CtG, I love these series that you make. Just watched the protoss one. I will say you have improved so much! Don't let the complaints get you down. People have there favorites that they love. But these are real situations, real play, with the odd chaos that comes from it. You are doing wonderfully, keep up the good work!
I will also say, I don't think the shock division will do better, but it's also the only one that has any chance, since if they are lifted on the medivacs they can shoot air. So they can capture that damage and kills that none of the others can.
@Ctg, it would be quite useful if you add a column with the cost in minerals-gas and in time of each tank. This gives an idea of how fast you can mass them and how easy is to rebuild them. At least as an additional info 🙏 Keep doing it, awesome serie!
I really wish that you would have tried stukov with the infested admiral prestige instead of frightful fleshwelder. While they might make ammo slower to recharge the ability to spawn broodlings upon death of the volatile infested is just brokenly op at it's ability to stun-lock waves of enemies under a sea of broodlings. It just becomes impossible for an enemy to reach the tanks.
I agree. Another upgrade is Anaerobic Enhancement which makes the volatile infested leap, good against protoss composition who use sentries and force fields.
I like the mengsk tanks but I will admit that these are probably the best and maybe the most fun. I love how they have a spine crawler on them, imagine if they had a spore crawler.
I think the only true comment about nova was probably the vision one. You could fly sieged tanks to the other trains for faster movement. But I think everything else you said were probably true. Nova siege tanks' biggest values are range and spider mines, not really dps on a high health objective.
I don't know what those people were smoking, but it must have been some strong stuff. So lets do a bit of math to the difference of Nova's tanks compared to Swann, Stukov, Raynor and Mengsk's tanks. First, she has only half the supply of what they can have, this makes it so even at full capacity, she will have less output of attacks and damage in general compared to them. Nova's tanks deals more damage by base, but they are more expensive, and when you can have roughly 2 times as many tanks as her, then her tanks would require to do double the damage of a normal tank, which they don't. Second value of supply; Since Nova only have half the supply, the value per supply used, is higher. With tanks taking 3 supply per unit, that means with main base and expo fully saturated, we get what 67 supply left to work with, compared to the 155 supply Swann, Raynor, and Mengsk have. (If I calculated and remember correctly). That is for Nova a total of 22 tanks, compared to 51 tanks. So the supply in this manner means a lot. The tanks don't Lack damage, they lack the numbers. Third value of numbers and costs; Nova's tanks costs a lot more than Raynor, Swann and Stukov, but Mengsk is a bit cheaper than Nova's but higher than the other three. So One unit loss is way more costly for her, than for the others. Conclusion; CtG was doing what he needed to maximise a solo strategy damage output vs number output, and well if he had done just a few mistakes he could have lost way to much, and done too little. It is a pin point of math involving the aspect of valuating units. So keep up the good work CtG.
While I agree with this, to maximise Shock Division output you need Principal Proletariat, which makes Shock Divisions cost 9 supply, 3 times what Nova's tanks cost in supply, nullifying the double supply max. As well ast the fact that they cost more and are considerably more powerful at rank 3.
@@rozmarinideas5340 Yeah, but the Damage increase they have makes up for the increase in supply demand though (To my experience at least). The tricky part is to get them to rank 3.
@@DraconiusDragora I find the best way to get them to rank 3 is to make 1 at a time, but I guess that won't work when you can only make Shock Division and nothing else. The 160% exp (if ctg puts mastery points into royal guard exp gain instead of starting mandate) should help though.
@@rozmarinideas5340 The exp gain helps a lot, though the loss of early expo slows down pretty much everything else. So would need to find that sweet balance between exp gain, and the starting mandate.
@@DraconiusDragora yeah you would. If only they hadn't nerfed the starting mandate. You need that early expo for gas too. Maybe you could steal your ally's gas? But that defeats the point of a solo clear.
