An Australian (such as myself) may have an alternate explanation for the words 'root', 'and' and 'boot' when used together in this fashion... I'll leave the explanation to Google... 😆
Lots of sweet boards coming out for the CM4! Looks like we won't be stuck with fixed ports/hardware configs like the regular PI4s. Setting the benchmark higher! :D
this was an excellent video, with valuable information not just regurgitated catch phrases: Thank you! Now I will have to go and binge on your channel and website...
'..educate yourself on privacy and don't do what paid sponsors tell you to do..' and then I pause and press the like button (and leave this comment). :) Nice
Thanks Jeff. I know this is an old video now. But just FYI, I received my Pi 5 this week, installed a 500Gb NVMe into the newer Argon M key case bottom. I used the copy utility, just like you did, but skipped all the terminal commands.. Shut down, pulled the SD card out, and rebooted. It worked flawlessly and booted right up with no issues. So looks like with the current OS (Nov. 22, 2023) it is pretty much a turnkey set up. Very cool. This Pi 5 is running on a 500Gb SSD w/ 4 Gb ram. My next one will be configured with 1Tb ssd & 8Gb. Testing local LLMs and robotics applications. :)
Surprisingly, only two! There was some other phrase earlier in the video that took like 8 takes to get. Sometimes two-word combos deliver a K.O. to my brain, apparently.
Wait...what?? I remember when the raspberry pi 4 was just released and people were like it's a waste of money and it's got no software support...now it has anything you want to run on it and the pi is the best thing in the wrold
Hass. Io or homeassistant is the best thing I e discovered. Amazing what you can do with a 35 dollar computer. Granted homeassistant can be installed many ways but hass. Io, which I believe is just the fork specific to the pi. Luckily I had a first or second generation nic and both video outputs don't function so I moved it to the nuc (sometimes it's good to be a border). Now it's fully supported on the pi4, not sure if it supports usb boot or not. I've got two pi 4s, one 4gb and one 2gb. Both are booting from usb. One from a no name MMC drive I bought of amazon, I think it was $35 for the 120 gig model. The other is for backups so I ended up getting a one terabyte and NVM drive. Surprisingly the no name MMC is faster than the brand name NVM drive. Below are the results, first is hdparm test using 1tb drive and second test is from cheaper MMC drive sudo hdparm-tT /dev/sda1 dev/sdal: Timing cached reads: 1698 MB in 2.00 seconds = 849.28 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 256 MB in 1.06 seconds 242.37 MB/sec sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda2 /dev/sda2: Timing cached reads: 1928 MB in 2.00 seconds = 964.91 MB /sec Timing buffered disk reads: 792 MB in 3.01 seconds = 262.9
2 lanes of PCIe on the next pi would be super nice, you'd be able to run a fast SSD AND a USB 3 controller. 120 GB M.2 SSDs are also quite affordable, easily in the typical pi range of prices (more than a small uSD card, but a reasonable price considering the speed and capacity)
Hey there Jeff, watched this video and replying to you from a Raspberry pi 4 running Manjaro Arm64 and this is so awesome! I can't wait for this to become a full native feature out of beta. I do Linux development, bug testing, gaming and more from my pi 4 and would I'd love to chat to you over voice call about Raspberry pi's as I could talk all day about how cool they are or even the stuff they can do.
0:16 Like WHAAAAAT! It is so weird when you see your name (Miroslav - Mirko as my mother would call me) used as a name of a PC. But it is designed by a Polish guy and I am Slovak (neighboring country). I was born maybe 70km south of the city where that guy lives. And I used to be PCB/Hardware developer as well!
I've used a 256GB micro SD card for years with my dash cam, it records 4K on the front camera, and 1080p on the rear camera, all to the same video card. The card has actually lasted longer than my old camera(1440p)
If you're into budget diy, you can build a custom power supply using a little USB-C power delivery modules that request the highest possible power out of your usb-c charger and then either use that directly or step it down using a digital buck-boost converter. You can make a simple and affordable bench power supply using few parts and a USB-C PD charger you may already have at home.
Instead of bloopers noise - some TH-camrs (e.g. CryptoDaily) put teasers from the previous video in the roll-out section, which encourages people to watch the previous videos. Anything, please, other than the bloopers. :)
Great stuff, thanks for sharing! Especially I liked that part where you talked about privacy in websites and how all the VPNs won't help. I build my websites the same way, selfhosted fonts and so on. Keep it going!
If I were the RPI fundation: - Another Pcie controller with x4. (for a total ow 1x1 and 1x4) - Another SDIO controller. Drop the old decoder for h264 and use something external the VPU to have proper driver like with h265. (So we have h25 and h24 decoder with open drivers and no firmware intervention) Move boot process and power management to an ARM Mx core like the RPI pico. That will manage boot process, and finally ATZ. Dual HDM is useless IMO. So i would drop it on standard boards. What else? More IOs on a furure CM module? Thats a lot but it would be awesome :)
I would like to see the wireless and Bluetooth chip, the wired network and USB3 all through PCI-e, as well as 4 lanes, and maybe one lane extra for some other fun extra, all through a PCI-e controller that at boot time can assign them as needed for the compute module version, which could have 8 PCI-e lanes going to the IO board. Then I'd like to see an IO board with a mini-ITX standard footprint, 1 miniPCI-e slot for a wireless/Bluetooth module, on board M.2 slot with 4 lanes connected, wired networking chip and USB chip on the IO board, and an available PCI-E x1 slot with an open back. Some extra stuff added to let it work with a standard ATX power supply or the new 12 volt only standard that seems to be upcoming, to let it fully shut down the power supply like a standard PC. I however really like the dual HDMI support, since I like to work with multiple screens. My current 3 screen setup is a downgrade from the 6 screen setup I ran for a short time while I was still trading stocks and commodities. For most hobby stuff there isn't much use for dual screens I suppose, and that is what the raspberry pi is originally meant for, but we have come a long way from there.
