Another telltale sign of bad writing is if people have divided opinions that have no in-betweens that provoke random Internet wars. In regards to what you said, though, there's a thing called "show, don't tell" and if what you're showing is so bad that you have to directly tell people, then that's bad writing. There's also "actions speak louder than words", which can be yet another indicator of bad writing if what you're showing contradicts what you're telling the audience, or if blatant hypocrisy can be seen in either the writing or the words of the creators.
The idea of Adrian telling Chloe of all people that he's Chat Noir is the biggest, riskiest and most galaxy brained idea I have ever heard. That is brilliant.
@@borisspivak6998 Because of it's high risk reward!!! Imagine it, if done well, this Chloe's last chance to being a better person and a better friend. If Chloe fails and acts as she has done in the past, Adrian is doomed, he loses his Miraculous, his father probably beats him up and steals Plagg, and the show will have a bad end. BUT... If Chloe becomes someone better, becomes the Chloe Adrian sees her as... she will become the greatest confidant the world has ever seen. Adrian needs to sneak out of a situation, Chloe will be THE BEST distraction the world has ever seen. If Adrian needs her, she's coming to his house NOW and talking to him. If he needs help, she will move all of Paris around to make it happen. And while she is helping Adrian... she has to learn what it means to help others. All of season 2 and even moments in season three, showed Chloe growing into a role of a hero (or at least antihero) and learning what it meant to help people. If she hit rock bottom and was about to lose it all...and this was her last chance to be better and she actually took it, imagine the change that she would go through. Imagine how she could help Adrian...imagine her and him reminiscing over okd times, flashbacks to their childhood and realizing...they havn't been this close in years. Chloe realizing that she does not just want to be a hero to be acknowledged by her mom...but because she wants to help people. The change that could happen for her and Adrian is so amazing to think about, that it's hard to even think about. In this dire state, this will either work, or it will lead to their doom. There is no half way, there isn't a third option, it's do or die.
@@ChasehaWing First, you spelled Adrien's name incorrectly, and second, Chloe cannot be a better person now because of the path the writers have chosen to take. You can theorize all you want but at the end of the day, the writers aren't going to do anything with her and as of right now, she cannot be redeemed. I would be really glad if she got rewritten out of the show since she serves no purpose.
@@borisspivak6998 They had their chance to write her out at season 3. Literally. She said she was going to America with her mom and if they had gone that path, everyone would be disappointed (forever) but it would have been LEAGUES better than what they are currently going with. If she serves no point, and if she's not getting a redemption OR a villian arc, then she is literally taking up space that could have gone to the other 18 characters in the show. Or at least could have gone to the best villian in the show: Lila. (Not joking. She is the absolute BEST villian). Also this is not about what they'll do in canon, it's about what could have been done. What the potential could have been had they gone this route. It's a ballsy move. More so then anything in the show has done up till this point (season 4.) And that's why I love the idea.
If zoe turns out to be secretly evil that would be great it would make sense why her whole personality is just nice because she’s a “great” actor and it would make her design as vesparia make sense and if chloe ever gets redeemed (which is highly unlikely)I would like her to keep her sassy personality as it would bring variety to the show
1000% agreed. I also agree about Chloe. If she becomes good, I want her to stay spicy to break up the monotony of all of the sugary sweet characters. X3
It would also be an interesting storyline. Zoe has Marinette's unrequited trust but betrays her while Chloe, who Marinette never trusted, was trying to be better without the support.
At this point fanfiction >>>> actual show when it's Miraculous. All I want to see is Chloe admitting to her mistakes, apologizing to everyone and slowly redeeming herself and becoming a greater person. And with that development she's more worthy of the Bee Miraculous because she's more mature and she's *_REDEEMED_*
YUP. The fanfiction provides the satisfaction and development that the show either doesn't deliver or takes too long to deliver on. Chloe's character is such a missed opportunity. I hope they don't waste it >.
If they wanted a pure evil villain where they want to teach some people can’t change. WE HAVE LILA, USE HER! We haven’t seen her all season 4. I know she’s gonna be in the finale based on the spoiler, but JUST the finale? Chloe can be the redeemable villain where there’s a lesson that people can change and Lila can be the pure evil villain where even if you tried hard to make them good, they’ll never change.
I agree! Having both villains come out with different outcome based off of life choices would have been great! And if they intended to never reform Chloe, they should have never made her sympathetic or show that she's self aware and have a good side. =/
@@TheArtisticAloubell That’s why I like stories where they pit a reformed villain against the hate sink villain to make it all the more satisfying for the before the villain to complete his or her arc
Right? The show has too many characters but I feel that forcing Chloe to be a pure Villain is a bit crowded tbh. It deluded the villains's screentime for Chloe. I think overall, if Thomas hated Chloe so much, he should have just written her out of the show.. like move away permanently.
I don't think that Thomas is joking. I genuinely believe that he's being serious about Chloé being irredeemable. In one of his tweets, he compared Chloé fans (including myself) and Chloé to abusers.
I like to remain optimistic X'D The show will be around for a few more seasons, there's a chance he'll either change his mind, reveal he was joking, or someone else on the team will take over and realize Chloe's arc needs a satisfying conclusion. If he said that, though, then that wasn't cool =( Even if he sincerely doesn't like Chloe, he should be a bit more civil than that.
4:19 Oh it's _way_ worse. Mari was still in her super possessive phase with Adrien and got distracted seeing Kagami and Adrien hanging out. She forgot to detransform and picked the dragon miraculous instead of the bee miraculous. Even when asked by Master Fu if she's sure, Ladybug insisted that the dragon miraculous was the correct one. Marinette caused the Miracle Queen incident AND got Master Fu figured out and cornered and the show doesn't call her out for it.
OHHHH. Oh that hurts. Poor Chloe got snuffed because Marinette had terrible priorities D'X I mean, yeah, Chloe could have handled it better, for sure, but Mari definitely had a part to plan in this. Thank you for the clarification!
But the Show did call her out on it… or Rather Marinette was the one who called herself out. She had the mental breakdown about it right before the second half of the season 3 finale. She knew that it was her fault that all of that happened
@@RayCeaAlm And then she's completely fine for the next four episodes (and even then, the breakdown she has at the end of E3 doesn't pertain to the incident) _and_ she gets made the guardian. Not to mention, iirc, S4 has yet to bring up the fact that Mari is largely at fault for the Miracle Queen incident but it's brought up and drilled in the Chloe messed up in the finale.
I have to say, Thomas is really wrong in how people like Chloe doesn't change Why do I say he's wrong? I'll go into a personal story of mine and my boyfriend My boyfriend has DID, I've always know about it since we met (that was 10 years ago), my boyfriend's alter wasn't very kind, he was hostile to my boyfriend and to me BUT that is because he, like my bf, was alone and afraid and he felt like his life was being stolen so he lashed towards us, very very hard We had lots of fights and clashes but the more we talked (more like, angry and sarcastic conversations) the more we opened to each other and the more he began to change We later learned he was very envious of our relationship, because no matter how many times he tried to separate us he couldn't do it, he just wanted to have his own life, to have someone who loved him, to feel real love After a lot (I mean A LOOT) of talking between the three of us we began to form some agreements and limits, my Bf's alter is now my Bf too since we fell for each other after a while, of course that doesn't mean he didn't have some consequences for all of his actions and he's still learning but really if we had to compare the way he was before vs the way he is now he did a complete 180 and he wants to change even more And I feel that Chloe needs more opportunities, she needs more support, more love, someone to talk to for real, like really deep conversations, Chloe deserves SOOOO much more!
Thank you for sharing your experience =) And thank you for showing an example of someone changing for the better. Such things definitely happen in real life and I think it would be an excellent lesson for children to show that some people, with hard work and people giving them a chance, CAN change. Chloe could be a shining example of that. I sincerely hope that the writers change their mind about her and that Astruc stops being pessimistic. We'll see what happens with Chloe! I hope she gets more support ^_^ Thank you for your thoughtful comment~!
If I can ask... what type of alter was he? Was he a persecutor? Did his role in the system also change along with his attitude towards you and your bf?
@@lpsfankanr1 I think he hasn't changed a lot in the system, he's I think a persecutor still He's not aggressive of course but he still gets defensive easily and he kinda closes himself the moment he misunderstands something (Which is very frequent) He's working on it tho, but sometimes it feels like walking on egg shells
I gotta disagree with you a bit about the part you said about Astruc being free to do what he wants with his characters. Of course he shouldn't be attacked in a any way and this is his show, but when you've made a show this popular that are marketed towards children, you have to be careful about what you're saying since children are impressionable. Astruc repeatedly states that Chloe will never deserve redemption and will always be bad, to a child, that can make them believe that people who wrong them don't deserve second chances since they can never change. We also can't forget Chloe is a teen, meaning she still has tons of space to mature, but Astruc doesn't seem to care about that, and don't get me started on Marinette's stalker behavior. It's no real criticism against you, but Astruc does have a responsibility now he's made this show.
Hi hi! Thank you so much for taking the time to watch my video and comment! I really appreciate it! ❤ Now regarding your comment: you're right. Astruc should be held responsible for both hos tweets and the implications within the show. Impressionable teens and kids probably follow him and definitely watch his product, so he shouldn't say hurtful things so casually. I guess what I meant by him having the freedom to do what he wants with his characters, I just meant that physically, and technically, he is allowed to do whatever he wants cuz he is in charge. But yes, he 1000% shouldn't use that power to promote that bad message. Thanks again for commenting! 💐❤
@@TheArtisticAloubell He also shouldn't have made it seem like Mari's creepy stalking was completely okay, and the fact that she could do anything without any real consequences. i think the show has great potential but in my opinion, there are a lot of things that need to be fixed. i also want to see more of Kagami.
Not only does Zoe's costume look more like a wasp than a bee, her super hero name Vesperia is probably derived from the latin name for the wasp family which is Vespidae.
Yes I love the rewrite ! I especially enjoy the part of Chat revealing his identity to Chloe and it being compared to Alya and Marinette. Adrien has been very not caring about his identity this season, so maybe he’ll reveal his identity to someone other than LB. I honestly don’t want LB to be the first reveal in his side. Chloe is a great character and can be redeemed like she was until season 3. If they want someone who isn’t redeemable, Lila makes more sense ….
@@TheArtisticAloubell So sorry for the late response (didnt get this notification) but I returned to this video to rewatch this theory and hear the rewrite again -which i still absolutely adore! Yes i agree with you that having Lila and Chloe both be irredeemable and used for helping Hawkmoth is ridiculous - especially since Felix seems to be a great choice to fill the role instead of Chloe. Felix could be what Adrien could've been when losing a family member just like you said with Chloe and Lila. Having different perspective and outcomes would fit this season. They already kind of did it with the episode Truth and Lie. Also YES!!! Adrien needs more development and focus like come on !
It's hard to explain, but to me, Zoe FEELS like a fanfiction OC. Sole Crusher and Queen Banana both feel like fanfiction episodes. It feels like a fan that loves Marinette and hates Chloé made their own character (kind of like a self-insertion thing) and made her best friends with Marinette and the new holder of the Bee, without a second thought about how it affects the plot of the show, or other characters, or how the audience will take it. That's how it feels and that's basically how it is. Thomas basically just threw away Chloe's progress because he didn't like her and made his own superhero, his own character, his own side-story, completely wasting the writer's AND the audience's time. The tricky thing about Chloé and Thomas is that Thomas "based her" off his childhood bully. Except he hasn't based her off them at all. She IS that childhood bully, as far as Thomas is concerned, hence why he won't give her a second chance and acts like she's the spawn of satan, and has this unexplainable hatred for her that nobody else understands. He gets annoyed at Chloé stans that adore her and defend her, because in his eyes, those people are adoring and defending his childhood bully and justifying everything they did to him. And while I can completely understand and sympathise with him over whatever happened to him in his youth, he also kind of needs to wake up and realise that his bully was real. Chloé is not. He needs to realise he's a 47-year-old man arguing with a bunch of young teenagers through a screen, about a fake world with fake people and fake powers. He's bitter about his childhood bully and doesn't want them to succeed, but the thing is, he is, again, FOURTY SEVEN YEARS OLD. I can't picture his childhood bully is still going around giving people wedgies and stealing people's lunch money. Wjoever hurt him has moved on and Thomas needs to as well. If he doesn't, he's going to end up destroying the show for the sake of his own ego.
Zoe feels SUPER out of place, for sure. And it's super sad he's projecting his disdain towards his childhood bully onto Chloe. The thing is, I know he never intended for Chloe to get a character arc. I heard Astruc was away for season 2 and the remaining writers at ZAG decided to give her a redemption arc, but when Astruc got back, he disapproved of this change and then undid it. Idk how true this is, but that's what I heard.
@@TheArtisticAloubell Honestly that makes so much more sense if he was away for it, I'd always wondered why he'd okay'd it if he was only going to throw a fit about it in the next season.
you want character destruction for the benefit of Thomas astruc's ego? watch season 5 episode 20 marinette literally vomits thomas lyrics on twitter in this episode my GOD it was awkward! and from the moment the protagonist herself has given up, it's game over for Chloé!
@@TheArtisticAloubelland this is why i hate him if i have Charthers who i base off of My Bullies i will give them a Chance to be better people only if they get that chance or not at all
Considering how the show went from a duo to having multiple heroes, Chloe worked in expanding, dare I say diversifying, the pov from our heroes and what makes them a hero and how the journey to becoming one is not set on a straight path. Mari of course has hers but what makes both Adrian and Chloe much more interesting to me is that despite being rich kids, they're both miserable and radiate that misery in different ways. Mari honestly has the best family life between the both but getting back to my point, Adrian's life as Chat Noir gives him freedom, Chloe's stint as Queen Bee gave her purpose but also a look into the difference of being a hero for good vs attention and we see she loved it when she got to be a true hero. She fits the role of the rival finding out she has more in common with the main and it was great. It was such a fun idea to have a hero that wasn't a direct friend to Mari that would result in both learning to respect each other but..... That's not going to happen. Seriously, Adrian and Chloe are the strongest written characters in the show due to their faults but want to overcome them, and in Chloe's case admittance of them. But as a lot of folks have mentioned, Thomas has problems with both despite ignoring how stronger the stories were getting when there was better character interaction that wasn't just about Mari crushing on Adrian. Hell, Hawkmoth was showing REGRET and it looked like he was breaking from being the mastermind to becoming a puppet to someone else in a possible future but FORGET DAT! It's why I dislike Zoe; she isn't needed and just comes off as another one-note goodie kid that gets powers because she is angelic sweet put-upon. The episode where they have Chloe's dad try to talk to her and the show tried to play it off as tragic made me say f-that to the show because where the heck was this side of him with Chloe?! Everything about her inclusion just buries one of the best parts of the series to the show screaming at us we have to like her because the characters all of a sudden are smitten by her. This is how you don't do a character arc.
I agree with everything you said X3 Regarding Adrien, even if the writers gave him equal episodes to Marinette so that they could both share their perspective and spotlight, then that would be better than focusing on Marinette all the time. The title has both of their names in it, but Marinette gets most of the attention and respect in-universe. And as for Zoe, I REALLY hope there ends up being a twist about her and that she is secretly a nasty person. Adding another super duper nice person to the cast is just redundant >.< Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment and for watching!
@@TheArtisticAloubell I kinda doubt it since Thomas expressed such dislike towards Chloe since the get go and if there is a twist, it would mean that the entire cast was forced to act so incredibly out of character JUST for a twist. I mean, I'm not trying to be a downer but it's not something I would put too much hope behind but it would be nice to see some character development because another season of s1 attitude Chloe comes off as desperate.
@@SuperCosmicMutantSquid Yeah, I see what you mean. I know the likeliness of Chloe finishing her redemption arc is low, but I'll still hope for it. It's like what they say: expect for the worse, but hope for the best!
She's certainly more interesting than Marinette lol ...actually, the more I think about it, you're right XD ALSO! I'm new to the MLB analysis community and I see you're one of the top ones! Thanks for stopping by my neck of the woods X3 I appreciate it! ^0^
You know what, the fact that Chloe probably associated ladybugs neglect as similar to her mother’s neglect would have been an awesome point to have in the show, also making her regression arc more believable
After what happened to chloe I don't think the writers can write complex interesting characters. I'm not here to hate but Chloe was probably the best developed character in the show from being a bully to slowly appreciating people. For them to do this to her shows us that they do not want to write well written characters but give us 2 dimensional clones (everyone acts the same, when people become heroes we are never shown how it actually affects them later on and they act as if it never happened) Zoe was made just to replace Chloe which is sad. I do think her character could have been used to finally redeem chloe without taking her superhero spot. Also I wished they let Adrian redeem chloe instead of Ladybug. Let me explain.. Adrian is chloes childhood and first friend yet as chat noir they never seem to let him get involved with her they always focus on ladybug. When in school he was more involved in choles redemption but that was at a minimum. I wish they let him redeem her instead of having ladybug always involved since Adrian needs more development and a proper storyline instead of being marionettes love interest. I would have loved to see a story of true friendship between those two as the constant love triangle is at this point boring and really forced. If they wanted someone unredeemeable they should have used hawk-moth as he is an adult and has every chance to stop but doesn't, he is willing to use babies to do his evil work so why not write him to be unredeemeable?! Update on my thoughts 26 August, Ok I watched some more of miraculous ladybug S4 and I have to say that they do have some interesting storylines and great episodes like wishmaker( Luka is best character 😉) But I don't understand how they have slightly progressed the plot but have completely destroyed all of Chloe's character she is truly back to being in s1. I understand Chloe not liking Ladybug but they destroyed her relationships she shad with other characters that were actually becoming positive. In s1 Chloe treated Sabrina like a slave but as the show went on we learned that Sabrina kinda liked their friendship dynamic and Chloe actually did care for her. In one episode I'm either s2 or S3 she literally defended Sabrina from being akumatised, like that was a big thing, this selfish girl in s1 now caring enough to defend someone and that also indicated that Chloe good intentions and her heart was some way becoming pure. Now she lost all that. She now treats Sabrina like a slave in s1 and in one episode basically almost killed her sister in a horrible selfish way, the optigami episode. They can add character regression in character arcs but I wish they would make her character regression seem a bit more realistic for who she was in s2 and S3, like these scenes don't feel right. I've watched other animes that did this and they always felt right and the characters didn't regress to far that made no sense. The Shanghai special showed us that they can write morality grey characters who are complex and the way they act was a result of their upbringing. I'm hoping that this is a bait and switch and they are trying to surprise with something amazing.
