JM, I haven't played it, and I can't comment on the rules, but I get the general vibe, and I'm fairly certain that is his intent. He reviews so many games, and it doesn't suprise me that rules are missed or mis interpreted in the process. However, the mechanisms, theme, pros and cons (which some may not see as cons as this is subjective) are there for us to decide for ourselves. This is a very valuable service/resource for consumers. I was very curious as to the unique nature of this game. For me, this is a pass. Not because Tom says so, but because I like my games with more depth.
Played this game and I've never had an entire table of players simultaneously want to say how bad and boring this game was but didn't say anything to not offend the person who bought it. Then they said something and we all just sighed with relief that we could just DISH on the game. None of the mechanics feel like they mesh or have any reason to be there. Our game also was beat a boss then we win. It sounds like 'every game is unique' goes as far as do you kill a bat, rat, cat or gnat... and all of them are statistically the same.
Thanks for this info as I was thinking of buying it but really won't. It seems ridiculous to me what the rule says about not revealing this or that because you can't (WTF?)... it's a game and if something that is important is to clarify what the game is like, including the good and the bad!
@@ahdemrn oh man, I totally forgot about this game and comment, and got a pop up for your reply. 3 years later it was still disappointing and only 1 other game made me feel the same.
Interesting take. As someone who is newer to board games this is a fun and cool game. I gifted other family members the game so we can get the experience of other scenarios and whatnot. I think the trading aspect of unique games (with trustworthy people) is awesome.
Wow, a clean miss from Corey Koniczka--that's unusual. I wonder if this was a manufacturing technique in search of a game. Like, they worked out how to do the unique game thing with Keyforge and gave Koniczka a few months to whip up another game that uses that tech. Anyway, in addition to the 7th Continent vibe, it almost seems like they were going for a "tactical" Robinson Crusoe, maybe?
As if there was no dozens of other good games on the market... You're never out of good games. They're sitting on the shelf, waiting for you. Time is precious. Wasting it on crap, when you actually have a choice, seems... suboptimal.
@@SebastianZarzycki I kind of agree. However The reason we have so many games on our shelves is that they each offer something different. If you are in a mood for exploration and storytelling you wouldn't pull out Die Macher just because it sits on a shelf unplayed for a long time. The reason we compare 7th continent to Discover is because they scratch the same itch. And saying that Discover is bad and you should instead play 7th Continent is like saying your Cinquecento is bad you should get a Maybach. It's vastly superior. Yes it's true but only a handful of people have access to Maybachs. The rest of the common folk needs to stick to what they can actually put their hands (an wallets) on.
In the game I played the scenario ending trigger was something you needed to build as a team. And you also won that scenario as a team (although there was an option to leave someone behind if they wanted to). I think that is a really good way to end the scenario. To fight the same boss one by one doesn't.
Played this yesterday with some good friends and enjoyed it very much. Don't really care for Tom's reviews in general, so we're probably not in the same library, let alone on the same page. Your mileage may vary.
I agree the game is light, in fact I called it Robinson Crusoe lite but its a quick game that can give you some of the feeling of RC( I haven't played 7th continent). As to combat rolls there are so many ways to reroll and modify dice and even just avoid combats you know you can't win that I never found it a big problem. The end fights that Tom and a couple of others here are complaining about weren't in my copy, in mine the end fight was variable hitpoints for the big bad not everyone has to beat him/her/it, they were 2 per player and heck by the end of the first scenario I had the girl scout tricked out with enough equipment to not only survive the big bad but beat it without a great deal of difficulty. True the game is lucky but there are ways to mitigate that luck. My version was definitely coop not semi coop even if a character died the group as a whole won if the big bad was defeated. Having said all that I liked the game but didn't love it, I would give it a 6 maybe a 6.5 I never played the '5th' scenario since I did everything solo so I don't know how that would effect my game. I'll agree replay ability is limited and the story is thin but there is a story and many a game these days just paste on a theme and no one really cares.
100% agree with Tom. Everyone is crying about the Unique aspect. That's not the game's problem. If the game had a better and more engaging story I think it would be great (Even with the randomness and player elimination). I hope they give this another try. The idea is good, but the execution was lacking. I think the Unique aspect is the games strongest attribute. A discovery game that is a new experience each time you open a new box is a great idea.
I agree. I don't think the game is as big a fail as Tom makes it out to be in the review. He came down pretty hard on it even though I do agree with his critique. I think my expectations were inline with what Tom was expecting (more story and less randomness), but I still had fun playing the game. I think it's meant to be much lighter than a 7th Continent or Near And Far type experience, and it's price point is lower to match. So it's trying to fit a different bucket. Personally though I was hoping for something different I think, and it wasn't the unique game aspect that was the problem. They could have still made the games unique and added more story to the game for example. That's just more words on cards or just a dozen or so more cards in each box. I was expecting more out of those scenario cards in particular. IF they snazzed up that scenario deck I think it could have been a much more interesting game.
Sounds like it had some interesting ideas and a few decent mechanisms (the different wound dials seems like a neat idea) and that it would have needed a lot more design and to have been a fully cooperative game.
Its rare that I buy a game without watching one of your reviews... and in the case of this one,..... Wow! I had the EXACT same thing happen in the end of my 1st scenario (and I had the island terrain). We celebrated and then looked at the victory card only to find that now everyone has to keep fighting the monster till everyone beats him... sooooo dumb. And we even tried to play the whole thing co-op like the rules said was possible... but, man, ending a 4 player game where everyone worked as a team only to have the final sole survivor who helped out on everyone elses turn and pushed everyone else to victory lose... horrible. I actually went back and read the rules to make sure I didnt miss something! All these issues you had were the same ones I had. I played through the first 3 scenarios and was done... culled... I didn't even care enough to get to the 4th. It was so dull. The one complaint you had that i didnt was with the components- you had confusion on what terrain type it was... I remember the rules saying something like "whichever terrain type is most prominently pictured is the terrain type). Which, while that could lead to some confusion, I didn't have issue with it, and kind of welcomed the fact that terrain visually blended better so it didn't look as much like a hex-grid. Awesome job with the review. I couldn't agree more! So... lesson learned... Ill never buy another game without watching your review first!!!! ... unless it looks really really good. ;).
