After watching all of your videos on turbocharging/supercharging, variable geometry turbos seem like the best method of forced induction to me. And thanks a lot for all the videos! (aspiring automotive engineer here)
I love the idea of a twincharger system. However, not a lot of OEM makers go this route due to complexity (VW had a 1.4 twincharger engine sold in Europe, but killed it due to high price and complexity). However, Volvo recently created a 2.0 Twincharger engine for their T6 trim...
its actually pretty easy.... i mentioned above i did it recently on a porsche 924 2.0 liter. once you wrap your head around the plumbing of it easy to execute though requires programmable aftermarket ecu. the biggest issue with the system is finding the room under the bonnet to pull it of
+Trades46 Another one of the few cars that used a twincharging system was the Lancia Delta S4 Group B car, in both Stradale (road model) and Evoluzione-II (competition-spec) versions.
Captain Ghost twin turbo doesnt mean better. Becouse twin turbos works in differnet RPMs, one huge singel turbo is way better than twin turbos. Atleast more horsepower and tuning potensial.
Captain Ghost BMW 335i twin turbo, 305 horsepower, if you switch them with a singel turbo you can get 500-800horsepower becouse it can handle way higher boost of pressure.
MrChriz333 and this is why they are better especially if you can tune your supercharger to quickly spool that single turbo that you are more realistically going to get more power from
I just Googled this topic because the T6 engine in my Volvo uses both and includes the Polestar Engineered mode. Thank you for explaining the interaction and benefits so clearly.
Seeing this video only one thing comes to mind: the monstrous Lancia Delta S4. A great example where twincharging is working amazing! As another guy asked, we would love to see a video explaining the difference between bov, dump pipe, screamer pipe and all this stuff!!!
Does this setup eliminate tubo lag?? Correct me if I'm wrong. The supercharger will take over in the initial stage of throttling (mid range RPM), therefore the turbo will have enough exhaust to feed from even before fully kicking in.
Hi, love the video. What would happen if you don't run the clutch set up and bypass valve? Also would it cause damage to the supercharger if you didn't run them I was thinking if running a Magnusson 2300 Heartbeat on my already turbocharged LS1 Than you for your help. I
Hopefully you've been told many times that your channel is helpful and informative. If not, then...your channel is helpful and informative. And, I appreciate the effort you put into these videos.
I imagine it must be difficult to tune an engine with both a supercharger and a turbo. Years ago I know it was thought to be impossible, but these days more and more people seem to have perfected it
Ok but can we talk about how Hector is going to be running 3 Honda Civics with spoon engines. And on top of that, he just went into Harry's, and he ordered 3 T66 turbos, with NOS. And a Motec exhaust
I actually seen someone who did it to his Ford GT, but then when be dynoed his car I notice supercharger "Whine" then turbo, so basically from what I understand of this idea is you will never have turbo lag or lose throttle response, to be honest it sounds like a lot of work but it would be sick setup because you will not lose boost because "supercharger belt" might rip at high boost or get damaged, P.S: great job and subbed
yep you get it sadly the supercharger has to drop off on the high end one to save its lifespan from wear and tear on top of constant usage giving heatwear but also i have heard if its on in the high rpm since superchargers start to bog it actually bogs the turbo somewhat as well
Im 17 and got my first truck a 1998 Chevy Silverado with a V8 motor 3 day ago and I've been watching videos like this because I really don't know about cars and trucks. I feel like this video really help I'm making my decision on whether to put a supercharger or turbocharger on my truck thanks
From my understanding of forced induction. I used to work for one of the first companies in Australia to cast turbo housings. The twin scroll is hard to beat for simplicity and cost effectiveness. Of course with engines in a V configuration twin turbo installations are hard to beat. I was suprised that belt driven impeller type superchargers never took off in the OEM market.
duddddde i love this dude, just found the cannel 20 min ago looking to understand what a turbo was and now i feel like an axpert on the diffrences of turbo and super charger and cuz of the other vids also know the different types of each lovin it
Benefit is the turbo sees an effectively larger engine due to the already larger airflow created by the supercharger. So the turbo can be much larger. You need to think in pressure ratios though to get your head around it.
