don’t treat my kids like that 🤨 r/AITA
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- You can check out today's video sponsor Pride Counseling and get 10% off your first month of therapy here: pridecounselin... x
wanna be a member? grab a backstage pass! www.youtube.co...
HEY LET'S BE INTERNET FRIENDS:
Instagram @sherbetlemon007
Twitter @sherbetlemon007
TikTok @sherbetlemon007
Twitch @shaabaandjamie
Our site: shaabaandjamie . c o m
Jamie's channel: @jammidodger
Our gaming channel: @shaabaandjamie
Be kind and have a great day (:
Wait... That couple has been together for more than 8 years?! So the kids were all under the age of 8 with the youngest being no more than 3 when this relationship started and they made no effort to integrate the children?
Yikes... That makes it so much worse. If the kids were all teenagers when the relationships started, then I could see saying we're not going to change anything for our kids because they're all a couple years away from moving out anyway, but they were little!! After 8 years the kids have already been affected by this immensely. There's no way they haven't.
Fr, even if you weren't going to have them be treated like your own, you should have them meet and talk about the situation multiple times so the kids won't blame eachother
This was my reaction too! At first glance, I understood it as they had been together for like 2, 3 years max. But 8 years? The kids were literally CHILDREN at that point, there is no excuse for this behaviour. There's no excuse to not integrate the families or, if that's not desired, make the boundaries very clear and don't get yourself into situations where this would happen. You can't after 8 years(!!) in a relationship, end up in a situation where you have to take in your partner for financial reasons and then act like this. That's not a relationship. I don't know what it is, but it's definitely not a loving relationship and it definitely won't last.
EDIT: To clarify I do agree that ESH here too. The fact that the kids were unknown to them, like Shaaba said, before they developed strong feelings is a massive red flag.
To be honest, “why are you so quiet?” is a rude question. If it were flipped onto an extrovert and someone asked: “why are you so loud?” Or “why do you talk so much?” It would be seen as rude but because social engagement is the norm, nobody would ask an extrovert those questions. OP definitely overreacted and should not have blown up at the guy. The guy could have also rephrased his question. If the aim is to include someone, ask them if they would like to join for lunch or if they’d like to talk. “Why are you so quiet?” Isn’t a conversation starter nor does it feel like you’re asking if something is wrong, it feels like you’re telling them being quiet is not normal. It alienates more than it shows concern.
Like honestly, what was he expecting op to answer?
Talking to someone who is obviously listening to music or reading a book makes you an asshole. That is the universal sign for please leave me alone.
Nobody does ask if someone's loud, but they certainly make rude remarks about it, so I see it as ESH cause neither are appropriate phrases.
I so agree with this. "Why are you so quiet" is extremely rude. And seriously, what "good" response could the guy have possibly expected? There isn't a way of answering that question. If you are an extrovert and are trying to make friends with an introvert or trying to check if someone is doing okay, or trying to include them, then maybe don't start with an extremely rude, exclusionary, and basically impossible to answer politely question.
I was going to say this. It was so rude of the coworker, and being an introvert isn't on the same level as being a racial minority or being trans, but introverts are often told that they are wrong for the way that they are (often implicitly) and honestly, if someone at work treated me this way, I would have trouble keeping my temper too.
1st one: as an autistic person who used to get asked "why are you so quiet?" All the time as a kid, i assure you the person asking was an asshole, they were not inviting a conversation they were pointing out how weird the persons is.
Yes, this exactly. "Why are you so quiet" is the same as going up to someone and saying "why are you so weird" or "why are you abnormal". It is such a rude question that isn't designed to have an open conversation, it is designed to make the person being questioned feel bad about themselves.
You are so right. I'll repeat the same thing here that I said in another comment. There is no version of "why are you the way that you are" that doesn't come across as critical.
As someone who genuinely doesn't like speaking, I agree, they were being an asshole, but I also agree with the everyone's an asshole in thus situation because it was a tad bit of an over reaction, but no way was the person asking not an asshole lol
can we get this pinned to the top of the damn comment section. this is really important and resonates far too strongly with me as someone who was persistently and constantly harassed like this.
"why are you so quiet" is not the innocent question people get away with framing it as. it's a statement that intends to make you uncomfortable.
As another autistic person... I disagree. I could totally see myself asking this to someone who I noticed was not participating because I am extremely blunt and straightforward, dancing around social cues is not my thing and if I'm concerned about someone being too quiet, Its not unlikely I would just ask. Remember that the autistic inability to read social cues goes both ways!
As a former hotel receptionist: the lobby bathroom was the only bathroom I had to use during my shift. I thought it was so rude for people to simply not use their private bathroom and make me deal with the smell, clogged toilets and feel grossed out when I was using the only bathroom I had at WORK. So annoying. Of course I worked at a very small hotel, but do consider who else has to use the bathroom at the lobby.
i don't agree with the first one. being a quiet kid and constantly getting asked why you're quiet is exhausting and just makes you feel bad about yourself. when i was a kid i was very shy and quiet and i constantly got asked why i was so quiet or told to speak up more and in the end it didn't make me want to speak to people more, it just made me feel like there was something wrong with me.
i get that op could maybe have responded more kindly, but i do also understand why they reacted the way they did.
exactly!! extroverts very rarely get why we get so offended by that question, and it's quite exhausting to see.
But understanding why someone reacts the way they did isn't the same as that reaction being acceptable.
This is going to make me sound as white as I am, but I was born in the states and moved to the UK when I was 4. I've always had an accent and it's always been something people have been surprised by. I used to get harassed about it a lot in elementary school, but I would never start yelling at someone because they brought up my accent, that's childish as hell. They are in control of their own actions, and I am by no means saying they have to like this person or throw a party for them but they don't have to be an asshole.
While you're valid in your feelings, getting told to speak up is less so about you "being" wrong and more about people hearing you. As someone with hearing loss, it can be quite frustrating when someone talks so quietly because it makes your job (which is already hard) much harder. That being said, there is nothing wrong with being quiet.
@@jellybeans3994 when i said “speak up” it wasn’t as much about speaking louder as about speaking in general. my bad - i’m not a native english speaker.
and i actually 100 percent do get you. i have a hearing loss and i know it can be super frustrating not to be able to hear what people are saying.
For real, I’m a quiet person and have been all my life. All my school report cards when I was younger had a note that I HAVE to fix my quietness, and my parents even put me on a pretty offensive course in order to make me less quiet 🫠 being told I’m too quiet still triggers that trauma of constantly being told I’m too quiet. It’s something I’ve had to work with my therapist on, trying to accept that being quiet doesn’t mean I’m inherently broken.
I disagree with your take on #1. Being quiet can absolutely be a marginalized characteristic. Whether it's being an introvert, autistic, or anything else, it's considered abnormal, especially in office culture. That's why OP's coworker thought it was okay to straight up ask "Why are you so quiet?" The assumption behind the question was that there must be some particular reason that OP was quiet *in general*. If they had considered for even a moment that this was just normal behavior for OP, they should have understood how silly the question was. The answer is obviously that it's just a part of their personality. That's why OP replied "Why are you so loud?" They were simply demonstrating the ridiculousness of the question by turning it back on their coworker. Was it rude? Maybe. But so was the coworker.
Tbh I think esh because the colleague (to me at least) clearly sounded like they were demanding a reason for op’s quietness rather than trying to be friendly
However I also think op overreacted, and like they said, potentially contributed to any stigma around ‘quiet’ people
I want you to consider that the person asking the question, "why are you so quiet?," could also be neurodivergent in some way. for example, not all autistic people are introverts. I think OP should learn to communicate their needs better because that's their responsiblity.
@@nergregga or have some level of deafness.
@@nergregga being neurodivergent isn’t an excuse to ask invasive or rude questions. I say that as a neurodivergent person. If i ask a question, i have to be okay with whatever answer i get, even if it’s rude. If i’m not up for any answer, then i don’t ask
@@vintereventyr_ I say this as the mother of a neurodivergent kid, it is an excuse. I mean, you can't blame my son for telling me hurtful things when he doesn't understand what that thing means to me.
It's my duty, as a mother, to tell him why that's hurtful in a way that he understands and, hopefully, he will avoid to make the same comment in the future.
ESH in the first story. OP overreacted but why are you so quiet is the rudest way addressing someone. Just ask them how they are and give up if they don't keep the conversation up.
Definitely are ruder ways to ask. But definitely are nicer ways to ask too :/
Agree
As someone who was pretty quiet throughout my life, people asking 'why are you so quiet' is very rude. The question implies that I should have a reason or there is something wrong with me. People don't go up to loud people and ask them 'why are you so loud'. People have it bad enough when they are more quiet/shy/socially awkward for people to not constantly having to bring it up.
Agree. Don’t agree with Shaaba on this one.
@@CozyLili i have something as me stop talking so loud and then ask why talk so loud and i told them i don't think i was.
I would disagree with the first, and vote ESH.
Level of socialization may not sound personal, but for me, I have autism. Being asked why I'm quiet is quite distressing, and I do think it cam be personal, especially with the way its phrased. Asking "hey, you're quiet, are you okay?" Is very different than saying "hey man why are you always so quiet, you never speak!". In the latter, it's a normal character trait that they're asking about seemingly at random, not a change in routine that has caused concern.