Yes, I completely agree. Adrien's story could easily tie into Chloe's redemption. Give them both more development and screen time. That would be the best option (and add Zoe in there as well). Thank you so much for watching and for your thoughtful comment! ^_^
I actually like what they did..chloe only wanted to be a hero so she could be liked by everyone...by ladybug....and when lady started being shitty to her...it was just a matter of time before she sided with hawk moth...... and now is the perfect time to give her a redemption arch....sadly they dont want to
@@creativeink4407 You know what? I agree with that. It's fine that she took a few steps backwards as long as she can progress forward again and get past her demons. Unfortunately, idk if they'll do that, but I'm still hopeful!
@@creativeink4407 I agree, but that only happened because they made it happen. It was so random, like many other things in the show, it felt like the other episodes where wasted as we didn't advance the story much. :(
I'm glad you mentioned the fact that Chloé being portrayed as irredeemable is harmful to kids that have been bullied or the sort (as a fellow Christian), but I also think it's harmful to people that can identify with Chloé to some degree. Some people are egotistical, some people are diva-like, some people have had a disillusionment with their former idol, and some people feel neglected or put down by their parents repeatedly, and no doubt people like that watch Miraculous. To put Chloé in such a negative light in spite of all of that and saying she can't be changed is essentially saying to everyone that can identify with her " lol u suck ", and that's frankly such an irresponsible thing to do. Her having a redemption arc and becoming a protagonist would teach those viewers to not let their negativity corrode them and encourage them to change for the better, not just for everyone around you, but for you; negativity is a destructive force, after all, not just to the individual, but to everyone, in general. I believe that anyone, no matter their age or what they've done, doesn't exactly deserve hate or be seen as completely irredeemable, since anyone and everyone has the potential to become a better person and correct their wrongdoings. People CAN change, and to imply otherwise can really damage someone's outlook on life, but when you encourage change, when you offer them the warmth and support on their journey to become a better person, that's something truly amazing and powerful, and that's a message that's SORELY needed at this day and age which Miraculous could have given a generation that's so influenced by hate and misery.
lol When I say that Instagram has a LOT of spoilers, I mean it XD Granted, the algorithm just thinks I'm a fan now and shows me MLB stuff daily. XD Also, thank you! I'm glad you liked it! ^0^
@@TheArtisticAloubell Yeah. It's great thst you know stuff because of spoilers, but you should still watch some of the show to understand things better and avoid some mistakes. You said in this video that you didn't know why Ladybug initially stopped coming to Chloe to help her with akuma battles. The reason she did that is because she was afraid of Hawkmoth harming Chloe and her family since Chloe revealed her identity at the beginning of Queen Wasp. Rather than telling Chloe immediately that this was the reason she was not using her for battles, Marinette chose to avoid the conversation instead by ignoring Chloe's offers. Just watch season 2 at least id you are going to do any future episodes, so you get some context on some things. This makes you a better authority on the subject if you actually watch the series even if there is spoilers available on Instagram. They don't always give context on everything you need to know that makes something make sense. You have to see the episodes to get the full scope.
@@cartooncottage2024 Thank you for filling in my missing gap of knowledge! Yay! That's a fair comment. I know the smart thing would be to actually watch the show, but I really can't bring myself to. I'm a highly visual person and the show's art style really bothers me. Plus I don't really want to deal with the frustrations the show has such as the reveal taking forever, the love square existing, among other things. You're totally right though that the best thing to do would be to watch at least some of the show for context. I'm going to generally limit the amount of Miraculous videos I post due to my lack of knowledge. I do have a couple more ideas for videos, but it'll be general stuff that I don't thin requires too much knowledge of the show such as comments on the superhero costumes, general comments about relationships, and a small note I have about how Adrien and Marinette became superheroes. So...3 more videos. Hopefully the topics will be so general that my ignorance isn't apparent, but...I hope you understand ^^" I know it's stubborn of me to not want to watch the show, but I really don't want to feel like I'm forced to watch something I don't want to watch. Hopefully you understand ^^ And if that means you don't want to watch my videos, I'll completely understand that too with no hard feelings. ^_^ I'm sorry if I disappointed you at all... I appreciate you watching and for your thoughtful comment
I really believe Chloe's character development was an accident. Which would explain Astruc's shock when people began to like Chloe, it wasn't planned. There is no plan for character development beyond shallow 1 episode liners. That's why particularly season 1 & 2 Chloe was the only one to change in the overall plot causing people to like her more cause she was the only thing changing. By season 2 the show got so formulaic and still is. The only thing i can recall that is different from season one and still impacts the show in a meaningfully is that now Zoe exists.
That makes sense to a certain degree. But if Astruc is so involved with the show and its writing, you'd think he'd be aware of what happens when you make someone sympathetic and actively have them try to be better. Idk how it was such a surprise that people would be on board for development. It's kind of weird...unless he isn't as involved in the story as we thought he was? Idk...I still hope they plan on doing something with Chloe (something good, I mean).
@@TheArtisticAloubell apparently he wasn't involved for season 2 for some reason. Some other guy was in charge. He decided to give chole a redemption arch to show kids that people change. But Thomas found out and was obviously unhappy. I think that guy got fired because I never saw his name in the credit in season 3.
@@angelwatt1582 OHHHH Okay. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Still the smarter thing to do would have been to just go with where the story was going, but c'est la vie, I guess. Still hoping he changes his mind. X(
@@angelwatt1582 oh no. I feel so sorry for that guy. Thomas really is immature. Chloe is a 14 Year old fictional character, astruc.😒 You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the real reason why Thomas was so in on making Chloe as awful as possible, was to make everyone like Marinette again.
I think Rafiki from Lion King (original) said it best, "It doesn't matter, it's in the past. You can either run from it or learn from it." Chloe obviously can be redeemed, she has the perfect set-up. Astruc acts as people change overnight and really focuses on Chloe's mistakes, comparing her to the worst types of people in real life (which is ridiculous). Marinette herself isn't a perfect saint despite what the show tells us. I'm still not a fan of Zoe and still see her as just a nicer, perfect little angel clone of Chloe. If she was just Chloe's distant sister who has flaws and tried to help Chloe without becoming the new Bee Miraculous holder, I'd be fine with that (and I like the idea of her being a terrible person in secret, putting on a much subtle nice personality compared to the blatantly obvious Lila and even being part of the reason why Chloe Acts the way she does). Zoe could be the favourite of the family, often belittling Chloe and being reminded of her sister's success.
Lion King (1994) is my favorite movie and Rafiki's quote is my favorite X333 It's honestly baffling what little faith he has in his own character. It should be a good thing that someone develops like that, but I guess it might be disrupting his vision of the show??? Idk. It's hard to know what he's thinking. And yeah, I'd be so much finer with Zoe if her flaws were apparent and if she held literally any other Miraculous AND if she participates in Chloe's redemption. Otherwise...I don't like her purpose (unless she's a villain, in which case, yes please lol)
I don't like how Chloe's arc was just broken. You can see that she was changing. I kinda see Zoe as a second chance for Chloe's redemption. She can give her the love her Mother won't give her but will be firm, unlike her Dad. I hope something will be done with this. Also with the suits, I remember a discussion how: Chloe's suit is elegant looking and nice but has a cold yellow representing herself Zoe is a wasp, looking more mean but has a warm yellow representing her kindness Your redemption fanfiction was good, would be amazing if that happened
Zoe won't help Chloe. Even if that could be a good idea first if Chloe becomes a good person again is ironic. Second, knowing how are the writters Zoe will be only her replacement. Don't wait something good of miraculous
@@TheArtisticAloubell I don't think so. There's not a development in Zoe as a character and being Vesperia is nah. Astruc hates Chloe and that's all, we can't do nothing. Zoe is going to be a replacement only
She chose Kagami instead of Chloe because the former was having a date with Adrien, which was basically a poly date before Mari left them alone and didn't want her to have her crush. Marinette also screwed over her master in the process. And then came Zoe. She came out of nowhere despite being the half-sister of a main character solved her character flaw in her first episode, got a miraculous in her second episode and everyone is praising how much better she is as compared to Chloe. It doesn't help that Thomas Astruc had a self insert in the episode, they guy who probably came up with Zoe as a FUCK YOU to Chloe fans he had a twitter fight with. Something else that bothers me: Season 2 gave Chloe more dept and also introduest Lila a way more competent antagonist for Marinette and Ladybug, the perfect moment to start a redemption arc for Chloe to turn her into a lovable alpha bitch; someone who is not a beacon of niceness but still a (mostly) good person.
When I first started Miraculous I used to hate Chloe a lot (it was silly but I was younger ha ha) but I realized after a while that the problem with her isn't her personality or backstory, it's the fact that she wasn't a character - she was an obstacle. She was someone to be a brat and get another person angry, someone to make things more difficult than they should be. Maybe that's why the creator sees her as truly bad? Cus he can't imagine her in another role? That's how I see it at least and it's a shame, she could have been an amazing character. Also I'll admit your re-write made me cry a little, it was really good! Edit : I'm not saying I don't like Chloe, actually I do,i really enjoyed her arc as she tried to be a better queen bee. This is just what i think - the mentality i mentioned might be why things ended up as they did.
Oh I totally get you. Yeah, I can see what you mean about her just being an obstacle. I think if the writers didn't intend for her to be an actual character, they shouldn't have made her sympathetic and give her a backstory as well as they shouldn't have written her trying to be better. If they intended for her to just be a bully trope, then they failed a bit...which is a shame. I'm still hoping this is one huge troll and they do plan on redeeming her. I'm glad you liked the re-write
This comment made me say "ooohhhh!" OUT LOUD, because I don't think you could be anymore correct. you freaking hit the nail on the head. That is so true about her character.
Your version of Chloe's redemption is somewhat similar to mine. The difference is that I had the additional idea that Chloe sees her butler getting along better with Zoe (and the rest of the gang) and so Chloe, heartbroken, runs away from home (her butler is the other disguised dad who took more care of her than the real one). BTW your artstyle is beautiful
That is quite similar! That would be a major loss for Chloe if that happened, so I think if the writers ever decide to give her self awareness back, her running away could be a canon possibility. Also, thank you ❤❤❤
I would change many things about Zoe. Here's my three-part-plan. Step 1: BUILD UP Zoe came out of nowhere and it shows SO BAD. It's so in our faces that she is literally there to replace Chloe, which is impossible because for better or for worse, Chloe is irreplaceable. But... that could have been avoided if we added mentions of her all the way back to season 2. Where it should have been revealed that Audrey abandoned Chloe, and further more it should have been that the affair she had, ended in divorce with Chloe's father and she left her for her new/ improved family in America. This keeps the relationship with her mom the same (or maybe hurting a little more!), And also creates a rivalry between the daughters. Or at least, some serious animosity towards Zoe on Chloe's behalf. This is because she sees her as stealing her mum from her, being the reason Audrey left her and her dad behind, and being the "better daughter" that replaced her. So have small mentions of her here and there. When Audrey talks to Chloe, have her purposefully call her "Zoe" instead of all the other words she mistakes her name for. Or compare Chloe's accomplishments to nothing spectacular, especially in comparison to her sister. Keep it short and sweet but add that fuel to the fire. Step 2: Zoe's look Zoe needs to be more than a pitiful replacement for Chloe and the holder of the Bee Miraculous. This can be helped with changing her look to make her look a lot less like Chloe, and due to her last name we could guess her father might be asian. So give her darker blond hair like her mom's or a dark brown/black to make her stand out in the family. Maybe even make her look a bit like Marinette (not too much! Again we're going for her own original character look). This could explain her racism towards asian people in general, and though its NOT acceptable, it explains the root of her problem (that being her projecting asian stereotypes due to a result of animosity towards her half sister and mom's affair partner/ second husband.). As it stands, the pink hair is ...barely acceptable and somehow it just makes her more bland. But yeah just don't make her look like a faded version of Chloe. Step 3: Character. Zoe is a nice girl....and that's it. If anything, she's bland and boring. Her backstory makes me suspicious though because putting ROACHES in her locker... I've been bullied a long time and no one will put that kind of effort in to hurting you unless you did something MAJORLY wrong, and her "playing a part and no one could believe who I was" story does not add up to the "punishment" she got. Honestly, I'm thinking she might be a villian too and be a much more terrifying version of Lyla. Someone with a nice mask but has something really sinister underneath... I just don't trust the writers to be able to pull that off. But yeah Zoe needs more characteristics. Nice, bland, and a follower are not enough. Give her time to work on the flaws presented in her introduction, and have her take her time befriending the class throughout the season. Let her make mistakes and slowly integrate her into the group. She's had too much success/progress for how little time she's gotten. But yeah those are my updated thoughts. This needed a little editing and I wanted to add a little more (because this comment was not long enough, am I right XD;).
Your ideas are SUPER good regarding Zoe. She had no build up whatsoever (almost like she wasn't thought about/created until now 👀) She needs more development to make her feel like she deserves to be here cuz right now, her only purpose is to spite Chloe and that's annoying. The show better do SOMETHING with her or she will be totally unjustified.
I personally prefer Zoe to be a very nice girl, far more different from her step-family. But like you said, she needs more characterization and flaws to make her a relatable character. She’s nice and kind towards many, but she has major flaws to overcome. For my idea of her flaw, it would be inferiority complex due to being a result of a cheating affair, having low esteem issues with herself, believing Chloé had a better live than she did. This would make her story far more complex and her relationship with Chloé more realistic.
there are bullies who beat someone up until they have several bones broken for NO REASON. agree with the rest of what you said but just because your experience with bullying wasn't as extreme doesn't mean other innocent victims' experiences aren't.
Definitely agree that Chloe should be able to change and grow. She is just a teen, and teens make mistakes. And having an abusive mom shaped her negatively. If the show doesn’t decide to redeem her and Thomas just claims she’s just a bad person, it just sends the wrong message that because she wasn’t raised in a positive way by her mom, she can’t become a better person despite the abuse or is just inherently bad. Doesn’t send a good message for other kids in similar family situations to Chloe. Chloe could even be a parallel to Lila, seeing that Lila’s mom is a bit neglectful. Lila wants to have a closer relationship to her mom, but her mom keeps making empty promises that she breaks, as shown in one of the episodes. Lila seemed to learn to lie from these experiences and can’t seem to be honest and up front about her true self and insecurities leading to maybe a sense of bitterness. We could see Chloe grow and learn to improve as Lila’s arc begins, and as Lila spirals out of control, Chloe reaches out to her and tries to help her since Chloe knows what it’s like to not have a good mother. The show could explore how Chloe helps Lila improve on screen or end off the show’s finale with Lila making up to everyone and beginning to learn with Chloe supporting her. If Thomas believes Hawk Moth can be redeemed, then it makes sense that a teen like Chloe still has a chance to grow and improve and isn’t just a static character. Side note that’s unrelated to the video, the Instagram account Chlogami has a controversy related to one of their comics where Chloe does some racist stuff like assuming Lila’s ethnicity based on the color of her skin and wearing a mask and spraying Marinette with disinfectant (I think as a C0VID joke???). Chlogami has apologized at least, and I don’t want to stir up controversy or have anyone go after this creator. This is just a quick note.
@@TheArtisticAloubell Thanks! And yeah, I found it interesting how both characters have issues with their mom and how they could work together to improve on themselves
i'm sorry but just because someone got emotionally neglected their whole life does not excuse or dismiss their present actions in any way. chloe was racist to marinette's culture multiple times and didn't even get called out for it. on the other hand, when marinette makes mistakes the show DOES call her out and she learns from them. my biggest problem with chloe is that whenever she does something problematic and hurtful, the show doesn't make her face any consequences or take responsibility to fix things she had done. this shows to kids that whatever she does is considered "normal" or "okay" when it's far from that. i just wanted to get that out of the way so you can understand where i'm coming from.
@@borisspivak6998 Uh, yeah. I do agree. I never meant that her actions are excusable in any way. Abuse never excuses bad behavior. The show definitely needs to hold Chloe accountable as well and the racism Chloe has really needs to be addressed for sure. The show does call Marinette out sometimes, but also needs to call her out on her stalkerish behavior too and completely misses the mark on that too. In general, the show doesn’t hold their characters responsible for their actions very well and if Chloe is to be redeemed, she needs to own up to those mistakes. There is potential for her to grow and learn and any person who was abused and did bad things in real life can become good people while owning up to their bad behavior as well. I just want the show to be nuanced enough to have these characters own up to their horrible behavior and grow to be better people.
