as i thief main I also hate this, it's so balanced around stealth and disengages that thief damage is insanely low (probably the worst in the game) and you ahve to go for full dmg stats which means that people can oneshot you if you missplay, i truly hate this gameplay, both annoying when you play it and when you play against it
@@Psc0Waks ye but it's a 12k hp class, so you can be instakilled if miss play, zerk warrior for example has 19k and also a lot more damage mitigation, it's the price we pay for mobility, which i don't really like
I think the most surprising thing here was that during this entire duel you weren't jumped by 14 random people "roaming" in their near-zerg-numbered group.
Respectfully, without stealth.. he dead. Without all your barriers and refreshes, you dead. Without all guardian blocks and what not, they dead. Rev resets and dodges, ded.
i agree, thief was better before HoT, i have played crap loads of thief both wvw and pvp, modern builds are just too much of everything, like you can almost bunker but deal dmg like a glasscannon, good example is elementalist, willbender and so on. and ye they added reveal skills... so the essence of thief was destroyed anyway also many classes can now stealth, before was just thief and mesm, now guard, ranger. In my mind i dont like it. I still play the game cause i love it, but it is not as fun as it used to be. The best times were dagger/dagger powerbuild, full glasscannon, huge risk, big gain like it should be, not survive with 1,2,3 shield skills, plus all the buffs in the game on rotation. sorry for unloading but ye this is what i think.
i see your point and i agree with it to a certain extent, stealth is too op, is damage mitigation, repositioning, free time to get your cooldowns, is an engage, a disengage, allows you to choose your fights, in thief it heals, it cleanses, it gives increased damage, and is available with virtually 0 cooldown. That being said... Honestly "fighting" those builds is not really that hard, and i mean it in the sense of countering them, you can bring reflects or projectile break if they are ranged, and you can throw aoe to your feet if they are melee. That rends them pretty much useless in zerg fights and pvp (where they also dont help with base capture due to their stealth). What is really difficult to do though is get the kill if they are cowards that just OOC. But truth be told that can happen with any other class: Willbenders can dash away from fights and teleport targeting npc animals and escape. Warriors can bring greatsword, sword+warhorn/staff/superspeedy banner/bull charge, and just run away. Rangers can bring greatsword, eagle, zephyr. Engis can bring rocket boots, rifle, stealth elixir or stealth gyro, superspeed gyro, superspeed photon forge. Mesmer has the stealth as well and the blinks. Necro has the wurm teleport, sand portal/jumps with harb/leap with reaper. And Ele has the enhanced swiftness or even superspeed when attuned to air, the teleport, the dagger dash, greatsword dash. So perhaps the issue is not really that you cant fight stealth, the case is more that if people are p*ssies they will find a way to play like it. Over time i just decided that if im roaming i take for myself a good mobility skill as well and if they OOC i just get distance, get on my mount and go elsewhere to someone that really wants to fight.
@@ryuzakikazeshini4012 there is a mark trap, but it doesn’t totally negate stealth, takes forever to set while you can’t move and is obvious, and is small AoE :(
This the shit that made me run celestial, sorry not sorry. im here to have fun too, not just the dude using this kinda builds. Then again im also not playing gw2 anymore soooo xD
stealth needs some type of rework; honestly i think an automatic reveal after 3 seconds, and an additional second of reveal would allow it to serve its purpose without being almost un-counterable.
@@itssobalanced Maybe also some kind of stealth mitigation? Give some stealth abilities slightly increased cast time and if you interrupt during stealth cast, then give them like a 10 seconds debuff that disables entering stealth? Just a thought, numbers can be tuned to be more balanced, but that would at least give a skilled player possibility to counter stealth? I guess it's all a bit hard to implement, with smoke fields and all that, but not every ability needs to be interruptable, but at least some of the rotation I am actually not good or knowledgeable in PvP, so I am just talking out of my ass here, but I think skilled players should have a better way to counter it.
@@IgnisAchilles I think a good starting point could be this: Hitting a stealthed character with a melee attack briefly reveals them before 'marking' them and showing a trail of blood (or some other indicator). This type of semi-reveal could only happen once every 3 seconds (just to give the stealthed player a chance to get away). AOE attacks which don't require a target can have a similar sort of mechanic with or without the reveal portion. Targeted attacks can remain as they currently are. We could also add some sort of reveal mechanic to some or all class' trait lines so that they will have at least one or two utility skills that can be traited to reveal stealthed targets in an area. The idea is to allow stealth to be used to sneak up or sneak away, but give players the possibility of fighting back vs stealth spammers once they can land a hit with a calculated guess, or potentially take away a more damaging trait option just to have the reveal option selected. Thoughts?