By god this... Zerg humanoid is hurling his soldiers at the enemy and they are exploding... this gives me an idea... *looks at prestige 3 with intensity’s* So all these high powered quality weapons for only 100 thousand dominion credits? *motions to assassins behind merchant seller* I accept these terms good sir. *back on korhals secret testing facility* Take this highly advanced piece of destructive devastation and make me and the dominion proud son *slowly gives an evil sly smirk laughing maniacally on the inside*
@@executorarktanis2323 on the next video this man ctg presents the full display of the dominions might and power will be orchestrated general fear not in the end he will make the RIGHT choice. The UED was never a threat to me... those soft earth folk have no idea how to have the stomach nerve and tenacity it takes to build what I have at the edges of hostile fringe space The confederacy the UED even the former remains of an infested admiral has no idea what it means to go all the way like I have
Well, tanks have higher dps in tank mode, so it makes more sense to deal with the wave and than unsiege to finish trains faster... I mean Novas tanks, ofc. Anyway, good video again.
actually i think the best way to see which tank is better ones are to use them in dead of nnight so that the one that can stand the most is the best one and others on timer this way all of them will be in same situation btw ithink mengsk is the best one(i did that and i survived like 7or8 night xD it was just like heart of swarm cinematic xD)
a question please, how does stukov tank deals damage? does it only deal damage through the ammunition (infested explodes)? or does it work like Broodlord's attack that both deals damage on hit and broodlings' melee attack?
Stukov tank has 2 way to deal dmg. Hurling a volatile infested that does splash dmg and can tank hits. And their spine crawler which doesn't cost ammo. Stukov siege tank needs ammo to run. If they run out of ammo their only attacks are spines.
It feels like CtG wants Swann to win. He moved two infested tanks straight into the first attack wave. Really? LUL. Could have sieged and positioned them behind the factory or to the cliff on the left. A mistake? Maybe. His mind was probably on build order and the path to maxing supply, also soloing a map is challenging, but mistakes can add up. Fortunately Stukov is so strong that it didn't matter in the end. Swann did have a strong showing, no doubt about that. But increased hp, free repairs, and immortality protocol makes playing mass tanks more idiot-proof and works well with CtG's play style. They can simply "tank" the enemy attacks. It's nice to see someone showing some love for Swann though. But the way CtG analyzes the commander results at the end of each game, it's almost like he's trying to make a point about Swann tanks, as if someone told him off in the comments or on some Discord server. Even if CtG is passionate about co-op, it's good to see him use a scorecard to keep things more objective. The positioning and vision for the Raynor and Nova games, however, could have been better (using spider mines on trains is a good strategy though) and it feels like these commanders aren't being played to their strengths. It might not matter much with Raynor when you have such strong tanks from Swann and Stukov, but Nova ends up looking worse by taking too many enemy attacks, sometimes even running through enemies instead of using Tactical Airlift to get to the next objective and using high ground advantage. Several losses here and there, which also means less damage and kills, and a lower total supply of 100 are going to make a difference in the final scoring. Nova's tanks should be in the same tier as Swann and Stukov if played more carefully, as you should be taking very minimal losses with the tools she has available. CtG, thanks for the series so far. Not surprised that Raynor is still a bad commander (he and Artanis have the weakest units), but I am surprised that Stukov tanks are so OP (on P0, they are expensive to mass effectively). I usually play Lord of the Horde and mass diamondbacks on Frightful Fleshwelder, so maybe I should add some tanks for P3 or try mass tanks on P1. If not for P1 Stukov, I would have guessed Swann as the series winner. Looking forward to the final segment of the series, where I hope to see some flying tanks. (Please revisit P1 Swann!)
For those of you out of the loop, this is about the Raynor video where CtG unnecessarily lost a substantial number of tanks TWICE (16:00, 17:50 on that one) because he sat there and didn’t press stim. Before you say “oh shut up Raynor Fanboy,” know that I actually almost agree with CtG’s current placement of tanks(Raynor’s should be slightly over Nova’s though), but using skewed data like this is unacceptable to me.