Yes! And, if you are autistic or have another neurodiversity that is part of why you are quiet, they are essentially demanding you out yourself to them. There isn't a "good" reply to it, either. Like, "Why are you so quiet?" is a confrontational question that frankly, I will likely react rudely to- because asking it was already rude, and I feel no obligation to be polite to people who go out of their way to be rude to me.
My parents are divorced. I have a stepmum and a stepdad. My stepmum never wanted children. My stepmum does not like children. I met my stepmum when I was 5 years old and my brother was 8. I didn’t know that my stepmum didn’t like kids until a couple years ago. She always treated us with love and respect, me in particular because I’ve never been that independent, I struggle to take care of myself (in terms of hydrating and socialising and whatnot), so she’d remind me to have a drink, she still does, I have smaller drinking glasses now because she bought some, so my brain wouldn’t process a large drink as too much. My stepmum KNEW my dad had kids, and despite not liking children, continued to be in a relationship and now they’re married and I have an amazing, respectful and funny stepmum. This is what a family with stepparents should be like, and I don’t even live with my dad full-time by the way, I see him every other weekend. If you decide to enter a relationship with someone with children, you now have a role to be respectful to those children as if they were your own, whether you like children or wanted more or not doesn’t matter at that point
Aaaw your step mum seems so lovely🥺❤️
And i'm happy you had a good relationship with her because she was respectful☺️
Your stepmum is doing it right! By being with your dad, she also has an important role with his children. I’m so glad you never knew she “didn’t like kids” because she never treated you as if that were the case. 🧡
that is so awesome and i'm glad your stepmom is so great! I agree that OP really shouldn't have stayed in the relationship but i think the mom is also to blame here. she's known for 8 years that OP wants nothing to do with her kids and she should have left to protect them
It is not about children but my partner’s mother has health issues so he has always needs to make time for her. It got to the point that my mother in law could not love alone anymore, so we made arrangements that she could live with us, even moving to a new city to make it happen. Of course I would prefer not to live with my mother in law, have to take care of her, etc (it also put a lot of strain on our relationship) but she is my partner’s mother and he is an only child, so she has nobody else. It just is what it is, whether it is my dream situation or not, and was never an option in my mind to just refuse to support her.
I have to disagree on that first one. It kind of was an accusation from the coworker. It could have been phrased differently to express concern or care like "is everything OK? You seem really quiet" or "hey, would you like to join us?" both of which could be politely declined with maybe a short "I prefer to keep to myself thanks"
But no it was "why you so quiet?" implying that being quiet is an abnormal quality and constantly talking and making noise is some sort of virtue.
This.
Also, being rude about that question is the ONLY way I've found where they don't continue prodding and/or trying to engage a conversation. Then they take it personally when you don't cooperate. Being rude they tend not to take personally and just assume you're in a bad mood.
Basically, being quiet and keeping to yourself is a crime to these people unless you're in a bad mood.
yes, absolutely!!
Yes, i agree. It implies there should be something wrong with you if you are a quiet person.
I agree with you. I have noticed that Shaaba has a tendency to assume the best of everyone, even ones that seem to be bad actors to others who have dealt with it before. She assumed it was meant as a way to reach out and integrate OP into the work group, when most anyone who has been that quiet person knows that that specific question isn't usually used for that purpose. It's usually used to be a bully/abusive.
10000% I don't think "Why are you so quiet?" is an objectively non-invasive question at all. It's one thing to say that to someone who usually isn't quiet to check in and see if they're okay, but to just demand an explanation out of nowhere is inappropriate.
I don't agree about the first one. “Why are you so quiet?" Is a rude question. It is not a conversation starter. What are you supposed to say to that? they're essentially calling you out by asking why you're “different". It's not kind. Every single time I've been asked this it's made me uncomfortable and the people asking were clearly making fun of me. If it's wrong for him to retort “Why are you so loud?” then it's wrong to ask “Why are you quiet?”
I think it was more the tone and intention more than the question itself. I feel like OP reasoned with themself out loud why it was wrong. They assumed it was an attack so they lashed out. And then walked that back and thought of alternative reasons why they could be asked that, and reasoned why the question is so annoying to them, it wasn't the person's fault that it annoys them.
It's true that we don't know what the person sounded like, and I can't say anything about your experience. But Im the quiet one in public, in my experience most people just ask.
What do you say to that? The truth? I don't have nothing to say. I don't feel like it. I'm just naturally quiet. W.e.
Alternatively asking "why are you so loud?" Is a question that can be offensive or normal.
The person from OP's story didn't seem offended and seemed to be responding to someone who was irate, but didn't seem to be irate at the question, but responded to the tone.
@@SLYKM I wasn't really talking about Shaaba saying OP was the asshole in this instance (because yeah, even though he thought he was defending himself, there were better ways to respond tone wise), moreso that Shaaba's line of thought, that asking why someone is quiet is simply “innocent curiosity" or a “conversation starter" is not the right take, and you Should Not do that to people, and she shouldn't condone that behaviour by dismissing it as someone “reaching out" to you.
Just because people have used that to bully you doesnt mean it is inherently unkind. Loud has a much more negative connotation than quiet, so no its not the same especially if OP retorted in an aggressive tone. Someone asking you an annoying questions without realizing that they are making you uncomfortable is an honest mistake, the response should be something level headed. I am an extreme introvert and people ask me this too, and I have clinical anxiety as well to add onto that, but despite how uncomfortable and annoying it is for me I can recognize that the other person probably means no harm and so I dont take out my anger on them. OP was TA, their response could have been more polite like "Thats just how I am, I prefer to spend my time alone"
@@tangyjenna I do understand what you mean better, thank you. I think what I said still applies, tho. If "why are you so loud," and "why are you so quiet," are both rude or both fine, then I think they are both benign until a person shows themself to fake/rude/dismissive ECT.
If it was a rude conversation starter, then how could OP be wrong for lashing out/defending themself? They didn't attack the person they just returned the favor, or so they thought. I think that would be perfectly fine if that was the case. Tho I think OP was wrong bc of the assumption, IF it was indeed a jab, then I would think OP was fine for throwing it back at them.
I do think there are better ways to talk to a quiet person, but I also don't think it is inherently rude. Social people are loud more often, that means they can be awkward more often, that's how I see it.
@@botanicalitus4194 I feel like it is inherently unkind, despite intentions. There are better ways to ask about someone if you truly are concerned. It is an accusatory question. “Why are you the way that you are" is essentially what they are asking you. And yes you probably shouldn't respond rudely, but more importantly, don't ask questions if you don't want an answer you don't like. I don't have to justify who I am to anyone. Social awkwardness is not an excuse for rude behaviour. But this is only my opinion. If someone asked me this now my go to response will be “i'll forgive you for asking if you forgive me for not answering.” found that gem in the Reddit post thread. I think it's a good mix of standing up for yourself while not being rude to the person asking who may have good intentions, but should learn to not ask people that.
OP, if you’re reading this, feel free to borrow my go to response to the infuriating “why are you so quiet?”
Just smile at them in the brightest and friendliest way possible, and say, “I find it keeps people from asking me rude, intrusive, and inane questions.”
Then pause, shrug, look back down at your book and say, “Usually, anyway.”
😁🤣
Another good one is to have a super long, dry, and boring speech on nature vs. nurture memorized and just launch into it and see how long it takes them to stop you. 😂
The last one makes me so angry. Few things in the world upset me as much as parents being cavalier about how their behavior affects their kids. What the hell are these people thinking?! Such assholes!
"Why are you so quiet?" Is a bit of a rude question, even if the person asking didn't mean it in that way. Despite that OP was being rude as well. Maybe if the coworker was just checking on OP he should've phased the question differently. I'm a quiet person myself and never know how to answer that if people ask.
It is very rude. I hate it so much so I think it is perfectly ok to snap back. I'm actually quite shocked she said in the video it is ok to ask that. It totally isn't ok
@@Unchained_Alice agree.
@@Unchained_Alice i agree with you on that.
@@Unchained_Alice It's also the only way to respond that doesn't lead to them being pushy and trying to force you to interact with them.
If OP hadn't been rude that coworker would have continued pushing and ruined their entire lunch break. Then they would have taken it as a personal insult.
Been there hundreds of times, being rude is the only response people accept.
Also, Shaba's explanation is 100% wrong.
It IS invasive
It IS about a marginalized characteristic
It DOES come from a place of entitlement.
@@jakeand9020 I came here to make sure someone said this!
She came so close.. but just didn't quite get there. Maybe it's her own bubbly nature that it's just a difficult thing for her to wrap her head around? But like.. I get paid to work for 8 hours.. NOT to gossip or learn about the extended family and lives of the 15-50 people in my office/department.
It is a work culture that has negatively impacted introverts, and neurodivergent people from it's inception and frankly bravo to op for putting his foot down.
We have someone in our office who is very quiet, they won’t talk unless you talk to them. I’ve figured out what to talk about and if they give me a short answer I know they don’t want to talk that day. One of the other people in the office told me one day that they were going to ask that person why they had an issue with them because they never talk. I told them “don’t ask that, they are just quiet, there is nothing against you specifically”. I don’t know if I just picked up on it not being personal because I’m similar, I don’t say more than I need to and I don’t like small talk.
I myself am an ambivert, with me being more extroverted online, but introverted irl. Recently, I graduated high school, and I had the issue of people trying to force me into conversations I wanted nothing to do with. It was obvious that they were just trying to include me, but they wouldn't listen when I tried to tell them I didn't want to be included. I also have what people call a resting b*tch face, so people would try to see "what was wrong" when in fact I was perfectly content and in many cases happy.
