Great analogy with music at 12:15! Starting bands with people who love the same music; studying classical music but then slipping out of the tracks to play some jazz!
I have watched this for 5 times so far. Every time I watch it, I take something away and process it in my head. And every time I listen again I pick up something else up. Each time I watch it just affirms my choices in life.
@gangliums people have always been a commodity. Tou can get insured like a house or a stolen car. There is a job market where you have given value based on your skills, education, and experience. There is also dating market where you are being judged even more.
Great discussion and excellent speakers! I wish they had talked a bit or given examples of non-hierarchical polyamory, because not all polyamory follows the primary/secondary model.
I felt that Esther was walking a line and was not for or against Monogamy or Polyamory. She is a marriage counsellor and sex Coach. She is making a lot of money pitching her courses on line "How to bring passion backing into the marriage" but blessing the woman or man that rather have sex with many. Which is fine, but I have not come across a course for "How to bring passion back into the primary relationship because your partner is tired of you and has many sexual options" Diana talked about starting a family without discussing the implications it will have on children, yes Gay people have children, and while they may seem stable, they are at this time in history a huge minority. and Children are tough. Polyamory is not wrong or right it is what it is, I think at this time it is the Wild West, and the dust has not settled.
Fun, entertaining, informative. You guys are part of my 'crash course' introduction to poly - something that is emerging in my own relationships - and I feel like I'm in the right place
THIS IS INCREDIBLE OF A DISCUSSION! WOW! The insights the powerful discussion and beautiful awareness notes, OMG Thank you for this This is BRILLIANT!!!
This has been very important for me. It's so hard to find information on this. I'm so confused, and this sort of content helps me. I just wish there was more.
Normal relationships have this too It's called friendship This is how we connect And learn from each other Without sleeping with each other If you Can't be Is this how you get your life Do your own thing Polyemry It's not for me I will share my life with one partner in friends and family why do find that one partner passion my love my desire going to be for her in my life force are going to be sure with that person at the end of day I did my job I hate my friends when I come home she gets my love am I fiction we'll sit down talk about our day now be nice👌👍
Totally agree...they look it seems like you can't be complete with one partner... it's like 2 people relationships are the closest thing to die alive and I think that only happens when you don't get the right match and honestly I think they are lazy people that want the benefits from a relationship but not the commitment...look it's more probable you die before you get to know someone entirely so guess...you get involved with 10 people more besides your partner do you get even know this people for real at some point?... honestly I think this is the kind of relationship that people with Peter pan sindrome want: having sex friends for ever
Very complex topic and life situations. Discussion is always helpful but there are no clear answers, formulas or examples to follow. Truly depends on the individuals involved, and the situations continually change - life happens. If approached in a responsible, adult manner, can be a liberating and rewarding way to live.
profound comment from Ester at 1:24:50 about caring for people who are losing their faculties (comes to all of us!) and remaining a human being while you care. Difficult subject to touch upon; appreciate
I transcribed this, if helpful: "Audience Q: Are there more men who want to have open relationships than women? Esther Perel: "The poly community is very female-dominated, in fact a lot of the outspoken leaders and authors are female. Throughout all of history, it has been completely sanctioned for men to acknowledge that they are polyamorous, in fact it is strengthening to men who acknowledge it, and it has been the opposite for women. If we stop thinking that women are less interested in sex and that in long-term relationships they lose all interest in sex because they are less desirous of sex and instead, we looked at maybe in fact women are more quickly bored with monogamy than men, but the only permission they have had is to say they are not interested in sex, rather than they are interested in other sex. We actually know more and more from research that women lose interest sexually much sooner, not because they aren’t interested in sex but they have no interest in the sex they’re gonna have. We don’t actually know that much about female sexuality since it has been controlled forever. Yet if women were so uninterested in sex, why did every society spend so much energy in controlling female sexuality? That doesn’t add up to me. Most studies that look at sex look at intercourse, in and out, and that is a very male definition of sexuality. If we look at the entire range of physical and sensual expression, maybe we would realize that women aren’t that less sexual than men."
Hey! Fantastic panel discussion! I'd like to more easily reference some of the content -- anyone know if there's a transcript floating around anywhere…?
I transcribed this, if helpful: "Audience Q: Are there more men who want to have open relationships than women? Esther Perel: "The poly community is very female-dominated, in fact a lot of the outspoken leaders and authors are female. Throughout all of history, it has been completely sanctioned for men to acknowledge that they are polyamorous, in fact it is strengthening to men who acknowledge it, and it has been the opposite for women. If we stop thinking that women are less interested in sex and that in long-term relationships they lose all interest in sex because they are less desirous of sex and instead, we looked at maybe in fact women are more quickly bored with monogamy than men, but the only permission they have had is to say they are not interested in sex, rather than they are interested in other sex. We actually know more and more from research that women lose interest sexually much sooner, not because they aren’t interested in sex but they have no interest in the sex they’re gonna have. We don’t actually know that much about female sexuality since it has been controlled forever. Yet if women were so uninterested in sex, why did every society spend so much energy in controlling female sexuality? That doesn’t add up to me. Most studies that look at sex look at intercourse, in and out, and that is a very male definition of sexuality. If we look at the entire range of physical and sensual expression, maybe we would realize that women aren’t that less sexual than men."
Thank you for reinforcing the idea that there's so many ways to do this. I'm monogamous with my boyfriend, his girlfriend and I are the only two in his life, and my best friend in the world (his girlfriend) dates other men and women regularly. And we're SO happy.
@@traceyfernandez5910 Two years later we got a house! I've been accepted as Mom #2 by my best friend's kids, she still dates and I'm still monogamous with our mutual partner. Really, me and her being able to be friends and all three of us carefully and thoughtfully constructing our own boundaries to respect everyone else's relationships has allowed this to work. We've had our hard times just like any other couple or poly situation, we just make a point to talk through everything and work out our own issues. As Ian below this comment pointed out - not all poly have the primary/secondary model. For us - all three of us serve as one unit and anyone who is dated from the outside has a chance to grow and become part of our unit or can stay a more 'secondary' style separate situation. What we really learned through all this is to not let anyone else make up our rules. There are books and podcasts and videos saying how it CAN go - but ultimately do whatever works for you and feels right to your heart. Society doesn't get a say, your Mom doesn't get a say, your best friend doesn't get a say. And if Society wants to look at you sideways because you're out with a man who's kissing your best friend and you back-to-back, stick your tongue out at them and move on. :)
It's not for everybody. This might kill you, but I know people who being with only one person would kill them. For me - I AM with only one person, but I'm so introverted that if HE didn't have another partner to spend time with I would probably kill him! :) Everyone's got their own take. Thanks for being open minded enough to listen to the concept. That's more than a lot of people do anymore.
