Different Ways to Ignore AC Input on a Victron MultiPlus 2 Inverter
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- ⚡🔌 In this video, we dive deep into the world of the Victron MultiPlus 2 Inverter and explore various techniques to ignore AC input, allowing you to harness standalone power like a pro.
In the dynamic environments of RVs and marine settings, the convenience of automatically switching to AC input when plugged in is a game-changer. But what about stationary environments like homes, where you want more control?
Join me as I walk you through different approaches and configurations, demonstrating how to deactivate AC input effectively. Discover the flexibility of the MultiPlus 2 Inverter and its capability to adapt to your unique power needs.
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At 9:21, the generator start/stop assistant information is not correct. In the video it shows the relay being turned on when the load is high or the SOC is low (and the opposite for low load and high SOC), but the relay should be turned off. The relay is controlling the General Flag (AC Ignore). When the relay is set to "on" it will activate AC Ignore and turn off the grid connection. When the relay os "off" it will NOT ignore AC In and the inverter will switch to passthrough mode.
Basically you just have to switch "relay on" to "relay off" and visa versa for the two programmable relay assistants. Unfortunately I cannot edit the video to add the correction without taking it down.
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Links to the parts & pieces in the video (affiliate links)
------------------------------------
Victron 48V MultiPlus-II 5kVA 120V Inverter
www.currentconnected.com/prod...
10kVA 120/240v Base MultiPlus-II System
www.currentconnected.com/prod...
Victron VE.Bus to USB - MK3-USB Interface Configuration Tool
www.currentconnected.com/prod...
Victron Cerbo GX
www.currentconnected.com/prod...
Victron GX Touch 7" Display
www.currentconnected.com/prod...
For more information, please check out my website with links to all the components, materials and products I have used in developing my off-grid solar system: going-off-grid.com
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Chapters
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0:00 Intro
1:20 5 Different Ways to control AC Input
2:51 Connecting to the Inverters
3:55 The Virtual Switch Option
5:48 The Assistants
10:15 The Cerbo's Generator Start/Stop Feature
13:01 Programming the Inverter
15:04 Programming the Cerbo
11:36 Wiring between the Inverter to the Cerbo
21:02 Making Changes on the Fly
22:17 Final Thoughts & Wrap Up
#diy #offgrid #solar #currentconnected #victron #multiplus #multiplus2 #ignoreacinput
*** Disclaimer ***
Please remember, I'm just a DIYer like you. Don't take what I'm doing as gospel truth, it's just how I'm doing things. If you're unsure of how to do something, look into hiring a professional or at least consult with a professional to determine the correct way to do things. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
***
At 9:21, the generator start/stop assistant information is not correct. In the video it shows the relay being turned on when the load is high or the SOC is low (and the opposite for low load and high SOC), but the relay should be turned off. The relay is controlling the General Flag (AC Ignore). When the relay is set to "on" it will activate AC Ignore and turn off the grid connection. When the relay os "off" it will NOT ignore AC In and the inverter will switch to passthrough mode.
Basically you just have to switch "relay on" to "relay off" and visa versa for the two programmable relay assistants. Unfortunately I cannot edit the video to add the correction without taking it down.
***
Links to the parts & pieces in the video (affiliate links)
------------------------------------
Victron 48V MultiPlus-II 5kVA 120V Inverter
www.currentconnected.com/product/victron-48v-multiplus-2-5kva-120v-inverter-70a-charger/?ref=AzzpK9Fl
10kVA 120/240v Base MultiPlus-II System
www.currentconnected.com/product/10kva-120-240v-multiplus-2-5kva/?ref=AzzpK9Fl
Victron VE.Bus to USB - MK3-USB Interface Configuration Tool
www.currentconnected.com/product/victron-interface-mk3-usb-configuration-tool/?ref=AzzpK9Fl
Victron Cerbo GX
www.currentconnected.com/product/victron-cerbo-gx-system-controller/?ref=AzzpK9Fl
Victron GX Touch 7" Display
www.currentconnected.com/product/gx-touch-display-cerbo-gx/?ref=AzzpK9Fl
I understand your video...great job. I have grid and generator. Sometimes the grid is off (Bahamas !) and I need the generator to behave as in your video. The generator would be started manually so AC would appear on input 2. Would the scenario work without any changes eg if I used the Start Generator Manually for say 1 hour to top up batteries ?
Graham
This is the single most useful video I've seen on grid tie with Victron gear. Now i know this is almost exactly how I'll do my house! Thank you!!!
Glad to be able to help!
Just wanted to say a BIG THANK YOU! this is what I was wanting to do, just hadn't figured it out on my own yet!👍 Looking forward to more content, you appear to be reading my mind! Thanks Again!
Glad to be able to help!
Just to say thank you Adam for your inovative idea. I have followed this and now have my system Automatically switching between mains and Batteries at the levels I set in the Cerbo. Just what I wanted. Well done. Bob. UK
Thanks Bob! Glad it helped!
Being an industrial electrician using plc logic this is good info for me. I have been wondering about being able to play with options and you have now opened a whole new world of possibilities. Thanks for being a inquisitive person
I'm planning on full time RV life and with this info I will be able to utilize my solar vs grid in parks that you pay lot fees and your metered power. Solar wont be Boondock only use. It will help overcome extended stay park electric use charges.
Awesome! Glad to be able to help!
Thank you. This was very helpful. The quality of useful information in this video has convinced me to watch your other videos to see what else I can learn. Good job 👍
Thanks! Glad it helped!