Im curious about that too.. I wonder if having a SC feed pressurized air into a turbo will help spool the turbo more on the low end before it gets exhaust gasses.. Its probably negligible but would be interesting to see how each configuration would compare
@@ryanbernard6550 i wouldnt necessarily say that i mean back in rally they used to use misfire systems that when you would brake would make the car misfire to backfeed exhaust pressure to spool the turbo up even off of throttle the only reason they dont use them anymore is it uses a lot of fuel i think as well as cutting the engines life in half but when its running it defiantly made a huge difference mainly in making cars like lan evo's really good at dog fighting in rally since you could brake and then dive into a corner straight sideways while slamming the throttle to the floor at over 90 miles a hour
Oh my ... I love this stuff! Registercharging, Dual charger, twostage turbo, ... ... and all the nice things we can do when this is further made more complex, miller cycle always comes to my mind (because it is the logic net step after downsizing and optimization of detailery and stuff), hybrid also, and those two, with a halfway-complex, halfway-efficiently used boosting/recovery-system, with an electrically pampered ICE, the improvements in efficiency that are literally lying in front of our feet are only exceeded in their impressivity by no one really going all the way. All the cool things that came into greater series production have been lying in drawers since close to forever. Stratified injection? Old, thirties! Variable valvelift and duration? Twenties! Turbochargers with, say, variable compressors? At least 20 years old. Electrically assisted turbochargers? Were "the next big thing to come!" ever since downsizing became the industrie's standard. Anyway - I love your videos, because, it seems, you are a great narrator and know your stuff. I haven't heard anything that was wrong so far, nothing that was harder to understand than it needed to be. I must admit, I sometimes chose 1.25 speed at youtube, I would actually like you to talk a little bit faster ... but then, again, who am I to demand anything? ... one of my favourite channels - keep doing this, stay true to yourself and ... and ....... uh ....... have a nice day? Yeah. It in fact IS a nice day.
The turbo will re-compress the air coming from the supercharger. You don't need the supercharger on a clutch, and do not require a bypass valve. It's called compound boost. It's a very simple system.
What if in high RPM you never disconnect supercharger, 1. Is it possible both working together in high RPM?, 2. If last question is yes, is boost increase dramatically?, 3 what are advantages and disadvantage to use twin-charger at same time in high RPM? Great Video by the way
The glory i see from this is you have a efficiently mode you can do where you can simply just not activate the super and you can drive somewhat efficiently in low rpm
Turbochargers are not as reliable as superchargers (not trying to trigger anyone). Its a true fact, Even though superchargers burn more fuel. i should have put this comment on the turbochargers vs supercharges video...
You guys might get a kick out of some of the aircraft engines used in WW2, like the turbo compound Wright 3350, plus most others had either centrifugal superchargers, turbosuperchargers, or both, mostly to "normalize" the thin air at high altitude. But the TC 3350 had three turbos which had shafts that added the power right back to the crank for efficiency. The last dying throes of the large recips.
A number of piston airplane engines used in the 1940s and 50s have both a blower and a turbo. However the turbo is normally used for cruising at high altitudes, 15,000ft or higher. It’s only used at altitudes below 10,000ft for depressurization of the cabin prior to landing.
Everyone explains twinchargers as supercharger 1st than turbo charger 2nd. When actually this is all relevant to the size (and efficiency) of the turbo and super charger (not to forget the pulley size on the supercharger) Theoretically one could have a turbo at low rpms and supercharger at high rpms depending on the size of each. Maybe a video demonstrating how to pick the right size turbo or supercharger (or twincharger) depending on engine displacement would be a good additional video. Don't forget twin turbos and twin superchargers. (pulley sizing probably won't be a bad idea either) Thanks again.
Lancia has a twin charged rally car with 800hp....Chris Harris from /Drive has a video on it. Not sure if you're a fan but MAN I love that channel. Also good explanation as well. I've been avoiding your videos because I'll spend entirely too much time watching them instead of going outside XD. Good job man!!! Again congrats on the STi!
Also I run atmosphere => Turbo => Supercharger (SC14 roots type) => intercooler => TB => intake manifold, no bypass valve needed with a a/c clutch type s/c (just free spins)
Alex Clemente actually that is just TT. They took the stock supercharger off when they started the build. And I'm not too sure about the nitrous either
This is the way VW 1.4 TSI was set up. Good for steady boost and inherently fail-safe, as the supercharger will limit the air flow according to engine RPM. Lancia S4 group B rally car did it the other way around. They had the turbo feeding the supercharger. Not as simple for a steady boost or as fail-safe, but allows really fast and high boost as the pressure ratios are multiplied. As for the reduced efficiency during transition, it's true multiplying 70% efficiency of a turbo with 70% efficiency of a supercharger doesn't yield a nice number, BUT either compressor needs to do a lot less work which makes up for a lot in the overall energy consumption.
I have a Chrysler 300C with the 5.7 HEMI. Been toying with the idea of either a supercharger or turbocharger. Wondering what would be needed to build a twincharger instead...
well that would depend mainly on setup if you had huge 57mm turbos it would make crazy power...all the supercharger is doing is making up for the turbo lag and giving you the low end grunt that turbos just cant do
Michael Budlong yup, stick with the single turbo because less parts means more reliable. 1 massive turbo can do as much as twin turbos because the supercharger removes the lag.
There is no point of using supercharger on twin turbo engine, the reason they make twin turbos is exactly the same as the supercharge a big turbo engine, and it is to eliminate the turbo lag! one turbo kicks in first and helps spin the othe turbo= elimination of big lag and get better throttle response! Hope that makes sense!
