I think you're absolutely right. The other uses you mentioned were discovered after the ring was already a thing. One other advantage of the ring is that it's easy to make, especially in mass production. One long iron rod, cut it up, bend it, boom, done.
Yes, the ease of manufacture is certainly a plus! However, not all rings were produced using an extended tang. Many were forge welded on after the tang was finished, which suggests that other factors were at play.
In Shang bronze swords had disk pommel to prevent the weapon from flying out while swinging, but being harder to manufacture in large quantity, other lower status sidearm swords had a bent horizontal bar pommel (almost a semi cercle).In Han dynasty iron Dao started to appear, the pommel would have to be forge weld to the tang, the semi cercle pommel soon faded out for being harder to joint to, instead, full rings that cut from a coil could have been mass produced and easier to align to other work pieces by holding it with a pair of tongs, or even jigs. The lanyard (cloth) isn't for retrieving the weapon after losing it, but to bind user's hand to the handle to not going to lose grip ever. there are other usages like tying other end of lanyard to a hole (if present) near the tip of the blade forming a sling for carrying it around.
I had previously read in a magazine that it was for tassel tying to the wrist. A tassel may serve to secure the saber from falling far or loosing from the hand. The cloth type tassel also provides a hand wipe from blood during battles. If the saber is waved and turned in quick actions, a hand free tied cloth tassel to the ring pommel can as well confuse an attacking enemy.
Yes a ring pommel certainly could help with that, but most of the soldiers in Chinese history who used ring pommel blades did not practice horseback archery which was a highly specialized skill.
Great information thank you ! Could you please talk about other features we often find on chinese weapons? Like tassels or defent hilt shapes on Jian ?
I more or less agree: Chinese coins traditionally have a hole, so that they can be carried on strings. This goes back to "knife money", ie. small token ring pommel dao, which could also be carried on strings and appeared in the Shang dynasty. Knife money was based on a type of real ring pommeled utility knife that started to appear in China during the Shang dynasty. They were found even earlier in nearby steppe culture sites, so they have a very long history and are probably not a native Chinese invention. They also appear on some steppe culture blades from during the Han dynasty and it's possible that the Roman ring pommels from the same period were derived from contact with the western end of this cultural complex (Sarmatians and Parthians). The influence of steppe weapons wasn't momentary - the Chinese didn't simply copy these ancient knives and then forget about the steppe people and their weapons. They were bordering them for thousands of years and the cultures were continually aware of each other and usually in conflict. Essentially, the knives that the knife money were based on didn't go anywhere and real knife versions were still used both by the Chinese and by the steppe people. You can find artwork from the Han dynasty of soldiers equipped with both a short and a long ring pommeled dao. The two cultures started to lengthen these weapons to sword length at about the same time and it's difficult to determine whether this began in China or outside. Traditionally, China had been influenced militarily by the steppe peoples, but by this period, China had itself become a superpower and had begun to influence others. At any rate, the ring pommels on large dao/knives are surely a carry-over from the ring pommels on small dao/knives (whether this innovation happened in Chinese dao or in steppe culture knives). Certainly some uses were found for these rings, but ultimately, the dao/knives simply had no reason to lose the rings when longer versions were made, as this was the shape of handle that people were used to for this class of weapon. In later centuries, the rings were filled in, but the overall shape remained present in Chinese swords forever after, in some form or another. The Mongols put an end to ring-pommel dao, pushing a more sabre-like dao to the forefront (some previous dynasties had also done this briefly), but by the Tang dynasty, jian also used ring pommels and this basic hilt shape seems to have remained, slowly evolving over the centuries. I'd note that there are depictions of the "lanyard" use in Han dynasty artworks. It's not necessary to look ahead to the Tang.
Another great video, was always curious about the ring pommel. So my mandarin is bad, like really bad. If I speak slowly folks can understand me but I know a few phrases and words. At 0:09 sounds like you are saying 我叫 ? Not sure on the second part? jianbing? or something close? Am I hearing you correctly, you are saying your name is?
@@thescholar-general5975 Ah! Thank you, thought I heard the first part. I usually have to ask folks to slow down but still like to study the language. I've studied Taijiquan for a few years, but like with many of the Chinese arts you'll find elitists out there who complain about everything. I figure I'll study on my own and verify my material myself which lead me to your channel :) part of my research and I'm enjoying your content. I do wish I could get fluent in Mandarin, but alas I only know some basic stuff.
