Why move somewhere that you cannot own land or a house? Why move somewhere that even if you are married to a local you still have to submit pictures to Immigration of your wife and house on a regular basis and it's difficult to get citizenship? Here in the Caribbean you can own your own property, give it to your children or family. And once you're married to a local person you can get citizenship which means you can work, come and go, get a passport etc. Forget Thailand and being a second class resident and go somewhere that appreciates you.
Tax Laws are the Elephant in the Room, there is Zero Clarity on Expat income tax, Why-TF can't these Thai Politicians clear this mess up quickly, who wants to be taxed on retirement funds after paying income tax for 40+ years. Not all of us are wealthy.
The cost of living has definitely changed since when I came here 16 years ago, but I do live in Bangkok, i think in another 10 years it will be on par with Singapore, so the reason I think why people are leaving is the cost of living, Cambodia and Vietnam is the new place for expats
In my opinion, Thailand is becoming the country in SEA where you will need a decent amount of money to live there long term. Not saying they are the only ones but they are somewhat leading the way in that area. And when travel times decrease for Americans/American lights (Canadians) prices will only go up.
Retired expat from the US living here six years. Has been great. Have a wonderful Thai partner. Every day amazing. Dont miss the US for a moment. Im not going anywhere.
I find it weird that people say you can’t buy a house in Thailand…in a way you can’t…but in a way you can…you can’t buy one in America either. The property taxes in America never go away, neither does the home insurance. I have a friend in huahin that bought a decent house 6 years ago for 75k usd. He sold his paid off home in Los Angeles and put the vast majority of what he made into VOO etf and has spent his days living in Thailand living off his SSI.
As long as Thailand keeps honoring what they promise at time of sign up, I see no issues. Look at the first 1m Thai baht lifetime elite visas…most of those people are still very satisfied with their investment.
Personally I'm starting to feel the effect of the hot weather and pollution as I get older. It's also true that back 'home' taxes an politicians are unsufferable so Thailand seems to be still the best place to live in 2024
It IS good here on Cape Cod in the US but I STILL can't wait to get back on a series of Cathay Pacific flights to get from Boston back to Chiang Mai--there's ALWAYS something to do in the kingdom and if you DO get bored, so many other wonderful places are very close by like Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.! Kob khun mahk for ANOTHER great video, Jon!
Some great thoughts, John. I wouldnt discount the weather (constant sweating/sweaty coithes). One thing you alluded to is signiicant ( the idea of being left behind). Lived in Japan several years...odd feeling when an expat you clicked with left.
Unfortunately we have no numbers/statistics to know about the number of people really leaving and how it compares to other country. One point in my mind: may be Thailand attracts more people to settle in compared to other countries as it appears to be very easy (rent, purchase condo, move to other places, services). "Easy in" then also results in "faster out"....
Yes I think in most cases it's a package of things, I am from Poland but I have lived in New Zealand for 26 years. For the first 15 - 20 years whenever coming back to New Zealand after an overseas trip felt like coming back home. But not anymore. The culture ,food, people, mentality and climate all contribute to this feeling.. I do miss Europe a lot. I can imagine the Europeans might feel even more isolated in Thailand as the cultural differences between Thais and Europeans are huge .Not mentioning the barrier of learning a tricky language,
I also want to add that learning a language doesn't necessarily ease the cultural differences. Just because you speak the language, doesn't mean you are going to necessarily feel more integrated into the culture. I think a lot of people miss this point
@@Ned88Man my experience is totally contrary to this. Learning the language of the country you either choose to live in, or travel in, makes a feeling of being integrated into the local culture and an ability to communicate with local people in their own language elevates the experience a hundred-fold. I have learnt this through living in India for more than a decade and being able to communicate effectively in a couple of Indian languages (Hindi, Gujurati, Punjabi), spending extended time in Pakistan and speaking Urdu, and four years in Russia where I became highly conversational in Russian. Without speaking locally I would not have met half of the close friends I still have in each country (as they are all non-English speakers). I think language is fundamental to being integrated to a country where English is not widely spoken, or even in a place like the Philippines, knowing Tagalog will lift your experience beyond the ordinary and show the locals that you are more than a visitor.
@@ginty9041 Good points, but I dont think that just because you learn a language, you are going to be necessarily integrated or understand the culture any better. That being said, those that understand the culture best and have integrated, speak the language.
Even for me, staying only 2 month/y in the last years in Thailand gets a bit boring although i still like it. I can imagine for a permanent resident this "adaption" could evolve further and result in looking for a change, especially if downsides like, heat, pollution etc. continue to hit...