Thank you for explaining it that was awesome thank you thank you so much man what I learned when you explain I learn a lot once again thank you thank you
Either I'm missing something or your flow diagram has a problem, specifically the location of the bypass valve. In the diagram boosted charge from the supercharger connects to the atmosphere during mid RPM. Under such conditions some of the boosted charge will flow backward in the intake. In twincharging I thought it was easier to have the intake flow to the turbo first then to the supercharger. Air will flow through the turbo as it does below the boost threshold and compressed by the supercharger. Above the boost threshold boosted air will be delivered to the supercharger. If one wanted to bypass the supercharger at some point the bypass valve would be located between the turbo outlet and the supercharger inlet.
I haven't heard of this on a Honda d-series engine, but definitely going to try it if I can get the money going. Expensive, but I'm a die hard d-series guy all day
Because the supercharger starts to put too much strain on the engine crankshaft, as it tries to increase power, which decreases amount of exhaust gases, and decreases force of the turbo. And at the beggining they both are on
There is an air Force mustang out there where they put LCD screens in itfor the windows I believe but it has a supercharger on each the valve cover 9r over and the turbo on each side so twin supercharged in twin turbo and they had some kind of hud technology to make it look like a jet the seats at in the center and it was able to be driven gas brake and steering all in a joystick like a fighter jet has it's awesome
Good video, though the tech is a bit old. Rolls Royce were doing twin charged systems back during WWII. The BRM V16 1.5L also had a two stage supercharged induction system pushing 600+ hp, and the engine was also made by rolls incidentally. Changing one stage from a supercharger to adding a turbine is rather trivial really.
i like the juice n boost turbo combo. the blower is 24/7. the turbo can be mitigated by normal driving. so...when you feel the need...the need for speed...you can romp the throttle ..enjoy the turbo.if you cant tolerate the turbo lag for whatever reason ( supercar pulls up next to you at the light)... you can engage an electric opener for a nitrous system ( juice)... dial in 25/ 75...100 horsepower...whatever...by jetting...purge and arm all within a few seconds...now you have the off the line nitrous hit...and then the turbo will take over...and after you say a quick prayer...you can laugh at the Lamborghini in the rearview.
From what I've read you mostly install the turbo (which can be obnoxiously large) in series, and then have the wastegate measure the boost after the supercharger ( that's pretty important as the boost of the turbo will be compounded with the blower's boost rather than just added to it)
Few questions. Why not, instead of a clutch to the supercharger, simply have an opening for air above the compressor screws? Turning the supercharger isn't what robs power, the act of compressing air does. By preventing the air from compressing, the only power draw is friction at the bearings and the rotating mass of its internals (which is minimal).
Bro a roots blower or a gmc supercharger (this is important) the blower is positive displacement not like a procharger or turbo ... The suoercharger made a 2 stroke diesel work and they had turbos for more power. The blower made the engine function.
Hey just wanted to ask, is there a way to create two air intake valves so one goes to the supercharger an the other to the turbocharger and are both compressed, then meet up in a large intake manifold that then takes this compressed air to the engine?
im looking at vectra vxr for my next car, these come with a twin scroll turbo meaning boost comes in early and a remap will see 400lb ft of torque!, the downside is that the turbo runs out of steam VERY early and the power drops dramatically. my idea was to pair a centrifugal supercharger (more rpm = more boost) with the turbo to give a huge power band. the thurbo gives low/mid rpm power and the supercharger gives great high rpm torque (and hence hp) do you think thats feasable?
Let's say your supercharger works as your intake... would you still need to use this clutch method or would it work like that at all, or is there a way around it? Is their other types of twincharger, if so how do they work? What's the major differences. I would love to see a newer more in depth video on twinchargers. Thanks +Engineering Explained , love your videos keep at it.
6yrs on no one has replied 😢 It can but you’re losing power and efficiency turning a supercharger that will do nothing more at higher rpms which turbos excel at.
@@13965082 Thank you, I really appreciate the response. In the time since I originally commented I've learned alot more about twin-charging and compound boost. Despite all the the complexities and disadvantages of the setup I enjoy the benefits of the the combination so I'm currently working on a custom Twin-charged setup utilizing dbw and multiple throttle bodies. Even after all this time I'm still playing with these setups💜.
Why not go with a y connector before the intercooler and have the intercooler fed separately from the supercharger and turbo charger. Have separate air filter for the Turbocharger and for the Supercharger. Avoid connecting the Turbocharger and Supercharger in the intake process as it will simplify the piping and also avoid the need of that bypass valve.
I have always been fascinated by this but I wonder if the re-engagement or the clutch is going to unsettle the car when you lift off and the car is coasting. Does the clutch engage smoothly or is it more of an on/off switch. If you are decelerating and this things engages mid corner I imagine it would be very unpleasant situation
On off switch. I have a twincharged 1.4 tsi. It engages based on throttle pedal position, so you just learn it with time. You can feel when it kicks in: much more torque, acceleration and of course, noise! And no, there's no issue with it being an on off switch.