@@JM-db8ez Dude give up. You are going on comments after comments bashing Tom's review. It is "HIS" Opinion, just like you have your opinion. The OP said he played the game and felt the same thing. Let it go
@@JM-db8ez Dude, I was partly joking with that last sentence. The reality is, I watch a lot of reviews... Way more than I should. While there are some reviewers that may be more thorough, and a handful with better production quality, I've found Tom's reviews to be extremely helpful, and his opinions very well thought out. I played this game. I agree with him. There are some reviews I disagree with him on (you don't have to be a clone to agree most of the time), but I've literally played nearly 1000 different games based on his recommendation and even some against it, and I've found time and time again, that while he may get some quibbly rule wrong from time to time, he's usually spot on with the essence and feel of the games. In addition he's one of the most engaging and entertaining reviewers to watch. You made some blanket statements at the end of your response that are pretty judgemental about how he handled his approach to the game, I disagree. I played it. I watched his description. It's accurate... Certainly accurate enough to make this judgement on it. So, thanks for your trolling recommendation, but I'm aware of how youtube works and that there are other reviewers, but at the end of the day I'll take the dice tower and Tom's knowledge of games and the hobby over any of them.
16:03 - that is EXACTLY what they were trying to do. I preached that this entire concept was to solve the one flaw with legacy games, which was, its the same thing again, so why bother buying another copy. Each box is different so when you're done, buying another copy to play with another group keeps you enticed too.
SPOILERS(?) My first scenario's ending involved bringing enough resources to a camel to escape the map...no boss battle. The issue I had was that cards that involved modifying the values of cards you discover caused people to attempt to find things that did not exist in our deck...a lot.
Alternative system that would be possibly interesting is a core game that everyone purchases with Unique modules/scenarios you plug in. Basically instead of a 7th Continent-ish frame, start with a TIME Stories frame. Then the unique poetion people will want to buy many different versions of (assuming they are good) will be at a more accessible and tradeable level rather than a whole board game. I could see that working as a Unique board game. Or Unique expansions for something like Arkham Horror, which gives you a truly unexpected encounter to go through. ...that to me seems to make a lot more sense than this game's concept. I hope if this is a flop they don't throw out the Unique idea because I do think it can open up design space.
Don't often agree with Tom....but in this video .... it's like you read my mind. Everything said....exactly as I felt as I played the game.... dead on target.
Honestly, I feel the unique thing is fairly overblown. Obviously I can't say for certain, but I got the distinct impression that the goal in each terrain type was the same as each other. Cards have marginally different text, tiles may have slightly different layouts, and obviously your selection of characters differs, but I think the broad strokes are the same. Sadly. Especially sad when this is it's major selling point. This game is vapid. In fact, the uniqueness makes next to zero difference to things. Why should it matter what is or isn't in *other* copies of the game?!
I, also don't think unique is much of a deal for a board game. If I play Runebound, where you draw random cards, every session is 'unique' by definition and no reviewer bothered to spoil the ending. I bet, I even haven't seen all the cards that are in Rznebound, so how would I tell the difference to a 'true' unique game? vor 1 Sekunde
Great review! I can't wait to get my copy after seeing the playthrough at One Stop Co-op Shop! I own 7th Continent and positively love the game but hate the cult following around it. Discover, from what I've seen, hits that sweet spot of a simple 30 minute run around and grab resources to survive, make a few items to help you fight off wild animals and hope you're lucky enough to make it until the end. I love the randomness of it, as (unlike 7th Continent) you're not taking forever to set up and play a game that you then auto-lose. I hate games where losing the first time is a given so you are strung along another 2-3 times before you have a fair chance of winning. This game is an elegant winner in my book!
I actually do. I mean, it's in the spirit of discovery that the game itself aims to be, right? In all honesty, I do some due diligence when it comes to researching the games I want to buy and I knew this one was going to be controversial. And sure, it may not be a perfect game in that everyone gets out of it what they want, but for me it does hit those few perfect points: simplicity, a need to survive, a few random fights if you're desperate enough and a dash of tool building and treasure hunting. Yes, it's not a meaty tactical game, a hefty miniature combat system or an intricate story-driven mystery - but I have enough of those games. This has a light setup, easy to get into and friendly to expansions/replay with different copies feel to it.
It's a great idea and a good tool for game nights at flgs,every time you can open it and play a little different game and raffle it off after,but it's not a must own collection essential.
@@ShiYuMeng2 I could care less about the product model really, that's not what I like about the game. The unique thing is interesting, but I didn't get multiple copies to "complete" my collection or anything. Just wanted to see the variety. Love the design.
@@BradyJ.Sadler how many duplicate maps did you get and if you did get the same terrain did it come with the same scenarios on them? I actually really did enjoy this game once our group figured out the reveal rule if you have a certain item. That was the only thing that hung us up other than that I've played it with 2 group and everyone has enjoyed this.
Is there enough difference in this versus another game with a modular board that makes it worth purchasing over anything else? Other than changing land types and characters, which seems to be completely superficial, it looks like much of the difference in these games comes from the story. Mechanics aside, my concern would be if it is worth spending the money not knowing what you are going to get for the story. To me it would be like buying a pack of cards for a CCG. There could be something good in there or something mediocre. I think Keyforge is a better idea although I still wonder if playing the same deck over and over will get stale in the end, but at least the price point for a new deck of cards is less in the end then spending $40-50 on another copy of a game. Too much to invest when not knowing what will be inside.
I demoed this at Essen and had a lot of the same impressions than you have. It seemed so light and painfully slow for something to happen. And the semi-coop, ... yeah. You sort of have to work together but are not really incentivised to do so and one person can die and the others still have an hour or more to go. Was pretty disappointed, even though I wanted to like it.