Thanks for watching! That is a great question. There were a few different ways that the ring was made. The one you outline is one of them. One very common way that they were made was to construct an open ring separately and then forge weld it onto the tang.
Great you should mention the dao-bi/knife money here. What's also really interesting is that the knife money's blade shape on many of them curves FORWARD for some reason and not backward like you see on Turko-Mongol influenced dao. Kind of makes you wonder if the weapon/tool off which the knife money is based also had a forward curve or not. I haven't heard of any archaeological dao from the Shang/Zhou with a forward curve nor are most reproductions of earlier period Chinese swords/knives typically forward curved; most are straight. Would you happen to know of any earlier archaeological Chinese dao with a forward curve like that? I also sometimes wonder if the Nepalese Kukri and other forward curving swords/knives on China's extremities like certain Filipino knives were in any way related to these earlier forward curving dao...
A bit of constructive criticism, I would suggest using b-rolls or still images to create a smoother transition so the cuts aren't so jarring. Keep it up, because very few HEMA TH-camrs really delve into Chinese weapons (Matt Easton dabbled, and in fact led me to your channel).
Thank you for the help with video production! I know that the cuts can be jarring and B-rolls would definitely help smooth over some of the breaks. I am a total noob when it comes to filming vids so the advice is helpful. Also yeah, Matt Easton is great! My plan here on this channel is to mostly focus on Chinese stuff and sometimes dabble in other regions.
Had no idea about the "knife currency"! Also, the wielder can thread a handkerchief, lanyard or a simple rope thong through the hole to use it as an extension of the grip, thus dramatically increasing the leverage when wielding two-handed. There a scene from the Final Master (2015) where this is shown. th-cam.com/video/qH8sRpoyYD0/w-d-xo.html
Thanasis Earnest Lampropoulos I am a little skeptical of its effectiveness and would want to see if it could provide any advantage in test-cutting or full contact sparring in order to be convinced otherwise.
@@thescholar-general5975 Of course, tests are needed to prove its practicality and a real two-handed grip will be better, but it's a nuisance to wear (Matt Easton of schola gladiatoria has explained that the handle of some longswords is so long that when the sword is sheathed, the handle seriously impedes the movement of the off-hand/left hand and can snag the bowstring when shooting a bow). When one cuts with a two-handed sword, the off-hand is pulling the blade (which can be done with a cord/flexible material) and not pushing it (as is done when thrusting). So, if the dao you're holding is edged you can readily test cutting two-handed with a flexible grip extension. Moreover, it would be interesting to find out if the "handkerchief two-handed saber style" depicted in the movie is established or just fanciful. I've been looking into it but i cannot find anything in English. Perhaps, someone with a good command of Chinese will have better luck.
@@AggelosKyriou In the future I can likely do a dedicate video on lanyards and tassels. I have a few other things on the burner for now though so it won't be coming out too soon, but I will put it on my list.
I don't think so. I am developing the BaldEagle Claw Kung Fu style and I wish my dao(katana) had a ring pommel. The reason for this is plenty. For example to shoot a bow while holding a sword at the same time for fast transitions. Better balance. Hitting with the pommel. Not loosing the sword. Using the sword as a repeatable distance weapon with a line. Ring pommel is key also for close combat where it is important to grab (grappling) striking and using the sword all at the same time. To secure it on the scabbard or wall. Fighting with a shield. I could go on and on. Its probably 1000 practical reasons for having a ring pommel. If it was decorative you wouldn't need a steel pommel. The ring pommel can be found also in modern fighting knifes for the same reasons. Its extremely practical.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Developing a style is a bold move that takes a lot of work and I wish you the best with that going forward! I think that the ring pommel can be used in certain limited contexts such as the archery one you mention, but pulling this and other techniques requiring precise manipulation of the fingers in a battle would be much more difficult and require a level of training not suited to the rank and rile troops who may carry ring pommel dao. Also, many techniques involving striking with the pommel can also be done with a bronze endcap. Blunt trauma weapons can often be made out of non-steel materials and still be very effective. Also, something I forgot to mention in the video is that lanyards can also be used and were used on blades which did not have ring pommels. In short, I think that many of these techniques can be done whether the dao has a ring pommel or not. And fighting with fingers placed into the ring pommel seems like it may bring a decent chance of breaking them. I know that the karambit has a ring, but the karambit itself is largely designed around this use in mind, and I don't see that with the ring pommel dao from China's past.
