I was so engaged in the delivery and content of your argument that when finished I left the site dazzled but realized I’d forgotten to hit the thumbs up so I came back & did. You’re a warrior, man, of the truth and you bring the data & studies to support your assertions and counter arguments. It’s a beautiful thing. I’m counting on people like you to change the medical world for the better for us all if they don’t crush you first. They are coming at you and you did an excellent and bold job pushing back. Keep at it my friend and thank you for doing so.
Funny. In all seriousness, I don't know how I can be more clear. I hope you found my "accusations" at 9:00 minutes and beyond well reasoned, if quite direct.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Paraphrasing, "Here's the published research; I've cited it for you more than once; you're not only ignoring it, you're claiming that it doesn't exist. Therefore, you're just flat wrong." How much more well-reasoned could you have been?
Solid intro. Thanks for not wasting my time. The doctors making mistakes publicly, need to be called out and given a polite opportunity to retract or correct. And if they persist, they must be held accountable. Maybe create a LMHR Disinformation Hall of Shame.
"The doctors making mistakes publicly, need to be called out and given a polite opportunity to retract or correct. And if they persist, they must be held accountable." 100% agree.
Don’t quit Nick! We need doctors like you to explain this stuff. And yes ..we can learn more from doctors on TH-cam because our doctors don’t care to take the time to learn or want to bother to explain things to us. I have absolutely zero faith in mainstream medicine anymore.
Your frustration is long overdue and frankly surprising it's taken this long to surface. Don't allow these nay sayers get to you the work you do is so needed and appreciated. Only with clear verifiable and unbiased data can we learn and understand what the facts are. The false data is getting so bad that many people don't believe anything a MD has to say.
You are so right about that. My distrust for standard medicine has been growing in leaps and bounds as I see it reflecting more ignorance, corruption, and greed all the time. So very sad for our country. Yet, I still have hope but we all must speak out and confront them. We need a country-wide organization that represents medical patients on a whole range of issues with an education arm to make the public aware of things and organize those that have concern,a lobbying arm of keto and carnivore people and other Americans who want to see more transparency, functional doctors in insurance networks, naturopathic doctors, real supplement accountability, a quarterly magazine to educate members of our organization of new upcoming issues and old ones not adequately addressed. And more.
"getting so bad that many people don't believe anything a MD" ... that's - sorta' - what I'm so afraid of and pointing out ... when egos are so large they can't see their own clear misinformation, it gets called out, and discredits the community ... dangerous situation
This vid should be watched by everyone in medical school. What a great presentation. For me, as a non-scientist, non- medical person, such a presentation helps me spot and learn to identify the useless crap in arguments.
It wont be watched in medical school because its pseudoscience. In the end you should be glad that people actually saving your life when you get stroke/Heart attack or whatever due to poor life choices werent educated on pseudoscience.
I actually think that his integrity is very suspect. He says nothing about all of the carnivore doctors that say that LDL-C is meaningless and cite LMHR as the justification for their proposition. I don’t think he’s a charlatan in the same way that they are but birds of a feather.
@@davidzip8841 why is Nick responsible for any of those folks? How does “Birds of a feather” apply when Nick takes bgreat pains to distinguish his view from others?
Regarding Dayspring and others mentioned here, this is human ego on full display. This represents the inability to backtrack and say, maybe I was wrong or what I believed was possibly wrong. The curiosity has left the building. To Nick and team, nicely done and very necessary.
Even those who are Dayspring fans can't deny his arrogance is a bit "much," and there are some examples here where he's clearly speaking as an expert on something he hasn't taken the time to properly research. That may sound arrogant coming from me, but for those who watch the video in full, I think it's undeniable. Doesn't mean he isn't smart and informed on other matters or in general, but... here... on this specific topic...
I’m content to let you scientists fight out the truth about LMHR’s and LDL. Thank you for your work. Meanwhile, I will continue to live my life in the healed condition from day-by-day agonising IBS (and many other issues) Fatty meat ,eggs and a little fish for me👍
I completely understand where you are coming from, per my commentary about my own background mentioned just after 9 min into this video and covered/disclosed elsewhere.
I went full Carnivore in December 2023 and I have lost 35lbs in 3 months to get to my target weight. I wanted to be healthy again and get away from Carbs. I am now off all my blood pressure meds, I feel young again. My Migraine headaches are gone and now I'm on a Keto Diet. My Doctor was concerned but she had been on a Keto diet for 3 years and understood. She wanted to do an EKG and blood work as she was concerned. I just went on Medicare and physicals are not a thing. So I have no idea what my numbers are but damn I feel good now. I wake up in the morning and feel like a million bucks. When I was eating the IC it diet I always felt lethargic. Once my Doc saw my blood pressure she told me to quit my meds. I'm happy and won't change a thing. 😄
That's an encouraging personal story for me Annette and congratulations on your success. That's a situation I can relate to personally having gone keto six months ago to address an IBS (SIBO) condition that developped as a result of a food poisoning instance. However, I have suffered a relapse of my symptoms three weeks ago, so I'm not completely out of the woods yet.
@@JesusMartinez-mk6fc I certainly don’t have all the answers and am forever ‘tweeting’ and experimenting with what I eat. I don’t think my gut is totally healed, but am sure I am more comfortable eating high fat / low fibre foods. I’ve spent years and years trying to discover why eating food ends up causing me gut pain, all the whole trying to eat ‘healthily’ according to nutrition advisors and guidelines. Good luck with your journey.
I respect people who say “I don’t know” because most of them will persevere in finding out. Science is all about finding out. I am intensely interested in learning more. Thanks NN.
Keep it up, Nick! Here is why. They're scared! A lifelong career in what you believed is wrong is a huge mountain to climb if motivated to do so. As I battle with my PCP who thinks I'm going to drop dead of a heart attack despite all the metabolic improvements I have made. I think of her position being governed by protocols established with outdated studies, if she changes her position what are the liability implications of patients, insurance and big pharma contracts. So keep it up! That mountain needs to be climbed! ❤
LMHR is a very specific phenotype for which high LDL may have a different implication. NN is not seeking to disprove the entirety of the lipidology field. This is a specific case. Many of you need to slow your roll.
I just dropped all my meds because my doctor is annoying and I don’t want to talk about it anymore. They don’t deserve my time or money. He’s fat and I’m not. Who should be telling who how to eat?
Fantastic job! Too many are "Don't confuse we with the facts! My mind is already made up!" and or their ego wont let them change their stance on the subject. If this video does not work, keep doing what you and Dave are doing and move forward and ignore the peanut gallery.
They will continue to attack you, you are young, intelligent, not willing to simplify follow, but actually have a scientific mind that looks for facts. This goes against their rules. Please stay strong, the world needs you and you are being an positive role model for others like you. At this point in human history when society has lost all trust in the medical profession, you are a ray of hope.
Dr Nick, first and foremost, your presentation skills are quite incredible 👏🏽 I misclicked and ended up at this video, but I stuck around because the clarity of your explanations. Very impressive. LMHR doesn't apply to me as my LDL is in the late 50s (I've been whole foods plant based for years), but I do find the concept very interesting. It's a massive departure from traditional views on LDL, but ultimately what matters is not whether or not something makes peers happy/unhappy, but whether or not something is part of a quest for truth. Whilst I'll never be doing low carb myself, I do find the LMHR theory very interesting. I genuinely hope that further LMHR studies happen in the future 🙏🏽
Conversation and debate are not dead despite what you see in colleges. These individuals, Doctors, should be amenable to an open discussion regarding this very important topic. They are hiding in plain sight and it’s quite obvious why. Keep up the outstanding work. Thank you
Kudos. You are encouraging intelligent, unbiased discussions in the hope it will lead to better health outcomes for both individuals and the general population.
Great delivery of forward thinking arguments for the new sciences of cholesterol and lipidology. Keep presenting the data and studies, the medical world will be changing finally, and you will be one of the pioneers for this along with many others. Thank you for all the work you do!
I have high HDL, high LDL, trig below 70, BMI 21. I am not worried about high LDL because on balance of all risk factors (obesity, high blood pressure, UPF intake, prediabetes - all now reduced/resolved) I would rather have high LDL than multiple other factors with a much higher association with CVD. My LDL is way up, but my blood pressure is way way down. Along with GERD, arthritis, sleep apnea, depression, psoriasis, all resolved.