@@justradiclesandco Marinette, in season 4, did admit her behavior in season 3 and that's why the writers toned down her crush to a minimum where they don't show her obsessing over him and that is character development. I, however, have no hope for Chloe in the slightest and she's even worse now. They already made her the main villain in the season 3 finale, so it's better if they just rewrote her out of the show because she serves no specific role.
4:23 - She summoned Kagami instead of Chloé because she happened to see the former and Adrien REAAAALLY close to each other. I believe she was confessing to him, and/or they were about to kiss, so she swept in and took Kagami away in order to give her her miraculous and go fight the Monster Of The Week. It was clearly adone out of jealousy and to keep her away from Adrien, although that's likely NOT Astruc's official explanation.
Chloe is my favorite character in Miraculous, because I consider her the most "human" on the show, I really enjoyed her redemption in season 2. However I was disappointed when Astruc (according to some rumors he can't stand Chloe's character) or the writers wanted to cancel her redemption, to replace her with Zoe in the superhero role ... Zoe on the other hand, I consider her a character too boring and fake because she seems to have no defects and is loved by everyone, i hope Astruc and the writers decide to have her return to New York to her father.
If Chloe became a good guy, she could be a different kind of nice. Whereas the good characters now are all similarly nice, so their personalities blend together a bit, Chloe could be a bit spicy and sarcastic, but still ultimately a good person. I like the idea of the dynamic of the good guys shifting. It really is a shame if the writers (mostly Astruc) truly are done with her character =( I guess we'll see what happens! Thank you for watching and commenting! ^_^
how is she the most "human" when she's a horrible person and doesn't even take responsibility for her actions? she's a selfish snobby, wanna-be brat who had no redemption arc in season 2. now, i'm not saying she wasn't redeemable, i am simply saying that throughout season 2, chloe showed no true redeemping qualities other than a few episodes here and there but then she just goes back to her usual self even after season 2 which means it wasn't any sort of arc whatsoever.
@@borisspivak6998 Her mother is a horrible person, how can she not remember her daughter's name all the time? Of course Chloè has made many mistakes and is full of flaws but that's why I call her more human than other characters on the show, honestly I'm sorry that despite her potential she was ruined by the writers in season 4.
@@lorecava3883 I completely lost hope for her in season 3 so idek why chloe stans still think she's gonna get a redemption when she didn't even have one in season 2. The thing about a character, even a villain, is that they always have flaws and make mistakes. BUT, just because one person has those qualities doesn't mean you should think that everyone else doesn't have any. Marinette has made a bunch of wrong decisions and she DOES have flaws. (this is for the ppl that are calling her a mary-sue). But her actions, are nowhere near as bad as Chloe's and Chloe herself doesn't even get called out for it :/
@@borisspivak6998 we have to thank Astruc for having ruined Chloè! fortunately season 2 seems not to have been directed by him. As villain Chloè is not interesting, Lila is more suitable for that role.
I think it would be really cool to have zoe and chloe share the bee miraculous, like, if the bee is needed but zoe can't go, chloe goes instead and vice-versa
Y'know I was actually hoping Chloe gets her redemption arc like Any character..For example Zuko (ATLA) Fern (Adventure Time) and many more...Glad to share..also from Thomas Astruc he based most of the mlb characters on his life experiences..Like Chloe (his bully).
People out there like Chloe can and have the potential to change, I have personally seen it myself. Some of my cruelest bullies I grew up dealing with I ended up running into again and turned out to be way more nice and caring, as they would immediately apologize for what they did to me and told me that they either had family, financial, school, and mental stresses growing up, there were other issues , this was just a few to name. But what I’m trying to say is, situations that can cause stress and discomfort in a person can lead to repressed negative emotions and them being released onto other which can lead to bullying. For Chloe, it’s constantly being shunned by her mother, her mother not being there for her (her father has his issues too), trying to show her mother that she is exceptional like her, and wanting validation from her, not to mention her upbringing in immense wealth. Basically, her mother made her this way, and both parents barely spent time with her and probably never taught her any important life lessons, like the golden rule: TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED. But I will also understand that there are people out there who are too stubborn to want to try to change for the better as I did have one bully who is very unapologetic about how he treated me and others, but it still all leans back on the upbringing of the child, I just hope he’s doing better. Change is possible, but only if you really want it. Chloe and her family need serious family therapy/counseling.
Chloe being mean in a nice way would be so funny, like imagine "ugh dupen-cheng (idk how to spell maris last name srry) its utterly dangerous that your shoelaces r untied!"
I love how you did Chloe redemption arc, I'm a fan of the idea of Adrien revealing his secret identity to Chloe, I put that too in my miraculous rewrite, but it happens in a different situation in the 1 season of my fanfiction. I love Chloe, she's my favorite Miraculous character, just because of her potential, and I really don't like what they've done with Chloe on the show, and that's one of the reasons I stop watching the show. And because I like her so much, I made her arc much bigger and better than in the series, and in the end she becomes an anti-heroine.
I LOVE your confidence in making multiple videos about mlb without watching a SINGLE episode the AUDACITY and you get almost all the details right too bc the show goes at 2 episodes per episode and literally nothing happens
@@TheArtisticAloubell unfortunately it is 😭, but I'll keep treasuring the beautiful moments of season 2 where she was changing 😁, that's the real Chloe to me!
You can watch fan comic that made by Matt-cave on tumblr. Although the timeline was after queen banana but he was more focusing on chloe and zoe. In his fan comic, chloe was acting normally like ordinary teenagers unlike this shitshow made her like overreacting bully gag characters.
"I'm a Christian" *instant sub* I loveeeee how you wove your faith in to Chloé's story. She is a CHILD and the trauma of trying to earn her mother's love (like Adrien at times...)
*Reformed Villains have to be my favourite character roles* My top 3 favourite redeemed villains -Starlight Glimmer (MLP FIM:S5 Ep 26) -Sunset Shimmer (MLP:EG) -Melvin Sneedly (TETOCU:Halloween Special) BTW Melvin’s is pretty much the Male Version of Chloé: -Wealthy Parents -Arch-Enemies with Protagonists -Was given a potential redemption -Went from a Hated character to a Fan Favourite -Has a Backstory -Has a stuffed toy *Like how Chloé has Mr.Cuddly* -Has caused multiple villain triggering in the past -Takes Credit for stuff he didn’t do -Anti-Hero -Sympathetic throughout Season 3 and beyond Note:Your arc of Chloé is *much* better than the original Because they just wasted her from a dramatic finale,When they just use literally anyone else.
I absolutely loved your version of Chloe! After the end of season 3 and the episodes Solecrusher and Queen Banana I absolutely hated what the writers (and Tom) did to Chloe. I really found your story interesting how Chloes' redemption arc continues into season 4 instead of just rewriting Miracle Queen from there. It truly felt more enjoyable then the last couple of episodes that just made me feel bad for Chat Noir getting sidelined.
Aww thank you! I'm so grateful that you like my rewrite x3 Considering the show still has some seasons left, there's a chance Chloe could still get her redemption arc. So hopefully something good happens for her soon!
I get the feeling that Chloe's aborted arc was a result of infighting in the writer's room. Like some of the more competent writers in the show felt like this needed to be a thing, only for Astruc to turn around and figure out what was happening, and create a replacement for Chloe. I mean I love zoe, but she essentially was a replacement for queen bee / Chloe
@@TheArtisticAloubell I don't adore Chloe, but there's no denying she has potential that's demanding to be fulfilled and I wish that I would have the opportunity to adore her one day. I think it's interesting that the reason he wants her to remain evil is that she is based off of his childhood bully. Writing and art are like therapy for many people, and I think the way astruc treats the show clearly shows that he has some issues, by which I mean a lot of issues, that he doesn't want to confront. I don't want to unpack his basis for creating Marinette don't make me.
@@Fairygoblet Rather than me adoring Chloe, its more like I adore her potential. Like I said in my video, I love reformed villains and she had the chance to be one (and technically still has a chance if Astruc allows the writing of the show to be fair/make sense). I can definitely understand him projecting his issues into the show. I wouldn't be so upset about the situation had the writers decided to not give her character development and have her actively try to be better. Had they just kept her as the stereotypical mean girl at school, I wouldn't care. But since they did do that and made us sympathize and root for her, it didn't make sense for Astruc to just ignore all of it and take it back. I get that the writers "messed" with his vision while he was off for season 2, but unfortunately, there's not much you can do about that. The best course of action he should have taken would have been to roll with it and accept that this is how the story is now. As a writer, I know that stories can change from your initial vision of it. It's part of the process and part of the fun because you don't 100% know how the end product will end up. But because Astruc was so adamant on his vision staying in tact, he had to retcon Chloe's development and that's not okay. And even worse, saying that she is irredeemable is not a good message =/ Sorry...i didn't mean to go on a rant. If all of this is the result of Astruc having some pent up issues, I truly pray for him that they get worked out and he finds peace. I just hope he works through them in a healthier way and spread a good message.
@@TheArtisticAloubell holy cow he was off for season 2? That explains a lot actually. The infighting in the writers room thing was just a theory I didn't know so much backed it up. As a writer I find that I have the easiest time when I like all my characters, even when I wouldnt I'm real life. It makes everything flow more organically when you see them impartially. I personally think there's an aspect of wish fulfillment in a lot of professional media and it's okay as long as the author keeps tabs on it. Some people don't know how to exercise restraint for the sake of a good story. Not looking forward to ephemeral but I'm hoping we'll at least get some good lore out of it that Carries over to the rest of the show, like with cat Blanc.
@@Fairygoblet I don't know for 100% certain, but I heard that Astruc was sick during the production of season 2 and couldn't oversee much (if not any) of it. That's when the writers that were left (presumably) began working on Chloe's character development. But when Astruc came back, he didn't like what had happened, and so the reversing of her development began instead of him just rolling with it. But again, that's just what I heard. Either way, the current situation is a big shame and I do hope for good things to come for both Astruc and the show.
17:51 this is what I mean, shes an actor, so how do we know shes not faking her personality. If she helped marinette pick up apples to get a miraculous, then everyone in Paris should get one as well. Even lila because she got her un expelled. Your character arc of her is the best one I've ever heard. It makes sense and includes everyone it needs too, unlike mine. You make its that everyone is okay with this and that everything doesn't happen overnight. Anyone who is interesting (Adrien, Chloe, I guess Kagami and Luka and so many others) get thrown out of the way and I would dare to say its so that nobody gets more like than Marinette. I would love it if everything Astruc is doing was just a joke and your arc should be put into the show, but not as the main view. If your going to go like that, i think the story should switch to Adrien POV for most of the episode and should sometimes be in mari's pov. O it should be in some kind off spin off show.
RIGHT?! I'm really hoping that the writers have some self-awareness and realize that everyone who isn't deemed a "bad guy" has the same sugary-sweet personality, just in different flavors lol They have to be aware of that, right? So adding another uber sweet character like Zoe is just redundant and boring. Hopefully she has some edge to her! Also, thank you! I'm glad you like my version of her character arc, although I know various fanfictions have done an amazing job in giving her an awesome arc as well. If only the show did that too :'D I seriously hope Astruc is trolling about her, otherwise its such a waste of a character DX From what I've heard, you're right. The show/writers favor Marinette too much and don't allow others to shine. Especially Adrien who is arguably more interesting than Marinette and he's had like...what...1 or 2 episodes from his POV? Hopefully things in the show get better sonn! Thank you so much for watching and commenting!
I also want Chloé to return as Queen Bee in Miraculous Chibi as well since we got Marinette, Adrien and Stormy Weather aka akumatized Aurore. Since I saw her chibi concept design along with Gabriel/Hawk Moth, Tikki, Plagg, Alya/Rena Rouge, and Nino/Carapace which haven't appeared in the initial run of webisodes. And give Chloé her own websodes for total redemption and prove to Ladybug she would become a wiser and nicer bee superheroine and earns back the respect of Paris. And with her first websode taking place right after she defeats Wasperia, if Vesperia aka Zoe gets akumatized in a possibe two parter story with help from Ladybug, Cat Noir and Sabrina and Ladybug becomes her mentor and teacher.
Okay. After ALL THE CHARACTER ASSASSINATION for Chloe from the latest seasons, I am sad to say that redemption just isn’t a lesson Thomas Astruc can teach.😥 It’s obviously been made clear that Chloe was based off of Astruc’s bullies and I think it’s plain to see that he still holds grudges for a VERY LONG TIME that carried over to Chloe. She’s practically not even a character anymore! Just a punching bag for Thomas’s grudges, and a worker bee to both Monarch and Lila. She’s merely a shell of the queen bee she once was, and that’s just disappointing. What’s even worse is that Audrey, her EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE and neglectful mother, will now be a lot more involved in controlling her daughter’s life at London, which will make her even more miserable and feel hopeless towards any chance at redemption. Thomas practically wrote the most depressing damnation arc for a girl who had such a big chance of turning her life around.
You got the gist of Chloe's... mess right, so I won't mention anything about that. But yeah, the biggest issue I've noticed with Thomas Astruc's tweets is that he is... incredibly rude and dismissive to a LOT of people, particularly towards anyone that questions his decisions and/or answers, often in an incredibly rude and condescending manner, and the only people he treats with any real decency online are those that don't talk about the show, or who just shower blind praise on every decision and choice he makes. He also has an infamous track record of going back on his own opinions and contradicting himself. A LOT. You are right that people shouldn't attack him, as that has a history of ending poorly. The first time he was seriously attacked, he started a policy of blocking ANYONE he labels a harasser, a hater, a spammer, etc., basically anyone he doesn't like, or anyone who tries to talk to him about topics he treats as open and shut cases. Some of his apologists have painted it as him being sick of having to repeat answers but... most people who try and ask him questions would have no way of knowing if he's answered that same question, or one very similar to it, before, so his conduct is still out of line, especially when the person asking is going out of their way to be polite and respectful towards him. One of the biggest things about Thomas Astruc's behavior, and how it relates to Chloe, is his extreme insistence on certain topics. He blindly insists that Chloe is not being abused, despite the fact that Audrey is openly emotionally abusive towards Chloe via neglect and indifference, and that Chloe is a privileged princess who is absolutely spoiled and has no redeeming qualities. What makes it worse is that he'll gleefully point out Chloe's bad moments, and brush aside and ignore any of her good moments. Several people have come out on Tumblr with personal stories of circumstances similar to Chloe's relationship with her mother, or just someone close to them that they held in high regard like Chloe does to Audrey, and have said that Thomas is wrong to say that Chloe is a privileged brat who is bad just because. Thomas just refuses to listen to ANYONE other than himself. No to mention Thomas makes insane excuses for his characters, and constantly tries to portray the main protagonists, specifically Adrian, is perfect and can do no wrong, despite Adrian repeatedly showing his flaws and childish traits. Sorry for this long drawn out rant, I've just read a LOT about Thomas' behavior and attitude, and it just rubs me the wrong way to a massive extent. He inspired the creation of a blog specifically titled "TheImmaturityOfThomasAstruc" on Tumblr, also known as IOTA, and that should tell a person a LOT about what he's like online.
I've definitely heard of Astruc's rude behavior before. As I havent interacted directly with him myself and haven't seen the full circumstances and contexts under which he sends out the rude tweets, I still don't want to make assumptions about him or have people attack him. Even if he is 1000% in the wrong, which he very well might be. It's definitely one thing if he just wants to block the haters and harassers, but if someone is giving respectable, legitimate criticism, it's something that all artists and creators need, or else we won't grow. It is my hope that he does learn from his mistakes eventually so that he can write something of really high quality. But yeah, I definitely, at least, have to call him out on his flawed thinking about Chloe and people like Chloe and how poorly he's treating her and her situation. As a writer, it isn't cool to ignore her development, and as a person, it's not cool to just say that this 14/15 year old with problems has no chance of redemption. It just rubs me SO the wrong way. I know he's the head writer, but I'm really hoping the other writers/staff convinced him that Chloe should have a chance to be redeemed and that they have something planned for her.
Well, according to some stuff I've seen online, but haven't yet made an effort to corroborate, the reason Chloe got the Bee Miraculous in the first place was because some higher-ups wanted her to be a hero. Apparently, Thomas didn't like that, as he then went on to create a "totally intended from the start Fake-Out" with Chloe being a hero, culminating in Miracle Queen. As much as I disliked the reasoning behind it, it could've been a masterstroke. Him making Chloe's Redemption a fake-out could've been an incredible "Take That!" against those who wanted to control his creative choices and decisions, alongside the other writers and directors, but it was handled sloppily, creating some build-up into Chloe's character and her sympathetic traits, but routinely dropping the ball and having Chloe get the short-end of the stick, and Astruc was somehow surprised that fans weren't happy about what he did. While Chloe's heaviest haters were probably elated, it was honestly just some bad writing to me. What's worse is how often Thomas makes people act out of character or ignores his own show's canon for the sake of the plot, such as in the latest season where, after the mess that was Miracle Queen, every one of the Temp-Holders that Ladybug calls upon has had their identities exposed to Hawkmoth, the very thing that made Marinette decide not to give Chloe back the Bee Miraculous in the first place, yet she still continues to call upon them, with Hawkmoth actively spying on them to boot! Another big issue is how self-contradictory, and in some cases flatout hypocritical, Thomas can be about the show and the characters. He has gone on record stating that the show isn't very deep and that people are reading too much into it, but he has also gloated about how deep and inclusive the show is, and how their are deeper reasons behind for certain character's portrayal and existence. He REALLY likes using the deeper meaning excuse for Chloe, as he's actually stated to people who question why, exactly, Chloe is incapable of change, and he has replied at least on one occasion that the person didn't "understand what Chloe represents." Or how when people bring up Chloe's personal life and how bad it is, he crudely deflects to how rich she is and how she can buy whatever she wants, whenever she wants, as if that's all the justification he needs for her being a B!ct# and why she is incapable of change, allegedly. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but if you want to get some context as to what Thomas is like online, and get some empirical evidence about some of the things I've mentioned, you should check out the blog named ImmaturityOfThomasAstruc on Tumblr, as it regularly uses Screenshots of Thomas' social media as visual citations for Thomas' behavior, so people can't just brush the blog off as a salt blog that doesn't know what it's talking about. Thanks for your time!
