R3 Failure Analysis - Made by Ducati?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video I talk, and say things - and the world keeps turning!
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First, your rear cylinder is the front one. Second, the damaged squish- band is the exhaust side. So your markings are wrong.
But nice video about "thermal reasons".
Cheers from a Ducati workshop
Yeah someone pointed out I labelled the right hand piston wrong - shit happens.
no worries, love your videos....lots of unmasked truth
wah waahhh
@@kellyjackson7889 wtf?
Now I am seriusly thinking to rev the shit out of my bike until it explodes and send you the whole shit so I can enjoy your fooking awesome failure analisis LOL
How dare you explain why the Piston had micro welded aluminum on it and failed, you know we are all supposed to know why that happened and you were just wasting your time making this video.
These R3 videos have been extremely interesting, but this one in particular has been a wonderful illustration of how to look and investigate in detail, rather than just assume that you know what's happened - excellent.
Great analysis Matt. Agree with what side went first. That in itself caused the other side to go. With those pieces gone the next power stroke gases went into those voids and traveled around the piston ring and blew the other weak side area. Awesome!!!
Great analysis *from a guy who knows what the fuck he's talking about*. Thanks for this. It seems that the welding and breaking off of the aluminium edges is the most telling giveaway as to diagnostics, betraying a serious issue. Detonation vs overheating to failure - completely different issues.
Shmoo is real, AVE will tell you
Ok, I have a request for you. Why don't you design your "dream" motorcycle engine for us. Number of cylinders, volume, configuration, number of valves, valve train, bore/stroke, materials, rpm targets, power targets etc. What engine would you like to have in your road bike if you could change variables as you saw fit. Realistic production materials and you'd have to pay for the fuel and servicing costs yourself.
Easy. For me:
1000cc V4, as stressed part of frame using CarTanium steering head and subframe elements.
DOHC gear driven cams (of course)
Lightweight supercharger into carbs.
Custom titanium exhaust with three tone valve:, cop friendly ish; loud; orgasm inducing at 100 yards.
Upside down forks and Brembo anchors.
Sticky track tyres
Single sided swingarm
Carbonfibre wheels
Carbonfibre/kevlar tank (large capacity)
Carbonfibre/kevlar front mudguard, spoiler, half fairing and tail. (Tail must weigh less than an Magnum ice cream)
Renthal bars, satin midnight blue tank and tail.
Thanks for another fascinating video Matt. Every day's a school day! ps I reckon a slathering on the copper grease on those pistons would've prevented any of this nonsense occurrin'. You'd have thought WSB teams would know about such a cheap & cunning ol' trick...
the mrs is not going to be happy when she get her toothbrush back
Excellent post failure analysis.
These are some of your best videos along with keeping the bastards honest.
Perhaps the subscribers might like a lecture on all of the causes of detonation. Just a thought.
Could you do a video on SV engine failures? Particularly the oil starvation from wheelies theories? There seem to be a lot of scare running around that theory and at the same time there are people stunting the SV without issues. Very curious.
Much obliged!
17:40 Matt's ASMR channel
i am a OAP with a chines 250 and i understood all of that.
Brilliant video thank u 👁️❤️👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
13:55 is a better look. right at the narrowest head space / deepest relief. the piston head is definitely contacting the cylinder wall.
Yes, is there more? This is when the piston rocks - usually at TDC and BDC - at TDC is mostly happens on the exhaust/intake stroke
The rub marks are exactly where the failure occurred. The reason the piston head is smaller in diameter than the skirt (which there is not much of on this piston) is so this does not happen. The head scraping on the cylinder wall can cause a lot of heat / friction. Matt I'm not trying to be confrontational I really like your videos, I think some are very funny / entertaining and most are very informative with fairly good useful content. Just trying to make you think a little more.
3:58 Matt starts talking Jewish… what a smock.
That was a good finish .
BSA , bike is bourn , piston burnt right through , detination
I am not experienced enough to constructively comment, but I am learning. Thanks Matt.
But if the world is turning, and the world is flat, is it like a record player? Are we all going to slide off the edge? Or is it like a throttle body butterfly flap. Are we all going to fly off into space if it stops turning? And what about the people on the other half of the world... my brain.
Every time I have seen that sort of damage on a piston it has turned out to be either a complete oil way blockage or a partial oil way blockage. Also I would test compression in both cylinders to be safe. Great video. The R3 problem is probably the idiot who set the fuel ratio up
Of the causes of overheating, I think fueling can be excused because even after overheating it didn;t suffer detonation. The fuel mixture can only get worse as the temp goes up.;
Hope that makes sense etc.
Love the Die antwoord ending!!!