You should have 10X more subscribers. Your content is far more grounded in intelligence, as well as critical , discerning, and nuanced thinking than anyone else in this space! You're pushing back at something that you said you're beginning to find frustrating. Well I find it (the willful ignorance and misleading and misinforming criticisms) infuriating. I am SO glad that someone of your intelligence and intellectual honesty is weighing in on this topic.
"You should have 10X more subscribers. Your content is far more grounded in intelligence, as well as critical , discerning, and nuanced thinking than anyone else in this space!" You're making my day!
An entirely logical response which is easy to follow and understand. Well done, Nick. I'm glad you took the time to produce this piece as it helps many who are influenced by this specific misinformation. The misinformation is resultant from either ignorance, ego, monetary reasons or a combination. But whatever the reason, it's harmful of them to mislead. I hope you keep us informed of any responses by those individuals. Thanks.
Thank you for such a clear and concise overview of the disperate position that your detractors have taken. It clearly show them up for what they are. Keep up the superb work you do.
Recognizing the tremendous knowledge of the functional need of the human body for LDL, and how the levels of LDL respond to varying dietary and health factors, I believe that we should agree that LDL is a very important, indeed a critical component of overall health.
Thank you for what you’re doing. I worked in the medical industry for over 40 years, and saw exactly what your fighting against. Please don’t stop, we need to get the information out. ❤
You are my favorite nerd to watch & I watch a lot of them. You are engaging, respectful, knowledgeable and come across so genuine and educated. You know youre shit and you stand up for yourself against some major assholes (Layne). Thankful for your content! 👏🏽
Amazing video Nic! Sometimes a man has to do what he doesn't like but he does it because it's necessary. Congratulations! You've always been quite clear and nuanced in all your videos. This video was no exception and dare I say, you've taking it up quite a huge notch. This video is super clear, transparent and nuanced and a bulletproof response that draws the line on the sand to those opposing critics - most of which I've watched unfairly ridicule you - and that are not only perpetrating a disservice to the scientific community but to the advancement of learning and science. Keep up the groundbreaking work! 👏🏆👏
Your research makes total sense. I wanted something to explain why my keto diet is producing high LDL and found you on TH-cam. My doctor wants me to take Statins again, where I said no because I want to know why it's high. I now see why and what to do to bring that level down. I will be adjusting my diet but will stay on a keto diet. Keep studying, great job.
This might be my most liked post you have done. Very clear on what your goal is and your view. And how a few doctors are either ignorant or are “well let’s say not being completely honest”. Thank you
I’m glad you are keeping this. Attia seems to be misusing his position by simply parroting Dayspring. & it's obvious that Daysprimg is not listening. Hopefully they will see their errors, correct them, & move on.
This is the kind of videos I want to see! Even better, if we could gather all these people in a room and make a podcast of the discussion. We understand the subject is nuanced and we have a lot of unknowns, however in a discussions between opposing forces the new research directions will be decided. Thanks for this video, I hope the people mentioned will respond to it in a meaningful and constructive manner.
I love your pursuit of truth. It comes across in your vids. This is the kind of world I want to live in where actual science drives the narrative. That said, there are those “professionals” with their version of truth which, I think, is more an expression of position, ego and righteousness than it is of observable facts and ground truth. We are seeing an upwelling of that in recent years. Maybe the best way to deal with this is to just maintain YOUR position of truth and let those who resonate with truth find you, and let those who resonate with ego find them. Both are OK, but I just know the kind of world I want to live in.
You're winning. And it's obvious to all, lay, professional, does not matter. Slowly but surely, a massive paradigm shift is in motion and we're winning; humanity is winning. There's still a ton more to go, much more fighting, keep up the good fight.
If low carb sends TG and HDL in the right direction, it will NOT be far-fetched to assume the LDL is equally in the right direction. The problem arose because LDL has been labeled "bad cholesterol " by the medical community. The nuances in the case of LMHR should be considered. It is well-known that inflammation is at the root of many diseases including cardiovascular and metabolic ones. Does cholesterol, a saturated lipid, cause inflammation? Saturated lipids do not have bonds that enable reactions and hence unable to cause inflammation.
@@danielmccarthyy Actually Dayspring hasn't called me anything directly. He has historically avoided any engagements with me in any form. It's an interesting behavior pattern.
I enjoyed your careful breakdown of exactly why the meme that doctor posted was inappropriate and does a disservice to anyone who sees it and society at large. It’s like I paid someone to articulate using only logic why I’m feeling a certain way
Thank you for treating this in a sane and logically consistent way. To be honest I've stopped listening to Layne after initially listening to his work intently. The loudness wasn't being helpful. So I'm instead going back to the papers and trying to read carefully.
Nuanced medicine doesn’t fit into a one size fits all treatment algorithm. Most docs really don’t understand this stuff to begin with and rely on treatment algorithms to come up with a plan. Keep up the good work. Fan of your channel.
Nick, Great video! Love your approach. LDL being part of a causal chain is supported by scientific studies is an accurate statement, and yet so so much more can be said and is yet to be understood. I think what is missing in so so much of this debate is an evolutionary biology perspective, and a broader perspective that goes beyond the lipid energy model. VLDL, LDL, HDL are fundamental to our physiology.. they are mechanistic in that they have roles to perform in a complex system for which the lipid energy model sheds some light on. LDL also plays a role in the immune system. LDL is also essential for ferrying "building blocks" of fat and cholesterol used in the construction of cell membranes. A discussion that limits LDL to just being part of a causal chain while accurate as you have carefully explained is and can be misleading. As you point out.. high LDL being a normal physiological response does not actually make it casual in any way. As a principle in the case of CVD and plaque we should be highly suspect of the idea that such a fundamental component like LDL which the body makes for so so many processes would in any way be the root of the problem.. or casual. I'm sure you will respond by correcting me with a definition of casual that I am not considering... but my point is that someone needs to start describing LDL in a very very different light.. because it does so so so much more than just participate in the energy lipid model and being part of the bodies repair response to damage in our arteries. I feel like we are still very much caught up in the false debate using the Fire and fireman analogy... People keep seeing firemen at the scene of a fire and then blame the firemen. While you are focused on an energy model, LDL is participating in a damage control model as well. It is participating in a construction model as well.. and there is really no discussion of that here about all those other models. I believe that in that repair process high LD may yet take on new meanings when considering that or immune response etc etc etc. No where do I here any discussion of oxidized LDL. Maybe consider broadening the discussion about full scope of LDL to respond to all the naysayers.. like Rhonda Patrick. Maybe they need to be educated about more than just LMHR and the lipid energy model...
Thank you Nick! We support your selfless search for our optimal health while encountering the falsehoods & closedmindedness from obvious big pharma advocates. Keep up the awesome work!
People who understand science understand you very well, I guess it is hard to change some rigid beliefs, especially if your career was based on that specific belief. You are doing an amazing job and keep doing what you are doing, facts are there, people will have to change their views or they will stay behind 😊 Amazing job Nick, regards from another LMHR.
Nick, I've met Dave a few times. He applies more caveats to his position than a teenager trying to explain a scratch on the family car! I have been one of those Carnivores: "I don't care about My LDL. It was 200 when I was 19, and it's 250 now that I am low-carb. I am NOT a LMHR. My wife appears to be!" But she has a CAC of ZERO. And the doctor no longer threatens her with a statin (She is like 360+ LDL, normal weight, not low-carb, but usually in ketosis!). Part of the problem... Doctors have lied to us about SO MANY THINGS. Our trust is gone. And as a layperson, I do see your results and I think "It doesn't matter... Blaming LDL for the plaque is like blaming firemen for fires, or scabs for cuts!" But the more I listen, the more nuanced this becomes. It's almost like the message needs to be: "LMHRs: We don't know if it is safe. And even if our studies show that it is/might be... It does NOT say anything about High Cholesterol in NON-LMHRs. Or in unhealthy people eating a SAD diet. And it will PROVE NOTHING other than what the LIMITED data will show us for a small sample size of people!". These studies are interesting because CONFUSION about why something isn't doing what you expect (think particle physics), it usually means you are on the verge of discovering something (a new particle, or in LMHRs... a different reason for LDL). Finally, Malcom Kendricks has some numbers about statins. 30yrs of statins might add 2-3 days of extra life... Are they worth the side-effects?