Great video! It's great you are making these videos. it's helping many people.
Thanks!
Great information. needed this to control a similar setup since ESS is always drawing power from the Grid. THANKS👏
Super comprehensive material! Thank You so much! Greetings from Poland
Glad it helps! Thanks!
Now it's a perfect system. Thank you
Glad to be able to help
Great video and please make as many videos like this as possible.
Here is a nice way to see why Victron is so expensive and what it offers in return,
not to mention the low power consumption of low frequency inverters and other things...
Videos like this make other solar systems look like toys.
I would like to see videos on how to use built-in relays on Victron devices to control battery heating in winter depending on the battery temperature through external temperature sensors on the battery or directly from the temperature sensors from the BMS (not sure if this is possible) or to control active cooling of the solar charger depending on its temperature on hot summer days.
Thanks!
I believe controlling something by temperature is very easy to do. While I don't have a use-case, I'll add to my list to try and mock something up for those in cold weather environments. Seems like it would also be beneficial in mobile applications.
Mate that is really helpful! Thank you...
You're welcome! Glad it helps!
Thank you so much for the help en support!
No worries! Thanks a lot!
Was just looking at how to achieve this myself last night :)
Decided to go with nodered and controlling inverter switch position, but I think I prefer the relay closing so that the system is properly off grid when not charging.
I've seen a lot of people asking about how to do it. Glad to be able to help!
Thanks! I implemented on our motorcoach. I also use an Assistant to drive a relay to kill power to 2nd AC on loss of shorepower. It appears the genset/AC ignore setup will produce the same result. Nice when rig sits plugged in at home to get a little free power!
Thank you for this video. After following the steps and doing everything correctly, my Victron system is working exactly as I was hoping it would. I'm actually using the temperature sensor input on my Multiplus, and being able to use the generator start/stop feature in the Cerbo as the grid for battery charging is just plain awesome. You can actually do these same things with AC Input Control in VictronConnect, but for some strange reason using the battery state of charge isn't an option. Using voltage is fine, if your system isn't that smart and connected, but it's nowhere near as stable as using SOC. The real killer part is changing these parameters in the Cerbo and not needing to reboot the inverter every time you change things as you fine tune your system. When pairing these abilities with the Trends the SmartShunt records with regard to battery voltage and state of charge, I was able to cut out the waste at the top and bottom of the charge points. You can see exactly where the battery voltage falls off a cliff at the bottom, and where that last few percent at the top really aren't worth the trouble. I could go on for a while, but I just want to say thank you again for this great video and making it easy to understand and follow.
Your welcome! Glad to be able to help!
Great video and help with setting up Victron Multiplus's programming for AC grid charging. I found this same procedure in some documents I searched for a couple of years ago. I can tell you it works great, and I often use the Cerbo display to modify when I want the AC charging to kick in. I set the SOC it to 30 to 35% in summer and as high as 70 to 75% in winter.
I also use "Quiet" hour constantly, as we (here in Canada) get charged for grid power based on time of day. 7pm to 7am is always the cheapest rate, so I set "Quiet Hours" to be 7am to 7pm, and have y SOC parameter set to 10 to 13%., which has never kicked in; but is there in an emergency.
I do have a question, as I do not use the load parameters to trigger AC pass through, I have two 24/3000 Multiplus Inverters running in split phase. If pass through was programmed to be enabled on high loads like you described in your video, is there a limit to how much it will pass through? Does the 3000 VA limits on the inverters limit it? If I turned on my dryer (5000W) and oven (4000W), and AC pass through is enabled, what happens?
thank-you again
Thanks!
So the inverter should be able to utilize up to the value you have set for your AC In current limit. If you exceed that value (and power assist is enabled), your inverter should draw from your battery as well to help cover the load.
That was very useful, I've been wondering how to charge if state of charge was low for a while. Thanks for sharing, I'll have to experiment as in a poor solar week.
I bet if I set quiet hours to when grid power is most expensive (7am-11pm) I could set to only charge a minimal amount if below a low threshold and if SOC goes not quite as low when power is cheapest (11pm-7am) then I could put on a bigger charge to the batteries ?
awesome. that is the info i was searching for a long time…..
Glad it helped!
really great video !!!!!! thank you so much ;-)
Appreciate that!
Solid video!
Thanks!
Adam.. You have just earned my subscription for this wealth of info. I just had my MPII 12v 3000 120 connected\wired up last week.. It's been sucking power from my 30A shore connection ever since. Un fortunately I'm 900 miles from home. When I left the house several days ago.. I made sure my system was working. It was.. then 2 hrs later my CERBO locked up. It just reset itself yesterday on it's own. I now have access to the VRM again.. but am very hesitant to make any changes from remote. It's gonna be nice to get home and plug into it and make these changes. I have almost 3000w in 2 arrays. I'd buy you a cup of coffee but I'm in Oregon, Well actually AZ right now.
Awesome! Glad to be able to help! Hope it works out for you when you get back. Travel safe!
@@AdamDeLay07 I called Current connected in Vegas today and Vern said I can do all setting changes online through the VRM..
@@OFFGRID_Trucker yeah you can use the Remote Console through the VRM or you can download the VE Config file and make changes that way. It’s awesome that you can make all those changes without being in front of the system.