@@catwilson8987 exactly, about their open mindedness. i know that open in any form wont work for me but i respect that it does for others and the fact that the person above knows their limitation is great. hopefully less destruction that way..
sorry to be off topic but does anybody know of a method to log back into an instagram account..? I stupidly lost the login password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me
What the person on the right says about having to pick your poison between jealousy and wanting to have sex with other people can be avoided. I used to believe monogamous relationships weren't for me after my ex girlfriend of almost 2yrs and me broke up(constantly missed freedom/felt trapped). But after I met a special woman ,almost 3 months ago, I am not even in a relationship with yet, but have really strong feelings for, my perspective on the matter changed. I think it is more about finding someone who is worth sacrificing a bit of day to day fun for long term joy and affection. Because once you make the evaluation of the superior importance of the feelings you and your significant other share you automatically become less intrigued by other people. For example after me and this, to me, magical woman met and connected I had sex with someone else. I decided a couple of days later that sex is not worth it to break the connection with the woman that is actually important to me (I also told her that it happened). After I came to this conclusion whenever there has been temptation, it definitely was still there, it actually felt good to resist it. In essence, you won't have to feel bad about missing out on amazing sex because you know that what you have with this one person is more rewarding. For example having a deep connection of trust. In my opinion a relationship, that is not fulfilling enough to an extent where you constantly look towards other people sexually, should be ended, so both parties can look for better matches.
Thank you for sharing. I think a tricky thing is that depth is conflated with monogamy. I have had romantic partnerships that were deeper in polyamory than in monogamy. I'd be surprised if I was the only one. Also, I'm happy for you :)
Exactly.. that's the real problem here and no one it's seeing it...people get bored in most monogamous relationships because they are not a good match and why is that? Most of all because they don't talk enough to get to know the other part, they don't know actually how to communicate without argue because they bring all their past failures over the new person, so of course, with this background monogamy is for no one
Well that was incredible... I wish they would've had more time to discuss some topics further and I wish that someone was there to describe the non-heriarchal relationship models (no primary/secondary, relationship anarchy, etc.), but overall, REALLY wonderful insights. SO helpful, inspiring, and invigorating.
Great discussion but I wish the entire video's audio was equalized. Or maybe if the audience wasn't mic'd during the conversation. The speakers were quiet so I turn the volume up, but then the laughter was SOO loud and sudden. Realllly fucking annoying. Thank you for posting the content though!
You need to stop judging and open your mind to listen to their individual experiences. They are for our benefit. If you don't want to hear them out, turn off the video and gtfo with your negativity and unfair judgment. 👋
I always enjoy Esther Perel and it was fun to listen to Reid and Diana. The most important message for me was; if you are going to participate as Polyamory; find those that also want to live this lifestyle. Trying to change someone from a monogamos belief into a Poly way of life is not healthy. What has not been resolved is family matters and legal matters, Comparing love hormones in an early relationship to Crack Cocain was wrong. Even the feeling is completely different; cocain kills sexual urge, crack cocain destroys lives. I also wonder what is the difference between an Escort who sees many men for money and a woman who want to be with many men with out pay?
I was in a marriage for 20 years and I was miserable it just got so boring so I've definitely thought about this lifestyle. But one of my problems is I get attached and then that's when the jealousy sets in 😂
I hear you, but all relationships can get "boring" eventually. Even if you were to date three different people simultaneously, you could get bored of them all given enough time, and just seek out others. Relationships require so much work, and novel shared experiences to keep things exciting over the course of many years. But still, don't expect to get all of your entertainment and fulfillment from romantic relationships.
Seems like instead of being in relationship with one person, you are making a collage of many of them. Collage of only good parts, of course (unless you are lucky to meet only super evolved individuals) I dont know if we are designed for that much less if we can connect to anyone really that way. Emotions and love may be genuinly limitless but time and energy (and money usually) are not, and we still live in physical world... good luck :)
Thanks...some one really mature here... it looks like they have just one bad experience in past with one particular person and they didn't heal for real because maybe didn't took the time for that so they are avoiding that happens again at any cost so the best way to achieve that is just to have this collage of people who only is going to give you the best of them all the time of course because you don't live with them, so you don't need to deal with their problems
As a clinical psychologist I have found in 40 yrs of practice that YES women get bored with the sex they HAVE in monogamy. The mam often get into a same routine,,there is no more sexual exploration of the partner, the ams perspnal hygiene may slip that can happen to women but not as often. Men forget about romance, wooing of any kind,,sex become perfunctory and the woman is not stimulated emotionally or physically. Life looses its zest and the woman shuts down sexually.The woman just gives up and doesnt want sex anymore. Sybil Francis PhD clinical psychologist/professor
Even though they comment that the poly community isn't gender skewed and is more female dominated when it comes to putting these things into practice there's a lot more guys ready to go in open / poly relationships than women. I've seen many posts of people opening up their relationships and the male in the relationship struggles to find partners / matches and their female partner has no problem lining up the prospects; although to be fair the poly community mentions its not a competition (but at the same its definitely a challenge that needs to be overcome unless you're dating / hooking up as a couple with other couples)
Would these (academic) people think differently if they lost their prosperity? I am convinced that they would. These are results of accesses. Prosperity is based on building blocks of a stable and monogamous marriage based families. When a man passes away which of his 8 females gets the deed to his house (and what does that "fight" look like)? The son of which of his wives takes over the family business. Prosperity derives in part from one generation building upon the prior generation's prosperity. In lower income families prosperity derives in part from multiple working people having only one set of bills for living expenses. These people take accesses of our cushy prosperity and way of living and confuse that wealth with not having to be responsible for nurturing our prosperity, instilling stability and preparing our youth, and cultivating our culture through the means of tradition. Who will take care of children, not when they are one or two years old but when college payments are due? When a 13 year old girl needs a trusting mother to confide in because she experienced her first period, which one of the multiple mothers is it going to be? Which father is going to talk to his son when he has his first girlfriend and offer the emotional guidance. These people talk about monogamous marriages as failed concepts, pointing out the rates of divorce and adultery, when it is the proliferation of the lifestyles that they advocate that are among the causes for traditional lifestyles to experience such hardships. Narcissistic and immature in my opinion. Every one fantasizes about wild, variety laden sex with multiple partners and it's great when we are 18. Doesn't mean that we should live this way during our child rearing age and hold symposiums, advocating this garbage and influencing horny people in order to feed a self justification need which is just another manifestation of narcissism and immaturity. grow up!