Looks like that the RPI4 soc have a dedicated emmc and SD0 and SD1 controller. So The main gain for next version I would love is only the additional PCI x4 and moving the video decode h264 out of the firmware.
@@dv7533 SDIO bus for WIFI and UART for BT is already good for the bandwidth they have no need to go to pcie. Dual HDMI could be there only for the CM modules on standard PIs this had some issues with the mini HDMI connectors hated by everyone. I would had loved a version on the CM4 without Eth PHY but with RGMII pins. So I could use whatever PHY I would want. All the other thing you ask is a IO board requirement not a SOC requirement.
Really Good Video Jeff! I also look forward to native nvme drive boot support for the Pi. By the way, I always get a kick out of your end-of-video outtakes.. Heh.. Keep up the good work!
My own limited experience with just very simple, basic Pi implementations is that they are - for whatever mysterious reasons - very picky about power supplies. I have tried power supplies that show correct voltages when tested separately and work well with other devices, but just cause strange behaviors on a Pi. Swapping to an "official" Pi supply clears the problem.
Works just fine with any good quality power supply. A good bet is always one that does not have any proprietary fast charging, and you're perfectly good to go.
Cooling is also a problem with pi4. Pi-foundation should think about a major redesign of pi5 for better cooling too. E.g. with the CPU on the backside of the board. Would enable good cooling (heatsink, heatspreader, activ cooling, ...) also with hats attached.
btw, you were having... "difficulty" explaining TRIM in a recent video ;) On the off-chance no one else's helped out a brother, let me explain, from an electronics engineer who understands Flash memory a little better than most ;). Unfortunately the term 'TRIM' doesn't at all explain what's going on. Flash memory isn't like RAM or a hard-drive, where you can over-write anything anywhere on a whim, with its prior contents disappearing, to be instantly replaced with your newly written data. No. Flash memory is arranged into 'blocks', and you can only erase Flash memory in block increments. Critically, you can't write new data to Flash memory until you've first erased it. *** Erasing a Block is a relatively slow process ***, compared to writes & especially compared to reads. Upon being asked by the file-system to write new data to the Flash drive, the file-system first has to erase that space, before then being able to proceed to write it; that's where we were a decade ago in terms of Flash write performance. TRIM is a protocol between file-system and SSD which coordinates, based on the file-system's awareness of which sectors are "deleted" (though still contain previously valid data) and which are not, to *periodically* erase SSD sectors (in block-sized increments) *after* you delete something at the file-system level, but "ideally" before you next try to write data back to that same sector; "ideally" in the sense that, ideally the system will have found some system idle-time in which to have snuck in a TRIM operation to ensure the file-system sectors marked as "deleted" are *actually* erased at the Flash level, ready for a future writing. p.s. your videos ROCK!
When you said "fastest pi performance possible for my particularly pertinent projects?" it just made me think of Captn Turbot. I know you have said you have kids. You may know who im talking about..
The thing is its so hard to find good power supplies outside of the standard one. If you need more power, there are no brand name supplies for you. You just have to buy the cheapo thing off Amazon and hope it isnt trash (spoiler, it is)
If you look at amazon they sell 18w Gan outlets for ten bucks. More than enough power. Just search amazon for 'USB C Charger, AUKEY Minima". That or PoE but that requires additional hardware unless you already have a PoE switch bit requires an adapyer. That or an injector.
Maybe carrying 4 lanes is challenging for the complexity on a simple RaspberryPi board, but upgrading the single lane to PCIe 3.0 and going for two lanes would already be a huge upgrade. It'll mean about 4 times more bandwidth on sequential, or at least double plus having another lane free for other peripherals
Ran a PCIe 2.0 system for 10 years myself so should be fine. I only recently upgraded my desktop after 10 years because I drooled over Samsung 980 pro 7000 MB/s speeds, so upgraded to PCIe 4.0. PCIe 4.0 is where nvme truely shines, I won't touch the raspberry Pi till supports PCIe 4.0 with Samsung 980 pro drive considering PCIe 5.0 around corner.
There's not really much point in that yet as the CPU isn't fast enough yet for that much extra RAM to matter. Heck, tfebomly reason my desktop has a ridiculous 32 gigs of RAM is for heavy image stacking processing for Astrophotography, working with complicated 3D models / physics simulations, and for that little edge of extra performance to smooth out VR games
Do you have a good PSU to recommend (apart from the official one)? USB chargers usually provide 5V 2.4A and the Pi 4 doesn't really like that. One with multiple USB slots for multiple Pis would be the best, but I haven't seen one that would provide more than 1A when multiple cables are connected.
I'd love to be able to process a time-lapse series on the Pi itself; current CPU is still slow enough I move the pictures off to my Mac to build the video file.
Hi Jeff , your videos are so easy to understand that even a 14 year old like me can do networking stuff like iperf , I even made a video on it today.....thank you for explaining it so good 😁
I had to chuckle a little bit at the fact someone built a breakout board for the Compute Module 4 that basically makes it a Raspberry Pi 4b. I know, I know, it adds an NVMe slot but but still.
And a headphone amp and clean line out, and a buzzer, and power switch, and RTC... among other things ;) - I'll be diving into the board in a little more detail later!
Previous predictions predicate the predictable presentation provided properly prior to previewing the previous product. You started the alliteration, not me. :P
Yet, another excellent video from Jeff! I tried my WD Black NVMe SSD on a Geekworm NVMe to USB board. Yes, it bottle necked at USB 3.0. But worse than that, the NVMe board required an auxiliary 5 VDC, which played havoc with the RPi 4's power. Then, I tried the exact same USB 3.0 adapter stick as Jeff's. But, that also required a powered USB hub. I've had a CM4 board with on board NVMe M.2 sitting on my shelf for 4 months, still waiting for my CM4 module to arrive :-( "Patience is a virtue." But, this is ridiculous.