It definitely has the same flaw as 504. Instead of making an infinite number of meh exploration games, why not make one truly great one like 7th Continent? What is even the point of them all being different, unless you happen to know lots of other players who want to trade copies? That doesn't seem to justify the system.
I wouldn’t let this game review sway your decision to much when I played I had a fantastic time I have three copies currently. In the first two boxes the only same thing I got was one character pack. Other then that I got island version A abs version B overall love this game tbh.
A lot of people share your opinion, but I think it's so much easier to stand on the sidelines and snipe at a game than to design a good one. I think Vasel himself made a Mafia-themed game a few years ago that turned out to be nothing special. Critics certainly have their place, but sometimes we give them too much power over our decisions.
Yeah seems like a typical Outing from FFG, except making the games "unique" is just a way to force people to buy different copies. Such a shame I'll never get to play 7th Continent. Thanks for being honest Tom, I can see this game really got under your skin
JonGetsGames had the exact same sentiments about the boss battle in his impressions video. It makes me wonder who thought some of the ideas in the game were good ideas. That's unfortunate :/
I feel another reason the Unique Game System doesn't work for this game is the price point. I think people will want to have more than 1 "experience" with the game and a higher price means you're not likely to buy another copy. I think only cheaper games will work well for this Unique Game System that FFG has created, because people will want to get multiple copies to see what new experience they could have. While $60 isn't a lot compared to some other big board games out there people buy, I know I wouldn't want to spend that twice, let alone multiple times, to see what new experience another copy of the game gives me. That's just my thoughts on the Unique Game System.
The idea for unique games is intriguing, but I think works best if each person is bringing their own unique piece, rather than a single unique game. The marvel is in the way the connect and compete, and your copy results in many different games as you interact with lots of other different copies. Furthermore, by its nature this type of procedurally generated game is going to skew heavily towards generic stories, so games that try to center their play around a story are going to suffer. That is likely why it really lends itself to card games like Key Forge, but Discovery falls so flat (NB: I haven't played either of them yet).
It sounds like a similar experience with procedurally generated video games. They can work well when three things are true: you see a lot of the algorithmically designed content, either by scale or if you restart - if you play through once and are done, procedural genration meant absolutely nothing to you, two: the procedural generation doesn't level out everything in the end to essentially be re-skins of other content procedurally generated in the game (one this impression is felt in a game, any sense of exploration or discovery is lost because none of that discovery is actually significant), and 3: the mechanics have to to be the driving force of the game rather than story. Successful procedurally generated video games do NOT procedurally generate the story if there is one, but allow it to interact with procedural elements, while being hand-crafted experiences. Procedural story elements end up being generic, repetitive, and frankly flat I have found. It sounds like Discovery failed on all three of these points. A full board game is a huge expense if we are supposed to get more than one. It sounds like Discovery's game-play loop was rather generic and didn't have much variety: Tom never mentioned puzzles so I suppose it is safe to say they werent in it, nor did it sound like scenarios varied much either inside them OR between scenarios - just much of the same sort of gameplay. And having story tied to procedural generation as well as being the core of the game opens up the likelihood it would be generic, uninspired, and unsurprising. This is why Keyforge works well for this: you can easily buy one deck, but even with that one purchase, you interact with other decks and exploration of new content has a very low barrier of entry: 10 bucks and you are in. Secondly, because the cards are designed to be open-ended AND to have interesting interactions with certain other cards, decks are more likely to have unique experiences - and reviews and play seems to indicate that. Bad Penny is a pretty throw-away card until it clicks with a card paired with it in some decks and it can be quitei nteresting and even powerful. Thirdly, while Keyforge has story (at least backstory) its main interest is mechanical and story elements are not intended to be really procedurally generated. Flavor text may deliver some of it, but only as it interacts with other story elements released outside the game. So random elements don't then disrupt the story or leave it generic to ensure Card C's story can interact with Card Q AND Card S depending on which the algorithm puts in. So I am not opposed to the idea of Unique Board Games, its just that a story-driven one was a bad place to start.
@@ShiYuMeng2 not sure what you are talking about gambling for... You get a full game in a pack no collecting needed unless you are going pro or something. Buy a pack and have fun or don't, the end.
I suspected when this game was first announced (and FFG published their first previews), that players would be drawn by the novelty of the Unique Games moniker rather than in-depth gameplay. That's not to say I thought it would be a bad game, but rather one that relied upon a gimmick for sales. Unfortunately, it definitely sounds like an unsatisfying experience and I'm glad I resisted the FOMO urge on this one. Might still try Keyforge. Thanks for the negative review. FFG is still a great company- not all of its titles are destined to be blockbusters.
From playing with my one deck I got a a prerelease last weekend, Keyforge is at least a competent game. Richard Garfield is leaving development of the meta to the community, so there's always the chance the deck you buy is sadly one of the worst, but if it's your first few games and you have the best deck, you'll probably lose anyway against anyone who has played a few more games. The handicapping and bidding systems are interesting but it's hard to predict if they will keep players from turning away from the game because they don't like their decks. Trading decks one for one should help though.
When you have player elimination games, you're suppose to have food, booze, TH-cam, video games off to the side room while your friends wait for the game to be over.
TBH, the "uniqueness" aspect was what immediately put me off. It just seemed like a gimmick to stop everyone from comparing how much this game lifts directly from 7th continent. And this is from someone who would actually welcome a good FFG rip-off of 7th Continent.
Have to say i am not surprised at all. The unique game thing is really just a gimmick and not even an appropriate one for this type of game. I cant see that it could ever really work in a story diven scenario as you are bound to end up with something super plain and nebulous just to enable everything to "kind of" slot together okay in a loose sense. I think keyforge stands a bit more of a chance as the core game could be good without the unique gimmick. I believe that ultimately a lot of the unique differences there will just come down to random name generator and swapping powers and art around. So the uniqueness will be pretty lame but at least the gimmick wont impede the game design as seems to be the case with discover lands unknown.
Ben Shaw If there's one type of board game that should have unique contents, it's a discovery game. Too bad then this is a weird semicooperative thing with bad combat and a tired story.
