I believe an inversion of Gods law or if your non religious natural law was a method used by this sect from my studies there was a lot of hermetic influence on these beliefs Hermes (Hermaphrodite) Greek Hellenistic and Egyptian beliefs also tied to Enochian magic influences still evident in todays System. Please Dr. Abramson do a segment on the Book of Enoch fragments found in Dead Sea Scrolls extremely important to what is transpiring today!
@@HenryAbramsonPhD I have viewed several of your video lessons & find them outstanding, thank you! I have always had a huge interest in History & Pre-history, especially in my own Jewish history. My great grandfather brought a set of encyclopedias with him when he immigrated to America in 1906. They were published in the mid 1860’s. My Zada left them to my dad & he gave them to me. Dad told me the books & a large menorah my sister has, were the only possessions they brought with them from Russia. I read them from cover to cover when I was of Bar Mitzvah age & then again years later when I was a young man. I am 67 years old now & I remember the section on false messiahs very clearly. I have the books in boxes but I don’t know what to do with them, any suggestions?
Another great lecture! Thank you Dr. Abramson! I’ve always been interested in history (as an enthusiastic amateur) but before discovering this channel would have described myself as agnostic toward Jewish history. Now I can’t get enough! You’re combination of erudition and enthusiasm make me look forward to each new video. Thanks again and your students are very lucky to have you!
What a great lecture ! Thanks for clarifying antinomian behavior as related to Judaism and to ST ! So interesting how he requested a Yom Kippur prayer book before death, he must have realized he had made tremendous mistakes for himself and others in his life and in some way wanted to do tsuvah (repentance), unless this was a final act of antinomianism...
Dr. Abramson. Thank-you for your scholarship, I have learnt a lot. Can you please elucidate more on the modern impact of this cult, the migration and practices of families that have maintained their beliefs, not just in Turkey, but globally. Mass movements like this never vanish, but they may change. I have read of families keeping their 'faith' as a very private thing, concerned about persecution, passing down sacred family manuscripts etc. How were the cultists treated? Did this lead to immigration? Do you have any reference material relating to modern sabbateanism? Thank-you in advance.
Golden lecture Dr. Abrahamson! That's the second time you actually made an impact and detailed description of RABBI SHABBETAI TSVI. I watched the first edition today. Thank you for the light you bring the world. Good work as usual. May Hashem bless your work. Kol Tov!
@@HenryAbramsonPhD I would love to send a copy of my book "A Jew in Islam" to you. How could I send it? And thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I am learning a lot with you.
Great talk explaining that heresy that did so much harm and confused so many , in this fallen world crazy people always gather a faithful body of followers . I had read about that movement from the writings of Rabi Marvin Antelmann a few years back . Thank you for your enlightening lectures , I’m an evangelical Christian who greatly enjoy Biblical history and you are a great expositor of it . I believe that those heretical movements have fueled anti Semitism through the centuries because the gentiles and demagogues who attempt to use them bundle up all of Judaism into some kind of heretical off the wall sect which is incorrect . Many people still believe that the “ Jews” were behind Bolshevism and the authors of it and even though there were revolutionaries that were Jewish they fail to see that many of those revolutionaries , both Jews and gentiles , ended up in front of firing squads like Yezhov , or languished away in sone labor camp or were assassinated in exile like Trotsky . Thank you sir your lectures are very important .
Looking forward to the premiere--if you're really interested, please note that Channel Members get advance access to all videos. This one has been up for a week or so now!
I live in Charedi community in Israel an hardly anyone talks about him. If they do say anything people refer to him as a liar. But it is my opinion, Tsvi believed that he was the Messiah and Nathan promoted it. BTW if you mention Nathan of Gaza, people do not know who he is. Oh if you mention Gershom Scholem, people call him a heretic and do not take anything he wrote, says seriously.
He needs to accomplish a series of tasks which include fighting wars for his nation, bringing the Jews back to Israel and rebuilding the Temple. World peace and the resurrection of the dead will follow.
@@joshwander7007 thank you. It’s funny how people think they can second-guess God….. Jesus was Awake like Buddha. He is an immortal, divine being. Like everyone of us. Kabbalah teaches things like that - and if you study Torah carefully, you will understand that. Psalm 82
Most of what I'd known about this comes from the relevant entries in the Encyclopedia Judaica, which were written by Gershom Scholem. They are a tour de force! Are there things in those Encyclopedia Judaica entries that we now know to be incorrect? I live in Beer-Sheva, and have thought about looking for historical remnants of Nathan of Gaza. Is there anything extant that a somewhat educated tourist could visit? I love crackpots and learning about colorful extremes in history.
