@@olliegazzard8279 For a datacenter it would be nice as if they used a servo like they have here it could stay within the footprint of the device. That and i believe the power button on the new mac mini is not soldered to the board so if they wanted to take the time to remove the bottom plate they can just tap/use the wires that go to the button for software control. no servo needed and no soldering needed.
@@olliegazzard8279 you just put them belly up. but I don't think they have that many power on/off needs in a data center. the issue here is about rack size.
I leased a mini for years from them when I was done they mailed my machine to me. Great service it was the cheapest way to get a unix server with 16gb of ram in the cloud at the time.
I just love these behind the scenes look with plenty of answered questions and in general just an awesome generosity of fascinating details! Genuinely, thank you! 🙏 Don’t really give a shit about Mac’s or specifically what’s running as long as it’s offering a really cool sneak peek into an operation and it’s interesting technical solutions I can’t help by being fascinated by it. 🙏👌🤓 🫶👋✌️🖖 Lastly, awesome questions btw 👏👏
When I was an intern at AWS I was shocked that they also use physical macs for their Mac VMs. I thought AWS of all people would have custom hardware. But no it’s all just consumer grade macs in a data center!
I'm surprised to see everything still in their retail cases. I thought they would have them stripped with raw boards on skeleton racks like you see in Bitcoin mines for density and cooling.
As impressive the effort of these DC guys is - it is at least as impressive how much resources are spent because Apple does not allow full virtualization of MacOS detached from hardware ...
No one wants to adapt mac server because its extremely proprietary and isnt cost efficient there is no money in it. Sadly this is E-waste on display a board with 4 socketed Xeons Would be way better and scale better than all of this
@ I see. So for datacenter admins, modularity and ability to customize these server machines are more important, rather than running MacOS and being on a beautiful aluminum server rack enclosure? Also do you think an M-series based server machines would improve this situation?
@@mancerrss they are controlling the way you handle drivers and they dont allow anyone other than certified venders to develop cards or even things like USB/KVM hub. Essentially what did is take open source design’s modified them closed them off then released a product in a server environment that would make thinks like discrete GPUs useless because apple closed off the ability for them to be installed or function at a hardware level.
Awesome DIY Mac mod servers! Those custom 3D printed enclosures or RPi KVM r very cool besides everything else!👍And now with the M4 Mac Minis it's gonna be even better.
I don't understand why Apple isn't capitalizing on the data center market. Apple silicon offers unbelievably low power consumption over performance, translating into massive energy savings.
@ It might, but will it be powered by MacOS and Apple Silicon hardware, or will they just go with what's already in commonly available? According to friends at Apple, they don't enforce "not invented here" philosophy when it comes to their own internal computing needs. Intel PCs are commonly used for business and engineering operations and their iCloud servers are hosted by Microsoft.
@@bobweiram6321 They have in fact said that they're using Apple Silicon! At least for the Apple Intelligence stuff. I don't know if I can post links, but there are two press releases from Apple, "Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud" and "Introducing Apple’s On-Device and Server Foundation Models" that go over it in a ton of detail. What I wouldn't give to see what these setups look like... lol
I wonder how much they would save on their energy bill, if they would use apple silicon Mac’s. And with m4 they could cut their rack size roughly to 50%.
Another interesting note: because of how power efficient the Apple Silicon Macs are they only use about 1/3 of the power available to them in each rack.
That is a well thought out solution with lots of details. Very impressive. Also a very knowledgeable manager and great presentation. This video didn't feel 23 minutes long, great pacing!
It's unfortunate that the Mac Pro's software restricts users to only two virtual machines per system... Just imagine the possibilities of a pure Mac Pro cluster!
3 to 5ms latency is not very impressive for Pure arrays. They can actually get consistent sub-millisecond latency. Maybe he meant 0.3 to 0.5ms latency?
Thrilled to see our RackSolutions products powering MacStadium’s state-of-the-art data center! 🙌 From HyperShelf thermal management to our exclusive Server Racks, it’s great to see how our solutions support their cutting-edge Apple infrastructure. Excited for the future of Apple cloud hosting!
I don't think they would want to make repairable devices these days. I'd never put up with an apple server if everything is soldered down or firmware locked to the machine. Granted IBM is doing well with their highly specialized machines that are heavily locked down.
With all my respect to the scale of these solutions, I cannot understand, why simply not use datacanter hardware and virtualize all of these resources.
Looks like a prototype. I'd hope they refine it a lot before mass deployment. They're going to have to revise it substantially with the new model Mini anyway.