And you could even consider the tank death as miss micro since it was at the beggining and not vs the trains. I'm curous about Mengsk tanks, in power they are better but in number and mobility they are not, sure you can make intercessors to help them go fast and/or use the toxic strikes to make the enemies and the train weaker vs the tanks, but i don't know how will you make the rules
The funny thing is with max mastery, Shock Divisions give you an ungodly amount of imperial mandate, and you can get them out ridiculously quickly and get them to rank 3. At rank 3 they just don't die and they do so much damage it's sad. They can even cover vs air with imperial intercessors. The Principal Proletariat 'disadvantage' actually makes your Royal Guard generate more mandate than normal. Also they have super fast siege/unsiege and witnesses can make you shoot even faster.
@@Ricardo_Rick you get a max of 17. If they're all rank 3, they make up for the low numbers. That's 17 14 range, 13 sight range, 100 damage a shot, stun shot, 1.75 splash radius, fast siege/unsiege, 4 armour, 620 hp tanks. With any other prestige you get 25 tanks with Mengsk, but the advantage of P2 is that all of those Tanks are going to be rank 3 very quickly and you can get more of them earlier. As CTG mentioned, the problem with Shock Division is the gas cost, with P2 that's offset by a lot and lets you max out faster with much stronger units. Personally I would prefer 17 rank 3 tanks at 15 mins to 25 tanks with some rank 2s and 1s at 20 mins.
It’s weird hearing people question your coop decisions. Do they know you spent like 8 hours just to max dehaka essence? You’ve had enough time in coop to be bored with regular strategy.
To be fair, the one tank you lost was kinda because of a bad move in the begining, since your calldown should have handled that first. Additionally, i think Stukov's tanks would have performed even better if you created just a few bunkers to feed your siegetanks more volatile Infested, as well as give them a source of healing.
The bunker would just take up supply for P1 stukov since the upgrade render infes tanks gaining one ammo every 10s. You always start the fight with full ammo tanks as P1 stukov after the buff.
a bunker takes 1 more supply than a siege tank and produces ammo at about 40% the rate of making an extra siege tank, with p1 this is really bad. I like this strat for p3 tho, but then the horde of infesteds do most of the work while the tanks are more of some support.
![Who has the best Siege Tank? Part 5: Arcturus [Starcraft II: Co-Op]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oASCrxis5rE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Who has the best Siege Tank? Part 5: Arcturus [Starcraft II: Co-Op]](/img/tr.png)
![Who has the best Siege Tank? Part 1: Raynor [Starcraft II: Co-Op]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dEPA4Mjq04k/mqdefault.jpg)
![Who has the best Siege Tank? Part 2: Swann [Starcraft II: Co-Op]](/img/n.gif)
Infested tanks hurling civilians at the enemy is literally inhumane. The power of both zerg and terran. I think Gerard would be proud.
I know, imagine if he put actual bombs on the infested instead of having them bloat with acid.
I love siege tanks. I love this serie....
deep tunel --> enemy stall with infested ---> infested provides vision ---> pretty op indeed.
CtG, I love these series that you make. Just watched the protoss one. I will say you have improved so much! Don't let the complaints get you down. People have there favorites that they love. But these are real situations, real play, with the odd chaos that comes from it. You are doing wonderfully, keep up the good work!
I will also say, I don't think the shock division will do better, but it's also the only one that has any chance, since if they are lifted on the medivacs they can shoot air. So they can capture that damage and kills that none of the others can.
@Ctg, it would be quite useful if you add a column with the cost in minerals-gas and in time of each tank. This gives an idea of how fast you can mass them and how easy is to rebuild them. At least as an additional info 🙏
Keep doing it, awesome serie!
I really wish that you would have tried stukov with the infested admiral prestige instead of frightful fleshwelder. While they might make ammo slower to recharge the ability to spawn broodlings upon death of the volatile infested is just brokenly op at it's ability to stun-lock waves of enemies under a sea of broodlings. It just becomes impossible for an enemy to reach the tanks.