Nice lengthy analysis. I’ll be sure not to lean out the rear cylinder on my 1299. It does run hot though as my road to mars will tell me.😆
Buy two or three new, cheep-ass water cooled engines. Measure dimensions of critical components to make sure, that none of them is fucked up out of the box, and fill them with "different coolants". End this fucking around with revving the shit out of engines in controlled manner and aliasing differences in failures within Evans and normal stuff
And yes, i'm drunk.
Why did you write 'H' and 'M' on those round things?
Ok, first thought is piston cooling is important it affects combustion.
Second thought is if this the modern design of pistons with little or no skirt, then the designers need to incorporate very thin cooling webs on the underside of pistons if that’s possible.
Third thought, any high points on a piston are gonna cause problems with temperature.
Apart from the other piston....
Is this r3 failure month? Also was the cause of this a case of "the water goes in this side"?
at around 11:38 - 11:44 on the good piston thrust side, it look like there may be piston head to cylinder contact right at the valve reliefs. is that true?
Can you use JBWeld on those Piston rings and reuse them?
Don't be silly you slap a shit ton of copper slip on them and then they are good for 25837.9846 more miles..... according to Mr bollocks
I don't understand how the pressure in the ring groove can "lever" that up. That pressure is also acting on top of the piston, right?
Pressure acts on all surfaces. Like filling a ballon. You might fire air into the bottom towards the top but the whole balloon inflates outwards in all directions.
So now we have that out of the way.....
The piston is too hot. The piston has expanded more than it should have done and you can see where the top ring land has been skidding into the cylinder, this and the fact that the piston is rocking at the top of the stroke due to the thrusting from the con-rod.
Now the pressure on top of the piston equals the pressure in the ring groove and the ally in the piston is weak due to thermal loading. At this point the system is in equilibrium. The piston now heads down and this 'skidding' causes the crown section of the piston to deform.
I didn't do the best job of explaining this and we'll do a follow-up
Great comment.
Ah! Uncle Bumblefuck gotcha speaking Canadian!
schmoo? thats ave talk :)
Using N2O on car pistons looks identical to your issue.
Unreal how piston design has moved on since the 1980s. I have a DRZ400 and the piston design is quite similar - like a dinner plate.
just wondering if a bore clearance issue could be the cause?
th-cam.com/video/4r0deVuHzQU/w-d-xo.html Compare the width of the impact craters on the piston crown with the piston ring thickness, the craters are probably where bits of the missing top ring left their mark on the way out. 100% agree its all related to an over-temperature event.
29:51 - that picture has debris still stuck in the crown - these bits are ally - I checked LOL
In this case, would a ceramic coated piston help??
What does the un-broken end of the top ring look like? What is the ring to ring land clearance on both top rings? Your drawing make us think the land gap is "huge" when it is actually very small.
"What does the un-broken end of the top ring look like?" - flat and clean
"What is the ring to ring land clearance on both top rings?" - not what it used to be.
" Your drawing make us think the land gap is "huge" when it is actually very small."
- What? Isn't this a bit of a dumb comment? Actually its very small, but you make me (us) think it's huge, but I know its not? And do you mean ring groove not land gap?
Aren't you just complaining to complain? If you know how small it 'actually' is then you understand it's just a demo. If you believe that other people are too dumb to notice that, then you're guessing. So your complaint is based on a guess? You also said 'us' but not you.......
How the heck does one make the 2 in N2O be small and toward the bottom in it's line?
In editing you highlight the letter and make it smaller LOL
So ….. Ducati should use Sealey pistons ?
Why do 2 stroke have a pins to stop rotation of the rings?
Otherwise they stick out into the ports and break
The rear piston is backwards marked. :/
Why don’t 4ts have pegs to locate the ring? Surely it would be good to locate them properly?
Because 4 strokes don't have ports....
The Workshop but you don’t want the ring gaps lining up eventually do you? Locating them properly would surely be an advantage? Why not put the top ring gap by the exhaust port so it can expand easier ?.....🤔
The rings rotate during operation and this is a good thing. It means that the bore and rings wear more evenly. I did a video of a 2 stroke piston and you can see where the ring wore away on the exhaust port side.
And to add - most of the expansion is due to friction and the combustion gases - the difference between the intake and exhaust side in regards to temperature isn't that much different.
The Workshop I bow to your superior knowledge Dellb......sorry....Matt!🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤪
Do you think Total Shit Traders watched? Amizing what you can learn ..👍
"Total Shit Traders watched" - who?
Your opening sentence. My take on TST Ind.
LOL sorry dude - I looked at the 'Ducati' bit of the title and didn't add 2 and 2 together LOL
The "weak parts" are also bang up on a sudden change of section, can you say "stress riser"?
Come again?
Nope, wrong: the pressure in the ring-groove is 100% equalized by the pressure in the combustion chamber - of course!
This leaves the scuffing the only force levering the bits off.
LOL
I’ll not comment until I’ve watched the whole video
How did u do? did you make it?!
Beach&BoardFan yup
What is the song at the end of the video? Thanks.