Yeah i can see what you are saying about the discovery aspect. I was thinking more from a story point of view though. It is hard to tell a decent story if everyone has got different bits. Maybe it is just a problem with the implementation rather than the concept though as i cant imagine the differences are going to be all that great between copies. It is not going to win me over though.
Disappointing. I was looking forward to this but youve saved me some money. I'll stick to Robinson Crusoe for which they've today released teasers for upcoming expansion Mystery Tales. Gona look up Seventh Continent now!
Hopefully a lesson learned for FFG that the quality and enjoyability of the game always has to come before novel gimmicks and cash grab tactics. I really like co-op adventure/survival games and was super intrigued by the look of this one... until I realized they were doing the "unique" thing with it. It's a cool, innovative and fitting system for a game like Keyforge, but doesn't make any sense for a game like this. Doesn't surprise me that it ended up feeling like a lame procedurally-generated video game. Looks like the they've now released a fully co-op version of the rules to address some of the rules-related criticisms, but I don't think it'll be enough to redeem this one.
Semi co-op, dice combat, player elimination, not re-playable, with loads of random events. At least it tried to be unique in some ways but hard pass for me.
Sucks that it's kind of a disposable game at a high price point there are better somewhat disposable one time play through games at that price point. It would be nice if it was at a lower cost less stuff or it was mixable with other copies in could be expanded upon
Lol. Player elimination is not always evil. If it helps push the tension and keep players thinking about staying alive as an element to managed in.... say.... a survival game... maybe it's not so bad.
@@mikolajwitkowski8093 Of course it has player elimination. Whether you "win" or not is not the issue. Sitting around with nothing to do for an hour because you got one-shot crit killed early in the game is still "eliminated,"( and no fun).
Ughh. Gloomhaven is such a bad game because of that. I sat for 45min because I played my cards inefficiently and was out of turns while the others playing trudged on. Made me hate the game.
@@aowoodworks2408 Am i missing something here? I'm not sure i've ever mentioned running out of cards/turns much before the end game. Just straight up dead from an unlucky 2x damage flip.
Yeah this one was bought relatively blind and on our first play.... really didn't provide us with an interesting experience other than light, storyline incoherent and frustrating experience. Wish we passed.
Player elimination only works for games that are relatively short(30 min or less) so agree with many it had no place here. Glad this game is a stinker(just from what I'm seeing before Tom chimes in)
![[TH] VALORANT Champions Seoul - Grand Final - EDG vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WvObMc9VelI/mqdefault.jpg)
This is why I watch reviews.
JM, I haven't played it, and I can't comment on the rules, but I get the general vibe, and I'm fairly certain that is his intent. He reviews so many games, and it doesn't suprise me that rules are missed or mis interpreted in the process. However, the mechanisms, theme, pros and cons (which some may not see as cons as this is subjective) are there for us to decide for ourselves. This is a very valuable service/resource for consumers. I was very curious as to the unique nature of this game. For me, this is a pass. Not because Tom says so, but because I like my games with more depth.
"Good, good! I can feel your anger. Now, finish this review, and your journey towards the Dark Side will be Complete!"
Love the direct and upfront review! Keep it up Tom! ;)
Played this game and I've never had an entire table of players simultaneously want to say how bad and boring this game was but didn't say anything to not offend the person who bought it. Then they said something and we all just sighed with relief that we could just DISH on the game. None of the mechanics feel like they mesh or have any reason to be there.
Our game also was beat a boss then we win. It sounds like 'every game is unique' goes as far as do you kill a bat, rat, cat or gnat... and all of them are statistically the same.
Lochen9 RWBYD20 h
Thanks for this info as I was thinking of buying it but really won't.
It seems ridiculous to me what the rule says about not revealing this or that because you can't (WTF?)... it's a game and if something that is important is to clarify what the game is like, including the good and the bad!
@@ahdemrn oh man, I totally forgot about this game and comment, and got a pop up for your reply. 3 years later it was still disappointing and only 1 other game made me feel the same.
@@lochen9rwbyd207 Once again man, thanks for the info 👍🏻
Thank you Tom and the Dice Tower for saving me money.
Interesting take. As someone who is newer to board games this is a fun and cool game. I gifted other family members the game so we can get the experience of other scenarios and whatnot. I think the trading aspect of unique games (with trustworthy people) is awesome.
Wow, a clean miss from Corey Koniczka--that's unusual. I wonder if this was a manufacturing technique in search of a game. Like, they worked out how to do the unique game thing with Keyforge and gave Koniczka a few months to whip up another game that uses that tech.
Anyway, in addition to the 7th Continent vibe, it almost seems like they were going for a "tactical" Robinson Crusoe, maybe?
Actually they worked on the idea of discover before Richard Garfield came to them with what became Keyforge. There is a designer diary about that
The problem is that this is now widely available. 7th continent is crazy expensive and hard to get. No retail hurts.
That's hardly a justification to play a terrible game.
@@SebastianZarzycki That's precisely the reason why one plays a shitty game. If im out of lunch meat, I make grilled cheese...
As if there was no dozens of other good games on the market... You're never out of good games. They're sitting on the shelf, waiting for you. Time is precious. Wasting it on crap, when you actually have a choice, seems... suboptimal.
7th Continent is the new Glory to Rome...
@@SebastianZarzycki I kind of agree. However The reason we have so many games on our shelves is that they each offer something different. If you are in a mood for exploration and storytelling you wouldn't pull out Die Macher just because it sits on a shelf unplayed for a long time. The reason we compare 7th continent to Discover is because they scratch the same itch. And saying that Discover is bad and you should instead play 7th Continent is like saying your Cinquecento is bad you should get a Maybach. It's vastly superior. Yes it's true but only a handful of people have access to Maybachs. The rest of the common folk needs to stick to what they can actually put their hands (an wallets) on.
In the game I played the scenario ending trigger was something you needed to build as a team. And you also won that scenario as a team (although there was an option to leave someone behind if they wanted to). I think that is a really good way to end the scenario. To fight the same boss one by one doesn't.