I would like to see a ring pommel dao, with lanyard, in action. Though I haven't expiremented with it, it seems like the lanyard could really limit your range-of-motion, and make anything but the most basic cuts impractical. One day, I'll test that out. Great vid! 👍
joplinpakmeiathleticassociation I know of lanyards being used on some cavalry sabers in both Europe and China. I think that using a lanyard on horseback makes a lot more sense due to the limited nature of cutting from horseback and the greater risk of dropping your blade, but I can’t say I would want one in a duel. It would be fun to mess around with though!
In European armies up to the 20th century, the sword knot (which is a lanyard) is a standard accessory of swords and was covered by regulation and training manuals.
If I think of it in the sense of cavalry/on horseback, it makes a lot more sense. I tend to automatically view combat from a duellist's perspective; admittedly, studying large-scale combat is still fairly new to me. Thanks for the info gentlmen. 🙏
I rather like the connection to the early currency, seems plausible given the contemporaneous development of the objects. I wonder if there is something of a baseline effect for accounting, or some deeper connection between the form of the sword resembling money and the logistics. For example, did the number of Dao serve as a kind of administrative shorthand, i.e., x thousand dao in such and such a place indicates there are a set number of soldiers (or could be, if more were mobilized)? Sort of like how "rifle" can be a metonymy for a modern infantry soldier.
Lee Chirtel That is an interesting thought I hadn’t considered. In the future I might do a video just on knife coins and explore some of the implications it has.
If it was for putting on racks. Would we not see the same for other weapons in a Han dynasty arsenal? One example is Breville's hook design which they originally had to design for ease of use for a human hand to easily grab a plug and pull it out of a socket. They then extended that ethos to their other products like any handles on their products.
Ring pommels might be useful for racking some weapons, but other common weapons such as spears and crossbows are large by design and wouldn’t easily be racked in the same way that the dao could be.
@@thescholar-general5975 While I agree that it's possible that they were stored in this way, my reservation would be that presumably they were stored in their scabbards so suspending them off the ground and allowing the scabbards to have the possibility of falling off seems potentially dubious.
no they were not, ring pommels among the celts, in china, in the near east ect have the same Eurasian steppe origins.. the ring pommeled swords and knives in europe survived in some parts.. - central europe ect and maybe ireland.. up untill the middle ages.. but they are not a separate thing but a branch of the same thing.. the early germanic tribes loved bronze "war knives with rig pommels and these in turn appear after the appearance of ring pommeled arms in the steppe. the bronze ring pommeled knives in the Mediterranean, eastern europe and the ones in china look almost the same .. and are copies of ring pommel knives from northern central asian nomads..
The problem with the decorative argument is that these ring pommels are not found on two sided swords (jian), and jians were usually the more expensive and more decorated type of sword. The early Han Dynasty daos with ring pommels are extremely bare-bones and utilitarian in nature and lacked decorative features. The Han Dynasty jians on the other hand, often had plenty of decorations but lacked ring pommels.
@@Intranetusa Han dynasty dao may have used the ring pommel as a loop to hang from racks, especially since early bronze knife coins were also suspended by the loop, but I don't think that this needs to actually be true to explain their existence. The ring pommel itself may not be decorative but simply the way that things have always been done.
Other cultures did have ring pommels. The Celts, Romans, and Sarmatians had them and I think some other cultures did as well. Not to mention the other Asian cultures that borrowed the idea from China.
