Very cool! The price is definitely steep, and the subscription for software plus card packs made to order is a concern I think. These things are difficult to "fututre-proof" in the sense that proprietary software and hardware is costly to produce and never at a fixed price. Dansih bridge has a system that correlates hands with contracts and leads, which I find is often enough for the post game analysis. It is obviously a game changer for teaching. That part is so huge! I imagine teachers have 50+ sets of boards for teaching that they track, and maybe the digitalization helps share them. Wonder how they hanndle claims?
This company is actually based out of Denmark as well. The correlating hands and leads is often enough for advanced players but beginners really aren't able to remember the bidding or the play on more than a couple of hands.
This would represent not only significant costs for local clubs, as well as training of players to overcome resistance. Some questions: Will this device accept and deal DUP or PBN files (e.g. Common Game deals, teacher composed lesson hands)? What are the terms of warranty? When/if a device fails or malfunctions, how does a club get repair service? Why is there a quarterly subscription fee?
We used this in a trial in a club game I think a couple of years ago that was doing the game in a barometer format which is one advantage of the just in time dealing. You need fewer board sets than traditional cards in the barometer setup. I think having the full hand records of the play would be great (although you also need people to keep accurate turned over tricks in the play - a number of people don't do that or shuffle quitted tricks either during the play or after the play which destroys the records).
Looking at the cost of a new duplicate dealing machine, it looks like this could be cost effective for small bridge clubs less than around 8 or so tables. However, most bridge clubs would usually already have bought a regular dealing machine. Maybe they would be in the market if the old machine died and couldn't be repaired. How does this Bridge Plus More record the play? Sticking cards back into the slot where the hands are first taken out? Seems like this could be nice for a table or two to use previously played tournaments (can this be done) to compare your results against possibly world class players. On the other hand, bridge seems to be headed to 100% electronic bridge, with bidding and play done on screen which has some advantages like complete recording of the auction and play, accurate timing of each bid and play, and preventing mechanical errors in bidding and play which eliminates a lot of director calls. For high level matches, players can be put in different rooms, or far away in the same room. For casual play, electronic play means you can play with 3 or more friends located all around the world.
If the players don't shuffle their cards but keep them in the played order and then you stack them one on top of the other and put it in the machine. As it is dealing it the next board it records which order they came in and attaches that to the board 2 before (there are two decks). It says the cards are trick 1-13 for player x then trick 1-13 for player y, etc.
@@BridgeWithPete OK, thanks, I see lots of players who are not meticulous in keeping their played cards in order, and occasionally I resemble that remark. Still, better than Bridgemates where either the opening lead isn't entered or a random one is.
Your success rate at 1N is a great example of the limitations of simple statistics. What the number doesn't show is how often you - and other experts - sign off in 1N as opposed to pursuing bad two- or three-level contracts, plus how often you use 1N as a preemptive tool (e.g., accepting -50 instead of -80 or -110.)
Very neat and gorgeous machine, love the idea. From a technical standpoint I want to know how exactly does it keep records of cardplay, you put each hand cards into this in some specific order? And how cumbersome (if not) is to deal with claims and director calls - for example due to failure to follow suit/false show out (which in club I play happens quite often). I'd love to see some demo tournament, 4 boards or so, that shows how these situations can be handled.
If the players don't shuffle their cards but keep them in the played order and then you stack them one on top of the other and put it in the machine. As it is dealing it the next board it records which order they came in and attaches that to the board 2 before (there are two decks). It says the cards are trick 1-13 for player x then trick 1-13 for player y, etc. It can work out when the play didn't continue in legal fashion which would often just be a claim and the cards are in any order but if players thought there might be a revoke as they put a hand into the machine a director would be able to see when legal play went till and check with the players.
Perhaps they should require the cards played to a trick be 'returned' to the machine before the next trick is played? The machine could display a running count of tricks won by NS and EW, and immediately flag any 'revokes' which may have gone completely unnoticed or until several tricks later.
RFID (radio frequency identification) chips are used in decks at poker tables which broadcast poker games.These would have to be the same, wouldn't they?
Has anyone tried these for bridge? How many radio receivers are needed per table? The cards alone look expensive at about $50 a deck, at one supplier that I found online.
I think a move to tablets is inevitable. Card-based alternatives are unsustainably expensive and slow down the game with no real benefit. You have to have a bridge-mate anyway, at least for pairs games. I'm not sure how long it will take, but I think it will be in our lifetimes.
If the players don't shuffle their cards but keep them in the played order and then you stack them one on top of the other and put it in the machine. As it is dealing it the next board it records which order they came in and attaches that to the board 2 before (there are two decks). It says the cards are trick 1-13 for player x then trick 1-13 for player y, etc.
Very cool! The price is definitely steep, and the subscription for software plus card packs made to order is a concern I think. These things are difficult to "fututre-proof" in the sense that proprietary software and hardware is costly to produce and never at a fixed price.