Thanks for that, on behalf of your coworker. It really does suck when you don't talk much and other people take that as an offense. A person who doesn't talk could be in a situation where they have to defend themselves bc the other person has made an assumption.
@@CodaBlairLucarioEmperor I had similar issues. I’ve had people tell me years after graduation they thought I was a b*tch because I never went out of my way to talk to them so they never tried to be friends. I’m also perfectly happy with friends on a game night just observing and not participating (because I can’t sit still and keep getting up and wanting to walk around) so they now don’t invite me because they think I’m unhappy, I’m perfectly happy just watching everyone else play the game.
@@SLYKM I knew the person was not going to want to be asked. I also knew the person asking is very abrasive and it would come across completely wrong. I guess the people in the office in that AITA scenario don’t talk that much amongst themselves either or someone would’ve just said “no I’ve asked them, they just don’t talk much” that would’ve avoided the whole situation
@@len_pheonix141 Hey! Just reading your comment, and as a fellow quiet person but also a board-game queen I highly suggest telling your friends exactly what you said here. Part of the fun at our family board game parties (infrequent now, but still fun) was having non-players wander in, make jokes, make comments, make suggestions, and giggle at situations. It makes things more fun! And sorry, I know I'm kind of an idealist, but I hope it works out for you and you all get to have fun together again. 🙂
In the first story NTA for me. I was asked that question SO MANY TIMES in high-school, along with “are you sad? Are you mad? Are you angry? Did something happen???” that it was borderline harassment. And I think that some of those people were trying to bully me. If someone asked me that again, I’ll lose it even if it’s not their intention to be rude, you don’t approach someone and ask THAT of all things, specially when it’s well known that it’s used to harass introverts because society doesn’t like how we are. You ask “hey, how’s everything going?” or something along the lines, not something that can be taken in a bad way
Also, Shaaba says that is not invasive, but you don’t get to decide what’s invasive or not for other people, we all have different considerations about our privacy.
Exactly!
I think it's an ESH because, as OP admitted, he was taking out a lot of frustration on that guy than was warranted. But I was really surprised that Shaaba called it an "objectively non-invasive question" as it could have all sorts of very personal answers that no one is entitled to.
@@captainblacksand8484 I think Shabaa is an extrovert and dosen't really understand why someone would find the intrusion problomatic.
yep! to me it's pretty clear he wasn't trying to be nice/make a friend he wanted to know why OP was so "weird" and if he was just trying to be nice thats probably the dumbest way to start a conversation
As an extreme introvert myself. I feel bad labeling the first person as TA because I understand where they're coming from. Getting asked that question constantly is extremely annoying and it makes me so mad. It feels like people are implying that I have an obligation to speak to them or if I don't im weird or something. It's not that I despise talking to people, I just avoid conversation as much as I can because I struggle to talk to people and I overthink everything I say. I'm very insecure about my voice and my lack of communication skills and that question just makes me feel worse about it, that's why I think it's understandable for OP to have gotten a little mad. They didn't have to handle the situation in that way but I see why it happened and I empathize with them.
I also want to add that it's extremely hard for introverts to express their feelings and it's not going to be as simply as "Hay I don't want to talk right now" but yeah that's my view on it
@@anunwantedsoul3672 I ask this as someone who has no problem speaking with total strangers, so I really come from a different place.
Wouldn't it be easier to answer "I'm an introvert"?
Nowadays people know what that means and I'm sure I wouldn't ask any further questions.
@@lapattiMaybe it's different now. However I would never say 'oh I'm just introverted' or 'I just don't feel like talking right now' or other similar things. Since past experiences have taught me that it doesn't shut down the conversation like I hope.
Instead it seems to invite people to try and 'fix' me, or 'cheer me up'. Which is why I despise the question 'why are you quiet ?'.
It might not be said in a rude manner or tone. But it is like a punch to the gut and a reminder that me being quiet isn't okay or is creepy in some way.
I can be talkative if I want to, I just have no interest in what I consider pointless small talk that isn't getting us anywhere.
I know plenty others enjoy it, that or they are fine with faking enjoying it.
I just can't be bothered with either.
To me 'why are you quiet ?' Is as repulsive a question as 'why don't you smile more ?' Or 'smile'. It might be well meant. But to me it's a critisim of me as a person, and a reminder that I'm not acceptable as I am. That I have to put on a show and be someone I'm not.
Sorry for the long rant. It's just after 30+ years of trying to answer 'why are you quiet' politely. Without inviting a conversation about how no I'm not sad, angry or feeling left out. No I'm not bored either, no I don't have a bad day. no I don't feel like trying to talk more. No it's not because of my period. And please don't tell me to try and have fun, since I had fun until I had to talk to you etc. Etc. I have learned cutting the conversation short can't be done. So being rude is the only way, since at least it makes people back off and spares me having to have a longer conversation justifying me being quiet.
@@VieseDoe the person in the story was at work. If I had a colleague that never says a word I would ask too.
It's not because I want to make small talk, but because I would want know if the colleague has a problem with me or others.
And if they said that's just because they're introverted, that would shut me up. But maybe it's because my son (20) is in the spectrum so I know that, in his case, quiet doesn't mean anything.
But saying "I don't feel like talking right now" is a different thing. I wouldn't push it in the moment, but if I had a friend who doesn't have a problem talking to me and all of a sudden they "don't feel like talking right now" and this thing goes on for a long period of time, I would eventually ask again.
Not feeling like talking in the moment and being introverted are two different things, I see why someone would want to ask more questions in the first case
@lapatti Excuse me if this sounds rude, but it's no one's obligation to speak to you. Someone doesn't need a reason to not talk to you. It just kind of comes off as "Why wouldn't you want to talk to me?" Which I find a bit self-centered. Y'know? I understand if it's a friend and they just suddenly stopped being active in conversation with you, then yeah concern is valid, but that's not at all what we're talking about.
Plus+
The question "Why are you so quiet" also makes it extremely uncomfortable for introverted people who don't like to talk about themselves and struggle with communication. It strikes up unwanted conversation, lots of uncomfortable eye contact especially for those on the spectrum such as myself and once again, it implies that being quiet is weird. Personally, from the perspective of someone who's on the spectrum. If someone I'm not close with doesn't want to speak with me then I won't push it.
I'm with OP on the bathroom issue. I'm not hiking down to the lobby's bathroom (that's getting used way more than the room's bathroom) to 💩! Especially if I'm paying for half the cost.
The guy in the last story was an idiot. How he thought that was going to work out for everyone is beyond naive. He should have ended the relationship as soon as he found out she had three kids. She was an assh*le too, because she didn't mention up front and center she had three kids. Maybe she thought that if he loved her before he found out it would work out okay. Looks like they were both wrong. Sad the kids have to suffer because the adults couldn't be more honest and end things before it got this far.
Totally agree with the first issue😂
And the second as well, poor kids, they need mature parents, but love can be complicated, but as a partent you jave to sacrifise yourself sometimes to make shure your kid will jave a good life🥺
I don't understand how it's not a deal breaker for him the fact that she didn't tell him that she has 3 kids.
He developed feelings for her, but the fact that she hasn't been completely open about her situation is a big red flag imo
@@lapatti especially if he was up front about not wanting any children over and above his own daughter. It's amazing to me how people can be so dishonest and then have the nerve to be surprised when it bites them in the butt.
Saw a Reddit the other day where the guy wanted more children, but his wife didn't want any more than the two they had. He told her that he had a vasectomy (he didn't) took a week off work (to recover) and then proceeded to have unprotected sex with his wife. Surprise! She got pregnant and he tried to play it off as the vasectomy failed. It was a miracle and they should be happy. Unfortunately for him, she found out the truth when she went to the hospital he was supposed to have had the surgery at to sue them. He asked Reddit if he was wrong! Don't know how he thought that was going to go well. I don't know how it turned out, but if I were her I'd divorce him.
My relationship with my husband included my child from the beginning. He fell in love with US. He was the best thing that happened to us.
I'm confused about your answer to the first one... you compare it with other situations and say that it's objectively reasonable to ask someone if they're ok since they don't talk much (I'm paraphrasing a bit here), but that wasn't the question... the question was "why are you so quiet?" and that is not an objectively reasonable way to ask anyone anything! I agree that taking your anger out on someone is not the right way to react, but technically there is no difference between "why do you smell like that?", "why are you so fat?" "why are you so quiet?" "why are you so loud?" - I do feel it's completely okay to reach out to someone quiet... but not like that!
He's absolutely entitled to not want a big family. But he now HAS a bigger family. If he doesn't want the kids then he doesn't get to hang out and play house with Mum. What a creep, and Mum should have dumped him when she realised that he meant what he said in stead of setting her kids up for absolute disaster. That house must be toxic feeling.
No Mom should have *believed* him in the first place and they both should have been grown up enough to realize that it can't work
The mom is the biggest asshole here.
How do you start a serious relationship with someone without even telling them that you have 3 kids?!!
@@bacul165 absolutely. Call it quits and give yourselves a chance to meet someone you want to be with 100%.
I don’t think he considers it his family through. OP made it clear the only reason the lady and her 3 children moved in is because they would otherwise be homeless. I guess fair enough that he gave them a place to live in an emergency, and he probably felt a bit obliged to do so, but it might never have been his plan to move in together, form a blended family, or have to take on any parenting and care role for her 3 children.
