I know this is an old video so I am not sure if anything has changed but I really love Dracula and knowing the critiques I was prepared for the worst and was super suprised. I really saw Mina as an empowered character and I adored her. Even later in the book the men try to hide their plan from Mina and keep her sensibilities out of it and it puts her in danger .So they have to be like we were really dumb and Mina is shown to be more adept at putting pieces together and making a plan. I really got a sense of her being the best and most respected character in the book and the idea that the men would think elsewise is made fun of. Also I love that the central relationship is between Lucy and Mina and their friendship is so evident. For me Dracula felt much more like a predator than promscuity, we do have to some explanation of Lucy's end then but it is very clear to me that Dracula is unconsentually feeding on her. That she does not want this. And before he showed up Lucy was already free in stating her desires, her first occurence is saying she would marry all three men as it would be desireable. She is confident in her sexuality and Mina in her intelligence and they have no quarrel or toxicity between them. I have ranted long enough but to say it is also one of the funniest books I have ever read. And of course you can still hate it, I get why a lot of people don't like it I just have a much more feminist view on it.
Ha, oh dear! I wouldn't necessarily recommend it though - there are certainly better Wilkie Collins novels out there! The ending was just one of those 'woah, what?' moments.
That's literally what I did after watching this video 🤣😂 I couldn't help myself. And I LOVED THE BOOK. absolutely loved it. But... yes... Katie is absolutely right. The ending is *horrifying* lol. It was still worth the emotions I felt throughout the novel, I got quite emotional at several moments.
When I was younger, I didn't care for Dracula but that was because I'm not a big fan of vampires. A few years ago I re-read it, and was so struck by several things that I ended up doing a presentation on the novel. It is the epitome of the Victorian period's worst nightmares, and in that context is absolutely fascinating. Just a few of the phobias on display include not just the uneasiness about women's sexuality, which you've already mentioned (check out Stoker's biography. There are biographers who argue that he was in deep denial about his own sexuality. He was friends with Oscar Wilde and corresponded with Walt Whitman. The writing of Dracula neatly coincides with Wilde's trial and imprisonment.), also fear of foreigners (especially from the east), fear of disease, and a combination of some of the above, fear of prostitution and venereal disease, just to name a few. I can fully recommend the Penguin edition for its incredible essay with a fantastic bibliography at the end that I found essential for my presentation.
That's the thing - even though I don't like Dracula, I do feel like it covers a lot of things that are interesting from a historical perspective. I ought to reread it some time!
"Her countenance was truly angelic; for she knew all the train tables." Hahahaha I have tried to read George Eliot and I can never get through it. I have Mill on the Floss on my night table and use it to fall asleep. Whenever I hear quotes from her works, I think: "George Eliot said that? I like that." But . . . perhaps only in snippets. Once again, you have helped me narrow down my LIST!
That’s an interesting take on Dracula. I read it first as a young teen, Well-read for my age but naive and not especially educated. This would have been about 1963. I found it so erotic that I was pretty shocked by it. I’ve read it a couple of more times as an adult and see it through completely different eyes, of course. I got the...trouble the author had with female sexuality, but I take it as part of his era and don’t take it personally. I liked Treasure Island quite a lot, but honestly I think my opinion of the book has been heavily influenced by the movie. Silver is so compellingly portrayed by Robert Newton that his remembered performance makes the book come alive. Jekyll and Hyde is a small masterpiece all on its own. Thanks for this one, Katie; you gives us a lot to think about.
Thanks! I am curious to know how my interpretation (and issues with) Dracula will change if I reread it. I must try and track down a film of Treasure Island - I think I'd probably enjoy it more than the book!
I admire that you read 5 George Eliot books, even though you don't like her style. I love Middlemarch, and can't remember much about Silas Marner. But I enjoy her writing style in Middlemarch. Great video, thank you.
I feel so vindicated that someone else does not vibe with "Mill on the Floss." I made the mistake of choosing it for my AP final paper because I liked "Silas Marner" and it was such a slog to get through and then it ended the way it did.
I really enjoyed "Silas Marner" when I was doing my "O" level 54 years ago. Perhaps it seemed good as I was stuck with poetry by Walter de la Mare, which drove me to drink cider in the park after school.
The Two Destinies is pretty bonkers too - I'm sorry for sparking everybody's curiosity, but there are certainly better Wilkie Collins out there to spend your time on!
I read Treasure Island and Kidnapped and adored both of them. Of course, I was maybe nine or ten years old when I read them. I don't know how I would like them now. I think it's one of those things where I don't want to reread them. I'm happy with my warm memories. These may be books that work better on a younger mind.
Maybe! I was surprised on reading Treasure Island by the dullness of the pacing and plot, because I'd so often heard it discussed as a children's book.
I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on Dracula after a second read. I think it's a great horror novel (I'm a horror fan) and a good horror novel examines the fears of its time or universal fears, so it is often a product of its time in a more obvious way, if that makes sense. I've never understood how someone can be personally offended by things in a novel written 100+ years ago that they don't agree with and it's not always prudent to force modern sensibilities onto a product of a different era. But most 18 year-olds would! That is a good reason to revisit such books later in life.
Well that's the thing - in general I don't kind classics offensive, even if I might find certain things distasteful, but Dracula seems to be a big exception there. I probably should reread it, although I slightly dread the prospect. Maybe an audiobook would be the way to do it!
I'll never understand people's attraction, interest, even fascination with vampires. Not only are they entirely off-putting, I find them very boring to boot!
Katie, how can one be such an inspiration as you are?! You make people read even those books which you do not like. I did rush to read The Two Destinies after watching this video. I remember reading The Woman in White when I was much, much younger, and it left me indifferent, I was not going to read anything else by Wilkie Collins. What can I say about The Two Destinies? Yes, the ending… That was very strange and very unbelievable, even more unbelievable than all this stuff about seeing each other in dreams, leaving messages, etc. But on the whole, it was a surprisingly engaging read. I liked it a lot, and I can only thank you for a couple of pleasant hours spent with this book : ))
Well, the only explanation I have is that people do sometimes make stupid decisions which are hard to understand. What surprised me even more about this whole situation is that the American couple, after learning the whole story, went to see them, as is saying "hey, they are such nice people, let's go see them and be friends forever". I did not have an impression that they rushed there to protect the poor wife in case anything might happen. : ((
Feminists must have a different version of Dracula. Mina is depicted as strong and intelligent, and kind and chaste (which is not a bad thing for a woman to be actually).
Dickens, who you like, and my parents loved, is almost as impenetrable as Carlyle for me. The soggy sentimentality and dire heroes and heroines. Admittedly, this is all from 'Oliver Twist'. I loved the 19th century Russian writers -- translation somehow makes them more modernly relevant. I think I speak for most English speakers. Chekhov seemed to be describing exactly my backwater provincial environment in the 90s before the arrival of the internet.
Oliver Twist is by far my least favourite Dickens novel - I'd recommend trying another, maybe Great Expectations or David Copperfield are good and more accessible starting points!
@@katiejlumsden You can see from my next comment we might be fundamentally adverse. But from reading James Pope Hennessy's amusing 1970s Trollope biography and re-watching the 1980s 'Barchester Chronicles' lately I might give the 3rd Barsetshire book a go, having never read any of him before. Don't know if you've done 'The Pallisers' TV series but it comes across as a dragging daytime soap opera.
I’m kind of enjoying Adam Bede but I find it isn’t one that I think about picking up, but when I do I enjoy it. I do want to pick up Dracula for Halloween, but I have my doubts on whether I’ll like it.
I may not read many of these books but I’d love to hear you talk about them. Delightful and lighthearted way and some fab expressions! You are so young with incredible energy and speed to devour classics and other novels.
You got all the way through 'Jude The Obscure' without giving your wrists a good seeing to? 'Silas Marner' remains ever in my mind, the totally true depiction of evangelical christians for all time, Silas's devotion to money after being disillusioned by them, then his re-birth after having all his money stolen and left with a little child. A template for me.