You can get stuck in a rut anywhere. I've been living overseas since 1977. Now, as we age what is important changes, we get bored, we can't do certain activities in our 60s we did in our 20s (hours of tennis). Frankly, excessive and relentless heat is tiresome just as freezing cold is. Been a Brit expat who lived in the USA (30years) and the past 15 years in Australia. Frankly embracing a totally different culture, e.g., Vietnam or Thailand or Cambodia and reading their respective histories is appealing, let alone I love Asian food. Not having to worry constantly about the COL, is offset against having to worry about health insurance and relentless heat. It's a trade off. In my past life, finance, its the old Opportunity Cost. If it gets too hot there is always Albania, as a US passport holder no visa for 12 months then simply convert over to extended stay - easy peasy. No income tax on foreign pensions, and if you do work its only 15% tax. It ain't nowhere near as hot! There are always choices! Nothing is permanent.
Yeah I can see that, I'm actively trying to not get stuck in rut now I've moved to Chiang Mai. Plan to live here very long term so I think this is the way to go :)
I think these people leave because they are not committed to the country. We know these immigrants are transitory as they most likely have not obtained the appropriate visa which leads them onto the path of naturalised citizenship, and yes these visas do exist. Also, not learning to speak Thai is a major indicator of lack of commitment. Most Western immigrants live in immigrant enclaves in the various tourist towns. They primarily associate with other westerners, speaking English, eating Bangers 'n Mash, but once in a while trying Pad Kra Pao with no chilis. So, basically trying to maintain the life they left in the motherland rather than adapting to the new environment they thought they wanted. As for British migrants to Thailand, if they wanted a warm mini-UK, then they should have moved to the Cayman Islands or Bermuda. But we know the expensive lifestyle on these islands is the reason why they wouldn't move there.
And whats wrong with Pad Kra Pao with no chillis? I spend half the year in Thailand and still like Thai meals without chillis. They arent the be all to end all.
I know MANY people in my 10 years living abroad of people who quickly get disillusioned by the culture and other reasons. That happens everywhere. I guess we are the ones who have to witness it! By the way Jon, nice wrist color you got there. How'd you get that sunburn?
Some people don’t bring enough money to begin with or lose assets in a divorce and need to go back home and work again. Poor health is another reason, not great if you are seriously ill in a foreign country even if the medical care is a very good standard. People are concerned about the new tax situation and also may get fed up with the bureaucracy I spent 6 months in Thailand last year and can’t decide yet if I want to live there and maybe holidays are better.
Hi Johnny Could you give your insights into buy a house in Thailand And the 30 year lease on the land Personally it might work for me As I'm in my 50s and I wouldn't necessarily be worried about leaving anything to anyone in a will " are there pitfalls in the lease laws ? Thanks in advance 🤝
I've never looked into a lease tbh but I think they are pretty secure. If you were to buy a house on a 30 year lease you'd be fine, just use a good lawyer to help :)
Job Insecurity, therfore not being able to plan for the future, Kids education, Pollution/ traffic in BKK & parents health in UK deteriorating were the main factors for us moving back to UK. My wife and I will move back when retired and kids have gone through their education. Still have our house in BKK which we rent out.
Why move somewhere that you cannot own land or a house? Why move somewhere that even if you are married to a local you still have to submit pictures to Immigration of your wife and house on a regular basis and it's difficult to get citizenship? Here in the Caribbean you can own your own property, give it to your children or family. And once you're married to a local person you can get citizenship which means you can work, come and go, get a passport etc. Forget Thailand and being a second class resident and go somewhere that appreciates you.
What Caribbean are you talking about??
And get robbed and killed in the Caribbean for blinging?
No thanks!
Tax Laws are the Elephant in the Room, there is Zero Clarity on Expat income tax, Why-TF can't these Thai Politicians clear this mess up quickly, who wants to be taxed on retirement funds after paying income tax for 40+ years. Not all of us are wealthy.
people leave because the rose colored glasses come off and they find there are better places to be.
Yep I can see that
Latin America?
@@williamdieffenbach3264 possibly
There's only on reason to move to Thailand. 🐈. When that is no longer an option, it's time to move on.
The cost of living has definitely changed since when I came here 16 years ago, but I do live in Bangkok, i think in another 10 years it will be on par with Singapore, so the reason I think why people are leaving is the cost of living, Cambodia and Vietnam is the new place for expats
In my opinion, Thailand is becoming the country in SEA where you will need a decent amount of money to live there long term. Not saying they are the only ones but they are somewhat leading the way in that area. And when travel times decrease for Americans/American lights (Canadians) prices will only go up.
Yeah I can see that, it's not the cheap place it was unfortunately
Vietnam is awesome! ✌️
Retired expat from the US living here six years.