This is making me think about that time I heard someone say the ring on the wushu daggers used for performance was there so in combat they could easily flip the blade. Ignoring of course that actuslly daggers or knives used for combat did not have rings like that & the answer both why the flip exists in the form & those daggers is that the daggers are for performance only & the flip exists in the form to teach out both ice grip & hammer grip. The flip is there due to the theatrics of forms themselves
the rings come from bronze age weapons originating in the eurasian steppe .. there is no good reason for the ring to be honest.. .. people didnt used them for lanyards. it is just decoration.. there was daggers with rings, nives with rings,, swords with rings... ring pommels probably originate in northern kazakhstan , the most-likely origin is they come out of antennae pommel swords where the antennae slowly became more and more into a loop.. some rings are oval shaped or D shaped during some periods.. the ring spread to asia with the trade in bronze swords.. romans had ring pommeled knives,, sythians had ring pommel daggers, swords ect and many germanic tribes used ring pommel weapons ring pommels survived till the middle ages in europe .. there is several medieval style of dagger ect from central europe still with ring pommels.. its not some vestige from knife-coins hung on strings it predates such coins.. and is wide spread though all the old world where the bronze trade existed. generally in history you can see large numbers of ring pommels in the steppe of the ukraine and kazakhstan.. these poeple raided both east into asia and also into europe and the near east.. and seem to have liked these rings on their swords for quite a time, until the turco-mongol sabres began to appear in fact.. quite a few sythian iron examples show up on auctions dug from the steppe in the ukraine . its just curious that in china its a style thats lingered on so long and yet no knives and household cutlery survived with this ring.. (many knives and butchering tools had during the bronze age this feature at it sheight of popularity.., some greek, persian, chinese, central asian and roman household knives and germanic utility knives or "war knives" had it .. .. it just "looks good" there is another family of handles that originated about the same time in the south Caucasus.. the lobed pommels these were originally bronze lobes.. probably representing testicles.. they have became the ears on yatagans.. and the lobes on the central asian. balkan. turkish, north african, uyghur ect knives... again many people have silly reasons why there is ears on the knife.. but its just tradition.. a long lasting one..
I think you're absolutely right. The other uses you mentioned were discovered after the ring was already a thing.
One other advantage of the ring is that it's easy to make, especially in mass production. One long iron rod, cut it up, bend it, boom, done.
Yes, the ease of manufacture is certainly a plus! However, not all rings were produced using an extended tang. Many were forge welded on after the tang was finished, which suggests that other factors were at play.
其实还有一种说法认为早期的中国刀具的握柄其实是不露出来的，也是被刀鞘包裹住了。因此刀环的存在可以让刀快速拔出来。
In Shang bronze swords had disk pommel to prevent the weapon from flying out while swinging, but being harder to manufacture in large quantity, other lower status sidearm swords had a bent horizontal bar pommel (almost a semi cercle).In Han dynasty iron Dao started to appear, the pommel would have to be forge weld to the tang, the semi cercle pommel soon faded out for being harder to joint to, instead, full rings that cut from a coil could have been mass produced and easier to align to other work pieces by holding it with a pair of tongs, or even jigs. The lanyard (cloth) isn't for retrieving the weapon after losing it, but to bind user's hand to the handle to not going to lose grip ever. there are other usages like tying other end of lanyard to a hole (if present) near the tip of the blade forming a sling for carrying it around.
I had previously read in a magazine that it was for tassel tying to the wrist. A tassel may serve to secure the saber from falling far or loosing from the hand.
The cloth type tassel also provides a hand wipe from blood during battles.
If the saber is waved and turned in quick actions, a hand free tied cloth tassel to the ring pommel can as well confuse an attacking enemy.
Some nomadic traditions would shoot their bow riding, while holding a saber. Wouldn't a ring pommel help with that?
Yes a ring pommel certainly could help with that, but most of the soldiers in Chinese history who used ring pommel blades did not practice horseback archery which was a highly specialized skill.
This is fascinating! Thanks for sharing!!!
It's more "why not" than "why" .
Great information thank you !
Could you please talk about other features we often find on chinese weapons? Like tassels or defent hilt shapes on Jian ?
I more or less agree:
Chinese coins traditionally have a hole, so that they can be carried on strings. This goes back to "knife money", ie. small token ring pommel dao, which could also be carried on strings and appeared in the Shang dynasty.
Knife money was based on a type of real ring pommeled utility knife that started to appear in China during the Shang dynasty. They were found even earlier in nearby steppe culture sites, so they have a very long history and are probably not a native Chinese invention. They also appear on some steppe culture blades from during the Han dynasty and it's possible that the Roman ring pommels from the same period were derived from contact with the western end of this cultural complex (Sarmatians and Parthians).