Your rapid speech almost makes me dizzy, but you're sensible, so I keep returning (from time to time). You asked about Stevenson readers. I am a big fan. I first read TI as a teenager, but I am male, loved sea literature even then, and was fascinated by pirates. TI is a boy's adventure story; I know few women that honestly admire it, but I could be wrong. As you say, what RLS excelled at was pushing a plot along, quick characterizations, and ability to capture an atmosphere. I still especially love and admire the first few chapters at the Benbow where the story is set up; the details and the language were believable to a 50's kid from California. You might like Kidnapped (it is better literature than TI) and you receive a good cross section of what Scottish life might have been like in the 18th century. I can also recommend Travels with a Donkey and his travel writing about the American west. I think he was a limited, but true talent. I'd mention the Black Arrow, but you'd likely find it much like TI. I agree with you on G. Elliot. She is a real struggle for me. I've only been able to finish 1 and 1/2 of her works. And I love Hardy, but do not own (nor have read the) one you mention; I'll remember to avoid it. Far From...., Return of the Native, Tess, and the Mayor or Casterbridge are among the finest novels in the language. I don't think he receives (today) the attention he deserves. Thanks for all the well thought out reviews and posts.
I’m currently reading Treasure Island and I’m currently not really liking it all that much either. One thing that really bothers me about Robert Louis Stevenson’s writing is that he just introduces characters without warning, like they’ve always been there. I don’t like that because I always end up having to back track to make sure that I didn’t miss anything.
I liked Kidnapped, but I liked the film a lot better. With George Eliot's longer books, I tend to find the first chapter of each section incomprehensible, but then it starts to make sense after that.
Oh my lord, I thought George Eliot's prose was dry as well. (However, I cannot possibly comment because I was 16 and gave up with Middlemarch at the 100 page mark.) I do intend to read Dracula this month - I saw the Hammer horror film a few years ago, and found it campy and melodramatic enough to appeal to me. I only got to page 40 when I last tried to read the book, but will definitely consider what you have mentioned in this video as I go into it. I also feel like I ought to read more Thomas Hardy, but I can never forgive him for A Pair of Blue Eyes, or Tess. (The latter simply because of the ending. The former because I thought it dreadful.)
I liked The Mill in the Floss generally, but I agree completely about the end. It was just so abrupt and, I thought, inappropriate. I find Dracula interesting for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I can't say I like it, but I find it fascinating. If Collins didn't have such long books, I don't want to read The Two Destinies, but I am SO curious now.
The ending was far too abrupt for me! I feel like the ending dropped it from a 2/3 star to a 1 star for me. And the Two Destinies certainly ought to be lower down your Collins list, even if you are curious! And I do have a feeling I would find Dracula more fascinating than frustrating if I were to reread it now.
Definitely read Dracula again! He definitely does not portray the women's sexuality in a positive way, but fears of sexuality was a huge theme of gothic literature in general. Maybe reading some gothic lit criticism would help it not be so annoying haha. It's got some great horror in it, IMO. (rushing in library so sorry if not making sense)
I also don't like the Mill on the Floss. I know that because it's the only one of her books I've only read once, back when I was 20 or 21. But you might like My Life in Middlemarch by Rebecca Mead, which I read very recently. Of course, I love George Eliot, but it gives good analysis and biography with less memoir than I had expected, and most of that is about Mead's travels researching the book. I've never wanted to read Stevenson or Dracula, and haven't read the other two, though I've read several Wilkie Collins books besides The Moonstone and The Woman in White, and don't like any of them as well as those two. The Hardy sounds perverted.
Yeah, the Hardy was quite weird. Sometime I might read My Life in Middlemarch - I enjoyed my reread of Middlemarch and while I gained a lot of respect for the novel, I still feel like there's something I'm just not quite getting about Eliot? I wish I had studied her at university.
One of the things Mead discusses is that when Marian Evans lost her religion she worked to find a morality separate from religion, and she worked that out in her fiction. That may help you figure it out. Another thing that comes to mind is that while Dickens was a heart an entertainer, George Eliot was at heart an intellectual, and this difference showed in their writing styles. She's definitely worth figuring out.
I agree with you on Mill on the Floss but love Silas Marner for its optimism and sentimentality. I have read loads of Stevenson and still like Treasure Island, but Kidnapped is better. I think the novels I have come to like least are those by George Gissing for the sheer weight of depression that I am left with at the end
I just finished Reading Treasure Island to my kids and they were bored. I was bored. And it’s not that there isn’t a lot going on or that it’s too sanitary, plenty of death in the book. But I felt the book (at least the last half of the book anyway)should have been called the Long John Silver book and his many moods. I loved reading about the characters who are referred to often in modern retellings and seeing how they were actually portrayed, but it wasn’t my cup of tea. I just began Dracula (not a read aloud - too scary for some kids), but I think I will read them Little Women next. After the high seas adventure, a little bit of domestic adventures will feel enjoyable.
Me clicking on this video fully knowing my girl George Eliot is about to get roasted: 😒 Only kidding! I'm glad we at least share a mutual dislike for Treasure Island, the world's most BORING novel 😂
I gave Mill on the Floss 3 stars. The first half of the book was slow, indeed. Since you have tipped me off to some of the lesser know Victorian authors such as George Gissing, I find I am enjoying them quite a lot more than George Eliot.
just finished it! (the mill on the floss) I agree with everything you’re saying. If she wanted to show us their connection she had like first super boring half of the novel to develop it. I did not feel their bond at all. ending was like she just became tired writing and decided to abruptly end everything. If she will not marry pone of the guys then she should just die. 😒
Well I was really hoping that one of my Victober picks didn't show up on this list because I think our tastes are very similar, but alas, I see Dracula is on the list. But from what you described, those things aren't really my pet peeves, so I'm hoping I have a better experience with it.
I read The Two Destinies, would love to discuss the ending and find what you felt was so strange. I myself felt is was a bit over the top but was curious as to what stuck out for you. I do however love the parts when George goes to the Shetland Islands and meeting Miss Duncross when he was sick in bed. It was really interesting and atmospheric especially since he can't see her face anytime she visits him. I also like when she visits him as he is sleeping and how he describes how he can hear her. I am lucky in that I have the complete works of Wilkie Collins in 30 volumes that was published sometime around 1903, the are still in great shape.
The ending is just so strange to me! Just putting this a little further down for the sake of spoilers. I find the fact that he tries to kill her and then she happily marries him when she realises who he is just absolutely unbelievable and frustrating. I was really enjoying it up until the end though! I have so enjoyed everything else I've read by him too.
I haven't read the Two Destinies, but now I'm intrigued. I know I loved The Moonstone, so much so that it's on of the few books from my Victorian Lit classes that o genuinely wanted to keep. I hated The Mill on the Floss and I'm so glad there's someone else like me. Lol. The whole book was just weird and just when I felt like I was warming up to it, that ENDING happened. It's really made me wary of reading more George Eliot.
I'm glad to hear you hated The Mill on the Floss too - what?! I should say that I think Middlemarch and Daniel Deronda are much better; though they're not great favourites of mine, they are strong and interesting novels. There are a lot of better Wilkie Collins out there than the Two Destinies!
I think everyone should read a novel that is disagreeable to some,but one way to find out is to read and find out. i am not a fan of dickens,or bronte,but i have a few i bought to see if i like them,it often takes time for me to get into the classic dickens,bronte,also i got george eliot and gaskill. i have to get out of the comfort zone of jane austen and start to read more classic that i wouldn't read before. but I thank you for guiding me to try gaskill and dickens.so i am going to try these classic. :)
Your mention of _Treasure Island_ and Stevenson brought back a quote about the American baseball player of the 1910's, Hal Chase, who was expelled from the game for betting against his own teams. Here is the quote: _"Could he have really existed, or was he perhaps invented by Robert Louis Stevenson, along with the Master of Ballantrae, Long John Silver, and the good Dr. Jekyll? Hal Chase is remembered as a shining, leering, pock-marked faced, pasted on a pitch-dark soul. There is some evidence that he appeared in the flesh, but I lean more toward the invention theory. What mother, if he was real, what Rosemary could have given birth to such a creature? ... His parentage is not much discussed in the literature, but he should have been, I would say, the bastard son of a bishop, by way of a woman down on her luck."_ Bill James, _The Historical Baseball Abstract._
I think you might like Stevenson's short story The Body Snatcher. I recently read a 72 page book of his (is that a novelette or short story?) called The Story of a Lie that wasn't bad, though the ending tied things up too quickly. It was as if he were writing at a leisurely pace and then saw that the deadline was approaching or he was running out of paper and rushed the end into like 2 pages. I also just finished a short travel memoir of his called The Amateur Emigrant about a trip he took to the US in the lat 1800s. I found that one very interesting. I also did not like Treasure Island...and am almost afraid to pick up Kidnapped for the reason you mentioned. Jekyll and Hyde is one of my all time favorites. I am trying more of his work and like his writing, but he made pirates boring and I don't know how that is even possible...but it is. Kidnapped I may never get to for fear of disappointment.