That can’t be true about the size of their network and their “largest” claim. They have 4 spines, that’s very basic. I’ve worked at hyperscalers with 32 super spine switches, in a 7 stage CLOS network. The individual pods had 4 spines, and there were a dozen pods per datacenter. All links were 100G, even down to the servers and were starting to deploy 400G links
This guy is probably losing his mind over the new m4 Mac minis!!!
yeah right, good luck with the new power button location…
@@olliegazzard8279 For a datacenter it would be nice as if they used a servo like they have here it could stay within the footprint of the device. That and i believe the power button on the new mac mini is not soldered to the board so if they wanted to take the time to remove the bottom plate they can just tap/use the wires that go to the button for software control. no servo needed and no soldering needed.
@@olliegazzard8279 you just put them belly up. but I don't think they have that many power on/off needs in a data center. the issue here is about rack size.
@@olliegazzard8279 rofl if they can't solve that "problem" they aren't very good
They power cycle just need to control input power unless they need DFU
I leased a mini for years from them when I was done they mailed my machine to me. Great service it was the cheapest way to get a unix server with 16gb of ram in the cloud at the time.
So cool they sent you the machine!
@@ogbops a good way to cycle through old servers
All that work because apple won’t make a server (or allow installation on other hardware)
Awesome !
I just love these behind the scenes look with plenty of answered questions and in general just an awesome generosity of fascinating details!
Genuinely, thank you! 🙏 Don’t really give a shit about Mac’s or specifically what’s running as long as it’s offering a really cool sneak peek into an operation and it’s interesting technical solutions I can’t help by being fascinated by it. 🙏👌🤓
🫶👋✌️🖖
Lastly, awesome questions btw 👏👏
Surely it would make more sense to take them out of their housing and use zeer cooled racks?
When I was an intern at AWS I was shocked that they also use physical macs for their Mac VMs. I thought AWS of all people would have custom hardware. But no it’s all just consumer grade macs in a data center!
I have a theory that Apple moved the power button to the bottom to prevent macstadium from using this servo 😂
That would be exactly the sort of asshole move Apple would make.
I'm surprised to see everything still in their retail cases. I thought they would have them stripped with raw boards on skeleton racks like you see in Bitcoin mines for density and cooling.
these guys are behind the times
As impressive the effort of these DC guys is - it is at least as impressive how much resources are spent because Apple does not allow full virtualization of MacOS detached from hardware ...
Apple needs to bring back XServe and rename it as MacServe
No one wants to adapt mac server because its extremely proprietary and isnt cost efficient there is no money in it. Sadly this is E-waste on display a board with 4 socketed Xeons Would be way better and scale better than all of this
@ I see. So for datacenter admins, modularity and ability to customize these server machines are more important, rather than running MacOS and being on a beautiful aluminum server rack enclosure? Also do you think an M-series based server machines would improve this situation?
@@mancerrss they are controlling the way you handle drivers and they dont allow anyone other than certified venders to develop cards or even things like USB/KVM hub. Essentially what did is take open source design’s modified them closed them off then released a product in a server environment that would make thinks like discrete GPUs useless because apple closed off the ability for them to be installed or function at a hardware level.
A Mac Data center is insane. Just wow. Great work with this tour.
I think it's pretty boring compared to normal data centers.
@@mx338 Naa, I spend all day travelling to various data centres and they are all the same and pretty boring, never seen Macs racked like this before
Awesome DIY Mac mod servers! Those custom 3D printed enclosures or RPi KVM r very cool besides everything else!👍And now with the M4 Mac Minis it's gonna be even better.
The density advantage with the new Mac mini would be huge!
I don't understand why Apple isn't capitalizing on the data center market. Apple silicon offers unbelievably low power consumption over performance, translating into massive energy savings.
I wonder if Apple building custom servers for their cloud Apple Intelligence processing might push them in that direction.
@ It might, but will it be powered by MacOS and Apple Silicon hardware, or will they just go with what's already in commonly available? According to friends at Apple, they don't enforce "not invented here" philosophy when it comes to their own internal computing needs. Intel PCs are commonly used for business and engineering operations and their iCloud servers are hosted by Microsoft.
@@bobweiram6321 They have in fact said that they're using Apple Silicon! At least for the Apple Intelligence stuff. I don't know if I can post links, but there are two press releases from Apple, "Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud" and "Introducing Apple’s On-Device and Server Foundation Models" that go over it in a ton of detail. What I wouldn't give to see what these setups look like... lol
but why?