Dang! I hope you can get one soon. I actually have a CM4 eMMC version that seems to be having strange issues booting-it will start in USB boot mode, so I can read/write to the eMMC, but for some reason I can't get it to boot up normally anymore. It might be something simple, not sure, and you might be able to get a serial console to it and figure it out... if you want it I'll ship it to you (as long as shipping is possible, not sure where you live!) and you can have a go at getting it working!
@@JeffGeerlingWow! Didn't see that one coming! That's a very gracious offer, Jeff. But, I'm retired and these projects are only a hobby to keep my brain active. So, I'm okay with waiting a little longer. It's partly my own fault for being impatient and cancelling my initial order, which was late in arriving in January. When I ordered again, it was supposed to ship by March. Maybe "It's in the mail." lol Perhaps you're eMMC problem explains the reason for the delay in my CM4 w/eMMC order. I'm moving on to laser projectors, anyway. Used to do shows a few decades ago, but never got them out of my system. Nowadays, for under $1K, I can blow away my old krypton/argon ion gas laser projector that cost ~$40K. That's irresistible. Love your videos. Always very informative and totally honest. You've taught me a lot. 'Thanks' is inadequate to express my appreciation. So I'll say, keep on being you and doing what you do. You're making the world a better place for thousands of ppl. :-)
@@TheOleHermit Oh man... projection tech has gotten SO much better in my lifetime. I am often tempted to dip my toes in that water-but I already have too many hobbies that take up too much of my budget and time :D
@@JeffGeerling WooHoo! My CM4 just arrived. On may 7th, I asked Canakit for the status on my order and received a shipping confirmation on May 10th. BTW, I now have an Intel I5 miniPC laser controller, with a 10 point multitouch 22" monitor, and an Akai APC40 mkii MIDI controller sitting in my living room. The twin 3 watt RGB laser projectors are due to arrive anytime soon. Total costs ~$2500. :-)
You might want to check out the Nvidia Jetson Xavier NX Developer Kit. It has an x4 PCIe Gen4 M.2 slot for an SSD. I think this should get around 16 times the bandwidth of the Pi. It's a lot more expensive than the Jetson Nano, but it already has an NVMe SSD slot. In 5 years I think NVMe SSDs will be just as ubiquitous as old 2.5 inch SSDs are now. I think they will be well suited for the Pi then. It's cool to see that support is coming.
@Jeff Geerling A direct comparison between a MirkoPc CM4 unit and a Celeron tier PC/104 module is at least to me of interest If the physical footprint of the MirkoPc board is 90mm2 than we get in the territory of the pc/104 standard and accompanying board form factor
with the current pi form factor, native 2280 mounting point seems impossible rn I would like pi foundation makes a pi-XL with pico-ITX form factor the pi form factor do hit a wall when PCIE is introduced
How many takes for you to say "fastest pi performance possible for my particularly pertinent projects?" I could see the pride in your face when you finished.
So wait is the MirkoPC limited to 3W 5A or is that just the charger it came with? Would be a shame that such an amazing project was bottlenecked because it can't pull enough juice.
I'm still trying to figure out the power input possibilities completely-working with the board designer on that. I will hopefully have more to say when I review the board more fully later!
Papa Jason told me to use DietPi using ramlogs and flush the buffer to disk at a lower frequency and higher throughput for flash storage to prevent noise.
How do you track your web site traffic, just using hosting? Man I'd love to clean all the excess code & script off my wordpress site with the dozens of plugins I'm using... Those pi's just keep getting better and better! Do you have any videos for testing power supplies for the pi? What are we looking for when we test?
I haven't done too much with testing other than sometimes grabbing my meter and watching things as the Pi powers up. I should probably dig into that at some point. For analytics, I now self-host Fathom Analytics, which is super light-weight, and doesn't use cookies at all. You don't get the same kind of data you get through GA or something like it, but it's respectful of privacy and loads twice as fast.
to add to jeffs comment, I can also recommend Plausible Analytics. Also incredibly light weight and the data is more then enough for most people. I personall wouldn't know what to do with all the data GA gives you anyway and this way I don't need a cookie banner :)
great video, can't wait to try this out. Unfortunately, I still lack a solution to copy the contents of CM4 emmc storage to m.2 NVME SSD - without usb adapter via cli (currently not available here - unfortunately).
All good stuff but I have a request for the foundation. Come out with a faster processor and lets bring it all together. I am willing to pony up a few more dollars.
Are we at the point where we can put together a pi4 compute module with a main board, a pcie sata card with 4-6 HD's in Raid running OMV or something similar without issues? That's my goal. Thanks.
No NVME is the reason I *didn't* buy the Pi 400 ( Pi and keyboard combined). It's crying out for bootable NVME. Hopefully they will update the model and I can finally invest in one!
I love how you keep pushing what can be done with the pi. I just wish I could find one I relly wont to use one as a isici or nfs server with my proxmox server.
Jeeeef 🥳 as always very interesting vid I like when you talk so nice relaxed smiling so i know everything is under good development ☺ Did you try to compare performance of RPi4 and the new Zero 2 ? I have just bought that new RPi4 8GB RAM, and that new Zero 2 W .... RPi4 is more a desktop, but Zero would be better for other projects, mobile robots, controlling system I would like to test them with SSD drive as they are more stable, trusted, and more space to use . Jeff, did you try to build a RAID array with Micro SD card, or SSD disk on RPi ? Thanks , have a good weekend 🙃
I use SD-Cards and they never get corrupt but in some point they are write protected. I can read 64 GByte completly but I can not delete or write to it anymore. I tested them on tons of comptatible card readers. That's why I don't like to use SDCards in Raspberry Pi. I got USB Flash Drives that runs more reliable than any SDCards.
I would be happy to just get my pi4b with usb3 to sata SSD working properly :( First it was super slow / stalled and after applying a fix it works but max speed seems to be 60-70 MB / sec. I hope with proper NVMe support in the future this gets a bit more reliable
Definitely worthwhile if you want to set it up that way. I typically just silence log files for anything besides errors if possible, and for a couple Pis, I have them log to a separate log aggregator.