@@AdamDeLay07 Well. I saved the changes and tried to upload it, but got a small popup box said:
Error
You can upload only a single .rvsc or .rvms file
I was just wondering how to do this until i get to work out some node-red flows .. great video ! Just wondering if i need to hook aux 1 on the master inverter only on a 3 phase rather thab hooking 3 multis to cerbox on aux 1
Glad it helps! I would think it would be the same on a 3 phase as it is with split phase, you just have to hook it to the master.
Really helpful, thank you! Kind of silly you have to run those wires between relays, the Cerbo should be able to do that over it's existing connection to the Multi; hopefully an update will give us that capability!
Thanks! Yeah it would be nice to use the relays for external connections and have the cerbo be able to manage anything “internal” to the Victron network.
Thanks for your work. Do I have to program all 3 units in 3 phase system?
Thanks! Because the relays are specific to the inverter, I believe you only need to put those assistants on the specific inverter. I actually just went to my system and removed the assistants off inverter 2 and everything still seems to be working as it should.
Thank you for this video. I just started researching Victron as a Load Sharing solution for my house in Ontario Canada. I want to run the house on Battery power during Peak Electricity rates from 4pm-9pm daily $0.28/kWh, and then charge during the cheap times from 11pm-7am $0.028/kWh. I use about 8-10kWh now during the peak time. Your video was helpful in explaining how the Victrons work. With the Cerbo thing, can you program a time when you want the house to be on battery? - Maybe make the 4pm-9pm timeslot to be the quiet hour?
Thanks!
Yes I seem to recall seeing a time schedule option in the generator configuration.
Great video. Extremely helpful. I see you have 2 larger multiplus units which cannot be paralleled. Have you bonded the neutrals of these units or are they isolated?
Thanks.
I have two 5kVa inverters set up for split phase. They can be paralleled together though for 10kVa on a 120v system. The neutrals are bonded together.
Hello, thank you for this video! Why for the first part (without the CerboGX relay) do you use two programmable relay assistants and not only the “generator start and stop” assistant?
It took me a while to figure out that I could use the generator start/stop function (either from the MP or the Cerbo), so I was just showing the different options I had come across till I found one I really liked.
Amazing explenation!
What about using a ESS assistant and just run your whole house with heatpumps and so on trew the MultiPlus.
The ESS can also be acessed via the Cerbo GX. So if you are allowed to do that with your grid provider, than go for it...way less painfull ;)
Adam, great tutorial. Thnx. The cable you've added, orange and orange/white --> does it matter + and -? I saw in the picture of the Multiplus-II under aux-1 a + and -
Are those also at the plug of the Cerbo?
Greets from The Netherlands 🙏
Thank you!
In this specific case, I don't believe it matters because you're just opening and closing the circuit via the relay. I believe I ended up using the negative line as the common on the relay though.
As far as what's at the Cerbo side, it's just 3 wire points for the relay. NC (Normally Closed), C (Common) and NO (Normally Open).
Adam, so well explained and clear. Thank you! Question: we are mobile and I would like to use this technique of Cerbo-to-MP relays to control powering a water heater. Like many mobile users, we have our MP turned off as default to reduce parasitic draw.
Do the assistants run when the MP is off? Seems like a silly question, but I know for a fact that "off" does not mean the MP is not powered as the Trickle Charger functions even when off, so long as attached to the battery bank.
And if so, can an assistant turn on the inverter, so a water heater can be turned on?
Thanks!
Thanks!
I think it might depend on if "off" is referring to using the switch on the bottom of the inverter or if your turning things "off" through the VRM. If you use the switch on the inverter, then the system is completely shut down. I'm not quite sure about the "off" state through the VRM. I would imagine certain aspects would need to remain active to allow you to turn the system back on.
Since you have a Cerbo, have you looked at the GuiMods video I made which would allow you to easily turn the inverters on/off on the cerbo? I know you can go to Settings -> MultiPlus -> State and turn the inverter off, but that's way too many clicks. If you install the GuiMods package, you can then just tap the inverter on the Cerbo display and turn it on/off. th-cam.com/video/RVkTFtDDvfQ/w-d-xo.html
Adam,
Fantastic Video! exactly what I want to do, tweak from anyplace thru the cerbo.
Did I miss something? 13:02 your back on L1 after sending assistants to L1 and L2.
Did you create a New general flag (which is the same as 1st) Create another Programmable relay & relay (1) with new commands, is that correct? for the Start & Stop Gen from the cerbo with Aux1. Then those get sent to L1 only.
Thanks Adam!
Thanks!
So after 10:15 I start talking about the Gen start/stop feature which is what I'm using now. The assistants shown before that time were really just showing different options you could use.
So at 13:02, I'm using the same assistant, but the relays were changed to utilize the Aux1 state as trigger parameters. I believe that I only sent those to Inverter 1 but it's been so long, I might have sent them to both inverters not knowing that they only needed to be sent to one. I'm assuming you only need them on the inverter that has the physical connection to the Aux1 input.
I would like to ask you to test one feature of the Victron system.
In one video it was mentioned that when Victron loses internet connection, it stores data on SD card and when it reconnects to the internet, it automatically uploads the offline data from use to the system, so no historic monitoring data would be lost.
I really like this feature to avoid data loss when offline and online use for a portable solar victron installation or even for a fixed installation when the internet goes down, without losing offline data. And this is something I miss a lot with all other solar systems, at least with all commercially sold Portable Solar Stations.
Testing is easy, just turn off the internet for a while and then turn it on and wait if the data comes back to the VRM portal during that offline time. When the data shows up there, test it offline for a longer time.