This is why you have to be careful of the 'Hype'. I saw this at Essen and ignored it. I am glad I was correct.
Same
Played this yesterday with some good friends and enjoyed it very much. Don't really care for Tom's reviews in general, so we're probably not in the same library, let alone on the same page. Your mileage may vary.
I agree the game is light, in fact I called it Robinson Crusoe lite but its a quick game that can give you some of the feeling of RC( I haven't played 7th continent). As to combat rolls there are so many ways to reroll and modify dice and even just avoid combats you know you can't win that I never found it a big problem. The end fights that Tom and a couple of others here are complaining about weren't in my copy, in mine the end fight was variable hitpoints for the big bad not everyone has to beat him/her/it, they were 2 per player and heck by the end of the first scenario I had the girl scout tricked out with enough equipment to not only survive the big bad but beat it without a great deal of difficulty. True the game is lucky but there are ways to mitigate that luck. My version was definitely coop not semi coop even if a character died the group as a whole won if the big bad was defeated. Having said all that I liked the game but didn't love it, I would give it a 6 maybe a 6.5 I never played the '5th' scenario since I did everything solo so I don't know how that would effect my game. I'll agree replay ability is limited and the story is thin but there is a story and many a game these days just paste on a theme and no one really cares.
100% agree with Tom. Everyone is crying about the Unique aspect. That's not the game's problem. If the game had a better and more engaging story I think it would be great (Even with the randomness and player elimination). I hope they give this another try. The idea is good, but the execution was lacking. I think the Unique aspect is the games strongest attribute. A discovery game that is a new experience each time you open a new box is a great idea.
I agree. I don't think the game is as big a fail as Tom makes it out to be in the review. He came down pretty hard on it even though I do agree with his critique. I think my expectations were inline with what Tom was expecting (more story and less randomness), but I still had fun playing the game. I think it's meant to be much lighter than a 7th Continent or Near And Far type experience, and it's price point is lower to match. So it's trying to fit a different bucket. Personally though I was hoping for something different I think, and it wasn't the unique game aspect that was the problem. They could have still made the games unique and added more story to the game for example. That's just more words on cards or just a dozen or so more cards in each box. I was expecting more out of those scenario cards in particular. IF they snazzed up that scenario deck I think it could have been a much more interesting game.
Not to spoil anything? I watched the video and I’m still not sure what this game is.
Sounds like it had some interesting ideas and a few decent mechanisms (the different wound dials seems like a neat idea) and that it would have needed a lot more design and to have been a fully cooperative game.
@@JM-db8ez Ok. The simple dice mechanism probably kills it for me though.
For 8 bucks at Ollie's it's a fantastic game that is same price as a combo meal. I may even try another one to get different terrain
When the game came out ahead of schedule before anyone had a chance to make a review of it, that was a red flag for me.
@@JM-db8ez A 6/10 is not decent in my opinion.
As was my review. :)
I got this game for $9. Might not be prefect but seems like it could be a decent time killer
Its rare that I buy a game without watching one of your reviews... and in the case of this one,..... Wow! I had the EXACT same thing happen in the end of my 1st scenario (and I had the island terrain). We celebrated and then looked at the victory card only to find that now everyone has to keep fighting the monster till everyone beats him... sooooo dumb. And we even tried to play the whole thing co-op like the rules said was possible... but, man, ending a 4 player game where everyone worked as a team only to have the final sole survivor who helped out on everyone elses turn and pushed everyone else to victory lose... horrible. I actually went back and read the rules to make sure I didnt miss something! All these issues you had were the same ones I had. I played through the first 3 scenarios and was done... culled... I didn't even care enough to get to the 4th. It was so dull. The one complaint you had that i didnt was with the components- you had confusion on what terrain type it was... I remember the rules saying something like "whichever terrain type is most prominently pictured is the terrain type). Which, while that could lead to some confusion, I didn't have issue with it, and kind of welcomed the fact that terrain visually blended better so it didn't look as much like a hex-grid. Awesome job with the review. I couldn't agree more! So... lesson learned... Ill never buy another game without watching your review first!!!! ... unless it looks really really good. ;).
@@JM-db8ez Dude give up. You are going on comments after comments bashing Tom's review. It is "HIS" Opinion, just like you have your opinion. The OP said he played the game and felt the same thing. Let it go
@@JM-db8ez Dude, I was partly joking with that last sentence. The reality is, I watch a lot of reviews... Way more than I should. While there are some reviewers that may be more thorough, and a handful with better production quality, I've found Tom's reviews to be extremely helpful, and his opinions very well thought out. I played this game. I agree with him. There are some reviews I disagree with him on (you don't have to be a clone to agree most of the time), but I've literally played nearly 1000 different games based on his recommendation and even some against it, and I've found time and time again, that while he may get some quibbly rule wrong from time to time, he's usually spot on with the essence and feel of the games. In addition he's one of the most engaging and entertaining reviewers to watch. You made some blanket statements at the end of your response that are pretty judgemental about how he handled his approach to the game, I disagree. I played it. I watched his description. It's accurate... Certainly accurate enough to make this judgement on it. So, thanks for your trolling recommendation, but I'm aware of how youtube works and that there are other reviewers, but at the end of the day I'll take the dice tower and Tom's knowledge of games and the hobby over any of them.
16:03 - that is EXACTLY what they were trying to do. I preached that this entire concept was to solve the one flaw with legacy games, which was, its the same thing again, so why bother buying another copy. Each box is different so when you're done, buying another copy to play with another group keeps you enticed too.
SPOILERS(?) My first scenario's ending involved bringing enough resources to a camel to escape the map...no boss battle. The issue I had was that cards that involved modifying the values of cards you discover caused people to attempt to find things that did not exist in our deck...a lot.
Since he hates Semi Co-op so much I'm very interested to hear his thoughts on Nemesis.