It could have been interesting if Umberto Eco had incorporated some Shabbetai Tsvi material into Foucault's Pendulum. Too late to write to him to suggest it. I wonder if Shabbetai Tsvi shows up much in the thoughts of the erudite and deranged conspiracy theorists who focus on the Templars, the Rosicrucians, the Freemasons, et al.
@@RichardTasgal Sabbateanism - or rather Frankism - did influence a lot of the later Christian-based occultic movements and probably found its ultimate expression in 20th century charismatic occultists like Aliester Crowley and his twice-removed-sort-of-disciple L. Ron Hubbard.
He also told them he’s waiting for R’ Nechemia the greatest Kabbalist in Poland to come visit him . R’ nechemia came ( this was already at the time he was locked in prison with privileges). They argued for three days non stop except for small intervals of naps. R’ Nechmia argued that Shabtai Tzvi can’t be the messiah since Messiah son of Joseph [which Nechemia claimed to be!! ] has not revealed himself. When Nechemia realised his life is in danger after calling him an imposter and a charlatan. Called out to the Muslim guards that he’d like to convert to Islam therefore falling under their protection. He asked for the favour of donning the Muslim turban to be brought immediately to the sultan. His request granted him audience by the sultan. He laid out for the sultan that the Jews by no fault of their own are being conned by an imposter . This imposter wants to take the crown off your head and is guilty of treason. R’ Nechemia took off from turkey threw away the turban . He ran around the Scandinavian countries that never had a Jewish population. To gather the Nitzotzot from the klipa there . R’ Yakov Emden writes he saw him as an old man מוכת שחין in Amsterdam years later.
The Ta”z sent his son and son in law to check out this messiah. They made their trek from Poland. They recounted all that befell the Jews in Poland. He said they needn’t tell him as he has the Sefer צוק העתים on his table. He also sang a beautiful song in the order of the alef bet at the letter ז he cried bitterly saying זכור עניים ומרודים . He also took of one vest that he was wearing and told the son in law R”Leib to put it on the ailing aging Ta”z for a segula. R’ yeshaya the son of the Ta”z protested saying but I’m his son and he answered in Yiddish שווייגט and gave him a piece of sugar for a segaula. It’s not clear what they reported back since not much after this he was unmasked. I heard from my Rebbe that they observed him being שוכב פרקדן , probably a euphemism for something of immoral behaviour. They were only polite for their safety .
The main sources to go to are the ציץ נובל צבי from one of the only respected rabbis to oppose bitterly the ש״ץ . The Rabbi of Amsterdam R’ Yakov Shashport. Also זאת תורת הקנאות from R’ Yakov Emden a fascinating account of that time and it’s aftermath.
Also at the End of the Taz's sons' visit by Sh.Zevi, they asked if he can do something about a libelous priest back in Poland.. so he immediately pulled out a cabbage from his garden.. and at that moment priest dropped dead...From this the Taz realized it was black magic (שוכב פרקדן , meaning he slept on his back like an am haaretz ignoramus.)
thaks henry on youre lecture on shabbetai tsvi i first learnt about him from a guy named david icke ,he sometimes has some conspiracy theories but he did give me some educational material about him i heard his followers called the doumah means to turn either way although they converted to islam they still practiced sabbatiean beliefs jacob frank i heard proclaimed himself as a decendant of shabbaetai interesting lecture
I'm a non Jew taking public classes to try to understand Jewish POV point of view of G-d. The Rabbi there says that a lot of really bad things have to be fulfilled according to the Bible for that to happen. So I'm not looking forward to it much less if an org or gov did a false flag messiah, what would that look like and how would we know? Would all three faiths accept him or would the world break out into war?
