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The Grimtooth books have been an invaluable resource for several of my campaigns. Even if people don't use the traps precisely as written, they're good for madcap idea generation.
I'm pretty surprised that you liked the unbreakable staff puzzle. It seems like something that is difficult to learn more about unless you trigger the "rocks fall, everyone dies" moment. I would probably describe some destroyed columns throughout the room, highlighting the lack of support for the ceiling.
What I would probably do it when the players try to yank the staff out, have the ceiling shift slightly and have some dust fall around the corners. I think the staff being stuck at all is a pretty major clue that the ceiling is pressing on it.
Another possible clue would be to reveal cracks in the ceiling and floor at the ends of the staff from all that weight being concentrated into such small points.
I've liked this one since the release of Resident Evil, personally - especially if I have a player or character named Jill to throw in there for the Jill Sandwich.
My personal favourite Grimtooth traps are the ones that mess with the players preconceptions, like the "CLICK!" trap and the "Mapper Maddener". The ones made to deal with players, whose only reaction to a door is to kick it, are also cool.
This is really fun: looking at legit old-school traps from a modern/OSR perspective. I love Grimtooth, and while I have never actually used any of his traps, now I think I see why. Time to dust off the ol' books and make some notes. Rate as many of Grim's traps as you want, Ben. All of them! We'll watch!
I kinda liked the lobster trap, there are some janky bits. But it wouldn`t take much to turn into something really fun. Add few locked doors in the bottom hole and the key into whatever the top space is. Turn it into some sort of dungeon conveyer system with cages and containers dangling in chains from a ceiling rail. Fill the room with gas so the force field is obvious. KEEP THE LOBSTERS. Use all of the above and lobsters have escaped from one of the containers :D Good material in a book is something that at least gives ideas to springboard off from and this one definitely did that for me.
Always thought it'd be fun to let the players come across the Goblin Clean-up crew resetting a trap - that's how I'd use the too deadly to use ones. Also blood puddles, smears, soot burns and scraped floors aren't detailed in the traps but many can be described as warnings for the Players
I had this book as a kid. I loved it. You have to take into account that D&D back then was much more DM vs players. It was not the collaborative storytelling game of today.
Great video! I used to own the original Grimtooth's books, and I currently own the Ultimate Traps Collection. Bear in mind that Grimtooth is the Grandmaster Architect of *Death Traps*, and so they are designed to dispatch pesky delvers quickly and efficiently....with an absolute minimum of fairness! I've honestly never seen them as traps to be actually used as written in play, but they are immense fun for any DM to peruse and imagine using! >:) And they provide a huge amount of inspiration for your own trapsmithing.
The thing is, if you really think about how traps are meant to be implemented... They're supposed to stop people from getting at valuables, not inconvenience them... Granted, we as DMs and players don't like those kinds of traps because they ruin the fun as save or die scenarios... This book definitely has some good ideas in it and I want to actually design a few traps myself because of it.
The hallway with the pit trap and glass wall is funny. If you don't like a trap for being too deadly - just nerf it. It reminds you that you need more ball bearings in traps.
I always took Grimtooth stuff to be like, "Hey, neat idea, let me jiggle that a little till it becomes an actually good scenario." I got the "Tome" and just flipping through it is pretty hilarious. But ya, very few are good to go as-is but I would still rate it a solid 4/5 just for the weird ideas.
I think a lot of these traps could be made to work really well with just some adjusting. Except the first one I don't think any of them are really truly terrible. They're all at least interesting in some way.
Grimtooth's Traps has a very specific approach, which is quite different from a DM. Grimtooth's are not books on how to build things as a DM. He wants to KILL the party. The whole idea is to get rid of them for good. And they are "fantasy realistic". Personally, I would build some of those in my dungeon if I had a few centuries to live and the resources to cater to a slight sadistic mindset. It would make the characters' plundering annoying but still amusing and in the end, I would not lose anything... Many DMs conceive traps that are "too easy" to overcome. Why? Because they are basically "pro characters" and that is as it should be. However, the owners of the dungeon are not "pro characters" they have no reason at all to build traps with an inbuilt way of escape. Such would be foolish, stupid and a waste of time and energy. Frankly, some traps in there are much more "realistic" than most of the stuff in official modules... Those are books to read for fun and to cater to the DM's darker side. Almost all traps in the books can be brought to DM' use quite easily. Simple things like the traps can be in bad repair or have a basic fault in construction. The infamous wheel trap - the barrels could have dissolved due to the acid in them - the first wheel could be bigger to fit the corridor exactly thus it can not roll over things can be stopped by a dagger on the floor etc...
I think the third one, the Spring-Trap with the fake spike-pit is kind of fun though. You just have to do a better Job of telling your players, that something is not right. For example you could NOT hide the spikes on the ceiling.. the moment the players see those, they're going to wonder why spikes have been placd there and maybe conclude that there is something off about this. Also, a perceptive character might notice that there is a layer of dust floating above the spike-pit.. as the pit isn't real and i don't assume that these dungeons are very tidy. On the other hand the same perceptive character might notice that there is NO dust on the walkways to the sides, because springing the trap would probably kind of wipe them clean. Another hint you could build in, would be that the ceiling spikes are sullied with blood, while the fake spikes on the ground aren't, which could also give away, that the spikes on the ceiling are the real danger here.
I think the utility of Grimtooths Traps is how it sparks the imagination. I wouldn't use *any* of them as is, but as an illustrated guide on how to use springs, levers, and other basic mechanisms to create your own traps, it's excellent!