I wonder if this works automatically, or if you need to do some setup besides inserting the SD card into Cerbo.
I haven't seen any confirmation or video on this yet.
Thank you very much in advance if you could test this feature.
Another great idea! I'll add to my list!
Adam, great video. I use the Cerbo to control my AC IN too just like you described. I noticed on your VRM display that the Generator does not show up. My setup shows the Generator box right below the AC In box on the VRM dashboard and I'm trying to figure out how to hide it. Did you configure a setting somewhere that turns the Generator box off in the VRM display?
Also, there is a way to save multiple configuration files with different Multiplus settings that can be uploaded through the VRM. I use these files to adjust my Multiplus Charger Absorption and Float settings depending on the weather forecast and battery SOC. If the weather forecast is dreary or storms are coming over the next few days, I load the settings with higher Absorption and Float values so I can charge the battery faster from the grid. If its going to be sunny for a few days I load the lower charge settings to minimize the amount of energy I use from the grid and charge the battery more from PV.
To hide the generator option, on your cerbo go to menu - settings - system setup - ac input 2 - set to “not available”.
As far as quick upload files, I’m not sure because through the VRM they seem to be time based and I’m not sure if “older” files can be loaded or not. I would just try to save different copies to your computer and see if it will allow you to upload them after a few days.
Hi Adam. Thanks for the tip on the generator display box. On the multiplus configuration files I have indeed used files that are older than a few days. There’s a note that comes up when you go into a configuration file to tweak it about being more than a few days old, but as long as you start with a configuration file that was created in your current version of firmware (v506 in my case), you can save changes into copies of different configuration files. You can rename the files to indicate the main settings that are contained within the file. Then you can use the Remote Configure feature on VRM to upload the file with you saved settings. I save different configurations as described in my previous post.
@@brucebugbee6604 perfect! I wondered if you could do that with the files! Thanks!
WOW, this is great. I have lots to learn for my 1 unit, 12v MP2 3000. So far, I run only the solar with 400 Ah batteries (plan to update capacity to up to 800) and if it (batteries) gets too low I flip a wall witch and have the inverter/charger charge from grid. Right now I only have it set at 15 Amps but will do more later. I would like to have grig charge when batteries get to ... lets say 30% and shut off when solar can do it fully... (I think I do, I am having to learn much).
Thanks David! I think there's a lot for all of us to learn! Good luck on expanding your system! I have to do that myself.
For sure. I appreciate the time you take to share... pat @@AdamDeLay07
Thanks
Thank you!
Noticed that you still use that USB-to-Victron programming cable. Have you noticed the VRM option under the "Device list" called Remote VEConfigure. That allows for downloading the inverter's config file straight from the inverter(using the GX) and opening it on a remote laptop. Then just using the same VE Configure 3 program for changes you can do anything you want. It saves the same file locally and VRM enables uploading the same file back to the Multiplus remotely without having to physically connect cables. Handy. I didn't even buy the USB cable for my MPII.
Thank you. Yes I was aware of that. I believe I mentioned it in this video as well.
I don't believe you can get access to all the controls when you first setup your inverter. I was told you can't set the mp2 to lithium battery type without the dongle. I agree once you have it configured once, you can probably export/import. But, the initial setup I was told has to be done with the dongle.
@@Jhovan33 I can’t speak to the initial setup because Current Connected preprogrammed everything for me before I receive the inverters. I didn’t have to worry about anything including firmware updates because it was all done for me.
Thanks for a great explanation........I live in Australia and I was looking for a solution to keep the AC grid input off during peak electricity tarriffs which are now stupidly high..........about AUD 70c/kw/hr and it just keeps going up.
Glad it helped!
I understand your video...great job. I have grid and generator. Sometimes the grid is off (Bahamas !) and I need the generator to behave as in your video. The generator would be started manually so AC would appear on input 2. Would the scenario work without any changes eg if I used the Start Generator Manually for say 1 hour to top up batteries ?
Graham
Appreciate that Graham!
Since you have a second AC In, I'm guessing you're talking about a Quattro, which I'm not 100% familiar with.
Do you have the grid connected to AC IN 1 and you're trying to ignore the grid connection as well?
@@AdamDeLay07 Yes there are 2 AC Inputs on quattro; AC and Generator normally (could be wind) Could I duplicate with a second general flag for ACinput 2....? Or can a general flag have 2 designations or can you have 2 general flagS?
@@grahamllewis I know the Cerbo only allows for the generator controls to be used on Relay 1. Going off the cuff, you may be able to use the generator assistant in the quattro for ignoring the grid connection and then use the Cerbo/Generator Start stop feature for controlling the generator off Relay 1. Just a guess though.
Thanks for that Adam. I have actually already used my 2 relays on my GX Venus and also one of the AUX relays to stop my heat pump when my SOC gets below 16%. I have 2 x Multis as well and 6 x Pylontech batteries, no solar. My system recharges overnight between 00:30 and 04:30 to recharge the batteries but what I've been finding is leakage of valuable volts back to the grid during the day. I've found that I'm feeding back to the grid 102KWhs over that past 7 days which is a lot of battery power that I don't want to give away. So I thought, like you, I'd disconnect the AC in via the virtual switch but got stuck because it also deletes the ESS (so I thought). But you have shown me another way to get around this which I will try with the general flag and possibly the AUX2 relay. I am going to assign the AC switch to the general flag and then using the general relays to switch AUX2 on and off. Then wire AUX2 externally to a digital timer set to 00:30 (on) and 04:30 (off). This will then only connect the mutltis to the grid during charging, which is what I want and because they are linked to and external (manual not computer) timer, I can change this easily.