Did I just hear right, 1 day mourning the Messiah yet 9 days mourning a Temple... A guy claiming to be an embodiment of the Messiah could levitate and disagreed with the status quo and was ousted and pushed to convert to Islam. With all do respect how is it you believe the Messiah will return yet when someone appears to be the Messiah he is rejected. I wonder how people would treat anyone who claimed to be the Messiah or and embodiment of the Messiah today. Are you expecting the same man to return somehow? Who amongst you would not be ousted for declaring an individual as being the Messiah? Would anyone but a Jewish speaking person who looks like one of the many faces of Jesus/Jeshua portrayed centuries after his death by people who never knew the messiah nor saw his face to depict it. Is there an image or portrait of the messiah from the time period he was alive I am not aware of? What would it really take to accept the messiah might not actually remember how to speak a particular dialect, might not look the same, could perhaps even be female, may have disagreements with the teachings or translations, may be of a different mindset and could well be a number of things less impressive than people might expect. What will it take for people to accept the Messiah may never have left and be channeling himself in spirit through various people over the ages. Will anything ever be enough to show people what they may be blinded to? Anyone who proclaims they are the Messiah is quickly branded a heretic, suffering granduor and being mentally ill. I'm not saying this to question Jewish faith but the messiah can only be who you allow the messiah to be, what conforms to preconceptions and expectations. Even if he stood before you right now, would you accept him for who/what he is or reject him because he is unable to prove his identity? Do you really know him or are you a fanatical fan? Do the fans of celebrities truly know the celebrity they adore so deeply or do they only know their image and what they are shown by the media? You can know everything about a person but can you truly know someone you never met or even seen in the flesh? How can you truly know someone who is still discovering themselves or yet to discover themselves? If you were to study the psychology of someone I wonder how well you would come to know them? You may recognise traits of them or understand elements of them but would you truly know them, or just enough to believe you know enough about them to define them as something or another? For a long time the Bible was perceived as having a literal meaning yet although it is a work of literature, not everything should be taken literally. Was it really jesus people loved or hated, or was it his mind/perception of things they loved or hated? Did jesus really forgive people for all sins, or did he forgive people for condemning him because he saw that his words of wisdom fell on deaf ears. If you take philosophy for example, a single quote made by a revered scholar can be perceived differently by a diversity of people of different mind sets, and so the meaning is deep to some but of face value to others. Wisdom teachings suffer the same interpretation problems. 3 wise men came to Jesus bearing gifts. They likely stuck with him and passed on their wisdom to him, yet people perceive the bible as literal when it is, but it is also steeped in wisdom and intended to be open to interpretation in order for it to be more widely acceptable to all, united under one God whilst respecting the gods of others, of which there were and still are millions of gods, broken down into gods of everything in life, which are all parts of the same whole just as each part of life is a part of life, not the complete life. A bad day is a bad day and good day is a good day. The good and bad are parts of life, even though life may feel good or bad. The Bible was a masterpiece composed of some of the greatest minds and pieced together by more great minds. How can someone truly understand or comprehend the wisdom contained in words spoken or written if people are not wise enough themselves to truly understand what was actually said? Jesus, being enlightened, recognised this fundamental truth, and so he forgave people for their lack of understanding for he knew it was not their fault they did not understand. Such things are the reasons why the wisest amongst us prefer to say little, but find they must say alot in order for people to understand what is actually being said. Many things are mind boggling enough as they are and a realisation of today may be revealed, but overturned and even realised as an error after saying it to others. If you have experienced this you will know what I mean, so simply and humbly I say life is a lesson we are yet to learn, just as the Bible is a book people may know everything about yet little about what is actually contained in the book. Even a book in itself has symbolic and implied meanings. I ask you, can a rectangle only be a rectangle? Or is there so much more contained and/or implied? Further more, if I took 2 books and rotated them away to pivot on a corner, and overlapped them, a VW shape could be made. The v at top, the w on the bottom. A square could be formed by an overlap also and the rectangular shapes lost, yet the 2 books remain rectangles. It is the perception of them that is altered. If you compare the bible to the Torah the Bible says the answers are contained within the book whilst the Torah is said to contain the answers tor the reader as a relative book of the readers life. The Bible implies the teachings are so profound they are relative to each readers circumstances in life, which are answers that the creator/s of the Bible should have been able to find the answers within themselves, being the creators of the book that contains all the answers. The Torah is like a brother or sister to the bible. It also contains the answers. It implies the answers can be found within the Torah and within the self. What does the creation of the Torah and Bible truly imply about god/the creator? It is not my intention to tell people what to believe or perceive so all I can ask of people is to think about things and make of things what they will... 🙏❤️
Mostly Jews in Denmark came from Russia, fleeing from progromes in several periods. My grandfather came from Hamburg though. And I do indeed love your jokes!