The influence of steppe weapons wasn't momentary - the Chinese didn't simply copy these ancient knives and then forget about the steppe people and their weapons. They were bordering them for thousands of years and the cultures were continually aware of each other and usually in conflict. Essentially, the knives that the knife money were based on didn't go anywhere and real knife versions were still used both by the Chinese and by the steppe people. You can find artwork from the Han dynasty of soldiers equipped with both a short and a long ring pommeled dao. The two cultures started to lengthen these weapons to sword length at about the same time and it's difficult to determine whether this began in China or outside. Traditionally, China had been influenced militarily by the steppe peoples, but by this period, China had itself become a superpower and had begun to influence others.
At any rate, the ring pommels on large dao/knives are surely a carry-over from the ring pommels on small dao/knives (whether this innovation happened in Chinese dao or in steppe culture knives). Certainly some uses were found for these rings, but ultimately, the dao/knives simply had no reason to lose the rings when longer versions were made, as this was the shape of handle that people were used to for this class of weapon. In later centuries, the rings were filled in, but the overall shape remained present in Chinese swords forever after, in some form or another. The Mongols put an end to ring-pommel dao, pushing a more sabre-like dao to the forefront (some previous dynasties had also done this briefly), but by the Tang dynasty, jian also used ring pommels and this basic hilt shape seems to have remained, slowly evolving over the centuries.
I'd note that there are depictions of the "lanyard" use in Han dynasty artworks. It's not necessary to look ahead to the Tang.
ring pommeled swords and knives predate coins in china.
@@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367 Glad you learned something.
I found your channel on razmafzartv, glad I did I will enjoy your content.
Thank you for watching!
Another great video, was always curious about the ring pommel.
So my mandarin is bad, like really bad. If I speak slowly folks can understand me but I know a few phrases and words. At 0:09 sounds like you are saying 我叫 ? Not sure on the second part? jianbing? or something close? Am I hearing you correctly, you are saying your name is?
BlazeLeeDragon Oh a fellow student of Mandarin! 加油！You are getting close, the name is (mo jiang dian bing) 墨將點兵.
@@thescholar-general5975 Ah! Thank you, thought I heard the first part. I usually have to ask folks to slow down but still like to study the language. I've studied Taijiquan for a few years, but like with many of the Chinese arts you'll find elitists out there who complain about everything. I figure I'll study on my own and verify my material myself which lead me to your channel :) part of my research and I'm enjoying your content. I do wish I could get fluent in Mandarin, but alas I only know some basic stuff.
Is the pommel the tang forged to encircle itself in the end?
Thanks for watching! That is a great question. There were a few different ways that the ring was made. The one you outline is one of them. One very common way that they were made was to construct an open ring separately and then forge weld it onto the tang.
Great you should mention the dao-bi/knife money here. What's also really interesting is that the knife money's blade shape on many of them curves FORWARD for some reason and not backward like you see on Turko-Mongol influenced dao. Kind of makes you wonder if the weapon/tool off which the knife money is based also had a forward curve or not. I haven't heard of any archaeological dao from the Shang/Zhou with a forward curve nor are most reproductions of earlier period Chinese swords/knives typically forward curved; most are straight. Would you happen to know of any earlier archaeological Chinese dao with a forward curve like that? I also sometimes wonder if the Nepalese Kukri and other forward curving swords/knives on China's extremities like certain Filipino knives were in any way related to these earlier forward curving dao...
A bit of constructive criticism, I would suggest using b-rolls or still images to create a smoother transition so the cuts aren't so jarring.
Keep it up, because very few HEMA TH-camrs really delve into Chinese weapons (Matt Easton dabbled, and in fact led me to your channel).
Thank you for the help with video production! I know that the cuts can be jarring and B-rolls would definitely help smooth over some of the breaks. I am a total noob when it comes to filming vids so the advice is helpful.
Also yeah, Matt Easton is great! My plan here on this channel is to mostly focus on Chinese stuff and sometimes dabble in other regions.
You are correct, sir
I am glad you agree! Thanks for watching!
Had no idea about the "knife currency"! Also, the wielder can thread a handkerchief, lanyard or a simple rope thong through the hole to use it as an extension of the grip, thus dramatically increasing the leverage when wielding two-handed. There a scene from the Final Master (2015) where this is shown.
th-cam.com/video/qH8sRpoyYD0/w-d-xo.html
Thanasis Earnest Lampropoulos I am a little skeptical of its effectiveness and would want to see if it could provide any advantage in test-cutting or full contact sparring in order to be convinced otherwise.
