Deer Fencing - 6 acre model with bonus trellis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- www.edibleacres...
Sharing a design here that so far seems to have had a very strong effect on deer movement through our larger acreage. VERY heavy duty used metal poles 8' long, ~2.5m are pounded in 3 feet or 1m every 20' or 6m. We run 14 gauge wire as taught as possible at roughly 18", 36" and 60", .5m, 1m, 1.5m.
This only works as a system when there is a significant amount of vegetation or dead / branch material on the outside, ideally both. It will work BEST when we can add perennial vines and thorny cane fruit to weave through the whole line, but that will take years.
Total cost by sourcing metal poles used and using an old spool of 14 gauge for most of the run (pre-pandemic prices, wow), kept this entire 6 acre fencing project under $500.
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Love it! Did something similar on my old property until the trees were above their browse, and then as you are planning, we let them back in.
That sounds sweet, I'm looking forward to the arch of this experience
The deer problem is huge, but like rabbit problems, and other pest problems, it is mostly a human problem.
I love your natural, organic approach to problem solving. Thanks for sharing.
@Disabled.Megatron Rabbits aren't easy here (suburban plot). They (especially young rabbits) chew everything from tree barks (even when protected with tree guard) to your young transplants. They even go after things that are supposed to repel them like garlic. I have so many that come from under my neighbour's deck as well as the wilderness area.
Deer herd populations are making disturbing impacts on other flora + fauna. Certainly a problem created by humans. Negative Impacts reaching well beyond just humans.
I like how you use the gooseberries along the wire to create your own barbed wire. ^ ^
Not related to this video, but in a q&a about starting a nursery, you once suggested that someone could call a strawberry farm and offer to come prune their runners for them as a way of gaining inventory for no money.
Today i went to a u pick farm and grabbed about 100 runners (with the farmer's permission). Currently potting them up. Thanks for the tip!
This has worked for me. I have a lot of established grape vines rooted outside their intended space which I have been training to a wire 6 to 8 feet above the fence. The deer prune the excessive summer growth but do not eat the older leaves and stems where the grapes develop. This reduces the amount of pruning I need to do, looks good above the chain link fence and gate near the house and the deer do not jump the fence even though it is mowed right up to the fence. As mentioned they love the novel more tender things I am growing. They are addicted to raspberry, loganberry, boysenberry and some of the flowers I like for my salads like evening primrose and hollyhocks. I will have to make a video for you of what is working so far.
Very cool design idea, I like the concept a lot!
If you end up making a video about it please link it here so we can see!
I love it!
Brush keeps them from jumping in, the fence keeps them from walking in.
I noticed deer tend to avoid a barrier they can't see through (their eye sight isn't as good as I expected). Also they don't care for rough or prickly plants, so I planted a thick plot (12 close set rows) of black oil sunflowers. Itchy & too thick to see through. Works for now. Fence for 10 acres soon.
I don’t have deer but have seen and participated in putting up grape trellisses and this system looks like it will be lots of great berries in additions as a great barrier.
It looks great except for the bittersweet! That stuff is the bane of my existence here and so invasive! Good luck with your deer herding attempts!
A concern: The loose metal fencing interwoven with plants will be come impossible to modify at some point.
@Disabled.Megatron "Controlled" is tough when you can't make a fire break between what you want burned and the rest. And of course, removing is only one kind of modifying.
This is so creative and inspiring! Learning so many tips from you to implement in my own designs.
I'm planning on becoming a member soon. Your content is better than any book I've read. The explaination of guilds are my favorites.
Man if something very unfortunate happened I’m this world you have built the place to withstand that… what a great video. Affordable fence!!! What a great video
That's a delight to see at 6:31, I'm currently in the process of growing some thimbleberries from seed and Salmonberry! Both natives here in pacific northwest, I prefer salmonberry in terms of texture and flavor - thimbleberry was quite a surprise when I had my first taste of it a couple weeks ago, trick is too pick them when they are a pale red and still hard, they'll ripen indoors within a night!
Thanks for the trick on thimbleberry!