That's always been my concern when the ESS assistant is being used. I don't want any power going back out to the grid, so I had to find some alternative.
Yeah, you can't use the Virtual Switch and any assistants at the same time. I find the assistants allow for more customization though. Good luck! Let me know what you find out!
@@AdamDeLay07 I programmed the multis with the general flag a 2 x programmable relays but found that it now throws up a “Grid alarm Grid lost [261]” is there a way of suppressing this message that you know of?
@@dickie997 Yep. On your display or remote console, go to Menu -> Settings -> System Setup and disable "Monitor for grid failure".
@@AdamDeLay07 got it 👍
@AdamDeLay07 I am having a issue with my set up. I wanted to know about, when I set up the AC on the relay switch when I turn it on or off it shuts down the power like a surge and resets the power.
Hmm, so as you trying to use the generator start/stop feature of the Cerbo?
Hi Adam I was looking into installing the same set up for grid assist. Mostly i want to spend $15k with a rather small pv string of 4 or 5 k coupled with 3 100 ah batts. to run at minimum my irrigation well pump and my pool circ. pump all for the fun of it lol . At the end of the day are you happy with the system and are you still using it? I know there are a lot of less expensive options out there all in ones ... but i like the low freq , transformers for the inductive loads and the low stand by usage. Your videos are a wealth of information. thank you, Scott.
Thanks Scott! Yep still running strong and I would probably forget I was even running off the inverters if I would just stop tinkering with them... 😁
Good luck on your own solar journey! It's a lot of fun!
That's why i don't call in a professional to install a typical system , there'd be nothing left to -as you've said in your videos "teek" @@AdamDeLay07 Thanks a bunch for getting back
Tweek
Adam.. Why the 4549W.. I'm guessing yours is 50A connection. when I first programmed the MP.. I remember seeing 3600. I am on a 30A shore power.. So I'm trying to follow every step while I'm somewhat duplicating yours.. but I have questions..
No real reason. I wana say that was the default number I saw when I was playing around with the Virtual Switch in the beginning and the value just kinda stuck.
I know that if the inverters can handle it, I don’t want them falling back to grid.
I’m happy to try and answer any questions you have!
Good tutorial Adam, thanks
Thanks Steven!
You get started on your next project?
Not yet, I have been refining my Veggie-Oil process. I got it filtered down to 1 micron and storing it in a new 275 gallon IBC Tote. I needed to get it done before the cold sets in. As a Michiganian you know what that like.
I just installed 2 Victron 48V 5000W Inverters in Split Phase.
How do I get the MP's to automatically lower the charging amps when the onboard generator is supplying AC IN?
I’m not sure if there’s an automatic way to distinguish between generator and grid.
I know you can use the Cerbo to change the max ac in, but I’m not sure if that applies to the charging amps as well.
Im using node red. It's super easy to program and easy to change. It was interesting to see how to perform the same function with the cerbo gx relay. The big issue for me is that I don't want to charge the batteries when I turn on the ac power. If my batteries get down to 20%, I want to switch over to grid until the next day of sunshine. However, I'm finding that the multiplus 2 seems to want to charge the batteries every time you enable ac power. There is no "pass thru" mode. It's always pass thru and battery charger. You can set the battery charge to something like 3amps, but it won't let you set it to zero. It's inefficient to charge the batteries and then use the power. It would be great if you can just pass grid power until the battery state of charge goes over a threshold and then switch to inverter. (ie. sun is shining.) If you find out how to do this, please do a video.
I’m the same way, I don’t want to charge when the inverters switch to pass through mode.
th-cam.com/video/T5-7xcGWsgE/w-d-xo.html
Hay Adam just found your channel and I must say thanks for you detailed explanation and videos. I have one question tho. When grid assist is trigger by watts does it supply all the needed watts or does it assist the battery bank and deliver a percentage of the watts needed?
Thanks! The way the Victron inverters work, it will activate AC in and completely take over all loads till the “release” value is met.
@AdamDeLay07 so if you should turn down the sure power amp draw, let's say to 10amps (meaning you can only pull 10amp from sure power) but lets say house needs 25amps to supply loads will the batteries supply the additional 15amps? Im looking at making my solar system work hard and depend less on grid power.
@@seangordon4492 I've never done it but I believe so, yes. That's their "PowerAssist" functionality. It's designed for use with smaller generators in mind that can only output a fixed amount of power. If the inverter output requirements exceed the AC In current limit (and powerassist is enabled), then it should draw the remaining power from the batteries.
I get what you're trying to do, cause I'm trying to limit my grid usage as well. Personally I wouldn't mess with the PowerAssist in a fixed (home environment). Focus more on getting your batteries recharged so you don't have to be on grid at all. If you use PowerAssist like this, you'll be continually draining your batteries and depending on the loads, you might not be able to recharge fast enough.
@AdamDeLay07 Wow, the softwear is really flexible, I get so excited when I learn something from your videos. I think every individual has to program their multi as to their needs because in my case my system is in float by 10:30 most days. Im really just trying to fine tune it because im away from home most time and would love to have the grid backing my system up just in case. Thanks again brother and keep the videos coming you're doing a wonderful job.
@@seangordon4492 Thanks Sean! You're right, every system is different! Good luck and have fun!