@@thescholar-general5975 Of course, tests are needed to prove its practicality and a real two-handed grip will be better, but it's a nuisance to wear (Matt Easton of schola gladiatoria has explained that the handle of some longswords is so long that when the sword is sheathed, the handle seriously impedes the movement of the off-hand/left hand and can snag the bowstring when shooting a bow).
When one cuts with a two-handed sword, the off-hand is pulling the blade (which can be done with a cord/flexible material) and not pushing it (as is done when thrusting). So, if the dao you're holding is edged you can readily test cutting two-handed with a flexible grip extension.
Moreover, it would be interesting to find out if the "handkerchief two-handed saber style" depicted in the movie is established or just fanciful. I've been looking into it but i cannot find anything in English. Perhaps, someone with a good command of Chinese will have better luck.
@@AggelosKyriou In the future I can likely do a dedicate video on lanyards and tassels. I have a few other things on the burner for now though so it won't be coming out too soon, but I will put it on my list.
I don't think so. I am developing the BaldEagle Claw Kung Fu style and I wish my dao(katana) had a ring pommel. The reason for this is plenty. For example to shoot a bow while holding a sword at the same time for fast transitions. Better balance. Hitting with the pommel. Not loosing the sword. Using the sword as a repeatable distance weapon with a line. Ring pommel is key also for close combat where it is important to grab (grappling) striking and using the sword all at the same time. To secure it on the scabbard or wall. Fighting with a shield. I could go on and on. Its probably 1000 practical reasons for having a ring pommel. If it was decorative you wouldn't need a steel pommel. The ring pommel can be found also in modern fighting knifes for the same reasons. Its extremely practical.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Developing a style is a bold move that takes a lot of work and I wish you the best with that going forward!
I think that the ring pommel can be used in certain limited contexts such as the archery one you mention, but pulling this and other techniques requiring precise manipulation of the fingers in a battle would be much more difficult and require a level of training not suited to the rank and rile troops who may carry ring pommel dao. Also, many techniques involving striking with the pommel can also be done with a bronze endcap. Blunt trauma weapons can often be made out of non-steel materials and still be very effective. Also, something I forgot to mention in the video is that lanyards can also be used and were used on blades which did not have ring pommels. In short, I think that many of these techniques can be done whether the dao has a ring pommel or not. And fighting with fingers placed into the ring pommel seems like it may bring a decent chance of breaking them. I know that the karambit has a ring, but the karambit itself is largely designed around this use in mind, and I don't see that with the ring pommel dao from China's past.
I would like to see a ring pommel dao, with lanyard, in action. Though I haven't expiremented with it, it seems like the lanyard could really limit your range-of-motion, and make anything but the most basic cuts impractical.
One day, I'll test that out.
Great vid! 👍
joplinpakmeiathleticassociation I know of lanyards being used on some cavalry sabers in both Europe and China. I think that using a lanyard on horseback makes a lot more sense due to the limited nature of cutting from horseback and the greater risk of dropping your blade, but I can’t say I would want one in a duel. It would be fun to mess around with though!
In European armies up to the 20th century, the sword knot (which is a lanyard) is a standard accessory of swords and was covered by regulation and training manuals.
If I think of it in the sense of cavalry/on horseback, it makes a lot more sense.
I tend to automatically view combat from a duellist's perspective; admittedly, studying large-scale combat is still fairly new to me. Thanks for the info gentlmen. 🙏
I rather like the connection to the early currency, seems plausible given the contemporaneous development of the objects. I wonder if there is something of a baseline effect for accounting, or some deeper connection between the form of the sword resembling money and the logistics.
For example, did the number of Dao serve as a kind of administrative shorthand, i.e., x thousand dao in such and such a place indicates there are a set number of soldiers (or could be, if more were mobilized)?
Sort of like how "rifle" can be a metonymy for a modern infantry soldier.
Lee Chirtel That is an interesting thought I hadn’t considered. In the future I might do a video just on knife coins and explore some of the implications it has.
If it was for putting on racks. Would we not see the same for other weapons in a Han dynasty arsenal? One example is Breville's hook design which they originally had to design for ease of use for a human hand to easily grab a plug and pull it out of a socket. They then extended that ethos to their other products like any handles on their products.
Ring pommels might be useful for racking some weapons, but other common weapons such as spears and crossbows are large by design and wouldn’t easily be racked in the same way that the dao could be.