+Paul Bras "When a 13 year old girl needs a trusting mother to confide in because she experienced her first period, which one of the multiple mothers is it going to be?"The one she feels most comfortable discussing it with, presumably. In fact the nuclear family is very much a construct of the industrial age. Before then people lived in extended family groups which were probably a much more stable and nurturing environment. In fact the monogamous nuclear family is a myth rather than a fact - 10% of women in Victorian London (with its strict moral codes and family values) were prostitutes. One thing you have right, the influence of affluence. There was less divorce in the past because people (particularly women) were stuck in relationships for financial reasons. The fact that that is no longer the case in developed countries is a positive thing, not a negative one.Personally I think there's nothing more immature than jealousy.
+Paul Bras It seems you mention problems that are so easily solved by intelligent adults. If you gave them very much thought you could come up with some viable suggestions yourself. There are many books out there about how to handle financial planning and family organization... How does a family dynasty manage to perpetuate their wealth and unity. It is not really an impossible problem. The key of course would be coming to a written agreement or family covenant or family trust or limited liability company.
+Paul Bras You correctly point out that current family and relationship structures are an important part of success and being financially stable in this society. That's an important part of what many people who look at polyamory (including some who decide it isn't for them) want to point out too - that monogamous relationships are kind of the underpinning of our society. We see this however, not as something to aspire to, but as social conditioning, and a way to control people, part of the larger system that creates the "worker class" for the rich. It seems like you are concerned about your welfare, your ability to provide for yourself and your family, should you have one - so are polyamorous people, and not all of us are well off, many are dirt poor like myself. The sample you are seeing are all successful because they are speaking on a panel of experts - they are not representative of the general polyamorous population in terms of wealth - how could they be - there's an inherent bias in their selection. But our concern doesn't end at the immediate family, our concern tends to be society wide, as we see the problem as being the fact that financial stability comes from obeying a system that wants to put us in boxes and keep us in worker drone mode - I can't speak for everyone, but I personally would like to see that system dismantled.
+Grace Truly One of the biggest advantages of the dismantling of the system would be the recognition of, or the return to enjoying our birthright to homestead a plot of free land without property taxes upon which we can build a life.
Jacob, if you want to translate it, I would love that. If you send it to me, I can figure out how to upload the subtitles from the transcript. Reid at ReidAboutSex dot Com is where to send it!
well after watching dozens of episodes of #sisterwives and #myfivewives, I am seeing the advantages of a non-traditional family. the Love seems very strong in those polygamy families anyways.
GalacticEgg In the west, women are more free to be self-sufficient and run their own businesses or earn their own living; so in the grateful freedom that the west offers it wouldn't necessarily require a man to support his wives. Women and Men would support themselves. And in the aspect of this form of free-love expression; the relationships would be of interdependent individuals
"I AM A GrOwN ass Women" 17:17...great dialouge WOMEN SHOULD TELL to STUPID feminists out there...if she is more beautiful why not lesb with her since she can get into his soul u should be allowed to her soul so to get her cooperation....same like adams ribs are attached to each ribs by flesh....so lesb with her...its devine plan; dont be like sarah who used the slave women and throw her and her sons generation is a threat to all as they are muslims....so god is just...dont let U BE LIKE SARAH IF U SHARE UR HUSBAND; SHARE URSELF TO THE OTHER WOMEN...BECAUSE THAT ENSURES INTERDEPENDENCE....TO MAKE UR MAN MORE EFFICIENT...slowley...or u will make real fear in him because u r 2....THINK....JESOLUSY OR INTERDEPENDENCE??? if she is more beautiful and u feel jealous...MSKE her care ur body needs ....U KNOE WHAT I MEAN....???
Solitude and celibate because I can 27/41 years and threw out almost everyone now I do not belong here. I removed people from my eternity as well as my life. I will destroy any and all attempts to connect with me
What I've learned from Poly community over the years is that everyone was neglected or abused in their childhood, especialy women. So basicaly these people are longing for love, attention and acceptance as much as they can to fill that hole, trying to figure out ways to be okay with what they're doing. It's a by the book call for therapy, but they made a whole lifestyle based on their childhood traumas.
Wouldn't it be just as fair to say that of monogamy? Aren't monogamous folks getting divorced AND staying in unhealthy marriages/monogamous relationships because of trauma, of longing for love, attention, and acceptance? Aren't folks cheating for similar reasons? And who wouldn't benefit from at least trying therapy? Who doesn't have some sort of trauma from living life? Just my $.02.
@@ReidAboutSex Yes. Anyone who stays in an unhealthy environment should know better. People I know that were raised in healthy families, are now raising healthy children and families. The ones who had parents that were unable to give enough love and attention to them during childhood and teenage years, were abused or neglected, are now having trouble maintaining healthy relationships and have fears of bonding. Especialy when it comes to women that haven't had a healthy father figure. They are trying to fill in all of that missing love trough attention of many men troughout their adult life. Each person I met in Poly community, which I've been a part of for some time, were not getting healthy amounts of love and attention during their childhood and teenage years. Even when I was at Poly meetup, each person out there that I met on personal level, had a traumatic childhood, or were just neglected or didn't recieve enough love or attention, thanks to one or both of their parents. I'm speaking only from my own personal experiences and studies.
@@josiptook4058 can you say which poly community you are a part of? I ask because you mentioned a conclusion about everyone in the poly community being neglected or abused during childhood. Seems like a big call and hasn't been my experience. Sure, I have met people who have been abused during childhood, but I can't say it's evident that people in monogamy were abused less than those in poly.
I don't understand how it's ok to have sex with other women and then go back home to your "main gf" like ummm isn't that justifying infidelity? and I feel like it's plain disrespectful and down right perverse. As a woman, I have enough respect for myself to know my value and do not want to be shared or passed around like an object. Women have been objectified enough for years. I feel like Polyamory isn't really a relationship, it's more like the same thing as "friends with benefits" where you can't possibly be head over heels for that person, and then go out and fuck other people you know what I mean....like when you have a really deep love for someone, you can't feel that same exact way for 5 other people. that just means you haven't figured out what you want yet and are still testing the waters and that's fine, but I do not think that it should be considered a relationship, it's basically just open dating. but like I said if you truly love somebody, it would cause you pain to see them having sex with somebody else. i'm sorry. If it doesn't, that either means you don't love them as deep as you think, or you are a psychopath who lacks emotions. In my opinion, it is a selfish way of saying hey I want a blonde girl on sundays, a brunette on mondays, that big booty latina on thursdays, and hmmm I'm feeling that cute asian girl on friday. It's a selfish way of satisfying all of your desires, which I understand might feel good, especially if you have multiple tastes like hmm i like muscular guys but also skinny guys WHY NOT BOTH I"LL SHARE THEM lol but I think it's an important virtue in life to understand that we as humans should practice some sort of discipline and restraint. It's good to be happy and satisfy ourselves, but over-indulgence of anything whether it's sex, food, etc can become addictive. That is why these kinds of people are like "hey why settle for one person when I can have as many as I want right?" Again it is up to you how you want to live your life, but I do believe that there could be some harmful psychological effects of polyamory/polygamy such as feeling used, worthless, jealous, replaceable, lack of emotional attachment/inability to truly love, etc
It sounds like you haven't actually listened to what the polyamorous have to say about love, jealousy, and infidelity. It's fine to say "that's not for me", but what are you saying shows you aren't really listening, just waiting for your turn on the soapbox. There are definitely difficulties, and it is not for everyone, but it is not inherently harmful.