Hey, Ben I enjoyed this video, and I have a suggestion. What about having your viewers send in traps they've designed. Then you can pick some of them, and you can give feedback. There may be some treasures, and there may be some funny submissions.
A lot of these traps work better with a bit of signposting. A trap that comes out of nowhere and kills the PCs will only elicit a response of "well that's BS". Whereas a good trap leaves clues to its presence (and deadliness), such that if the PCs succumb to the trap, the player can only say "Oooooh, _that's_ what that was".
I don't think they were really intended as guides. They took a common dungeon trope to the extreme for comedic effect. I remember buying each volume as it came out, but never even contemplating using them in my game. We all got a chuckle from reading them, though. It might be fun to make a DCC-style funnel consisting of traps from the series, however. I'd just be sure to tell my players up front and wouldn't attempt more than a 1-shot.
I've had 1 and 2 on my shelf for ages. Mike Stackpole was a huge contributor to Flying Buffalo back in the 70s and 80s, and has gone on to do a lot of cool stuff since then. He still associates with them and supports the products he wrote (Mercenaries, Spies, and Private Eyes). Re: Grimtooth's traps - I agree - a lot of traps, as written, are things I'd never use (nor have I), but the value I get from these books are the ideas from which I can build upon. Thanks for your review, looking forward to the next!
Great teaching video! Really makes concrete through example the principles that make up a "good" or "bad" trap when used in a game. It's too easy to make a trap that would be realistically quite effective at killing/maiming intruders. But we're playing a game here! Let's keep it fun and creative.
Actually, you know where some of these might work? Like James Bond-esque sci-fi. Like, that Giant Lobster Trap is straight out of Moonraker. And the levers and the invisible force fields could be super-science effects. Moreover, the levers could have wiring or other mechanical indicators that could require a skill check. "You realize that the lever is also the only thing keeping the force field in place."
If you're looking for balanced traps in a Grimtooth's Traps, look elsewhere. It's more an exercise in what could be, not what should be, and a look back at the adversarial relationship reflected in Tomb of Horrors.
Oh I love grimtooth's traps! Read through every issue. Most of them are so convoluted you can't help but laugh, if you manage to understand them at all that is. They're great inspiration but probably awful to run in-game. Can't wait for the next video on them!
Such a great review! I would love to see a review of another Grimtooth's Traps book. I can see the traps as usable if they are altered significantly such as the examples you are suggesting. I do think some of the traps in Grimtooth's Traps are creative but they clearly would need some revising to be usable. Agreed, I like to give players a fighting chance with traps. If they die in a trap it should be because they did something rash and/or dumb. Oh and yes, it's the same Michael Stackpole who is the SW writer. He wrote for Flying Buffalo first.
Re Michael Stackpole: I don't know if it's the same one that wrote for Star Wars, but it's certainly the same one that wrote an essay in defense of RPGs in the time of the Satanic Panic.
With the fishing pole trap, I would stick a ledge or platform on the other side of the body of water, just beyond the coral. That way, if a player is clever, they can let go of the pole as they're being whipped around, using the momentum to land on the other side.
I remember the old Grimtooth's Traps for my 2e days and I am happy to see its return. I always found I have to do some TLC on them but overall I found them to be a nice source of inspiration that could be easily modified.
Hey, what are your thoughts on the rules provided in ch 8 of the dmg about attacking and destroying objects and being able to destroy traps out of combat or even destroy enemy weapons in combat?
I had this book for a while but never really read it. Having you recommend a couple cool traps from it is even better than reading it myself, so thank you!
Fun video - I picked up this book a while back - I think at the last in person Gary Con - as a fun/joke read, but I think with a bit of tweaking some of these might actually be useable! The Bigger they come, for instance you could set a weight limit to what the rock could hold and set up a situation where the PCs need to decide the order they climb, knowing that the heavy armored characters as the most likely to drown, but also the most likely to pull the rock down possibly killing the group. Or put this near the exit of the dungeon with the PCs being chased and carrying large bags of treasure. How do they get it to the top without setting off the trap, and can they use the giant rock to stop/kill whatever is chasing them?! Of course some of these are just silly and weird but maybe a few gems could be mined. Thanks!
4:26 - Illusion trap, I would add these: - 2d4 coins "float" upon the fake spikes, at ground level. - Blood is dripping from the sides ceiling, staining the floor. No clear origin. Adding some contrasting information should give the players enough material to reflect upon their moves.
Great video! You have convinced me to give Grimtooth's a second look; I had always written it off as merely a joke book for put-upon DMs. Also, Michael Stackpole is *also* the author of "Game Hysteria and the Truth" and "The Pulling Report", works aimed at debunking the "Satanic Panic", B.A.D.D. and the claims of Patricia Pulling.
I'm surprised you disliked the spike pit one so much. To me, that's a great example of a trap which is solved by intuition on the purpose of traps. The players can reasonably intuit from this that not something must not be as it appears, because an obvious trap with an obvious bypass is of no danger to anyone. A random pit of spikes in a major corridor, in plain sight, with a clear way to safely sidle around said pit, is useless as a trap. Even if edges were narrow and hard to traverse, the inhabitants of the dungeon would be hindered just as much as an invader. It is reasonable to guess from this that the obvious path is probably the real trap, and there must some other easy way to move past it.
I would love to hear how different DM's present traps to the players. What information is freely shared to set the trap situation, what is held back lightly, pending player exploration, and letting the trap be deadly but avoidable. I feel the same way about presenting encounters.