I am a Lean Mass Hyper-Responders. My LDL 196 HDL106 Tri 32 Total testosterone 842 at almost 50 years old and I am in the best shape of my life. My metabolic biomarkers are optimal as well. I believe my results are not hurting my cardiovascular system and it is keeping me healthier. I have been practicing IF Restricted window 20 hours for over 4 years and I eat healthy fats and low carbs faithfully. I have changed my DNA expression/ epigenetics.
Chris McCaskill was having (yet another!) go (yesterday) at the (in his opinion) “limited” scope of your LMHR research study results / findings once again yesterday. This division of thought / belief / re LDL doesn’t seem to be going away anytime soon!
I like Chris as a person. He's coming from a different angle. I texted him this AM aim to follow by encouraging him to watch and engage on this video and the topics covered herein. I realize it's going to stir emotions, but I hope the net effect of the discussion that arises is productive. I am optimistic. I feel like I was direct, but fair.
@@nicknorwitzPhD That’s brilliant Nick. Let’s hope these silly social-media driven diet divisions and associated cherry--picked science data can be steadily outclassed by such courteous, intelligent debate.
Nick I love your content , knowledge and N-1 experiments. To be brief I have been following you, Dave Feldman and all others in the LMHR community for the past 2 years. I myself am a LMHR, 58 years old with a CAC score. Ugh 😑. However and this is a big HOWEVER. I have only been low carb for 2 years. I went low carb after receiving a CAC score. Prior to going low carb my LDL was always 100 or lower often in the 80’s and these #’s of course are all un pharmacologically derived. I have my lab work going back 15 years as I kept all my annual lab reports. So, I have deduced my CAC score was NOT from LDL but from damage I caused from 56 years of eating SAD. Since going Low Carb I have the trid and have then being keeping my LDL low by adding back carbs roughly 50 to 60 grams a day and now my LDL is around 140 versus 200 when I am less than 20 grams a day. Ok, here is my question. When I get my blood work all numbers are great. Low fasting glucose and insulin, high HDL 70 ish and low Triglycerides 42. A1C around 5.4 LPIR less than 25 etc. But my oxLDL and LpPla2 are high / outside of range. My theory and I am not a medical professional or a scientist 😊 is my LDL is oxidizing because of the glucose spikes I get when adding back carbs. Yes, I wear a CGM and will get 140 and 150 spikes when I eat the carbs. I am insulin sensitive because I go back to 95 after the carbs which I include with the meals just to get my LDL to under 200. I have tested this and my LDL averages around 140 if I have roughly 20 grams of carbs with each meal. So what are your thoughts? I am theorizing the glucose spikes are damaging my LDL and causing me to have high OxLdl. My next experiment is to go back low carb under 20 grams a day for two weeks and then test OxLDL. I am pretty sure my LDL will go above 200, my triglycerides will be in the 30’s and my HDL will be above 80. I have a BMI of 23. When I went Low carb 2 years again I went from a 34 waist to a 32 and now have all new clothes and not to be vain but effortlessly have 6 pack abs. Something I could NEVER achieve eating SAD and working out like crazy. I have never heard you or Dave put your brain power to glucose spikes possibly damaging LDL. If glucose spikes are damaging then I would NOT ADD BACK the carbs just to lower LDL. Thought 💭?
@nicknorwirtzPhD I applaud you for bringing this forward. Alas, I think the egos will not allow them to acknowledge they are flawed. It doesnt stop the message. This video is more about letting the public know than expecting any change from them. IYKYK. keep up the good work bud.
Maybe I do... Maybe I don't... either way, best to state I want to open the dialogue because it's true... whether or not I think certain people will actually be open to learning (and teaching humbly and open-mindedly)
Thank you for your presentations & for providing links to the papers. I asked another TH-camr to provide links to her cited studies. She gave me the excuse that she can’t because TH-cam frowns on this practice. She asked me to email her. I now assume she has nothing to back up her video presentation on hormones. Thanks for being honest & informative!
I'm guilty of believing the LMHR group was pushing high LDL-c was "ok". My fault. YES, agree no one is pushing or should be pushing it is ok. Agree, we don't yet know what we don't know. Agree with all things case by case, person by person.
Dr Nick, always enjoy your videos. Straight and to the point! Once you have solved all of the world's cholesterol problems 😉, would you consider doing a video on MTHFR? I recently found out I have the heterozygus gene mutation and am in the process of doing research. It's hard because there are very few people I trust to provide good information on this topic. You would be the perfect resource!
Thanks for engaging for those of us who are trying to be responsible for our own health and are searching for good-faith actors who are willing to question the eminence based community in a rigorous and respectful manner. Our nutritional and CVD models are manifestly flawed (the dramatic acceleration of obesity, diabetes , CVD etc.). It's the reluctance of many medical professionals to reexamine their theories and practices that causes patients like me to wade into the internet for alternatives. For civilians like me who have lost (and maintained ) weight, gained energy and experienced a greater sense of well being, the cognitive dissonance I experience with the advice from conventional medicine community seems worth it for now. My journey with keto has taught me that things are complicated, seldom black and white and that the hubris of believing you know the absolute truth is unhelpful and possibly dangerous.
"Thanks for engaging for those of us who are trying to be responsible for our own health and are searching for good-faith actors who are willing to question the eminence based community in a rigorous and respectful manner." -- WELCOME! ..."My journey with keto has taught me that things are complicated, seldom black and white and that the hubris of believing you know the absolute truth is unhelpful and possibly dangerous." -- GREAT LESSONS
Good video. I like that you point out, and are ultimately motivated by, the need for an accurate assessment of the pros and cons of carb restriction. The list of pros is getting pretty extensive, from mental health and bowel problems, to it's success reversing the conditions of the great epidemic of our times in obesity and metabolic syndrome. The primary con with respect to individual health has always been "but it might sometimes raise your LDL". People who are seeing benefit are rightly motivated to put that assumption under the microscope and tease out the intricacies with an open mind. The establishment response to that questioning strikes me as knee-jerk, irrational and anti-science as the examples you put forward demonstrate. It's evidence, in my mind, of some deeper ideological commitment being threatened.
I don’t even understand the debate. Let’s just say hypothetically that the lmhr cohort is at risk, what’s the solution? It’s obviously not the standard diet and pharmaceutical protocols because that’s clearly not working for the majority of people.
The debate is that there are a group of individuals that hate keto/carnivore and will deny any evidence of positive health outcomes from those dietary patterns. They will frame any study suggesting such as a scam and pseudoscience and any attempt to convey or discuss the nuanced science as grift. Basically, they think the LMHR phenotype, the Lipid Energy Model, and all of Nick and team's work and literature is made up, pseudoscience grift.
One sweet potatoe per day is ,apparently, sufficient to prevent ldl elevating further in lmhr's. The carbs would partially decrease ketogenesis and its therapeutic affects , though.
As a LMHR genotype, I have been cautious. While I am in ketosis for a significant portion of every 24 hour period; due to IF; during my feeding window, I eat significantly more carbs than someone on a ketogenic diet would. The results are Non-HDL: 214 HDL: 60 Trig: 100 So in my current state I don't match the phenotype, however, I am definitely the genotype and if I were on a strict ketogenic diet (rather than diurnally transitory keto), I'd be something like: Non HDL: 300+ HDL: >80 Trig:
@@nicknorwitzPhD yes, i realize that. More correctly stated, I am of a genotype (and have the environmental conditioning) that is compatible with expression of the LMHR phenotype. The evidence of this is that if I consume a strict ketogenic diet I have the triad, and I am able to accurately modulate the magnitude of the variables in the triad by varying my carbohydrate intake. My father was extremely lean so was my maternal grandfather. My son is 5'9" 108 lbs and I am 6'1" 135 lbs. I used to he on a high carb crap diet and my LDL was absolutely fine according to my doctor, but all my other markers were horrible. Now, on a low carb diet (~50g/day) every one of my other labs (besides non HDL cholesterol) are *perfect*.
Thanks for making this. It was very clarifying and I hope everyone watches it. I understand better your issues with Thomas Dayspring and for me, I hear nonstop that you and Dave have proved that Ken Berry is right and the idea that high cholesterol can be harmful is a lie (quoted from his best-selling book). I think it was an important clarification to hear you say that LDL can be associated with increasing risks of heart disease.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Yes, chapter 5 of his best-selling book leaves absolutely no doubt. He makes it clear higher is better. Here's just one quote: "the published fact that most patients who have a heart attack have a cholesterol level of less than 200." No mention of FH. Just mentions that it's a lie and we'll look back on the cholesterol theory of heart disease with shame and embarrassment.