Some numbers are wrong. If the NVMe requires 6.04s, eMMC 7.48s and microSD 9.48s, then the NVMe is 36.28% (not 44%) faster than the microSD and 19.25% (not 21%) faster than eMMC.
@@JeffGeerling You are using the formula for "Percentage Difference" and that is the mistake. If you have a starting and ending value or an "initial number" and a "final number" then you have to use this formula for "Percentage Change": |(V2-V1)|/V1*100 Example: NVMe requires 6.04s and microSD requires 9.48s. Then V1=9.48 (starting value) and V2=6.04 (ending value) and therefore|(6.04-9.48)|/9.48*100%=36.28%. Otherwise a great video!
Why do I feel a lot less stupid after watching your videos? Maybe because you never talk down to anyone, especially noobs like me. I may not understand certain specific specs but I do feel I get a better grasp on general concepts to the point that I know how to ask better questions. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Hi Jeff Love your channel. Very well made. Thanks! I have a question: do you know if it is possible to boot from an NVME SSD that is behind a PCI switch? I would like to have an SSD and a modem connected at the same time over PCI.
Could you do a video of showing how to boot of from an NVMe SSD on an existing raspberry os lite which has already software running? All videos so far I found on youtube showing new fresh installed setups.
These instructions are now out of date. The nvme subfolder of the usbboot project was recently eliminated and I use git to regress to an Aug 2 2021 commit to find the subfolder. After that it worked fine. There might be another way to get the bleeding edge bootloader but I tried the usbboot approach with the most recent commit, the Pi imager approach, and the raspi-config approach and all those approaches loaded a bootloader dated Feb 6 2021. Overall the instructions were succinct but complete except for this new development. By the way, the official Pi documentation was incomplete. I quess they are in the middle of moving this capability out of beta and so user beware.
My above comment suggest success. However, I was not able to get this to work despite trying several different boot loaders. I am waiting for this capability to be formally released. Until then I am content to just booting from SD but mounting the root file system from NVMe drive.
@@williamsnelling5733 thanks for the tip. I just got it to work by doing a git history and looking just before the release. No need to update the firmware as they dont support it yet.. Works awesome now!
Anyone used Raspberry Pi OS Lite version without graphical interface? What is the correct way to copy files and partitions (or clone) from eMMC to nvme without SD Card Copier? Reason is i want to use lite version as it's a server and don't want to bloat os with extra apps and programs.
well, I just bought one of those boards you wished for (well, the m.2 being on the underside) but I'm not exactly sure about how many lanes but it claimed it would have much faster speed than 400mb/s but I could be wrong about that... we'll just have to see when it comes in the mail over the next few weeks... i got the parts from 2 different places
"Use Good PSUs for ur Pi"
Also Jeff: * Uses cheapest PSU he could find to run 16 Hard Drives in a RAID. *
Hehehe. Do as I say and all that jazz...
Okay why are "root" and "boot" just so delightful when said together???
Anything that rhymes with snoot or boop are auto cute
It's the root'inest boot'inest rhyme!
Because it sounds like Root Beer. Mmmmm...beer.
An Australian (such as myself) may have an alternate explanation for the words 'root', 'and' and 'boot' when used together in this fashion...
I'll leave the explanation to Google... 😆
the rooty tooty fresh and fruity
"and no I'm not gonna segway into a sponsored segment for a vpn here"
I was sold!
Could have advertised a Segway Ninebot.
segue
Lots of sweet boards coming out for the CM4! Looks like we won't be stuck with fixed ports/hardware configs like the regular PI4s. Setting the benchmark higher! :D
I'd love a board for the CM4 using the Mini-ITX standard
It would be cool if the Pi5 would only come in CM form with an official, Pi4 sized IO board included in the box!
What I'd love to see is test equipment like scopes and such just use a compute module, so they'd be easy to hack with.
this was an excellent video, with valuable information not just regurgitated catch phrases: Thank you!
Now I will have to go and binge on your channel and website...
The alliteration was the perfect punctuation pertaining to Pi performance preferences... 🤣
'..educate yourself on privacy and don't do what paid sponsors tell you to do..' and then I pause and press the like button (and leave this comment).
:) Nice
I really thought he was about to make a segue way to a VPN ad.
Ditto!
Hehe, same
I hadn't noticed my animosity towards segways until that very moment...
Yup
Awesome alliteration about accelerated allocation of information.
I pretty much figured we'd have to wait until Pi5 to see full blown NVMe speeds.
Bring on the Pi5 with NVME :)
Poland, im proud :D
Thanks Jeff. I know this is an old video now. But just FYI, I received my Pi 5 this week, installed a 500Gb NVMe into the newer Argon M key case bottom. I used the copy utility, just like you did, but skipped all the terminal commands.. Shut down, pulled the SD card out, and rebooted. It worked flawlessly and booted right up with no issues. So looks like with the current OS (Nov. 22, 2023) it is pretty much a turnkey set up. Very cool. This Pi 5 is running on a 500Gb SSD w/ 4 Gb ram. My next one will be configured with 1Tb ssd & 8Gb. Testing local LLMs and robotics applications. :)
"... so I can get the fastest Pi Performance Possible for my Particularly Pertinent Projects."
#HowManyTakesToGetThatRight?
Surprisingly, only two! There was some other phrase earlier in the video that took like 8 takes to get. Sometimes two-word combos deliver a K.O. to my brain, apparently.
Ask asked the same should have checked, you beat me to the punch.
Wait...what??