No, Mom shouldn't have hidden the fact that she had kids until after they already had feelings for each other. She started this problem.
They were young too, between three and eight years old. I don't understand how you even hide that.
Personally for the first one I don't agree that the OP is the AH in that situation. The question "why are you so quiet" is rude at least from my perspective but even if it isnt why would "why are you so loud" be rude seeing that it is the reverse. Also when someone does ask why someone is quiet what answer would they be expecting from them? It isn't a conversation starter as where would the convo go after that. Anyway love the vid Shaaba and you! :)
I can relate to story #1. I’ve stopped socializing with coworkers years ago because I’ve been burned so many times in the past that I just gave up making friends at work and now keep to myself. Then get asked why I’m so quiet or look upset. I really wish people would just leave me be and focus on more important things like maybe…work?
I don't know if it's a cultural thing (although I've been in the UK for a while and I've never experienced anything like that yet lol) but I was so surprised by your comment on the first one 😮 I feel literally the opposite way, meaning I can see the colleague had good intentions but their delivery was so rude. I don't think there was anything wrong with the colleague wanting to be friendly, their heart was in the right place but the way they approached OP was soooo wrong. If anything, I'd say they might be extroverted but should revise their social skills. To me it's obvious that a "normal" approach would be something like "hey, we haven't spoken much even if we work in the same place, I just wanted to say hi" or just any other topic to initiate conversation. You don't approach someone and just drop random blunt statements about their personality (or their appearance). Imagine if someone was going through some horrible times, was sick or had a loved one really sick. It works just the same as a comment on someone's weight, if you know what I mean. I am mildly introverted and normally social at my workplace, but if someone said something like that to me they'd get a piece of my mind for sure 😐
So I’m British and imo ESH
I think the question was quite blunt and the way op reported it , it didn’t sound overly friendly but more like the colleague was demanding a reason for op’s quietness. I also think op’s response an over reaction tbh.
I don’t think it’s a cultural difference maybe just difference of opinion x
Also a Brit, and I would have gone with ESH too. The coworker (and people in general) need to be more accepting of difference, and not approach others from the assumption that "not the norm" = bad or wrong. I found the question to be phrased in a way that was definitely making that assumption, and although the intent may not have been malicious, the result kind of is. Likewise, although I sympathise with OP for being sick of that questioning, they could have handled the situation differently as well. If I was OP I'd offer an apology, but also use it as an opportunity to explain to the colleague why that question can cause issues, so that hopefully everyone can learn from it.
For the first story: I was always the quiet kid in middle school. I think it was mostly because of masking my undiagnosed neurodivergence and being afraid of getting yelled at for speaking out of turn. People CONSTANTLY said "yOU'rE So quIeT," and in 8th grade, everyone got a "superlative" (something in American high schools where you vote on stuff like "most likely to become president" or "biggest class clown", not sure about any other countries), and I got "most quiet". I refused and they gave me a different superlative, but still. To this day, I HATE when someone says I'm so quiet, like what do you want from me????? All this is to say that OP is completely entitled to be angry. Sure, he could have handled it better, but the other guy shouldn't have said "you're so quiet" either. I don't think that guy thought he was doing anything wrong, so OP should definitely apologize and explain what happened.
If you're wondering what to say instead of "you're so quiet" or "are you ok?" to include someone who isn't very talkative, I think the best way is to just start making conversation and see if they seem interested.
To me Laurel sucks the most because she didn't bring up her kids and then continued with him knowing he was against more kids. I hope they now realise that living together is not a good long term solution. Also the kids shouldn't suffer for the grownups bad decision making. The adults should sleep in the living room and give their bedroom to the two boys, which would leave the guest room to the 16 year old.
As soon as she put them in a constant state of being with the guy she's dating who is actively hostile to them, she took on a lot of the blame. Like it's fine to date someone for 8 years or what have you and have your kids in your own home and give them a full life. But the second she put them in another home where they were not going to be treated to the same standard as everyone else there is a problem. He has a right to prioritize his own child, but it's still asshole behavior to treat Laurel's children so poorly.
I think the 1st story is NAH. I understand as someone who’s been verbally “poked and prodded” for being the quiet kid at school. Yes, it does make shy or introverted people feel uncomfortable when people ask “why are you so quiet?” as it makes out like you’re being wrong for keeping to yourself.
In the same way that freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequence for the OP, it’s the same for the person asking them. They just didn’t need to say that. Or they could have struck up a conversation in the normal ways rather than starting with an implicitly critical question like “why are you so quiet?”
It definitely depends on the way he asked why he was so quiet and the intention.
Growing up, I went through a domestic violence situation throughout childhood and would always default to keeping to myself because talking to others terrified me. Other kids would either, to my face or behind my back within earshot (and no care to say it quietly) would call me “wierd” and “creepy”, and say “why doesn’t she ever talk?” “She’s so quiet, she never talks”. It did enforce a subconscious insecurity and shame about how I don’t really possess the social skills to start conversation. So talking to people is still terrifying to me, but I’m not introvert - I crave socialization. So the anxieties are even more intense, because I want something so badly and can’t seem to do it right. So when I stick to myself, I go into a deep depression. It’s a constant push and pull.
OP likely had the same feeling of unfairness of cards they’ve been dealt. Heck, all introverts do, because society is about socializing, and the world isn’t built for them.
While the lash out may have roots to deep insecurities of OP’s past, it’s still something worth approaching their coworker and explaining and reaching out with best intentions to apologize and be kind.
@@Suited_Nat yea, it’s a no-win mentality for real 😭 I hope you find a journey to manage your stuff, too ❤️
This is how I see it. It was not a good way for the co-worker to approach them, but not fair to the co-worker to have them lash out.
Oh shit. I... I might not be an introvert...
I think that asking anyone "why are you SO [insert word here]" is rude. It really does put you on the back foot, having to defend something about yourself.
OP should still apologise for their brash response but clarify for that person why it's not ok to ask that, educate instead of isolate. It may be a good thing in future to have a little note on their desk that explains it, so they don't have to waste extra spoons.
For the first one I would say either NTA or ESH because I’m very introverted in those situations (I have anxiety and I’m autistic) and people will harass me over not socializing when they don’t know me or even want to get to know me. The amount of times people come up to me when I’m minding my business and ask “are you okay?” Before walking away without even waiting for an answer. It makes me feel like I’m just their good deed for the day because they don’t even wait for an answer. While that might not have been the guys intention I do think it’s rude to go around asking people why they’re so quiet so probably ESH because it still wasn’t fair to snap at him but micro aggressions suck as well.
Agreed! I think op overreacted but the colleague was clearly being shitty by demanding a reason for op’s quietness
I agree, but I do think it is ok to snap back when they are harassing you. They could've answered more nicely, but they are not the asshole for defending themselves.
i strongly disagree with the first one. it would be incredibly rude to ask an extrovert "why are you so loud", so what makes people think asking introverts why they are so quiet is okay? also, people very often don't mean that as a genuine question but rather an accusation or "something must be wrong with you since you're so quiet". when you hear that question on every single social occasion, it gets on your nerves, so i get why op snapped (although it definitely would've been better if he just answered calmly. i still don't think he's the asshole though).
i guess you could compare it to catcalling. men don't catcall to genuinely compliment, they do it to assert dominance and scare people. it's the same with this question, they don't actually want to know why you're quiet, they just think of it as a flaw and want to point it out.
(i am not saying catcalling and this specific question are as serious or anything else on that matter. this is not a serious comparison. if you got offended, you misunderstood so move on!)
so, time to "expand your mindset" if you do actually mean that.
Asking "why are you so quiet" isn't a kind way to include someone, it's very rude. In my personal experience, "why are you so quiet" has always been an accusation. It's not a good conversation starter (unless you're trying to start a fight)
And honestly, you can't constantly bother and harass someone just for peacefully existing, and when they've had enough and lash out be all like "see? there IS something wrong with you" or say they contribute to the general perception of quiet people as "weird"
The guy asking wasn't THE problem, but he certainly was part of it
As a person who has had several step parents, I am so done with step parents that don't make you feel welcome in the family. What that dude is doing is essentially making the kids feel unwelcome in their home and family. It becomes childhood trauma.
100%
You know, I do agree with OP in that his daughter shouldn't have to leave or share her room. Like, dad brings home an entire new family and she has to abandon or share her space? Nah, that's not great.
That said, it's also not fair to the other kids here.
But this means there is no perfect solution. Which means they should never have gotten this far 🤷🏻♂️
@@Suited_Nat I don’t know. If he wasn’t actually involved in their upbringing and he was just their mum’s boyfriend, than he would have been more like an uncle than a dad. I don’t expect my uncle to treat me the same way he treats his own kids. It’s not that they don’t care about me, it’s just a different relationship.
I like how you consider everyone’s perspective, but the perfect solution would have been if the girlfriend had never lost her home and had to suddenly merge households.
Sometimes terrible unforeseen things happen and if you end relationships based on the possibly of one day ending up in a situation where there are no perfect solutions, than no one would ever enter a relationship.
@@mikaylaeager7942 yes that there is no perfect solution to living together and it obviously would be better if she hadn't lost her house but i absolutely think this relationship should've ended a long time ago. this is not really an unforeseen thing, yes losing her house is unforeseen but they've known for 8 years that OP wants nothing to do with her kids so this is a conflict that was bound to happen one way or another. OP should've left when he learned about the kids and the gf should've left when she knew OP basically wanted to ignore that her kids even existed
@@katepedersen4655 I feel like you are applying your definition of what a relationship should be here. You can share companionship and intimacy with someone while living separate lives.