I think it's in Psalms but the OT does plainly say the bible is a book of dark sayings and parables. Some Christians claim the coming of Christ is a spirit of G-d coming onto mankind in mass not a man in the clouds. Not Christ but that similar idea of G-d presence coming upon mankind, could that be an understanding of the messiah in Jewish belief, the outpouring of G-ds spirit upon the Earth? As a non-Jew the Noah Hyde laws freak me out not because they are bad but I see how badly humans screwed up and manipulated the laws of the land and sea. How much more could be done with the NH laws if G-d's spirit was not strong in the vast majority.
Nathan of Gaza's kabbalistic point of view was very innovative. It is very similar to the left path tantric approach on how to become enlightened. But one of the main differences is that Nathan focused only on the Messiah and his function in the universe.
I wonder if the timing in history of Shabbetai Tsvi living just when printed material was available to the masses would create resistance and skepticism to written material about Jesus. the test for anyone claimiming to be messiah is they are either liar, lunatic or they are telling the truth. Shabbetai clearly failed on these 3 test but Jesus and His followers went to the death claiming what they said and did was true. Jews and Christian both have pieces of the puzzle and can help each other in an open forum. Thank you for your teaching and learning .
Listening from Australia, YasherKoach Dr Henry! My understanding is that Shabetai Tsvi and his followers broke Halacha; Shabbetai said: “ I allow matiR various different insuriM prohibitions., “ I believe Shabbetai and his followers first breaking of Halacha was not observing the fasts of the 10th of TeveS and the 9th of Av..... this breaking of Halacha and the use of a pseudo false use of genuine sprinkling of sort of Kabbalistic items like amulets etc...... Gave all serious Kabbalah Torah learning a bad name unfortunately: Other breaks serious breaks of Halacha occurred. Those who criticised him or his followers were ridiculed by many: You had to be very brave to stand up against him and his followers.
I'm fascinated by this guy in history in general and with many scholarly claims of mental illness. I often wonder in part because I believe in population IQ differences. If some of the people who get labeled mentally ill. Weren't maybe just on the extreme of end of the bell curve? I'm not suggesting that here per-say but could you imagine? Hypothetically speaking, what would it be like to be supwry intelligent. More so than 99% of the people you came in contact with 500 years ago? I'd assume at first fine but then there would be doubt and eventually a reinforcement of the fact objectively. Which I could only imagine would cause a great sense of loss & initiation of supreme loneliness. You are like at 160+ IQ surrounded by dogmatic zealots and worse. Who are maybe pushing 70 or 80 & yet. You have none of the technological concepts. That would drive one towards innovation. You yourself would likely be dogmatically driven ....smh...damn what a certain type of hell that would be. No thanks. I AM very happy to stupid. See what i did there.
Dr. Abramson, just finished bingeing from 82 to 91 in the Jewish History Lab. Every lecture is golden - and love your jokes too. Shabbat Shalom!
Thanks very much for the kind words! I've been trying to cut back on the jokes, not everybody is as appreciative as you.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD I laugh at your jokes 😄
I believe an inversion of Gods law or if your non religious natural law was a method used by this sect from my studies there was a lot of hermetic influence on these beliefs Hermes (Hermaphrodite) Greek Hellenistic and Egyptian beliefs also tied to Enochian magic influences still evident in todays System. Please Dr. Abramson do a segment on the Book of Enoch fragments found in Dead Sea Scrolls extremely important to what is transpiring today!
@@HenryAbramsonPhD I have viewed several of your video lessons & find them outstanding, thank you! I have always had a huge interest in History & Pre-history, especially in my own Jewish history. My great grandfather brought a set of encyclopedias with him when he immigrated to America in 1906. They were published in the mid 1860’s. My Zada left them to my dad & he gave them to me. Dad told me the books & a large menorah my sister has, were the only possessions they brought with them from Russia. I read them from cover to cover when I was of Bar Mitzvah age & then again years later when I was a young man. I am 67 years old now & I remember the section on false messiahs very clearly. I have the books in boxes but I don’t know what to do with them, any suggestions?
Shalom from a Christian in Sweden. This is good knowlidge. I did read about Sabbatai and Nathan for 8 years ago.
Another great lecture! Thank you Dr. Abramson!
I’ve always been interested in history (as an enthusiastic amateur) but before discovering this channel would have described myself as agnostic toward Jewish history. Now I can’t get enough! You’re combination of erudition and enthusiasm make me look forward to each new video.
Thanks again and your students are very lucky to have you!
Wow, I'm so glad that you enjoy the classes and found personal meaning in them as well! That is so great!