@@PlantChompers Haven't read his book. If there is a video (esp from the past year) where he or Shawn or any major low carb influencer says explicitly "LDL doesn't matter" in heart disease and you can provide a link, I'm happy to try to be a voice of nuance and reason.
@@nicknorwitzPhD They're all over the Internet, no? They go further to say higher LDL is better. If you're up for a game of whack-a-mole, you can start with Chaffee. th-cam.com/video/fpiRxen9gNk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=G4bu5LKIzY8nRvPA
Great video. I'm not a lean mass hyper responder, but if I stayed on carnivore long enough, I probably would get there since a lot of my numbers are Pretty Close. I have a lot of patients Who I work with to help them with Weight loss and I go through their blood work to tell them where I think they can change things up. And what's going on with your body. Most doctors refused to do a fasting insulin and tell the person starts having prediabetes. I find this very annoying. You can have a great fasting, insulin and a great A1C. And your insulin Could be through the roof.
I find it shocking the number of people that think measuring glucose is a suitable proxy for insulin: they think low glucose means low insulin. How many of these people have good glucose/A1c and sky high insulin???
@@descai10 Many people are getting long term elevated insulin. That's the point. They are measuring good glucose but don't realise their insulin is often high, to keep glucose lower. Eating carbs (sugar) 6 times a day with meals and snacks is 6 spikes of both glucose and insulin. For most people that is constantly high insulin and that will catch up with them.
Hi Nick, thanks again for the clear-cut honest science backed debate. Rather, get my own " advice" and direction on health from those whom I came across in the last 3 years or so on TH-cam.Not the drug pushing intellectually lazy MD/GPS, including my own.This is a fact at least here in Europe. What percentage of Mds/ GPs will advise their patients who are metabolically sick to follow a low carbohydrate way of eating. Very, very few, so my own deduction is not sorry, but my own metabolic health is credited to me finding and looking for the minority of Mds/gps and scientists whoms options I share in my lifestyle and food consumption choice. Needless to say after following their science, my Hld/ tric ratio is better than optimal, also a zero cac score,and 10 kg lighter now. I fully understand that you and many others are obligationed to say quote: see your MD/GP for your own personal situation..unfortunately I have zero confidence in them..and as a lay person, I honesty feel that I am more informed in lipid profiling etc that them.
Maybe the problem is you cannot teach an old dog (Dayspring, for example) new tricks. I recently met with 3 different cardiologists in a hospital after experiencing a new (relatively minor) angina episode. I've been eating low carb and more animal-based for about 5 years, and the stricter I've become, the higher my cholesterol has risen. I'm lean and similar to an LMHR but not quite (LDL-C 250 mg/dL, HDL 55 mg/dL, Trigs 75 mg/dL). I did have a triple bypass in 2016. Now, 8 years later, all 3 cardiologists felt my current angina was from my elevated cholesterol. I introduced the LMHR concept to all 3 cardiologists. They weren't interested in hearing what I had to say but I told them anyway. I ended up getting a 64-Slice CT angiogram that revealed all my bypasses were open and clear. I sometimes wonder whether they found out about my good looking CT angiogram and what they thought of it. My guess is they never followed up to see and just moved on to their next patient, carrying on with their standard beliefs. I did get some feedback from my family doctor, however. He's more familiar with me than the other cardiologists because I've been his patient for about 10 years. He knows I don't take a statin and never will. He reviewed my CT angiogram results and agreed that they revealed my bypasses were all looking great. Then he said... are you ready for this?... he said I should take a statin to lower my cholesterol. Ouch! NOTE: The general consensus is that the angina I experienced was likely on old, "native" artery that was getting tight and blocking blood flow to a small region of my heart. The angina has gone away now, maybe on its own or in part because I am now taking baby aspirin and a low-dose beta blocker (which can help alleviate angina).
" I introduced the LMHR concept to all 3 cardiologists. They weren't interested in hearing what I had to say " ... that's unfortunate. Irrespective of what their perceptions might be, the fact that a patient walks away with the notion that his doctor's are close minded to learning more is... telling
@@nicknorwitzPhD Yes, it's "telling" and it's pretty darn common. And yet quite a few doctors I follow changed their entire paradigm of treatment simply because a single patient told the doctor what they did and the doctor listened. A few that come to mind are Dr. David Unwin, Dr. Brian Mowll, and Dr. Steven Gundry (patient Big Ed).
When it becomes about 'likes', 'shares' and 'views' and not about imparting a message. There are too many smart folks who started off in the right place but became ego driven 'personalities'
Love your content. To me a true scientist questions his current beliefs constantly and is always looking for evidence to contradict his beliefs. That's how knowledge grows. Anyone who doesn't do that loses my respect
Excellent video. You are probing for answers I have searched for for years. I would love to see Dave back on Peter Attia’s podcast (or you) to discuss the topic.
I was so engaged in the delivery and content of your argument that when finished I left the site dazzled but realized I’d forgotten to hit the thumbs up so I came back & did. You’re a warrior, man, of the truth and you bring the data & studies to support your assertions and counter arguments. It’s a beautiful thing. I’m counting on people like you to change the medical world for the better for us all if they don’t crush you first. They are coming at you and you did an excellent and bold job pushing back. Keep at it my friend and thank you for doing so.
Deeply appreciated!
@@aliciastanley5582 I agree Alicia
You make it so clear that only an MD can misunderstand it!
Funny. In all seriousness, I don't know how I can be more clear. I hope you found my "accusations" at 9:00 minutes and beyond well reasoned, if quite direct.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Paraphrasing, "Here's the published research; I've cited it for you more than once; you're not only ignoring it, you're claiming that it doesn't exist. Therefore, you're just flat wrong." How much more well-reasoned could you have been?
Laughed out loud.
Lame Norton isn’t a MD
@@robbanks1436 Yeah I was wrong LOL
Solid intro. Thanks for not wasting my time. The doctors making mistakes publicly, need to be called out and given a polite opportunity to retract or correct. And if they persist, they must be held accountable. Maybe create a LMHR Disinformation Hall of Shame.
"The doctors making mistakes publicly, need to be called out and given a polite opportunity to retract or correct. And if they persist, they must be held accountable." 100% agree.
Don’t quit Nick! We need doctors like you to explain this stuff. And yes ..we can learn more from doctors on TH-cam because our doctors don’t care to take the time to learn or want to bother to explain things to us. I have absolutely zero faith in mainstream medicine anymore.
Your frustration is long overdue and frankly surprising it's taken this long to surface. Don't allow these nay sayers get to you the work you do is so needed and appreciated. Only with clear verifiable and unbiased data can we learn and understand what the facts are. The false data is getting so bad that many people don't believe anything a MD has to say.
You are so right about that. My distrust for standard medicine has been growing in leaps and bounds as I see it reflecting more ignorance, corruption, and greed all the time. So very sad for our country. Yet, I still have hope but we all must speak out and confront them. We need a country-wide organization that represents medical patients on a whole range of issues with an education arm to make the public aware of things and organize those that have concern,a lobbying arm of keto and carnivore people and other Americans who want to see more transparency, functional doctors in insurance networks, naturopathic doctors, real supplement accountability, a quarterly magazine to educate members of our organization of new upcoming issues and old ones not adequately addressed. And more.
"getting so bad that many people don't believe anything a MD" ... that's - sorta' - what I'm so afraid of and pointing out ... when egos are so large they can't see their own clear misinformation, it gets called out, and discredits the community ... dangerous situation
This vid should be watched by everyone in medical school. What a great presentation. For me, as a non-scientist, non- medical person, such a presentation helps me spot and learn to identify the useless crap in arguments.
no way
Thank you. Appreciate it.
It wont be watched in medical school because its pseudoscience. In the end you should be glad that people actually saving your life when you get stroke/Heart attack or whatever due to poor life choices werent educated on pseudoscience.
Your integrity and clarity is sky high. Loyal to the scientific endeavor. Great work.
Thank you very much!!!
I actually think that his integrity is very suspect. He says nothing about all of the carnivore doctors that say that LDL-C is meaningless and cite LMHR as the justification for their proposition. I don’t think he’s a charlatan in the same way that they are but birds of a feather.
@@davidzip8841 why is Nick responsible for any of those folks? How does “Birds of a feather” apply when Nick takes bgreat pains to distinguish his view from others?