Ah yes, I have read the Body Snatcher - enjoyed that one, and had entirely forgotten I'd read it. The Story of a Lie sounds interesting, if a bit rushed. The Amateur Emigrant sounds very interesting. Jekyll and Hyde is amazing, but Treasure Island has really put me off trying Kidnapped!
Your love of Wuthering Heights really has me questioning if our tastes align, but you're one of the few I've seen that share my dislike of Secret History (thank god I DNFd it - I was wondering if somehow it miraculously improved, given all the high praise), and Treasure Island was shockingly bad, given its classic status. I'm looking forward to reading your book.
@@katiejlumsden OMG, just finished Glass Bead Game. It surpassed Wuthering Heights for most overrated classic - and I adore Steppenwolf. I also liked Little Friend by Donna Tartt. I'm not recommending it. I'm just pointing out I've enjoyed DT's writing and still thought SH was bad.
@bookishprincessemma once said that wilkie collins was better than charles dickens in her opinion. I've read many dickens novels and i absolutely adore his writing, his wit, and characters but I've never read or even heard of collins til she said that bold statement so I feel challenged now to read wilkie collins and see if it's true.
I've seen Baz Pierce review Wilkie Collins because apparently she wrote the first detective novels? I'm sure you can find people talking about those books here on Booktube. If you haven't heard of Baz Pierce, he's a jaded, Irish character who reviews primarily classics. 😊(Barry, the person behind the character, is a lot less cynical, who you only get to meet in the livestreams.)
Ha I think I'd probably go against Emma and say that for me, Wilkie Collins feels like a less good Dickens! However, I do enjoy his work, and have really liked 3 out of 4 of what I've read by him, The Two Destinies being the only exception, so I would recommend his work :)
Funny about Dracula and Frankenstein. I had a volume with both stories included, and I read Dracula as a 15 or so year old, and I like it very much. I didn't read Frankenstein until I was in my 40's. I couldn't get into Frankenstein. I'm thinking if I tried to reread Dracula I wouldn't like it as much now. It was adventurous then, now i think it would seem trite. Whereas if i gave Frankenstein a harder try I might be able to get into it and like it, I don't know.
I stumbled across this video because I'm conducting research to do a feminist rewrite of Dracula for young adults and so I'm delighted to see you didn't like it for the exact reasons I didn't! To be honest, I have a love hate relationship with it. I love many things about it, but the pacing and the sexism are just unbearable! I read it every couple of years and roll my eyes a great deal. Anyway, thank you so much for making so many videos on Victorians and their literature. They are very enjoyable!
Hahahaha... this is your most unintentionally funny video of late Katie. If you re-read Dracula, I recommend seeking out the Norton Critical Editions edition; it has a very humorous, sardonic, tone to the professional annotations which always makes me laugh: "Once again, Doctor Van Helssing..."
I'll definitely look out for that one! (Although I think I might have somewhere my old school edition with all my pencilled notes, which might be rather entertaining too...)
The mill on the floss is the first I read by Eliot. To me she's a much better writer than Dickens..much more real, much less stereotypical. I like some Dickens' novels but just the contrast makes me appreciate Eliot very much. Plan to read more of her.
I am going to start reading Dracula soon and I am quite excited how I find it, especially after hearing you talk about how you didn't like it. I think my least favourite Victorian novel is The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins. Also felt little bit meh about Middlemarch and Tess of D'Urbervilles.
I've only read one of these, Dracula twenty years ago so it kind of stands with those other classics I read when young that, like you Katie, I think I might read differently now. I reread Hard Times recently only six years or so after the first time and enjoyed it so much more. I'm beginning to think all books, especially classics, need to be reread twice! As for the other books you mentioned, only Mill on the Floss intrigues me enough to read, there are plenty of other books by each of these authors to keep me going.
Katie- would you consider dedicating one to breaking down books that have evolved in your own mind over time? I find this psychologically fascinating. I'm rereading a lot- and am finding my own perspectives quite absorbing- lol!!! I'm documenting my reactions over time. One favourite has gone from good to bad and back again in my mind every five years. Our own maturity and increasing experience so heavily dictates our reactions.... i'd love a whole series on this!!! (Not asking much 😆)
I tried to read Daniel Deronda by George Eliot for Victober, and just couldn't do it - I tried to read Chapter 6 twice, and failed! I don't know why I tried this book, since I didn't like Silas Marner and The Mill on the Floss. I really wanted to give her one more chance, but she'll never work for me. In September I re-read Bleak House by Charles Dickens and I just loved it. And I adore the Brontes and Anthony Trollope (Trollope is my favorite forever), so I don't believe I don't like George Eliot because I'm too stupid to read her novels. I just decided to read a biography of Marcus Porcius Cato (Cato the Younger) and I just love it.
I have only read Treasure Island in a bowdlerised children's version so I have never bothered with the full novel - but I can imagine that it is badly paced.
I'm guessing u won't like all of Gissing, won't like Thackeray novels, nor all of Trollope. I'm also guessing that Vic fantasy authors won't be beloved by u either. I'm hung jury on whether u'll like the so-called silly novels that Eliot wrote a famous essay about.
Who are the silly novelists Eliot wrote about in that essay? I imagine I may have read one or two already. I doubt I'll like all of Thackeray, or ever read them all, but I expect to like the majority of Gissing. I expect I will love all of Trollope to be honest - I love his writing style so much that I just forgive his books any flaws!
I'm not going to speak for polymath highbrow author Eliot. Her short essay bashing these women authors' works is available for free online. I forget their names. They should've written a rebuttal vs George.
She doesn't name the novelists, but she discusses several of the novels in great detail. I read the essay for the first time a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I bought a complete GE for Kindle some time ago (for ridiculously little money) when one of my novels fell apart, but have just begun on the shorter things.
I share your appraisal of both Dr. Jekyll and Treasure Island. Some Stevenson’s short stories I like are The Bottle Imp and those in New Arabian Nights.
We were set The Mill on the Floss at uni and I couldn't get through it. I do wanna try rereading it one day but to be honest I don't know if I'll ever manage to convince myself haha. I cannot stand Dracula! I hate the epistolary format, the treatment of women and just everything else too. Such an interesting video :)
Thank you thank you and thank you! I really didn't like The Mill on the Floss. Waste of my time I say. You explain so well why. And interesting what you said about Dracula. Also read it many years ago and didn't think about that interpretation.
While not a massive fan of, 'The Well-Beloved' (although reminiscent of Yeats' love for Maude Gonne and then her daughter) I think I would have to choose, 'Jude the Obscure' as my least favourite Hardy novel: I don't think that I will ever read it again. I sympathise with the reviewer who was prompted to wonder just what it was that Fate had done to Hardy that he should rise up out of the countryside and shake his fist at it. I can see it is admirable but...!
Jude the Obscure is my favourite Thomas Hardy, but I'm well away it's a marmite book. I always try and dissuade people from picking it up as their first Hardy.
interesting angle ! Dracula was hugely disappointing to me. It started great, but devolved into a snoozefest. I love Eliot ! just read Mill on the Floss, loved it. Also loved Middlemarch and Dan Deronda. Adam Bede is next !
Really?! I'd consider Dracula way more sexist than David Copperfield, though to be sure David Copperfield's not the best of Dickens's books in terms of gender. And we'll see about Dracula. I was hoping to ease myself back into Bram Stoker by picking up a lesser well known novel by him, but I was reading a few blurbs and none of them sparked my interest - have you read anything else by him?
