Worth checking your RT60's, I think most good rooms have a pretty even RT 60 response of 350-400ms from the 150-200 Hz up and you can manage some of the 500Ms plus in lower frequencies with EQ, I actually prefer 600-900 Ms below 60-80 Hz as its can be too dry otherwise. A clap test is of value (short sharp clap will highlight slap echo) to find where a panel might be worth investigating placement
nice and simple guidance for room treatment and for many people with small to medium size rooms might be the only things they need to know. Thanks Paul. But what about the back wall? not that important after all?
It's well worth investigating, diffusion needs to be tried as it very much depends, not too much either. Some 3D panels can make quite a difference to the acoustics
Well, well, well ... I used to live in Sutton Coldfield when I was a teenager !! The only way and the best way to listen to a home based sound system is to have it in a biggish room with 5 all brick walls and a high vaulted ceiling .... this completely eliminates primary reflections ... it's the only way ! If you spend all that money on a top end sound system why spoil it by putting it in a little boxy room ...😉
I find that in good audio rooms (most of my experience is with studios) your ears relax when you walk into them. Not dead, just quietly alive. But there is this moment of relief when you enter.
Omg that's exactly how it feels when i go into the room behind my garage. It has lots of shelves for storage (diffusors 😊) and a carpeted floor (absorber). Maybe that's why my speakers sound great in there.
In a regular living room there's a few other things that to do as well that has a higher WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor), like fabric furniture instead of leather, thick floor mat in front of the speakers, different drapes for the windows, some wallart etc. It's pretty interesting to change things, you'll hear the difference, and then you can use a microphone to actually see the difference. 🙂
thank you Paul, it's very useful BUT not everyone can move the speakers away from the wall. So in this case is a diffuser still useful? I'm planning to put a large skyline diffuser on the entire front wall. (all around the TV from floor to ceiling)
It seems to be nearly universal that most people (including myself) prefer diffusion over absorption. Easiest way to remove offending reflections as they are dispersed whereupon they can be absorbed by the carpet and furniture without deadening the room. That said, without taking actual measurements with mock-ups its all just guesswork.
Sorry about the rat 🐀 when I had the same issue pest control planted bait that dehydrated the rats…so they leave the house to get water and dry up like beef jerky in your yard…I remember pulling one out of my dogs mouth…anyway not sure if that’s allowed in Cali…you probably have to catch and release there 😉
English rooms are very bass reinforced because of the solid walls so more absorption then diffusion where are you I'm in the southeast could help you out
The answer depends on position of listener and speakers to the front or back wall. As closer the speakers are to the front wall as better is absorbtion, especially in bass (Speaker Boundary Interference Response - SBIR) behind, same at listening position with back wall. The early reflections from the side can be handled with diffusion if the side wall is not close, similar to the approach for listener and speakers. Mostly diffusion on the ceiling helps a lot. The overall target is a even reverb time over the frequencies, which represents a even behavour of the acoustical energy in the room, only achiveable with absorbtion, best starting at room edges and corners. Not everybody has inclined edges like Pauls room to handle the issue. REW is a good and free program to measure and get it right, but if you want DIY you must have a understanding of physics, mainly in acoustic basics.
I would consider REW to be pretty much a mandatory tool for audiophiles for setting up room treatments. Its time consuming to actually mock-treat each wall with absorptive blankets or the desired diffusor/absorber combos and see what its contribution is to the steady-state response and on the sonogram, but its well worth it as it means the room treatment produces the desired result and not more problems to fix.
Since no two environments, setups, or system equipment complements are unique, the “solutions” to any setup in any environment are also unique. A “dummy’s guide” would have to have several subsections that define different initial variables for environment, speaker type, setup configuration, etc. I would avoid trying to tackle a question like this in a 5 minute answer forum. Either write another book if necessary or plug sections of an existing one where possible maybe. That’s my $0.02. Not that anyone asked. I don’t mind if you don’t agree lol
Silly thought: would it make sense to put diffusing material around the drivers of box speakers (esp, wider ones) and around the sides as well? Even more silly, what of lining the front wall with egg crates as in the raio stuio on old HeeHaw shows? Half kidding on all here. Thanks Paul.
diffusion has to meet certain criteria for it to actually work properly, it's not easy to do like what many people think. it should be the last thing to consider when properly treating a room because you need to solve all the other issues first. the goal of diffusion is to make a room sound larger than it is, not to scatter sound in random directions. dead-sounding rooms are a result of incorrect use of material that has the wrong rate and level for voice.