I think the brush fence might get a fine in a place like Colorado where they have regulations due to forest fire.... but I still like the idea. We are in drought conditions here in Iowa and the concern is grass fires which aren't as bad, unless they take out all of your lined up hay bales. But I want to do something similar but just layer it with old wet hay and cap it with soil like a hugel mound. Should keep it fire safe, plus provide us with much needed wind protection and in some areas also provide much needed moisture retention as it would also act as a berm. Fingers crossed that I can get all of it done! Of course, if I start digging small ponds like you and Juan do, then that could go a long way to provide the soil for topping it.
It looks like you are greening up well so hopefully you are getting rain now. Do you have any concerns with the brush wall being a fire risk. Fire is on my mind with all the Canadian fires at the moment
I understand the concern. THis area has no historical precedent of being a fire prone area so at the moment at least I'm not concerned in that way
@edibleacres here in Ohio we are generally safe also. This spring was the driest I had seen in 17 years of farming and gardening. I think that has really got me worrying....
I've been experimenting with dead hedges as deer deterence on my 2 acre property. Seems like layering the obstacles is key at least to keeping out the big flocks of European fallow deer around here. In my case I've been layering willow on the outside, that they love, to guide them past and down to the watering hole that they frequent, then a ditch with an ooold stone wall, then a pretty thick dead hedge and then finally a layer of whatever I can find to plant on the inside. So far it's worked in keeping the big flocks of fallow deer out (can be like 20-50) and keeping the small family of deer (3) mostly in the areas where I want them. It's a fun process for sure.
I'm in an exurb where the deer have just started eating garlic and even milkweed! So anything more palatable is browsed by default. I have used your approach with brush, posts, wire (and ground fencing for rabbits) and deer get in, but it's hard to tell where and how. So far a trail camera hasn't caught anything to help with the understanding.
You work with black locust and you talked about a temporary tree sanctuary. Could black locust planted at 6" intervals grow to a permanent fence and provide a huge pollarding reservoir as well as grape and kiwi trellis? They could establish in the temporary sanctuary time.
Yes, that would be amazing if you could get enough of them going, though that would be a LOT of black locust to keep under control, if you don't you end up with not a fence but a treeline :D. Black locust is invasive in my part of Europe so I would probably regret doing that!
@@thehillsidegardener3961 Crazily, I barely can keep them alive due to deer browse. Some sort of protection until they're tall enough. Suckers likely would be grazed down by deer.
Unlike Sean, I live on all the property I manage and have designed it so I see every part every day. Pruning with electric hedge clippers on an extension 3x/year wouldn't be so hard. If I get injured though...
Sean's multiple properties are bigger and he lives daily on only 1 of the properties, so it's another story. Perhaps a locust fence only on the north for shading reasons.
@@SeekingBeautifulDesign Yes, I am in the same boat, I don't live on the property year-round, I have only one black locust growing in the actual property and I can barely keep that in check :S (no deer here though, not sure why though, I guess they COULD wander along at some point).
you are so creative and resourceful!
Deer have been a problem for us this year. We might have to try the posts and wire, but I don’t think that will help with the marmot problems we already have going on.
Have you given any thought to creating a living woven willow fence? You could weave it up to 6' high and pollard it at 6'. The new shoots could then be used to extend the fence until it is completed. Then, all the brush could be turned into biochar. Just a thought.
I love the idea but it is hard! Willow is such a key food source for deer in our landscape, so getting them established is very challenging in our site. We keep trying and they keep eating!!!
Most of our future fencing is in partial to heavy shade of older growth. We'll have to forgo food producing barrier and opt for the brush piles. Brush piles do encourage the rabbits and small critters. The future LGD should help with the wiser creatures. I'm also in NY, no brush fires here.
I understand folks concerns about the fire hazard, but yeah, in our context it doesn't seem like something even remotely on the radar...
I wonder if there are deeply shade tolerant plants you could explore tucking into the fenceline to slowly expand and enhance the blockage...
Are you concerned that the non native aggressive plants outside the fence line will find their way onto your property and make it unmanageable, or do you stay on top of invasive removals within the perimeter?