Mina, unlike Agnes Wickfield, is not presented simply as a moral compass for the men (as David is for the reader); at least Stoker pays a homage to the 'New Woman' movement of his time. Alas, I haven't had the chance to read anything else by him but I'd love to since Gothic fiction is pretty much my thing these days. I'd be looking forward to your reread of Dracula in the future if you'd give it another chance. Whether you'd still hate it or not, I'll be eager to see! *My guess 'sexist' is not really the right word to describe 19th c. lit. Maybe chauvinistic?
The Well Beloved, "creepy"...no kidding. Downright disturbing. I too have a long love of Thomas Hardy's novels...but, recently, after my teenage son read Tess, and we spent hours discussing it, I have had to re-access my appreciation for Thomas Hardy. My son hates Hardy's novels because of how depressing they are, which is why I loved them...but, where as I believed they were "real" before (life is hard and disappointing, get over it), now I see Hardy as having a very sad view of humanity. Good Lord, Hardy must hate people. Thoughts? Does Hardy ever find anything redeeming about humanity?
I have no idea! Sometimes it doesn't feel like it . . . But then, one of the things I love about him is the moments of happiness snatched from the midst of despair.
@@katiejlumsden that is a good way to put it: "moments of happiness snatched from despair". Very true. That is one of the reasons I love the story of Jude.
I began reading The mill on the floss but couldn't finish it: I find it boring. I love victorian novels, but probably I don't like George Eliot, just like you.
Demonstrably creepy the best statement describing a book🤣 I feel like I will definitely give all of these a wide birth except for Dracula as I hear it has Lesbian subtext going on 😄
Very funny, I liked Dracula when I was very young...but I probably couldn't stomach it at this point. Gender roles are what they are and we must remember what time this was written....wonder woman was the oddity at the time. Thomas Hardy, Jude the Obscure was horrendous, I hated it. Did you read that one?
Why on earth would you expect a Victorian novel to express 20th and 21st century feminist values? One of my biggest peeves is watching TV adaptations of 19th century classic literature and hearing 21st century "strong woman" dialogue come out of the mouths of the female characters that 99% of the time isn't in the books. Why do people forget that women of the 19th century and prior were very much women of their time, and that's NOT a bad thing? Showing how the vast majority of women really behaved and thought in those eras isn't suddenly going to send all women in the 21st century back into the kitchen. It's embarrassingly anachronistic to see classic female characters on screen suddenly adopting "strong independent woman" attitudes and dialogue. We shouldn't expect it in film because it wasn't intended in the original literature in most cases. Art imitates life, and life in the 19th century and earlier wasn't full of "strong" feminist women because feminism didn't exist. One of the most egregious examples in an otherwise excellent adaptation is the 2007 BBC Sense & Sensibility. The actress playing Margaret Dashwood, who is about nine-years-old says, "I wish I was a man. Men go about the world accomplishing things, while women just sit at home and wait for things to happen." Ugh. I'm going to bet no 4th grade girl in 1814 ever had such a realization, and I'm quite sure it's not in the book. That was screenwriter, Andrew Davies', politics coming through, and I find it offensive that he would put his words and his politics into the mouth of long-dead Jane Austen simply because her work is in the public domain. I wouldn't consider any of the female characters I've read in either Austen or Dickens "feminist" by nature. Lizzie Bennett is strong and determined, but she's still going to get married, have children, and manage the house while never having a formal education or career in the sense that we think of them, and that wasn't a bad thing in 1812. It isn't a bad thing now.
I would not expect a Victorian novel to express 21st century feminist values - but there are many Victorian novels which are very proto-feminist. It's interesting that you pick out that line from the Sense and Sensibility film, as while I don't think that's something you'd be likely to find in a Jane Austen book, that sentiment is expressed in many later 19th century novels, including Shirley by Charlotte Bronte, The Half Sisters by Geraldine Jewsbury, Hester by Margaret Oliphant and many more. I also highly recommend The Odd Women by George Gissing, if you don't think 19th century literature can be proto-feminist; and I also would very strongly argue that Dombey and Son by Charles Dickens has some wonderful proto-feminist passages. It's not exactly what we'd recognise as feminism today, but it's on its way.
@@katiejlumsden I love your channel, and I think you're so great, but I have to disagree. When we leave feminism and begin discussing "proto-feminism", then it becomes a matter of opinion because there is no generally accepted definition of what constitutes it. Is a regency or Victorian female character who just happens to have a certain degree of independence a "proto-feminist" or is she just...independent, a personality trait naturally inherent in hundreds of millions of people, many females of whom aren't feminists? I feel that many people who call 19th century female characters feminists are projecting their 21st century ideals onto them. In essence, they're seeing what they want to see or in this case, reading what they want to read to reinforce their own current beliefs. I didn't see anything I'd remotely call feminist in nature in Dombey & Son. I've heard others call Jane Eyre a feminist novel. How so? She's a governess who ends up marrying a wealthy man and taking care of him. Some might say her famous words to Rochester about being "small, obscure, and plain" is a feminist confrontation, but I just call it sharing her feelings. To me, that's normal, not feminist. By the way, I love that you love Our Mutual Friend, as do I. In my book, it's second only to Bleak House. I'd love to see you do single video character studies, as I have a problem with Eugene Wrayburn and his lack of character development, which makes him totally unlikeable and impossible to root for. I just don't understand why he's still basically a cad at the end and why Lizzie's love and nearly dying didn't change him in any fundamental way.
I know this is an old video so I am not sure if anything has changed but I really love Dracula and knowing the critiques I was prepared for the worst and was super suprised. I really saw Mina as an empowered character and I adored her. Even later in the book the men try to hide their plan from Mina and keep her sensibilities out of it and it puts her in danger .So they have to be like we were really dumb and Mina is shown to be more adept at putting pieces together and making a plan. I really got a sense of her being the best and most respected character in the book and the idea that the men would think elsewise is made fun of. Also I love that the central relationship is between Lucy and Mina and their friendship is so evident. For me Dracula felt much more like a predator than promscuity, we do have to some explanation of Lucy's end then but it is very clear to me that Dracula is unconsentually feeding on her. That she does not want this. And before he showed up Lucy was already free in stating her desires, her first occurence is saying she would marry all three men as it would be desireable. She is confident in her sexuality and Mina in her intelligence and they have no quarrel or toxicity between them.
I have ranted long enough but to say it is also one of the funniest books I have ever read. And of course you can still hate it, I get why a lot of people don't like it I just have a much more feminist view on it.
LOL I want to read The Two Destinies just to find out what the ending is.
Same lmao
Ditto! 😂
Ha, oh dear! I wouldn't necessarily recommend it though - there are certainly better Wilkie Collins novels out there! The ending was just one of those 'woah, what?' moments.
Ditto for me too!
That's literally what I did after watching this video 🤣😂 I couldn't help myself.
And I LOVED THE BOOK. absolutely loved it.
But... yes... Katie is absolutely right.
The ending is *horrifying* lol.
It was still worth the emotions I felt throughout the novel, I got quite emotional at several moments.
When I was younger, I didn't care for Dracula but that was because I'm not a big fan of vampires. A few years ago I re-read it, and was so struck by several things that I ended up doing a presentation on the novel. It is the epitome of the Victorian period's worst nightmares, and in that context is absolutely fascinating. Just a few of the phobias on display include not just the uneasiness about women's sexuality, which you've already mentioned (check out Stoker's biography. There are biographers who argue that he was in deep denial about his own sexuality. He was friends with Oscar Wilde and corresponded with Walt Whitman. The writing of Dracula neatly coincides with Wilde's trial and imprisonment.), also fear of foreigners (especially from the east), fear of disease, and a combination of some of the above, fear of prostitution and venereal disease, just to name a few. I can fully recommend the Penguin edition for its incredible essay with a fantastic bibliography at the end that I found essential for my presentation.
That's the thing - even though I don't like Dracula, I do feel like it covers a lot of things that are interesting from a historical perspective. I ought to reread it some time!
"Her countenance was truly angelic; for she knew all the train tables." Hahahaha
I have tried to read George Eliot and I can never get through it. I have Mill on the Floss on my night table and use it to fall asleep. Whenever I hear quotes from her works, I think: "George Eliot said that? I like that." But . . . perhaps only in snippets. Once again, you have helped me narrow down my LIST!