@@kylemorgan2301 Dang =/ It's a shame that things went/go down that way. But something that definitely does bug me how Marinette was so concerned about Hawkmoth knowing the other hero's identities and yet she is still giving the miraculous to the same people whose identities were already revealed. If Astruc wanted to stay consistent, we would have an entire new cast of heroes with the exception of the two leads. It's a shame he's not catching onto the benefits of character development or...even following what he wrote =/ Thank you for all of the useful info!
with how miraculous has turned out i'm glad to say all that glittered was at least not just piss and fools gold, getting a few flecks that seem like they'll turn up a carat or 3
What’s even worse is that Thomas made an episode to make Cloe the reason Marinate stalks Adrien. That’s just blaming the victim far too much… He killed a flock of birds with a boulder.
also if i had to choose a miraculous for zoe thats not a bee,i would pick a new animal like something that represents the two faced type style or a animal that looks cute and innocent,to show zoes overly nice side she could be pretending to be,it would be like something similar to a crow or a raven,or imagine something like a wolf like the saying "wolf in sheeps clothing"
Oooo! A wolf! that would be cool. I only made her a fish in my edit cuz I realized they had no aquatic animals for kwamis (I know cat and ladybug have aquatic forms, but there is no legit aquatic animal). But a wolf would be super cool especially if Zoe does end up being bad X3
@@TheArtisticAloubell omg yes fish kwamis sound cool :D also the edit was amazing very creative style an true sense we dont really have fish and wolf kwamis in the show it would match pretty well
@@arcticwolflover263 haha my edit really isn't that good. I was just trying to get the point across lol. But I'm glad you liked it! Maybe they'll add new kwamis in the future! A random eagle showed up during the New York special, so maybe we'll have a fish or wolf sometime too!
A butterfly! Because from what I know about biology, although they may look majestic and beautiful, some butterflys have an disturbing diet of feeding themselves of poo, sweat,tears,blood and even full blow rotting corpses, so I guess it would be a good metaphor for Zoe's true nature of latching herself on people's good side! (cough cough, marinette)
@@rockhistoria2537 That would be neat! Although...aren't they going to introduce a hero with a butterfly miraculous in the future? Won't the hero from Brazil be like Lady Butterfly or something? And I thought Hawk Moth already had the butterfly miraculous? O_O Oooo wait. You know what would be super cool? If Zoe became the next Hawk Moth. That would be such a punch to the gut XD Then she really will be the butterfly X33
I really liked your rewrite and throughout it, no one seems out of character which when they are not it is a pet peeve of mine when I read fanfiction of miraculous and someone is out of character. You have my respect. Also, I noticed like yesterday that Chloe Bourgeois and Diamond Tiara have very similar roles to their respective shows, so to see it in a youtube video, that reassures me that I am not crazy
Thank you! 😁💐 That bugs me too in fanfiction when characters are OOC, so when I write fanfics, that is definitely something I like to pay attention to x3 Otherwise the story isn't believable )X And I'm glad that I'M not the crazy one lol The two characters are very similar in many ways!
14:36 "She's probably not going to be akumatized anymore-" Uhhh, yeah, about that... (She is going to on one of the next episodes, at least I've heard that it could be a Sabrina character development episode)
😫😓 I heard about that. I hate it. If her being akunatises 1 million times doesn't contribute to her redemption, then it's so annoying and repetitive. Good for Sabrina development, but we have to bring down Chloe to do it 😖
By now all characters are empty shells. They can’t be unique and different from Marionette without being a villain. They have to be nice and bland as cardboard to be accepted bonus if they are perfect Mary Sues with the curvy bodies (notice only Chloe has no curves on her body “rectangular body type” and her sister and good girls have curvy bodies. Then again this show is written by a sexist man child.
18:50 I actually did this in my rewrite. Chloe gets the bee and Zoe gets an Orca miraculous (I made that one up to replace the rooster because I find orcas cool and the rooster is stupid over powered)
After Chloe's redemtion got thrown in the trash, I started to sympathaize more with her than Marinette and her Gal Palz. And if season 5 is anything to go by, That's Not A Good Thing. I've seen Chlogami's work before and liked it.
4:02. Technically, Alya is the first person in the show to break out of Akumatization minutes after being Akumatized. while Chloe resisted before the purple bubbles consumed her.
Fellow Christian here. I love how you suscinctly explained why Chloe's supposed irredeamability bothers you, I didn't know how to explain myself through this lens and I really appreciated someone putting it into words.
It's been a while since i've picked up may sketchpad.......9 months to be exact, but your work is so pretty. Inspiring, even. Also, I heavily agree with the video. Everything that you spoke about makes a lot of sense. They did Chloe dirty, and she could've or can still be saved,ya knor. Like, I didn't like her at first, but after I kept watching--as messy as the series may be-- I started to like Chloe. She's been through a lot. Oh mah gosh, not the pun at 5:24 Okay, but the way you Write Chloe's fan-fiction is so amazing, and would fall into the storyline perfectly, and would not only benefit Chloe, but also give us more Adrien/ Cat Noir screentime since Miraculous focuses was too much on Marinette. So thanks for that
Thank you so much! I'm happy you like my art. If drawing is what you enjoy, you should totally get back into it again ^0^ And I'm happy you liked the video! Glad I'm not the only one a little annoyed with how the writers are handling Chloe. Thanks so much for watching and for commenting! ^_^
Chloe had shown with the right push and guidance, she could be a good person. If she truly was irredeemable, she wouldn’t have returned the miraculous after being gently encouraged by Ladybug and Cat Noir and apologize near the end of Queen Wasp. She also wouldn’t have confessed after being lightly probed by Ladybug. She deserved better
Exactly, Chloe was showing promise, and I did not think of that Chloe seeing ladybug's rejection as her mother walking out on her and that is just sad. But regarding that fanfic I love that idea so much!
Honestly, it would have made more sense to pull in Mireille or Aurore as the new Bee wielder, rather than making up Zoé. These characters were introduced in the very first episode, it would be easy to incorporate them more regularly since they are both in Marc's class at the school, and Aurore at least is another known victim of Chloé's bullying. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Mireille is shown defending and comforting Aurore right after Chloé bullies her.
marinette was too harsh and mean to Chloe. If she had acted as good and wise as Captain America by giving her one more chance and defeating papillon right away, then all that mess never would have happened! ladybug deeply disappointed me, so as punishment: my vote for marinette is a DEFINITE ZERO It's all thomasastruc's fault
I had to stop watching the show after they did her dirty. One of my favorite characters who could be redeemed and be a wonderful role model to other girls just got b-slapped by the writers and labeled as an irredeemable villain with no hope of redemption while ego-centric marinette gets to be considered a “saint”. Yeah, she’s clever and has a good heart hut she’s a mary sue with attitude. Chloe has soooo much more potential and development and it was all thrown away 😭😭😭
RIGHT?! I really dislike wasted potential...especially with reformed villains. It's such a harmful message that they're doing with Chloe. I sincerely hope someone in the writers room convinces Astruc to let them follow through with Chloe's redemption cuz otherwise it's totally not cool what they're doing.
I want Chloe to be that one teammate which is just annoying to deal with, but is needed to save the day so you have to put up with her. Fun interactions! (It'll also be great if her powers reflected that instead of being a ladybug lookalike)
I think it would have been nice if Chloe, after some soul searching during her brief stint as Queen Bee, decides she's not ready/worthy to be a superhero, and decides to give back her Miraculous to Ladybug/Mari. Touched by Chloe's humility, Mari assures her that one day, she'll be ready. Also, "A queen serves her subjects, just as they serve her!"
That was excellent. The fact that Chloe doesn’t know how to change and she thinks that she can’t is very sad. Maybe if the others actually tried to help her, then she would have become better. But that’s not what the writers did, which is frustrating. She does have the power to change, but it seems they didn’t give her a chance nor helped her.
From what i could gather, Mari didn't let Chloe help the time her parents were akumatized was because she saw the boy she likes with the competition, and decided to ask that girl for help so that she couldn't go on a date with said boy, so, she is partially guilty for Chloe getting pissed at her (Chloe's parents got transformed after all), does she admit it? no
@@TheArtisticAloubell Cyrus The Great is right when he says she became a Mary Sue (judging by his reviews) and that Master Su Han hasn't been proven wrong about anything he said, despite the plot saying otherwise.
@@TheArtisticAloubell i also have to disagree with Astruc about Chloe, she is too young to be irredeemable, also, even bullies like Chloe, or delinquents have good in them, for example Kayo Majiba from Machimaho, she is a delinquent that got accidentaly chosen as a Magical Girl,so she is rude, abrasive, and since this is an adult parody of the genre, she is very brutal to the monsters that attack the city, often reducing them to chunks of meat and blood, since said monsters kill humans,it is justified. Kayo has good in her however and it shows from time to time.
be careful!!! MAri might as well call both of them (the Venom could stop Loveater and the Wind gather the hearts) but CHloe HAD TO speak to her in a civil way rather than do worse
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT She would have, if Astruc wasn't so focused in undoing every bit of progress she made and assassinating her character. Don't even get me started on Mari just letting Felix, a sociopath who did worse than Chloe by bringing Monarch into existence, keep the Peacock Miraculous, if Chloe doesn't get a redemption, he doesn't deserve it either, he arguably did what Gilda Dent did on The Long Halloween, and just like the movie, that bastardized the story of the comics, she suffered no repercussions, while in the comics she disappeared from Gotham, after all, every citizen there would want her head on a pike after her actions caused a power vaccum in the underworld that was occupied by Batman's Rogues Gallery.
Fun fact: Thomas said he "wanted" to redeem Chloe, but in his words "I can't redeemer her and still keep her attitude". Remember, he redeemed Felix changing his whole personality for worse, and also he redeemed Gabriel, yeah, that fucking terrorist who was a psychology abuser with his own som, and also the terrorist that didn't care about akumatizations just to get magic jewelry.
Your fanfiction sounds like it would be a great half season arch and it would be a nice in-between true story for her and doesn't need too much time for it. You really got that resonation in terms of trust And plus that idea of her learning to earn what she worked for. It's great. I love that idea.
That would be so heartbreaking 😭 I hope that doesn't happen. I'm also hoping for some kind of Zoe development, as long as it's done right. Cuz as of now, she's pretty nothing.
@@TheArtisticAloubell yeah...i am constantly scared they'd write off chloe like this, to teach the young a lesson in giving into your greed. ...the worst part will be that no one will remorse for her. shes just be a scapegoat
@@TheArtisticAloubell honestly, season 3 left a bad taste in my mouth....and because of that i cantreally enjoy the season 4 so far...especiallt with all the stupid decisions made by the charecters
Zoey being a secretly evil person? Hey now that sounds so crazy that it actually could work and be a great idea for a twist villain. Maybe include that in Bonds Beyond Fate.
I'd also like to point out that as of in Queen Banana, the door in the show itself is self open for Chloe to become a better person. In the show itself, the door is not yet closed for self improvement and betterment. Thomas Astruc is a mastermind in redirection, diverting our (audience) expectations. So long as the show itself, as of in Queen Banana, has the door open for Chloe, I'm going to believe that her direction is up in the air. Even after Queen Wasp, and Queen Banana, the show itself, Marinette, Adrien, and Zoe themselves, are ROOTING for Chloe. Until they are not, I will also continue to root for Chloe. Zoe's future is unsure, whether or not she is staying or leaving. I think she's supposed to play the role os betterment-ship, like Luka's/Kagami's transitionships.
I really hope that's true! I do agree with you, though. I believe that Chloe's expression when Zoe hugged her was an indication that she still has a heart and can change. So lets hope for the best!
@@TheArtisticAloubell yesss! It's important to remember that Thomas Astruc will straight up lie to us to misdirected/mislead our expectations. I think he outright lied to us about Chloe to stir us up, it's got us talking about it, right? MORE SO if he just said "yeah Chloe will be a good baddies, just as she deserves," like we'd all be like "whoo! When?" But the uncertainty has got us talking, theorizing, even straight up ANGRY!! Lol, why did he have to talk about Chloe the way he did? Honestly I just feel bad, because like, "princess highschool brat is always going to be princess brat," and you know what, I don't even care if she stayed a princess brat, if she wasn't such a bully. I'd love Chloe to be a sassy ball-buster, instead of "women are only good if they are NICE AND GOOD AND COMPLETE THEIR WOMENLY ROLES AS EMPATHETIC NURTURERS," because that's not what women are, those are the roles placed/instilled on women for centuries, but that's not what women are, and it's sad to only reward women/girls for being "pretty, nice, empathetic nurturers." It's sexist and misogynistic, and as a female-wide fan base, a lot of us adult fans are insecure where Chloe's headed and how she'll be treated. She has great potential to be a great, amazing character, and many people need to fall, hard, hit rock bottom, before they realize how much of a little shit, asshole, etc they were before they change for the better, climbing up out of that well of despair and sorrow, face to face with their own toxicity, demons, bad behavior/habits, and claw their way out of it. We've seen Chloe be nice, actively trying to be a good person. Marinette's not perfect, and has her own toxic behavior/habits, that are laughed at because it's "cute" and also centers her attention around a boy. So it's kinda interesting watching the show as it comes out, from an adult woman's perspective. Also shoutout to YOU, I love the online TH-cam community, at least the few I follow, since most of ya'll are ALSO adults watching the show, and I love y'alls input on it. Sometimes we rip them all apart, like Mari's stalkerish and (her own) bully-complex toxicity (against Chloe especially. Like, I and we get it, but she doesn't face any consequences for her actions, even if she herself is being a bully. But she's also "changed" her behavior when she became friends with Kagami after they were previously "polite" enemies.) But yup yup. I know we all know the existing sexist undertones in the show. I hope they stop making the three girls (Chloe, Kagami, and Mari) pine for Adrien. Honestly it kinda feels like some sadboy's harem wet dream. I would also like to pitch in, while I love Adrinette, I wouldn't be upset in the slightest if Adrigami was still a thing. They did their transitionships dirty, it didn't even last a full 20 minutes, between the end of S3, the NY special, and the beginning of S4. But the end of S3 with them going their seperate ways there was beautiful. Also if Adrien ended up with Chloe, I wouldn't be sad in the slightest either. But Mari needs to stop being cringey around Adrien or it will never happen, and it's so cringe. Also am mad, need more Ladrien scenes. Mari, even as Ladybug, can barely say a word properly to him, and its not Adrien's fault for not seeing the similarities in behavior when they only have one 30s with eachother in that one episode where Ladybug drops him off in his bathroom to shower. Blind bat, they boy is.
@@anobody6564 I really hope he's just lying to conceal an awesome story for her TToTT Something I have a bit of an issue with the show is how all of the good characters are the same kind of nice and sweet. Like...you can be a nice, good person, but not be sugary sweet. Chloe would be such a cool good guy (if handled correctly) because she would keep some of her bite and attitude as traits like that don't just go away. Like...she'd be the kind of good guy who wouldn't let people trample on top of her. She'd be blunt and get things done for the greater good (I think). The show needs that kind of variety. I also agree about the couples. It's terrible that both Lukanette and Adrigami lasted less than 20 min on screen. The fact that the writers thought that was okay just astounds me. They needed several episodes each to develop and show the audience why the couples won't work in the long run. However, I WAS hoping that Luka would find out Marinette's identity cuz he had been through so much and deserved to know the truth. I'm glad it happened, though I know he'll be burdened with this knowledge DX Poor boy. In any case, thank you for your thoughtful comments
I feel like they could give Lila the development if they aren't going to pick up where they left off with Chloe. Yet again, I don't think they will because this show is...... The writers..............Thomas........Idk, I think Jeremy could have done everything so much better because he actually said Chloe has a good heart, just misunderstood and mistreated or something like that, which is true, she had the best potential out of everyone and deserved redemption. I love Chloe so much and hate how they ruined her, honestly really ruined my view on the show(and it was already bad before)
Ah yes, Lila. I've heard about her. I've havent seen anything about development towards her. But if the writers decide to give her legit development, I'd be down for that! I actually didn't know that Zag had a positive view on Chloe! Hopefully his influence inspires the writers to go forth with a redemption for her ^_^ I'm sorry the show was ruined for you. But hey...fanfiction exists! haha But who knows? the show isn't over yet, so maybe they'll surprise us all!
This makes me question what even was the point of making Lila quote "worse than Chloe" when the writers were going to double down on Chloe being bad and pretty much erasing Lila or making her a minor character.
@@JayRedGear That is very true. If Chloe really won't be redeemed, then Lila has no narrative purpose. Two bullies of the same type is redundant. If done well, Chloe would reform and Lila could be her foil or an image of what Chloe could have been had she not changed.