Thanks for another tour. Btw, your hair looks GREAT like that! Good ideas with all that fencing.
I enjoyed the idea. I'm going to definitely do this on my property and add a bamboo stalk for height.
Thanks for sharing this update on your inexpensive way of discouraging deer. My fear of the brush wall has only hardened after the weeks of drought conditions we experienced before this current wet period, but the rest is absolutely my plan. I never stop kicking myself at passing up on some stakes I could've gotten for free--I only took half of them because I didn't think it was worth another 2 hour drive! Ugh, what a fool I was!
P.S. I just learned that you were 'shadowbanned' on the composting subreddit and have removed that. I don't think you're interested in posting on Reddit anymore, but when I found that, I couldn't stand for it! I guess a long time ago someone thought you were posting there too much but didn't feel like confronting you about it. So if you ever have a peeing-on-the-compost joke to share, you're welcome to join us again!
I hope you land on a design for deer fencing that works really well for you!
Interesting on the compost subreddit, never knew! I used to share videos on reddit but haven't put effort in lately and seems like it's frowned upon so oh well! Hoping some other folks share our stuff there :)
Using woody debris is an interesting approach, but IMO questionable for most scenarios. Aesthetically it wouldn't work in many suburban / exurb areas; since getting support for permaculture landscapes is still a work-in-progress, that's a real consideration. Material-wise, the amount of woody debris is high; woody debris might better be used for mulch or filler for hugel mounds. And it's a VERY challenging setup to modify as time goes on.
We had a section of our yard that unintentionally mimicked your setup. For the first several years it made a fun scruffy berry & bird patch. But then it hit a growth spurt & became very problematic. Excessive growth & harbouring nasty invasives was bad enough, but then our normally damp/wet environment (East TN) went through a heat wave/drought in 2012. The initial woody debris (loblolly pine) was overlaid with a decade of bramble branches, and it was all dry. And THEN our neighbors set off fireworks for 4th of July. Nothing landed in our brush pile, blessedly, but it was...worrisome. Getting the pile dismantled enough to pull out the loose debris was a BEAST; we're still dealing with privet & English ivy & honeysuckle & poison ivy &
(continued). If someone does want to try a similar approach, I'd recommend 2 modifications: Access gaps & packing the debris tightly.
Lay the woody debris in no more than 20 foot runs, then allow a gap big enough for a big mower/small brush hogger. Yeah, you'll need a different fencing solution for the gaps, but if nothing else it's a fire break.
Then take the time to pack the woody debris in snug; go back periodically to maintain it. Think of it like building a mortarless stone wall - avoid light/air gaps. This does take more effort, but you end up with a wood berm rather than a brush pile. The wood breaks down better, releasing nutrients & increasing fungi & becoming a sponge/filter for water. That's what we did with a lot of the old debris we had, and it's a vast improvement.
Fantastic! I’m tempted to emulate this on my back side of my 2 acres.
This is a great solution. Unfortunately for us, our main issue is wild boar, who I feel would probably be able to get through beneath, but I am inspired to try some more natural fencing solutions, with living plants and debris/trimmings.
Wshew, yeah, wild boar would most likely have an easy time with a fair bit of this. Some sections, perhaps as much as 50 percent or more, I could imagine being pretty tough for a mammal like that to work through, but this is designed for deer not boar!
i wonder if part of the reason this strategy is working is due to the fact that the deer associate the metal lines with electrically charged barriers that others may be using in your area.
That is quite possible. I think physically it is evolved into something just too complex to have them move through.
It’s the depth of the structure actually. Deer have a much wider set to their eyes to make it harder for predators to sneak up on them, but also drastically reduces their depth perception. Even if they could technically jump a brush wall or thicket, they will refrain if they aren’t confident what is on the other side.
We just went through a month of vertical intense forest fires in my area. Have you considered the increased forest fire hazard that the brush piles bring to your property?
We have had no fires in this particular area as long as I know of, and I don't know of anyone ever experiencing that in this area, so this is designed based on that reality for where we are. Certainly not an appropriate design for fire prone areas
Deer are definitely a problem. I now have 7ft T posts with heavy gauge deer fencing. I found it’s better to go big early instead of trying to save money
That brush wall is a fire hazard! Here in Montana I'm always worried about all the dead brush on my land.