I wonder what it will take to revive Xserve.
I have one main question -- how do they work around the fact that Apple doesn't support ECC memory on any of the apple silicon macs?
"Where do you work?" "Datacenter, but it's complicated."
Peak power draw of a m4 Mac mini is 25w, pretty crazy.
And now Cisco has ended its entire UCS line since Broadcom screwed over VMWARE and DESTROYED IT!!! RIP VMware...
This is by far the coolest datacenter video i've seen this year.
These will all be running JetKVM by the end of next year. I feel good about that.
1:20 Camera knows what he's doing. Give him a raise
I wonder how much they would save on their energy bill, if they would use apple silicon Mac’s. And with m4 they could cut their rack size roughly to 50%.
Another interesting note: because of how power efficient the Apple Silicon Macs are they only use about 1/3 of the power available to them in each rack.
Thank you for sharing.
The new cooling system was completely redesigned on the m4 I wonder how they will figure out cooling on the new model.
Sort of. It still intakes from the bottom/front and exhausts to the back. The exhaust is in a different place, but it's the same orientation.
They need minisforum to develop a dock. That’s literally all they need to clean up that interface and wiring! Good stuff!😊
Seems odd they talk about keeping it simple and then proceed to show something extremely complex.
It’s all very impressive none the less.
TBH Mac Servers were a thing 20 years ago.
Xserve was really cool!
That is a well thought out solution with lots of details. Very impressive. Also a very knowledgeable manager and great presentation. This video didn't feel 23 minutes long, great pacing!
It's unfortunate that the Mac Pro's software restricts users to only two virtual machines per system... Just imagine the possibilities of a pure Mac Pro cluster!
Interesting note the 2013 trashcan Mac Pros were actually a great success for them for that exact reason. They could build VMware clusters.
3 to 5ms latency is not very impressive for Pure arrays. They can actually get consistent sub-millisecond latency. Maybe he meant 0.3 to 0.5ms latency?
quite fascinating actually. They bucked the norm and created something amazing.
beside the pi3 and servo whats the reset of the kvm hardware they are using?
It's a very interesting setup. I'm kind of surprised in the diversity of hardware they're running though.
Thrilled to see our RackSolutions products powering MacStadium’s state-of-the-art data center! 🙌 From HyperShelf thermal management to our exclusive Server Racks, it’s great to see how our solutions support their cutting-edge Apple infrastructure. Excited for the future of Apple cloud hosting!
Apple should get back into making XServes again...
It would be really cool, but even at this scale, I don't think that would be a big enough use case for Apple to justify it.
I don't think they would want to make repairable devices these days. I'd never put up with an apple server if everything is soldered down or firmware locked to the machine. Granted IBM is doing well with their highly specialized machines that are heavily locked down.
@@unified-itmore use than the dumb-arse Mac Pro.
Yeah if they did with serval M4 Ultra Chips it a server component.
With all my respect to the scale of these solutions, I cannot understand, why simply not use datacanter hardware and virtualize all of these resources.
Apple used to allow it with Vmware on Intel Macs. Now your are hardware limited to 2 VM's per Mac. TLDR: Because Apple.
Their new solution is hilariously janky
Looks like a prototype. I'd hope they refine it a lot before mass deployment. They're going to have to revise it substantially with the new model Mini anyway.
I think this datacenter is efficiency and less maintenance
What a video you guys are doing great.
Excellent video been following them so long good to see their facility
This is so stupid that we are doing this in the age of virtualization.
Killer!
0:03 Why would anyone build a datacenter in Las Vegas? Aren't heat and electricity consumption critical factors in data center operations?
So the new minis will require new design since button moved 😢
That can’t be true about the size of their network and their “largest” claim. They have 4 spines, that’s very basic.
I’ve worked at hyperscalers with 32 super spine switches, in a 7 stage CLOS network. The individual pods had 4 spines, and there were a dozen pods per datacenter. All links were 100G, even down to the servers and were starting to deploy 400G links
i think when they say they're the largest they mean they're the largest Mac DC
@@unicodefoxIt’s a small market.
Pi* KVM
Waiting for a reaction video of when they find out where the new Mac Mini’s power button is located!
I cant understand the point to this when you can just have these at your own home or office for a lot less money
But -oaS and the cloud!
A lot of organizations use the MacStadium solution to run their iOS build and test pipelines at scale with dozens to hundreds of nodes.
I’d rather not pay $1000 for maybe an hour of usage per month which is spent compiling stuff.
@@xanderplayz3446right, but once you do it’s yours forever.