9:21 Hi Adam. Im wondering if you needed to change the relay output condition, or if the assistants worked exactly as shown in the summary. On my Multiplus, I needed to set the General Flag relay output to “Off” in order to activate AC1 input, and to “On” to ignore AC1 input.
Did you use the NC or NO portion of the cerbo relay? That would change the conditions needed.
I’m not talking about the physical relay, I mean the general flag used in the section for creating assistants. On my system, “On” means “Ignore AC1”.
@@gradythird5678 I can’t recall exactly how it worked in that specific example because I didn’t use it very long due to the fact that u discovered the generator start/stop function.
It could be that the normal “off” state of that relay is “closed” and “on” is “open”. That might explain why I had to use the NC side of the relay on the cerbo.
Logically it seems backwards though.
Yes, it work the same with my Multiplus 10
The instructions for setting the assistants is backwards in the video. Setting the flag to “ON” activates “Ignore AC1”, and vice-versa. Other than that, it’s a great video.
Adam, thanks for this new approach to the topic. I'm just wondering. From functional point of view, is your solution do the same as ESS Assistant? I can see that we can control behavior from cebro but is there something else? Something more useful over ESS Assistant or it is the same?
Thanks.
I haven't messed with the ESS Assistant yet. Still doing research. I know the ESS Assistant is used when you want to sell back to the grid and there's always potential for a little power to go back to the grid even when you have the inverters programmed not to sell back. I know you can pull excess power to try and minimize the flow to the grid, but that means that your using additional grid power when the goal is to minimize grid usage.
With the way I have things configured right now, the AC IN relay is opened when you run on battery power (I believe some refer to it as islanding?) where there's no connection to the grid at all. The relay to the grid only closes when your inverters power everything from the grid.
Still doing research on the ESS Assistant and it's on my list of things to do a video on.
@@AdamDeLay07Thank you! Please let me know any news of your exploration in this area. In the meantime, I will try to implement your approach. The problem is that I don't have Cerbo, only RPI with VenusOS, so I have to experiment with external relay controlled by GPIO.
@@mateuszmazur1482 Will do! In the meantime, you might wana take a look at this video: th-cam.com/video/lv5rqqbDFL0/w-d-xo.html
Might help you out with your expermentation.
@@AdamDeLay07 yeep! Exactly. Thanks
Hi adam, I am now trying to set it up as you show so the A/C input can be controlled from the Cerbo, You say set the programable relay to take notice of the general flag and then to set the relay off whan the Auxilary input is open for 1 second. I have not got that choice available? They must have changed the assistants since you made this video?
Edit: OK, I have discovered by trial and error that we need to select "Input signal" Instead of state of charge to get to the page where you select the the input open for 1 second.
Why didn't you actually show the configuration on this part like you did on the first Adam?
Sorry about that. I assumed showing the summery would give people all the information they would need to set the assistant since it only shows what's programmed instead of all of the available options.
Hallo, Is there a reason not to use the generator start and stop assistant instead of two programmable relay?
You can use the assistant if you would like, but you still have to use VE Config if you want to make any changes to the settings. I was looking for something that would allow me to make changes without having to download/upload configuration files.
great video. What happens if there is grid power cut. If you set if to come on at a certain time but there is no power from grid can it the relay be set to immediatly turn off again? or better again not turn on in the 1st place unless it detects power
So in my case since I’m using SOC to determine when to have grid power be used, if the grid is lost and the threshold is hit, it automatically switches to grid when grid power is restored.
@@AdamDeLay07 So if relay turns on due to battery SOC. What happens to the relay if there is no power from the grid? The reason im asking is because obviosuly would want and need complete isolation from grid in the event of a powercut. Most inverters that have capability to feed to grid would auto turn off relay if no grid power is detected.
@@giollaliddy5817 The relay doesn't close if there's no power from the grid. It will only close when grid is available.
@@AdamDeLay07even though it thinks it's a generator it still won't open? If yes, then this is amazing, thanks for the info
@@giollaliddy5817 the way I have it wired, the multiplus doesn’t know whether it’s grid or generator power. It just turns on the AC in based on a relay. The cerbo is the only thing that thinks it’s controlling a generator.
Is there an option to prevent the AC from charging the batteries?
On a sunny day, my PV charges the batteries and powers my AC output circuits.
At night, the AC circuits are powered by the battery.
If the battery discharges, the AC output circuits must be powered from the AC input circuits, but without charging the battery.
The batteries will be charged the next day or the next...
Yes there is! Here's what I did to allow me to decide IF I wanted to charge from AC In: th-cam.com/video/T5-7xcGWsgE/w-d-xo.html
In your first method, without cerbo, can the relay be triggered manually or just at the set thresholds?
The manual controls are only available through the Cerbo. I actually just tested this by turning off the "generator start/stop" function of Relay 1. As soon as I did that, the manual control options went away on the Cerbo and the VRM.
@@AdamDeLay07 Thank you. Awesome video content. Now I want to go all in on Victron. Just wish they had RSD/GroundFault/ArchFault.
@@cgutowski471 yeah I’m not sure about any of those by default. I do know that I wana see if I can figure out a way to create an “emergency stop” using the different customization options. From the inverter standpoint it actually should be pretty easy since they have a remote switch option.
@@AdamDeLay07 Agree based on what I read. The RS MPPT I would hope would have Ground and Arch Fault but don't believe any of the Victron SCCs do.