They are in a wet context. Also there isdebate and testi g that shows promoting more natural green undergroxth in forests actually protects the main trees. Hrough wind barriers, and combustible low to the ground preventing fire in the canopy, wetness retention low to the ground, loweri g travel speed of fire. Etc. These brush walls create tree nurseries and are often overgrown with green vines.
This also seems nowhere near buildings.
@Disabled.Megatron lol tell me you've never lived with the possibility of wildfires without telling me.
@@TheEmbrio If the undergrowth is green, I could see that. But as part of the natural forest cycle, the canopy eventually shades out the shorter growth until not much can grow there. And dead wood is dry wood.
And no matter where the dried brushpile is, lightening could ignite it.
I'm just saying I personally wouldn't purposely make large tinder piles around my property.
If you add berries and grapes along the fence, wouldn’t that attract deers to come over and browse?
I think it can be a good strategy to give animals what they want. If the hedge sustains them, they won't need to come in.
I think they would have a very hard time accessing it from the outside, but any browse they do on the outside is 100% tolerable to us
Really helpful video, thanks! We have a tall grassland context near the woods, so while I don't think I could make this dense enough to deter deer in year 1, I do think I could set this in motion and add to it over time. I'm also debating those solar electric fences where you kinda do a 3d design with two fence layers, create something they're not keen to navigate even though they have the ability to jump very high. th-cam.com/video/wm9QvbgryRg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=StoneyRidgeFarmer
Oh my word! With all the fires going on in the north American continent, this is so hazardous. The dead under brush is a hazard. California, the west, Canada, Italy
Lightning is starting a majority of them. Rather have deer than nothing😮!
Great idea 👍👍
👵🏻👩🌾❣️
Shawn how do you keep the deer from going up your folks driveway?
Yep! That is still an issue, and the browse right around that space has remained pretty intense. We'll have to see how I design out of the issue or if we can tolerate a bit of browse right around the house
The only thing that concerns me is the animals that will be using the brush piles for habitat. I have lost more crops to rabbits than deer and would not want to have a place for mice and rats to live because they will draw in the snakes..
I hate fencing but the deer seem to become more brutal every year now. This year they even browsed my dill down. I need to fence 1.8 meter to keep deer out but that will still allow some moose to enter occassionally. I hope for a grey wolf expansion to control the deer eventually but the fear of losing pet dogs makes the policy makers here taking out the wolves rather than the deer at the moment. That makes it impossible to have a balanced eco system here.
You clearly are not worried about wildfires with all that dead debris stacked up. I not only must clear deadwood but must/should get it far from the house. Your site is bigger so perhaps it affords you more options. On one acre I must leave a clear space around the house and prevent deer from entering the site. It limits the approach to gardening.
New York State is wet. Even in 'drought' conditions wildfires are not a problem.
Personally I’m not a fan of this idea. Least to me a lot of it looks trashy. On top of that your loosing lots of precious space on your own property as well.
This kind of reminds me of my neighbor’s property that was just let go and never taken any care of. The original owner passed away and the property was sold and fortunately the new neighbor took more pride in their surroundings and how it looks. But they spent a fortune having all the debts and garbage removed from the property and had the property cleared completely where they could do more building for their new home and a horse stables, etc. they put a nice vinyl white fence around the front of the property by the road and ran a 5’ metal fence with t posts around the rest of their property.
So at least I now have one neighbor that cares what their property looks like besides myself and maintenance their property. Especially when summer hits and everything dries out just waiting for a spark to set off a wildfire! Least a couple of us neighbors won’t have to worry as much of loosing our homes and other valuables. Not to mention loss of life to uncontrolled fires running rampant throughout the area and no way to get out of a fire starts in the area in the worst area there’s only one way in and out that would trap neighbors for miles.
You think people would learn something from all the California fires that ran rampant and so many people lost everything for miles and miles. There’s good reasons to maintain your property too!