways to expand fighting games. Brawler co op is the direction I think they should head.
Fg devs want (naturally) to grow the franchise in sales, player base, and reach outside the circle of the average fandom, and that's fine... But there's no good effort put in introducing the game. The fact is that it's not a welcoming genre at all.
So their default solution in the latest generations became: simplify the system, simplify moves, simple control mode, and boost up the offense power. And outside gameplay: spending a lot of money in story mode and flashy cinematic supers to be more attractive to outsiders.
But first the devs should invest seriously in improving the teaching methods, which is lacking in the games. If that aspect was well done and worked well, maybe a few "pro casual" features in the latest fg releases would not be needed at all. But for some reason the devs don't care about putting effort into that area. In that case, those solutions mentioned above become a logical outcome, for the purpose of growing the franchise.
This is what the purpose of a story mode should be in fighting games. Both to convey the story of the game and teach players how to play it. Street Fighter 6's World Tour mode is a really good skeleton for this sort of thing: Mini-games like Hado Pizza challenge players (even modern ones) to perform motion inputs outside the context of the fight, using enemies that have specific habits like jumping a lot or doing very obviously unsafe moves to teach players to anti-air and block/punish. It isn't perfect, of course, the fact that it's tied to your world tour avatar means that you aren't really learning a character that you can play online outside of the battle hub, but it *is* a start.
Well you can't just put a non fighting game in a fighting game and expect people to actually play it, let alone learn from it. Learning is hard and for nerds, and people just want to fulfill fantasy right now without putting much effort because they already purchased the game and because of thst they deserve fun. In fps and other multiplayer games with hugh skill ceiling there still are ways for bad players to get some cheap kills, to make them feel good about themselves, you can't really have that in 1v1 fighting game. If you bad at fightings you will not enjoy playing them and most likely won't get motivation to get better, unless you introduce a bunch a bullshit into a game that skill of a player becomes almost irrelevant like in SSB series.
Gotta gameify the teaching
do Dota or League teach the game properly though? I feel the problem with this argument is that fighting games are the only genre that people keep demanding this but other genres never have to even bother with good tutorials and it will still attract a massive playerbase.
1:10 if anything, fighting games require *trigger discipline* so that you dont get whiff punished/frame trapped all the time, something thats not emphasized in shooter games but very important in irl shooting
Hard disagree, fighting game tutorials are fine, arguably better than most games. The real issue is the breakpoint for what feels like success
1V1 PVP is inherently a winner take all setting. Even good players will take tons of L's. Throw in a bit of negativity bias and most players feel like they're doing bad even if they're doing average or even extremely well.
Other games have much more granular levels of success. You might not come in first for a whole session, but maybe you get third once or twice. Your team might of lost again but maybe you got the most kills this time. Fighting games aren't like this. When you're new, or even just rusty you'll lose. Unless you're playing a long set you're unlikely to even take a game.
You pretty much invalidated everything you said in the first paragraph. Fighting games have the worse tutorials ever.
@@baboon_baboon_baboon My point is that if the measure is success, we're not comparing apples to apples.
It doesn't matter how good the tutorial is, you're still going to take much harsher L's in a fighting game.
1:05 Shoryuken.