Regarding Dayspring and others mentioned here, this is human ego on full display. This represents the inability to backtrack and say, maybe I was wrong or what I believed was possibly wrong. The curiosity has left the building. To Nick and team, nicely done and very necessary.
Even those who are Dayspring fans can't deny his arrogance is a bit "much," and there are some examples here where he's clearly speaking as an expert on something he hasn't taken the time to properly research. That may sound arrogant coming from me, but for those who watch the video in full, I think it's undeniable. Doesn't mean he isn't smart and informed on other matters or in general, but... here... on this specific topic...
I’m content to let you scientists fight out the truth about LMHR’s and LDL. Thank you for your work. Meanwhile, I will continue to live my life in the healed condition from day-by-day agonising IBS (and many other issues) Fatty meat ,eggs and a little fish for me👍
I completely understand where you are coming from, per my commentary about my own background mentioned just after 9 min into this video and covered/disclosed elsewhere.
I went full Carnivore in December 2023 and I have lost 35lbs in 3 months to get to my target weight. I wanted to be healthy again and get away from Carbs. I am now off all my blood pressure meds, I feel young again. My Migraine headaches are gone and now I'm on a Keto Diet. My Doctor was concerned but she had been on a Keto diet for 3 years and understood. She wanted to do an EKG and blood work as she was concerned. I just went on Medicare and physicals are not a thing. So I have no idea what my numbers are but damn I feel good now. I wake up in the morning and feel like a million bucks. When I was eating the IC it diet I always felt lethargic. Once my Doc saw my blood pressure she told me to quit my meds. I'm happy and won't change a thing. 😄
That's an encouraging personal story for me Annette and congratulations on your success. That's a situation I can relate to personally having gone keto six months ago to address an IBS (SIBO) condition that developped as a result of a food poisoning instance. However, I have suffered a relapse of my symptoms three weeks ago, so I'm not completely out of the woods yet.
@@JesusMartinez-mk6fc I certainly don’t have all the answers and am forever ‘tweeting’ and experimenting with what I eat. I don’t think my gut is totally healed, but am sure I am more comfortable eating high fat / low fibre foods. I’ve spent years and years trying to discover why eating food ends up causing me gut pain, all the whole trying to eat ‘healthily’ according to nutrition advisors and guidelines. Good luck with your journey.
I respect people who say “I don’t know” because most of them will persevere in finding out. Science is all about finding out. I am intensely interested in learning more. Thanks NN.
You're welcome!
Keep it up, Nick!
Here is why. They're scared! A lifelong career in what you believed is wrong is a huge mountain to climb if motivated to do so.
As I battle with my PCP who thinks I'm going to drop dead of a heart attack despite all the metabolic improvements I have made. I think of her position being governed by protocols established with outdated studies, if she changes her position what are the liability implications of patients, insurance and big pharma contracts.
So keep it up! That mountain needs to be climbed! ❤
LMHR is a very specific phenotype for which high LDL may have a different implication. NN is not seeking to disprove the entirety of the lipidology field. This is a specific case. Many of you need to slow your roll.
I just dropped all my meds because my doctor is annoying and I don’t want to talk about it anymore. They don’t deserve my time or money. He’s fat and I’m not. Who should be telling who how to eat?
Fantastic job! Too many are "Don't confuse we with the facts! My mind is already made up!" and or their ego wont let them change their stance on the subject. If this video does not work, keep doing what you and Dave are doing and move forward and ignore the peanut gallery.
Yes! Thank you!
They will continue to attack you, you are young, intelligent, not willing to simplify follow, but actually have a scientific mind that looks for facts. This goes against their rules. Please stay strong, the world needs you and you are being an positive role model for others like you. At this point in human history when society has lost all trust in the medical profession, you are a ray of hope.
☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️
Absolutely brilliant Nick! Very nuanced, polite, yet challenging to detractors. Well done!
Thanks for this. And thanks for listening
You are a delight to listen to. This 73 year old ASD woman loves to geek out with you. I am carnivore with high ldl.
Well love that you love to geek out with me. Will never say no to that, irrespective of your dietary preferences :).
@@nicknorwitzPhD I help clients with metabolic health issues. I always send them your vids.
Thank you, Nick, for this Clear Restatement of your position and current science! Carry on!
I will carry on. People are finding surprisingly hard to beat down 😅
Its difficult to get someone to understand something when their job depends on them not understanding it.
I'm not sure I'd ascribe the intent to mislead to all these cases... in many I think it's as simple as ignorance. It's hard to know intent
Exactly!!!
Dr Nick, first and foremost, your presentation skills are quite incredible 👏🏽 I misclicked and ended up at this video, but I stuck around because the clarity of your explanations. Very impressive. LMHR doesn't apply to me as my LDL is in the late 50s (I've been whole foods plant based for years), but I do find the concept very interesting. It's a massive departure from traditional views on LDL, but ultimately what matters is not whether or not something makes peers happy/unhappy, but whether or not something is part of a quest for truth. Whilst I'll never be doing low carb myself, I do find the LMHR theory very interesting. I genuinely hope that further LMHR studies happen in the future 🙏🏽
It seems to me that jealousy makes people nasty. Keep it up Nicolas. You are doing excellent work.
Thank you very much!
Conversation and debate are not dead despite what you see in colleges. These individuals, Doctors, should be amenable to an open discussion regarding this very important topic. They are hiding in plain sight and it’s quite obvious why. Keep up the outstanding work. Thank you
Thank you for watching, evaluating and engaging openly and honestly
Kudos. You are encouraging intelligent, unbiased discussions in the hope it will lead to better health outcomes for both individuals and the general population.
Thanks 😊
Best video ever! Finally someone who stands up against the corrupt mainstream doctors! 👍👍
Glad you liked the video ☺️…
It is clearly corruption when doctors choose their easy paycheck from the drug companies over their patients lives.
People who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it
True
Great delivery of forward thinking arguments for the new sciences of cholesterol and lipidology. Keep presenting the data and studies, the medical world will be changing finally, and you will be one of the pioneers for this along with many others. Thank you for all the work you do!
Thanks a million
I have high HDL, high LDL, trig below 70, BMI 21. I am not worried about high LDL because on balance of all risk factors (obesity, high blood pressure, UPF intake, prediabetes - all now reduced/resolved) I would rather have high LDL than multiple other factors with a much higher association with CVD. My LDL is way up, but my blood pressure is way way down. Along with GERD, arthritis, sleep apnea, depression, psoriasis, all resolved.
Thank you for a science logic based argument. Excited to see your voice rise because you are greatly needed in this world.
More to come! And thanks!
You should have 10X more subscribers. Your content is far more grounded in intelligence, as well as critical , discerning, and nuanced thinking than anyone else in this space! You're pushing back at something that you said you're beginning to find frustrating. Well I find it (the willful ignorance and misleading and misinforming criticisms) infuriating. I am SO glad that someone of your intelligence and intellectual honesty is weighing in on this topic.
"You should have 10X more subscribers. Your content is far more grounded in intelligence, as well as critical , discerning, and nuanced thinking than anyone else in this space!" You're making my day!
I totally agree 100%! Nick is amazing and I'm so grateful to have found his channel.
An entirely logical response which is easy to follow and understand. Well done, Nick. I'm glad you took the time to produce this piece as it helps many who are influenced by this specific misinformation. The misinformation is resultant from either ignorance, ego, monetary reasons or a combination. But whatever the reason, it's harmful of them to mislead. I hope you keep us informed of any responses by those individuals. Thanks.
Appreciate this. It’s sounding like I achieved my goal and I hold out hope, especially for Layne and Dayspring
Thank you for such a clear and concise overview of the disperate position that your detractors have taken. It clearly show them up for what they are. Keep up the superb work you do.
Thank you kindly
Well-crafted address to set the record straight! I think I've watched every video on your channel. I appreciate your diligence and rigor!
Thank you so much :). I appreciate it!
This was awesome. Clear, to the point, unflinching. Much needed in this medical / industrial complex. Bravo!
You’re welcome
Recognizing the tremendous knowledge of the functional need of the human body for LDL, and how the levels of LDL respond to varying dietary and health factors, I believe that we should agree that LDL is a very important, indeed a critical component of overall health.
Thank you for what you’re doing. I worked in the medical industry for over 40 years, and saw exactly what your fighting against. Please don’t stop, we need to get the information out. ❤
You are my favorite nerd to watch & I watch a lot of them. You are engaging, respectful, knowledgeable and come across so genuine and educated. You know youre shit and you stand up for yourself against some major assholes (Layne). Thankful for your content! 👏🏽
Thanks 😊
A closed minded Doctor can be critically dangerous. Their egos are shameful. Thank you, Nick. Keep up the good fight!