Marriage means stablity...and shelter...and "abundance"...so lesbian relations in polyamourous relation is the solution...not men becoming gay telling its for survival and natural to be beta...BECOMING SENSUAL MORE THAN MEN....
Esther keep up the greatness Little Angel...see people are honest to u than what u want to hear ".ALWAYS"...open relationships are bad....but fight for rights to polyamorous legally....if gay men can marry saying its survival & natural instinct why not allow polyamourous marriage which is divine instict and natural as men want sex more naturally....
I like the 38 th minute too...about real connections and real wants....though not everything about u...that fantasy of quuen in 48th minute is also insightful....h
Plural marriage was practiced throughout scripture, God caused many plural families to form with a man having multiple wives. However as a christian i do not accept anything that is outside of what God allows in his word as acceptable.
Uhm, seems like all pagan Christians, the comment you make is clear as mud. Yes, I was a pagan Christian once, too, and when I read what our Creator had recorded in His Living Word in the Original, not the contorted pagan-multi-deity focused bastard Bible, it became clear that Satan continues to pervert Creation with every form of sexual perversion imaginable, including the monogamy Deception. It is clear that you serve the pagan Christian Church, not Creator. In retrospect, I was once in your shoes, not knowing that I did not know Father's Original Family Plan. PM me for more, dear man, if you honestly seek Original Family Plan pointers for you to make your own informed investigation.
Claude Armstrong Not sure what you are saying or implying? It has become clear to me that God never forbid plural marriage anywhere in scripture, new or old testament. A man can take a 2nd or 3rd wife and that is not sin or wrong in itself. Just look at king David, or Jacob ect.
@thefulcrum Sure, poly gently dose not work. When 3 or more people try to be in a relationship, jealousy will eventually seep in. What seems minor quickly becomes major. If kids are involved, it's worse. Who are the parents, who disciplines them. How do the kids handle 2 moms or 2 dad's. This whole thing is a bad idea.
Except there is one problem. For men particularly, we all secretly want to have the freedom to explore other lovers, while simultaneously having the ones we are in love with be sexually loyal to us. It's been a driving factor in evolution. So allowing our female partner to have sex with others is too high a price to pay. This can be all simplified by remembering that ethics and morals are a human invention. The world we live in has and always will be governed by POWER. If you hold the cards and bring all the value, you can have 20 partners who are all monogamous to you.
Umm... No. We definitely don't all want that. What you're talking about is known as an OPP (one penis policy) in poly lingo and is generally frowned upon for being unfair and sexist. Sorry to say, but "morals are invented by people and are imaginary" isn't justification for acting immaturely and unethically. If you want to behave maturely and fairly, then take responsibility for your own insecurities instead of putting them on your partners to compromise their own agency and autonomy to accommodate them.
I'm sorry if that was your experience. Talking into something that is counter to their best interests is not good relationship leadership whether it's monogamy, polyamory, platonic or professional flavours.
None of these people take the time to truly understand why they feel the way they do and do the things they do so they just say fuck it and not even trying
I wonder why she doesn't want to tell her husband about the sexual experiences with other men. Maybe because she knows it will destroy him. These people are disgusting
"Be as self-expressed as I can and see who is attracted to THAT" - yes! Perfectly put. The attraction model requires so much guessing
Great analogy with music at 12:15! Starting bands with people who love the same music; studying classical music but then slipping out of the tracks to play some jazz!
I have watched this for 5 times so far. Every time I watch it, I take something away and process it in my head. And every time I listen again I pick up something else up. Each time I watch it just affirms my choices in life.
"Think of relationships like you think of music." That analogy is great!
Yeah sure... lets comodify music and people
@gangliums people have always been a commodity. Tou can get insured like a house or a stolen car. There is a job market where you have given value based on your skills, education, and experience. There is also dating market where you are being judged even more.
I wish this had a diverse panel and that it was a debate not a sermon.
Great discussion and excellent speakers! I wish they had talked a bit or given examples of non-hierarchical polyamory, because not all polyamory follows the primary/secondary model.
Thank you, everyone, for chiming in and continuing the discourse! Thumbs up on that!
You were hilarious! Thank you for sharing with us your ideas and experiences. :)
"You cannot have only one script for something that complicated."
insightful. thanks for the generous time on the discussion.
I felt that Esther was walking a line and was not for or against Monogamy or Polyamory. She is a marriage counsellor and sex Coach. She is making a lot of money pitching her courses on line "How to bring passion backing into the marriage" but blessing the woman or man that rather have sex with many. Which is fine, but I have not come across a course for "How to bring passion back into the primary relationship because your partner is tired of you and has many sexual options" Diana talked about starting a family without discussing the implications it will have on children, yes Gay people have children, and while they may seem stable, they are at this time in history a huge minority. and Children are tough. Polyamory is not wrong or right it is what it is, I think at this time it is the Wild West, and the dust has not settled.
Fun, entertaining, informative. You guys are part of my 'crash course' introduction to poly - something that is emerging in my own relationships - and I feel like I'm in the right place
THIS IS INCREDIBLE OF A DISCUSSION! WOW! The insights the powerful discussion and beautiful awareness notes, OMG Thank you for this This is BRILLIANT!!!