Just a reminder of why none of the Grimstooth's Traps books (of which there were what? four or five?) are in my gaming collection. The traps are largely impractical and really only suited for a "Disneyland" dungeon, rather than a realistic environment which required effort and money to construct. The "ha-ha, you're all dead!" aspect of most of the traps doesn't reflect a healthy DMing style, either. ='[.]'=
Ah, awesome. Big fan of Grimtooth. I think it would be fine to use many of these straight in a situation where you had multiple easily generated low backstory PCs per player, multiple more or less expendable hench & hires, extensive dungeoneering gear and a decent amount of utility magic, including consumables. That all describes a lot of 1e games! A DCC funnel or similar would also be a nice place for these. RIP, baldy, grug, grug's brother, and curly joe.
I have a copy of Grimtooth's Traps, Grimtooth's Traps Too, Grimtooth's Traps Fore, Grimtooth's Traps Ate, and Grimtooth's Traps Lite. I've never used any of those traps, and own the books purely for entertainment purposes. Some of them are just too fantastic or bizarre, however, they are inspiring for creating my own realistic traps in my games.
The thing with death traps is... if a GM want's to kill players, they can. The real skill is to put the players in danger of dying but let them live if they are clever enough. The first question any GM MUST ask themselves when making a death trap that can kill the whole party is "Am I ok with this being the LAST game in this campaign?" Because a full party wipe WILL end your campaign most times...
It IS the same Michael Stackpole that is the Star Wars writer. He got his start at Flying Buffalo, publisher of Grimtooth's Traps and Tunnels & Trolls.
Please do look at more of Grimtooth! I have a huge soft spot for these books as Grimtooth's Traps Too was the first RPG product I ever bought, back in the 80's. Most of the traps are silly, and fun to read about but completely unusable in most games. I did find out however that if you as the GM bring a Grimtooth book to a session, the players become ultra careful, even if you haven't actually included a trap in the game.
Ben, I totally agree on traps being less gotcha and more puzzle. The occasional “death trap” is ok but only if the party has an expectation like they know they’re going into the dungeon of the mad wizard who lays bizarre and deadly traps for would be looters. Even provide descriptions from failed adventurers whose parties were wiped out, or they find sprung traps with the unfortunate still in it. Set up a dangerous situation but provide the agency the players need to make decisions to try and get out. Also, the Flint Golem trap is spectacular
I had the original version of this book back in the day. As a 14 year old boy, I thought it was genius. I picked up the new expanded version about two years ago. As an adult, with many years of gaming behind me, I found it to be mostly silly. But with modifications, as you suggested, it can be useful or at least inspirational.
The purpose of these trap books from the 1980s is not comedy, but death. They come from an era of high player character mortality. These traps in this era are seen as too over the top or adversarial. The point of Grimtooth's was this; If you come into my dungeon to steal my stuff and you're not clever, you deserve what you get. So, come on you smart clever adventurers, you can survive all these lame traps, right?
I think traps are difficult to use sometimes. I would never use an insta-kill trap unless it was heavily foreshadowed. Certain traps seem strange in the context of a Thief/Rogue or whatever trap-finding characters like the Flint monster- boiling oil trap. A player would need to take additional actions to roll disarm trap in that context. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
I like the flint golem one, but it's a bit too easy to deal with - simply retreat and ignite the room from a safe distance - unless you use the old "door locks behind you" trick which is really a little overdone. What would really make this one interesting is to have a combustible treasure of some kind - like a bunch of valuable scrolls - stored in the room and visible/known to the players prior to entering, so they have a strong incentive to NOT set fire to the room. The amphitheatre one is another fun one - you could set it up so it won't budge unless at least two or three party members have entered the room. This gives the players a way out - they can avoid unbalancing the room by crossing it one by one - but it depends heavily on whether the second/third member passes their reflex save to retreat (upon feeling the floor shifting) before they tip the whole thing over! And in defense of Stackpole, I think the teetering rock is actually kind of fun. It's not strong enough to hang an entire room on (haha), but as part of a larger setup, it could be interesting. Note the shark in the image - players could make use of the rock as a tool to defeat an enemy; making them feel like they've done something clever is always good.
I really like Grimtooth's tarps, seeing my favorite trap "Illusions" only getting a 2/5 is a bit sad, I mostly like this trap because the players see a spike pit and will be notified that something is wrong here, I ran this trap a few times on diffrent groups of players and it always had diffrent results whether it was the players finding out it was an illusion by accidentaly dropping a rope "into" the pit, activating the trap just for fun/recklessness or climbing across the wall over the spring loaded ground. I can understand and agree with the other ratings and would really enjoy seeing more trap reviews of any kind.
I managed to curse a player with the Idiot’s Vase. The player broke the vase, failed an Int save took and 6 points of Intelligence damage. It was the first trap in the dungeon, and it made for great role play with her animal companion who was now more intelligent than her. 🐕🧠
I love these traps. Though most of the stranger/cooler ones I find a little hard to put into castles or other overland buildings. EDIT: At 11:40-11:50 Trap, I would put it in some cove where the players have the chance to fish for treasure.
I could see the lobster trap working if the wall was obvious (eg. tinted glass instead of a force field). I'd add some railing on the ceiling to show the cage can be pulled horizontally across the room, but once the players figure that out, I'd just let them go. I like the idea of the lever, but I agree there's not enough clues there. Perhaps the wall could have grooves into which it would slide up, and I would tell the players about those right away. What do you think?