Jacob Frank and the Frankists is another subject worth knowing
They're all false just like your jew smite supremacist religion. From a pro gentile and pro Arab semites
What a great lecture ! Thanks for clarifying antinomian behavior as related to Judaism and to ST ! So interesting how he requested a Yom Kippur prayer book before death, he must have realized he had made tremendous mistakes for himself and others in his life and in some way wanted to do tsuvah (repentance), unless this was a final act of antinomianism...
Dr. Abramson. Thank-you for your scholarship, I have learnt a lot. Can you please elucidate more on the modern impact of this cult, the migration and practices of families that have maintained their beliefs, not just in Turkey, but globally. Mass movements like this never vanish, but they may change. I have read of families keeping their 'faith' as a very private thing, concerned about persecution, passing down sacred family manuscripts etc. How were the cultists treated? Did this lead to immigration? Do you have any reference material relating to modern sabbateanism? Thank-you in advance.
Golden lecture Dr. Abrahamson! That's the second time you actually made an impact and detailed description of RABBI SHABBETAI TSVI. I watched the first edition today. Thank you for the light you bring the world. Good work as usual. May Hashem bless your work. Kol Tov!
Thank you! I'm glad that you enjoy the classes!
Jacob Emden, who was one of the most fighters against Sabbateanism (Frankist movement) was my tenth grandfather!
Wow!
@@HenryAbramsonPhD I would love to send a copy of my book "A Jew in Islam" to you. How could I send it? And thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I am learning a lot with you.
Dr. Abrahamson, is it a coincidence that Don Quixote de la Mancha was published in 1605 and 1615, or does life imitate art? -¡Saludos cordiales!
Interesting thought!
Please upload More more more
Have the Jewish authorities of each False Messiah instance turned that person in to the rulers of the day? & Was this guys name related to Zev?
17:12
Natalie Portman?! come on, Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia should be the established canon for that hair-do! :-)
I stand corrected.
Fun fact, Portman and Fisher both have Jewish parents.
Great talk explaining that heresy that did so much harm and confused so many , in this fallen world crazy people always gather a faithful body of followers . I had read about that movement from the writings of Rabi Marvin Antelmann a few years back . Thank you for your enlightening lectures , I’m an evangelical Christian who greatly enjoy Biblical history and you are a great expositor of it . I believe that those heretical movements have fueled anti Semitism through the centuries because the gentiles and demagogues who attempt to use them bundle up all of Judaism into some kind of heretical off the wall sect which is incorrect . Many people still believe that the “ Jews” were behind Bolshevism and the authors of it and even though there were revolutionaries that were Jewish they fail to see that many of those revolutionaries , both Jews and gentiles , ended up in front of firing squads like Yezhov , or languished away in sone labor camp or were assassinated in exile like Trotsky . Thank you sir your lectures are very important .
Henry you have Jews for Jesus ads running on all your videos. Please remove your ads or figure out a way to block them!
Why so long of a wait? I want to watch now thank you for posting and I will be back in a few days 👍 🙏
Looking forward to the premiere--if you're really interested, please note that Channel Members get advance access to all videos. This one has been up for a week or so now!
@@HenryAbramsonPhD Hello Sir I have a personal question for you. do you believe the Messiah Jewish king will arrive in this year?
I live in Charedi community in Israel an hardly anyone talks about him. If they do say anything people refer to him as a liar. But it is my opinion, Tsvi believed that he was the Messiah and Nathan promoted it. BTW if you mention Nathan of Gaza, people do not know who he is. Oh if you mention Gershom Scholem, people call him a heretic and do not take anything he wrote, says seriously.
A thought to ponder: how can you tell whether the person claiming to be the Messiah is who they claim to be? 🤔
They sacrifice themselves fully, to lead other's to save one another.
The sign several Rabbis noticed was that he was using witchcraft and Earth element to create "miracles"
He needs to accomplish a series of tasks which include fighting wars for his nation, bringing the Jews back to Israel and rebuilding the Temple. World peace and the resurrection of the dead will follow.
@@joshwander7007 Exactly, the belief is the True Messiah has to fulfill certain criteria.
@@joshwander7007 thank you. It’s funny how people think they can second-guess God….. Jesus was Awake like Buddha. He is an immortal, divine being. Like everyone of us. Kabbalah teaches things like that - and if you study Torah carefully, you will understand that. Psalm 82
Most of what I'd known about this comes from the relevant entries in the Encyclopedia Judaica, which were written by Gershom Scholem. They are a tour de force! Are there things in those Encyclopedia Judaica entries that we now know to be incorrect? I live in Beer-Sheva, and have thought about looking for historical remnants of Nathan of Gaza. Is there anything extant that a somewhat educated tourist could visit? I love crackpots and learning about colorful extremes in history.