This has been very important for me. It's so hard to find information on this. I'm so confused, and this sort of content helps me. I just wish there was more.
i will be talking about this on my page in the coming months, stay tuned. hopefully i can help and lead you to other resources
Normal relationships have this too It's called friendship This is how we connect And learn from each other Without sleeping with each other If you Can't be Is this how you get your life Do your own thing Polyemry It's not for me I will share my life with one partner in friends and family why do find that one partner passion my love my desire going to be for her in my life force are going to be sure with that person at the end of day I did my job I hate my friends when I come home she gets my love am I fiction we'll sit down talk about our day now be nice👌👍
Totally agree...they look it seems like you can't be complete with one partner... it's like 2 people relationships are the closest thing to die alive and I think that only happens when you don't get the right match and honestly I think they are lazy people that want the benefits from a relationship but not the commitment...look it's more probable you die before you get to know someone entirely so guess...you get involved with 10 people more besides your partner do you get even know this people for real at some point?... honestly I think this is the kind of relationship that people with Peter pan sindrome want: having sex friends for ever
“ I’m going to do everything to make you happy x I’m going to do what makes me happy and find people that like that” 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks for sharing this footage. Very insightful!
Very complex topic and life situations. Discussion is always helpful but there are no clear answers, formulas or examples to follow.
Truly depends on the individuals involved, and the situations continually change - life happens.
If approached in a responsible, adult manner, can be a liberating and rewarding way to live.
profound comment from Ester at 1:24:50 about caring for people who are losing their faculties (comes to all of us!) and remaining a human being while you care. Difficult subject to touch upon; appreciate
Yeah, I got the feels when she mentioned this
I wish there was closed captioning or subtitles for this.
I transcribed this, if helpful: "Audience Q: Are there more men who want to have open relationships than women?
Esther Perel: "The poly community is very female-dominated, in fact a lot of the outspoken leaders and authors are female. Throughout all of history, it has been completely sanctioned for men to acknowledge that they are polyamorous, in fact it is strengthening to men who acknowledge it, and it has been the opposite for women. If we stop thinking that women are less interested in sex and that in long-term relationships they lose all interest in sex because they are less desirous of sex and instead, we looked at maybe in fact women are more quickly bored with monogamy than men, but the only permission they have had is to say they are not interested in sex, rather than they are interested in other sex. We actually know more and more from research that women lose interest sexually much sooner, not because they aren’t interested in sex but they have no interest in the sex they’re gonna have. We don’t actually know that much about female sexuality since it has been controlled forever. Yet if women were so uninterested in sex, why did every society spend so much energy in controlling female sexuality? That doesn’t add up to me. Most studies that look at sex look at intercourse, in and out, and that is a very male definition of sexuality. If we look at the entire range of physical and sensual expression, maybe we would realize that women aren’t that less sexual than men."
Hey! Fantastic panel discussion! I'd like to more easily reference some of the content -- anyone know if there's a transcript floating around anywhere…?
I transcribed this, if helpful: "Audience Q: Are there more men who want to have open relationships than women?
Esther Perel: "The poly community is very female-dominated, in fact a lot of the outspoken leaders and authors are female. Throughout all of history, it has been completely sanctioned for men to acknowledge that they are polyamorous, in fact it is strengthening to men who acknowledge it, and it has been the opposite for women. If we stop thinking that women are less interested in sex and that in long-term relationships they lose all interest in sex because they are less desirous of sex and instead, we looked at maybe in fact women are more quickly bored with monogamy than men, but the only permission they have had is to say they are not interested in sex, rather than they are interested in other sex. We actually know more and more from research that women lose interest sexually much sooner, not because they aren’t interested in sex but they have no interest in the sex they’re gonna have. We don’t actually know that much about female sexuality since it has been controlled forever. Yet if women were so uninterested in sex, why did every society spend so much energy in controlling female sexuality? That doesn’t add up to me. Most studies that look at sex look at intercourse, in and out, and that is a very male definition of sexuality. If we look at the entire range of physical and sensual expression, maybe we would realize that women aren’t that less sexual than men."
Thank you for reinforcing the idea that there's so many ways to do this. I'm monogamous with my boyfriend, his girlfriend and I are the only two in his life, and my best friend in the world (his girlfriend) dates other men and women regularly. And we're SO happy.
Cat would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this two years later. Thanks!
@@traceyfernandez5910 Two years later we got a house! I've been accepted as Mom #2 by my best friend's kids, she still dates and I'm still monogamous with our mutual partner. Really, me and her being able to be friends and all three of us carefully and thoughtfully constructing our own boundaries to respect everyone else's relationships has allowed this to work. We've had our hard times just like any other couple or poly situation, we just make a point to talk through everything and work out our own issues. As Ian below this comment pointed out - not all poly have the primary/secondary model. For us - all three of us serve as one unit and anyone who is dated from the outside has a chance to grow and become part of our unit or can stay a more 'secondary' style separate situation. What we really learned through all this is to not let anyone else make up our rules. There are books and podcasts and videos saying how it CAN go - but ultimately do whatever works for you and feels right to your heart. Society doesn't get a say, your Mom doesn't get a say, your best friend doesn't get a say. And if Society wants to look at you sideways because you're out with a man who's kissing your best friend and you back-to-back, stick your tongue out at them and move on. :)
@@catwilson8987 your response was so timely. THANK YOU!!
Hi Cat, pls give an update.
Jealousy. Would. Kill. Me! ... Mine, mine, mine.
Yeah, glad you aren't running in my circles. Too greedy and self-centred.
It's not for everybody. This might kill you, but I know people who being with only one person would kill them. For me - I AM with only one person, but I'm so introverted that if HE didn't have another partner to spend time with I would probably kill him! :) Everyone's got their own take. Thanks for being open minded enough to listen to the concept. That's more than a lot of people do anymore.
@@catwilson8987 exactly, about their open mindedness. i know that open in any form wont work for me but i respect that it does for others and the fact that the person above knows their limitation is great. hopefully less destruction that way..
Wow! Such an educated and insightful discussion. Thank you to the amazing panelists for sharing your pearls with the world.
sorry to be off topic but does anybody know of a method to log back into an instagram account..?
I stupidly lost the login password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me
@Remington Tanner Instablaster =)
What the person on the right says about having to pick your poison between jealousy and wanting to have sex with other people can be avoided.
I used to believe monogamous relationships weren't for me after my ex girlfriend of almost 2yrs and me broke up(constantly missed freedom/felt trapped). But after I met a special woman ,almost 3 months ago, I am not even in a relationship with yet, but have really strong feelings for, my perspective on the matter changed.
I think it is more about finding someone who is worth sacrificing a bit of day to day fun for long term joy and affection. Because once you make the evaluation of the superior importance of the feelings you and your significant other share you automatically become less intrigued by other people. For example after me and this, to me, magical woman met and connected I had sex with someone else. I decided a couple of days later that sex is not worth it to break the connection with the woman that is actually important to me (I also told her that it happened). After I came to this conclusion whenever there has been temptation, it definitely was still there, it actually felt good to resist it.