This is a book of humorous traps for wicked GMs to read and chuckle at but not necessarily to actually use in play. The idea is they are cruelly ingenious and I have heard gamers laugh out loud reading this (in a good way), so mission accomplished.
I like the illusionary spike pit trap; I think it's actually the best one you showed. The idea is that it is way too obvious that something will happen if you try to go around the "spike pit". Why would you have a spike pit if you can simply walk around it - that's the signpost. The gimmick is that players would already suspect that there are hidden mechanisms that causes them to fall into the spike pit - but they would never expect a mechanism indented to smash them into the ceiling. That's the clever bit. The main difficulty with the trap is not lack of signposting, but rather that once they discover the smash ceiling trap mechanism - it's still not obvious that the spike pit is an illusion. It would make more sense if spring came out from the side knocking into the pit. So it's very hard to figure that out, but if a player manages to solve it just by wit, that one out it would really epic. Players might also want to try to engineer other ways to get across the "spike pit"; like shooting a grappling hook or a rope with a crossbow or something - the clever bit here is that they think they will die if they fall, but instead they would just fall on the floor with not significant consequences - and that would be hilarious. If you use illusions then it's always good idea to also add some "blablabla of true sight" somewhere the dungeon; players have a chance to skip the room then revisit every room it later.
I feel like almost all of these 'traps' would actually have some benefit if they were each given a potential win condition. A trap should always have some way to 'beat' it, that's the fun of figuring out the gimmick and being able to overcome the challenge. I personally like to think of at least one primary method of success, and if the players come up with something else then kudos to them.
Ah, yes. I once adapted several of these for a short dungeon which consisted solely of traps that guarded an artifact of good until it was needed. Unfortunately the people who made the dungeon had died out and no one knew how to get through it. The players were aware what they were going into, and I made a point of giving every trap a "solution" so someone who knew what they were doing could have got through without trouble. The players got through without any deaths thanks to clever play, though one player came *very* close with a nasty trap involving an underwater section and an "air" pocket.
The one that got away is my favorite Grimtooth trap. It is just so funny xD. But I would only use it in a game where the players now that it's all about ridiculous traps.
i would love to see ore videos like this going over traps. i have the grimtooth's book, but its hard to tell what should go into a game and what wouldnt work, since theyre all so crazy. im definitely using that flint golem one, though. thats just awesome :D
The Rock Tipping Trap could be funny if it was a wooden structure that collapses to fall in that the players can use the flotsam as a raft. You could fill the wood structure with something fun for the party to deal with as they try to escape (i.e. water snakes or something).
I really liked this video. Reading through these ridiculous traps is always fun and hearing someone else's opinions is quite useful in how to use and better design dangerous puzzles and fun traps.
Seems like the mindset for this book is, DM as antagonist. I don't like it. But there are a couple of decent traps in here. I like the flint golem and burning oil one. But I definitely disagree with you on the fishing rod one.
The portals are superfluous in that trap. I've seen much better use of portals in setting up perpetual motion in a trap (like a giant ball rolling down an incline over and over).
My favorite of the Grimmtooth's traps was the one for parties that use hirelings to test all the traps. The hireling opens the chest, and the wall rotates. The hireling ends up with a path outside with some treasure, and the party gets a large monster to punish them.
I could watch Ben review these all day; hyped for the next one. Goodman Games put out a DCC module relatively recently called Grimtooth's Museum Of Death that struck me as a great dungeon of evil Grimtooth traps.
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The Grimtooth books have been an invaluable resource for several of my campaigns. Even if people don't use the traps precisely as written, they're good for madcap idea generation.
Really enjoying this format where you go over each trap and explain if they are good or not, why and how would you change it.
agreed!
I'm pretty surprised that you liked the unbreakable staff puzzle. It seems like something that is difficult to learn more about unless you trigger the "rocks fall, everyone dies" moment.
I would probably describe some destroyed columns throughout the room, highlighting the lack of support for the ceiling.
What I would probably do it when the players try to yank the staff out, have the ceiling shift slightly and have some dust fall around the corners. I think the staff being stuck at all is a pretty major clue that the ceiling is pressing on it.
Another possible clue would be to reveal cracks in the ceiling and floor at the ends of the staff from all that weight being concentrated into such small points.
I've liked this one since the release of Resident Evil, personally - especially if I have a player or character named Jill to throw in there for the Jill Sandwich.
My personal favourite Grimtooth traps are the ones that mess with the players preconceptions, like the "CLICK!" trap and the "Mapper Maddener". The ones made to deal with players, whose only reaction to a door is to kick it, are also cool.
This is really fun: looking at legit old-school traps from a modern/OSR perspective. I love Grimtooth, and while I have never actually used any of his traps, now I think I see why. Time to dust off the ol' books and make some notes.
Rate as many of Grim's traps as you want, Ben. All of them! We'll watch!
I kinda liked the lobster trap, there are some janky bits. But it wouldn`t take much to turn into something really fun.
Add few locked doors in the bottom hole and the key into whatever the top space is.
Turn it into some sort of dungeon conveyer system with cages and containers dangling in chains from a ceiling rail.
Fill the room with gas so the force field is obvious. KEEP THE LOBSTERS.
Use all of the above and lobsters have escaped from one of the containers :D
Good material in a book is something that at least gives ideas to springboard off from and this one definitely did that for me.
Those are some good changes.