I remember when the raspberry pi 4 was just released and people were like it's a waste of money and it's got no software support...now it has anything you want to run on it and the pi is the best thing in the wrold
Hass. Io or homeassistant is the best thing I e discovered. Amazing what you can do with a 35 dollar computer. Granted homeassistant can be installed many ways but hass. Io, which I believe is just the fork specific to the pi. Luckily I had a first or second generation nic and both video outputs don't function so I moved it to the nuc (sometimes it's good to be a border). Now it's fully supported on the pi4, not sure if it supports usb boot or not. I've got two pi 4s, one 4gb and one 2gb. Both are booting from usb. One from a no name MMC drive I bought of amazon, I think it was $35 for the 120 gig model. The other is for backups so I ended up getting a one terabyte and NVM drive. Surprisingly the no name MMC is faster than the brand name NVM drive. Below are the results, first is hdparm test using 1tb drive and second test is from cheaper MMC drive
sudo hdparm-tT /dev/sda1
dev/sdal:
Timing cached reads: 1698 MB in 2.00 seconds = 849.28 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 256 MB in 1.06 seconds 242.37 MB/sec
sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda2
/dev/sda2:
Timing cached reads: 1928 MB in 2.00 seconds = 964.91 MB /sec Timing buffered disk reads: 792 MB in 3.01 seconds = 262.9
2 lanes of PCIe on the next pi would be super nice, you'd be able to run a fast SSD AND a USB 3 controller. 120 GB M.2 SSDs are also quite affordable, easily in the typical pi range of prices (more than a small uSD card, but a reasonable price considering the speed and capacity)
Hey there Jeff, watched this video and replying to you from a Raspberry pi 4 running Manjaro Arm64 and this is so awesome! I can't wait for this to become a full native feature out of beta. I do Linux development, bug testing, gaming and more from my pi 4 and would I'd love to chat to you over voice call about Raspberry pi's as I could talk all day about how cool they are or even the stuff they can do.
0:16 Like WHAAAAAT! It is so weird when you see your name (Miroslav - Mirko as my mother would call me) used as a name of a PC. But it is designed by a Polish guy and I am Slovak (neighboring country). I was born maybe 70km south of the city where that guy lives. And I used to be PCB/Hardware developer as well!
Pozdrowienia z Krakowa dla kolegi rodaka projektanta tego cuda :)
I've used a 256GB micro SD card for years with my dash cam, it records 4K on the front camera, and 1080p on the rear camera, all to the same video card. The card has actually lasted longer than my old camera(1440p)
If you're into budget diy, you can build a custom power supply using a little USB-C power delivery modules that request the highest possible power out of your usb-c charger and then either use that directly or step it down using a digital buck-boost converter. You can make a simple and affordable bench power supply using few parts and a USB-C PD charger you may already have at home.
Instead of bloopers noise - some TH-camrs (e.g. CryptoDaily) put teasers from the previous video in the roll-out section, which encourages people to watch the previous videos. Anything, please, other than the bloopers. :)
Great stuff, thanks for sharing!
Especially I liked that part where you talked about privacy in websites and how all the VPNs won't help.
I build my websites the same way, selfhosted fonts and so on.
Keep it going!
If I were the RPI fundation:
- Another Pcie controller with x4. (for a total ow 1x1 and 1x4)
- Another SDIO controller.
Drop the old decoder for h264 and use something external the VPU to have proper driver like with h265. (So we have h25 and h24 decoder with open drivers and no firmware intervention)
Move boot process and power management to an ARM Mx core like the RPI pico.
That will manage boot process, and finally ATZ.
Dual HDM is useless IMO. So i would drop it on standard boards.
What else? More IOs on a furure CM module?
Thats a lot but it would be awesome :)
I would like to see the wireless and Bluetooth chip, the wired network and USB3 all through PCI-e, as well as 4 lanes, and maybe one lane extra for some other fun extra, all through a PCI-e controller that at boot time can assign them as needed for the compute module version, which could have 8 PCI-e lanes going to the IO board. Then I'd like to see an IO board with a mini-ITX standard footprint, 1 miniPCI-e slot for a wireless/Bluetooth module, on board M.2 slot with 4 lanes connected, wired networking chip and USB chip on the IO board, and an available PCI-E x1 slot with an open back. Some extra stuff added to let it work with a standard ATX power supply or the new 12 volt only standard that seems to be upcoming, to let it fully shut down the power supply like a standard PC. I however really like the dual HDMI support, since I like to work with multiple screens. My current 3 screen setup is a downgrade from the 6 screen setup I ran for a short time while I was still trading stocks and commodities. For most hobby stuff there isn't much use for dual screens I suppose, and that is what the raspberry pi is originally meant for, but we have come a long way from there.
Looks like that the RPI4 soc have a dedicated emmc and SD0 and SD1 controller. So The main gain for next version I would love is only the additional PCI x4 and moving the video decode h264 out of the firmware.
@@dv7533 SDIO bus for WIFI and UART for BT is already good for the bandwidth they have no need to go to pcie.
Dual HDMI could be there only for the CM modules on standard PIs this had some issues with the mini HDMI connectors hated by everyone.
I would had loved a version on the CM4 without Eth PHY but with RGMII pins. So I could use whatever PHY I would want.
All the other thing you ask is a IO board requirement not a SOC requirement.
Really Good Video Jeff!
I also look forward to native nvme drive boot support for the Pi.
By the way, I always get a kick out of your end-of-video outtakes.. Heh..
Keep up the good work!
your contents are priceless. gosh i have no choice but to subscribe. damn. very informative channels like your is a rare find.
I’m surprised the benchmark wasn’t compiling the Linux kernel. Not applicable for everyone but definitely applicable for this channel.
bro your channel is gold
5:00 Just for that you earned a new sub, kudos mate
10g networking, 8 PCIe lanes, with 8*1x slots on the back for a fast micro flash server
My own limited experience with just very simple, basic Pi implementations is that they are - for whatever mysterious reasons - very picky about power supplies. I have tried power supplies that show correct voltages when tested separately and work well with other devices, but just cause strange behaviors on a Pi. Swapping to an "official" Pi supply clears the problem.
Works just fine with any good quality power supply. A good bet is always one that does not have any proprietary fast charging, and you're perfectly good to go.
Well done as always Jeff, keep the knowledge coming!!!
Cooling is also a problem with pi4. Pi-foundation should think about a major redesign of pi5 for better cooling too. E.g. with the CPU on the backside of the board. Would enable good cooling (heatsink, heatspreader, activ cooling, ...) also with hats attached.