In essence, you won't have to feel bad about missing out on amazing sex because you know that what you have with this one person is more rewarding. For example having a deep connection of trust.
In my opinion a relationship, that is not fulfilling enough to an extent where you constantly look towards other people sexually, should be ended, so both parties can look for better matches.
Thank you for sharing. I think a tricky thing is that depth is conflated with monogamy.
I have had romantic partnerships that were deeper in polyamory than in monogamy.
I'd be surprised if I was the only one.
Also, I'm happy for you :)
Exactly.. that's the real problem here and no one it's seeing it...people get bored in most monogamous relationships because they are not a good match and why is that? Most of all because they don't talk enough to get to know the other part, they don't know actually how to communicate without argue because they bring all their past failures over the new person, so of course, with this background monogamy is for no one
Well that was incredible... I wish they would've had more time to discuss some topics further and I wish that someone was there to describe the non-heriarchal relationship models (no primary/secondary, relationship anarchy, etc.), but overall, REALLY wonderful insights. SO helpful, inspiring, and invigorating.
This was wonderful. Perel and the rest of the panel was phenomenal.
Esther Perel is the ultimat woman, god damn!!!
Great discussion but I wish the entire video's audio was equalized. Or maybe if the audience wasn't mic'd during the conversation. The speakers were quiet so I turn the volume up, but then the laughter was SOO loud and sudden. Realllly fucking annoying. Thank you for posting the content though!
Esther Perel does not belong on this panel. She should be speaking and the rest of the panel should sit in the audience.
You need to stop judging and open your mind to listen to their individual experiences. They are for our benefit. If you don't want to hear them out, turn off the video and gtfo with your negativity and unfair judgment. 👋
That makes no sense. You say she should be the only one foraking, and also that she doesn't belong. Make up your mind.
16:30
I just wanted to save at this point
For the panel to be complete they needed a priest to honestly talk the traditional way to offer the other way without being a taboo
this was such a beautiful panel, was very enlightening and helpful
I always enjoy Esther Perel and it was fun to listen to Reid and Diana. The most important message for me was; if you are going to participate as Polyamory; find those that also want to live this lifestyle. Trying to change someone from a monogamos belief into a Poly way of life is not healthy. What has not been resolved is family matters and legal matters, Comparing love hormones in an early relationship to Crack Cocain was wrong. Even the feeling is completely different; cocain kills sexual urge, crack cocain destroys lives. I also wonder what is the difference between an Escort who sees many men for money and a woman who want to be with many men with out pay?
11:58 Do Diana and Esther know each other well? It's intriguing how Esther hands Diana the glass she just drank from.
The Moderator is great:)
LOVE Esther Perel! Sybil Francis PhD clinical psychologist/professor
How does one even begin to look for people open to this that aren’t actually gross swingers
I was in a marriage for 20 years and I was miserable it just got so boring so I've definitely thought about this lifestyle. But one of my problems is I get attached and then that's when the jealousy sets in 😂
I hear you, but all relationships can get "boring" eventually. Even if you were to date three different people simultaneously, you could get bored of them all given enough time, and just seek out others. Relationships require so much work, and novel shared experiences to keep things exciting over the course of many years. But still, don't expect to get all of your entertainment and fulfillment from romantic relationships.
Seems like instead of being in relationship with one person, you are making a collage of many of them. Collage of only good parts, of course (unless you are lucky to meet only super evolved individuals)
I dont know if we are designed for that much less if we can connect to anyone really that way. Emotions and love may be genuinly limitless but time and energy (and money usually) are not, and we still live in physical world... good luck :)
Thanks...some one really mature here... it looks like they have just one bad experience in past with one particular person and they didn't heal for real because maybe didn't took the time for that so they are avoiding that happens again at any cost so the best way to achieve that is just to have this collage of people who only is going to give you the best of them all the time of course because you don't live with them, so you don't need to deal with their problems
Excellent conversation, I took lots of notes! 💜
Glad it was helpful, Alice!
Only on this channel only.
As a clinical psychologist I have found in 40 yrs of practice that YES women get bored with the sex they HAVE in monogamy. The mam often get into a same routine,,there is no more sexual exploration of the partner, the ams perspnal hygiene may slip that can happen to women but not as often. Men forget about romance, wooing of any kind,,sex become perfunctory and the woman is not stimulated emotionally or physically. Life looses its zest and the woman shuts down sexually.The woman just gives up and doesnt want sex anymore. Sybil Francis PhD clinical psychologist/professor
Even though they comment that the poly community isn't gender skewed and is more female dominated when it comes to putting these things into practice there's a lot more guys ready to go in open / poly relationships than women. I've seen many posts of people opening up their relationships and the male in the relationship struggles to find partners / matches and their female partner has no problem lining up the prospects; although to be fair the poly community mentions its not a competition (but at the same its definitely a challenge that needs to be overcome unless you're dating / hooking up as a couple with other couples)
I am a huge esther fan but they were all super cool!!
Would these (academic) people think differently if they lost their prosperity? I am convinced that they would. These are results of accesses. Prosperity is based on building blocks of a stable and monogamous marriage based families. When a man passes away which of his 8 females gets the deed to his house (and what does that "fight" look like)? The son of which of his wives takes over the family business. Prosperity derives in part from one generation building upon the prior generation's prosperity. In lower income families prosperity derives in part from multiple working people having only one set of bills for living expenses. These people take accesses of our cushy prosperity and way of living and confuse that wealth with not having to be responsible for nurturing our prosperity, instilling stability and preparing our youth, and cultivating our culture through the means of tradition.
Who will take care of children, not when they are one or two years old but when college payments are due? When a 13 year old girl needs a trusting mother to confide in because she experienced her first period, which one of the multiple mothers is it going to be? Which father is going to talk to his son when he has his first girlfriend and offer the emotional guidance.
These people talk about monogamous marriages as failed concepts, pointing out the rates of divorce and adultery, when it is the proliferation of the lifestyles that they advocate that are among the causes for traditional lifestyles to experience such hardships.
Narcissistic and immature in my opinion. Every one fantasizes about wild, variety laden sex with multiple partners and it's great when we are 18. Doesn't mean that we should live this way during our child rearing age and hold symposiums, advocating this garbage and influencing horny people in order to feed a self justification need which is just another manifestation of narcissism and immaturity.
grow up!
+Paul Bras "When a 13 year old girl needs a trusting mother to confide in because she experienced her first period, which one of the multiple mothers is it going to be?"The one she feels most comfortable discussing it with, presumably. In fact the nuclear family is very much a construct of the industrial age. Before then people lived in extended family groups which were probably a much more stable and nurturing environment. In fact the monogamous nuclear family is a myth rather than a fact - 10% of women in Victorian London (with its strict moral codes and family values) were prostitutes. One thing you have right, the influence of affluence. There was less divorce in the past because people (particularly women) were stuck in relationships for financial reasons. The fact that that is no longer the case in developed countries is a positive thing, not a negative one.Personally I think there's nothing more immature than jealousy.