I suppose you could use a viscous coupling for a smoother take up, I'm thinking of making my own system, I've got a 5 series bmw with engine problems and if that thing has to come out I'm getting frisky with it 😂
Could you have a twin turbo and a supercharger ? Would it work the same as a single turbo twin charger setup (as in the boost running thru the supercharger then thru both turbos) just wondering, I dont think it would be very useful but very cool if it's possible
I have a question you could explain, more in depth. About turbo impeller size and spec vs the same in your supercharger and how to spec them per liter of engine.
Always loved the concept of twincharging but I know none of the science behind this so help me if my reasoning is off Is this setup the most effective use of the supercharger? Air from S/C hits the turbine of the T/C, then turns a hard right to get to the engine. Sounds very restrictive. The perfect setup (in my mind) would be a "y" pipe right before the Throttle Body. And it has to be the lower case "y" with T/C connected to the straight side facing the TB and S/C connected to a Blow Off Valve, then to the branched side of the "y". There would be a flange where the "y" intersects which closes off the T/C side during S/C operation. Guess a BOV would be needed on the T/C side for good measure. As the amount of boost on the T/C side starts to meet the S/C or it meets a certain RPM (however it works), the flange begins to close off the S/C. The S/C should disengage exactly when (preferably right before) the flange completely closes expelling its leftover boost via BOV. Take your foot off the pedal, meet the same requirements but in reverse, and the flange swings back the other way. Would this be a functional system?
Would it be possible to run a kenne bell supercharger and twin turbos with that concept? If so how would you stop the supercharger from spinning and how would you keep the turbos going?
I understand what your saying that the super charger works at low rpm and the the turbocharger works at higher rpm so at what rpm range does it take over
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
This vid was posted ~5+ years ago and I've been wondering about this very topic for even longer.
Thanks for this
Me too, just tonight I decided to find out what the difference between both is and then wondered "why not just use both?" And TAAADAAAAA!!!
its been 10 years and people still want to learn about it
After watching all of your videos on turbocharging/supercharging, variable geometry turbos seem like the best method of forced induction to me. And thanks a lot for all the videos! (aspiring automotive engineer here)
I love the idea of a twincharger system. However, not a lot of OEM makers go this route due to complexity (VW had a 1.4 twincharger engine sold in Europe, but killed it due to high price and complexity). However, Volvo recently created a 2.0 Twincharger engine for their T6 trim...
Trades46 Indeed they did! 2015 Volvo S60 - Twincharged - Review & Test Drive
its actually pretty easy.... i mentioned above i did it recently on a porsche 924 2.0 liter. once you wrap your head around the plumbing of it easy to execute though requires programmable aftermarket ecu. the biggest issue with the system is finding the room under the bonnet to pull it of
Trades46 I drive said 1.4 twincharged engine, little thing is an absolute peach 😄
Trades46 I drive said 1.4 twincharged engine, little thing is an absolute peach 😄
+Trades46 Another one of the few cars that used a twincharging system was the Lancia Delta S4 Group B car, in both Stradale (road model) and Evoluzione-II (competition-spec) versions.
You make life so easy, thank you. (y)
I know this one! Supercharger + Turbocharger = Erection!
Twin Turbo plus a Twin Supercharger=Bigger Erection
Captain Ghost twin turbo doesnt mean better. Becouse twin turbos works in differnet RPMs, one huge singel turbo is way better than twin turbos. Atleast more horsepower and tuning potensial.
Captain Ghost BMW 335i twin turbo, 305 horsepower, if you switch them with a singel turbo you can get 500-800horsepower becouse it can handle way higher boost of pressure.
MrChriz333 and this is why they are better especially if you can tune your supercharger to quickly spool that single turbo that you are more realistically going to get more power from
= this guy ...
I just Googled this topic because the T6 engine in my Volvo uses both and includes the Polestar Engineered mode. Thank you for explaining the interaction and benefits so clearly.
Seeing this video only one thing comes to mind: the monstrous Lancia Delta S4. A great example where twincharging is working amazing! As another guy asked, we would love to see a video explaining the difference between bov, dump pipe, screamer pipe and all this stuff!!!
I was hopping you were going to explain the advantages and disadvantages on a setup like this.
The only real disadvantage is cost and complexity.
Does this setup eliminate tubo lag?? Correct me if I'm wrong. The supercharger will take over in the initial stage of throttling (mid range RPM), therefore the turbo will have enough exhaust to feed from even before fully kicking in.
That's why Lancia did it with the 1986 Delta S4 Group B car. 0-60 in 2.7 seconds.
Hi, love the video. What would happen if you don't run the clutch set up and bypass valve?
Also would it cause damage to the supercharger if you didn't run them
I was thinking if running a Magnusson 2300 Heartbeat on my already turbocharged LS1
Than you for your help.