The lobsters are a consistent encounter through the series. Apparently the editors really loved the idea, or at least thought the Troll should.
I have this book from the early 90s. As a little kid I used to love just looking through it.
Perfect timing-I’m stuffing Trollskull Manor from Dragonheist with all kinds of Kobold traps (Home Alone in the Addams Family mansion vibes)
Always thought it'd be fun to let the players come across the Goblin Clean-up crew resetting a trap - that's how I'd use the too deadly to use ones.
Also blood puddles, smears, soot burns and scraped floors aren't detailed in the traps but many can be described as warnings for the Players
This was really interesting! I would love to hear your opinions on the traps in the other sections of the book!
I had this book as a kid. I loved it.
You have to take into account that D&D back then was much more DM vs players. It was not the collaborative storytelling game of today.
Yes please!! make more of this :)
Thank you:)
Would love to see more Grimtooth
Great video! I used to own the original Grimtooth's books, and I currently own the Ultimate Traps Collection. Bear in mind that Grimtooth is the Grandmaster Architect of *Death Traps*, and so they are designed to dispatch pesky delvers quickly and efficiently....with an absolute minimum of fairness! I've honestly never seen them as traps to be actually used as written in play, but they are immense fun for any DM to peruse and imagine using! >:) And they provide a huge amount of inspiration for your own trapsmithing.
The thing is, if you really think about how traps are meant to be implemented... They're supposed to stop people from getting at valuables, not inconvenience them... Granted, we as DMs and players don't like those kinds of traps because they ruin the fun as save or die scenarios... This book definitely has some good ideas in it and I want to actually design a few traps myself because of it.
The hallway with the pit trap and glass wall is funny. If you don't like a trap for being too deadly - just nerf it. It reminds you that you need more ball bearings in traps.
Excellent stuff. I'd also be interested in your reaction to some of the traps in The 3rd edition Book of Challenges.
The oil and golem one is great
Make a video about Brent Newhall 1 page RPG Dungeon Delvers if you can. I would love to see your opinion of it.
I always took Grimtooth stuff to be like, "Hey, neat idea, let me jiggle that a little till it becomes an actually good scenario." I got the "Tome" and just flipping through it is pretty hilarious.
But ya, very few are good to go as-is but I would still rate it a solid 4/5 just for the weird ideas.
Are these meant to be used, or are these meant to be found as diagrams in your villain's lair?
A Stackpole trap that doesn't involve exploding a 'Mech? No sir.
Love this series!
I think a lot of these traps could be made to work really well with just some adjusting. Except the first one I don't think any of them are really truly terrible. They're all at least interesting in some way.
Wait, so I shouldn't follow all these exactly to the letter? Oops...
I think at least some of these were actually meant to be used. Back when the expected average IQ was this side of the bell curve.
Grimtooth's Traps has a very specific approach, which is quite different from a DM. Grimtooth's are not books on how to build things as a DM. He wants to KILL the party. The whole idea is to get rid of them for good. And they are "fantasy realistic". Personally, I would build some of those in my dungeon if I had a few centuries to live and the resources to cater to a slight sadistic mindset. It would make the characters' plundering annoying but still amusing and in the end, I would not lose anything...
Many DMs conceive traps that are "too easy" to overcome. Why? Because they are basically "pro characters" and that is as it should be. However, the owners of the dungeon are not "pro characters" they have no reason at all to build traps with an inbuilt way of escape. Such would be foolish, stupid and a waste of time and energy. Frankly, some traps in there are much more "realistic" than most of the stuff in official modules...
Those are books to read for fun and to cater to the DM's darker side. Almost all traps in the books can be brought to DM' use quite easily. Simple things like the traps can be in bad repair or have a basic fault in construction.
The infamous wheel trap - the barrels could have dissolved due to the acid in them - the first wheel could be bigger to fit the corridor exactly thus it can not roll over things can be stopped by a dagger on the floor etc...
I think the third one, the Spring-Trap with the fake spike-pit is kind of fun though. You just have to do a better Job of telling your players, that something is not right. For example you could NOT hide the spikes on the ceiling.. the moment the players see those, they're going to wonder why spikes have been placd there and maybe conclude that there is something off about this.
Also, a perceptive character might notice that there is a layer of dust floating above the spike-pit.. as the pit isn't real and i don't assume that these dungeons are very tidy.
On the other hand the same perceptive character might notice that there is NO dust on the walkways to the sides, because springing the trap would probably kind of wipe them clean.
Another hint you could build in, would be that the ceiling spikes are sullied with blood, while the fake spikes on the ground aren't, which could also give away, that the spikes on the ceiling are the real danger here.
I think the utility of Grimtooths Traps is how it sparks the imagination. I wouldn't use *any* of them as is, but as an illustrated guide on how to use springs, levers, and other basic mechanisms to create your own traps, it's excellent!
I use the Click Plate exactly as written. And I try not to laugh my ass off every time it works.
Hey, Ben
I enjoyed this video, and I have a suggestion. What about having your viewers send in traps they've designed. Then you can pick some of them, and you can give feedback. There may be some treasures, and there may be some funny submissions.
great idea, Id love to see more useful and clever traps
@@ppdrro I learned how lame some of my traps are with this video :0
@@oliveredensanchez You mean your players didn't let you know by saying, "Well, that sucked!"?
Illusion spike trap could work if you described the roof on the sides of the room as bloody
That would be a good tweak.