I think most importend is ground opsorbing en side absorbing them base traps end or reflectors Im living in nederland walls er stone en flors end Ceiling or beton So reflectors in that case ar bad
Well, I’m not an acoustics expert but I think that if you can do two things, you’re most of the way there, One is deaden the room so that the high frequencies don’t bounce around all over the place and second, create a situation where you don’t have too strong of nodes or antinodes of the low bass frequencies in spots where you plan to listen, and then between those two, I think you’re pretty much set. Aiming for perfection is a fool’s errand, as there is no such thing, except the perfection of imperfection conjured up by the human mind..👨🏻
I had my living room tested by an acoustician. His recommendations: floor to ceiling acoustic panels (2" deep, 24" wide) in the corners, and thick curtains over the window and glass doors on the side walls. Optional: a curtain behind my listening position.
I have a single Bluetooth speaker that has one woofer and one tweeter plus a bass port in the back. It is not battery powered. I get a presentable sound stage from that Bluetooth speaker. If I told you who manufactured it, your jaw would hit the floor. So, I am not going to tell you.😀 I will give you a hint. The company first started in 1922. And it doesn’t begin with B..😀
Simple, to the point, one of the best videos I've ever seen on this subject.
I expected to SEE diffusers and absorbers in this video. I was disappointed
Worth checking your RT60's, I think most good rooms have a pretty even RT 60 response of 350-400ms from the 150-200 Hz up and you can manage some of the 500Ms plus in lower frequencies with EQ, I actually prefer 600-900 Ms below 60-80 Hz as its can be too dry otherwise. A clap test is of value (short sharp clap will highlight slap echo) to find where a panel might be worth investigating placement
nice and simple guidance for room treatment and for many people with small to medium size rooms might be the only things they need to know. Thanks Paul. But what about the back wall? not that important after all?
It's well worth investigating, diffusion needs to be tried as it very much depends, not too much either. Some 3D panels can make quite a difference to the acoustics
Thanks Paul.
Well, well, well ... I used to live in Sutton Coldfield when I was a teenager !!
The only way and the best way to listen to a home based sound system is to have it in a biggish room with 5 all brick walls and a high vaulted ceiling .... this completely eliminates primary reflections ... it's the only way ! If you spend all that money on a top end sound system why spoil it by putting it in a little boxy room ...😉
Paul... Can the air conditioning system in the room negatively affect the audio quality?
I find that in good audio rooms (most of my experience is with studios) your ears relax when you walk into them. Not dead, just quietly alive. But there is this moment of relief when you enter.
Omg that's exactly how it feels when i go into the room behind my garage. It has lots of shelves for storage (diffusors 😊) and a carpeted floor (absorber). Maybe that's why my speakers sound great in there.
Well put!
In a regular living room there's a few other things that to do as well that has a higher WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor), like fabric furniture instead of leather, thick floor mat in front of the speakers, different drapes for the windows, some wallart etc.
It's pretty interesting to change things, you'll hear the difference, and then you can use a microphone to actually see the difference. 🙂
thank you Paul, it's very useful BUT not everyone can move the speakers away from the wall. So in this case is a diffuser still useful? I'm planning to put a large skyline diffuser on the entire front wall. (all around the TV from floor to ceiling)
I miss the audio shows. Hear 😊 in Australia seems to have died a big miserable death.
Keep RT60 to the accepted level. Thats the first thing I will do after treating first reflection points.
Bass traps in the rear upper corners is a good idea also.
Are you at the Munich High End ?
It seems to be nearly universal that most people (including myself) prefer diffusion over absorption. Easiest way to remove offending reflections as they are dispersed whereupon they can be absorbed by the carpet and furniture without deadening the room. That said, without taking actual measurements with mock-ups its all just guesswork.
Sorry about the rat 🐀 when I had the same issue pest control planted bait that dehydrated the rats…so they leave the house to get water and dry up like beef jerky in your yard…I remember pulling one out of my dogs mouth…anyway not sure if that’s allowed in Cali…you probably have to catch and release there 😉
Those shoes look incredibly comfy!