@@Keno_jmif every class had a reveal skill it would help BUT almost every thief can also out distance any other spec, so upon being revealed they would just ooc, thief can travel 900+900+1200+1200 (4,200 distance!) in
And that's why stealth must be reworked to be like in WoW so if thief gets hit during stealth he must be revealed right away on hit. Pretty sure ice comet hit him when he stealthed. But yeah as someone else said before, not seeing the enemy to 90% of the time surely is quite the engaging game design. We all know however that Anet is too dumb to balance tho.
At least scepter auto 1 hits 2/3 times after stealth and u can know wer hes goin ? else idk how i wud fight a de rifle, suldnt ooc in stealth so easily, lol even if the fight is over and i killed say a lord if i dont move i get ooc after 2 mins (sometimes) and i have auto target toggle key assigned for them . It helps else u have to press tab and u be late a split second
And Anet just nerfed Lock on trait of Engineer, 2 sec duration for a MAJOR TRAIT that has a 25 sec CD lmfao, they dont want condi SLBs and Thieves to be countered.
Tragic.
Thanks to TL for the duels
...Who can count the number of times I had to re-target opponent? xD
Not being able to see your opponent for 90% of the fight is some truly enjoyable and engaging game design
my thoughts exactly! xD
as i thief main I also hate this, it's so balanced around stealth and disengages that thief damage is insanely low (probably the worst in the game) and you ahve to go for full dmg stats which means that people can oneshot you if you missplay, i truly hate this gameplay, both annoying when you play it and when you play against it
@@IndyGW2 what do you mean you have to go full offensiv stats ?? like every other berz build
@@Psc0Waks ye but it's a 12k hp class, so you can be instakilled if miss play, zerk warrior for example has 19k and also a lot more damage mitigation, it's the price we pay for mobility, which i don't really like
@@IndyGW2 ele 11k hp in berz
I think the most surprising thing here was that during this entire duel you weren't jumped by 14 random people "roaming" in their near-zerg-numbered group.
@@cabbagemancer5679 lol we actually were between the duels
Oh boi, been there. Nearly perma-stealth and dodge build with the dodge food... If they play it right... its very tough xD
Respectfully, without stealth.. he dead. Without all your barriers and refreshes, you dead. Without all guardian blocks and what not, they dead. Rev resets and dodges, ded.
i agree, thief was better before HoT, i have played crap loads of thief both wvw and pvp, modern builds are just too much of everything, like you can almost bunker but deal dmg like a glasscannon, good example is elementalist, willbender and so on. and ye they added reveal skills... so the essence of thief was destroyed anyway also many classes can now stealth, before was just thief and mesm, now guard, ranger. In my mind i dont like it. I still play the game cause i love it, but it is not as fun as it used to be.
The best times were dagger/dagger powerbuild, full glasscannon, huge risk, big gain like it should be, not survive with 1,2,3 shield skills, plus all the buffs in the game on rotation. sorry for unloading but ye this is what i think.
i see your point and i agree with it to a certain extent, stealth is too op, is damage mitigation, repositioning, free time to get your cooldowns, is an engage, a disengage, allows you to choose your fights, in thief it heals, it cleanses, it gives increased damage, and is available with virtually 0 cooldown. That being said...
Honestly "fighting" those builds is not really that hard, and i mean it in the sense of countering them, you can bring reflects or projectile break if they are ranged, and you can throw aoe to your feet if they are melee. That rends them pretty much useless in zerg fights and pvp (where they also dont help with base capture due to their stealth). What is really difficult to do though is get the kill if they are cowards that just OOC.
But truth be told that can happen with any other class: Willbenders can dash away from fights and teleport targeting npc animals and escape. Warriors can bring greatsword, sword+warhorn/staff/superspeedy banner/bull charge, and just run away. Rangers can bring greatsword, eagle, zephyr. Engis can bring rocket boots, rifle, stealth elixir or stealth gyro, superspeed gyro, superspeed photon forge. Mesmer has the stealth as well and the blinks. Necro has the wurm teleport, sand portal/jumps with harb/leap with reaper. And Ele has the enhanced swiftness or even superspeed when attuned to air, the teleport, the dagger dash, greatsword dash.