@@lemonsweets220 Such a passionate response, oh my goodness XD I've heard that Lila barely has any development, so I definitely agree it would be cool to get some of that so that the audience can understand her more! ^0^ And Marinette definitely isn't perfect. It's okay that she has flaws, however, from what I hear, the show fails at having the other characters point out her flaws or Mari noticing her own flaws. And that's what makes it frustrating because she can't mature if she isn't shown whats she's doing wrong.
Like you said Chloé at the end of S5 she does come to her lowest point. Sabrina left her, her mother said that she'll will sent to new york and she will take control of Chloé. She currently has no one by her side. Her father is no longer the Mayor. and when Marisue tells her off the last time in Chloé's last appearance in S5. There was legit guilt on her face and she cried... My poor baby 😭... And the writers used Chloé just because they wanted to cover up Marisue “stalking thing”
I've heard some people say Diamond Tiara didn't deserve her redemption but I disagree strongly. She's the elementary school bully. She's like 8 years old at most. She's a little girl. Saying an 8 year old doesn't deserve a second chance is stupid. It's the same case for Chloe; she's a child. She's the middle school bully. She has room to change
"I don't want to watch it. I don't want to" Honestly relatable. Like I'll still keep in mind shows to watch later but I usually too into other fandoms to start anything new
thomas astruc has made it clear he has no interest in redeeming chloe anymore. which is a shame cause she had potential and an arc for a bit before he tore it down. but i wanna say your voice audio is way too quiet, especially next to your intro music- food for thought. sorry, but maybe itll help
That makes me so sad D'X Hopefully another writer or director votes him out of that decision )'X Thank you for letting me know about my audio! I can't project my voice as much as I'd like to cuz I live with other people, but I'll try to increase the volume in the editing process. Thanks for watching! ^_^
This is the BEST video on Chloe I’ve seen so far!! I love concept of how she could get redeemed and TRULY hope that something like that happens but I sadly don’t think it will:(…
Your idea is AMAZING!But there are many things to consider when Redeeming Chloe,and just bringing down Sabrina and her father probably won't be enough,cause you gotta notice that Chloe being this way is exactly like how her mom is.She tries to impress her mom throughout season 2-3 and IG 4 too.But Yah I really your idea on Chloe's redemption hope there'd actually be a possibility that it might work and happen
Thank you! X3 Chloe has shown in canon to be a bit more self-aware than her mom is (ya know...when she's written well), so I think if the one person she's dominated without resistance (Sabrina) rises up against her, it'll be a wake up call. But that's just a theory X3 Naturally, the writers can do whatever they want, but this seems to make sense to me X3
The problem with Astruck is not that he writes bad stuff, but it's that he is petty and doesnt want to take any criticism. Eearly seasons contradict what he is saying and to save himself he finds bad excuses that get contradicted with a different scene. All he needs to do is just say he doesnt like Chloe because of his own personal bias and not cuz of some message he tries to send. New seasons and how Chloe is treated seems so personal and evil, a teen getting all alone and losing everybody seems, well I wont say it but it SEEMS wrong.
Same here; always love reformed villains/bullies. Pacifica actually is my favorite out of them, followed by Black Cat from the Spider-Man comics and Amity Blight and Lilith Clawthorne of Owl House. One of the whole reasons I wrote a fanfic that involved Chloe was because they had ruined her so badly in season 3. (The main reason of course being just putting them all into one of the biggest staples of Paris: the Catacombs)
It is a really awesome trope. Even if its overdone, as long as its done well, I don't mind, cuz I love the message of the reformed villain. So to see Astruc say that Chloe is irredeemable is really frustrating X(
I really don't mess with the idea than a whole entire human being can just be born a villain the way astruc seems to be making chloe out to be. It feels like the kind of idea you get as a kid and then are supposed to grow out of as you learn to be compassionate and think about the bigger picture.
18:52 Aloubell: if you can make an eagle miraculous we can make a fish miraculous Me , who made an eagle miraculous: *sweating nervously* wait how did she?_
I look at the situation with Chloe in the same light, as a Christian, I do believe Chloe should have been helped, forgiven, and shown a better way tbh.. but she was left out so much she became even more vulnerable to evil.. which is tragic At 17:23, apparently Zoe's hero name is a play on the family or genus of some wasps.. not bees! Love your rewrite
Considering Miraculous will still be around for a few more seasons, I REALLY hope they do something positive with Chloe DX I'm aware Vesperia meant wasp or something--that's even more reason for me not to care for her LOL Wasps are the worst and have no other purpose than being the worst. I sincerely hope Zoe is a villain haha Thank you for your kind words
17:21 vesperia is also named after wasps (vespids) which, on a better written show, would probably be a hint to something about her. knowing miraculous it's probably just carelessness. like, ants are hymenoptera too but don't see them designing a bee miraculous holder to look like and be named after an ant.
i really appreciate your honesty and your maturity regarding people's opinions. i agree, people are free to have differing opinions and that's no reason to attack the people that have different ideas to yours (despite my frustrations with astruc's attitude towards both chloe's character and to the fans of her seeming redemption). i have frustrations but I won't attack anyone for them because these are my views and those are theirs etc. anywho, i'm also a Christian, and I appreciate your openness to this fact as it is also a major factor in how I interact with, perceive, and create stories etc. keep up the awesome work! I've just subscribed to your channel!
The day the CREATOR has to TELL the AUDIENCE that a character is bad, is the day they should realize that they failed at writing.
It's such a shame he feels like he needs to do that >.
Another telltale sign of bad writing is if people have divided opinions that have no in-betweens that provoke random Internet wars.
In regards to what you said, though, there's a thing called "show, don't tell" and if what you're showing is so bad that you have to directly tell people, then that's bad writing. There's also "actions speak louder than words", which can be yet another indicator of bad writing if what you're showing contradicts what you're telling the audience, or if blatant hypocrisy can be seen in either the writing or the words of the creators.
The idea of Adrian telling Chloe of all people that he's Chat Noir is the biggest, riskiest and most galaxy brained idea I have ever heard. That is brilliant.
Hehe I'm glad you liked that addition. I figured Adrien deserved a confidant as well x33
how is it brilliant when you obviously know that she is going to tell the whole world which puts him and other people at risk
@@borisspivak6998
Because of it's high risk reward!!! Imagine it, if done well, this Chloe's last chance to being a better person and a better friend. If Chloe fails and acts as she has done in the past, Adrian is doomed, he loses his Miraculous, his father probably beats him up and steals Plagg, and the show will have a bad end.
BUT... If Chloe becomes someone better, becomes the Chloe Adrian sees her as... she will become the greatest confidant the world has ever seen. Adrian needs to sneak out of a situation, Chloe will be THE BEST distraction the world has ever seen. If Adrian needs her, she's coming to his house NOW and talking to him. If he needs help, she will move all of Paris around to make it happen.
And while she is helping Adrian... she has to learn what it means to help others. All of season 2 and even moments in season three, showed Chloe growing into a role of a hero (or at least antihero) and learning what it meant to help people. If she hit rock bottom and was about to lose it all...and this was her last chance to be better and she actually took it, imagine the change that she would go through. Imagine how she could help Adrian...imagine her and him reminiscing over okd times, flashbacks to their childhood and realizing...they havn't been this close in years. Chloe realizing that she does not just want to be a hero to be acknowledged by her mom...but because she wants to help people.
The change that could happen for her and Adrian is so amazing to think about, that it's hard to even think about. In this dire state, this will either work, or it will lead to their doom. There is no half way, there isn't a third option, it's do or die.
@@ChasehaWing First, you spelled Adrien's name incorrectly, and second, Chloe cannot be a better person now because of the path the writers have chosen to take. You can theorize all you want but at the end of the day, the writers aren't going to do anything with her and as of right now, she cannot be redeemed. I would be really glad if she got rewritten out of the show since she serves no purpose.
@@borisspivak6998
They had their chance to write her out at season 3. Literally. She said she was going to America with her mom and if they had gone that path, everyone would be disappointed (forever) but it would have been LEAGUES better than what they are currently going with.
If she serves no point, and if she's not getting a redemption OR a villian arc, then she is literally taking up space that could have gone to the other 18 characters in the show. Or at least could have gone to the best villian in the show: Lila. (Not joking. She is the absolute BEST villian).
Also this is not about what they'll do in canon, it's about what could have been done. What the potential could have been had they gone this route. It's a ballsy move. More so then anything in the show has done up till this point (season 4.) And that's why I love the idea.
If zoe turns out to be secretly evil that would be great it would make sense why her whole personality is just nice because she’s a “great” actor and it would make her design as vesparia make sense and if chloe ever gets redeemed (which is highly unlikely)I would like her to keep her sassy personality as it would bring variety to the show
1000% agreed.
I also agree about Chloe. If she becomes good, I want her to stay spicy to break up the monotony of all of the sugary sweet characters. X3
It would also be an interesting storyline. Zoe has Marinette's unrequited trust but betrays her while Chloe, who Marinette never trusted, was trying to be better without the support.
Unfortunately, she just turned out out to be queerbait. Nothing more
At this point fanfiction >>>> actual show when it's Miraculous. All I want to see is Chloe admitting to her mistakes, apologizing to everyone and slowly redeeming herself and becoming a greater person. And with that development she's more worthy of the Bee Miraculous because she's more mature and she's *_REDEEMED_*
YUP. The fanfiction provides the satisfaction and development that the show either doesn't deliver or takes too long to deliver on.
Chloe's character is such a missed opportunity. I hope they don't waste it >.
Fr and zoe can go back whever she came from 😍
Thank you! I'm glad that others appreciate Chloé
If they wanted a pure evil villain where they want to teach some people can’t change. WE HAVE LILA, USE HER! We haven’t seen her all season 4.
I know she’s gonna be in the finale based on the spoiler, but JUST the finale?
Chloe can be the redeemable villain where there’s a lesson that people can change and Lila can be the pure evil villain where even if you tried hard to make them good, they’ll never change.
I agree! Having both villains come out with different outcome based off of life choices would have been great! And if they intended to never reform Chloe, they should have never made her sympathetic or show that she's self aware and have a good side. =/
@@TheArtisticAloubell That’s why I like stories where they pit a reformed villain against the hate sink villain to make it all the more satisfying for the before the villain to complete his or her arc
She was also in Penalteam... But, that episode is a dumpster fire.
@@Silver-Kaitou what’s that?
Right? The show has too many characters but I feel that forcing Chloe to be a pure Villain is a bit crowded tbh. It deluded the villains's screentime for Chloe. I think overall, if Thomas hated Chloe so much, he should have just written her out of the show.. like move away permanently.
I don't think that Thomas is joking. I genuinely believe that he's being serious about Chloé being irredeemable. In one of his tweets, he compared Chloé fans (including myself) and Chloé to abusers.
I like to remain optimistic X'D The show will be around for a few more seasons, there's a chance he'll either change his mind, reveal he was joking, or someone else on the team will take over and realize Chloe's arc needs a satisfying conclusion. If he said that, though, then that wasn't cool =(
Even if he sincerely doesn't like Chloe, he should be a bit more civil than that.
@@TheArtisticAloubell maybe he is lying?
@@snivygreen2216 In this situation, I do hope that's the case!
He’s a grown man calling a 15 year old girl irredeemable 🤡
@@TheArtisticAloubell Kinda late but I feel like that's something that one shouldn't joke about (comparing fans to actual abusers)
4:19 Oh it's _way_ worse. Mari was still in her super possessive phase with Adrien and got distracted seeing Kagami and Adrien hanging out. She forgot to detransform and picked the dragon miraculous instead of the bee miraculous. Even when asked by Master Fu if she's sure, Ladybug insisted that the dragon miraculous was the correct one. Marinette caused the Miracle Queen incident AND got Master Fu figured out and cornered and the show doesn't call her out for it.
OHHHH. Oh that hurts. Poor Chloe got snuffed because Marinette had terrible priorities D'X
I mean, yeah, Chloe could have handled it better, for sure, but Mari definitely had a part to plan in this.
Thank you for the clarification!
and Marisue.... is responsible for Volpina/Chamaleon... and Reflectdoll...
@@juan_jose_bueno_velasquez oh wow haha
But the Show did call her out on it… or Rather Marinette was the one who called herself out. She had the mental breakdown about it right before the second half of the season 3 finale. She knew that it was her fault that all of that happened
@@RayCeaAlm And then she's completely fine for the next four episodes (and even then, the breakdown she has at the end of E3 doesn't pertain to the incident) _and_ she gets made the guardian. Not to mention, iirc, S4 has yet to bring up the fact that Mari is largely at fault for the Miracle Queen incident but it's brought up and drilled in the Chloe messed up in the finale.
I have to say, Thomas is really wrong in how people like Chloe doesn't change
Why do I say he's wrong? I'll go into a personal story of mine and my boyfriend
My boyfriend has DID, I've always know about it since we met (that was 10 years ago), my boyfriend's alter wasn't very kind, he was hostile to my boyfriend and to me BUT that is because he, like my bf, was alone and afraid and he felt like his life was being stolen so he lashed towards us, very very hard
We had lots of fights and clashes but the more we talked (more like, angry and sarcastic conversations) the more we opened to each other and the more he began to change
We later learned he was very envious of our relationship, because no matter how many times he tried to separate us he couldn't do it, he just wanted to have his own life, to have someone who loved him, to feel real love
After a lot (I mean A LOOT) of talking between the three of us we began to form some agreements and limits, my Bf's alter is now my Bf too since we fell for each other after a while, of course that doesn't mean he didn't have some consequences for all of his actions and he's still learning but really if we had to compare the way he was before vs the way he is now he did a complete 180 and he wants to change even more
And I feel that Chloe needs more opportunities, she needs more support, more love, someone to talk to for real, like really deep conversations, Chloe deserves SOOOO much more!
Thank you for sharing your experience =)
And thank you for showing an example of someone changing for the better. Such things definitely happen in real life and I think it would be an excellent lesson for children to show that some people, with hard work and people giving them a chance, CAN change. Chloe could be a shining example of that.
I sincerely hope that the writers change their mind about her and that Astruc stops being pessimistic.
We'll see what happens with Chloe! I hope she gets more support ^_^
Thank you for your thoughtful comment~!
tnx fo sharing..You have big help for these people.
If I can ask... what type of alter was he? Was he a persecutor? Did his role in the system also change along with his attitude towards you and your bf?
@@lpsfankanr1 I think he hasn't changed a lot in the system, he's I think a persecutor still
He's not aggressive of course but he still gets defensive easily and he kinda closes himself the moment he misunderstands something (Which is very frequent)
He's working on it tho, but sometimes it feels like walking on egg shells
Wow. That was an amazing story
I gotta disagree with you a bit about the part you said about Astruc being free to do what he wants with his characters. Of course he shouldn't be attacked in a any way and this is his show, but when you've made a show this popular that are marketed towards children, you have to be careful about what you're saying since children are impressionable. Astruc repeatedly states that Chloe will never deserve redemption and will always be bad, to a child, that can make them believe that people who wrong them don't deserve second chances since they can never change. We also can't forget Chloe is a teen, meaning she still has tons of space to mature, but Astruc doesn't seem to care about that, and don't get me started on Marinette's stalker behavior.
It's no real criticism against you, but Astruc does have a responsibility now he's made this show.
Hi hi! Thank you so much for taking the time to watch my video and comment! I really appreciate it! ❤
Now regarding your comment: you're right. Astruc should be held responsible for both hos tweets and the implications within the show. Impressionable teens and kids probably follow him and definitely watch his product, so he shouldn't say hurtful things so casually.
I guess what I meant by him having the freedom to do what he wants with his characters, I just meant that physically, and technically, he is allowed to do whatever he wants cuz he is in charge.
But yes, he 1000% shouldn't use that power to promote that bad message.
Thanks again for commenting! 💐❤
@@TheArtisticAloubell He also shouldn't have made it seem like Mari's creepy stalking was completely okay, and the fact that she could do anything without any real consequences. i think the show has great potential but in my opinion, there are a lot of things that need to be fixed. i also want to see more of Kagami.
Not only does Zoe's costume look more like a wasp than a bee, her super hero name Vesperia is probably derived from the latin name for the wasp family which is Vespidae.
Yup yup! Makes sense!
@@TheArtisticAloubell I can't believe you actually replied to my comment considering it's an old video. I'm subscribing!
@@10Caramella 😁 Of course! I like to reply back when I'm able x3
Thank you! ❤️💕
I always felt Zoe was out of place. She is a wasp, wasps destroy and eat bees. Her sweet attitude feels fake.
@@goldentriforce29She is wasp and they steel bee's Honey so this Means Wasp=Zoe,Bee=Chloe and Honey=Bee Miraculous or Pollen
Yes I love the rewrite ! I especially enjoy the part of Chat revealing his identity to Chloe and it being compared to Alya and Marinette.
Adrien has been very not caring about his identity this season, so maybe he’ll reveal his identity to someone other than LB. I honestly don’t want LB to be the first reveal in his side.
Chloe is a great character and can be redeemed like she was until season 3. If they want someone who isn’t redeemable, Lila makes more sense ….
Thank you
@@TheArtisticAloubell
So sorry for the late response (didnt get this notification) but I returned to this video to rewatch this theory and hear the rewrite again -which i still absolutely adore!
Yes i agree with you that having Lila and Chloe both be irredeemable and used for helping Hawkmoth is ridiculous - especially since Felix seems to be a great choice to fill the role instead of Chloe. Felix could be what Adrien could've been when losing a family member just like you said with Chloe and Lila.
Having different perspective and outcomes would fit this season. They already kind of did it with the episode Truth and Lie.