😂
English rooms are very bass reinforced because of the solid walls so more absorption then diffusion where are you I'm in the southeast could help you out
The answer depends on position of listener and speakers to the front or back wall. As closer the speakers are to the front wall as better is absorbtion, especially in bass (Speaker Boundary Interference Response - SBIR) behind, same at listening position with back wall. The early reflections from the side can be handled with diffusion if the side wall is not close, similar to the approach for listener and speakers. Mostly diffusion on the ceiling helps a lot. The overall target is a even reverb time over the frequencies, which represents a even behavour of the acoustical energy in the room, only achiveable with absorbtion, best starting at room edges and corners. Not everybody has inclined edges like Pauls room to handle the issue. REW is a good and free program to measure and get it right, but if you want DIY you must have a understanding of physics, mainly in acoustic basics.
I would consider REW to be pretty much a mandatory tool for audiophiles for setting up room treatments. Its time consuming to actually mock-treat each wall with absorptive blankets or the desired diffusor/absorber combos and see what its contribution is to the steady-state response and on the sonogram, but its well worth it as it means the room treatment produces the desired result and not more problems to fix.
Should we have diffusors behind dipole speakers? I always thought that was incorrect.
👍, saludos.
Since no two environments, setups, or system equipment complements are unique, the “solutions” to any setup in any environment are also unique. A “dummy’s guide” would have to have several subsections that define different initial variables for environment, speaker type, setup configuration, etc. I would avoid trying to tackle a question like this in a 5 minute answer forum. Either write another book if necessary or plug sections of an existing one where possible maybe.
That’s my $0.02. Not that anyone asked. I don’t mind if you don’t agree lol
Silly thought: would it make sense to put diffusing material around the drivers of box speakers (esp, wider ones) and around the sides as well? Even more silly, what of lining the front wall with egg crates as in the raio stuio on old HeeHaw shows? Half kidding on all here. Thanks Paul.
Great video as always, continue the good Work Paul😎
On my desktop system. I placed diffusion plates on my computer screen.
I feel, it has tightened up the sound-staging better than a flat screen.
You all need to listen to your system in a carport (no walls) or maybe in an empty grass field.
Right , mine is like a amphitheater
diffusion has to meet certain criteria for it to actually work properly, it's not easy to do like what many people think. it should be the last thing to consider when properly treating a room because you need to solve all the other issues first. the goal of diffusion is to make a room sound larger than it is, not to scatter sound in random directions. dead-sounding rooms are a result of incorrect use of material that has the wrong rate and level for voice.
You better know what you are doing with room treatment, you could make things much worse.
Love it... And thank you for this vlog
Start with no diffusers , add small behind speakers and …. Less is more…
Something simple like these (points to something out of frame...)
Opinions are like a$$holes.....everybody has one
Yes, PS Audio did appear at AXPONA!
People in the business often say the first and most important thing is bass traps in the corners. Do you disagree?
I think most importend is ground opsorbing en side absorbing
them base traps end or reflectors
Im living in nederland walls er stone en flors end Ceiling or beton
So reflectors in that case ar bad
Well, I’m not an acoustics expert but I think that if you can do two things, you’re most of the way there, One is deaden the room so that the high frequencies don’t bounce around all over the place and second, create a situation where you don’t have too strong of nodes or antinodes of the low bass frequencies in spots where you plan to listen, and then between those two, I think you’re pretty much set. Aiming for perfection is a fool’s errand, as there is no such thing, except the perfection of imperfection conjured up by the human mind..👨🏻
I had my living room tested by an acoustician. His recommendations: floor to ceiling acoustic panels (2" deep, 24" wide) in the corners, and thick curtains over the window and glass doors on the side walls. Optional: a curtain behind my listening position.
I have a single Bluetooth speaker that has one woofer and one tweeter plus a bass port in the back. It is not battery powered.
I get a presentable sound stage from that Bluetooth speaker.
If I told you who manufactured it, your jaw would hit the floor. So, I am not going to tell you.😀
I will give you a hint. The company first started in 1922. And it doesn’t begin with B..😀
Please stop regurgitating the same topics over and over again? There are a plethora of topics in the realm of audio that have never been covered here.
Well send a suggestion/topic in then....you do know "new" viewer may have missed those to....
Urm, it's not a channel for you I'm afraid, it's for all of us, Paul is free to pick up the messages he feels he wants to respond to.