+Paul Bras It seems you mention problems that are so easily solved by intelligent adults. If you gave them very much thought you could come up with some viable suggestions yourself. There are many books out there about how to handle financial planning and family organization... How does a family dynasty manage to perpetuate their wealth and unity. It is not really an impossible problem. The key of course would be coming to a written agreement or family covenant or family trust or limited liability company.
+Paul Bras You correctly point out that current family and relationship structures are an important part of success and being financially stable in this society. That's an important part of what many people who look at polyamory (including some who decide it isn't for them) want to point out too - that monogamous relationships are kind of the underpinning of our society.
We see this however, not as something to aspire to, but as social conditioning, and a way to control people, part of the larger system that creates the "worker class" for the rich. It seems like you are concerned about your welfare, your ability to provide for yourself and your family, should you have one - so are polyamorous people, and not all of us are well off, many are dirt poor like myself. The sample you are seeing are all successful because they are speaking on a panel of experts - they are not representative of the general polyamorous population in terms of wealth - how could they be - there's an inherent bias in their selection. But our concern doesn't end at the immediate family, our concern tends to be society wide, as we see the problem as being the fact that financial stability comes from obeying a system that wants to put us in boxes and keep us in worker drone mode - I can't speak for everyone, but I personally would like to see that system dismantled.
+Grace Truly One of the biggest advantages of the dismantling of the system would be the recognition of, or the return to enjoying our birthright to homestead a plot of free land without property taxes upon which we can build a life.
Polyamory is something we should all aim for.
if STDs did not exist, we would all be poly at some point in our lives.
Great discussion.
Thank you for sharing this footage! Blessings
great talk! any chance of allowing this to be translated? for instance I have many Italian friends who would love to see this.
Jacob, if you want to translate it, I would love that. If you send it to me, I can figure out how to upload the subtitles from the transcript. Reid at ReidAboutSex dot Com is where to send it!
Yes, yes, yes - to all of this.
Fantastic
See your first notes' bullet points.
pure gold
I feel really surrounded by love 😂😂😂😂
Thank you!
9:57 That's so true!!!
well after watching dozens of episodes of #sisterwives and #myfivewives, I am seeing the advantages of a non-traditional family. the Love seems very strong in those polygamy families anyways.
Sure, if the husband has enough $$$ to support all his wives.
GalacticEgg In the west, women are more free to be self-sufficient and run their own businesses or earn their own living; so in the grateful freedom that the west offers it wouldn't necessarily require a man to support his wives. Women and Men would support themselves. And in the aspect of this form of free-love expression; the relationships would be of interdependent individuals
polygamy and polyamory are different thinks
@@MsZenabel that is true it's something that many people seem to have difficulty in grasping,.
"I AM A GrOwN ass Women" 17:17...great dialouge WOMEN SHOULD TELL to STUPID feminists out there...if she is more beautiful why not lesb with her since she can get into his soul u should be allowed to her soul so to get her cooperation....same like adams ribs are attached to each ribs by flesh....so lesb with her...its devine plan; dont be like sarah who used the slave women and throw her and her sons generation is a threat to all as they are muslims....so god is just...dont let U BE LIKE SARAH IF U SHARE UR HUSBAND; SHARE URSELF TO THE OTHER WOMEN...BECAUSE THAT ENSURES INTERDEPENDENCE....TO MAKE UR MAN MORE EFFICIENT...slowley...or u will make real fear in him because u r 2....THINK....JESOLUSY OR INTERDEPENDENCE???
if she is more beautiful and u feel jealous...MSKE her care ur body needs ....U KNOE WHAT I MEAN....???
Solitude and celibate because I can 27/41 years and threw out almost everyone now I do not belong here. I removed people from my eternity as well as my life. I will destroy any and all attempts to connect with me
45:10 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Heinlein did it for Me too, read it really young.
The Church of all worlds is an actual thing....
What I've learned from Poly community over the years is that everyone was neglected or abused in their childhood, especialy women. So basicaly these people are longing for love, attention and acceptance as much as they can to fill that hole, trying to figure out ways to be okay with what they're doing. It's a by the book call for therapy, but they made a whole lifestyle based on their childhood traumas.
Wouldn't it be just as fair to say that of monogamy? Aren't monogamous folks getting divorced AND staying in unhealthy marriages/monogamous relationships because of trauma, of longing for love, attention, and acceptance? Aren't folks cheating for similar reasons? And who wouldn't benefit from at least trying therapy? Who doesn't have some sort of trauma from living life? Just my $.02.
@@ReidAboutSex Yes. Anyone who stays in an unhealthy environment should know better.
People I know that were raised in healthy families, are now raising healthy children and families.
The ones who had parents that were unable to give enough love and attention to them during childhood and teenage years, were abused or neglected, are now having trouble maintaining healthy relationships and have fears of bonding.
Especialy when it comes to women that haven't had a healthy father figure.
They are trying to fill in all of that missing love trough attention of many men troughout their adult life.
Each person I met in Poly community, which I've been a part of for some time, were not getting healthy amounts of love and attention during their childhood and teenage years.
Even when I was at Poly meetup, each person out there that I met on personal level, had a traumatic childhood, or were just neglected or didn't recieve enough love or attention, thanks to one or both of their parents.
I'm speaking only from my own personal experiences and studies.
@@josiptook4058 can you say which poly community you are a part of?
I ask because you mentioned a conclusion about everyone in the poly community being neglected or abused during childhood.
Seems like a big call and hasn't been my experience. Sure, I have met people who have been abused during childhood, but I can't say it's evident that people in monogamy were abused less than those in poly.
If people want poly don't get married stay single what the point and by all don't have kids also take precautions
God I love you guys, thank you soo much
I just love this. The more love the better. Beautiful
michelle moore I agree wholeheartedly!