So perhaps the issue is not really that you cant fight stealth, the case is more that if people are p*ssies they will find a way to play like it. Over time i just decided that if im roaming i take for myself a good mobility skill as well and if they OOC i just get distance, get on my mount and go elsewhere to someone that really wants to fight.
And or just ask ranger to kill them with sic em
bro, you're doing it wrong. have to mash every single button on the piano ele!
@@biomagic8959 ong you’re right!!!
All us FA's now this feeling
facts
I promise you I woulda left 20 mins into the fight or sooner
pop a stealth detect potion..o wait wrong game xD
@@ryuzakikazeshini4012 there is a mark trap, but it doesn’t totally negate stealth, takes forever to set while you can’t move and is obvious, and is small AoE :(
This the shit that made me run celestial, sorry not sorry. im here to have fun too, not just the dude using this kinda builds. Then again im also not playing gw2 anymore soooo xD
@@S33k3R7 you don’t like FA weaver? :(
@@itssobalanced Was referring to these stealth spamming thieves :D
So much OOC. ye they're a pain.
stealth needs some type of rework; honestly i think an automatic reveal after 3 seconds, and an additional second of reveal would allow it to serve its purpose without being almost un-counterable.
@@itssobalanced Maybe also some kind of stealth mitigation? Give some stealth abilities slightly increased cast time and if you interrupt during stealth cast, then give them like a 10 seconds debuff that disables entering stealth? Just a thought, numbers can be tuned to be more balanced, but that would at least give a skilled player possibility to counter stealth?
I guess it's all a bit hard to implement, with smoke fields and all that, but not every ability needs to be interruptable, but at least some of the rotation
I am actually not good or knowledgeable in PvP, so I am just talking out of my ass here, but I think skilled players should have a better way to counter it.
@@IgnisAchilles I'd take any form of balancing it xD
@@IgnisAchilles I think a good starting point could be this:
Hitting a stealthed character with a melee attack briefly reveals them before 'marking' them and showing a trail of blood (or some other indicator). This type of semi-reveal could only happen once every 3 seconds (just to give the stealthed player a chance to get away).
AOE attacks which don't require a target can have a similar sort of mechanic with or without the reveal portion.
Targeted attacks can remain as they currently are.
We could also add some sort of reveal mechanic to some or all class' trait lines so that they will have at least one or two utility skills that can be traited to reveal stealthed targets in an area.
The idea is to allow stealth to be used to sneak up or sneak away, but give players the possibility of fighting back vs stealth spammers once they can land a hit with a calculated guess, or potentially take away a more damaging trait option just to have the reveal option selected.
Thoughts?
@@Keno_jmif every class had a reveal skill it would help BUT
almost every thief can also out distance any other spec, so upon being revealed they would just ooc, thief can travel 900+900+1200+1200 (4,200 distance!) in
And that's why stealth must be reworked to be like in WoW so if thief gets hit during stealth he must be revealed right away on hit. Pretty sure ice comet hit him when he stealthed.
But yeah as someone else said before, not seeing the enemy to 90% of the time surely is quite the engaging game design.
We all know however that Anet is too dumb to balance tho.
sadly so lol
At least scepter auto 1 hits 2/3 times after stealth and u can know wer hes goin ? else idk how i wud fight a de rifle, suldnt ooc in stealth so easily,
lol even if the fight is over and i killed say a lord if i dont move i get ooc after 2 mins (sometimes)
and i have auto target toggle key assigned for them . It helps else u have to press tab and u be late a split second
Anet needs to add more Reveal to the game. There is barely any of it.
All this just to die again 😂
And Anet just nerfed Lock on trait of Engineer, 2 sec duration for a MAJOR TRAIT that has a 25 sec CD lmfao, they dont want condi SLBs and Thieves to be countered.
@@TheEightDomain odd enough as no major devs I know of main thief; mostly heavy armor
as someone who plays a lot of thief perna stealth is a crutch! but good fight!
refuse shadow arts like me fellow theif!
Hot take.... reflect damage should be at least 90% of the damage with crit%
@@djguydan reflect should use whatever number of damage they were going to do it’s a teflect
nothing hot about this take that's how it works in every game... reflecting malicious judgement for 140 damage is retarded...
And after all this sh1 they use macro ,scripts and evade bot yet they cry about it🤣
@@mustafaabdelkader3899 *holds abets hand tighter*
notice me senpai
@@Chipz_The_Cat :3