A lot of these traps work better with a bit of signposting. A trap that comes out of nowhere and kills the PCs will only elicit a response of "well that's BS". Whereas a good trap leaves clues to its presence (and deadliness), such that if the PCs succumb to the trap, the player can only say "Oooooh, _that's_ what that was".
It is the same Micheal Stackpole! He was part of the FBI crew back in the day, here in Phoenix.
That flint golem encounter is ingenious ✅
I love these books as some light comedy reading. I never actually thought of them as guides
I don't think they were really intended as guides. They took a common dungeon trope to the extreme for comedic effect. I remember buying each volume as it came out, but never even contemplating using them in my game. We all got a chuckle from reading them, though. It might be fun to make a DCC-style funnel consisting of traps from the series, however. I'd just be sure to tell my players up front and wouldn't attempt more than a 1-shot.
I've had 1 and 2 on my shelf for ages. Mike Stackpole was a huge contributor to Flying Buffalo back in the 70s and 80s, and has gone on to do a lot of cool stuff since then. He still associates with them and supports the products he wrote (Mercenaries, Spies, and Private Eyes). Re: Grimtooth's traps - I agree - a lot of traps, as written, are things I'd never use (nor have I), but the value I get from these books are the ideas from which I can build upon. Thanks for your review, looking forward to the next!
Great teaching video! Really makes concrete through example the principles that make up a "good" or "bad" trap when used in a game. It's too easy to make a trap that would be realistically quite effective at killing/maiming intruders. But we're playing a game here! Let's keep it fun and creative.
Nice thumbnail! And really fun analysis in this video. It really shows how much dungeoneering you've designed/DM/done at this point. Awesome stuff.
Thanks!
Had all of the Grimtooth books as a kid. I'd definitely enjoy more reviews from them; I'm a bit surprised there's some usable stuff in there.
Almost anything in those books is usable. Either to kill or maim permanently OR, with minor adjustment, a DM's trap...
Actually, you know where some of these might work? Like James Bond-esque sci-fi. Like, that Giant Lobster Trap is straight out of Moonraker. And the levers and the invisible force fields could be super-science effects. Moreover, the levers could have wiring or other mechanical indicators that could require a skill check. "You realize that the lever is also the only thing keeping the force field in place."
And the biggest trap of all? Forgetting to comment for the algorithm!
No one takes Gromtooth's traps seriously until they trip one. Then tbey are serious.
If you're looking for balanced traps in a Grimtooth's Traps, look elsewhere. It's more an exercise in what could be, not what should be, and a look back at the adversarial relationship reflected in Tomb of Horrors.
Oh I love grimtooth's traps! Read through every issue. Most of them are so convoluted you can't help but laugh, if you manage to understand them at all that is. They're great inspiration but probably awful to run in-game. Can't wait for the next video on them!
Such a great review! I would love to see a review of another Grimtooth's Traps book. I can see the traps as usable if they are altered significantly such as the examples you are suggesting. I do think some of the traps in Grimtooth's Traps are creative but they clearly would need some revising to be usable. Agreed, I like to give players a fighting chance with traps. If they die in a trap it should be because they did something rash and/or dumb. Oh and yes, it's the same Michael Stackpole who is the SW writer. He wrote for Flying Buffalo first.
Re Michael Stackpole: I don't know if it's the same one that wrote for Star Wars, but it's certainly the same one that wrote an essay in defense of RPGs in the time of the Satanic Panic.
They are one and the same.
With the fishing pole trap, I would stick a ledge or platform on the other side of the body of water, just beyond the coral. That way, if a player is clever, they can let go of the pole as they're being whipped around, using the momentum to land on the other side.
This video would be perfect if you ended each trap review with a catchy put-down, snapped your fingers and said: "Next!"
I remember the old Grimtooth's Traps for my 2e days and I am happy to see its return. I always found I have to do some TLC on them but overall I found them to be a nice source of inspiration that could be easily modified.
Hey, what are your thoughts on the rules provided in ch 8 of the dmg about attacking and destroying objects and being able to destroy traps out of combat or even destroy enemy weapons in combat?
I had this book for a while but never really read it. Having you recommend a couple cool traps from it is even better than reading it myself, so thank you!
Good video. I was thinking of getting this book just to check it out. Please keep going with the other traps.
Fun video - I picked up this book a while back - I think at the last in person Gary Con - as a fun/joke read, but I think with a bit of tweaking some of these might actually be useable! The Bigger they come, for instance you could set a weight limit to what the rock could hold and set up a situation where the PCs need to decide the order they climb, knowing that the heavy armored characters as the most likely to drown, but also the most likely to pull the rock down possibly killing the group. Or put this near the exit of the dungeon with the PCs being chased and carrying large bags of treasure. How do they get it to the top without setting off the trap, and can they use the giant rock to stop/kill whatever is chasing them?! Of course some of these are just silly and weird but maybe a few gems could be mined. Thanks!
I really like this series to hear your perspective on the traps from a game design view. Good information for prospective DMs.
more trap videos
Stackpole also wrote a lot of Battletech novels :D
The flint golem is more of an encounter, but it is really cool! This book seems to be more for inspiration instead of a 1 for 1 guide.
4:26 - Illusion trap, I would add these:
- 2d4 coins "float" upon the fake spikes, at ground level.
- Blood is dripping from the sides ceiling, staining the floor. No clear origin.
Adding some contrasting information should give the players enough material to reflect upon their moves.