It could have been interesting if Umberto Eco had incorporated some Shabbetai Tsvi material into Foucault's Pendulum. Too late to write to him to suggest it. I wonder if Shabbetai Tsvi shows up much in the thoughts of the erudite and deranged conspiracy theorists who focus on the Templars, the Rosicrucians, the Freemasons, et al.
@@RichardTasgal Sabbateanism - or rather Frankism - did influence a lot of the later Christian-based occultic movements and probably found its ultimate expression in 20th century charismatic occultists like Aliester Crowley and his twice-removed-sort-of-disciple L. Ron Hubbard.
He also told them he’s waiting for R’ Nechemia the greatest Kabbalist in Poland to come visit him .
R’ nechemia came ( this was already at the time he was locked in prison with privileges).
They argued for three days non stop except for small intervals of naps. R’ Nechmia argued that Shabtai Tzvi can’t be the messiah since Messiah son of Joseph [which Nechemia claimed to be!! ] has not revealed himself.
When Nechemia realised his life is in danger after calling him an imposter and a charlatan.
Called out to the Muslim guards that he’d like to convert to Islam therefore falling under their protection. He asked for the favour of donning the Muslim turban to be brought immediately to the sultan.
His request granted him audience by the sultan. He laid out for the sultan that the Jews by no fault of their own are being conned by an imposter . This imposter wants to take the crown off your head and is guilty of treason.
R’ Nechemia took off from turkey threw away the turban . He ran around the Scandinavian countries that never had a Jewish population.
To gather the Nitzotzot from the klipa there .
R’ Yakov Emden writes he saw him as an old man מוכת שחין in Amsterdam years later.
The Ta”z sent his son and son in law to check out this messiah. They made their trek from Poland.
They recounted all that befell the Jews in Poland. He said they needn’t tell him as he has the Sefer צוק העתים on his table.
He also sang a beautiful song in the order of the alef bet at the letter ז he cried bitterly saying זכור עניים ומרודים .
He also took of one vest that he was wearing and told the son in law R”Leib to put it on the ailing aging Ta”z for a segula. R’ yeshaya the son of the Ta”z protested saying but I’m his son and he answered in Yiddish שווייגט and gave him a piece of sugar for a segaula.
It’s not clear what they reported back since not much after this he was unmasked.
I heard from my Rebbe that they observed him being שוכב פרקדן , probably a euphemism for something of immoral behaviour.
They were only polite for their safety .
The main sources to go to are the ציץ נובל צבי from one of the only respected rabbis to oppose bitterly the ש״ץ . The Rabbi of Amsterdam R’ Yakov Shashport.
Also זאת תורת הקנאות from R’ Yakov Emden a fascinating account of that time and it’s aftermath.
Thanks for providing these citations!
@@HenryAbramsonPhD gezunterheid
Also at the End of the Taz's sons' visit by Sh.Zevi, they asked if he can do something about a libelous priest back in Poland.. so he immediately pulled out a cabbage from his garden.. and at that moment priest dropped dead...From this the Taz realized it was black magic (שוכב פרקדן , meaning he slept on his back like an am haaretz ignoramus.)
thaks henry on youre lecture on shabbetai tsvi i first learnt about him from a guy named david icke ,he sometimes has some conspiracy theories but he did give me some educational material about him i heard his followers called the doumah means to turn either way although they converted to islam they still practiced sabbatiean beliefs jacob frank i heard proclaimed himself as a decendant of shabbaetai interesting lecture
What does the Old Testament tell us about the True Messiah so we would know when he does come.
Little outside my area of specialization, sorry.
I'm a non Jew taking public classes to try to understand Jewish POV point of view of G-d. The Rabbi there says that a lot of really bad things have to be fulfilled according to the Bible for that to happen. So I'm not looking forward to it much less if an org or gov did a false flag messiah, what would that look like and how would we know? Would all three faiths accept him or would the world break out into war?
YEAH WE GOT PLENTY OF THOSE IN OUR DAYS
thank you for a great lecture!!!
btw do you have a lecture about the jewish calendar?
Cool
Idk why… im not a Jew or anything but I’ve been fascinated with this topic since 2012. Thank you for the interesting lecture.