Banana Brain - die antwoord at the end of the video
Ducati’s don’t have faults they have character. Expect a shit sandwich email from my wife.
She’s asking for your email address, what should I tell her?
Yeah dude go for it - could always do with a laugh LOL
Second rings
I've got a question for you, Matt. Is it possible to change the crank angle on a bike engine? I started thinking about this once I realized the FZ-07/MT-07 has a 570 degree crank parallel twin, but the MT-03/R3 has a 180 degree crank parallel twin. Am I stupid for wanting to alter the MT-03/R3 to a 570 Degree crank?
You'd have to replace the crank, and the camshafts
The Workshop is that all there would really be to it though? I'd be interested to see if someone has tried this before. I've heard of it with car engines, but not with bikes.
That and the ignition sequence and the injector sequence if you had injectors and yes that would be it. Secondly why would you wanna?
More to do with how it modifies the characteristics from normal parallel twins. supposedly, makes it function in a similar manner to a V-Twin, although can't really confirm. I also just like how it sounds, but that's a fucking stupid reason to spend money on it, ya know?
Crankshaft degrees is all about balance and firing order - forget sound etc - the thing has to work properly.
Time for some new memes, bruv.
I wonder if you opened your videos with girl talk songs if you would get 54 copyright claims all at once
Is teflon in your oil even a bad thing?
No chemically, but its bits of shit that clogg up your filter over time. Hence why changing your oil/and filter is important - as well as all the other reasons
For sure. But about teflon, if you could add it as microfine particles that would pass through filters and the like to your oil would it do any good to your engine?
Teflon in your oil for bikes was discussed in detail on some oil forums, as well as other additives, and oil producers a few years ago among other additives. The oil producers were against it as were many on the forum due to wet clutches along with certainother additives. This I tend to agree with. Can't recall what affect it would have on shear strength of the oil that is essential for gear box. Of course if you have a dry clutch and use Hypoid oil in a separate gearbox as in a car then there is not an issue other than possibly what Matt mentioned regarding filters. There is a lot of information on this on the Internet if you want to look further into it. PTFE (Teflon) is already a constituent in many if not all car engine oils.
Hmm www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140626073316-110074163-ptfe-teflon-re-visited
Virtually all lubricant companies I have come across have stated that additional additives are not required and their product includes all the necessary ones. There is in fact certain components that are very good up to a certain level and then become counter productive. The link you attached refers to motor vehicles as in cars and as I said PTFE is already in car engine oils. This is a problem as when many talk about vehicle oils they usually only think of cars and not motorbikes that are a completely different situation. Trucks use different oils again. In fact it is only reasonably recently that Diesel and Petrol cars could use the same engine oil.
Some of the reasons for differences between bikes and cars are:
Higher operating speeds
Wet Clutches
Shear strength of the oil required for gear boxes run in bike engine oil
The viscosity rating of the oil starts to change after as little as a 1000 miles on a bike, and some say sooner. Most bikes are required to change their oil around every 4000 miles, some sooner some later, that is far more frequent than most cars unless you own an Evo or some super car. I do know riders that put car engine oil in their bikes saying that there is no difference. However there is and personally I would rather put the correct oil in, changing at the correct interval. That ensures that my clutch works properly, and reducing the chance of the gear box or engine failing prematurely.
I love you and your videos.
...but please stop clipping your recording system.
--Your sensitive eared lover.
It only seems to be an issue on your recent vids. Might only be a battery if it's not the mic or recorder itself.
@@dirtygarageguy do a failure analysis on your recording setup.
Anyone crazy enough to run different compression ratios on each cylinder?
It would be pretty fucking stupid - but who knows
@@dirtygarageguy seems like it would be stupid not to in a V twin.
One cylinder running a little cooler? That's unused performance potential.
what is your point?
Come again?
Point is changing your coolant to fucking Evans won't help.
you are only giving us part of the picture where's the rest of the engine?.... What do the bearings look like ?..what does the crankshaft look like?.... What kind of fuel were you running?...... What was the AFR on that cylinder under heavy load?... How flatware the ring lands on the Piston how flat where the Rings?... What was the maximum timing set at?.... What was the heat range of the spark plugs?..
Nikasil failure?
Failure how? Completely come away?
It could have, however unlikely, flaked of etc, causing differential friction, causing the piston to tilt? Bad heat treat on a ring maybe. What did the cylinder look like?
Didn't see the cylinder, but the guy who sent me these wasn't sure what happened, hence sending them to me. If the cylinder had shed its coating, I'm sure he'd have noticed.
A second point to this is that cylinders are honed. Even when nikasil'ed if that's a word. When Nikasil fails if flakes off really easily - there would also be traces of it all over the piston as a hard particle dusting and bigger chunks.
The Workshop just throwing uneducated guesses at you ha ha
First!!
Too much AVE matt ha ha
There's never too much