🥊🥊🥊
Amazing video Nic! Sometimes a man has to do what he doesn't like but he does it because it's necessary. Congratulations! You've always been quite clear and nuanced in all your videos. This video was no exception and dare I say, you've taking it up quite a huge notch. This video is super clear, transparent and nuanced and a bulletproof response that draws the line on the sand to those opposing critics - most of which I've watched unfairly ridicule you - and that are not only perpetrating a disservice to the scientific community but to the advancement of learning and science. Keep up the groundbreaking work! 👏🏆👏
Appreciate that Jesus.
It's good to see this all in one place. I've bookmarked this one.
Sweet!
Such refreshing nuance and clear speaking and thinking.
Cheers
Finally someone honest and most importantly - non biased and prejudiced .
Appreciate it :).
Your research makes total sense. I wanted something to explain why my keto diet is producing high LDL and found you on TH-cam. My doctor wants me to take Statins again, where I said no because I want to know why it's high. I now see why and what to do to bring that level down. I will be adjusting my diet but will stay on a keto diet. Keep studying, great job.
Thank you for your research. May you be blessed.
Thanks! I feel that way most days
This might be my most liked post you have done.
Very clear on what your goal is and your view. And how a few doctors are either ignorant or are “well let’s say not being completely honest”.
Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it and thought it had value.
Great presentation and happy you kept your calm
Thanks... I wonder what % of viewers agree?
I’m glad you are keeping this. Attia seems to be misusing his position by simply parroting Dayspring. & it's obvious that Daysprimg is not listening. Hopefully they will see their errors, correct them, & move on.
Nope… he’s not listening 🙉
Stuff like this makes me appreciate how people like Dr Mike handle disagreement.
You gave us, in the past, how to eat and lower our ldl, which I appreciated.
I did. Thanks for noticing.
This is the kind of videos I want to see! Even better, if we could gather all these people in a room and make a podcast of the discussion. We understand the subject is nuanced and we have a lot of unknowns, however in a discussions between opposing forces the new research directions will be decided. Thanks for this video, I hope the people mentioned will respond to it in a meaningful and constructive manner.
I see people like NN and DF as explorers. Rather than denigrating them, real scientists should be cheering them on.
I agree… not that I’m biased or anything 😂
Hurts them to lose those easy kickbacks from big pharma. That corruption won’t fall easily.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Just keep doing what engineers do. Figure stuff out.
This is a very clear hypothesis; maybe that's why some doctors can't grasp it?
What if I make into a music video?
@@nicknorwitzPhD tiktok dances are popular with Doctors and nurses....
@@nicknorwitzPhDBe sure it doesn’t have more than 3 chords.
Thank you for the work y'all are doing, and for making the effort to inform us, which mainstream medical would never do!! I am a hyper-responder.
There are more and more LMHR (or there are more and more being noticed...)... awareness is generally good imho
I love your pursuit of truth. It comes across in your vids. This is the kind of world I want to live in where actual science drives the narrative. That said, there are those “professionals” with their version of truth which, I think, is more an expression of position, ego and righteousness than it is of observable facts and ground truth. We are seeing an upwelling of that in recent years.
Maybe the best way to deal with this is to just maintain YOUR position of truth and let those who resonate with truth find you, and let those who resonate with ego find them. Both are OK, but I just know the kind of world I want to live in.
Very nicely put
THANK YOU SOOOO much for this refreshing video!! I am one of your superfans!!!!
AWE! You're making my heart melt 😉
@@nicknorwitzPhD Is that a good thing for metabolic health?😜
@@sunshinemama9143 A molten heart... don't think so... is there a med for that?
You're winning. And it's obvious to all, lay, professional, does not matter. Slowly but surely, a massive paradigm shift is in motion and we're winning; humanity is winning. There's still a ton more to go, much more fighting, keep up the good fight.
Thanks! We need and will have our metabolic health revolution
Thanks for slowing down your speaking tempo. For us layman trying to learn it is helpful.
You are welcome
@@nicknorwitzPhDMostly for french people 😉
Love a classy clap back 😬🙌🏾
👏👏👏
Thank you for the work you are doing.
My pleasure!
This is a good video. Rational. Calmly presented. Nuanced. Subbed.
Welcome aboard!
all of this drama over something in which there are no guarantees. I truly appreciate your scientific curiosity Dr. Norwitz.
you're welcome!
If low carb sends TG and HDL in the right direction, it will NOT be far-fetched to assume the LDL is equally in the right direction. The problem arose because LDL has been labeled "bad cholesterol " by the medical community. The nuances in the case of LMHR should be considered. It is well-known that inflammation is at the root of many diseases including cardiovascular and metabolic ones. Does cholesterol, a saturated lipid, cause inflammation? Saturated lipids do not have bonds that enable reactions and hence unable to cause inflammation.
Interesting perspective. Dayspring hereby labels you “LDL Denier and Heretic”.
"The nuances in the case of LMHR should be considered." - With this, I agree fully.
We should ignore the last 100 plus years of science?
@@danielmccarthyy Actually Dayspring hasn't called me anything directly. He has historically avoided any engagements with me in any form. It's an interesting behavior pattern.
@@northerncoloradotransparen1454 Please elaborate.
I enjoyed your careful breakdown of exactly why the meme that doctor posted was inappropriate and does a disservice to anyone who sees it and society at large. It’s like I paid someone to articulate using only logic why I’m feeling a certain way
Thank you for treating this in a sane and logically consistent way. To be honest I've stopped listening to Layne after initially listening to his work intently. The loudness wasn't being helpful. So I'm instead going back to the papers and trying to read carefully.
Good for you! Hopefully you feel I can do better
Nuanced medicine doesn’t fit into a one size fits all treatment algorithm. Most docs really don’t understand this stuff to begin with and rely on treatment algorithms to come up with a plan.
Keep up the good work. Fan of your channel.
👏👏👏so good!! Grateful for your very important work!!
Thank you too!
Nick, Great video! Love your approach. LDL being part of a causal chain is supported by scientific studies is an accurate statement, and yet so so much more can be said and is yet to be understood. I think what is missing in so so much of this debate is an evolutionary biology perspective, and a broader perspective that goes beyond the lipid energy model. VLDL, LDL, HDL are fundamental to our physiology.. they are mechanistic in that they have roles to perform in a complex system for which the lipid energy model sheds some light on. LDL also plays a role in the immune system. LDL is also essential for ferrying "building blocks" of fat and cholesterol used in the construction of cell membranes. A discussion that limits LDL to just being part of a causal chain while accurate as you have carefully explained is and can be misleading. As you point out.. high LDL being a normal physiological response does not actually make it casual in any way. As a principle in the case of CVD and plaque we should be highly suspect of the idea that such a fundamental component like LDL which the body makes for so so many processes would in any way be the root of the problem.. or casual. I'm sure you will respond by correcting me with a definition of casual that I am not considering... but my point is that someone needs to start describing LDL in a very very different light.. because it does so so so much more than just participate in the energy lipid model and being part of the bodies repair response to damage in our arteries. I feel like we are still very much caught up in the false debate using the Fire and fireman analogy... People keep seeing firemen at the scene of a fire and then blame the firemen. While you are focused on an energy model, LDL is participating in a damage control model as well. It is participating in a construction model as well.. and there is really no discussion of that here about all those other models. I believe that in that repair process high LD may yet take on new meanings when considering that or immune response etc etc etc. No where do I here any discussion of oxidized LDL. Maybe consider broadening the discussion about full scope of LDL to respond to all the naysayers.. like Rhonda Patrick. Maybe they need to be educated about more than just LMHR and the lipid energy model...
Best video yet. Unfortunately, air tight, irrefutable spiciness in regard to many not willing to address new information is fully necessary.
Necessary but not sufficient
Thank you Nick! We support your selfless search for our optimal health while encountering the falsehoods & closedmindedness from obvious big pharma advocates. Keep up the awesome work!
Not sure on their motives. Could just be ignorance. Could be ego defense. Doesn’t really matter. Data and logic are data and logic
Thanks Nick appreciate your candor.
Always!
People who understand science understand you very well, I guess it is hard to change some rigid beliefs, especially if your career was based on that specific belief. You are doing an amazing job and keep doing what you are doing, facts are there, people will have to change their views or they will stay behind 😊
Amazing job Nick, regards from another LMHR.