I
@@thanasikassi3095 You'd just be loosing power at higher rpm ranges to the Supercharger and technically you would have eliminated the Turbo's work
this setup looks very interesting, kinda wanna try it with my CA18
@@thanasikassi3095 2.5 seconds*
Hopefully you've been told many times that your channel is helpful and informative. If not, then...your channel is helpful and informative. And, I appreciate the effort you put into these videos.
Your videos are very informative, easy to follow and enjoyable to watch. Thank you for the knowledge :)
I imagine it must be difficult to tune an engine with both a supercharger and a turbo. Years ago I know it was thought to be impossible, but these days more and more people seem to have perfected it
Ok but can we talk about how Hector is going to be running 3 Honda Civics with spoon engines. And on top of that, he just went into Harry's, and he ordered 3 T66 turbos, with NOS. And a Motec exhaust
F&F
I was just thinking if that’s a soon as I heard Hector👍🏽
I wish I could laugh react this
I actually seen someone who did it to his Ford GT, but then when be dynoed his car I notice supercharger "Whine" then turbo, so basically from what I understand of this idea is you will never have turbo lag or lose throttle response, to be honest it sounds like a lot of work but it would be sick setup because you will not lose boost because "supercharger belt" might rip at high boost or get damaged,
P.S: great job and subbed
yep you get it sadly the supercharger has to drop off on the high end one to save its lifespan from wear and tear on top of constant usage giving heatwear but also i have heard if its on in the high rpm since superchargers start to bog it actually bogs the turbo somewhat as well
Twincharged my buick regal gs. Highway missile.
Was it hard to setup?
That thing the ultimate sleeper
Hey I want to twin charge mine what's the best steps to take?
Im 17 and got my first truck a 1998 Chevy Silverado with a V8 motor 3 day ago and I've been watching videos like this because I really don't know about cars and trucks. I feel like this video really help I'm making my decision on whether to put a supercharger or turbocharger on my truck thanks
I have watched all ur videos nearly on turbo/super chargers nd combustions nd it has been a really help
So I appreciate the time u spent to help everyone that's watched this
Can you do a video of Nissan's 400 HP, 3 cylinder 1.5 liter engine?
I hope to!
yes! plz do i would like to put that engine in my samurai so it would be nice to see how the eff they do it first
I think that engine costs above $30k
Engineering Explained do it!!!!
@@EngineeringExplained pls do it
Your videos are well structured and you explain really well. Thank you
From my understanding of forced induction.
I used to work for one of the first companies in Australia to cast turbo housings.
The twin scroll is hard to beat for simplicity and cost effectiveness.
Of course with engines in a V configuration twin turbo installations are hard to beat.
I was suprised that belt driven impeller type superchargers never took off in the OEM market.
duddddde i love this dude, just found the cannel 20 min ago looking to understand what a turbo was and now i feel like an axpert on the diffrences of turbo and super charger and cuz of the other vids also know the different types of each lovin it
Bro, I always think which is better but you just teach me that both will be at the best if both are combined. Thanks bro
Thanks,
This explained the combination the best. We are getting the Volvo XC60 T6 which runs off this method.
Very nice vid man. TC must be experienced hardly anyone imagines how much kick it gives from the start. No turbo can give low end like sc.
Can you do a vid on compound charging where the turbo feeds the supercharger? I don't understand the benefit of this.
Benefit is the turbo sees an effectively larger engine due to the already larger airflow created by the supercharger. So the turbo can be much larger. You need to think in pressure ratios though to get your head around it.
Im curious about that too.. I wonder if having a SC feed pressurized air into a turbo will help spool the turbo more on the low end before it gets exhaust gasses.. Its probably negligible but would be interesting to see how each configuration would compare
RaliTek has some videos on one of their projects that use this idea. Over boosting and parasitic loss are the main problems with it.
@@ryanbernard6550 i wouldnt necessarily say that i mean back in rally they used to use misfire systems that when you would brake would make the car misfire to backfeed exhaust pressure to spool the turbo up even off of throttle the only reason they dont use them anymore is it uses a lot of fuel i think as well as cutting the engines life in half but when its running it defiantly made a huge difference mainly in making cars like lan evo's really good at dog fighting in rally since you could brake and then dive into a corner straight sideways while slamming the throttle to the floor at over 90 miles a hour
@@dr.dylansgame5583 antilag is bad for trubochargers, especially older, lower tolerance turbos. Itll drastically decrease turbo life
Lancia Delta S4
Oh my ... I love this stuff! Registercharging, Dual charger, twostage turbo, ...
... and all the nice things we can do when this is further made more complex, miller cycle always comes to my mind (because it is the logic net step after downsizing and optimization of detailery and stuff), hybrid also, and those two, with a halfway-complex, halfway-efficiently used boosting/recovery-system, with an electrically pampered ICE, the improvements in efficiency that are literally lying in front of our feet are only exceeded in their impressivity by no one really going all the way.