I'm glad that you enjoyed the lecture! Thank you for being a public subscriber!
Add the latest scientific breakthroughs
Attaturk's mother was Donmeh
I don’t inow
oh man that's awesome ! A connection between Shabetai Tzvi and Star Wars! funny, and interesting
Did I just hear right, 1 day mourning the Messiah yet 9 days mourning a Temple... A guy claiming to be an embodiment of the Messiah could levitate and disagreed with the status quo and was ousted and pushed to convert to Islam. With all do respect how is it you believe the Messiah will return yet when someone appears to be the Messiah he is rejected. I wonder how people would treat anyone who claimed to be the Messiah or and embodiment of the Messiah today. Are you expecting the same man to return somehow? Who amongst you would not be ousted for declaring an individual as being the Messiah? Would anyone but a Jewish speaking person who looks like one of the many faces of Jesus/Jeshua portrayed centuries after his death by people who never knew the messiah nor saw his face to depict it. Is there an image or portrait of the messiah from the time period he was alive I am not aware of? What would it really take to accept the messiah might not actually remember how to speak a particular dialect, might not look the same, could perhaps even be female, may have disagreements with the teachings or translations, may be of a different mindset and could well be a number of things less impressive than people might expect. What will it take for people to accept the Messiah may never have left and be channeling himself in spirit through various people over the ages. Will anything ever be enough to show people what they may be blinded to? Anyone who proclaims they are the Messiah is quickly branded a heretic, suffering granduor and being mentally ill. I'm not saying this to question Jewish faith but the messiah can only be who you allow the messiah to be, what conforms to preconceptions and expectations. Even if he stood before you right now, would you accept him for who/what he is or reject him because he is unable to prove his identity? Do you really know him or are you a fanatical fan? Do the fans of celebrities truly know the celebrity they adore so deeply or do they only know their image and what they are shown by the media? You can know everything about a person but can you truly know someone you never met or even seen in the flesh? How can you truly know someone who is still discovering themselves or yet to discover themselves? If you were to study the psychology of someone I wonder how well you would come to know them? You may recognise traits of them or understand elements of them but would you truly know them, or just enough to believe you know enough about them to define them as something or another? For a long time the Bible was perceived as having a literal meaning yet although it is a work of literature, not everything should be taken literally. Was it really jesus people loved or hated, or was it his mind/perception of things they loved or hated? Did jesus really forgive people for all sins, or did he forgive people for condemning him because he saw that his words of wisdom fell on deaf ears. If you take philosophy for example, a single quote made by a revered scholar can be perceived differently by a diversity of people of different mind sets, and so the meaning is deep to some but of face value to others. Wisdom teachings suffer the same interpretation problems. 3 wise men came to Jesus bearing gifts. They likely stuck with him and passed on their wisdom to him, yet people perceive the bible as literal when it is, but it is also steeped in wisdom and intended to be open to interpretation in order for it to be more widely acceptable to all, united under one God whilst respecting the gods of others, of which there were and still are millions of gods, broken down into gods of everything in life, which are all parts of the same whole just as each part of life is a part of life, not the complete life. A bad day is a bad day and good day is a good day. The good and bad are parts of life, even though life may feel good or bad. The Bible was a masterpiece composed of some of the greatest minds and pieced together by more great minds. How can someone truly understand or comprehend the wisdom contained in words spoken or written if people are not wise enough themselves to truly understand what was actually said? Jesus, being enlightened, recognised this fundamental truth, and so he forgave people for their lack of understanding for he knew it was not their fault they did not understand. Such things are the reasons why the wisest amongst us prefer to say little, but find they must say alot in order for people to understand what is actually being said. Many things are mind boggling enough as they are and a realisation of today may be revealed, but overturned and even realised as an error after saying it to others. If you have experienced this you will know what I mean, so simply and humbly I say life is a lesson we are yet to learn, just as the Bible is a book people may know everything about yet little about what is actually contained in the book. Even a book in itself has symbolic and implied meanings. I ask you, can a rectangle only be a rectangle? Or is there so much more contained and/or implied? Further more, if I took 2 books and rotated them away to pivot on a corner, and overlapped them, a VW shape could be made. The v at top, the w on the bottom. A square could be formed by an overlap also and the rectangular shapes lost, yet the 2 books remain rectangles. It is the perception of them that is altered. If you compare the bible to the Torah the Bible says the answers are contained within the book whilst the Torah is said to contain the answers tor the reader as a relative book of the readers life. The Bible implies the teachings are so profound they are relative to each readers circumstances in life, which are answers that the creator/s of the Bible should have been able to find the answers within themselves, being the creators of the book that contains all the answers. The Torah is like a brother or sister to the bible. It also contains the answers. It implies the answers can be found within the Torah and within the self. What does the creation of the Torah and Bible truly imply about god/the creator? It is not my intention to tell people what to believe or perceive so all I can ask of people is to think about things and make of things what they will... 🙏❤️
I think I lost you at "levitate." I didn't mean to suggest he actually knew how to fly. Otherwise, I hope you found the video useful.