Nick, I've met Dave a few times. He applies more caveats to his position than a teenager trying to explain a scratch on the family car!
I have been one of those Carnivores: "I don't care about My LDL. It was 200 when I was 19, and it's 250 now that I am low-carb. I am NOT a LMHR. My wife appears to be!" But she has a CAC of ZERO. And the doctor no longer threatens her with a statin (She is like 360+ LDL, normal weight, not low-carb, but usually in ketosis!).
Part of the problem... Doctors have lied to us about SO MANY THINGS. Our trust is gone. And as a layperson, I do see your results and I think "It doesn't matter... Blaming LDL for the plaque is like blaming firemen for fires, or scabs for cuts!"
But the more I listen, the more nuanced this becomes. It's almost like the message needs to be: "LMHRs: We don't know if it is safe. And even if our studies show that it is/might be... It does NOT say anything about High Cholesterol in NON-LMHRs. Or in unhealthy people eating a SAD diet. And it will PROVE NOTHING other than what the LIMITED data will show us for a small sample size of people!".
These studies are interesting because CONFUSION about why something isn't doing what you expect (think particle physics), it usually means you are on the verge of discovering something (a new particle, or in LMHRs... a different reason for LDL).
Finally, Malcom Kendricks has some numbers about statins. 30yrs of statins might add 2-3 days of extra life... Are they worth the side-effects?
"He applies more caveats to his position than a teenager trying to explain a scratch on the family car!" -- LOL!
I am a Lean Mass Hyper-Responders. My LDL 196 HDL106 Tri 32 Total testosterone 842 at almost 50 years old and I am in the best shape of my life. My metabolic biomarkers are optimal as well. I believe my results are not hurting my cardiovascular system and it is keeping me healthier. I have been practicing IF Restricted window 20 hours for over 4 years and I eat healthy fats and low carbs faithfully. I have changed my DNA expression/ epigenetics.
Super clear Dr N! Loving your work as always 😍 Haters always gonna hate.
Until you make them your fans 😉
@@nicknorwitzPhD 🥰
HAHAHA I love it - Science Waaar!!! But seriously its nice that you are trying to have a proper discussion.
Glad you enjoy it! More to come.
Chris McCaskill was having (yet another!) go (yesterday) at the (in his opinion) “limited” scope of your LMHR research study results / findings once again yesterday. This division of thought / belief / re LDL doesn’t seem to be going away anytime soon!
I like Chris as a person. He's coming from a different angle. I texted him this AM aim to follow by encouraging him to watch and engage on this video and the topics covered herein. I realize it's going to stir emotions, but I hope the net effect of the discussion that arises is productive. I am optimistic. I feel like I was direct, but fair.
@@nicknorwitzPhD That’s brilliant Nick. Let’s hope these silly social-media driven diet divisions and associated cherry--picked science data can be steadily outclassed by such courteous, intelligent debate.
Thanks for the video. I could understand it as a layman. Looking forward to more research on LMHR as I am on keto diet and fasting.
Nick I love your content , knowledge and N-1 experiments. To be brief I have been following you, Dave Feldman and all others in the LMHR community for the past 2 years. I myself am a LMHR, 58 years old with a CAC score. Ugh 😑. However and this is a big HOWEVER. I have only been low carb for 2 years. I went low carb after receiving a CAC score. Prior to going low carb my LDL was always 100 or lower often in the 80’s and these #’s of course are all un pharmacologically derived. I have my lab work going back 15 years as I kept all my annual lab reports. So, I have deduced my CAC score was NOT from LDL but from damage I caused from 56 years of eating SAD. Since going Low Carb I have the trid and have then being keeping my LDL low by adding back carbs roughly 50 to 60 grams a day and now my LDL is around 140 versus 200 when I am less than 20 grams a day. Ok, here is my question. When I get my blood work all numbers are great. Low fasting glucose and insulin, high HDL 70 ish and low Triglycerides 42. A1C around 5.4 LPIR less than 25 etc. But my oxLDL and LpPla2 are high / outside of range. My theory and I am not a medical professional or a scientist 😊 is my LDL is oxidizing because of the glucose spikes I get when adding back carbs. Yes, I wear a CGM and will get 140 and 150 spikes when I eat the carbs. I am insulin sensitive because I go back to 95 after the carbs which I include with the meals just to get my LDL to under 200. I have tested this and my LDL averages around 140 if I have roughly 20 grams of carbs with each meal. So what are your thoughts? I am theorizing the glucose spikes are damaging my LDL and causing me to have high OxLdl. My next experiment is to go back low carb under 20 grams a day for two weeks and then test OxLDL. I am pretty sure my LDL will go above 200, my triglycerides will be in the 30’s and my HDL will be above 80. I have a BMI of 23. When I went Low carb 2 years again I went from a 34 waist to a 32 and now have all new clothes and not to be vain but effortlessly have 6 pack abs. Something I could NEVER achieve eating SAD and working out like crazy. I have never heard you or Dave put your brain power to glucose spikes possibly damaging LDL. If glucose spikes are damaging then I would NOT ADD BACK the carbs just to lower LDL. Thought 💭?
@nicknorwirtzPhD I applaud you for bringing this forward. Alas, I think the egos will not allow them to acknowledge they are flawed. It doesnt stop the message. This video is more about letting the public know than expecting any change from them. IYKYK. keep up the good work bud.
Maybe I do... Maybe I don't... either way, best to state I want to open the dialogue because it's true... whether or not I think certain people will actually be open to learning (and teaching humbly and open-mindedly)
Thank you for your presentations & for providing links to the papers. I asked another TH-camr to provide links to her cited studies. She gave me the excuse that she can’t because TH-cam frowns on this practice. She asked me to email her. I now assume she has nothing to back up her video presentation on hormones. Thanks for being honest & informative!
You are so welcome! 🤗
I'm guilty of believing the LMHR group was pushing high LDL-c was "ok". My fault. YES, agree no one is pushing or should be pushing it is ok. Agree, we don't yet know what we don't know. Agree with all things case by case, person by person.
Good reply 😊😊😊
Thank you for all you do!
My pleasure!
Dr Nick, always enjoy your videos. Straight and to the point! Once you have solved all of the world's cholesterol problems 😉, would you consider doing a video on MTHFR? I recently found out I have the heterozygus gene mutation and am in the process of doing research. It's hard because there are very few people I trust to provide good information on this topic. You would be the perfect resource!
Very informative, and fair to tour detractors.
Glad you think so.
Thanks for engaging for those of us who are trying to be responsible for our own health and are searching for good-faith actors who are willing to question the eminence based community in a rigorous and respectful manner. Our nutritional and CVD models are manifestly flawed (the dramatic acceleration of obesity, diabetes , CVD etc.). It's the reluctance of many medical professionals to reexamine their theories and practices that causes patients like me to wade into the internet for alternatives. For civilians like me who have lost (and maintained ) weight, gained energy and experienced a greater sense of well being, the cognitive dissonance I experience with the advice from conventional medicine community seems worth it for now. My journey with keto has taught me that things are complicated, seldom black and white and that the hubris of believing you know the absolute truth is unhelpful and possibly dangerous.
"Thanks for engaging for those of us who are trying to be responsible for our own health and are searching for good-faith actors who are willing to question the eminence based community in a rigorous and respectful manner." -- WELCOME! ..."My journey with keto has taught me that things are complicated, seldom black and white and that the hubris of believing you know the absolute truth is unhelpful and possibly dangerous." -- GREAT LESSONS
Excellent and clear!
Glad it was helpful!
I needed this. I am up and down as to what to do with my extremely high LDL and ApoB I am this category for sure. My doctor is having a melt down.
Good video. I like that you point out, and are ultimately motivated by, the need for an accurate assessment of the pros and cons of carb restriction. The list of pros is getting pretty extensive, from mental health and bowel problems, to it's success reversing the conditions of the great epidemic of our times in obesity and metabolic syndrome. The primary con with respect to individual health has always been "but it might sometimes raise your LDL". People who are seeing benefit are rightly motivated to put that assumption under the microscope and tease out the intricacies with an open mind. The establishment response to that questioning strikes me as knee-jerk, irrational and anti-science as the examples you put forward demonstrate. It's evidence, in my mind, of some deeper ideological commitment being threatened.