Dansih bridge has a system that correlates hands with contracts and leads, which I find is often enough for the post game analysis. It is obviously a game changer for teaching. That part is so huge! I imagine teachers have 50+ sets of boards for teaching that they track, and maybe the digitalization helps share them.
Wonder how they hanndle claims?
This company is actually based out of Denmark as well. The correlating hands and leads is often enough for advanced players but beginners really aren't able to remember the bidding or the play on more than a couple of hands.
This would represent not only significant costs for local clubs, as well as training of players to overcome resistance. Some questions:
Will this device accept and deal DUP or PBN files (e.g. Common Game deals, teacher composed lesson hands)?
What are the terms of warranty? When/if a device fails or malfunctions, how does a club get repair service?
Why is there a quarterly subscription fee?
We used this in a trial in a club game I think a couple of years ago that was doing the game in a barometer format which is one advantage of the just in time dealing. You need fewer board sets than traditional cards in the barometer setup. I think having the full hand records of the play would be great (although you also need people to keep accurate turned over tricks in the play - a number of people don't do that or shuffle quitted tricks either during the play or after the play which destroys the records).
People are in the habit of shuffling their cards but after a few weeks of doing this your would change that habit I think.
Looking at the cost of a new duplicate dealing machine, it looks like this could be cost effective for small bridge clubs less than around 8 or so tables. However, most bridge clubs would usually already have bought a regular dealing machine. Maybe they would be in the market if the old machine died and couldn't be repaired. How does this Bridge Plus More record the play? Sticking cards back into the slot where the hands are first taken out?
Seems like this could be nice for a table or two to use previously played tournaments (can this be done) to compare your results against possibly world class players.
On the other hand, bridge seems to be headed to 100% electronic bridge, with bidding and play done on screen which has some advantages like complete recording of the auction and play, accurate timing of each bid and play, and preventing mechanical errors in bidding and play which eliminates a lot of director calls. For high level matches, players can be put in different rooms, or far away in the same room. For casual play, electronic play means you can play with 3 or more friends located all around the world.
If the players don't shuffle their cards but keep them in the played order and then you stack them one on top of the other and put it in the machine. As it is dealing it the next board it records which order they came in and attaches that to the board 2 before (there are two decks). It says the cards are trick 1-13 for player x then trick 1-13 for player y, etc.
@@BridgeWithPete OK, thanks, I see lots of players who are not meticulous in keeping their played cards in order, and occasionally I resemble that remark. Still, better than Bridgemates where either the opening lead isn't entered or a random one is.
@@twostate7822 Yep but if people get benefits from keeping their cards in order I'm sure they would get better.
Your success rate at 1N is a great example of the limitations of simple statistics. What the number doesn't show is how often you - and other experts - sign off in 1N as opposed to pursuing bad two- or three-level contracts, plus how often you use 1N as a preemptive tool (e.g., accepting -50 instead of -80 or -110.)
The other issue is it is only 200 hands not others. Also once you have lots of statistics you can start to look deeper.
Very neat and gorgeous machine, love the idea. From a technical standpoint I want to know how exactly does it keep records of cardplay, you put each hand cards into this in some specific order? And how cumbersome (if not) is to deal with claims and director calls - for example due to failure to follow suit/false show out (which in club I play happens quite often). I'd love to see some demo tournament, 4 boards or so, that shows how these situations can be handled.
If the players don't shuffle their cards but keep them in the played order and then you stack them one on top of the other and put it in the machine. As it is dealing it the next board it records which order they came in and attaches that to the board 2 before (there are two decks). It says the cards are trick 1-13 for player x then trick 1-13 for player y, etc. It can work out when the play didn't continue in legal fashion which would often just be a claim and the cards are in any order but if players thought there might be a revoke as they put a hand into the machine a director would be able to see when legal play went till and check with the players.
Perhaps they should require the cards played to a trick be 'returned' to the machine before the next trick is played? The machine could display a running count of tricks won by NS and EW, and immediately flag any 'revokes' which may have gone completely unnoticed or until several tricks later.
I am member at a larger (400+) and very small(
It actually has things on the bottom so you can slide it off to the side.
RFID (radio frequency identification) chips are used in decks at poker tables which broadcast poker games.These would have to be the same, wouldn't they?
Has anyone tried these for bridge? How many radio receivers are needed per table? The cards alone look expensive at about $50 a deck, at one supplier that I found online.
I think a move to tablets is inevitable. Card-based alternatives are unsustainably expensive and slow down the game with no real benefit. You have to have a bridge-mate anyway, at least for pairs games. I'm not sure how long it will take, but I think it will be in our lifetimes.
I really did not understand the "review play" part of the functions. I understood the dealing, but not how a hand play gets recorded.
If the players don't shuffle their cards but keep them in the played order and then you stack them one on top of the other and put it in the machine. As it is dealing it the next board it records which order they came in and attaches that to the board 2 before (there are two decks). It says the cards are trick 1-13 for player x then trick 1-13 for player y, etc.
Those prices are in Euros not Pounds ;-)
Stupid Australian here
😊 Idiot-proofing... Works for me!