Great video! You have convinced me to give Grimtooth's a second look; I had always written it off as merely a joke book for put-upon DMs. Also, Michael Stackpole is *also* the author of "Game Hysteria and the Truth" and "The Pulling Report", works aimed at debunking the "Satanic Panic", B.A.D.D. and the claims of Patricia Pulling.
I'm surprised you disliked the spike pit one so much. To me, that's a great example of a trap which is solved by intuition on the purpose of traps. The players can reasonably intuit from this that not something must not be as it appears, because an obvious trap with an obvious bypass is of no danger to anyone.
A random pit of spikes in a major corridor, in plain sight, with a clear way to safely sidle around said pit, is useless as a trap. Even if edges were narrow and hard to traverse, the inhabitants of the dungeon would be hindered just as much as an invader. It is reasonable to guess from this that the obvious path is probably the real trap, and there must some other easy way to move past it.
Hadn't thought of that. That seems reasonable.
Agreed, when my players see an obvious trap they typically know immediately that what they're seeing isn't the trap itself but a set-up.
I would love to hear how different DM's present traps to the players. What information is freely shared to set the trap situation, what is held back lightly, pending player exploration, and letting the trap be deadly but avoidable. I feel the same way about presenting encounters.
Just a reminder of why none of the Grimstooth's Traps books (of which there were what? four or five?) are in my gaming collection. The traps are largely impractical and really only suited for a "Disneyland" dungeon, rather than a realistic environment which required effort and money to construct. The "ha-ha, you're all dead!" aspect of most of the traps doesn't reflect a healthy DMing style, either. ='[.]'=
Ah, awesome. Big fan of Grimtooth. I think it would be fine to use many of these straight in a situation where you had multiple easily generated low backstory PCs per player, multiple more or less expendable hench & hires, extensive dungeoneering gear and a decent amount of utility magic, including consumables. That all describes a lot of 1e games! A DCC funnel or similar would also be a nice place for these. RIP, baldy, grug, grug's brother, and curly joe.
I have a copy of Grimtooth's Traps, Grimtooth's Traps Too, Grimtooth's Traps Fore, Grimtooth's Traps Ate, and Grimtooth's Traps Lite. I've never used any of those traps, and own the books purely for entertainment purposes. Some of them are just too fantastic or bizarre, however, they are inspiring for creating my own realistic traps in my games.
"Rube Goldberg systems of death!" Great quote. Says it all.
The thing with death traps is... if a GM want's to kill players, they can. The real skill is to put the players in danger of dying but let them live if they are clever enough. The first question any GM MUST ask themselves when making a death trap that can kill the whole party is "Am I ok with this being the LAST game in this campaign?" Because a full party wipe WILL end your campaign most times...
As a point of explanation, Grimtooth's was published during AD&D. In AD&D all magic items were indestructible by conventional means.
It IS the same Michael Stackpole that is the Star Wars writer. He got his start at Flying Buffalo, publisher of Grimtooth's Traps and Tunnels & Trolls.
Please do look at more of Grimtooth! I have a huge soft spot for these books as Grimtooth's Traps Too was the first RPG product I ever bought, back in the 80's.
Most of the traps are silly, and fun to read about but completely unusable in most games. I did find out however that if you as the GM bring a Grimtooth book to a session, the players become ultra careful, even if you haven't actually included a trap in the game.
Ben, I totally agree on traps being less gotcha and more puzzle. The occasional “death trap” is ok but only if the party has an expectation like they know they’re going into the dungeon of the mad wizard who lays bizarre and deadly traps for would be looters. Even provide descriptions from failed adventurers whose parties were wiped out, or they find sprung traps with the unfortunate still in it. Set up a dangerous situation but provide the agency the players need to make decisions to try and get out. Also, the Flint Golem trap is spectacular
I had the original version of this book back in the day. As a 14 year old boy, I thought it was genius. I picked up the new expanded version about two years ago. As an adult, with many years of gaming behind me, I found it to be mostly silly. But with modifications, as you suggested, it can be useful or at least inspirational.
The purpose of these trap books from the 1980s is not comedy, but death. They come from an era of high player character mortality. These traps in this era are seen as too over the top or adversarial. The point of Grimtooth's was this; If you come into my dungeon to steal my stuff and you're not clever, you deserve what you get. So, come on you smart clever adventurers, you can survive all these lame traps, right?
I think traps are difficult to use sometimes. I would never use an insta-kill trap unless it was heavily foreshadowed.
Certain traps seem strange in the context of a Thief/Rogue or whatever trap-finding characters like the Flint monster- boiling oil trap. A player would need to take additional actions to roll disarm trap in that context. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
I like the flint golem one, but it's a bit too easy to deal with - simply retreat and ignite the room from a safe distance - unless you use the old "door locks behind you" trick which is really a little overdone.
What would really make this one interesting is to have a combustible treasure of some kind - like a bunch of valuable scrolls - stored in the room and visible/known to the players prior to entering, so they have a strong incentive to NOT set fire to the room.
The amphitheatre one is another fun one - you could set it up so it won't budge unless at least two or three party members have entered the room. This gives the players a way out - they can avoid unbalancing the room by crossing it one by one - but it depends heavily on whether the second/third member passes their reflex save to retreat (upon feeling the floor shifting) before they tip the whole thing over!
And in defense of Stackpole, I think the teetering rock is actually kind of fun. It's not strong enough to hang an entire room on (haha), but as part of a larger setup, it could be interesting. Note the shark in the image - players could make use of the rock as a tool to defeat an enemy; making them feel like they've done something clever is always good.