That’s an interesting take on Dracula. I read it first as a young teen, Well-read for my age but naive and not especially educated. This would have been about 1963. I found it so erotic that I was pretty shocked by it. I’ve read it a couple of more times as an adult and see it through completely different eyes, of course. I got the...trouble the author had with female sexuality, but I take it as part of his era and don’t take it personally.
I liked Treasure Island quite a lot, but honestly I think my opinion of the book has been heavily influenced by the movie. Silver is so compellingly portrayed by Robert Newton that his remembered performance makes the book come alive. Jekyll and Hyde is a small masterpiece all on its own.
Thanks for this one, Katie; you gives us a lot to think about.
Thanks! I am curious to know how my interpretation (and issues with) Dracula will change if I reread it. I must try and track down a film of Treasure Island - I think I'd probably enjoy it more than the book!
I admire that you read 5 George Eliot books, even though you don't like her style. I love Middlemarch, and can't remember much about Silas Marner. But I enjoy her writing style in Middlemarch. Great video, thank you.
I guess I just kept trying! I do quite like Daniel Deronda, but otherwise she's not so much for me.
I feel so vindicated that someone else does not vibe with "Mill on the Floss."
I made the mistake of choosing it for my AP final paper because I liked "Silas Marner" and it was such a slog to get through and then it ended the way it did.
Right?! I just can't stand it.
I really enjoyed "Silas Marner" when I was doing my "O" level 54 years ago. Perhaps it seemed good as I was stuck with poetry by Walter de la Mare, which drove me to drink cider in the park after school.
I desperately need to find out the ending of Two Destinies now. 😂😂 Also, The Well Beloved sounds bonkers.
The Two Destinies is pretty bonkers too - I'm sorry for sparking everybody's curiosity, but there are certainly better Wilkie Collins out there to spend your time on!
I read Treasure Island and Kidnapped and adored both of them. Of course, I was maybe nine or ten years old when I read them. I don't know how I would like them now. I think it's one of those things where I don't want to reread them. I'm happy with my warm memories. These may be books that work better on a younger mind.
Maybe! I was surprised on reading Treasure Island by the dullness of the pacing and plot, because I'd so often heard it discussed as a children's book.
I don't know- I can't get my boy to read them even though he's big on pirates! I started thinking I'd try again when he's older.....
I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on Dracula after a second read. I think it's a great horror novel (I'm a horror fan) and a good horror novel examines the fears of its time or universal fears, so it is often a product of its time in a more obvious way, if that makes sense. I've never understood how someone can be personally offended by things in a novel written 100+ years ago that they don't agree with and it's not always prudent to force modern sensibilities onto a product of a different era. But most 18 year-olds would! That is a good reason to revisit such books later in life.
Well that's the thing - in general I don't kind classics offensive, even if I might find certain things distasteful, but Dracula seems to be a big exception there. I probably should reread it, although I slightly dread the prospect. Maybe an audiobook would be the way to do it!
I'll never understand people's attraction, interest, even fascination with vampires. Not only are they entirely off-putting, I find them very boring to boot!
Katie, how can one be such an inspiration as you are?! You make people read even those books which you do not like. I did rush to read The Two Destinies after watching this video. I remember reading The Woman in White when I was much, much younger, and it left me indifferent, I was not going to read anything else by Wilkie Collins. What can I say about The Two Destinies? Yes, the ending… That was very strange and very unbelievable, even more unbelievable than all this stuff about seeing each other in dreams, leaving messages, etc. But on the whole, it was a surprisingly engaging read. I liked it a lot, and I can only thank you for a couple of pleasant hours spent with this book : ))
I'm glad you enjoyed The Two Destinies. I remember I enjoyed the rest of it, but the ending! Why didn't Mary run away at once?!
Well, the only explanation I have is that people do sometimes make stupid decisions which are hard to understand. What surprised me even more about this whole situation is that the American couple, after learning the whole story, went to see them, as is saying "hey, they are such nice people, let's go see them and be friends forever". I did not have an impression that they rushed there to protect the poor wife in case anything might happen. : ((
Feminists must have a different version of Dracula. Mina is depicted as strong and intelligent, and kind and chaste (which is not a bad thing for a woman to be actually).
I have attempted to read Dracula three times now. I always get to around 100 pages and then put it down. It’s become my Sisyphus.
Maybe after three attempts you have to give up for a while!
Dickens, who you like, and my parents loved, is almost as impenetrable as Carlyle for me. The soggy sentimentality and dire heroes and heroines. Admittedly, this is all from 'Oliver Twist'. I loved the 19th century Russian writers -- translation somehow makes them more modernly relevant. I think I speak for most English speakers. Chekhov seemed to be describing exactly my backwater provincial environment in the 90s before the arrival of the internet.
Oliver Twist is by far my least favourite Dickens novel - I'd recommend trying another, maybe Great Expectations or David Copperfield are good and more accessible starting points!
@@katiejlumsden You can see from my next comment we might be fundamentally adverse. But from reading James Pope Hennessy's amusing 1970s Trollope biography and re-watching the 1980s 'Barchester Chronicles' lately I might give the 3rd Barsetshire book a go, having never read any of him before. Don't know if you've done 'The Pallisers' TV series but it comes across as a dragging daytime soap opera.
I’m kind of enjoying Adam Bede but I find it isn’t one that I think about picking up, but when I do I enjoy it. I do want to pick up Dracula for Halloween, but I have my doubts on whether I’ll like it.
Yeah, it didn't terribly grip me. I do think maybe I should reread Dracula one day.
I may not read many of these books but I’d love to hear you talk about them. Delightful and lighthearted way and some fab expressions! You are so young with incredible energy and speed to devour classics and other novels.
You got all the way through 'Jude The Obscure' without giving your wrists a good seeing to?
'Silas Marner' remains ever in my mind, the totally true depiction of evangelical christians for all time, Silas's devotion to money after being disillusioned by them, then his re-birth after having all his money stolen and left with a little child. A template for me.
You are definitely right about "Jude The Obscure", definitely plastic cutlery only.
Your rapid speech almost makes me dizzy, but you're sensible, so I keep returning (from time to time).
You asked about Stevenson readers. I am a big fan. I first read TI as a teenager, but I am male, loved sea literature even then, and was fascinated by pirates. TI is a boy's adventure story; I know few women that honestly admire it, but I could be wrong. As you say, what RLS excelled at was pushing a plot along, quick characterizations, and ability to capture an atmosphere. I still especially love and admire the first few chapters at the Benbow where the story is set up; the details and the language were believable to a 50's kid from California. You might like Kidnapped (it is better literature than TI) and you receive a good cross section of what Scottish life might have been like in the 18th century. I can also recommend Travels with a Donkey and his travel writing about the American west. I think he was a limited, but true talent. I'd mention the Black Arrow, but you'd likely find it much like TI.
I agree with you on G. Elliot. She is a real struggle for me. I've only been able to finish 1 and 1/2 of her works.
And I love Hardy, but do not own (nor have read the) one you mention; I'll remember to avoid it. Far From...., Return of the Native, Tess, and the Mayor or Casterbridge are among the finest novels in the language. I don't think he receives (today) the attention he deserves.
Thanks for all the well thought out reviews and posts.
I’m currently reading Treasure Island and I’m currently not really liking it all that much either. One thing that really bothers me about Robert Louis Stevenson’s writing is that he just introduces characters without warning, like they’ve always been there. I don’t like that because I always end up having to back track to make sure that I didn’t miss anything.
Exactly! And it's just... a bit dull. I hope you get to some more enjoyable Victorian novels this month :)
I love George Eliot💕😁 Good to know though your point of view & thoughts not just on her but all the others. Appriciate it.
She's not for me, but I know many people love her work!
I liked Kidnapped, but I liked the film a lot better. With George Eliot's longer books, I tend to find the first chapter of each section incomprehensible, but then it starts to make sense after that.
I feel like I'd probably enjoy a film of Treasure Island more than the book tool.
Hallo have you read The sun does shine and Just mercy?
Oh my lord, I thought George Eliot's prose was dry as well. (However, I cannot possibly comment because I was 16 and gave up with Middlemarch at the 100 page mark.) I do intend to read Dracula this month - I saw the Hammer horror film a few years ago, and found it campy and melodramatic enough to appeal to me. I only got to page 40 when I last tried to read the book, but will definitely consider what you have mentioned in this video as I go into it. I also feel like I ought to read more Thomas Hardy, but I can never forgive him for A Pair of Blue Eyes, or Tess. (The latter simply because of the ending. The former because I thought it dreadful.)