The best way to argue is with facts. I commend your focus on facts and the betterment of science while ignoring the pettiness from these people.
"I commend your focus on facts and the betterment of science while ignoring the pettiness from these people" -- Thanks! Appreciate it. Try my best.
I don’t even understand the debate. Let’s just say hypothetically that the lmhr cohort is at risk, what’s the solution? It’s obviously not the standard diet and pharmaceutical protocols because that’s clearly not working for the majority of people.
The debate is that there are a group of individuals that hate keto/carnivore and will deny any evidence of positive health outcomes from those dietary patterns. They will frame any study suggesting such as a scam and pseudoscience and any attempt to convey or discuss the nuanced science as grift.
Basically, they think the LMHR phenotype, the Lipid Energy Model, and all of Nick and team's work and literature is made up, pseudoscience grift.
One sweet potatoe per day is ,apparently, sufficient to prevent ldl elevating further in lmhr's. The carbs would partially decrease ketogenesis and its therapeutic affects , though.
the majority of people don't actually follow the recommended diets, they eat the SAD diet
As a LMHR genotype, I have been cautious. While I am in ketosis for a significant portion of every 24 hour period; due to IF; during my feeding window, I eat significantly more carbs than someone on a ketogenic diet would.
The results are
Non-HDL: 214
HDL: 60
Trig: 100
So in my current state I don't match the phenotype, however, I am definitely the genotype and if I were on a strict ketogenic diet (rather than diurnally transitory keto), I'd be something like:
Non HDL: 300+
HDL: >80
Trig:
LMHR is not a genotype
@@nicknorwitzPhD yes, i realize that. More correctly stated, I am of a genotype (and have the environmental conditioning) that is compatible with expression of the LMHR phenotype. The evidence of this is that if I consume a strict ketogenic diet I have the triad, and I am able to accurately modulate the magnitude of the variables in the triad by varying my carbohydrate intake.
My father was extremely lean so was my maternal grandfather. My son is 5'9" 108 lbs and I am 6'1" 135 lbs. I used to he on a high carb crap diet and my LDL was absolutely fine according to my doctor, but all my other markers were horrible. Now, on a low carb diet (~50g/day) every one of my other labs (besides non HDL cholesterol) are *perfect*.
Thank you Nick, I am a LMHR. Doctor is going to give me Statin.
Excellent explanations, concise, with references and evidence. Exactly how good science should be discussed and conducted. Thanks Nick!
Appreciate it!
Thanks for making this. It was very clarifying and I hope everyone watches it. I understand better your issues with Thomas Dayspring and for me, I hear nonstop that you and Dave have proved that Ken Berry is right and the idea that high cholesterol can be harmful is a lie (quoted from his best-selling book). I think it was an important clarification to hear you say that LDL can be associated with increasing risks of heart disease.
Thanks for your words Chris. Question: can you actually point me to where Ken says that high cholesterol is never harmful?
@@nicknorwitzPhD Yes, chapter 5 of his best-selling book leaves absolutely no doubt. He makes it clear higher is better. Here's just one quote: "the published fact that most patients who have a heart attack have a cholesterol level of less than 200." No mention of FH. Just mentions that it's a lie and we'll look back on the cholesterol theory of heart disease with shame and embarrassment.
@@PlantChompers Haven't read his book. If there is a video (esp from the past year) where he or Shawn or any major low carb influencer says explicitly "LDL doesn't matter" in heart disease and you can provide a link, I'm happy to try to be a voice of nuance and reason.
@@nicknorwitzPhD They're all over the Internet, no? They go further to say higher LDL is better. If you're up for a game of whack-a-mole, you can start with Chaffee. th-cam.com/video/fpiRxen9gNk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=G4bu5LKIzY8nRvPA
@@nicknorwitzPhD I responded with a link but I guess TH-cam didn't like the link and deleted it?
T1 diabetics are legends. Calling you that isn’t defamatory 💪
;)
Great video. I'm not a lean mass hyper responder, but if I stayed on carnivore long enough, I probably would get there since a lot of my numbers are Pretty Close. I have a lot of patients Who I work with to help them with Weight loss and I go through their blood work to tell them where I think they can change things up. And what's going on with your body. Most doctors refused to do a fasting insulin and tell the person starts having prediabetes. I find this very annoying. You can have a great fasting, insulin and a great A1C. And your insulin Could be through the roof.
I do appreciate fasting insulin data...hard to "bio hack" if you don't "bio track"
I find it shocking the number of people that think measuring glucose is a suitable proxy for insulin: they think low glucose means low insulin. How many of these people have good glucose/A1c and sky high insulin???
from what I gather high insulin in the short term isn't associated with problems though, only long term elevated insulin is.
@@descai10 Many people are getting long term elevated insulin. That's the point. They are measuring good glucose but don't realise their insulin is often high, to keep glucose lower. Eating carbs (sugar) 6 times a day with meals and snacks is 6 spikes of both glucose and insulin. For most people that is constantly high insulin and that will catch up with them.
Hi Nick, thanks again for the clear-cut honest science backed debate.
Rather, get my own " advice" and direction on health from those whom I came across in the last 3 years or so on TH-cam.Not the drug pushing intellectually lazy MD/GPS, including my own.This is a fact at least here in Europe. What percentage of Mds/ GPs will advise their patients who are metabolically sick to follow a low carbohydrate way of eating. Very, very few, so my own deduction is not sorry, but my own metabolic health is credited to me finding and looking for the minority of Mds/gps and scientists whoms options I share in my lifestyle and food consumption choice.
Needless to say after following their science, my Hld/ tric ratio is better than optimal, also a zero cac score,and 10 kg lighter now.
I fully understand that you and many others are obligationed to say quote: see your MD/GP for your own personal situation..unfortunately I have zero confidence in them..and as a lay person, I honesty feel that I am more informed in lipid profiling etc that them.
Excellent discussion.
Cheers!
Maybe the problem is you cannot teach an old dog (Dayspring, for example) new tricks. I recently met with 3 different cardiologists in a hospital after experiencing a new (relatively minor) angina episode. I've been eating low carb and more animal-based for about 5 years, and the stricter I've become, the higher my cholesterol has risen. I'm lean and similar to an LMHR but not quite (LDL-C 250 mg/dL, HDL 55 mg/dL, Trigs 75 mg/dL). I did have a triple bypass in 2016. Now, 8 years later, all 3 cardiologists felt my current angina was from my elevated cholesterol. I introduced the LMHR concept to all 3 cardiologists. They weren't interested in hearing what I had to say but I told them anyway. I ended up getting a 64-Slice CT angiogram that revealed all my bypasses were open and clear. I sometimes wonder whether they found out about my good looking CT angiogram and what they thought of it. My guess is they never followed up to see and just moved on to their next patient, carrying on with their standard beliefs. I did get some feedback from my family doctor, however. He's more familiar with me than the other cardiologists because I've been his patient for about 10 years. He knows I don't take a statin and never will. He reviewed my CT angiogram results and agreed that they revealed my bypasses were all looking great. Then he said... are you ready for this?... he said I should take a statin to lower my cholesterol. Ouch! NOTE: The general consensus is that the angina I experienced was likely on old, "native" artery that was getting tight and blocking blood flow to a small region of my heart. The angina has gone away now, maybe on its own or in part because I am now taking baby aspirin and a low-dose beta blocker (which can help alleviate angina).
" I introduced the LMHR concept to all 3 cardiologists. They weren't interested in hearing what I had to say " ... that's unfortunate. Irrespective of what their perceptions might be, the fact that a patient walks away with the notion that his doctor's are close minded to learning more is... telling
@@nicknorwitzPhD Yes, it's "telling" and it's pretty darn common. And yet quite a few doctors I follow changed their entire paradigm of treatment simply because a single patient told the doctor what they did and the doctor listened. A few that come to mind are Dr. David Unwin, Dr. Brian Mowll, and Dr. Steven Gundry (patient Big Ed).
When it becomes about 'likes', 'shares' and 'views' and not about imparting a message. There are too many smart folks who started off in the right place but became ego driven 'personalities'
Love your content. To me a true scientist questions his current beliefs constantly and is always looking for evidence to contradict his beliefs. That's how knowledge grows. Anyone who doesn't do that loses my respect
Much appreciated!
Excellent video. You are probing for answers I have searched for for years. I would love to see Dave back on Peter Attia’s podcast (or you) to discuss the topic.
I think it will happen...
Thank you for all you do , I loved this video 😊
So glad!