I would buy a PI 5 with your specs for sure.
Finally!!! I don't understand why this wasn't out of the box.
yeee POLAND my country :) keep goind and good luck
btw, you were having... "difficulty" explaining TRIM in a recent video ;) On the off-chance no one else's helped out a brother, let me explain, from an electronics engineer who understands Flash memory a little better than most ;). Unfortunately the term 'TRIM' doesn't at all explain what's going on.
Flash memory isn't like RAM or a hard-drive, where you can over-write anything anywhere on a whim, with its prior contents disappearing, to be instantly replaced with your newly written data. No. Flash memory is arranged into 'blocks', and you can only erase Flash memory in block increments. Critically, you can't write new data to Flash memory until you've first erased it. *** Erasing a Block is a relatively slow process ***, compared to writes & especially compared to reads.
Upon being asked by the file-system to write new data to the Flash drive, the file-system first has to erase that space, before then being able to proceed to write it; that's where we were a decade ago in terms of Flash write performance.
TRIM is a protocol between file-system and SSD which coordinates, based on the file-system's awareness of which sectors are "deleted" (though still contain previously valid data) and which are not, to *periodically* erase SSD sectors (in block-sized increments) *after* you delete something at the file-system level, but "ideally" before you next try to write data back to that same sector; "ideally" in the sense that, ideally the system will have found some system idle-time in which to have snuck in a TRIM operation to ensure the file-system sectors marked as "deleted" are *actually* erased at the Flash level, ready for a future writing.
p.s. your videos ROCK!
When you said "fastest pi performance possible for my particularly pertinent projects?" it just made me think of Captn Turbot. I know you have said you have kids. You may know who im talking about..
The thing is its so hard to find good power supplies outside of the standard one.
If you need more power, there are no brand name supplies for you. You just have to buy the cheapo thing off Amazon and hope it isnt trash (spoiler, it is)
90% of the time it is. Key is to overbuy, though-if you need 3A, make sure the supply is rated 5A :D
If you look at amazon they sell 18w Gan outlets for ten bucks. More than enough power. Just search amazon for 'USB C Charger, AUKEY Minima". That or PoE but that requires additional hardware unless you already have a PoE switch bit requires an adapyer. That or an injector.
You should get those tiny kioxia 1TB nvme drives for the raid card.
Maybe carrying 4 lanes is challenging for the complexity on a simple RaspberryPi board, but upgrading the single lane to PCIe 3.0 and going for two lanes would already be a huge upgrade. It'll mean about 4 times more bandwidth on sequential, or at least double plus having another lane free for other peripherals
Ran a PCIe 2.0 system for 10 years myself so should be fine. I only recently upgraded my desktop after 10 years because I drooled over Samsung 980 pro 7000 MB/s speeds, so upgraded to PCIe 4.0. PCIe 4.0 is where nvme truely shines, I won't touch the raspberry Pi till supports PCIe 4.0 with Samsung 980 pro drive considering PCIe 5.0 around corner.
wish adding a compute module could add an extra 4 or 8 GB ram to the Raspberry Pi 4 8GB to bring it to 12 gb or 16 gb ram.
There's not really much point in that yet as the CPU isn't fast enough yet for that much extra RAM to matter.
Heck, tfebomly reason my desktop has a ridiculous 32 gigs of RAM is for heavy image stacking processing for Astrophotography, working with complicated 3D models / physics simulations, and for that little edge of extra performance to smooth out VR games
Do you have a good PSU to recommend (apart from the official one)? USB chargers usually provide 5V 2.4A and the Pi 4 doesn't really like that.
One with multiple USB slots for multiple Pis would be the best, but I haven't seen one that would provide more than 1A when multiple cables are connected.
you can use pc power supplies witch are atleast 20 amps
That I/O pcb looks dope
Bty am more interested on its audio capabilities
Now that I think about it pi can be used for some dope hi-fi audio stuffs
Now just meed an M1 class CPU on a pi and I would be set!
I'd love to be able to process a time-lapse series on the Pi itself; current CPU is still slow enough I move the pictures off to my Mac to build the video file.
@@JeffGeerling Funny that, I actually lightly build timelapse seires on one of my pi4's. At about 1080 resolution, I get about 6 fps with ffmpeg
@@matthiaswandel Heh, I remember the one time I tried generating an MP4 on the Zero. It was like 0.2 fps. Never again!
@@JeffGeerling Could it be that hardware acceleration was not used somewhere in the rendering pipeline?
I wanted some SATA SSD vs NVMe SSD benchmarks, especially rand writes, its ok though I'll compare it from earlier videos
Kudos, well done! 😃👏👏👏
So excited to have all my Pis boot from NVME
Hi Jeff , your videos are so easy to understand that even a 14 year old like me can do networking stuff like iperf , I even made a video on it today.....thank you for explaining it so good 😁
iperf is such a nice little utility! (Though even a seemingly simple utility like iperf has a lot of depth and can be surprising in many situations!).
@@JeffGeerling yes ,but I was able to understand just enough to use it on a Pi 400, 3B+ ,. MacBook and another laptop
7:22 - Handy note about using good quality power supplies and the potential of microSD card corruption if one isn’t used 👍🏻
Hopefully people looking to upgrade theirs understands the difference between adding more amps and adding more volts.
_Educate yourself, don't just believe what somebody gets paid to tell you._
Big love for saying that, Jeff. Wish this was more common.
ever think about premiering these and chatting with your viewers like your live streams...
I would have watched it live! For sure at least today!
Every now and then I think about it... I just don't know how that affects a video. Might do it one of these times. Maybe the GPU video.
Easy solution for power issues, just need a 24V 2A addon moderboard adapter for R-PI.
Wow this Sounds very promising. Started to use a pi 400 as my daily university computer and sometimes it gets really a little bit to laggy
I really wish they had a version with a PCIe switch so it could have a built-in M.2 slot inside, plus USB 3.0 still.