All the cool things that came into greater series production have been lying in drawers since close to forever. Stratified injection? Old, thirties! Variable valvelift and duration? Twenties! Turbochargers with, say, variable compressors? At least 20 years old. Electrically assisted turbochargers? Were "the next big thing to come!" ever since downsizing became the industrie's standard.
Anyway - I love your videos, because, it seems, you are a great narrator and know your stuff. I haven't heard anything that was wrong so far, nothing that was harder to understand than it needed to be.
I must admit, I sometimes chose 1.25 speed at youtube, I would actually like you to talk a little bit faster ... but then, again, who am I to demand anything?
... one of my favourite channels - keep doing this, stay true to yourself and ... and ....... uh ....... have a nice day?
Yeah. It in fact IS a nice day.
The turbo will re-compress the air coming from the supercharger. You don't need the supercharger on a clutch, and do not require a bypass valve. It's called compound boost. It's a very simple system.
What if in high RPM you never disconnect supercharger, 1. Is it possible both working together in high RPM?, 2. If last question is yes, is boost increase dramatically?, 3 what are advantages and disadvantage to use twin-charger at same time in high RPM? Great Video by the way
Thanks for the forums your explanations are brilliant, cheers from Queensland Australia
The glory i see from this is you have a efficiently mode you can do where you can simply just not activate the super and you can drive somewhat efficiently in low rpm
Turbochargers are not as reliable as superchargers (not trying to trigger anyone). Its a true fact, Even though superchargers burn more fuel.
i should have put this comment on the turbochargers vs supercharges video...
lmao, very wrong video XD
Isn't that mainly a torque and heat issue?
You guys might get a kick out of some of the aircraft engines used in WW2, like the turbo compound Wright 3350, plus most others had either centrifugal superchargers, turbosuperchargers, or both, mostly to "normalize" the thin air at high altitude. But the TC 3350 had three turbos which had shafts that added the power right back to the crank for efficiency. The last dying throes of the large recips.
I’ve been doing a project on how this works all yeah I’m very happy I found this video and disappointed that it took this long to find
I wish I could experience this kind of set-up. Looks awesome.
A number of piston airplane engines used in the 1940s and 50s have both a blower and a turbo. However the turbo is normally used for cruising at high altitudes, 15,000ft or higher. It’s only used at altitudes below 10,000ft for depressurization of the cabin prior to landing.
Prime Movers (what we would call engines) in diesel locomotives had super and turbochargers for a few years.
Everyone explains twinchargers as supercharger 1st than turbo charger 2nd. When actually this is all relevant to the size (and efficiency) of the turbo and super charger (not to forget the pulley size on the supercharger) Theoretically one could have a turbo at low rpms and supercharger at high rpms depending on the size of each. Maybe a video demonstrating how to pick the right size turbo or supercharger (or twincharger) depending on engine displacement would be a good additional video. Don't forget twin turbos and twin superchargers. (pulley sizing probably won't be a bad idea either) Thanks again.
this video helped me a lot with a presentation for school!
Amazing
Thank you very much! Very informative and the visuals really helped me understand
Thank you! I was hoping you'd make a video with both chargers!
Just came here 9 years late to understand my volvo T6 engine. Great video!
Lancia has a twin charged rally car with 800hp....Chris Harris from /Drive has a video on it. Not sure if you're a fan but MAN I love that channel. Also good explanation as well. I've been avoiding your videos because I'll spend entirely too much time watching them instead of going outside XD. Good job man!!! Again congrats on the STi!
Thanks, glad you enjoy the channel. Loving the STi!
Is it everything they say? Is it like sleeping with that one Movie star that you know you'll never be with? LOL! You know what I mean!
Also I run atmosphere => Turbo => Supercharger (SC14 roots type) => intercooler => TB => intake manifold, no bypass valve needed with a a/c clutch type s/c (just free spins)
These videos are really well done!!
I want one of these in my 5.4L Lincoln Navigator
great explanation... i understood it perfectly
Could you do twin turbos and a supercharger
Yes you can actually.
Loginwithlogan 3 i got a idea what about 8 twin turbos in 1 car that car will burn the tracks
Loginwithlogan 3 look at the ford gt that broke the land speed record. They have a twin turbo supercharged nitrous v8
Alex Clemente actually that is just TT. They took the stock supercharger off when they started the build. And I'm not too sure about the nitrous either
Yes but only with a v13 engine and water methanol in your morning coffee
This is the way VW 1.4 TSI was set up. Good for steady boost and inherently fail-safe, as the supercharger will limit the air flow according to engine RPM. Lancia S4 group B rally car did it the other way around. They had the turbo feeding the supercharger. Not as simple for a steady boost or as fail-safe, but allows really fast and high boost as the pressure ratios are multiplied.
As for the reduced efficiency during transition, it's true multiplying 70% efficiency of a turbo with 70% efficiency of a supercharger doesn't yield a nice number, BUT either compressor needs to do a lot less work which makes up for a lot in the overall energy consumption.