I really like Grimtooth's tarps, seeing my favorite trap "Illusions" only getting a 2/5 is a bit sad, I mostly like this trap because the players see a spike pit and will be notified that something is wrong here, I ran this trap a few times on diffrent groups of players and it always had diffrent results whether it was the players finding out it was an illusion by accidentaly dropping a rope "into" the pit, activating the trap just for fun/recklessness or climbing across the wall over the spring loaded ground. I can understand and agree with the other ratings and would really enjoy seeing more trap reviews of any kind.
I managed to curse a player with the Idiot’s Vase. The player broke the vase, failed an Int save took and 6 points of Intelligence damage. It was the first trap in the dungeon, and it made for great role play with her animal companion who was now more intelligent than her. 🐕🧠
I love these traps. Though most of the stranger/cooler ones I find a little hard to put into castles or other overland buildings.
EDIT: At 11:40-11:50 Trap, I would put it in some cove where the players have the chance to fish for treasure.
I could see the lobster trap working if the wall was obvious (eg. tinted glass instead of a force field). I'd add some railing on the ceiling to show the cage can be pulled horizontally across the room, but once the players figure that out, I'd just let them go. I like the idea of the lever, but I agree there's not enough clues there. Perhaps the wall could have grooves into which it would slide up, and I would tell the players about those right away. What do you think?
This is a book of humorous traps for wicked GMs to read and chuckle at but not necessarily to actually use in play. The idea is they are cruelly ingenious and I have heard gamers laugh out loud reading this (in a good way), so mission accomplished.
I like the illusionary spike pit trap; I think it's actually the best one you showed. The idea is that it is way too obvious that something will happen if you try to go around the "spike pit". Why would you have a spike pit if you can simply walk around it - that's the signpost. The gimmick is that players would already suspect that there are hidden mechanisms that causes them to fall into the spike pit - but they would never expect a mechanism indented to smash them into the ceiling. That's the clever bit.
The main difficulty with the trap is not lack of signposting, but rather that once they discover the smash ceiling trap mechanism - it's still not obvious that the spike pit is an illusion. It would make more sense if spring came out from the side knocking into the pit. So it's very hard to figure that out, but if a player manages to solve it just by wit, that one out it would really epic. Players might also want to try to engineer other ways to get across the "spike pit"; like shooting a grappling hook or a rope with a crossbow or something - the clever bit here is that they think they will die if they fall, but instead they would just fall on the floor with not significant consequences - and that would be hilarious. If you use illusions then it's always good idea to also add some "blablabla of true sight" somewhere the dungeon; players have a chance to skip the room then revisit every room it later.
A lot of these I feel could be plopped right into a DCC 0 level funnel for fun character creation times.
I feel like almost all of these 'traps' would actually have some benefit if they were each given a potential win condition. A trap should always have some way to 'beat' it, that's the fun of figuring out the gimmick and being able to overcome the challenge. I personally like to think of at least one primary method of success, and if the players come up with something else then kudos to them.
The Grimtooth Traps series are insane. They're a lot of fun to read, but I've never used one!
Ah, yes. I once adapted several of these for a short dungeon which consisted solely of traps that guarded an artifact of good until it was needed. Unfortunately the people who made the dungeon had died out and no one knew how to get through it. The players were aware what they were going into, and I made a point of giving every trap a "solution" so someone who knew what they were doing could have got through without trouble.
The players got through without any deaths thanks to clever play, though one player came *very* close with a nasty trap involving an underwater section and an "air" pocket.
The one that got away is my favorite Grimtooth trap. It is just so funny xD. But I would only use it in a game where the players now that it's all about ridiculous traps.
Anybody know any good resources for traps for the terribly unimaginative?
i would love to see ore videos like this going over traps. i have the grimtooth's book, but its hard to tell what should go into a game and what wouldnt work, since theyre all so crazy. im definitely using that flint golem one, though. thats just awesome :D
The Rock Tipping Trap could be funny if it was a wooden structure that collapses to fall in that the players can use the flotsam as a raft. You could fill the wood structure with something fun for the party to deal with as they try to escape (i.e. water snakes or something).
I really liked this video. Reading through these ridiculous traps is always fun and hearing someone else's opinions is quite useful in how to use and better design dangerous puzzles and fun traps.
Seems like the mindset for this book is, DM as antagonist. I don't like it. But there are a couple of decent traps in here. I like the flint golem and burning oil one. But I definitely disagree with you on the fishing rod one.
This video feels like your english teacher giving you feedback on why you got an F on your essay😂
The portals are superfluous in that trap. I've seen much better use of portals in setting up perpetual motion in a trap (like a giant ball rolling down an incline over and over).
Ah, Tunnels and Trolls. Grimtooth and his traps. Way over the top to put in a game, but fun to read.
My favorite of the Grimmtooth's traps was the one for parties that use hirelings to test all the traps. The hireling opens the chest, and the wall rotates. The hireling ends up with a path outside with some treasure, and the party gets a large monster to punish them.
What was the ratio of 4+ out of 5 traps in the book overall?
This was a great idea for a video! It was super fun and I hope you do more of them.
You should make a trap book, and take submissions from your patreon.
Loved this! I have had the same feelings as you reading Grimtooth
Anyone else getting a bit of desync? Seems to me like the video is a tiny bit behind the audio.
I could watch Ben review these all day; hyped for the next one. Goodman Games put out a DCC module relatively recently called Grimtooth's Museum Of Death that struck me as a great dungeon of evil Grimtooth traps.