Also YES!!! Adrien needs more development and focus like come on !
It's hard to explain, but to me, Zoe FEELS like a fanfiction OC. Sole Crusher and Queen Banana both feel like fanfiction episodes. It feels like a fan that loves Marinette and hates Chloé made their own character (kind of like a self-insertion thing) and made her best friends with Marinette and the new holder of the Bee, without a second thought about how it affects the plot of the show, or other characters, or how the audience will take it.
That's how it feels and that's basically how it is. Thomas basically just threw away Chloe's progress because he didn't like her and made his own superhero, his own character, his own side-story, completely wasting the writer's AND the audience's time.
The tricky thing about Chloé and Thomas is that Thomas "based her" off his childhood bully. Except he hasn't based her off them at all. She IS that childhood bully, as far as Thomas is concerned, hence why he won't give her a second chance and acts like she's the spawn of satan, and has this unexplainable hatred for her that nobody else understands. He gets annoyed at Chloé stans that adore her and defend her, because in his eyes, those people are adoring and defending his childhood bully and justifying everything they did to him. And while I can completely understand and sympathise with him over whatever happened to him in his youth, he also kind of needs to wake up and realise that his bully was real. Chloé is not. He needs to realise he's a 47-year-old man arguing with a bunch of young teenagers through a screen, about a fake world with fake people and fake powers.
He's bitter about his childhood bully and doesn't want them to succeed, but the thing is, he is, again, FOURTY SEVEN YEARS OLD. I can't picture his childhood bully is still going around giving people wedgies and stealing people's lunch money. Wjoever hurt him has moved on and Thomas needs to as well. If he doesn't, he's going to end up destroying the show for the sake of his own ego.
Zoe feels SUPER out of place, for sure.
And it's super sad he's projecting his disdain towards his childhood bully onto Chloe. The thing is, I know he never intended for Chloe to get a character arc. I heard Astruc was away for season 2 and the remaining writers at ZAG decided to give her a redemption arc, but when Astruc got back, he disapproved of this change and then undid it. Idk how true this is, but that's what I heard.
@@TheArtisticAloubell Honestly that makes so much more sense if he was away for it, I'd always wondered why he'd okay'd it if he was only going to throw a fit about it in the next season.
you want character destruction for the benefit of Thomas astruc's ego? watch season 5 episode 20 marinette literally vomits thomas lyrics on twitter in this episode my GOD it was awkward! and from the moment the protagonist herself has given up, it's game over for Chloé!
@@phaoragenesisdiraskreia8877 Unless she was literally vomiting up words, it should be figuratively.
@@TheArtisticAloubelland this is why i hate him if i have Charthers who i base off of My Bullies i will give them a Chance to be better people only if they get that chance or not at all
Considering how the show went from a duo to having multiple heroes, Chloe worked in expanding, dare I say diversifying, the pov from our heroes and what makes them a hero and how the journey to becoming one is not set on a straight path. Mari of course has hers but what makes both Adrian and Chloe much more interesting to me is that despite being rich kids, they're both miserable and radiate that misery in different ways. Mari honestly has the best family life between the both but getting back to my point, Adrian's life as Chat Noir gives him freedom, Chloe's stint as Queen Bee gave her purpose but also a look into the difference of being a hero for good vs attention and we see she loved it when she got to be a true hero.
She fits the role of the rival finding out she has more in common with the main and it was great. It was such a fun idea to have a hero that wasn't a direct friend to Mari that would result in both learning to respect each other but.....
That's not going to happen.
Seriously, Adrian and Chloe are the strongest written characters in the show due to their faults but want to overcome them, and in Chloe's case admittance of them. But as a lot of folks have mentioned, Thomas has problems with both despite ignoring how stronger the stories were getting when there was better character interaction that wasn't just about Mari crushing on Adrian. Hell, Hawkmoth was showing REGRET and it looked like he was breaking from being the mastermind to becoming a puppet to someone else in a possible future but FORGET DAT!
It's why I dislike Zoe; she isn't needed and just comes off as another one-note goodie kid that gets powers because she is angelic sweet put-upon. The episode where they have Chloe's dad try to talk to her and the show tried to play it off as tragic made me say f-that to the show because where the heck was this side of him with Chloe?! Everything about her inclusion just buries one of the best parts of the series to the show screaming at us we have to like her because the characters all of a sudden are smitten by her.
This is how you don't do a character arc.
I agree with everything you said X3
Regarding Adrien, even if the writers gave him equal episodes to Marinette so that they could both share their perspective and spotlight, then that would be better than focusing on Marinette all the time. The title has both of their names in it, but Marinette gets most of the attention and respect in-universe.
And as for Zoe, I REALLY hope there ends up being a twist about her and that she is secretly a nasty person. Adding another super duper nice person to the cast is just redundant >.<
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment and for watching!
@@TheArtisticAloubell I kinda doubt it since Thomas expressed such dislike towards Chloe since the get go and if there is a twist, it would mean that the entire cast was forced to act so incredibly out of character JUST for a twist.
I mean, I'm not trying to be a downer but it's not something I would put too much hope behind but it would be nice to see some character development because another season of s1 attitude Chloe comes off as desperate.
@@SuperCosmicMutantSquid Yeah, I see what you mean. I know the likeliness of Chloe finishing her redemption arc is low, but I'll still hope for it. It's like what they say: expect for the worse, but hope for the best!
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Unpopular opinion: Chloe is more relatable than Marinette
Preach! Btw I’m curious are you going to do a video that involves your take on Zoe?
@@indiraturner5506 ofc! In the further future.
She's certainly more interesting than Marinette lol
...actually, the more I think about it, you're right XD
ALSO! I'm new to the MLB analysis community and I see you're one of the top ones! Thanks for stopping by my neck of the woods X3 I appreciate it! ^0^
@@TheArtisticAloubell no problem, dude 😁
Also, thanks for the recognition!
@@eyelove_owlcity Can you how Zoè became a wasted character. She had so much opportunity, BUT WHAT DOES THOMAS DO??
SAY IT WITH ME EVERYONE!!
You know what, the fact that Chloe probably associated ladybugs neglect as similar to her mother’s neglect would have been an awesome point to have in the show, also making her regression arc more believable
I kind of see that. Marinette is hypocritical. The show doesn’t address abuse.
After what happened to chloe I don't think the writers can write complex interesting characters. I'm not here to hate but Chloe was probably the best developed character in the show from being a bully to slowly appreciating people. For them to do this to her shows us that they do not want to write well written characters but give us 2 dimensional clones (everyone acts the same, when people become heroes we are never shown how it actually affects them later on and they act as if it never happened) Zoe was made just to replace Chloe which is sad. I do think her character could have been used to finally redeem chloe without taking her superhero spot. Also I wished they let Adrian redeem chloe instead of Ladybug. Let me explain.. Adrian is chloes childhood and first friend yet as chat noir they never seem to let him get involved with her they always focus on ladybug. When in school he was more involved in choles redemption but that was at a minimum. I wish they let him redeem her instead of having ladybug always involved since Adrian needs more development and a proper storyline instead of being marionettes love interest. I would have loved to see a story of true friendship between those two as the constant love triangle is at this point boring and really forced. If they wanted someone unredeemeable they should have used hawk-moth as he is an adult and has every chance to stop but doesn't, he is willing to use babies to do his evil work so why not write him to be unredeemeable?!
Update on my thoughts 26 August,
Ok I watched some more of miraculous ladybug S4 and I have to say that they do have some interesting storylines and great episodes like wishmaker( Luka is best character 😉) But I don't understand how they have slightly progressed the plot but have completely destroyed all of Chloe's character she is truly back to being in s1. I understand Chloe not liking Ladybug but they destroyed her relationships she shad with other characters that were actually becoming positive. In s1 Chloe treated Sabrina like a slave but as the show went on we learned that Sabrina kinda liked their friendship dynamic and Chloe actually did care for her. In one episode I'm either s2 or S3 she literally defended Sabrina from being akumatised, like that was a big thing, this selfish girl in s1 now caring enough to defend someone and that also indicated that Chloe good intentions and her heart was some way becoming pure. Now she lost all that. She now treats Sabrina like a slave in s1 and in one episode basically almost killed her sister in a horrible selfish way, the optigami episode. They can add character regression in character arcs but I wish they would make her character regression seem a bit more realistic for who she was in s2 and S3, like these scenes don't feel right. I've watched other animes that did this and they always felt right and the characters didn't regress to far that made no sense. The Shanghai special showed us that they can write morality grey characters who are complex and the way they act was a result of their upbringing. I'm hoping that this is a bait and switch and they are trying to surprise with something amazing.
Yes, I completely agree. Adrien's story could easily tie into Chloe's redemption. Give them both more development and screen time. That would be the best option (and add Zoe in there as well).
Thank you so much for watching and for your thoughtful comment! ^_^
I actually like what they did..chloe only wanted to be a hero so she could be liked by everyone...by ladybug....and when lady started being shitty to her...it was just a matter of time before she sided with hawk moth...... and now is the perfect time to give her a redemption arch....sadly they dont want to
@@creativeink4407 You know what? I agree with that. It's fine that she took a few steps backwards as long as she can progress forward again and get past her demons.
Unfortunately, idk if they'll do that, but I'm still hopeful!
@@TheArtisticAloubell thank you for seeing it
@@creativeink4407
I agree, but that only happened because they made it happen. It was so random, like many other things in the show, it felt like the other episodes where wasted as we didn't advance the story much. :(
I'm glad you mentioned the fact that Chloé being portrayed as irredeemable is harmful to kids that have been bullied or the sort (as a fellow Christian), but I also think it's harmful to people that can identify with Chloé to some degree. Some people are egotistical, some people are diva-like, some people have had a disillusionment with their former idol, and some people feel neglected or put down by their parents repeatedly, and no doubt people like that watch Miraculous. To put Chloé in such a negative light in spite of all of that and saying she can't be changed is essentially saying to everyone that can identify with her " lol u suck ", and that's frankly such an irresponsible thing to do. Her having a redemption arc and becoming a protagonist would teach those viewers to not let their negativity corrode them and encourage them to change for the better, not just for everyone around you, but for you; negativity is a destructive force, after all, not just to the individual, but to everyone, in general. I believe that anyone, no matter their age or what they've done, doesn't exactly deserve hate or be seen as completely irredeemable, since anyone and everyone has the potential to become a better person and correct their wrongdoings. People CAN change, and to imply otherwise can really damage someone's outlook on life, but when you encourage change, when you offer them the warmth and support on their journey to become a better person, that's something truly amazing and powerful, and that's a message that's SORELY needed at this day and age which Miraculous could have given a generation that's so influenced by hate and misery.
Thank you so much for the meaningful response! Everything you said is completely spot on
@@TheArtisticAloubell Thanks, homie! Great video, by the way, and your rewrite was quite good, honestly.
@@macaroniwhistlefox8897 Thank you
Also for someone who has never watched the show you basically know everything. Also I love your re-write!
lol When I say that Instagram has a LOT of spoilers, I mean it XD Granted, the algorithm just thinks I'm a fan now and shows me MLB stuff daily. XD
Also, thank you! I'm glad you liked it! ^0^
@@TheArtisticAloubell Yeah. It's great thst you know stuff because of spoilers, but you should still watch some of the show to understand things better and avoid some mistakes. You said in this video that you didn't know why Ladybug initially stopped coming to Chloe to help her with akuma battles. The reason she did that is because she was afraid of Hawkmoth harming Chloe and her family since Chloe revealed her identity at the beginning of Queen Wasp. Rather than telling Chloe immediately that this was the reason she was not using her for battles, Marinette chose to avoid the conversation instead by ignoring Chloe's offers.
Just watch season 2 at least id you are going to do any future episodes, so you get some context on some things. This makes you a better authority on the subject if you actually watch the series even if there is spoilers available on Instagram. They don't always give context on everything you need to know that makes something make sense. You have to see the episodes to get the full scope.
@@cartooncottage2024
Thank you for filling in my missing gap of knowledge! Yay!
That's a fair comment. I know the smart thing would be to actually watch the show, but I really can't bring myself to. I'm a highly visual person and the show's art style really bothers me. Plus I don't really want to deal with the frustrations the show has such as the reveal taking forever, the love square existing, among other things.
You're totally right though that the best thing to do would be to watch at least some of the show for context. I'm going to generally limit the amount of Miraculous videos I post due to my lack of knowledge.
I do have a couple more ideas for videos, but it'll be general stuff that I don't thin requires too much knowledge of the show such as comments on the superhero costumes, general comments about relationships, and a small note I have about how Adrien and Marinette became superheroes. So...3 more videos. Hopefully the topics will be so general that my ignorance isn't apparent, but...I hope you understand ^^"
I know it's stubborn of me to not want to watch the show, but I really don't want to feel like I'm forced to watch something I don't want to watch. Hopefully you understand ^^
And if that means you don't want to watch my videos, I'll completely understand that too with no hard feelings. ^_^
I'm sorry if I disappointed you at all...
I appreciate you watching and for your thoughtful comment
I really believe Chloe's character development was an accident. Which would explain Astruc's shock when people began to like Chloe, it wasn't planned. There is no plan for character development beyond shallow 1 episode liners. That's why particularly season 1 & 2 Chloe was the only one to change in the overall plot causing people to like her more cause she was the only thing changing. By season 2 the show got so formulaic and still is. The only thing i can recall that is different from season one and still impacts the show in a meaningfully is that now Zoe exists.
That makes sense to a certain degree. But if Astruc is so involved with the show and its writing, you'd think he'd be aware of what happens when you make someone sympathetic and actively have them try to be better. Idk how it was such a surprise that people would be on board for development. It's kind of weird...unless he isn't as involved in the story as we thought he was? Idk...I still hope they plan on doing something with Chloe (something good, I mean).
@@TheArtisticAloubell apparently he wasn't involved for season 2 for some reason. Some other guy was in charge. He decided to give chole a redemption arch to show kids that people change. But Thomas found out and was obviously unhappy.
I think that guy got fired because I never saw his name in the credit in season 3.
@@angelwatt1582 OHHHH Okay. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Still the smarter thing to do would have been to just go with where the story was going, but c'est la vie, I guess. Still hoping he changes his mind. X(
@@angelwatt1582 oh no. I feel so sorry for that guy. Thomas really is immature. Chloe is a 14 Year old fictional character, astruc.😒
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the real reason why Thomas was so in on making Chloe as awful as possible, was to make everyone like Marinette again.
Honestly it wasn't an accident.
Sebastian Thibaudeau, was the one in charge of writing season 2.
He and Jeremy Zag were planning on redeeming Chloe.
I think Rafiki from Lion King (original) said it best, "It doesn't matter, it's in the past. You can either run from it or learn from it." Chloe obviously can be redeemed, she has the perfect set-up. Astruc acts as people change overnight and really focuses on Chloe's mistakes, comparing her to the worst types of people in real life (which is ridiculous). Marinette herself isn't a perfect saint despite what the show tells us.
I'm still not a fan of Zoe and still see her as just a nicer, perfect little angel clone of Chloe. If she was just Chloe's distant sister who has flaws and tried to help Chloe without becoming the new Bee Miraculous holder, I'd be fine with that (and I like the idea of her being a terrible person in secret, putting on a much subtle nice personality compared to the blatantly obvious Lila and even being part of the reason why Chloe Acts the way she does). Zoe could be the favourite of the family, often belittling Chloe and being reminded of her sister's success.
Lion King (1994) is my favorite movie and Rafiki's quote is my favorite X333
It's honestly baffling what little faith he has in his own character. It should be a good thing that someone develops like that, but I guess it might be disrupting his vision of the show??? Idk. It's hard to know what he's thinking.
And yeah, I'd be so much finer with Zoe if her flaws were apparent and if she held literally any other Miraculous AND if she participates in Chloe's redemption. Otherwise...I don't like her purpose (unless she's a villain, in which case, yes please lol)
See? if the Zoe's character was like this, I would have already liked her.
@@TheArtisticAloubell honestly, your thoughts are my thoughts about Zoe. 😂
@@miss_chelles1338 **HIGH FIVE**
I don't like how Chloe's arc was just broken. You can see that she was changing. I kinda see Zoe as a second chance for Chloe's redemption. She can give her the love her Mother won't give her but will be firm, unlike her Dad. I hope something will be done with this.
Also with the suits, I remember a discussion how:
Chloe's suit is elegant looking and nice but has a cold yellow representing herself
Zoe is a wasp, looking more mean but has a warm yellow representing her kindness
Your redemption fanfiction was good, would be amazing if that happened
I too hope that Zoe is their attempt to get through to Chloe and help her reform! Let's see what happens!
Thank you
Zoe won't help Chloe. Even if that could be a good idea first if Chloe becomes a good person again is ironic. Second, knowing how are the writters Zoe will be only her replacement. Don't wait something good of miraculous
@@alexanderuseda4847 Sadness DX
Hopefully Astruc will change his mind!
@@TheArtisticAloubell I don't think so. There's not a development in Zoe as a character and being Vesperia is nah. Astruc hates Chloe and that's all, we can't do nothing. Zoe is going to be a replacement only
@@alexanderuseda4847 DX
She chose Kagami instead of Chloe because the former was having a date with Adrien, which was basically a poly date before Mari left them alone and didn't want her to have her crush. Marinette also screwed over her master in the process.