@@JeffGeerling The 400 should just be a CM board
I had to chuckle a little bit at the fact someone built a breakout board for the Compute Module 4 that basically makes it a Raspberry Pi 4b. I know, I know, it adds an NVMe slot but but still.
And a headphone amp and clean line out, and a buzzer, and power switch, and RTC... among other things ;) - I'll be diving into the board in a little more detail later!
That oh man at the had me smiling.
Hi Jeff, which power supply you recommend for this kind of project, mirko board + cm4 + nmve?
7:59 But what is that power supply laying in my drawer? ;) Interesting video though.
Previous predictions predicate the predictable presentation provided properly prior to previewing the previous product.
You started the alliteration, not me. :P
Yet, another excellent video from Jeff! I tried my WD Black NVMe SSD on a Geekworm NVMe to USB board. Yes, it bottle necked at USB 3.0. But worse than that, the NVMe board required an auxiliary 5 VDC, which played havoc with the RPi 4's power.
Then, I tried the exact same USB 3.0 adapter stick as Jeff's. But, that also required a powered USB hub.
I've had a CM4 board with on board NVMe M.2 sitting on my shelf for 4 months, still waiting for my CM4 module to arrive :-(
"Patience is a virtue." But, this is ridiculous.
Dang! I hope you can get one soon. I actually have a CM4 eMMC version that seems to be having strange issues booting-it will start in USB boot mode, so I can read/write to the eMMC, but for some reason I can't get it to boot up normally anymore. It might be something simple, not sure, and you might be able to get a serial console to it and figure it out... if you want it I'll ship it to you (as long as shipping is possible, not sure where you live!) and you can have a go at getting it working!
@@JeffGeerlingWow! Didn't see that one coming! That's a very gracious offer, Jeff. But, I'm retired and these projects are only a hobby to keep my brain active. So, I'm okay with waiting a little longer.
It's partly my own fault for being impatient and cancelling my initial order, which was late in arriving in January. When I ordered again, it was supposed to ship by March. Maybe "It's in the mail." lol
Perhaps you're eMMC problem explains the reason for the delay in my CM4 w/eMMC order.
I'm moving on to laser projectors, anyway. Used to do shows a few decades ago, but never got them out of my system. Nowadays, for under $1K, I can blow away my old krypton/argon ion gas laser projector that cost ~$40K. That's irresistible.
Love your videos. Always very informative and totally honest. You've taught me a lot. 'Thanks' is inadequate to express my appreciation. So I'll say, keep on being you and doing what you do. You're making the world a better place for thousands of ppl. :-)
@@TheOleHermit Oh man... projection tech has gotten SO much better in my lifetime. I am often tempted to dip my toes in that water-but I already have too many hobbies that take up too much of my budget and time :D
@@JeffGeerling WooHoo! My CM4 just arrived. On may 7th, I asked Canakit for the status on my order and received a shipping confirmation on May 10th.
BTW, I now have an Intel I5 miniPC laser controller, with a 10 point multitouch 22" monitor, and an Akai APC40 mkii MIDI controller sitting in my living room. The twin 3 watt RGB laser projectors are due to arrive anytime soon. Total costs ~$2500. :-)
You might want to check out the Nvidia Jetson Xavier NX Developer Kit. It has an x4 PCIe Gen4 M.2 slot for an SSD. I think this should get around 16 times the bandwidth of the Pi. It's a lot more expensive than the Jetson Nano, but it already has an NVMe SSD slot.
In 5 years I think NVMe SSDs will be just as ubiquitous as old 2.5 inch SSDs are now. I think they will be well suited for the Pi then. It's cool to see that support is coming.
Super video! I applauded for A$2.00 👏
@Jeff Geerling
A direct comparison between a MirkoPc CM4 unit and a Celeron tier PC/104 module is at least to me of interest
If the physical footprint of the MirkoPc board is 90mm2 than we get in the territory of the pc/104 standard and accompanying board form factor
with the current pi form factor, native 2280 mounting point seems impossible rn
I would like pi foundation makes a pi-XL with pico-ITX form factor
the pi form factor do hit a wall when PCIE is introduced
Great work
This is actually exiting !!
How many takes for you to say "fastest pi performance possible for my particularly pertinent projects?" I could see the pride in your face when you finished.
So wait is the MirkoPC limited to 3W 5A or is that just the charger it came with? Would be a shame that such an amazing project was bottlenecked because it can't pull enough juice.
I'm still trying to figure out the power input possibilities completely-working with the board designer on that. I will hopefully have more to say when I review the board more fully later!
Papa Jason told me to use DietPi using ramlogs and flush the buffer to disk at a lower frequency and higher throughput for flash storage to prevent noise.
with wear leveling it shouldnt matter but may be useful for compressed file storage
How do you track your web site traffic, just using hosting? Man I'd love to clean all the excess code & script off my wordpress site with the dozens of plugins I'm using...
Those pi's just keep getting better and better!
Do you have any videos for testing power supplies for the pi? What are we looking for when we test?
I haven't done too much with testing other than sometimes grabbing my meter and watching things as the Pi powers up. I should probably dig into that at some point.
For analytics, I now self-host Fathom Analytics, which is super light-weight, and doesn't use cookies at all.
You don't get the same kind of data you get through GA or something like it, but it's respectful of privacy and loads twice as fast.
to add to jeffs comment, I can also recommend Plausible Analytics. Also incredibly light weight and the data is more then enough for most people. I personall wouldn't know what to do with all the data GA gives you anyway and this way I don't need a cookie banner :)
Hi Jeff. Great video! What power supply do you recommend?
great video, can't wait to try this out. Unfortunately, I still lack a solution to copy the contents of CM4 emmc storage to m.2 NVME SSD - without usb adapter via cli (currently not available here - unfortunately).
Jeff have your tried the RockPro64? It has 4 lanes of PCIe that I've successfully used to build a low powered SAS based ZFS NAS.
All good stuff but I have a request for the foundation. Come out with a faster processor and lets bring it all together. I am willing to pony up a few more dollars.