Mostly Jews in Denmark came from Russia, fleeing from progromes in several periods. My grandfather came from Hamburg though.
And I do indeed love your jokes!
What is a tourist girl 👧
Shabbatai Tzvi sounds like Simon Magus
I think it's in Psalms but the OT does plainly say the bible is a book of dark sayings and parables. Some Christians claim the coming of Christ is a spirit of G-d coming onto mankind in mass not a man in the clouds. Not Christ but that similar idea of G-d presence coming upon mankind, could that be an understanding of the messiah in Jewish belief, the outpouring of G-ds spirit upon the Earth? As a non-Jew the Noah Hyde laws freak me out not because they are bad but I see how badly humans screwed up and manipulated the laws of the land and sea. How much more could be done with the NH laws if G-d's spirit was not strong in the vast majority.
Brilliant scholarship this also shows the how well Jewish and Muslims got along back then....
Hi
I am sure they liked the free love, no wonder he became so popular.
But incest was involved also unless that is just something his detractors made up.
Nathan of Gaza's kabbalistic point of view was very innovative. It is very similar to the left path tantric approach on how to become enlightened. But one of the main differences is that Nathan focused only on the Messiah and his function in the universe.
I'm not religious but I find this interisting. By the way all the messiah are false one way or another.
What? No joke?
I love this joker. Wandering around, being weird, marrying Torah scrolls. Very normal.
None of the religious figures in history looked normal to people who don't follow them. It would be wise not to insult these figures.
I wonder if the timing in history of Shabbetai Tsvi living just when printed material was available to the masses would create resistance and skepticism to written material about Jesus. the test for anyone claimiming to be messiah is they are either liar, lunatic or they are telling the truth. Shabbetai clearly failed on these 3 test but Jesus and His followers went to the death claiming what they said and did was true. Jews and Christian both have pieces of the puzzle and can help each other in an open forum. Thank you for your teaching and learning .
Glad you found the videos useful
Jesus and Sabbatai: Twin False Messiahs
Too simplistic. Study more.
@@kirkhemmens1626 true, there have been other claimants but those two are the standout heretics
Listening from Australia, YasherKoach Dr Henry!
My understanding is that Shabetai Tsvi and his followers broke Halacha; Shabbetai said: “ I allow matiR various different insuriM prohibitions., “
I believe Shabbetai and his followers first breaking of Halacha was not observing the fasts of the 10th of TeveS and the 9th of Av.....
this breaking of Halacha and the use of a pseudo false use of genuine sprinkling of sort of Kabbalistic items like amulets etc......
Gave all serious Kabbalah Torah learning a bad name unfortunately:
Other breaks serious breaks of Halacha occurred.
Those who criticised him or his followers were ridiculed by many:
You had to be very brave to stand up against him and his followers.
I'm fascinated by this guy in history in general and with many scholarly claims of mental illness. I often wonder in part because I believe in population IQ differences. If some of the people who get labeled mentally ill. Weren't maybe just on the extreme of end of the bell curve? I'm not suggesting that here per-say but could you imagine? Hypothetically speaking, what would it be like to be supwry intelligent. More so than 99% of the people you came in contact with 500 years ago? I'd assume at first fine but then there would be doubt and eventually a reinforcement of the fact objectively. Which I could only imagine would cause a great sense of loss & initiation of supreme loneliness. You are like at 160+ IQ surrounded by dogmatic zealots and worse. Who are maybe pushing 70 or 80 & yet. You have none of the technological concepts. That would drive one towards innovation. You yourself would likely be dogmatically driven ....smh...damn what a certain type of hell that would be. No thanks. I AM very happy to stupid. See what i did there.
ALL OF THEM ARE FAKES ("gods"/messiahs, etc)
just like you messianic crypto Christian
Who you callin' messianic crypto Christian?
@@HenryAbramsonPhD
aren't you all
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