I bought this game for $4, even if it isn't that fun, it will still be worth the money
Alternative system that would be possibly interesting is a core game that everyone purchases with Unique modules/scenarios you plug in. Basically instead of a 7th Continent-ish frame, start with a TIME Stories frame. Then the unique poetion people will want to buy many different versions of (assuming they are good) will be at a more accessible and tradeable level rather than a whole board game. I could see that working as a Unique board game.
Or Unique expansions for something like Arkham Horror, which gives you a truly unexpected encounter to go through. ...that to me seems to make a lot more sense than this game's concept. I hope if this is a flop they don't throw out the Unique idea because I do think it can open up design space.
That's too bad, I had high hopes for this one especially with Corey Konieczka as the designer. I guess you can't hit a home run every time.
Has anyone played all three of this, 7th Continent, and Robinson Crusoe (which I love) and want to compare them all?
Don't often agree with Tom....but in this video .... it's like you read my mind. Everything said....exactly as I felt as I played the game.... dead on target.
Don't despair, Tom. Ukudora is coming.
Can you spoil a game that is different in every copy?
Honestly, I feel the unique thing is fairly overblown. Obviously I can't say for certain, but I got the distinct impression that the goal in each terrain type was the same as each other. Cards have marginally different text, tiles may have slightly different layouts, and obviously your selection of characters differs, but I think the broad strokes are the same.
Sadly. Especially sad when this is it's major selling point. This game is vapid. In fact, the uniqueness makes next to zero difference to things. Why should it matter what is or isn't in *other* copies of the game?!
I, also don't think unique is much of a deal for a board game. If I play Runebound, where you draw random cards, every session is 'unique' by definition and no reviewer bothered to spoil the ending. I bet, I even haven't seen all the cards that are in Rznebound, so how would I tell the difference to a 'true' unique game? vor 1 Sekunde
Thanks for the review. Glad I waited to see your review before purchasing
Great review! I can't wait to get my copy after seeing the playthrough at One Stop Co-op Shop! I own 7th Continent and positively love the game but hate the cult following around it. Discover, from what I've seen, hits that sweet spot of a simple 30 minute run around and grab resources to survive, make a few items to help you fight off wild animals and hope you're lucky enough to make it until the end. I love the randomness of it, as (unlike 7th Continent) you're not taking forever to set up and play a game that you then auto-lose. I hate games where losing the first time is a given so you are strung along another 2-3 times before you have a fair chance of winning. This game is an elegant winner in my book!
Do you enjoy gambling loot box and blind boxes? That is what you are doing when buying this product.
I actually do. I mean, it's in the spirit of discovery that the game itself aims to be, right? In all honesty, I do some due diligence when it comes to researching the games I want to buy and I knew this one was going to be controversial. And sure, it may not be a perfect game in that everyone gets out of it what they want, but for me it does hit those few perfect points: simplicity, a need to survive, a few random fights if you're desperate enough and a dash of tool building and treasure hunting. Yes, it's not a meaty tactical game, a hefty miniature combat system or an intricate story-driven mystery - but I have enough of those games. This has a light setup, easy to get into and friendly to expansions/replay with different copies feel to it.
@@arcubal Congrates, you are not a whale so not the target audience.
I can't believe people is giving it a 10 at boargamegeek....
Great suggestion! I hadn't even thought of that yet. I'll be right back...
It's a 6 now
It's a great idea and a good tool for game nights at flgs,every time you can open it and play a little different game and raffle it off after,but it's not a must own collection essential.
And to think that some ManVMeeple have bought 3+ copies of the game hoping it was good. People are gonna be mad at Corey K. for a while.
Easily one of my favorite games this year. Completely understand Tom’s preferences on this, but I found it fabulous and glad I picked up four copies 😃
I played it once and I was very relieved that I didn't spend any money on it I won't bother playing it again.
Did you enjoy gambling loot box blind boxes to get this product?
@@ShiYuMeng2 I could care less about the product model really, that's not what I like about the game. The unique thing is interesting, but I didn't get multiple copies to "complete" my collection or anything. Just wanted to see the variety. Love the design.
@@BradyJ.Sadler You aren't a whale that FFG is looking to hook.
@@BradyJ.Sadler how many duplicate maps did you get and if you did get the same terrain did it come with the same scenarios on them? I actually really did enjoy this game once our group figured out the reveal rule if you have a certain item. That was the only thing that hung us up other than that I've played it with 2 group and everyone has enjoyed this.
thanks tom now i know how this game works
Is there enough difference in this versus another game with a modular board that makes it worth purchasing over anything else? Other than changing land types and characters, which seems to be completely superficial, it looks like much of the difference in these games comes from the story. Mechanics aside, my concern would be if it is worth spending the money not knowing what you are going to get for the story. To me it would be like buying a pack of cards for a CCG. There could be something good in there or something mediocre. I think Keyforge is a better idea although I still wonder if playing the same deck over and over will get stale in the end, but at least the price point for a new deck of cards is less in the end then spending $40-50 on another copy of a game. Too much to invest when not knowing what will be inside.
I demoed this at Essen and had a lot of the same impressions than you have. It seemed so light and painfully slow for something to happen. And the semi-coop, ... yeah. You sort of have to work together but are not really incentivised to do so and one person can die and the others still have an hour or more to go. Was pretty disappointed, even though I wanted to like it.
Is it weird that this review reminds me of the game 504?
I thought the same thing when I played it. Random generation equals boring gameplay.
I dunno.. I had hopes for this one. The instant I heard what 504 was, I knew that it would suck.
It definitely has the same flaw as 504. Instead of making an infinite number of meh exploration games, why not make one truly great one like 7th Continent?
What is even the point of them all being different, unless you happen to know lots of other players who want to trade copies? That doesn't seem to justify the system.
Thanks for the heads-up.
I wouldn’t let this game review sway your decision to much when I played I had a fantastic time I have three copies currently. In the first two boxes the only same thing I got was one character pack. Other then that I got island version A abs version B overall love this game tbh.
Damn. i really liked how this looked. the tiles laid out, the artwork, it looked good. welp, will have to find something else.
Thanks for the review.
Exactly what I expected from the game.