Yeah, Eliot's pretty dry XD A Pair of Blue Eyes isn't great, and Tess isn't my favourite, but Hardy has a lot of other brilliant novels!
Great video. MILL ON THE FLOSS always sounds so appealing but I'll heed your warning and stay away lol
Ha I do recommend watching Jennifer's video on it too, for an alternate view! But it was definitely not for me.
I liked The Mill in the Floss generally, but I agree completely about the end. It was just so abrupt and, I thought, inappropriate.
I find Dracula interesting for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I can't say I like it, but I find it fascinating.
If Collins didn't have such long books, I don't want to read The Two Destinies, but I am SO curious now.
The ending was far too abrupt for me! I feel like the ending dropped it from a 2/3 star to a 1 star for me. And the Two Destinies certainly ought to be lower down your Collins list, even if you are curious! And I do have a feeling I would find Dracula more fascinating than frustrating if I were to reread it now.
Definitely read Dracula again! He definitely does not portray the women's sexuality in a positive way, but fears of sexuality was a huge theme of gothic literature in general. Maybe reading some gothic lit criticism would help it not be so annoying haha. It's got some great horror in it, IMO. (rushing in library so sorry if not making sense)
I will some time I think - I think there's a lot more to be gotten out of it that I haven't yet.
11:28 "Demonstrative creepy!" Thomas Hardy?!?
I know - what a surprise!
I also don't like the Mill on the Floss. I know that because it's the only one of her books I've only read once, back when I was 20 or 21. But you might like My Life in Middlemarch by Rebecca Mead, which I read very recently. Of course, I love George Eliot, but it gives good analysis and biography with less memoir than I had expected, and most of that is about Mead's travels researching the book. I've never wanted to read Stevenson or Dracula, and haven't read the other two, though I've read several Wilkie Collins books besides The Moonstone and The Woman in White, and don't like any of them as well as those two. The Hardy sounds perverted.
Yeah, the Hardy was quite weird. Sometime I might read My Life in Middlemarch - I enjoyed my reread of Middlemarch and while I gained a lot of respect for the novel, I still feel like there's something I'm just not quite getting about Eliot? I wish I had studied her at university.
One of the things Mead discusses is that when Marian Evans lost her religion she worked to find a morality separate from religion, and she worked that out in her fiction. That may help you figure it out. Another thing that comes to mind is that while Dickens was a heart an entertainer, George Eliot was at heart an intellectual, and this difference showed in their writing styles. She's definitely worth figuring out.
I agree with you on Mill on the Floss but love Silas Marner for its optimism and sentimentality. I have read loads of Stevenson and still like Treasure Island, but Kidnapped is better. I think the novels I have come to like least are those by George Gissing for the sheer weight of depression that I am left with at the end
I barely remember Silas Marner to be honest - I read it about 15 years ago! I LOVE George Gissing but he is pretty depressing!
I just finished Reading Treasure Island to my kids and they were bored. I was bored. And it’s not that there isn’t a lot going on or that it’s too sanitary, plenty of death in the book. But I felt the book (at least the last half of the book anyway)should have been called the Long John Silver book and his many moods. I loved reading about the characters who are referred to often in modern retellings and seeing how they were actually portrayed, but it wasn’t my cup of tea.
I just began Dracula (not a read aloud - too scary for some kids), but I think I will read them Little Women next. After the high seas adventure, a little bit of domestic adventures will feel enjoyable.
It's just a bit dull, isn't it?! Enjoy Little Women :)
I've only read Dracula and really loved it, but it was very interesting to hear your thoughts! I'm kinda curious to read the rest of those books :P
Thank you - I must try and reread Dracula some time :)
Me clicking on this video fully knowing my girl George Eliot is about to get roasted: 😒
Only kidding! I'm glad we at least share a mutual dislike for Treasure Island, the world's most BORING novel 😂
But of course :P And yes, glad you agree about Treasure Island - so surprisingly boring!
I gave Mill on the Floss 3 stars. The first half of the book was slow, indeed. Since you have tipped me off to some of the lesser know Victorian authors such as George Gissing, I find I am enjoying them quite a lot more than George Eliot.
oh no lol! i loved the mill on the floss and i found it very moving.
Yeah her writing style is just not for me.
just finished it! (the mill on the floss) I agree with everything you’re saying. If she wanted to show us their connection she had like first super boring half of the novel to develop it. I did not feel their bond at all. ending was like she just became tired writing and decided to abruptly end everything. If she will not marry pone of the guys then she should just die. 😒
Yeah, it just did not work for me!
Well I was really hoping that one of my Victober picks didn't show up on this list because I think our tastes are very similar, but alas, I see Dracula is on the list. But from what you described, those things aren't really my pet peeves, so I'm hoping I have a better experience with it.
I hope you enjoy it! I think they were especially my pet peeves when I was 18 - I do think perhaps it would trouble me less now.
This doesn't bode well for my plan to read _Silas Marner_ .
Well, Silas Marner I can probably safely say I have no opinion on. I read it when I was 14 and literally recommend nothing about it whatsoever!
Stick w it, Brian!
I read The Two Destinies, would love to discuss the ending and find what you felt was so strange. I myself felt is was a bit over the top but was curious as to what stuck out for you. I do however love the parts when George goes to the Shetland Islands and meeting Miss Duncross when he was sick in bed. It was really interesting and atmospheric especially since he can't see her face anytime she visits him. I also like when she visits him as he is sleeping and how he describes how he can hear her. I am lucky in that I have the complete works of Wilkie Collins in 30 volumes that was published sometime around 1903, the are still in great shape.
The ending is just so strange to me!
Just putting this a little further down for the sake of spoilers. I find the fact that he tries to kill her and then she happily marries him when she realises who he is just absolutely unbelievable and frustrating. I was really enjoying it up until the end though! I have so enjoyed everything else I've read by him too.
I haven't read the Two Destinies, but now I'm intrigued. I know I loved The Moonstone, so much so that it's on of the few books from my Victorian Lit classes that o genuinely wanted to keep. I hated The Mill on the Floss and I'm so glad there's someone else like me. Lol. The whole book was just weird and just when I felt like I was warming up to it, that ENDING happened. It's really made me wary of reading more George Eliot.
I'm glad to hear you hated The Mill on the Floss too - what?! I should say that I think Middlemarch and Daniel Deronda are much better; though they're not great favourites of mine, they are strong and interesting novels. There are a lot of better Wilkie Collins out there than the Two Destinies!
@@katiejlumsden I'm just curious about the ending, honestly. The fact that it's perplexing apparently awakens great curiosity in me.
I think everyone should read a novel that is disagreeable to some,but one way to find out is to read and find out. i am not a fan of dickens,or bronte,but i have a few i bought to see if i like them,it often takes time for me to get into the classic dickens,bronte,also i got george eliot and gaskill. i have to get out of the comfort zone of jane austen and start to read more classic that i wouldn't read before. but I thank you for guiding me to try gaskill and dickens.so i am going to try these classic. :)
Thanks - I hope you like Gaskell and Dickens when you try them.
Your mention of _Treasure Island_ and Stevenson brought back a quote about the American baseball player of the 1910's, Hal Chase, who was expelled from the game for betting against his own teams. Here is the quote: _"Could he have really existed, or was he perhaps invented by Robert Louis Stevenson, along with the Master of Ballantrae, Long John Silver, and the good Dr. Jekyll? Hal Chase is remembered as a shining, leering, pock-marked faced, pasted on a pitch-dark soul. There is some evidence that he appeared in the flesh, but I lean more toward the invention theory. What mother, if he was real, what Rosemary could have given birth to such a creature? ... His parentage is not much discussed in the literature, but he should have been, I would say, the bastard son of a bishop, by way of a woman down on her luck."_ Bill James, _The Historical Baseball Abstract._
Silas Mariner is very good and nice and short.
Thank you for dropping by my channel. So nice to meet you xxCatherine
Thanks Jayne :)
I read Dracula when I was in Middle school and never finished it because my class changed before I finished it. So I want to try to reread it
I would like to reread it sometime - it might change my opinion of it!