This situation here feels to me like the intention was always to live separate lives (separate homes, separate families, separate finances etc.) Basically a long-term, committed friends with benefits situation. It’s atypical but barring emergency situations it seems to have worked for them.
If that’s the case, we should view this as a friend helping a very close friend out by temporarily inviting them into their home when they fall on hard times.
@@mikaylaeager7942 good point I didn't think of it that way. to me though the way it was represented is that they are in a committed relationship beyond just fwb and the only part of their lives that don't mix is the kids that's just an assumption though
I am going to say that it is rude to ask people why they are quiet as someone who has quiet friends who get asked this constantly. It can be to do with some types of neurodivergence, some people have been abused and are quiet for this reason. I can think of many other reasons but my point is that how people question others is important. It can be hurtful to be asked “why are you quiet” when often people are not asked “why are you talkative and interact easily with everyone”. When people have been made to feel like there is something wrong with them, for being different (keeps to self), it can be triggering to be asked a question like that. It may seem like a simple question but is quite invasive.
Rephrasing the question to be straight up would be better. If that person wants to know if anything is wrong they can ask that but also if they mention it is because that person is quiet that can still hurt and tie back to them being seen as different and possibly less socially acceptable (in many peoples eyes).
I mention neurodivergence and childhood abuse because that is how I can relate (and people I know who are quiet).
{A friend of mine is very emotionally effected by being asked why she is so quiet daily because it feels like others think there is something wrong with her }
I have good news! My friends mom might be taking us to our first Pride event later this month! I’m also making my friend some kandi stuff for his birthday with glow in the dark beads!
Oh that’s so fun! I hope you have a wonderful time :D
Have fun!!!
(totally of topic but your last name looks like ["from" + the name of my French city] in French)
@TwiggyToby Thank you so much! ❤️
@Elwène Llp Thank you! Also I think that’s exactly what it is. Most of my family is Cajun so it’s probably that.
Miss Manners says rehearse a line that you can pull out, such as, "I'm an introvert. I'd rather not talk to anyone usually."
As a person with a visible disability, I can relate to the first story when the person says they're always asked the same thing. I struggle with being polite. The person asking me "why are you in a wheelchair?", they see it as they're one person asking. But I might have had a DAY FULL of people, one by one, asking me similar questions, or making ignorant assumptions. After 50+ years of this, almost daily, it's exhausting to be the one who has to be polite. If you want to be alone, you should be allowed to be alone. Even sitting with headphones on or reading a book doesn't protect you from people wanting to chitchat. I get that person so much!
Agree with you on the first one bc of how op reacted but “why are you so quite” is a pretty rude question
Came here to say exactly that
It seems more like an ESH situation
I agree with a lot of people here on the first one. “Why are you quiet” is not a conversation starter or a way to be polite. Yeah, it was a big reaction. But there is no way in which that was an attempt to draw someone in to a friendly conversation. ESH.
I’d disagree that the first one isn’t about marginalised characteristics. You actually stated the norm is for people who are talkative. So yes, this poster is marginalised by not being the norm. If you’re someone who doesn’t like to just chat with people, constantly being ask (and so being forced to chat) about why you don’t chat is exhausting. However well intentioned the question may be. I’d say he could’ve apologised after the outburst but that the outburst was understandable.
The hotel bathroom one really hits home. When I was 13 we went on a school trip and slept in a hotel with multiple kids sharing a room. I didn't have many friends and none of them went on that trip so I was completely alone and with a group of random kids. I have had what I suspect might be IBS at least since I was a teenager which means very frequent numbers 2's... These kids were extremely upset with me for going number 2 in the shared bathroom and proceeded to bully me for the rest of the trip, excluding me from conversations, threatening to tell everyone about the 'poop incident' if I didn't do what they said and still bullying me about it back at school every time they saw my backpack peek out under the bathroom stall. For years afterwards I was subtly and shittily bullied by them. Part of this was probably because I am autistic and not great at fitting in in the first place but this trip and that bathroom was really a catalyst.
Anyway idk where I was going with this I guess I just wanted to get it out after hearing that story since I've never heard anyone with an even remotely similar story and especially not anyone defending the pooper.
I really relate and feel your story so much; and I'm really sorry you had to go through that. I hope some time has passed and you have moved on in a way that is healthy for you. Don't let them bother you. You're a human being deserving of love and kindness just like everyone else. P.s. everyone has bathroom accidents, and I, also struggling with IBS at a younger age, had an accident that at the time was highly embarrassing. Looking back on it now, I've told the story to my boyfriend, and we both laugh about it together. Sometimes silly or embarrassing things can become funny overtime with the right healing and people in your life :)
I have to disagree with the reasoning on story 1. Just randomly walking up to someone and throwing at them "hey, why are you always so quiet?!" is super rude. Sure, "simply asking" should not be a problem, but when it's done like that, it is an accusation and/or an expression of the rude person's discomfort at a person sitting quietly in a room. Do you have to go off on someone immediately for being rude to you? Well, no. Can it really set you off, especially when you have had this experience multiple times before? Certainly. It would be a different story if there's an indication of concern, or interest in your person, but that would be done in a very different manner. So, yeah, the outburst was a bit unnecessary, so I'll go with ESH, as I really think people should be called out for being rude. Just because the question "sounds normal" doesn't mean it's okay to just blurt it out at any given moment.
The first person should make business cards that explain it to hand out to anyone who asks. It says "I expected this question" while at the same time allowing OP to formulate a good written response to get the point across clearly. It can also include pointers on what TO talk about with op while avoiding small talk.
I don't think it should be OP's responsibility to make sure other people are ok being around someone who doesn't want to talk, people should just mind their own business and if conversation ever arises then I think OP is capable of talking about their interests 🤷
@@anthea6669 well, yeah, it's not. I just thought it was a clever solution. People aren't going to stop asking so OP might as well make the most of it.
It can be difficult for people to talk to quiet people to get to know them well enough to talk about anything outside of small talk so something on the card that pertains to an interest opens up an avenue of welcome conversation. How else is OP supposed to shoehorn Jurassic Park (or other interests) into conversation without sounding insane?
@@kyriejones6060 I see what you mean 🤔 In that case OP could have another set of cards for when they don't want to talk with the other person at all 😂 Otherwise people would assume they do want to have a conversation.
With the first one I’ve personally had the experience where people were asking not from a good place. They were asking in a very rude way. An example is I was asked you don’t talk much. Do you just hate people or some thing? So I get why they can get defensive about it and I’ve also been dismissed when I say I’d prefer to keep to myself and not left alone after.
As a person who has gotten the question "why don't you ever talk?" by people at school. It literally doesn't matter how much you do or don't talk those people will always think the amount you speak is never enough but will also talk over you. Its rude and bullying makes you feel like your not enough because how you just work and feel comfortable being. Don't let those people make you feel bad how ever much you want/ feel comfortable talking is fine.
I agree with all your takes! I feel so bad for the kids in that last one, it's like they're being batted around in a situation they had no choice in
Since no one seemingly did it yet, I'm gonna recommend Frank James' Rap "Why are you so quiet" regarding the first story. It deals hilariously with the exact same situation!! He makes generally awesome introvert-themed content.
Yes! It immediately started playing in my mind!!!!
I think it’s important to remember that what count as invasive questions about marginalized characteristics are negotiated and renegotiated over time. Sometimes it even seems like, as this negotiation is taking place, there are individual people who cling to their “right” to interrogate *some* topics on the borderline of that renegotiation. As if they literally feel entitled to publicly hassle *someone*, and having grudgingling agreed under social pressure to leave racial, gender, etc questions in peace, they want to know who they DO still get to concern-troll. Just five years ago (or so), “why are you so fat?” would still not have been widely-enough agreed to be an invasive and unhelpful conversation starter. Like, people existed who were either tired of hearing it already or believed it to be unnecessarily rude, but not enough to finally put it, culturally, in the “obviously not” box.
I think right now we are in a gradual process of renegotiating public conduct around neurodivergence and ableism that starts with a broader and more respectful understanding that these are topics which affect people’s lives in not just visible ways but also invisible and less-well-known ways. I’m not saying “quiet” is neurodivergent, but demanding to know why someone is quiet is basically saying, “You socialize differently from us! Explain yourself!” And I think that might be exactly the kind of invasive question that gets put in the “absolutely not” box soon. As soon as there is enough mounting social consciousness around how it can be connected to aspects of experience that should be private until a person freely chooses to talk about them.
Also, just from the initial reading of the story, I didn’t get the vibe that the person was trying to say “are you okay?” But if that is what was happening… well they have my sympathy re: how hard it can be to start a sincere conversation or strike up a potential friendship. I guess my best advice would be: when looking for the right words, throw out anything that reminds you of tall people getting asked why they’re tall or how the weather is up there. You don’t want your first impression to be that you are That Person
Just wanted to stop by and say that this was a beautifully written comment, and I agree - society is moving, but it's slow. Cheers!
With the first one, there’s a huge difference between “Are you doing alright? I’ve noticed you haven’t been socializing much and I just wanted to check in and let you know I’m always happy to talk” and “Why are you so quiet? You never say anything!” The latter is definitely judgmental and frames it as if the person is doing something wrong by being quiet. It’s also not inviting conversation - that would be “Hi, how are you” - it’s just expressing judgment.