Has been great. Have a wonderful Thai partner. Every day amazing.
Dont miss the US for a moment. Im not going anywhere.
Cool! Yeah me too, no plans to leave :)
The term "partner" should be reserved only for people in business together, not people in romantic relationships.
V@@roythousand13 How about looking up the definition of partner? What in that definition isnt applicable to here?
@@maxineb9598 , I refused to use the term "partner" when it comes to romantic relationships! That's some new age nonsense.
I find it weird that people say you can’t buy a house in Thailand…in a way you can’t…but in a way you can…you can’t buy one in America either. The property taxes in America never go away, neither does the home insurance. I have a friend in huahin that bought a decent house 6 years ago for 75k usd. He sold his paid off home in Los Angeles and put the vast majority of what he made into VOO etf and has spent his days living in Thailand living off his SSI.
As long as Thailand keeps honoring what they promise at time of sign up, I see no issues. Look at the first 1m Thai baht lifetime elite visas…most of those people are still very satisfied with their investment.
Yeah, you can buy the house but not the land, agree about the US, if you have to pay high taxes in perpetuity can you really say you own it :)
Personally I'm starting to feel the effect of the hot weather and pollution as I get older. It's also true that back 'home' taxes an politicians are unsufferable so Thailand seems to be still the best place to live in 2024
Yep, I think Thailand is a great place to live, I'm good with the heat but it took some getting used to :)
There's no politicians in Thailand?
@@sociallypatterneddefect9580 yeah but they don't affect me much as foreigner
It IS good here on Cape Cod in the US but I STILL can't wait to get back on a series of Cathay Pacific flights to get from Boston back to Chiang Mai--there's ALWAYS something to do in the kingdom and if you DO get bored, so many other wonderful places are very close by like Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.! Kob khun mahk for ANOTHER great video, Jon!
Thanks Sean!
Some great thoughts, John. I wouldnt discount the weather (constant sweating/sweaty coithes). One thing you alluded to is signiicant ( the idea of being left behind). Lived in Japan several years...odd feeling when an expat you clicked with left.
Unfortunately we have no numbers/statistics to know about the number of people really leaving and how it compares to other country. One point in my mind: may be Thailand attracts more people to settle in compared to other countries as it appears to be very easy (rent, purchase condo, move to other places, services). "Easy in" then also results in "faster out"....
Yeah that's a good point. Easy to stay temporarily but anything long term gets hard.
Yes I think in most cases it's a package of things, I am from Poland but I have lived in New Zealand for 26 years. For the first 15 - 20 years whenever coming back to New Zealand after an overseas trip felt like coming back home. But not anymore. The culture ,food, people, mentality and climate all contribute to this feeling.. I do miss Europe a lot. I can imagine the Europeans might feel even more isolated in Thailand as the cultural differences between Thais and Europeans are huge .Not mentioning the barrier of learning a tricky language,
I also want to add that learning a language doesn't necessarily ease the cultural differences. Just because you speak the language, doesn't mean you are going to necessarily feel more integrated into the culture. I think a lot of people miss this point
Yep I'd agree that it's a lot of small reasons in many cases for people leaving.
@@Ned88Man my experience is totally contrary to this. Learning the language of the country you either choose to live in, or travel in, makes a feeling of being integrated into the local culture and an ability to communicate with local people in their own language elevates the experience a hundred-fold. I have learnt this through living in India for more than a decade and being able to communicate effectively in a couple of Indian languages (Hindi, Gujurati, Punjabi), spending extended time in Pakistan and speaking Urdu, and four years in Russia where I became highly conversational in Russian. Without speaking locally I would not have met half of the close friends I still have in each country (as they are all non-English speakers). I think language is fundamental to being integrated to a country where English is not widely spoken, or even in a place like the Philippines, knowing Tagalog will lift your experience beyond the ordinary and show the locals that you are more than a visitor.
@@ginty9041 Good points, but I dont think that just because you learn a language, you are going to be necessarily integrated or understand the culture any better. That being said, those that understand the culture best and have integrated, speak the language.
Even for me, staying only 2 month/y in the last years in Thailand gets a bit boring although i still like it. I can imagine for a permanent resident this "adaption" could evolve further and result in looking for a change, especially if downsides like, heat, pollution etc. continue to hit...
Yeah I can see that
Pollution is the real downside. It’s always there .