And then came Zoe. She came out of nowhere despite being the half-sister of a main character solved her character flaw in her first episode, got a miraculous in her second episode and everyone is praising how much better she is as compared to Chloe. It doesn't help that Thomas Astruc had a self insert in the episode, they guy who probably came up with Zoe as a FUCK YOU to Chloe fans he had a twitter fight with.
Something else that bothers me: Season 2 gave Chloe more dept and also introduest Lila a way more competent antagonist for Marinette and Ladybug, the perfect moment to start a redemption arc for Chloe to turn her into a lovable alpha bitch; someone who is not a beacon of niceness but still a (mostly) good person.
Yup, just a lot of missed opportunities and poor choices made in there DX
Zoe most likely was created in response to his Twitter feud as a way to get back at fans.
When I first started Miraculous I used to hate Chloe a lot (it was silly but I was younger ha ha) but I realized after a while that the problem with her isn't her personality or backstory, it's the fact that she wasn't a character - she was an obstacle. She was someone to be a brat and get another person angry, someone to make things more difficult than they should be. Maybe that's why the creator sees her as truly bad? Cus he can't imagine her in another role? That's how I see it at least and it's a shame, she could have been an amazing character. Also I'll admit your re-write made me cry a little, it was really good!
Edit : I'm not saying I don't like Chloe, actually I do,i really enjoyed her arc as she tried to be a better queen bee. This is just what i think - the mentality i mentioned might be why things ended up as they did.
Oh I totally get you. Yeah, I can see what you mean about her just being an obstacle. I think if the writers didn't intend for her to be an actual character, they shouldn't have made her sympathetic and give her a backstory as well as they shouldn't have written her trying to be better. If they intended for her to just be a bully trope, then they failed a bit...which is a shame.
I'm still hoping this is one huge troll and they do plan on redeeming her.
I'm glad you liked the re-write
This comment made me say "ooohhhh!" OUT LOUD, because I don't think you could be anymore correct. you freaking hit the nail on the head. That is so true about her character.
Honestly, you are so right.
A lot of characters in this show serve as a plot device to move the story along and het the villain of the week akumatized.
Your version of Chloe's redemption is somewhat similar to mine. The difference is that I had the additional idea that Chloe sees her butler getting along better with Zoe (and the rest of the gang) and so Chloe, heartbroken, runs away from home (her butler is the other disguised dad who took more care of her than the real one).
BTW your artstyle is beautiful
That is quite similar! That would be a major loss for Chloe if that happened, so I think if the writers ever decide to give her self awareness back, her running away could be a canon possibility.
Also, thank you ❤❤❤
Chloe deserved better and could of got so much character development 😞
Agreed X(
You're right, but thomasastruc unjustly took it away from him because he's a heartless artist. And it must be punished!
Yeah but the creator don't like her so he took all of her development away
I would change many things about Zoe. Here's my three-part-plan.
Step 1: BUILD UP
Zoe came out of nowhere and it shows SO BAD. It's so in our faces that she is literally there to replace Chloe, which is impossible because for better or for worse, Chloe is irreplaceable.
But... that could have been avoided if we added mentions of her all the way back to season 2. Where it should have been revealed that Audrey abandoned Chloe, and further more it should have been that the affair she had, ended in divorce with Chloe's father and she left her for her new/ improved family in America. This keeps the relationship with her mom the same (or maybe hurting a little more!), And also creates a rivalry between the daughters. Or at least, some serious animosity towards Zoe on Chloe's behalf. This is because she sees her as stealing her mum from her, being the reason Audrey left her and her dad behind, and being the "better daughter" that replaced her.
So have small mentions of her here and there. When Audrey talks to Chloe, have her purposefully call her "Zoe" instead of all the other words she mistakes her name for. Or compare Chloe's accomplishments to nothing spectacular, especially in comparison to her sister. Keep it short and sweet but add that fuel to the fire.
Step 2: Zoe's look
Zoe needs to be more than a pitiful replacement for Chloe and the holder of the Bee Miraculous. This can be helped with changing her look to make her look a lot less like Chloe, and due to her last name we could guess her father might be asian. So give her darker blond hair like her mom's or a dark brown/black to make her stand out in the family. Maybe even make her look a bit like Marinette (not too much! Again we're going for her own original character look). This could explain her racism towards asian people in general, and though its NOT acceptable, it explains the root of her problem (that being her projecting asian stereotypes due to a result of animosity towards her half sister and mom's affair partner/ second husband.). As it stands, the pink hair is ...barely acceptable and somehow it just makes her more bland. But yeah just don't make her look like a faded version of Chloe.
Step 3: Character.
Zoe is a nice girl....and that's it. If anything, she's bland and boring. Her backstory makes me suspicious though because putting ROACHES in her locker... I've been bullied a long time and no one will put that kind of effort in to hurting you unless you did something MAJORLY wrong, and her "playing a part and no one could believe who I was" story does not add up to the "punishment" she got. Honestly, I'm thinking she might be a villian too and be a much more terrifying version of Lyla. Someone with a nice mask but has something really sinister underneath... I just don't trust the writers to be able to pull that off.
But yeah Zoe needs more characteristics. Nice, bland, and a follower are not enough. Give her time to work on the flaws presented in her introduction, and have her take her time befriending the class throughout the season. Let her make mistakes and slowly integrate her into the group. She's had too much success/progress for how little time she's gotten.
But yeah those are my updated thoughts. This needed a little editing and I wanted to add a little more (because this comment was not long enough, am I right XD;).
Your ideas are SUPER good regarding Zoe. She had no build up whatsoever (almost like she wasn't thought about/created until now 👀)
She needs more development to make her feel like she deserves to be here cuz right now, her only purpose is to spite Chloe and that's annoying.
The show better do SOMETHING with her or she will be totally unjustified.
She is a less likeable version of Rose literally
I personally prefer Zoe to be a very nice girl, far more different from her step-family. But like you said, she needs more characterization and flaws to make her a relatable character. She’s nice and kind towards many, but she has major flaws to overcome.
For my idea of her flaw, it would be inferiority complex due to being a result of a cheating affair, having low esteem issues with herself, believing Chloé had a better live than she did. This would make her story far more complex and her relationship with Chloé more realistic.
there are bullies who beat someone up until they have several bones broken for NO REASON. agree with the rest of what you said but just because your experience with bullying wasn't as extreme doesn't mean other innocent victims' experiences aren't.
I love this so much. Chloe deserved a lot better than what she got. (At the very least, Thomas (hopefully) can’t hurt her anymore)
Thank you❤️
Definitely agree that Chloe should be able to change and grow. She is just a teen, and teens make mistakes. And having an abusive mom shaped her negatively. If the show doesn’t decide to redeem her and Thomas just claims she’s just a bad person, it just sends the wrong message that because she wasn’t raised in a positive way by her mom, she can’t become a better person despite the abuse or is just inherently bad. Doesn’t send a good message for other kids in similar family situations to Chloe.
Chloe could even be a parallel to Lila, seeing that Lila’s mom is a bit neglectful. Lila wants to have a closer relationship to her mom, but her mom keeps making empty promises that she breaks, as shown in one of the episodes. Lila seemed to learn to lie from these experiences and can’t seem to be honest and up front about her true self and insecurities leading to maybe a sense of bitterness. We could see Chloe grow and learn to improve as Lila’s arc begins, and as Lila spirals out of control, Chloe reaches out to her and tries to help her since Chloe knows what it’s like to not have a good mother. The show could explore how Chloe helps Lila improve on screen or end off the show’s finale with Lila making up to everyone and beginning to learn with Chloe supporting her.
If Thomas believes Hawk Moth can be redeemed, then it makes sense that a teen like Chloe still has a chance to grow and improve and isn’t just a static character.
Side note that’s unrelated to the video, the Instagram account Chlogami has a controversy related to one of their comics where Chloe does some racist stuff like assuming Lila’s ethnicity based on the color of her skin and wearing a mask and spraying Marinette with disinfectant (I think as a C0VID joke???). Chlogami has apologized at least, and I don’t want to stir up controversy or have anyone go after this creator. This is just a quick note.
HEAVY agree. And I didn't even consider Chloe as being someone who could help Lila change--that's a cool idea!
@@TheArtisticAloubell Thanks! And yeah, I found it interesting how both characters have issues with their mom and how they could work together to improve on themselves
i'm sorry but just because someone got emotionally neglected their whole life does not excuse or dismiss their present actions in any way. chloe was racist to marinette's culture multiple times and didn't even get called out for it. on the other hand, when marinette makes mistakes the show DOES call her out and she learns from them. my biggest problem with chloe is that whenever she does something problematic and hurtful, the show doesn't make her face any consequences or take responsibility to fix things she had done. this shows to kids that whatever she does is considered "normal" or "okay" when it's far from that. i just wanted to get that out of the way so you can understand where i'm coming from.
@@borisspivak6998 Uh, yeah. I do agree. I never meant that her actions are excusable in any way. Abuse never excuses bad behavior. The show definitely needs to hold Chloe accountable as well and the racism Chloe has really needs to be addressed for sure. The show does call Marinette out sometimes, but also needs to call her out on her stalkerish behavior too and completely misses the mark on that too. In general, the show doesn’t hold their characters responsible for their actions very well and if Chloe is to be redeemed, she needs to own up to those mistakes. There is potential for her to grow and learn and any person who was abused and did bad things in real life can become good people while owning up to their bad behavior as well. I just want the show to be nuanced enough to have these characters own up to their horrible behavior and grow to be better people.
@@justradiclesandco Marinette, in season 4, did admit her behavior in season 3 and that's why the writers toned down her crush to a minimum where they don't show her obsessing over him and that is character development. I, however, have no hope for Chloe in the slightest and she's even worse now. They already made her the main villain in the season 3 finale, so it's better if they just rewrote her out of the show because she serves no specific role.
4:23 - She summoned Kagami instead of Chloé because she happened to see the former and Adrien REAAAALLY close to each other. I believe she was confessing to him, and/or they were about to kiss, so she swept in and took Kagami away in order to give her her miraculous and go fight the Monster Of The Week.
It was clearly adone out of jealousy and to keep her away from Adrien, although that's likely NOT Astruc's official explanation.
Chloe is my favorite character in Miraculous, because I consider her the most "human" on the show, I really enjoyed her redemption in season 2.
However I was disappointed when Astruc (according to some rumors he can't stand Chloe's character) or the writers wanted to cancel her redemption, to replace her with Zoe in the superhero role ...
Zoe on the other hand, I consider her a character too boring and fake because she seems to have no defects and is loved by everyone, i hope Astruc and the writers decide to have her return to New York to her father.
If Chloe became a good guy, she could be a different kind of nice. Whereas the good characters now are all similarly nice, so their personalities blend together a bit, Chloe could be a bit spicy and sarcastic, but still ultimately a good person. I like the idea of the dynamic of the good guys shifting.
It really is a shame if the writers (mostly Astruc) truly are done with her character =(
I guess we'll see what happens!
Thank you for watching and commenting! ^_^
how is she the most "human" when she's a horrible person and doesn't even take responsibility for her actions? she's a selfish snobby, wanna-be brat who had no redemption arc in season 2. now, i'm not saying she wasn't redeemable, i am simply saying that throughout season 2, chloe showed no true redeemping qualities other than a few episodes here and there but then she just goes back to her usual self even after season 2 which means it wasn't any sort of arc whatsoever.
@@borisspivak6998 Her mother is a horrible person, how can she not remember her daughter's name all the time? Of course Chloè has made many mistakes and is full of flaws but that's why I call her more human than other characters on the show, honestly I'm sorry that despite her potential she was ruined by the writers in season 4.
@@lorecava3883 I completely lost hope for her in season 3 so idek why chloe stans still think she's gonna get a redemption when she didn't even have one in season 2. The thing about a character, even a villain, is that they always have flaws and make mistakes. BUT, just because one person has those qualities doesn't mean you should think that everyone else doesn't have any. Marinette has made a bunch of wrong decisions and she DOES have flaws. (this is for the ppl that are calling her a mary-sue). But her actions, are nowhere near as bad as Chloe's and Chloe herself doesn't even get called out for it :/
@@borisspivak6998 we have to thank Astruc for having ruined Chloè! fortunately season 2 seems not to have been directed by him. As villain Chloè is not interesting, Lila is more suitable for that role.
I think it would be really cool to have zoe and chloe share the bee miraculous, like, if the bee is needed but zoe can't go, chloe goes instead and vice-versa
That would actually be a really cool dynamic! I like that! ^_^
Y'know I was actually hoping Chloe gets her redemption arc like Any character..For example Zuko (ATLA)
Fern (Adventure Time) and many more...Glad to share..also from Thomas Astruc he based most of the mlb characters on his life experiences..Like Chloe (his bully).
There's still 3 seasons left of the show. Hopefully somewhere in there he decides to reform her! >.
People out there like Chloe can and have the potential to change, I have personally seen it myself. Some of my cruelest bullies I grew up dealing with I ended up running into again and turned out to be way more nice and caring, as they would immediately apologize for what they did to me and told me that they either had family, financial, school, and mental stresses growing up, there were other issues , this was just a few to name. But what I’m trying to say is, situations that can cause stress and discomfort in a person can lead to repressed negative emotions and them being released onto other which can lead to bullying. For Chloe, it’s constantly being shunned by her mother, her mother not being there for her (her father has his issues too), trying to show her mother that she is exceptional like her, and wanting validation from her, not to mention her upbringing in immense wealth. Basically, her mother made her this way, and both parents barely spent time with her and probably never taught her any important life lessons, like the golden rule: TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.
But I will also understand that there are people out there who are too stubborn to want to try to change for the better as I did have one bully who is very unapologetic about how he treated me and others, but it still all leans back on the upbringing of the child, I just hope he’s doing better.
Change is possible, but only if you really want it. Chloe and her family need serious family therapy/counseling.
Chloe being mean in a nice way would be so funny, like imagine "ugh dupen-cheng (idk how to spell maris last name srry) its utterly dangerous that your shoelaces r untied!"
I love how you did Chloe redemption arc, I'm a fan of the idea of Adrien revealing his secret identity to Chloe, I put that too in my miraculous rewrite, but it happens in a different situation in the 1 season of my fanfiction.
I love Chloe, she's my favorite Miraculous character, just because of her potential, and I really don't like what they've done with Chloe on the show, and that's one of the reasons I stop watching the show.
And because I like her so much, I made her arc much bigger and better than in the series, and in the end she becomes an anti-heroine.
Yay another Chloe fan! ^0^
It's all thomasastruc's fault.
The miraculous writers try to make Marinette a relatable mess, but Chloe is an actual mess of a person and we love her for it.
YES
I LOVE your confidence in making multiple videos about mlb without watching a SINGLE episode the AUDACITY and you get almost all the details right too bc the show goes at 2 episodes per episode and literally nothing happens
LOL
I love being the crazy lady who reviews MLB without watching the show XD
@@TheArtisticAloubell youre doing yourself a favor by absorbing plot events by ig and fandom i promise
@@pandoratheexplorer8211 You're not the only one to say that XD
I rlly loved your fanfic on Chloe's redemption 🤗, wish this actually happened but 5 seasons are over and Chloe is still suffering 😔
Aww thank you so much!
@@TheArtisticAloubell unfortunately it is 😭, but I'll keep treasuring the beautiful moments of season 2 where she was changing 😁, that's the real Chloe to me!
Somebody please make a Cloe redemption fan comic out of this
I would love that ^0^
Thank you so much for watching and commenting!
@@TheArtisticAloubell Your welcome, always like getting new perspectives on Miraculous and other things :)
You can watch fan comic that made by Matt-cave on tumblr. Although the timeline was after queen banana but he was more focusing on chloe and zoe. In his fan comic, chloe was acting normally like ordinary teenagers unlike this shitshow made her like overreacting bully gag characters.
@@Nanao_Ise7472 Thanks I'll give it a watch
"I'm a Christian" *instant sub* I loveeeee how you wove your faith in to Chloé's story. She is a CHILD and the trauma of trying to earn her mother's love (like Adrien at times...)
Thank you so much for joining me on this journey .
Chloe is literally a neglected child, i grew up in a neglectful household so i know what its like so I really kin her
I pray you're doing better nowadays!
*Reformed Villains have to be my favourite character roles*
My top 3 favourite redeemed villains
-Starlight Glimmer (MLP FIM:S5 Ep 26)
-Sunset Shimmer (MLP:EG)
-Melvin Sneedly (TETOCU:Halloween Special)
BTW Melvin’s is pretty much the Male Version of Chloé:
-Wealthy Parents
-Arch-Enemies with Protagonists
-Was given a potential redemption
-Went from a Hated character to a Fan Favourite
-Has a Backstory
-Has a stuffed toy *Like how Chloé has Mr.Cuddly*
-Has caused multiple villain triggering in the past
-Takes Credit for stuff he didn’t do
-Anti-Hero
-Sympathetic throughout Season 3 and beyond
Note:Your arc of Chloé is *much* better than the original Because they just wasted her from a dramatic finale,When they just use literally anyone else.
Fellow Starlight fan! Hurrah! ^0^
I absolutely loved your version of Chloe!
After the end of season 3 and the episodes Solecrusher and Queen Banana I absolutely hated what the writers (and Tom) did to Chloe.
I really found your story interesting how Chloes' redemption arc continues into season 4 instead of just rewriting Miracle Queen from there. It truly felt more enjoyable then the last couple of episodes that just made me feel bad for Chat Noir getting sidelined.
Aww thank you! I'm so grateful that you like my rewrite x3
Considering the show still has some seasons left, there's a chance Chloe could still get her redemption arc. So hopefully something good happens for her soon!