I can see why that might not be obvious to someone who hasn’t experienced it, but it really is akin to a microaggression in my opinion - as someone who’s queer and afab and has experienced plenty of microagressions based on those marginalized identities, I really do feel that “you’re so quiet” or “you’re weird” or “why don’t you ever [insert some social expectation]” are microaggressions targeting neurodivergence. That doesn’t mean they’re always used against people who actually are neurodivergent, in the same way that “that’s so gay” isn’t always used against actual gay people; it’s targeting a marginalized characteristic. It’s signaling that you’re not allowed to be different and that you just existing as yourself, in the ways that make you comfortable, are offputting or bad or make others uncomfortable. It’s just not cool. And just like OP said, it’s not that any one person saying it is the worst thing in the world, but like with any microagression, hearing it over and over, and on top of that people not being receptive to the fact that they’ve hurt your feelings and been rude by saying it, really eats you up inside.
Ugh, that last one! The grownups truly do suck in that situation.
The last story is so unbelievable, like, how can two adults with kids be so irresponsible? It is OBVIOUS that a situation like that would never work. Especially with teenagers?! I can only imagine the trauma those kids are going through. It's so unfair to them - all of them! Seriously, that story made me really upset on behalf of the children involved. I definitely hope they do the right thing, split up AND work together to find a way for the mom to be able to afford living with her kids in a safe place. It's the only possible responsible thing to do.
In my opinion, it is an option to have a relationship with someone and perhaps even marry them without becoming a parent to their children. In that case, there should absolutely be two separate households- having kids be “roommates” with adults they’re not related to should be avoided at all costs. Now this happens to be an emergency situation, so I can understand them *temporarily* moving in while for example the mom looks for a job. But in a situation like that, the family is guests in their house, and should be treated however guests usually are (probably sleeping in the guest room) and move out as soon as it’s possible.
This is such a good answer!! I really don’t think OP is the asshole, but I couldn’t explain why until I read your comment.
I have lived with relatives and friends temporarily while looking for jobs/housing and I would never EVER ask them to share or give up their room. Since OP never intended nor wanted to cohabitate this should similarly be treated as a temporary situation with the same expectations.
It would be weird to marry someone with no intention of joining your households though… Why not just be long-term partners in that case? If someone were able to make that work somehow, than you do you I guess.
@@mikaylaeager7942 Yeah to me it just isn’t clear if this is explicitly a temporary situation or if it’s more like “until things get better” or they’re moving in for the foreseeable future. If they’re moving in forever it definitely isn’t fair to have 3 kids in one room and 1 kid in another.
And yeah, I think it really depends on the definition of marriage for any particular person, but I think for most people it’s all about blending families, cohabitating, “being in it together,” etc. So you’d have to have a pretty different definition to want to keep separate families. But I certainly think it could work if that’s right to you!
@@pegmama8 If they were together for 8 years and are only now cohabitating because of an emergency situation, it seems pretty clear to me that OP doesn’t want this to be permanent.
If they have clearly communicated this to their partner and they are not splitting cost as a tenant or roommate, than the partner is for all intents and purposes a guest in their house.
If that’s the case, it’s the partner who gets the AH badge. Someone opens their home to you and your children when your in desperate need and you turn around and say “while shouldn’t I have the bigger room?” No you’re a guest, you get the guest bedroom!
Also, think of it from the daughters perspective. Your fathers girlfriend and her children move into your home and evict you from your room. If that isn’t a breeding ground for resentment! Yes, it sucks that the three kids have to share a room, but the alternative was having no room at all. One room is a step up on the way to hopefully finding something better.
I felt like Shaaba's response had a lot of assumptions about relationships needing to result in cohabitation, seeing each other everyday, sharing finances etc to be serious, but agree with this - it seems obvious to me that they wanted separate households (homes, bank accounts etc) and even though the lying would have been a dealbreaker to me, having an agreement to not involve the children in the relationship is another valid solution for this sort of a relationship, unfortunately an emergency came up and now the children are being hurt, but less than if 3 of them were now homeless, and I really think the solution to the current situation is to go back to having separate households as soon as possible, that is if the relationship can survive this current period. Thanks for bringing this perspective in! ✨️💞
@@Phy5icsFaer1e definitely agree!
I agree that everybody sucks in that situations, how can you keep soemthing like having children secret? And how can you set a boundry that is basically saying "Oh, I still love you, but I will never respect or love your children, cool?"
I want to like this more than once. How could and why would you stay with a liar? How could and why would you blend families with someone who wants nothing at all to do with your children? It sounds like the parents are the type who would do anything not to be single, including screw over all 4 kids. I feel so sorry for those children
What I find fascinating about the second scenario is that Jamie thinks it's "disgusting and disrespectful" to poop in the hotel room, but apparently pooping in the lobby bathroom is the "correct" thing to do-even though the lobby bathroom is the one that people who are not hotel guests HAVE to use. It sure sounds to me like Jamie only thinks pooping is "disgusting and disrespectful" if SHE is the one being bothered by the smell; nobody else's comfort matters.
3:56 someone who wants to talk does not ask "why are you so quiet?" As someone who behaves a lot like the OP, any stranger that asked that question was (not so silently) judging me. The only time that question is valid is when it's asked between people who are close to each other. If people want to start a conversation, they do it in a polite way (eg. May I sit here? Hi, how are you? Comments about the weather, sports or work). And these interactions are the reason I'd always find a quiet spot away from the company's break room when I worked on-site.
The correct response to "why are you so quiet?" is "why are you so nosy?" or "why do you need to know?" If someone wants to check another person is ok when that person doesn't usually talk, a quick, gentle "are you ok?" is quite sufficient. "Why are you so quiet?" asked of someone you know well is not rude, but the question assumes the kind of intimacy that the addressed will be willing to explain and it's no one else's business why they're quiet!
I completely disagree with your first judgement. The person in the first story didn't ask if OP was okay. They asked "Why are you so quiet?". As an introvert, it is very irritating to always get this question and have to explain it to people who don't understand. I am also bi. I see it the the same as someone asking "Why can't you pick a side?". Both are incredibly rude because they question you as a person while implying that that part of you is somehow wrong. It is obviously a question meant to shame the person for their inherent traits, not because of concern or genuine curiosity.
oh come on, as a bi introvert as well are we really comparing blatant biphobia, which is something that is harmful on a much larger social and even systemic scale, to someone curiously asking someone else why they are quiet? Asking someone why they are quiet does not inherently mean that is viewed as negative, but anti LGBTQ+ bigotry absolutely confers negativity due to a long history of propaganda, discrimination, oppression and misinformation. Quietness is something that does not have an inherent positive or negative connotation to it culturally, it depends on the context. To assume that OP's colleague was trying to judge or shame them makes no sense given the context, and its more likely that they were just curious and wanted to start a conversation using the one and only personality train they know about OP since OP doesnt hang out with them or other coworkers.
Someone curiously asking another why they are quiet in a misguided attempt to be friendly and start a conversation is not the same as someone denying someone else's sexuaIity and being prejudices towards them. How is this even a real comparison?
Nailed it. Exactly!
First story: not exactly the same thing, but in high school on Tuesdays and Thursdays I didn’t have any friends at lunch, so I would bring a book. People would come up and sit with me and try and engage in small talk, and it was super annoying because I just wanted to read, but I didn’t know how to ask them to leave. Especially because I’m sure they thought they were being nice and “including that poor lonely girl”. I’m not saying never approach someone who you think might want a friend, but please phrase it in a way that makes it their choice “hey, do you want some company, or did you want time to read?”
Last story: the relationship started when the kids were young. You can’t be in a serious relationship with someone if you aren’t also willing to have serious relationships with their kids who will be co-depends for over a decade. I know it sucks to have to give someone up when there’s nothing wrong with the person themselves, but everyone would be happier in the long run.
I agree on the first one, but it's a pretty soft YTA, because honestly, I've done the same thing. The fact is, introverts are often treated as though our way of being is inferior, and it does get tiresome. Lashing out at people like that is not OK, but I do understand it. I'm trying to get better at saying, "I'm just an introvert" or "It's just how I am" consistently instead of yelling at the 20th person who has asked me this week. But also, extroverts, can we ask you to please just let us be quiet and not make a thing out of it? Thanks. (Edit: I'm actually changing my verdict to ESH, because the coworker really was pretty rude in how he asked.)
For the second one, the friend was the a-hole. That is a ridiculous request. What happens when this person shares a house with another person? Is nobody allowed to poop at home then? They need to get over it.
For the last one, wow. I think Shaaba was too easy on him, tbh. This guy is raising his daughter to think she's entitled to certain privileges over other kids. Does he want her to be like Cinderella's stepsisters? Does he not think that learning to share would be good for her? Of course he should have ended it when he realized that he wasn't willing to treat GF's kids equally. His feelings for her are not as important as what he is putting the kids through. I feel like he's using his stronger financial position as a way to control the GF and her kids and emphasize their dependence on him, and thats pretty crappy behavior. Of course GF also should have left him when she realized he was going to treat her kids as less than his. But he is definitely the bigger a-hole, and he needs to do some serious reflection on what it means to be a family.