The grass isnt always greener on the other side. You need to make sure every time you move you arent taking baggage with you.
thanks for creating and sharing
Thanks mate
You can get stuck in a rut anywhere. I've been living overseas since 1977. Now, as we age what is important changes, we get bored, we can't do certain activities in our 60s we did in our 20s (hours of tennis). Frankly, excessive and relentless heat is tiresome just as freezing cold is. Been a Brit expat who lived in the USA (30years) and the past 15 years in Australia. Frankly embracing a totally different culture, e.g., Vietnam or Thailand or Cambodia and reading their respective histories is appealing, let alone I love Asian food. Not having to worry constantly about the COL, is offset against having to worry about health insurance and relentless heat. It's a trade off. In my past life, finance, its the old Opportunity Cost. If it gets too hot there is always Albania, as a US passport holder no visa for 12 months then simply convert over to extended stay - easy peasy. No income tax on foreign pensions, and if you do work its only 15% tax. It ain't nowhere near as hot! There are always choices! Nothing is permanent.
Yeah I can see that, I'm actively trying to not get stuck in rut now I've moved to Chiang Mai. Plan to live here very long term so I think this is the way to go :)
Thumbs up 👍 Jon
I think these people leave because they are not committed to the country. We know these immigrants are transitory as they most likely have not obtained the appropriate visa which leads them onto the path of naturalised citizenship, and yes these visas do exist. Also, not learning to speak Thai is a major indicator of lack of commitment. Most Western immigrants live in immigrant enclaves in the various tourist towns. They primarily associate with other westerners, speaking English, eating Bangers 'n Mash, but once in a while trying Pad Kra Pao with no chilis. So, basically trying to maintain the life they left in the motherland rather than adapting to the new environment they thought they wanted. As for British migrants to Thailand, if they wanted a warm mini-UK, then they should have moved to the Cayman Islands or Bermuda. But we know the expensive lifestyle on these islands is the reason why they wouldn't move there.
Interesting take, I've lived in Thailand for 18 years but still like bangers and mash :)
And whats wrong with Pad Kra Pao with no chillis? I spend half the year in Thailand and still like Thai meals without chillis. They arent the be all to end all.
You gonna be careful always being good boy for expats in Thailand otherwise just little thing could cost big problem
According Thai Kru YT 50% of retired people are going back home.
That's a lot of people leaving!
Buy yourself an actual bicycle Jon, you have Doi Suthep / Doi Pui on your doorstep. You are very lucky with your location.
Yeah I've got a bicycle, keep meaning to get back out on it!
I know MANY people in my 10 years living abroad of people who quickly get disillusioned by the culture and other reasons. That happens everywhere. I guess we are the ones who have to witness it! By the way Jon, nice wrist color you got there. How'd you get that sunburn?
On the bike to Chiang Rai, my jacket wasn't secured properly - I won't make that mistake again haha :)
If you come to Thailand without prior research and knowleage, your a goose.
I left after 4 years the novelty wore off.
Some people don’t bring enough money to begin with or lose assets in a divorce and need to go back home and work again.
Poor health is another reason, not great if you are seriously ill in a foreign country even if the medical care is a very good standard.
People are concerned about the new tax situation and also may get fed up with the bureaucracy
I spent 6 months in Thailand last year and can’t decide yet if I want to live there and maybe holidays are better.
Yeah some good points there
8. Mass tourism! Comfortably crowded has gone to over crowded.
9. Russian mafias
Don't forget the smoke and air pollution there, at obscene levels in burning season, not for asthmatics or anyone interested in keeping healthy.
Girl/wife, sometimes they went admit that
Hi Johnny
Could you give your insights into buy a house in Thailand
And the 30 year lease on the land
Personally it might work for me
As I'm in my 50s and I wouldn't necessarily be worried about leaving anything to anyone in a will
" are there pitfalls in the lease laws ? Thanks in advance 🤝
I've never looked into a lease tbh but I think they are pretty secure. If you were to buy a house on a 30 year lease you'd be fine, just use a good lawyer to help :)
Why would some one want to go back England weather when u can have the sun in Thailand beats me
Yep, for me I'm good with the heat :)
Foreign Countries didn't work very well in Thailand
They are not expats and these are Vloggers or Poor Backpackers looking for jobs here man in Thailand.🙉
I think lot's of long term expats leave at some point
Job Insecurity, therfore not being able to plan for the future, Kids education, Pollution/ traffic in BKK & parents health in UK deteriorating were the main factors for us moving back to UK. My wife and I will move back when retired and kids have gone through their education. Still have our house in BKK which we rent out.
Interesting to know, yeah I can see the appeal for kids eduction in the UK, I spend loads here for a decent school.
Expat won't work in Thailand because specially in Southern Thailand they racist expat just little thing could cost you big trouble
Jon, I’m living in Chiangmai, drop me a line!.
Cool, best way to get me is on Instagram :)
Eastern Europe is nice and affordable except winter.