Finally a negative review! Love it when you rip a game a new one, it’s hilarious 😆
A lot of people share your opinion, but I think it's so much easier to stand on the sidelines and snipe at a game than to design a good one. I think Vasel himself made a Mafia-themed game a few years ago that turned out to be nothing special. Critics certainly have their place, but sometimes we give them too much power over our decisions.
Tom got snowy and desert. So Antarctica or Siberia, sounds like a blast... Of cold then hot air.
Eldritch horror is also damn luck based
Yeah seems like a typical Outing from FFG, except making the games "unique" is just a way to force people to buy different copies. Such a shame I'll never get to play 7th Continent. Thanks for being honest Tom, I can see this game really got under your skin
So glad I watched this review. Taken off my BGG wishlist post-haste.
JonGetsGames had the exact same sentiments about the boss battle in his impressions video. It makes me wonder who thought some of the ideas in the game were good ideas. That's unfortunate :/
Played this game. Exactly what tom is saying
I absolutely HATE dice-based combat and RNG-fiestas and that is exactly what this game is unfortunely.
knew it was a blooper the Moment I saw the anouncements.
Just watching this it feels like they used three different artist. I’m a little bummed they didn’t use wooden Meeples either.
does any copy not have this boss (played 4 copies that had in all terrains)?
I think semi cooperative games can work. Archipelago is in my top 10, but it is honest about being semi cooperative from turn 1.
I feel another reason the Unique Game System doesn't work for this game is the price point. I think people will want to have more than 1 "experience" with the game and a higher price means you're not likely to buy another copy. I think only cheaper games will work well for this Unique Game System that FFG has created, because people will want to get multiple copies to see what new experience they could have. While $60 isn't a lot compared to some other big board games out there people buy, I know I wouldn't want to spend that twice, let alone multiple times, to see what new experience another copy of the game gives me. That's just my thoughts on the Unique Game System.
I saw a ton of copies of this game at my local Ollie's for like $4.99, ouch. Must not have sold very well.
The idea for unique games is intriguing, but I think works best if each person is bringing their own unique piece, rather than a single unique game. The marvel is in the way the connect and compete, and your copy results in many different games as you interact with lots of other different copies. Furthermore, by its nature this type of procedurally generated game is going to skew heavily towards generic stories, so games that try to center their play around a story are going to suffer. That is likely why it really lends itself to card games like Key Forge, but Discovery falls so flat (NB: I haven't played either of them yet).
Sounds like a game from decades ago.
It sounds like a similar experience with procedurally generated video games. They can work well when three things are true: you see a lot of the algorithmically designed content, either by scale or if you restart - if you play through once and are done, procedural genration meant absolutely nothing to you, two: the procedural generation doesn't level out everything in the end to essentially be re-skins of other content procedurally generated in the game (one this impression is felt in a game, any sense of exploration or discovery is lost because none of that discovery is actually significant), and 3: the mechanics have to to be the driving force of the game rather than story. Successful procedurally generated video games do NOT procedurally generate the story if there is one, but allow it to interact with procedural elements, while being hand-crafted experiences. Procedural story elements end up being generic, repetitive, and frankly flat I have found.
It sounds like Discovery failed on all three of these points. A full board game is a huge expense if we are supposed to get more than one. It sounds like Discovery's game-play loop was rather generic and didn't have much variety: Tom never mentioned puzzles so I suppose it is safe to say they werent in it, nor did it sound like scenarios varied much either inside them OR between scenarios - just much of the same sort of gameplay. And having story tied to procedural generation as well as being the core of the game opens up the likelihood it would be generic, uninspired, and unsurprising.
This is why Keyforge works well for this: you can easily buy one deck, but even with that one purchase, you interact with other decks and exploration of new content has a very low barrier of entry: 10 bucks and you are in. Secondly, because the cards are designed to be open-ended AND to have interesting interactions with certain other cards, decks are more likely to have unique experiences - and reviews and play seems to indicate that. Bad Penny is a pretty throw-away card until it clicks with a card paired with it in some decks and it can be quitei nteresting and even powerful. Thirdly, while Keyforge has story (at least backstory) its main interest is mechanical and story elements are not intended to be really procedurally generated. Flavor text may deliver some of it, but only as it interacts with other story elements released outside the game. So random elements don't then disrupt the story or leave it generic to ensure Card C's story can interact with Card Q AND Card S depending on which the algorithm puts in.
So I am not opposed to the idea of Unique Board Games, its just that a story-driven one was a bad place to start.
when you are done you can trade your copy to another person and play all over again
That is sad. The concept sounded so good.
I was excited when they announced this, but then I saw it and thought “7th Continent Lite.” 😔 In other news....Keyforge Pre-Launch weekend!!!!
Is 7th continent good?
thx for the review
Glad I picked Keyforge for the unique game to get. Also backed 7C... can't wait for that to come in
Keyforge is the worst blind box loot box from FFG. These games are gambling and should be heavily regulated and taxed like any other form of gambling.
@@ShiYuMeng2 not sure what you are talking about gambling for... You get a full game in a pack no collecting needed unless you are going pro or something. Buy a pack and have fun or don't, the end.
@@iveo83 They make their money off whales. People who have addiction probems. You aren't their target customer.
Rexler Brath LOL you don't know what gambling means.
@@Keithustus Apparently you do not know the definition of gambling. Loot boxes and blind boxes are considered a form of gambling.
Forbidden Dessert is good enough for me :-)
dromadrosis yummy, and then I die.
just picked up a copy for 10$. that seems like the price point for this game. cant imagine paying 30+$ for this.
I just found this game for $7 and thought I got a deal. Well I guess I’ll give it to someone for Christmas lol
Thank you for the review. I will have to re-think buying this game...
You just described MoM 2ed, practically.
Semi-Cooperative games rarely work. Cosmic Encounters is a semi-coop that is amazing... apparently this is no Cosmic Encounters.