I have a big ol' polyamorous set of parents, a couple of whom have kids. My dad and I live in an apartment, and one of his partners, whom I call "mom" lives in her own place with her three little ones. I love love love my family, and living in seperate houses was just right for us. It doesn't mean we love eachother any less, it just means 5 kids, four rodents, a dog, and an adult couple would be a LOT for a two bedroom space. Meanwhile my bio mom moved in with her boyfriend and I lived with him for quite a few years before running away. He HATES kids and would always talk about it, with me and my bio brother being 11-12 and literally right there. That's not how you blend a family
THIS! I love this. Your childhood must have been so interesting! But to the point - them deciding to just have NOTHING to do with each other's kids is the stupidest "agreement" I've ever heard of, and at the very least should have been reworked when the emergency housing issue changed the dynamics. Ignoring and neglecting the kids is not the way to go, and neither is choosing favourites when you suddenly have to co-exist.
For the first one, I think ESH, since OP kind of lashed out at their co-worker, but the way the co-worker asked was not thoughtful. If you asked someone who is being loud, "Why are you so loud?" instead of saying, "Would you mind being quieter?" that would definitely be rude! The co-worker could have said "I've noticed you're quiet, are you feeling okay?" like other people below have said.
For the last one, I agree that ESH, but I can definitely imagine a situation where the OP and their partner agreed to date long term, with the understanding that they would not move in together or get married while their kids were still minors. I feel like dating and living separately is a totally reasonable solution where their kids each get to have a parent who treats them equally, and the partner isn't expected to do financial or emotional labor in another parent-child relationship. Of course, that doesn't seem like what OP or their partner wanted long-term, and if that's true they should have broken up when they realized their values were misaligned!
Oh my gosh, the hotel one is ridiculous. Stop trying to gatekeep toilets 😂I once shared a hotel room with a friend and that friend happened to know that I have a severe sensory aversion to mint (I'm autistic). I was expecting just to have to deal with it when my friend brushed his teeth, but he went and did it elsewhere and I was quite surprised and extremely touched that he would do that so that I wouldn't be uncomfortable. You don't owe it to people to do stuff like that, though, but it sounds like the friend Jamie had assumed their expectation was the norm. It is tricky when that happens, but OP is DEFINITELY not in the wrong.
I have stomach issues so no way in heck am I going to use a less convenient bathroom because of someone else's weird hang ups. That's what Pooperi and Febreeze are for.
Right?? This is precisely my take on it. Having to deal with ibs in a public lobby bathroom would be so much more uncomfortable and mortifying for me than having to manage it with one other person, in the comfort of our hotel room. You can get around it by just coordinating when the bathroom is used if possible, making sure you clean, using the ventilation, and using air freshener. Idk where Jamie got this idea from but it's wild 😂
Same. I might not need to use it for #2 for 2 or 3 days or I might need it 4 times in a day or urgently. Yes, I am getting advice and medication from the doctor because it is not normal
@@Unchained_Alice oof I hope you find a solution. I had to get a Colonoscopy and I'm only in my 30's. Microscopic Colitis. Basically inflammation on such a small scale you need a Microscope to see it, but it sure doesn't feel microscopic when I eat something that disagrees with me.
@@Resilient_Sage88 Thanks. Hopefully so. I have other issues too and it's all pointing towards EDS which can cause stomach issues like that. Which are made worse because I am sitting/lying down more lately. I have the stretchy skin (though not extreme) and everything
@@Unchained_Alice I do have a friend with chronic ibs who also got diagnosed with EDS a few years ago. Mine onset after a particularly stressful job and has been getting steadily worse since but hey. I manage it through diet, and often just have to accept the discomfort so I can still have a varied diet.
The last one, both adults are the ass••• because they both knew how the other person felt and they didn’t break up; instead they stayed together for 8 years and moved in together and made things worse.
I have to disagree with the first one. "Why are you so quiet?" Is not an invitation to speak. "Hey, what do you think?" Or "Do you want to talk with us?" Is an invitation. I've been asked why I was so quiet my entire life. Spoiler alert: I'm autistic. I don't socialize well and much prefer to observe and listen, or just mind my own business. I think that Shabaa believes the best in everyone, but that's simply not the case here. "Why are you so quiet?" Is a personal question that does imply an accusation. I really feel for OP since they have also said that they receive that question CONSTANTLY. After being asked the same thing twice makes me upset, and so did the constant asking of why I was so quiet. Exploding is justified, even though it wasn't great. Honestly, NTA. OP is clearly dealing with an annoyance a lot and just exploded. Yes, they should apologize, but it still was justified.
I really hate when people ask why I am so quiet. I disagree with you completely with your judgement and everything you say after. It's so f'ing annoying and just makes me so uncomfortable that I just retreat further into my shell. So OOP is NTA in that one. It is downright rude to ask someone 'why are you so quiet' so they deserve to be treated rudely too.
It's rare that I disagree so much with you in these videos but here I do. I wouldn't do what OOP did but I can fully understand why. They got fed up with the rude question 'why are you so quiet'.
Also, it IS to do with marginalised characteristics (at least sometimes). I am so quiet because I am autistic. That is pretty marginalised. So shocked with your take on this
But they took all that built up anger out on one person. If they'd reacted only or that person's question fair enough. But you don't let it build up then be a dick to one person who isn't responsible for all the other people who've asked.
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 Yes, you are right that it wasn't really right to take it out on them so much. I just got fed up with being asked it so much when I was at school and this video brought back those memories. Perhaps ESH is a better judgement but it certainly isn't ok to ask and I wish people wouldn't.
If they'd just try to start a conversation or something that is ok. That is what I'd have wanted
Yeah, like wouldn't it be rude to ask someone "why are you so loud?" or "why don't you stop talking?" I agree, I think being asked why you're quiet is rude, even if the person didn't originally mean it that way. We live in an extroverted society where being quiet is seen as wrong somehow. I don't think OP is an asshole.
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 Tbf, that person was not being polite. "Why are you so quiet?" is a rude question, and as someone who has been that quiet person, that exact question has been used by bullies so much it is basically a cliche opener of someone being a bully. While the level of anger was perhaps over what it needed to be, that question could definitely have raised defenses from other situations where it made OP worry they were about to be bullied. I can understand reacting harshly in that situation.
I think that first one suffers from the fact that this subreddit uses such harsh terms lol. That interaction was rude from both sides. It's nice to want to check in with someone and make sure they aren't being excluded, but asking "why are you so quiet?" is such a rude and invasive way to go about it. And on the other hand, it's totally fair to be irritated by such a question, especially since people ask it SO OFTEN. But the people asking it usually mean well and don't realize how bad it sounds. So snapping at them is a pretty harsh response, but I totally understand that sometimes our emotions act faster than our brains. It's good that OP recognized that, and I hope they both came to an understanding and apologized to each other. So I'd say it's a NAH in intent, but ESH in execution.
In this order:
YTA, for snapping at the colleague.
NTA, friend is TA. It's a toilet, it's meant for pooping, and the one friend has a fear of public toilets.
ESH. The woman was TA at first, then he was TA for not breaking up/continuing to the point of living together, when she has kids and he's gonna cause so much friction between her kids and his kid.
3rd OP- when he stated that finding out about the kids would be a "dealbreaker" that expresses exactly how he feels. The saddest part of this is it is the kids that will suffer. They need to not be together.
First Story: I'm admittedly not the best at socializing, but I never ask people for more personal information than they volunteer. Maybe they're being quiet because they have a sore throat, lost a pet, don't like talking, are in the middle of a mental health related shut down, etc, there are a lot of options. If they haven't already volunteered to reveal the reason they're being quiet, it feels like an invasion of privacy for me to dig it out. Maybe my way of handling that stuff goes against the social norms of asking follow-up questions to indicate interest, but in my head there's a fine line between demonstrating interest and being too nosy.
Okay, the first one I'm leaning towards NTA because as a Fem person, people always assume they are entitled to my time and talk to me even when I'm: Clearly busy, with my headphones in, hoodie on, and RBF cranked up to 11. People. Wont. Leave. Me. Alone. And its frustrating.
Pro tip: get brightly colored hair. I noticed the creepers stopped talking to me when my hair became bright green. People just say "love your hair!" And carry on. No biggie.
I disagree on the first one. I have disabilities and a service dog myself and I know how flipping often people can't mind their own business when someone looks or behaves a little different. They think they are the first one to ask that day, when in fact they are the 20th and it is always the same invasive questions. Of course you should always try to respond with kindness, especially if they are kind to you. But you know what you should also do? Not be afraid to stand up for yourself. And also? Realise that sometimes you are gonna snap, and forgive yourself for that. We often hold ourself to such high standards in comparison to "the average person". Don't forget you are a person too. Not the asshole.
Growing up a quiet kid, if anyone asked me "why are you so quiet?!" I always perceived it as an attack (probably an overreaction thanks to how mean my brain is). At first I was quiet because I couldn't get a word in and felt like no one cared enough to listen to me, then I was quiet because I had given up and was content keeping myself company/reading books instead of talking to people.
I get that OP's reaction was rude, but honestly I probably would've responded in the same way... seems like the person asking just came up out of the blue, no greeting or anything. That's also rude. If they had tried to start a conversation and say, "hey, I've noticed you're pretty quiet, are you okay/do you mind if I ask why?" That most likely would've been much better received and less likely for an instinctive reaction from OP.