I agree. Another upgrade is Anaerobic Enhancement which makes the volatile infested leap, good against protoss composition who use sentries and force fields.
It would be cool if with P1 it would put those upgrades in the engineering bay.
Don't forget the heal as they absorb infested, just one less thing to worry about.
Loved the video! Mass siege tanks are OP as hell!! xD Keep up the videos! Loving them! :D
Time to play my good ol' Alexei. Thanks for giving me the taste
I like the mengsk tanks but I will admit that these are probably the best and maybe the most fun. I love how they have a spine crawler on them, imagine if they had a spore crawler.
Can't wait for Mengsk!
Also infested siege tanks are so funny. XD
And Amon should've sent Skytoss.
he rerolled until the enemy composition was ground only.
@@logicalspaghetti yes I know, but CtG was asking what Amon could've done against this, and Skytoss is what he could've done.
@@rozmarinideas5340 okay, that was unclear.
Hey man, love the vids. The only suggestion that’s been on my mind is using dehaka’s barracks as the main attacking unit in a composition.
Would love to see that
You mean Stukov's barracks?
@@levkrasovsky4920 no I couldn’t remember what it was called but I checked and it’s the “warden”
Sounds great
I think the only true comment about nova was probably the vision one. You could fly sieged tanks to the other trains for faster movement. But I think everything else you said were probably true. Nova siege tanks' biggest values are range and spider mines, not really dps on a high health objective.
People advising CtG
CtG: Not today Amon!
21:03 This is the first time I've seen someone use deep tunnel to kite
dang, that intro, I didn't know people in Manila were this Maddie (Ziegler?).
I don't know what those people were smoking, but it must have been some strong stuff.
So lets do a bit of math to the difference of Nova's tanks compared to Swann, Stukov, Raynor and Mengsk's tanks.
First, she has only half the supply of what they can have, this makes it so even at full capacity, she will have less output of attacks and damage in general compared to them.
Nova's tanks deals more damage by base, but they are more expensive, and when you can have roughly 2 times as many tanks as her, then her tanks would require to do double the damage of a normal tank, which they don't.
Second value of supply; Since Nova only have half the supply, the value per supply used, is higher. With tanks taking 3 supply per unit, that means with main base and expo fully saturated, we get what 67 supply left to work with, compared to the 155 supply Swann, Raynor, and Mengsk have. (If I calculated and remember correctly). That is for Nova a total of 22 tanks, compared to 51 tanks. So the supply in this manner means a lot. The tanks don't Lack damage, they lack the numbers.
Third value of numbers and costs; Nova's tanks costs a lot more than Raynor, Swann and Stukov, but Mengsk is a bit cheaper than Nova's but higher than the other three. So One unit loss is way more costly for her, than for the others.
Conclusion; CtG was doing what he needed to maximise a solo strategy damage output vs number output, and well if he had done just a few mistakes he could have lost way to much, and done too little. It is a pin point of math involving the aspect of valuating units.
So keep up the good work CtG.
While I agree with this, to maximise Shock Division output you need Principal Proletariat, which makes Shock Divisions cost 9 supply, 3 times what Nova's tanks cost in supply, nullifying the double supply max. As well ast the fact that they cost more and are considerably more powerful at rank 3.
@@rozmarinideas5340 Yeah, but the Damage increase they have makes up for the increase in supply demand though (To my experience at least). The tricky part is to get them to rank 3.
@@DraconiusDragora I find the best way to get them to rank 3 is to make 1 at a time, but I guess that won't work when you can only make Shock Division and nothing else. The 160% exp (if ctg puts mastery points into royal guard exp gain instead of starting mandate) should help though.
@@rozmarinideas5340 The exp gain helps a lot, though the loss of early expo slows down pretty much everything else. So would need to find that sweet balance between exp gain, and the starting mandate.