I suspected when this game was first announced (and FFG published their first previews), that players would be drawn by the novelty of the Unique Games moniker rather than in-depth gameplay. That's not to say I thought it would be a bad game, but rather one that relied upon a gimmick for sales. Unfortunately, it definitely sounds like an unsatisfying experience and I'm glad I resisted the FOMO urge on this one. Might still try Keyforge. Thanks for the negative review. FFG is still a great company- not all of its titles are destined to be blockbusters.
Keyforge is still a giant loot box blind box and uses gambling to sell product.
From playing with my one deck I got a a prerelease last weekend, Keyforge is at least a competent game. Richard Garfield is leaving development of the meta to the community, so there's always the chance the deck you buy is sadly one of the worst, but if it's your first few games and you have the best deck, you'll probably lose anyway against anyone who has played a few more games. The handicapping and bidding systems are interesting but it's hard to predict if they will keep players from turning away from the game because they don't like their decks. Trading decks one for one should help though.
I'm sticking with robinson crusoe
When you have player elimination games, you're suppose to have food, booze, TH-cam, video games off to the side room while your friends wait for the game to be over.
TBH, the "uniqueness" aspect was what immediately put me off. It just seemed like a gimmick to stop everyone from comparing how much this game lifts directly from 7th continent.
And this is from someone who would actually welcome a good FFG rip-off of 7th Continent.
Great review . This game is terrible
will there be another printing of 7th continent?
The company that makes the game said no after the most recent reprinting.
@@coledelahooke809 Bummer, I wish he would have compared it to a better game that is widely available then.
There was a rumor they are working on a similar game but sci-fi.
NICK Van DAM Ya, I'd like someone who has played all three to compare this, 7C, and Robinson Crusoe, which I love.
I was so gutted I could not get it
😐
I was waiting for this game sooo much... what should I do know 😭
Have to say i am not surprised at all. The unique game thing is really just a gimmick and not even an appropriate one for this type of game. I cant see that it could ever really work in a story diven scenario as you are bound to end up with something super plain and nebulous just to enable everything to "kind of" slot together okay in a loose sense.
I think keyforge stands a bit more of a chance as the core game could be good without the unique gimmick. I believe that ultimately a lot of the unique differences there will just come down to random name generator and swapping powers and art around. So the uniqueness will be pretty lame but at least the gimmick wont impede the game design as seems to be the case with discover lands unknown.
Ben Shaw If there's one type of board game that should have unique contents, it's a discovery game. Too bad then this is a weird semicooperative thing with bad combat and a tired story.
Yeah i can see what you are saying about the discovery aspect. I was thinking more from a story point of view though. It is hard to tell a decent story if everyone has got different bits. Maybe it is just a problem with the implementation rather than the concept though as i cant imagine the differences are going to be all that great between copies. It is not going to win me over though.
I like the idea of the game but the game itself is pure garbage.
Disappointing. I was looking forward to this but youve saved me some money. I'll stick to Robinson Crusoe for which they've today released teasers for upcoming expansion Mystery Tales. Gona look up Seventh Continent now!
Hopefully a lesson learned for FFG that the quality and enjoyability of the game always has to come before novel gimmicks and cash grab tactics. I really like co-op adventure/survival games and was super intrigued by the look of this one... until I realized they were doing the "unique" thing with it. It's a cool, innovative and fitting system for a game like Keyforge, but doesn't make any sense for a game like this. Doesn't surprise me that it ended up feeling like a lame procedurally-generated video game. Looks like the they've now released a fully co-op version of the rules to address some of the rules-related criticisms, but I don't think it'll be enough to redeem this one.
Semi co-op, dice combat, player elimination, not re-playable, with loads of random events. At least it tried to be unique in some ways but hard pass for me.
So many sale offers for this game already, now I know the reason for sure...
@@JM-db8ez The description in the sales is very often "played one time". I saw a German review and it was kind of worse than Toms
@@DonF1818 do you have a link? german reviews are more outspoken and crisp on their opinions :-)
@@Falkdr Im Brettspieleblog reden sie hier zB davon th-cam.com/video/-vhK-mqvITE/w-d-xo.html und das klingt schon eher so nach Abturner
Sucks that it's kind of a disposable game at a high price point there are better somewhat disposable one time play through games at that price point. It would be nice if it was at a lower cost less stuff or it was mixable with other copies in could be expanded upon
scenario, scenario, scenario.... scenario :P
Lol. Player elimination is not always evil. If it helps push the tension and keep players thinking about staying alive as an element to managed in.... say.... a survival game... maybe it's not so bad.
I love how Tom wails on games for having player elimination but his favourite game is Gloomhaven...
@@mikolajwitkowski8093 Of course it has player elimination. Whether you "win" or not is not the issue. Sitting around with nothing to do for an hour because you got one-shot crit killed early in the game is still "eliminated,"( and no fun).
Ughh. Gloomhaven is such a bad game because of that. I sat for 45min because I played my cards inefficiently and was out of turns while the others playing trudged on. Made me hate the game.
@@aowoodworks2408 Am i missing something here? I'm not sure i've ever mentioned running out of cards/turns much before the end game. Just straight up dead from an unlucky 2x damage flip.
You can lose a card to negate damage in Gloomhaven. There is no real way to be one-shotted early.
Wow
I mean i must have played the wrong 7th continent there is almost no story in that either.
Yeah this one was bought relatively blind and on our first play.... really didn't provide us with an interesting experience other than light, storyline incoherent and frustrating experience. Wish we passed.
wow. rough. also, saved me $50 bucks!
Too bad... I was really hyped for this game...
This should be a 1 player game..🤔 then I might buy and play it.
FFG better keep this unique loot box cap out of My arkham files games
Sharp outfit Tom
Player elimination only works for games that are relatively short(30 min or less) so agree with many it had no place here. Glad this game is a stinker(just from what I'm seeing before Tom chimes in)
Nothing but bad things to say.... but still gets a 5 out of 10! Come, now... Sharpen those teeth!
Its a loot box blind box gambling. The worst of its kind.
No Man's Discover: Lands Unknown
Lol he calls it "Tintin art"