"it welcomes poop, give it the poop" is not a sentence I was expecting to hear today
Not going to lie I think I disagree with the first one. "Why are you so quiet?" is an extremely rude question, and from what the OP said they literally only responded with an equally rude "why are you so loud? ". How are they the asshole just because they answered a rude question with a rude response? If you are going to question other ppl's way of existing when they haven't done anything to invite that question then prepare to get an equally unfriendly answer 🙃 also i don't understand why introverts are expected to be "kind" and "think of other's good intentions" when people ask the same stupid question but their rudeness are seen as something that's totally normal.
I feel for the first OP , im the exact same and im always asked that same thing and its definitely frustrating but OP should have thought how their response would sound to someone else . I always just shrug and say " donno , just am "
I always wonder if Shaaba is addressing something while recording and it sounds really funny or odd without context and her hubby Jammie walks in without context of anything 😂
My parents are divorced and I have two step families now. My relationship with my older step sister on my dad's side is rough, and I found out it is because my dad would go off on her if she hurt my feelings, so she avoided talking to me. How the step parent treats the step kids is so important. My dad treated my step sisters like shit, and now he and my step mom are broken up.
Just stumbled into this channel and 5 minutes in I have armchair diagnosed 1st op as ASD and also our narrator.
I'm home.
Story one feels like an ESH. Like yeah it's okay to ask "Hey you're pretty quiet is everything okay?" but "yo why always so quiet, man?" is not a way of asking the former. It's very accusatory. Like "what's your problem?" OP was rude in how they responded but like I think you're going to easy on the coworker.
The hotel bathroom situation sometimes you have to poop and don’t have time to go to the lobby. Sometimes the poop is abt to go out of you and you need a bathroom ASAP. This is even more true if you are on a higher floor. You don’t always have time to wait for the elevator or walk down all the stairs without popping your pants. Sometimes there are situations where you think it’s just pee but there is also poop
It's funny you did the right analysis on the introvert and then said it's not like it's a marginalized characterrestic ignoring the fact that. Introvert is a marginalized characteristic and then said it's not like it's coming from a sense of entitlement which was the second half of this too part expression of entitlement.
4:05 I think the poster is a soft AH not because of their feelings towards the question but because they lashed out at someone.
The question "why are you so quiet?" is used constantly to pressure, tease, and sometimes bully naturally quiet people. They seem to have some trauma around the question (understandable to me, myself and a sibling have trauma around it too).
However, it was not okay to direct pent up anger and frustration towards that co-worker.
I’m an extroverted introvert and I was way more introverted in high school. I would often get asked why I was always so quiet and my response was always “I’ll speak up if I feel it’s necessary, I just don’t feel like it’s necessary right now.” Or “I would rather have a conversation that means something rather than gossiping.” Sometimes I was a bit sassy about it, especially if someone asked it in an accusatory tone. I tend to be more involved in conversation now. It did sometimes bother me when people asked.
A little TMI but here we go. So my dad has always had the worst smelling poop for some reason. When he poops in his bedroom bathroom, I can smell it like I’m in there with him when I am really all the way upstairs in my room with the door shut. And the smell lingers. No spray will cover it. He is not blind this, so he tries to not poop in a hotel room that we’re all sharing. He will go downstairs to the lobby bathroom. Of course if it’s 2am and he has to go, he’s not gonna walk all the way downstairs to do it. So the only thing I would ask is if OP has a similar issue and is that why her friend doesn’t want her pooping in the hotel room bathroom
but HOW MANY times can you answer "why are you so quiet" before you snap? Like sure, the one person didn't mean much by it, but after hearing it so many times I 100% get and wouldn't blame them.
Reminds me of snappy answers to stupid questions, a feature in MAD magazine. Maybe don't yell, but 100% make people uncomfortable if they make you so.
On the last one, the whole "your kids, my kids, but not our kids" thing seemed to be working out until they had to move in together for financial issues. So unless that's a temporary arrangement until the financials aren't an issue anymore, the separation in raising the kids can't continue, because if you're sharing a home you're already sharing rules, you're already raising them together.
I think that "why are you so quiet?" is a rude question in general, but especially inconsiderate since asking that forces the other to do something that they for whatever reason struggle with or don't like to do. They may be an introvert, or autistic, or just shy. They could have some kind of a speech impediment they're not comfortable with. Or maybe they just don't like anyone in that environment enough to want to chat with them. Could be that they've been told off for talking too much in the past, or being too loud, and sort of overcompensate in order to not do it again. They can possibly really struggle with transitions, so it's easier for them to not encourage any interruptions, especially if their work mates are chatty. It doesn't really matter why, since all the reasons would make that question and the person asking it a nuisance.
It's a bit like asking someone why they don't drink alcohol at a party. The reason may vary from person to person, but it's very likely either somewhat painful, embarrassing, or too personal to talk about with someone you don't know that well. I've always felt that people asking me that have been after some juicy gossip, and then been disappointed when I tell them that I just don't like the flavour. And every time it's been asked it comes out as criticism, implying that drinking is the norm and you need a specific reason to not do it.
As someone who’s grown up for a time with a step parent who obviously cared for her kids more then me/my siblings, if you want to get with someone who already has kids you need to care for them 100% as your own. Your kids should come first and dragging them through a relationship (or several) where their care and feelings in the situation are rarely (or never) even acknowledged causes so much trauma. That relationship is not worth the lifelong trauma you can potentially cause them.
with the first one, i feel like it depends on how the person asked and prior context for the person they got mad at. if said person used a more negative tone or something and if said person had tried to talk to them before. i do feel like in this instance i would apologize but i am not everyone and i do consider myself a slightly more extroverted ambivert but i feel like OP should at least be like "sorry about snapping at you i just get asked this a lot" or something but i do see both sides of this situation and i do see how in many instances OPs anger could be prompted but it does truly depend on the persons tone and if they had ever tried to initiate conversation with OP before.
They definitely both suck because the partner clearly never considered her children in the scenario.
I have one kid and don't really want any more, so I definitely wouldn't get into a serious relationship with someone with children knowing that I might not be able to treat their kids with the same amount of care and respect as my own child (and vice versa)
The first one is clearly NTA. This is a really invasive question and you are always justified to show others that these questions are not okay!
An opposite problem with my youngest, aged about four, when we were visiting relatives, about 300 miles from home.
"I need a poo, so we have to go home now."
I disagree with the first one. He was nta. As a fellow introverted person who has gotten this exact question so many times myself, I understand his frustration. While I've never lashed out at someone whose asked me that, I have had the very real urge to do so. Just let people be quiet and introverted.
I completly agree with the last one, i don't get how some people don't understand that dating someone with children makes you have a certain responsability...
I even had a guy ask me out when i was younger & he had a kid. When i refused telling him i did not want to have a maternal role he said, i kid you not, " oh but they have their mom so you wouldn't be"... and whileni agree that as a stepparent you never replace the bio parent, him not understanding that just by dating him i would put myself in a parenting role was bonkers to me. I think OP thinks along this line & is now realizing that it doesn't work like that
For the first OP, I am sad to say that extroverts are considered the norm. However, I have thought of 2 things they could do about it in the future. 1. Get a badge that says something about I am an introvert. Please leave me alone. And/or 2. Have business card like things that explain why you wish to be left alone. (I have seen tall people do number 2.)
So many communication issues.
I agree with Shaaba with the last story, everyone sucks in that situation. Yes, OP sucks a lot for being in this relationship for 8 years and very well knowing that this woman had children by that point. On the other hand, his girlfriend knew going in that he didn’t want more children and I suppose expected him to change his tune over time? If someone states a boundary, either you hash it out early on or you reconsider being with them long-term. Based on the info available, both seemed to be expecting each other to bend in their original agreement, which is evidence that they are both being a-holes in their own way.
Yes exactly. most people seem to think the only bad thing the gf did was not mention it early on but she also knew his feelings about the kids. she has just as much if not more of an "obligation" to break up because she also knew what his boundaries were and should've put her kids 1st from the start. it's crazy to me that she's all up and arms now about the rooms when she's known for 8 years that OP doesn't feel like he has to/should do anything for her kids.
@@katepedersen4655 - Exactly! And this is why I’m questioning her motives; did she just assume he’d change his mind over time? That’s a risky gamble to take when you have kids who will be affected by this boundary. And it IS a boundary, regardless if we agree with it or not. Both parties share blame for staying in a relationship where the other person had fundamentally different values.
@@Rikrobat yeah definitely agree. she's more of an AH then him imo because this conflict is about her kids who she should've been protecting from the get-go
When I heard the "Why are you so quiet?" story it made me think of Frank James' video that he released just a few days ago (last week I think?) it's a rapped answer to that question and it's perfect
I agree with you on the first one because I am an introvert myself and I don't understand why people want to talk friendly at work because it's work. Not that I don't say like hi how are you but. One time in college I was minding my own business on my phone sitting in a chair and some guy walked up to me and started wanting to chat, asking standard questions and I had quick short answers and didn't ask any questions back. Do I not sound disinterested? My other friend who came over had to interject for them to finally walk away but I like to enjoy my time and don't enjoy talking with people much.
For the 3rd story, I think splitting responsibilities is okay for hard parenting decision situations, e.g. when a kid screwed up and need to be reprimanded or when they want to talk about something controversial. Then, it's the OP's right to say 'I won't tell you how to handle such stuff with your kids and you don't tell me how to handle such stuff with my daughter'. But apart from that, they can't pretend as if they're living separate lives in one house - they can still be nice to each other and spend time together.