@@DraconiusDragora yeah you would. If only they hadn't nerfed the starting mandate. You need that early expo for gas too. Maybe you could steal your ally's gas? But that defeats the point of a solo clear.
By god this... Zerg humanoid is hurling his soldiers at the enemy and they are exploding... this gives me an idea...
*looks at prestige 3 with intensity’s*
So all these high powered quality weapons for only 100 thousand dominion credits? *motions to assassins behind merchant seller* I accept these terms good sir.
*back on korhals secret testing facility*
Take this highly advanced piece of destructive devastation and make me and the dominion proud son *slowly gives an evil sly smirk laughing maniacally on the inside*
Sire we need to pull off some huge stunts to top this zergy tank which was first a part of dominion I might remind you
@@executorarktanis2323 on the next video this man ctg presents the full display of the dominions might and power will be orchestrated general fear not in the end he will make the RIGHT choice.
The UED was never a threat to me... those soft earth folk have no idea how to have the stomach nerve and tenacity it takes to build what I have at the edges of hostile fringe space
The confederacy the UED even the former remains of an infested admiral has no idea what it means to go all the way like I have
Well, tanks have higher dps in tank mode, so it makes more sense to deal with the wave and than unsiege to finish trains faster... I mean Novas tanks, ofc. Anyway, good video again.
What is amon's option? Probably mass air
Who would win? 53 siege tanks which shoot banelings or 1 broodlordy boi
Virgin Nova Tanks < Chad Stukov Tanks
actually i think the best way to see which tank is better ones are to use them in dead of nnight so that the one that can stand the most is the best one and others on timer this way all of them will be in same situation btw ithink mengsk is the best one(i did that and i survived like 7or8 night xD it was just like heart of swarm cinematic xD)
a question please, how does stukov tank deals damage? does it only deal damage through the ammunition (infested explodes)?
or does it work like Broodlord's attack that both deals damage on hit and broodlings' melee attack?
Only when the infesteds explode it deals damage.
Stukov tank has 2 way to deal dmg. Hurling a volatile infested that does splash dmg and can tank hits. And their spine crawler which doesn't cost ammo. Stukov siege tank needs ammo to run. If they run out of ammo their only attacks are spines.
It feels like CtG wants Swann to win.
He moved two infested tanks straight into the first attack wave. Really? LUL. Could have sieged and positioned them behind the factory or to the cliff on the left. A mistake? Maybe. His mind was probably on build order and the path to maxing supply, also soloing a map is challenging, but mistakes can add up. Fortunately Stukov is so strong that it didn't matter in the end.
Swann did have a strong showing, no doubt about that. But increased hp, free repairs, and immortality protocol makes playing mass tanks more idiot-proof and works well with CtG's play style. They can simply "tank" the enemy attacks. It's nice to see someone showing some love for Swann though. But the way CtG analyzes the commander results at the end of each game, it's almost like he's trying to make a point about Swann tanks, as if someone told him off in the comments or on some Discord server. Even if CtG is passionate about co-op, it's good to see him use a scorecard to keep things more objective.
The positioning and vision for the Raynor and Nova games, however, could have been better (using spider mines on trains is a good strategy though) and it feels like these commanders aren't being played to their strengths. It might not matter much with Raynor when you have such strong tanks from Swann and Stukov, but Nova ends up looking worse by taking too many enemy attacks, sometimes even running through enemies instead of using Tactical Airlift to get to the next objective and using high ground advantage. Several losses here and there, which also means less damage and kills, and a lower total supply of 100 are going to make a difference in the final scoring. Nova's tanks should be in the same tier as Swann and Stukov if played more carefully, as you should be taking very minimal losses with the tools she has available.
CtG, thanks for the series so far. Not surprised that Raynor is still a bad commander (he and Artanis have the weakest units), but I am surprised that Stukov tanks are so OP (on P0, they are expensive to mass effectively). I usually play Lord of the Horde and mass diamondbacks on Frightful Fleshwelder, so maybe I should add some tanks for P3 or try mass tanks on P1. If not for P1 Stukov, I would have guessed Swann as the series winner. Looking forward to the final segment of the series, where I hope to see some flying tanks.