Are we at the point where we can put together a pi4 compute module with a main board, a pcie sata card with 4-6 HD's in Raid running OMV or something similar without issues? That's my goal. Thanks.
Hmm... just wait until Friday and you might find out!
@@JeffGeerling Ooh, Cliffhanger. Stay tuned next time
No NVME is the reason I *didn't* buy the Pi 400 ( Pi and keyboard combined). It's crying out for bootable NVME. Hopefully they will update the model and I can finally invest in one!
Dude you're doing such a great job but please simplify the graphs
I love how you keep pushing what can be done with the pi. I just wish I could find one I relly wont to use one as a isici or nfs server with my proxmox server.
Jeeeef 🥳 as always very interesting vid
I like when you talk so nice relaxed smiling so i know everything is under good development ☺
Did you try to compare performance of RPi4 and the new Zero 2 ?
I have just bought that new RPi4 8GB RAM, and that new Zero 2 W ....
RPi4 is more a desktop,
but Zero would be better for other projects, mobile robots, controlling system
I would like to test them with SSD drive as they are more stable, trusted, and more space to use .
Jeff, did you try to build a RAID array with Micro SD card, or SSD disk on RPi ?
Thanks , have a good weekend 🙃
Now that the pi has a dedicated gigabit ethernet, PCIE X4 is my biggest request for the next gen pi.
Honest to god I thought you were gonna do a VPN ad for a hot second.
Nice one. Love it.
My cluster provides 4.2 Amps / slot.
The supply can be 420 / 740 / 1.2KW
I really need to grab a CM4 to play with!!
If you can find one! For now you'd have to settle for one of the 1GB models... maybe a 2GB if you're lucky.
I use SD-Cards and they never get corrupt but in some point they are write protected. I can read 64 GByte completly but I can not delete or write to it anymore. I tested them on tons of comptatible card readers. That's why I don't like to use SDCards in Raspberry Pi. I got USB Flash Drives that runs more reliable than any SDCards.
I would be happy to just get my pi4b with usb3 to sata SSD working properly :( First it was super slow / stalled and after applying a fix it works but max speed seems to be 60-70 MB / sec. I hope with proper NVMe support in the future this gets a bit more reliable
Hi, as you are talking about noisy log files, what are your thoughts about log2ram ? Keep up the good work :) EDIT: spelling
Definitely worthwhile if you want to set it up that way. I typically just silence log files for anything besides errors if possible, and for a couple Pis, I have them log to a separate log aggregator.
Too bad we can’t buy the board any time soon. I can’t even get a Pi4 board without a crazy mark up.
Some numbers are wrong. If the NVMe requires 6.04s, eMMC 7.48s and microSD 9.48s, then the NVMe is 36.28% (not 44%) faster than the microSD and 19.25% (not 21%) faster than eMMC.
What formula are you using? |𝑉1−𝑉2|[(𝑉1+𝑉2)2]×100= x - x = 44% / 21% in this case, comparing those numbers...
@@JeffGeerling You are using the formula for "Percentage Difference" and that is the mistake. If you have a starting and ending value or an "initial number" and a "final number" then you have to use this formula for "Percentage Change": |(V2-V1)|/V1*100
Example: NVMe requires 6.04s and microSD requires 9.48s. Then V1=9.48 (starting value) and V2=6.04 (ending value) and therefore|(6.04-9.48)|/9.48*100%=36.28%.
Otherwise a great video!
@@christophborowski725 Gah... you are correct. Sorry about that, will try to make sure I'm using the right numbers in follow-up videos.
1:30 God RTC clock
Why do I feel a lot less stupid after watching your videos? Maybe because you never talk down to anyone, especially noobs like me. I may not understand certain specific specs but I do feel I get a better grasp on general concepts to the point that I know how to ask better questions. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Hi Jeff
Love your channel. Very well made. Thanks!
I have a question: do you know if it is possible to boot from an NVME SSD that is behind a PCI switch? I would like to have an SSD and a modem connected at the same time over PCI.
So where can i get any of those amazing blades or mirkoPC or any other of the cm4 boards ? I cannot seem to find any for sale
Awesom Jeff, thanks a ton :-)
Could you do a video of showing how to boot of from an NVMe SSD on an existing raspberry os lite which has already software running? All videos so far I found on youtube showing new fresh installed setups.
These instructions are now out of date. The nvme subfolder of the usbboot project was recently eliminated and I use git to regress to an Aug 2 2021 commit to find the subfolder. After that it worked fine. There might be another way to get the bleeding edge bootloader but I tried the usbboot approach with the most recent commit, the Pi imager approach, and the raspi-config approach and all those approaches loaded a bootloader dated Feb 6 2021. Overall the instructions were succinct but complete except for this new development. By the way, the official Pi documentation was incomplete. I quess they are in the middle of moving this capability out of beta and so user beware.
My above comment suggest success. However, I was not able to get this to work despite trying several different boot loaders. I am waiting for this capability to be formally released. Until then I am content to just booting from SD but mounting the root file system from NVMe drive.
@@williamsnelling5733 thanks for the tip. I just got it to work by doing a git history and looking just before the release. No need to update the firmware as they dont support it yet.. Works awesome now!
FYI, your link to "USB 3.0 to NVMe adapter with UASP" says this product is not available.
Thought you should know that in case you get any commission.
there are sbc with rk3399 that has a built in m.2 or mini pcie for ssd
Anyone used Raspberry Pi OS Lite version without graphical interface? What is the correct way to copy files and partitions (or clone) from eMMC to nvme without SD Card Copier? Reason is i want to use lite version as it's a server and don't want to bloat os with extra apps and programs.
well, I just bought one of those boards you wished for (well, the m.2 being on the underside) but I'm not exactly sure about how many lanes but it claimed it would have much faster speed than 400mb/s but I could be wrong about that... we'll just have to see when it comes in the mail over the next few weeks... i got the parts from 2 different places
8:52 That’s a lot of p’s