I need your help. I did the generator start/stop method and it is working perfectly except one thing, every time it gets to the battery SOC level to activate the AC input on my Multiplus I get an alarm on my Cerbo GX “generator not detected at AC input” even though I get this alarm everything works as expected, the AC input is enabled and the batteries are charged to the set levels. How can I disable or modify this alarm?
Hmm, haven't seen that message before. Under Settings -> System Setup what do you have set for AC input 1 as well as "Monitor for grid failure"?
@@AdamDeLay07 I think I may have it figured out. There was a setting to detect generator at AC 1, it was switched on. I’m now testing it with that setting switched off. I’ll see if I get any more alarm notifications this way
hi, I have been using your configuration for several months, I have a system with PV inverter, today I updated the multiplus 2 to v510 and from that moment when the AC relay switches off the muliplus increases the frequency to 53hz, if I manually disconnect the power supply does not. can you give me a solution? thanks Fabio from Italy
Howdy Fabio. Hmm, can't say that I've ever seen the freq change when it wasn't supposed to. Do you have any other assistants running in the MP?
hi, yes I have the assistant for the PV inverter, but it never gave me problems with the old version of the multiplus, I think the only solution is to control an external relay. Thank you@@AdamDeLay07
@@Lulastyle I do have some other assistants configured but not for a PV inverter. I might suggest asking on community.victronenergy.com/index.html and see if anyone else is experiencing the same issue with frequency shift after the update.
I've been playing around with the VS for a while for this. Using the Cerbo Gen function is a great idea. One question. You have the Cerbo relay wired as NC. Shouldn't that be NO? What am I missing?
Thanks!
I know what you mean. My initial thought when I wired everything up was to wire the cerbo as NO as well, but when I did that (with the same assistant configuration) everything worked in reverse. I'm not sure if "closed" for the Aux input is backwards of our understanding of closed or not.
@@AdamDeLay07 Interesting. I just set this up on my MP2 -2x120 and it isn't doing anything at all. It's live on mains regardless if the generator is "running" or not. Any ideas?
@@williamsmith648 whatever wire your using to connect the inverter and the cerbo, check and make sure you’ve got a good connection of the wire in the terminals. I had that problem happen and it turns out that one terminal was biting on the coating of the wire instead of the actual wire.
You could also test disconnecting the wires from the cerbo and then touch the wire ends together and separate. Make sure that you hear the relay connecting and disconnecting.
@@williamsmith648 I got a notice saying you posted a reply, but I don't see that reply. Did you get things figured out?
@@AdamDeLay07 Thought I had it solved, but no. I noticed my general user flag was at the top of the list of assistants so I deleted and re added it to the bottom. Things appeared to be working then. Gen function would start and stop properly under the configured load conditions. However the AC was not being ignored. Not sure why.
Why is the Advanced tab missing at 13:00. Seemed to be there earlier.
The Advanced tab was added in a later firmware update. I don't see any reference to it earlier in the video.
Thanks that clears it up! 2:20 it was mentioned. That's why I got confused.
At 9:30 you said "AND when the load is higher" and at 9:41 you said "OR when the SOC is higher", however I think that second OR should have also been an AND, and I think it's an important distinction so I'm just checking - is that correct? (EDIT - or was that first AND actually supposed to be an OR? Now I'm super-confused :)
First off, THANK YOU for using timestamps. It makes things so much easier to know what you’re asking about!
So they both should be “OR”. Each one is its own trigger (SOC or Output).
@@AdamDeLay07 Awesome! That clears that up and now I understand. Thank you for taking the time to reply :)
And now replying to myself... I wonder how you could achieve 'and' functionality instead!
@@pete3897 I’m not sure that you can with the assistants. I believe it’s strictly an “either/or” case.
Now I do wonder if it’s possible to do with Node Red. I understand that to be EXTREMELY customizable.
What is the difference between this method and setting the mp to “inverter only” via the online radio button?
The biggest thing that comes to mind is manual vs automatic. If you never need AC In, then the switch should be fine for you. If you need AC in to help with loads or when SOC is low, then the switch in the VRM won’t help you unless you manually make the change.
Thank you. Sounds like not much difference, as I am thinking about switching this switch via dbus/modbus (com.victronenergy.vebus, address 33, 1=Charger Only;2=Inverter Only;3=On;4=Off). This way I don't need such a cable and have the same (?) result as you. - But in any case: Thank you for bringing that idea, at all. @@AdamDeLay07
@@dirksteinkopf You're welcome! As long as you can change it automatically, ultimately I don't think it matters. Good luck!
It would be interesting to show a procedure how to connect the Victron system with the Home Assistant application, where the solar system has a predefined solar monitoring environment, it just needs to be supplied with data from the solar system. The advantage of this would be home automation without the requirement to connect cables between devices to turn on/off based on battery SOC for example.
I'm doing this with node red. There is a philips hue plugin for node red that allows you to control lights and smart plugs.
I guess there is also a "solar assistant". That might be what you are looking for.
@@andrewborntrager7909 Yes, I know the Solar Assistant, it can also be connected to Home Assistant, I like it and it is for All-In-One inverters.
The advantage of integrating the Solar System into Home Assistant is that you can connect many electrical devices to it, which can then be programmed to work together or according to the Solar System based on the programmed relationships between them.
@@Jhovan33any links to the info ?
Hey cool video but it doesn't work for me. As you show in your video 13:02, nothing has changed for me on this point. What could be the cause here? Thank you very much and keep up the good work!!! Greetz from Belgium
Howdy William! Thanks for checking in!