(Please revisit P1 Swann!)
Ok so is tank micro valid now? Cuz that was a lot of tank micro
For those of you out of the loop, this is about the Raynor video where CtG unnecessarily lost a substantial number of tanks TWICE (16:00, 17:50 on that one) because he sat there and didn’t press stim. Before you say “oh shut up Raynor Fanboy,” know that I actually almost agree with CtG’s current placement of tanks(Raynor’s should be slightly over Nova’s though), but using skewed data like this is unacceptable to me.
Infested Tanks easily the best
they're so derpy
since their spines take a bit to attack and train manages to leave their range before the animation is done
hi red
Shock division is the only tank that hits air. Don't forget to unseige tanks for better dps against trains.
Question. Don't siege tanks have more st dps in tank mode?
And you could even consider the tank death as miss micro since it was at the beggining and not vs the trains.
I'm curous about Mengsk tanks, in power they are better but in number and mobility they are not, sure you can make intercessors to help them go fast and/or use the toxic strikes to make the enemies and the train weaker vs the tanks, but i don't know how will you make the rules
The funny thing is with max mastery, Shock Divisions give you an ungodly amount of imperial mandate, and you can get them out ridiculously quickly and get them to rank 3. At rank 3 they just don't die and they do so much damage it's sad. They can even cover vs air with imperial intercessors. The Principal Proletariat 'disadvantage' actually makes your Royal Guard generate more mandate than normal. Also they have super fast siege/unsiege and witnesses can make you shoot even faster.
@@rozmarinideas5340 the problem with p2 is the number of tanks available
@@Ricardo_Rick yeh, the actual problem Will be the xp, with p2 you make More siege tanks than the xp you need to rank them to 3
@@trollerox7276 in p2 the supply is bigger, meaning less tanks
@@Ricardo_Rick you get a max of 17. If they're all rank 3, they make up for the low numbers. That's 17 14 range, 13 sight range, 100 damage a shot, stun shot, 1.75 splash radius, fast siege/unsiege, 4 armour, 620 hp tanks. With any other prestige you get 25 tanks with Mengsk, but the advantage of P2 is that all of those Tanks are going to be rank 3 very quickly and you can get more of them earlier. As CTG mentioned, the problem with Shock Division is the gas cost, with P2 that's offset by a lot and lets you max out faster with much stronger units. Personally I would prefer 17 rank 3 tanks at 15 mins to 25 tanks with some rank 2s and 1s at 20 mins.
My like Is for the Stukov's Siege Tanks!
Please take that bottom hill orz
enemies cant hit you if they cant see you, so just add missile turrets for anti air and shell from safety
I think stukov's are my favourite
This guy who said that you didn't have control group probably was watching on 180p and didn't see XDDDD
Can I place more than one like? I just love stukov!
It’s weird hearing people question your coop decisions. Do they know you spent like 8 hours just to max dehaka essence? You’ve had enough time in coop to be bored with regular strategy.
You didn’t count spidermine’s kill tho...
🤡
To be fair, the one tank you lost was kinda because of a bad move in the begining, since your calldown should have handled that first.
Additionally, i think Stukov's tanks would have performed even better if you created just a few bunkers to feed your siegetanks more volatile Infested, as well as give them a source of healing.
The bunker would just take up supply for P1 stukov since the upgrade render infes tanks gaining one ammo every 10s. You always start the fight with full ammo tanks as P1 stukov after the buff.
a bunker takes 1 more supply than a siege tank and produces ammo at about 40% the rate of making an extra siege tank, with p1 this is really bad. I like this strat for p3 tho, but then the horde of infesteds do most of the work while the tanks are more of some support.
A tank that shoots banelings
I still prefer swans or tanks
And the Shock decision
I have a good game and you
Catapult
“What even is the enemy’s counter play?”
Uhh, one brood lord?