I have a Chrysler 300C with the 5.7 HEMI. Been toying with the idea of either a supercharger or turbocharger. Wondering what would be needed to build a twincharger instead...
Could you add a twin turbo with a supercharger? If so would it make none, some or a lot of power?
well that would depend mainly on setup if you had huge 57mm turbos it would make crazy power...all the supercharger is doing is making up for the turbo lag and giving you the low end grunt that turbos just cant do
It would make all the power... all of it.
Michael Budlong yup, stick with the single turbo because less parts means more reliable. 1 massive turbo can do as much as twin turbos because the supercharger removes the lag.
The Audi SQ7 TDI is a twin turbo with a supercharger
There is no point of using supercharger on twin turbo engine, the reason they make twin turbos is exactly the same as the supercharge a big turbo engine, and it is to eliminate the turbo lag! one turbo kicks in first and helps spin the othe turbo= elimination of big lag and get better throttle response! Hope that makes sense!
Thank you for explaining it that was awesome thank you thank you so much man what I learned when you explain I learn a lot once again thank you thank you
Either I'm missing something or your flow diagram has a problem, specifically the location of the bypass valve. In the diagram boosted charge from the supercharger connects to the atmosphere during mid RPM. Under such conditions some of the boosted charge will flow backward in the intake. In twincharging I thought it was easier to have the intake flow to the turbo first then to the supercharger. Air will flow through the turbo as it does below the boost threshold and compressed by the supercharger. Above the boost threshold boosted air will be delivered to the supercharger. If one wanted to bypass the supercharger at some point the bypass valve would be located between the turbo outlet and the supercharger inlet.
So Quick but so intuitive
I haven't heard of this on a Honda d-series engine, but definitely going to try it if I can get the money going. Expensive, but I'm a die hard d-series guy all day
Why can't the turbo and the supercharger work at the same time at high rpm
Because the supercharger starts to put too much strain on the engine crankshaft, as it tries to increase power, which decreases amount of exhaust gases, and decreases force of the turbo. And at the beggining they both are on
My guy wanna go to space 😅
Great series of vids thanks
Very well put my guy
Excellent video!
Can you do a video explaining Bypass Valves and how they are different from waste gates and Blow Off Valves?
There is an air Force mustang out there where they put LCD screens in itfor the windows I believe but it has a supercharger on each the valve cover 9r over and the turbo on each side so twin supercharged in twin turbo and they had some kind of hud technology to make it look like a jet the seats at in the center and it was able to be driven gas brake and steering all in a joystick like a fighter jet has it's awesome
This is amazing thanks for your hard work !
nicely explained
Awesome! you did one! thanks! I was the guy who bugged you about it :/ sorry about that, thanks again! awesome insight yet again!
Haha you're not the only one, glad you enjoyed it! If enough people prod me about a subject, I eventually give in. :)
Not only do you get the best of both worlds in terms of performance, but also sound
Good video, though the tech is a bit old. Rolls Royce were doing twin charged systems back during WWII. The BRM V16 1.5L also had a two stage supercharged induction system pushing 600+ hp, and the engine was also made by rolls incidentally. Changing one stage from a supercharger to adding a turbine is rather trivial really.
i like the juice n boost turbo combo. the blower is 24/7. the turbo can be mitigated by normal driving. so...when you feel the need...the need for speed...you can romp the throttle
..enjoy the turbo.if you cant tolerate the turbo lag for whatever reason ( supercar pulls up next to you at the light)... you can engage an electric opener for a nitrous system ( juice)... dial in 25/ 75...100 horsepower...whatever...by jetting...purge and arm all within a few seconds...now you have the off the line nitrous hit...and then the turbo will take over...and after you say a quick prayer...you can laugh at the Lamborghini in the rearview.
Do you have a video on compound charging (turbo feeding supercharger)?
How would you go about adding a Turbo charger to an already supercharged system
You definitely need to tune it if that's the case
From what I've read you mostly install the turbo (which can be obnoxiously large) in series, and then have the wastegate measure the boost after the supercharger ( that's pretty important as the boost of the turbo will be compounded with the blower's boost rather than just added to it)
To me, it is the perfect set-up for any internal combustion engine!
when I hear twincharging the first thing I think of is the Lancia Delta S4 groub B rally car. What a legend
Few questions. Why not, instead of a clutch to the supercharger, simply have an opening for air above the compressor screws? Turning the supercharger isn't what robs power, the act of compressing air does. By preventing the air from compressing, the only power draw is friction at the bearings and the rotating mass of its internals (which is minimal).
Bro a roots blower or a gmc supercharger (this is important) the blower is positive displacement not like a procharger or turbo ... The suoercharger made a 2 stroke diesel work and they had turbos for more power. The blower made the engine function.