So just to confirm, you've added the 3 assistants to your inverters, wired the cable between the inverter and cerbo and then added the generator controls to the cerbo relay?
@@AdamDeLay07 yes
@@williamhuylebroeck9668 If you remove the cerbo relay wires (leaving the other wires connected inside the inverter) and touch them together, does the inverter switch between AC IN and battery? You may have to leave them connected for a few seconds. That will let you know if there's an issue on the cerbo side or the inverter side.
I would also double check that your wires are all properly seated in their respective terminals. I had a heck of a time trying to get them to seat properly in the cerbo terminal block.
@@AdamDeLay07 I tried that and nothing happened.
@@williamhuylebroeck9668 Then I would double check that your wires are in the correct terminal block. It can be very easy to accidentally put one wire in the wrong terminal block pair...don't ask me how I know that... 😁
I would then double check that the relay you assigned in the assistant is the same one you wired into.
If the wiring and assistants are correct, if you connect the wires together in Aux 1, the relay should close for AC IN.
Now let me ask you this, you do have power going to AC IN as well, correct? If there's no power, the relay won't close.
I would just use a manual circuit breaker as a switch or a changeover switch for different sources of ac power.
Yep, defiantly an option if you want to keep things manual. I just don’t want to lose power in the middle of the night because I forgot to manually change back over to the grid when my batteries were getting low.
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Intriguing idea. One thing I'm not clear about is is whether the SOC and AC LOAD conditions are AND logic or are they OR logic? I would like to do something different with my much smaller system. I would like to use assistants to keep the battery in a narrow range so that the solar has somewhere to go, but still have significant battery for a grid failure. At the same time, I don't want to ignore AC IN unless it can be automatically be turned on quickly if the load increases. I understand that ESS might be able to do some of this, but I don't ever want to feed power to the grid with all the attendant hassles. ESS seems focused on feeding excess power into the grid, but there are hints that it doesn't have to.
They’re OR conditions. If the SOC gets below X or power output gets over X.
At some point I’ll dig into ESS, but I can’t have anything flowing back to the grid.
@@AdamDeLay07 My understanding is that the code requirement is that "anti-islanding" in certified inverters has to react within 2 seconds, and that seems to be how the MultiPlus II works. Talking with Jason at Current Connected, he doesn't believe that there is a way to guarantee that no power would ever be sent to the grid with ESS. I believe that's the case with Solark and others as well. That's why I am intrigued with your solution. I set my system up with the generator relay, but for now have AC IN manually enabled in the Cerbo. I will play with auto conditions to see how they work in practice on my system.
@@larrylp2192 from the research that I’ve done, it seems like no inverter can really promise 100% that there will not be any backfeeding to the grid. A lot of these inverters tend to draw a certain amount of power from the grid to help prevent any from going back towards the grid. These multi plus inverters can do the same, but I’m like you, this generator control seems to really make things function the way that I want to, without having to worry about anything flowing back towards the grid.
Agreed. Unrelated topic. I was doing some testing of efficiency vs. load on my system and I was surprised to find that efficiency of my system drops to about 85% when pushing it. Even at rated output, it drops to 93% or so. I verified that there is virtually no loss in the battery cabling (~8W at 50% over rated output). Then I went back and looked at some of your load tests. I don't know if you ever reported on efficiency per se', but looking at your remote console screen captures I was able to verify that your efficiency is in the same ballpark as mine. I was impressed by the low idle consumption spec, but that's dwarfed by the inverter losses at even moderate consumption levels. Did you ever look into efficiency at various power levels with the EG4s, or can you glean this from your Solar Assistant historical data?
@@larrylp2192 I don’t think you can get accurate efficiency ratings off the remote console. Realistically you have to measure each inverter individually by putting a clamp meter on the input and the output.
I never did do any efficiency testing on the 6500s either. I was probably too worried about what I would find… 😁
Ciao Adam in 09:21... I think your Assistants logic is backward. You're switching General Flag ON when you want AC, but GF is set to Ignore AC.
Thanks! You're absolutely correct. I had found this out after I released the video but forgot all about updating the description to inform people. At the time my mind was thinking "relay on" was allowing power through, not considering it was Ignoring AC.
I'll add it to the description now before I forget again! Thanks!
Adam in Italy they say, "when you work you sometimes make mistakes, if you don't work you never make mistakes.", Anyway, your videos are great!
@@manuelel1964 That's a great statement! Thanks a lot!
Be carefull about ESS, becuase it is not possible to maintain zero feed-in. Regarding relays in manual state, this is necessary for NodeRed. I am using NodeRed for control of ACout2.
Thanks for the heads up!
I gotta say.. as someone about to get in to Victron.. that GUI is looking very dated. I hope their new OS GUI is revamping all the old GUI and modernizing all that? I plan on starting with a Multiplus II 3000 or 5000 and a Cerbo GX with a 48v battery I built. Eventually adding on more.
They’re doing what looks to be a full rewrite for the GUI.
th-cam.com/video/gGCxxiSB1lc/w-d-xo.html
Have fun getting into the Victon environment!
@@AdamDeLay07 Just to be sure.. you say "have fun" because.. you mean it's actually good.. or was that sarcasm and it's not so good? I was looking at EG4 too, but Victron I have read is overall a bit better hardware and their new OS is hopefully going to unify everything and make it better.. I hope.
@@b3owu1f I actually mean have fun! Enjoy the journey!