I think you might like Stevenson's short story The Body Snatcher. I recently read a 72 page book of his (is that a novelette or short story?) called The Story of a Lie that wasn't bad, though the ending tied things up too quickly. It was as if he were writing at a leisurely pace and then saw that the deadline was approaching or he was running out of paper and rushed the end into like 2 pages. I also just finished a short travel memoir of his called The Amateur Emigrant about a trip he took to the US in the lat 1800s. I found that one very interesting.
I also did not like Treasure Island...and am almost afraid to pick up Kidnapped for the reason you mentioned. Jekyll and Hyde is one of my all time favorites. I am trying more of his work and like his writing, but he made pirates boring and I don't know how that is even possible...but it is. Kidnapped I may never get to for fear of disappointment.
Ah yes, I have read the Body Snatcher - enjoyed that one, and had entirely forgotten I'd read it. The Story of a Lie sounds interesting, if a bit rushed. The Amateur Emigrant sounds very interesting. Jekyll and Hyde is amazing, but Treasure Island has really put me off trying Kidnapped!
Dracula was such a bore for me that after a while I didn`t even cared about fully understanding what I was reading haha
Ha yes I remember not loving the pace of it!
Your love of Wuthering Heights really has me questioning if our tastes align, but you're one of the few I've seen that share my dislike of Secret History (thank god I DNFd it - I was wondering if somehow it miraculously improved, given all the high praise), and Treasure Island was shockingly bad, given its classic status. I'm looking forward to reading your book.
Thanks! There are definitely a fair few of us who don't love The Secret History!
@@katiejlumsden OMG, just finished Glass Bead Game. It surpassed Wuthering Heights for most overrated classic - and I adore Steppenwolf. I also liked Little Friend by Donna Tartt. I'm not recommending it. I'm just pointing out I've enjoyed DT's writing and still thought SH was bad.
@bookishprincessemma once said that wilkie collins was better than charles dickens in her opinion. I've read many dickens novels and i absolutely adore his writing, his wit, and characters but I've never read or even heard of collins til she said that bold statement so I feel challenged now to read wilkie collins and see if it's true.
I've seen Baz Pierce review Wilkie Collins because apparently she wrote the first detective novels? I'm sure you can find people talking about those books here on Booktube. If you haven't heard of Baz Pierce, he's a jaded, Irish character who reviews primarily classics. 😊(Barry, the person behind the character, is a lot less cynical, who you only get to meet in the livestreams.)
Wilkie Collins is a man. He and Dickens were friends and did theatricals together.
@@rachelport3723 haha, see my blunder there! Victorian lit is not my forte. Thanks for clearing that up, Rachel.
Ha I think I'd probably go against Emma and say that for me, Wilkie Collins feels like a less good Dickens! However, I do enjoy his work, and have really liked 3 out of 4 of what I've read by him, The Two Destinies being the only exception, so I would recommend his work :)
Funny about Dracula and Frankenstein. I had a volume with both stories included, and I read Dracula as a 15 or so year old, and I like it very much. I didn't read Frankenstein until I was in my 40's. I couldn't get into Frankenstein. I'm thinking if I tried to reread Dracula I wouldn't like it as much now. It was adventurous then, now i think it would seem trite. Whereas if i gave Frankenstein a harder try I might be able to get into it and like it, I don't know.
I stumbled across this video because I'm conducting research to do a feminist rewrite of Dracula for young adults and so I'm delighted to see you didn't like it for the exact reasons I didn't! To be honest, I have a love hate relationship with it. I love many things about it, but the pacing and the sexism are just unbearable! I read it every couple of years and roll my eyes a great deal. Anyway, thank you so much for making so many videos on Victorians and their literature. They are very enjoyable!
Thanks very much - I struggle with Dracula a lot, but your rewrite sounds fascinating!
Hahahaha... this is your most unintentionally funny video of late Katie. If you re-read Dracula, I recommend seeking out the Norton Critical Editions edition; it has a very humorous, sardonic, tone to the professional annotations which always makes me laugh: "Once again, Doctor Van Helssing..."
I'll definitely look out for that one! (Although I think I might have somewhere my old school edition with all my pencilled notes, which might be rather entertaining too...)
Felt totally different about the women in Dracula.
Enjoyed hearing your reasoning for liking some Victorian books less.
Thanks :)
The mill on the floss is the first I read by Eliot. To me she's a much better writer than Dickens..much more real, much less stereotypical. I like some Dickens' novels but just the contrast makes me appreciate Eliot very much. Plan to read more of her.
I couldn't abide Vanity Fair by Thackeray. It is one of the most boring books I've read.
I didn't love that one either.
I am going to start reading Dracula soon and I am quite excited how I find it, especially after hearing you talk about how you didn't like it. I think my least favourite Victorian novel is The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins. Also felt little bit meh about Middlemarch and Tess of D'Urbervilles.
I'll be very interesting to hear your thoughts on Dracula when you've read it :)
Treasure Island was great so is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde by Stevenson.
I do enjoy Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde - much more than Treasure Island!
I've only read one of these, Dracula twenty years ago so it kind of stands with those other classics I read when young that, like you Katie, I think I might read differently now. I reread Hard Times recently only six years or so after the first time and enjoyed it so much more. I'm beginning to think all books, especially classics, need to be reread twice! As for the other books you mentioned, only Mill on the Floss intrigues me enough to read, there are plenty of other books by each of these authors to keep me going.
I do find my opinion often changes on rereading. Mill on the Floss is really not my cup of tea, but I do know a lot of people who love it.
Katie- would you consider dedicating one to breaking down books that have evolved in your own mind over time? I find this psychologically fascinating. I'm rereading a lot- and am finding my own perspectives quite absorbing- lol!!! I'm documenting my reactions over time. One favourite has gone from good to bad and back again in my mind every five years. Our own maturity and increasing experience so heavily dictates our reactions.... i'd love a whole series on this!!! (Not asking much 😆)
Katie would you consider a spoiler series for more in depth discussion??
I agree with your reasoning as why you didn’t like Treasure Island. I thought it was very boring and I had no reaction to it in the end.
Yes, agreed! I was really expecting it to be more adventurous and fun.
I tried to read Daniel Deronda by George Eliot for Victober, and just couldn't do it - I tried to read Chapter 6 twice, and failed! I don't know why I tried this book, since I didn't like Silas Marner and The Mill on the Floss. I really wanted to give her one more chance, but she'll never work for me. In September I re-read Bleak House by Charles Dickens and I just loved it. And I adore the Brontes and Anthony Trollope (Trollope is my favorite forever), so I don't believe I don't like George Eliot because I'm too stupid to read her novels. I just decided to read a biography of Marcus Porcius Cato (Cato the Younger) and I just love it.
I have only read Treasure Island in a bowdlerised children's version so I have never bothered with the full novel - but I can imagine that it is badly paced.
Yeah, the pacing wasn't great...
Great video! I felt the same way about Dracula. I liked the idea of Dracula’s story, because it was made so popular.
Thanks :)
How you describe your reaction to Eliot’s writing is how I feel about Austen’s writing. I find her prose so dry and droning.
I'm guessing u won't like all of Gissing, won't like Thackeray novels, nor all of Trollope. I'm also guessing that Vic fantasy authors won't be beloved by u either. I'm hung jury on whether u'll like the so-called silly novels that Eliot wrote a famous essay about.
Who are the silly novelists Eliot wrote about in that essay? I imagine I may have read one or two already. I doubt I'll like all of Thackeray, or ever read them all, but I expect to like the majority of Gissing. I expect I will love all of Trollope to be honest - I love his writing style so much that I just forgive his books any flaws!
I'm not going to speak for polymath highbrow author Eliot. Her short essay bashing these women authors' works is available for free online. I forget their names. They should've written a rebuttal vs George.
She doesn't name the novelists, but she discusses several of the novels in great detail. I read the essay for the first time a few months ago, and enjoyed it. I bought a complete GE for Kindle some time ago (for ridiculously little money) when one of my novels fell apart, but have just begun on the shorter things.
I share your appraisal of both Dr. Jekyll and Treasure Island. Some Stevenson’s short stories I like are The Bottle Imp and those in New Arabian Nights.