@@thescholar-general5975 While I agree that it's possible that they were stored in this way, my reservation would be that presumably they were stored in their scabbards so suspending them off the ground and allowing the scabbards to have the possibility of falling off seems potentially dubious.
@@Meevious Yes, the scabbard should not be overlooked!
This shows my "mongrel" side
( as my Sifu calls me ). My first thought was to put a chain on it and swing the sword around clearing the area. 😋
A risky move, but I would certainly keep my difference! 😅
ring pommels were also convergently invented by the Celts.
L0 good to know!
no they were not, ring pommels among the celts, in china, in the near east ect have the same Eurasian steppe origins.. the ring pommeled swords and knives in europe survived in some parts.. - central europe ect and maybe ireland.. up untill the middle ages.. but they are not a separate thing but a branch of the same thing.. the early germanic tribes loved bronze "war knives with rig pommels and these in turn appear after the appearance of ring pommeled arms in the steppe. the bronze ring pommeled knives in the Mediterranean, eastern europe and the ones in china look almost the same .. and are copies of ring pommel knives from northern central asian nomads..
I want a ring pommel dao to hold in my draw hand while I draw the bow! Yes I am strange
More power to you!
The fact that only the Chinese had ring pommels and not other cultures indicates its decorative surely?
Great point!
The problem with the decorative argument is that these ring pommels are not found on two sided swords (jian), and jians were usually the more expensive and more decorated type of sword. The early Han Dynasty daos with ring pommels are extremely bare-bones and utilitarian in nature and lacked decorative features. The Han Dynasty jians on the other hand, often had plenty of decorations but lacked ring pommels.
@@Intranetusa also good point! Ring pommels were eventually abandoned.
@@Intranetusa Han dynasty dao may have used the ring pommel as a loop to hang from racks, especially since early bronze knife coins were also suspended by the loop, but I don't think that this needs to actually be true to explain their existence. The ring pommel itself may not be decorative but simply the way that things have always been done.
Other cultures did have ring pommels. The Celts, Romans, and Sarmatians had them and I think some other cultures did as well. Not to mention the other Asian cultures that borrowed the idea from China.
This is making me think about that time I heard someone say the ring on the wushu daggers used for performance was there so in combat they could easily flip the blade. Ignoring of course that actuslly daggers or knives used for combat did not have rings like that & the answer both why the flip exists in the form & those daggers is that the daggers are for performance only & the flip exists in the form to teach out both ice grip & hammer grip. The flip is there due to the theatrics of forms themselves
the rings come from bronze age weapons originating in the eurasian steppe .. there is no good reason for the ring to be honest.. .. people didnt used them for lanyards. it is just decoration.. there was daggers with rings, nives with rings,, swords with rings... ring pommels probably originate in northern kazakhstan , the most-likely origin is they come out of antennae pommel swords where the antennae slowly became more and more into a loop.. some rings are oval shaped or D shaped during some periods.. the ring spread to asia with the trade in bronze swords.. romans had ring pommeled knives,, sythians had ring pommel daggers, swords ect and many germanic tribes used ring pommel weapons ring pommels survived till the middle ages in europe .. there is several medieval style of dagger ect from central europe still with ring pommels.. its not some vestige from knife-coins hung on strings it predates such coins.. and is wide spread though all the old world where the bronze trade existed.
generally in history you can see large numbers of ring pommels in the steppe of the ukraine and kazakhstan.. these poeple raided both east into asia and also into europe and the near east.. and seem to have liked these rings on their swords for quite a time, until the turco-mongol sabres began to appear in fact.. quite a few sythian iron examples show up on auctions dug from the steppe in the ukraine . its just curious that in china its a style thats lingered on so long and yet no knives and household cutlery survived with this ring.. (many knives and butchering tools had during the bronze age this feature at it sheight of popularity.., some greek, persian, chinese, central asian and roman household knives and germanic utility knives or "war knives" had it .. .. it just "looks good" there is another family of handles that originated about the same time in the south Caucasus.. the lobed pommels these were originally bronze lobes.. probably representing testicles.. they have became the ears on yatagans.. and the lobes on the central asian. balkan. turkish, north african, uyghur ect knives... again many people have silly reasons why there is ears on the knife.. but its just tradition.. a long lasting one..
Do you have any links to these papers in russian which discuss this topic?
Definitely. It's a pausible explanation