I don't understand how it's ok to have sex with other women and then go back home to your "main gf" like ummm isn't that justifying infidelity? and I feel like it's plain disrespectful and down right perverse. As a woman, I have enough respect for myself to know my value and do not want to be shared or passed around like an object. Women have been objectified enough for years. I feel like Polyamory isn't really a relationship, it's more like the same thing as "friends with benefits" where you can't possibly be head over heels for that person, and then go out and fuck other people you know what I mean....like when you have a really deep love for someone, you can't feel that same exact way for 5 other people. that just means you haven't figured out what you want yet and are still testing the waters and that's fine, but I do not think that it should be considered a relationship, it's basically just open dating. but like I said if you truly love somebody, it would cause you pain to see them having sex with somebody else. i'm sorry. If it doesn't, that either means you don't love them as deep as you think, or you are a psychopath who lacks emotions. In my opinion, it is a selfish way of saying hey I want a blonde girl on sundays, a brunette on mondays, that big booty latina on thursdays, and hmmm I'm feeling that cute asian girl on friday. It's a selfish way of satisfying all of your desires, which I understand might feel good, especially if you have multiple tastes like hmm i like muscular guys but also skinny guys WHY NOT BOTH I"LL SHARE THEM lol but I think it's an important virtue in life to understand that we as humans should practice some sort of discipline and restraint. It's good to be happy and satisfy ourselves, but over-indulgence of anything whether it's sex, food, etc can become addictive. That is why these kinds of people are like "hey why settle for one person when I can have as many as I want right?" Again it is up to you how you want to live your life, but I do believe that there could be some harmful psychological effects of polyamory/polygamy such as feeling used, worthless, jealous, replaceable, lack of emotional attachment/inability to truly love, etc
Hate to break it but there's only 2 types of "monogamous" men. Those that secretly collect women or those that secretly wish they could.
It sounds like you haven't actually listened to what the polyamorous have to say about love, jealousy, and infidelity. It's fine to say "that's not for me", but what are you saying shows you aren't really listening, just waiting for your turn on the soapbox. There are definitely difficulties, and it is not for everyone, but it is not inherently harmful.
Ya is bullshit polyamory say it greed and that stupid audience laughing nervously 😂😂😂
Marriage means stablity...and shelter...and "abundance"...so lesbian relations in polyamourous relation is the solution...not men becoming gay telling its for survival and natural to be beta...BECOMING SENSUAL MORE THAN MEN....
Esther keep up the greatness Little Angel...see people are honest to u than what u want to hear ".ALWAYS"...open relationships are bad....but fight for rights to polyamorous legally....if gay men can marry saying its survival & natural instinct why not allow polyamourous marriage which is divine instict and natural as men want sex more naturally....
13:02 😂😂
I like the 38 th minute too...about real connections and real wants....though not everything about u...that fantasy of quuen in 48th minute is also insightful....h
Plural marriage was practiced throughout scripture, God caused many plural families to form with a man having multiple wives. However as a christian i do not accept anything that is outside of what God allows in his word as acceptable.
Don''t limit yourself to what the spaghetti monster wants
Uhm, seems like all pagan Christians, the comment you make is clear as mud. Yes, I was a pagan Christian once, too, and when I read what our Creator had recorded in His Living Word in the Original, not the contorted pagan-multi-deity focused bastard Bible, it became clear that Satan continues to pervert Creation with every form of sexual perversion imaginable, including the monogamy Deception.
It is clear that you serve the pagan Christian Church, not Creator. In retrospect, I was once in your shoes, not knowing that I did not know Father's Original Family Plan.
PM me for more, dear man, if you honestly seek Original Family Plan pointers for you to make your own informed investigation.
Claude Armstrong Not sure what you are saying or implying? It has become clear to me that God never forbid plural marriage anywhere in scripture, new or old testament. A man can take a 2nd or 3rd wife and that is not sin or wrong in itself. Just look at king David, or Jacob ect.
Ryan Ehlis It does say that it is a sacred union between a man and woman... not men and women
+Ryan Ehlis Imaginary friends are no basis for mission planning.
Give 30m likes.
The woman in the middle is really annoying.ester perel is brilliant.
If you want to destroy a relationship, this will do it.
Could you be clearer on what the "this" you're referring to is?
@thefulcrum Sure, poly gently dose not work. When 3 or more people try to be in a relationship, jealousy will eventually seep in. What seems minor quickly becomes major. If kids are involved, it's worse. Who are the parents, who disciplines them. How do the kids handle 2 moms or 2 dad's. This whole thing is a bad idea.
Except there is one problem. For men particularly, we all secretly want to have the freedom to explore other lovers, while simultaneously having the ones we are in love with be sexually loyal to us. It's been a driving factor in evolution. So allowing our female partner to have sex with others is too high a price to pay.
This can be all simplified by remembering that ethics and morals are a human invention. The world we live in has and always will be governed by POWER.
If you hold the cards and bring all the value, you can have 20 partners who are all monogamous to you.
Umm... No. We definitely don't all want that. What you're talking about is known as an OPP (one penis policy) in poly lingo and is generally frowned upon for being unfair and sexist. Sorry to say, but "morals are invented by people and are imaginary" isn't justification for acting immaturely and unethically. If you want to behave maturely and fairly, then take responsibility for your own insecurities instead of putting them on your partners to compromise their own agency and autonomy to accommodate them.
Swinger occultists
This is indulgent cringe.
Not as cringe as you. Get a life.
Yep
Poly?? usually someone is talked into it.
Just give it time for the truth to come out.
People are over sexed. World is so messed up.
I'm sorry if that was your experience. Talking into something that is counter to their best interests is not good relationship leadership whether it's monogamy, polyamory, platonic or professional flavours.
The fact these people see monogamy as hell says everything you need to know about these people
That they’re more advanced than you, Gordon?
@@markmello1366 sure
A relationship without sex is nothing more than a friendship. And a friendship with sex will inevitably lead to feelings
He's a better gaslighter not a better communicator
Can you say selfish
None of these people take the time to truly understand why they feel the way they do and do the things they do so they just say fuck it and not even trying
A real healthy monogamous relationship won't have monotony
I wonder why she doesn't want to tell her husband about the sexual experiences with other men. Maybe because she knows it will destroy him. These people are disgusting
You're with the wrong person if you need or want other people
Absolutely 0 self control sexualy
Nothing but the need for validation through sex
I wish someone in the audience called out these horrendous people
This does not work. It only works through gaslighting and trauma bonding
I wish ester would have called these disgusting people out instead of basically agreeing with them
Making sacrifices is a higher form of strength than indulging in all your wants or whatever will ever be. Extremely weak people do this
If monogamy is a huge sacrifice for you, kinda sounds like you shouldn't be doing it
Open relationship people are actually a threat to society
I wish his dad disowned him
Open relationships of all kinds have a 98% failure rate
These people should NEVER be in a relationship
I hope they all end up single and alone for the rest of their life. THIS IS NOT A RELATIONSHIP
If you need or want to sleep with other people you are not with the right person
Gaslighting at it's finest
These people are so unbelievably delusional
None of these people have any form of self-respect