Lancia Delta S4 rally car had this in 1986, 0-60 in 2,3/2.4 sec on gravel, up to 1000hp in test mode, between 550-750 hp in race mode (gravel, street)
Hey just wanted to ask, is there a way to create two air intake valves so one goes to the supercharger an the other to the turbocharger and are both compressed, then meet up in a large intake manifold that then takes this compressed air to the engine?
There are also twin charging setup where the charged air from the turbocharger goes into the supercharger and is compounded. Opposite of your diagram.
that actually taught me a lot.
im looking at vectra vxr for my next car, these come with a twin scroll turbo meaning boost comes in early and a remap will see 400lb ft of torque!, the downside is that the turbo runs out of steam VERY early and the power drops dramatically.
my idea was to pair a centrifugal supercharger (more rpm = more boost) with the turbo to give a huge power band. the thurbo gives low/mid rpm power and the supercharger gives great high rpm torque (and hence hp)
do you think thats feasable?
Another great explanation, but please, it's RPM, not RPM's.
Let's say your supercharger works as your intake... would you still need to use this clutch method or would it work like that at all, or is there a way around it? Is their other types of twincharger, if so how do they work? What's the major differences. I would love to see a newer more in depth video on twinchargers. Thanks +Engineering Explained , love your videos keep at it.
6yrs on no one has replied 😢
It can but you’re losing power and efficiency turning a supercharger that will do nothing more at higher rpms which turbos excel at.
@@13965082 Thank you, I really appreciate the response. In the time since I originally commented I've learned alot more about twin-charging and compound boost. Despite all the the complexities and disadvantages of the setup I enjoy the benefits of the the combination so I'm currently working on a custom Twin-charged setup utilizing dbw and multiple throttle bodies. Even after all this time I'm still playing with these setups💜.
Why not go with a y connector before the intercooler and have the intercooler fed separately from the supercharger and turbo charger. Have separate air filter for the Turbocharger and for the Supercharger. Avoid connecting the Turbocharger and Supercharger in the intake process as it will simplify the piping and also avoid the need of that bypass valve.
I was thinking of doing an L67 swap in a fierro and slapping a turbo on it......because yolo
Yolo flip.
YOFO
Engineering Explained Is it possible to use to a powerful motor on the intake turbine to eliminate the turbo lag?
I did it on my 86 Fiero GT with a L67. Check out my posts.
great video
I have always been fascinated by this but I wonder if the re-engagement or the clutch is going to unsettle the car when you lift off and the car is coasting. Does the clutch engage smoothly or is it more of an on/off switch. If you are decelerating and this things engages mid corner I imagine it would be very unpleasant situation
On off switch. I have a twincharged 1.4 tsi. It engages based on throttle pedal position, so you just learn it with time. You can feel when it kicks in: much more torque, acceleration and of course, noise!
And no, there's no issue with it being an on off switch.
I suppose you could use a viscous coupling for a smoother take up, I'm thinking of making my own system, I've got a 5 series bmw with engine problems and if that thing has to come out I'm getting frisky with it 😂
research the Eaton m90 used on l67 motors because my supercharger continues building boost as the the tach climbs
Could you have a twin turbo and a supercharger ? Would it work the same as a single turbo twin charger setup (as in the boost running thru the supercharger then thru both turbos) just wondering, I dont think it would be very useful but very cool if it's possible
Would it be possible to use a variable geometry turbo twin charged with a supercharger?
I have a question you could explain, more in depth. About turbo impeller size and spec vs the same in your supercharger and how to spec them per liter of engine.
The noise must be epic !
Thx, learned a lot
I like your videos! Keep going!
Always loved the concept of twincharging but I know none of the science behind this so help me if my reasoning is off
Is this setup the most effective use of the supercharger? Air from S/C hits the turbine of the T/C, then turns a hard right to get to the engine. Sounds very restrictive.
The perfect setup (in my mind) would be a "y" pipe right before the Throttle Body. And it has to be the lower case "y" with T/C connected to the straight side facing the TB and S/C connected to a Blow Off Valve, then to the branched side of the "y". There would be a flange where the "y" intersects which closes off the T/C side during S/C operation. Guess a BOV would be needed on the T/C side for good measure. As the amount of boost on the T/C side starts to meet the S/C or it meets a certain RPM (however it works), the flange begins to close off the S/C. The S/C should disengage exactly when (preferably right before) the flange completely closes expelling its leftover boost via BOV. Take your foot off the pedal, meet the same requirements but in reverse, and the flange swings back the other way.
Would this be a functional system?
Lancia Delta S4 popularized this setup.
CVT Supercharger? That would be awesome.
Great video! Thanks
This system is very much applicable into a Weber 40 carburated beetle... As long as the w40 is placed in the middle of the intake pipe, of course...
Would it be possible to run a kenne bell supercharger and twin turbos with that concept? If so how would you stop the supercharger from spinning and how would you keep the turbos going?
I understand what your saying that the super charger works at low rpm and the the turbocharger works at higher rpm so at what rpm range does it take over
Go crazy. AWD dually with a supercharged quad turbo nitros fed motor.