I'll have to add them to my list :)
We were set The Mill on the Floss at uni and I couldn't get through it. I do wanna try rereading it one day but to be honest I don't know if I'll ever manage to convince myself haha. I cannot stand Dracula! I hate the epistolary format, the treatment of women and just everything else too. Such an interesting video :)
Agreed! The Mill on the Floss is so boring... And Dracula is just not for me.
Thank you thank you and thank you! I really didn't like The Mill on the Floss. Waste of my time I say. You explain so well why.
And interesting what you said about Dracula. Also read it many years ago and didn't think about that interpretation.
Glad you agree on The Mill on the Floss!
The only book I’ve read by Stevenson is The wrong box. It’s a very funny mess comedy, it made me laugh.
Maybe that would be more up my street!
While not a massive fan of, 'The Well-Beloved' (although reminiscent of Yeats' love for Maude Gonne and then her daughter) I think I would have to choose, 'Jude the Obscure' as my least favourite Hardy novel: I don't think that I will ever read it again. I sympathise with the reviewer who was prompted to wonder just what it was that Fate had done to Hardy that he should rise up out of the countryside and shake his fist at it. I can see it is admirable but...!
Jude the Obscure is my favourite Thomas Hardy, but I'm well away it's a marmite book. I always try and dissuade people from picking it up as their first Hardy.
interesting angle ! Dracula was hugely disappointing to me. It started great, but devolved into a snoozefest.
I love Eliot ! just read Mill on the Floss, loved it. Also loved Middlemarch and Dan Deronda. Adam Bede is next !
Dracula was very disappointing! I just really don't get on with George Eliot.
Come on, give 'Dracula' another chance. Some Dickens novels (DAVID COPPERFIELD) are way more 'sexist' than 'Dracula' is.
Really?! I'd consider Dracula way more sexist than David Copperfield, though to be sure David Copperfield's not the best of Dickens's books in terms of gender. And we'll see about Dracula. I was hoping to ease myself back into Bram Stoker by picking up a lesser well known novel by him, but I was reading a few blurbs and none of them sparked my interest - have you read anything else by him?
Mina, unlike Agnes Wickfield, is not presented simply as a moral compass for the men (as David is for the reader); at least Stoker pays a homage to the 'New Woman' movement of his time. Alas, I haven't had the chance to read anything else by him but I'd love to since Gothic fiction is pretty much my thing these days. I'd be looking forward to your reread of Dracula in the future if you'd give it another chance. Whether you'd still hate it or not, I'll be eager to see!
*My guess 'sexist' is not really the right word to describe 19th c. lit. Maybe chauvinistic?
You surprise me. I love Silas Marner
I have enjoyed your videos but just as an fyi I had to slow them down to 0.75 as I just couldn’t keep up😆
The Well Beloved, "creepy"...no kidding. Downright disturbing. I too have a long love of Thomas Hardy's novels...but, recently, after my teenage son read Tess, and we spent hours discussing it, I have had to re-access my appreciation for Thomas Hardy. My son hates Hardy's novels because of how depressing they are, which is why I loved them...but, where as I believed they were "real" before (life is hard and disappointing, get over it), now I see Hardy as having a very sad view of humanity. Good Lord, Hardy must hate people. Thoughts? Does Hardy ever find anything redeeming about humanity?
I have no idea! Sometimes it doesn't feel like it . . . But then, one of the things I love about him is the moments of happiness snatched from the midst of despair.
@@katiejlumsden that is a good way to put it: "moments of happiness snatched from despair". Very true. That is one of the reasons I love the story of Jude.
Catriona is Stevenson's best novel in my opinion.
I haven't even heard of that one!
I think Brian @ Bookish is reading "Treasure Island." Id like to read Dr. Jekyll & Mr Hyde. Our Mutual Friend 😉 as well.
Dr. Jekyll & Mr Hyde is great :)
I began reading The mill on the floss but couldn't finish it: I find it boring. I love victorian novels, but probably I don't like George Eliot, just like you.
Demonstrably creepy the best statement describing a book🤣 I feel like I will definitely give all of these a wide birth except for Dracula as I hear it has Lesbian subtext going on 😄
I feel like I missed that lesbian subtext - maybe I do need to reread it...
Books and Things wait I got mixed up with Carmilla 🤣
Very funny, I liked Dracula when I was very young...but I probably couldn't stomach it at this point. Gender roles are what they are and we must remember what time this was written....wonder woman was the oddity at the time. Thomas Hardy, Jude the Obscure was horrendous, I hated it. Did you read that one?
I have indeed read Jude the Obscure. I actually love it, it's one of my favourite novels XD
Treasure Island boring? Dracula "problematic"? Is this a troll video?
Slow down!!!
Put your replay on at 0.75 speed and you will be happy.
Why on earth would you expect a Victorian novel to express 20th and 21st century feminist values? One of my biggest peeves is watching TV adaptations of 19th century classic literature and hearing 21st century "strong woman" dialogue come out of the mouths of the female characters that 99% of the time isn't in the books. Why do people forget that women of the 19th century and prior were very much women of their time, and that's NOT a bad thing? Showing how the vast majority of women really behaved and thought in those eras isn't suddenly going to send all women in the 21st century back into the kitchen. It's embarrassingly anachronistic to see classic female characters on screen suddenly adopting "strong independent woman" attitudes and dialogue. We shouldn't expect it in film because it wasn't intended in the original literature in most cases. Art imitates life, and life in the 19th century and earlier wasn't full of "strong" feminist women because feminism didn't exist.
One of the most egregious examples in an otherwise excellent adaptation is the 2007 BBC Sense & Sensibility. The actress playing Margaret Dashwood, who is about nine-years-old says, "I wish I was a man. Men go about the world accomplishing things, while women just sit at home and wait for things to happen." Ugh. I'm going to bet no 4th grade girl in 1814 ever had such a realization, and I'm quite sure it's not in the book. That was screenwriter, Andrew Davies', politics coming through, and I find it offensive that he would put his words and his politics into the mouth of long-dead Jane Austen simply because her work is in the public domain.
I wouldn't consider any of the female characters I've read in either Austen or Dickens "feminist" by nature. Lizzie Bennett is strong and determined, but she's still going to get married, have children, and manage the house while never having a formal education or career in the sense that we think of them, and that wasn't a bad thing in 1812. It isn't a bad thing now.
I would not expect a Victorian novel to express 21st century feminist values - but there are many Victorian novels which are very proto-feminist. It's interesting that you pick out that line from the Sense and Sensibility film, as while I don't think that's something you'd be likely to find in a Jane Austen book, that sentiment is expressed in many later 19th century novels, including Shirley by Charlotte Bronte, The Half Sisters by Geraldine Jewsbury, Hester by Margaret Oliphant and many more. I also highly recommend The Odd Women by George Gissing, if you don't think 19th century literature can be proto-feminist; and I also would very strongly argue that Dombey and Son by Charles Dickens has some wonderful proto-feminist passages. It's not exactly what we'd recognise as feminism today, but it's on its way.
@@katiejlumsden I love your channel, and I think you're so great, but I have to disagree. When we leave feminism and begin discussing "proto-feminism", then it becomes a matter of opinion because there is no generally accepted definition of what constitutes it. Is a regency or Victorian female character who just happens to have a certain degree of independence a "proto-feminist" or is she just...independent, a personality trait naturally inherent in hundreds of millions of people, many females of whom aren't feminists? I feel that many people who call 19th century female characters feminists are projecting their 21st century ideals onto them. In essence, they're seeing what they want to see or in this case, reading what they want to read to reinforce their own current beliefs.
I didn't see anything I'd remotely call feminist in nature in Dombey & Son. I've heard others call Jane Eyre a feminist novel. How so? She's a governess who ends up marrying a wealthy man and taking care of him. Some might say her famous words to Rochester about being "small, obscure, and plain" is a feminist confrontation, but I just call it sharing her feelings. To me, that's normal, not feminist.
By the way, I love that you love Our Mutual Friend, as do I. In my book, it's second only to Bleak House. I'd love to see you do single video character studies, as I have a problem with Eugene Wrayburn and his lack of character development, which makes him totally unlikeable and impossible to root for. I just don't understand why he's still basically a cad at the end and why Lizzie's love and nearly dying didn't change him in any fundamental way.