I get the feeling that Chloe's aborted arc was a result of infighting in the writer's room. Like some of the more competent writers in the show felt like this needed to be a thing, only for Astruc to turn around and figure out what was happening, and create a replacement for Chloe. I mean I love zoe, but she essentially was a replacement for queen bee / Chloe
The whole Chloe situation really makes me sad and disappointed 😭
I really hope the writers (Astruc) come around with her in the upcoming seasons x'(
@@TheArtisticAloubell I don't adore Chloe, but there's no denying she has potential that's demanding to be fulfilled and I wish that I would have the opportunity to adore her one day.
I think it's interesting that the reason he wants her to remain evil is that she is based off of his childhood bully. Writing and art are like therapy for many people, and I think the way astruc treats the show clearly shows that he has some issues, by which I mean a lot of issues, that he doesn't want to confront. I don't want to unpack his basis for creating Marinette don't make me.
@@Fairygoblet Rather than me adoring Chloe, its more like I adore her potential. Like I said in my video, I love reformed villains and she had the chance to be one (and technically still has a chance if Astruc allows the writing of the show to be fair/make sense).
I can definitely understand him projecting his issues into the show. I wouldn't be so upset about the situation had the writers decided to not give her character development and have her actively try to be better. Had they just kept her as the stereotypical mean girl at school, I wouldn't care. But since they did do that and made us sympathize and root for her, it didn't make sense for Astruc to just ignore all of it and take it back.
I get that the writers "messed" with his vision while he was off for season 2, but unfortunately, there's not much you can do about that. The best course of action he should have taken would have been to roll with it and accept that this is how the story is now. As a writer, I know that stories can change from your initial vision of it. It's part of the process and part of the fun because you don't 100% know how the end product will end up.
But because Astruc was so adamant on his vision staying in tact, he had to retcon Chloe's development and that's not okay. And even worse, saying that she is irredeemable is not a good message =/
Sorry...i didn't mean to go on a rant.
If all of this is the result of Astruc having some pent up issues, I truly pray for him that they get worked out and he finds peace. I just hope he works through them in a healthier way and spread a good message.
@@TheArtisticAloubell holy cow he was off for season 2? That explains a lot actually. The infighting in the writers room thing was just a theory I didn't know so much backed it up.
As a writer I find that I have the easiest time when I like all my characters, even when I wouldnt I'm real life. It makes everything flow more organically when you see them impartially. I personally think there's an aspect of wish fulfillment in a lot of professional media and it's okay as long as the author keeps tabs on it. Some people don't know how to exercise restraint for the sake of a good story. Not looking forward to ephemeral but I'm hoping we'll at least get some good lore out of it that Carries over to the rest of the show, like with cat Blanc.
@@Fairygoblet I don't know for 100% certain, but I heard that Astruc was sick during the production of season 2 and couldn't oversee much (if not any) of it. That's when the writers that were left (presumably) began working on Chloe's character development. But when Astruc came back, he didn't like what had happened, and so the reversing of her development began instead of him just rolling with it.
But again, that's just what I heard.
Either way, the current situation is a big shame and I do hope for good things to come for both Astruc and the show.
17:51
this is what I mean, shes an actor, so how do we know shes not faking her personality. If she helped marinette pick up apples to get a miraculous, then everyone in Paris should get one as well. Even lila because she got her un expelled.
Your character arc of her is the best one I've ever heard. It makes sense and includes everyone it needs too, unlike mine. You make its that everyone is okay with this and that everything doesn't happen overnight.
Anyone who is interesting (Adrien, Chloe, I guess Kagami and Luka and so many others) get thrown out of the way and I would dare to say its so that nobody gets more like than Marinette. I would love it if everything Astruc is doing was just a joke and your arc should be put into the show, but not as the main view. If your going to go like that, i think the story should switch to Adrien POV for most of the episode and should sometimes be in mari's pov.
O it should be in some kind off spin off show.
RIGHT?! I'm really hoping that the writers have some self-awareness and realize that everyone who isn't deemed a "bad guy" has the same sugary-sweet personality, just in different flavors lol They have to be aware of that, right? So adding another uber sweet character like Zoe is just redundant and boring. Hopefully she has some edge to her!
Also, thank you! I'm glad you like my version of her character arc, although I know various fanfictions have done an amazing job in giving her an awesome arc as well. If only the show did that too :'D
I seriously hope Astruc is trolling about her, otherwise its such a waste of a character DX
From what I've heard, you're right. The show/writers favor Marinette too much and don't allow others to shine. Especially Adrien who is arguably more interesting than Marinette and he's had like...what...1 or 2 episodes from his POV?
Hopefully things in the show get better sonn!
Thank you so much for watching and commenting!
I also want Chloé to return as Queen Bee in Miraculous Chibi as well since we got Marinette, Adrien and Stormy Weather aka akumatized Aurore. Since I saw her chibi concept design along with Gabriel/Hawk Moth, Tikki, Plagg, Alya/Rena Rouge, and Nino/Carapace which haven't appeared in the initial run of webisodes. And give Chloé her own websodes for total redemption and prove to Ladybug she would become a wiser and nicer bee superheroine and earns back the respect of Paris. And with her first websode taking place right after she defeats Wasperia, if Vesperia aka Zoe gets akumatized in a possibe two parter story with help from Ladybug, Cat Noir and Sabrina and Ladybug becomes her mentor and teacher.
Wow I love your interpretation I never thought of the handling of Chloe character in that way
Thank you! I'm glad it was entertaining X3
Okay. After ALL THE CHARACTER ASSASSINATION for Chloe from the latest seasons, I am sad to say that redemption just isn’t a lesson Thomas Astruc can teach.😥 It’s obviously been made clear that Chloe was based off of Astruc’s bullies and I think it’s plain to see that he still holds grudges for a VERY LONG TIME that carried over to Chloe. She’s practically not even a character anymore! Just a punching bag for Thomas’s grudges, and a worker bee to both Monarch and Lila. She’s merely a shell of the queen bee she once was, and that’s just disappointing. What’s even worse is that Audrey, her EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE and neglectful mother, will now be a lot more involved in controlling her daughter’s life at London, which will make her even more miserable and feel hopeless towards any chance at redemption. Thomas practically wrote the most depressing damnation arc for a girl who had such a big chance of turning her life around.
You got the gist of Chloe's... mess right, so I won't mention anything about that. But yeah, the biggest issue I've noticed with Thomas Astruc's tweets is that he is... incredibly rude and dismissive to a LOT of people, particularly towards anyone that questions his decisions and/or answers, often in an incredibly rude and condescending manner, and the only people he treats with any real decency online are those that don't talk about the show, or who just shower blind praise on every decision and choice he makes. He also has an infamous track record of going back on his own opinions and contradicting himself. A LOT.
You are right that people shouldn't attack him, as that has a history of ending poorly. The first time he was seriously attacked, he started a policy of blocking ANYONE he labels a harasser, a hater, a spammer, etc., basically anyone he doesn't like, or anyone who tries to talk to him about topics he treats as open and shut cases. Some of his apologists have painted it as him being sick of having to repeat answers but... most people who try and ask him questions would have no way of knowing if he's answered that same question, or one very similar to it, before, so his conduct is still out of line, especially when the person asking is going out of their way to be polite and respectful towards him.
One of the biggest things about Thomas Astruc's behavior, and how it relates to Chloe, is his extreme insistence on certain topics. He blindly insists that Chloe is not being abused, despite the fact that Audrey is openly emotionally abusive towards Chloe via neglect and indifference, and that Chloe is a privileged princess who is absolutely spoiled and has no redeeming qualities. What makes it worse is that he'll gleefully point out Chloe's bad moments, and brush aside and ignore any of her good moments. Several people have come out on Tumblr with personal stories of circumstances similar to Chloe's relationship with her mother, or just someone close to them that they held in high regard like Chloe does to Audrey, and have said that Thomas is wrong to say that Chloe is a privileged brat who is bad just because. Thomas just refuses to listen to ANYONE other than himself.
No to mention Thomas makes insane excuses for his characters, and constantly tries to portray the main protagonists, specifically Adrian, is perfect and can do no wrong, despite Adrian repeatedly showing his flaws and childish traits. Sorry for this long drawn out rant, I've just read a LOT about Thomas' behavior and attitude, and it just rubs me the wrong way to a massive extent. He inspired the creation of a blog specifically titled "TheImmaturityOfThomasAstruc" on Tumblr, also known as IOTA, and that should tell a person a LOT about what he's like online.
I've definitely heard of Astruc's rude behavior before. As I havent interacted directly with him myself and haven't seen the full circumstances and contexts under which he sends out the rude tweets, I still don't want to make assumptions about him or have people attack him. Even if he is 1000% in the wrong, which he very well might be. It's definitely one thing if he just wants to block the haters and harassers, but if someone is giving respectable, legitimate criticism, it's something that all artists and creators need, or else we won't grow. It is my hope that he does learn from his mistakes eventually so that he can write something of really high quality.
But yeah, I definitely, at least, have to call him out on his flawed thinking about Chloe and people like Chloe and how poorly he's treating her and her situation. As a writer, it isn't cool to ignore her development, and as a person, it's not cool to just say that this 14/15 year old with problems has no chance of redemption. It just rubs me SO the wrong way.
I know he's the head writer, but I'm really hoping the other writers/staff convinced him that Chloe should have a chance to be redeemed and that they have something planned for her.
Well, according to some stuff I've seen online, but haven't yet made an effort to corroborate, the reason Chloe got the Bee Miraculous in the first place was because some higher-ups wanted her to be a hero. Apparently, Thomas didn't like that, as he then went on to create a "totally intended from the start Fake-Out" with Chloe being a hero, culminating in Miracle Queen. As much as I disliked the reasoning behind it, it could've been a masterstroke.
Him making Chloe's Redemption a fake-out could've been an incredible "Take That!" against those who wanted to control his creative choices and decisions, alongside the other writers and directors, but it was handled sloppily, creating some build-up into Chloe's character and her sympathetic traits, but routinely dropping the ball and having Chloe get the short-end of the stick, and Astruc was somehow surprised that fans weren't happy about what he did. While Chloe's heaviest haters were probably elated, it was honestly just some bad writing to me.
What's worse is how often Thomas makes people act out of character or ignores his own show's canon for the sake of the plot, such as in the latest season where, after the mess that was Miracle Queen, every one of the Temp-Holders that Ladybug calls upon has had their identities exposed to Hawkmoth, the very thing that made Marinette decide not to give Chloe back the Bee Miraculous in the first place, yet she still continues to call upon them, with Hawkmoth actively spying on them to boot!
Another big issue is how self-contradictory, and in some cases flatout hypocritical, Thomas can be about the show and the characters. He has gone on record stating that the show isn't very deep and that people are reading too much into it, but he has also gloated about how deep and inclusive the show is, and how their are deeper reasons behind for certain character's portrayal and existence.
He REALLY likes using the deeper meaning excuse for Chloe, as he's actually stated to people who question why, exactly, Chloe is incapable of change, and he has replied at least on one occasion that the person didn't "understand what Chloe represents." Or how when people bring up Chloe's personal life and how bad it is, he crudely deflects to how rich she is and how she can buy whatever she wants, whenever she wants, as if that's all the justification he needs for her being a B!ct# and why she is incapable of change, allegedly.
I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but if you want to get some context as to what Thomas is like online, and get some empirical evidence about some of the things I've mentioned, you should check out the blog named ImmaturityOfThomasAstruc on Tumblr, as it regularly uses Screenshots of Thomas' social media as visual citations for Thomas' behavior, so people can't just brush the blog off as a salt blog that doesn't know what it's talking about. Thanks for your time!
@@kylemorgan2301 Dang =/ It's a shame that things went/go down that way. But something that definitely does bug me how Marinette was so concerned about Hawkmoth knowing the other hero's identities and yet she is still giving the miraculous to the same people whose identities were already revealed. If Astruc wanted to stay consistent, we would have an entire new cast of heroes with the exception of the two leads. It's a shame he's not catching onto the benefits of character development or...even following what he wrote =/
Thank you for all of the useful info!
The true Bee👑
She could be such a sweetheart if Audrey was a better mother to her. Let's hope S6 gives her more love than S5 with a comeback
with how miraculous has turned out i'm glad to say all that glittered was at least not just piss and fools gold, getting a few flecks that seem like they'll turn up a carat or 3
What’s even worse is that Thomas made an episode to make Cloe the reason Marinate stalks Adrien. That’s just blaming the victim far too much… He killed a flock of birds with a boulder.
also if i had to choose a miraculous for zoe thats not a bee,i would pick a new animal like something that represents the two faced type style or a animal that looks cute and innocent,to show zoes overly nice side she could be pretending to be,it would be like something similar to a crow or a raven,or imagine something like a wolf like the saying "wolf in sheeps clothing"
Oooo! A wolf! that would be cool. I only made her a fish in my edit cuz I realized they had no aquatic animals for kwamis (I know cat and ladybug have aquatic forms, but there is no legit aquatic animal).
But a wolf would be super cool especially if Zoe does end up being bad X3
@@TheArtisticAloubell omg yes fish kwamis sound cool :D also the edit was amazing very creative style an true sense we dont really have fish and wolf kwamis in the show it would match pretty well
@@arcticwolflover263 haha my edit really isn't that good. I was just trying to get the point across lol. But I'm glad you liked it!
Maybe they'll add new kwamis in the future! A random eagle showed up during the New York special, so maybe we'll have a fish or wolf sometime too!
A butterfly! Because from what I know about biology, although they may look majestic and beautiful, some butterflys have an disturbing diet of feeding themselves of poo, sweat,tears,blood and even full blow rotting corpses, so I guess it would be a good metaphor for Zoe's true nature of latching herself on people's good side! (cough cough, marinette)
@@rockhistoria2537 That would be neat! Although...aren't they going to introduce a hero with a butterfly miraculous in the future? Won't the hero from Brazil be like Lady Butterfly or something?
And I thought Hawk Moth already had the butterfly miraculous? O_O
Oooo wait. You know what would be super cool? If Zoe became the next Hawk Moth. That would be such a punch to the gut XD Then she really will be the butterfly X33
Your fanfiction is really good. It's so sad :c
Thank you ❤️
I really liked your rewrite and throughout it, no one seems out of character which when they are not it is a pet peeve of mine when I read fanfiction of miraculous and someone is out of character. You have my respect. Also, I noticed like yesterday that Chloe Bourgeois and Diamond Tiara have very similar roles to their respective shows, so to see it in a youtube video, that reassures me that I am not crazy
Thank you! 😁💐
That bugs me too in fanfiction when characters are OOC, so when I write fanfics, that is definitely something I like to pay attention to x3 Otherwise the story isn't believable )X
And I'm glad that I'M not the crazy one lol The two characters are very similar in many ways!
14:36 "She's probably not going to be akumatized anymore-"
Uhhh, yeah, about that...
(She is going to on one of the next episodes, at least I've heard that it could be a Sabrina character development episode)
😫😓
I heard about that. I hate it.
If her being akunatises 1 million times doesn't contribute to her redemption, then it's so annoying and repetitive.
Good for Sabrina development, but we have to bring down Chloe to do it 😖
By now all characters are empty shells. They can’t be unique and different from Marionette without being a villain. They have to be nice and bland as cardboard to be accepted bonus if they are perfect Mary Sues with the curvy bodies (notice only Chloe has no curves on her body “rectangular body type” and her sister and good girls have curvy bodies. Then again this show is written by a sexist man child.
much more unpopular than Cyrus The Great's opinion: Why the fk do we need Zoe when Sabrina exist?
:O
THAT IS A GREAT POINT
Exactly... Zoé is literally useless and easily replaceable.
18:50 I actually did this in my rewrite. Chloe gets the bee and Zoe gets an Orca miraculous (I made that one up to replace the rooster because I find orcas cool and the rooster is stupid over powered)
Oh! neat! ^0^
I do hope this fanfiction becomes canon ;w; it just makes so much sense writing wise, and character wise.
After Chloe's redemtion got thrown in the trash, I started to sympathaize more with her than Marinette and her Gal Palz. And if season 5 is anything to go by, That's Not A Good Thing. I've seen Chlogami's work before and liked it.
4:02.
Technically, Alya is the first person in the show to break out of Akumatization minutes after being Akumatized. while Chloe resisted before the purple bubbles consumed her.
14:48
Alou: Chloe will never be Akumatized again.
Megakumas: Hold my Koolade.
Fellow Christian here. I love how you suscinctly explained why Chloe's supposed irredeamability bothers you, I didn't know how to explain myself through this lens and I really appreciated someone putting it into words.
It's been a while since i've picked up may sketchpad.......9 months to be exact, but your work is so pretty. Inspiring, even.
Also, I heavily agree with the video. Everything that you spoke about makes a lot of sense. They did Chloe dirty, and she could've or can still be saved,ya knor.
Like, I didn't like her at first, but after I kept watching--as messy as the series may be-- I started to like Chloe. She's been through a lot.
Oh mah gosh, not the pun at 5:24
Okay, but the way you Write Chloe's fan-fiction is so amazing, and would fall into the storyline perfectly, and would not only benefit Chloe, but also give us more Adrien/ Cat Noir screentime since Miraculous focuses was too much on Marinette. So thanks for that
Thank you so much! I'm happy you like my art. If drawing is what you enjoy, you should totally get back into it again ^0^
And I'm happy you liked the video! Glad I'm not the only one a little annoyed with how the writers are handling Chloe.
Thanks so much for watching and for commenting! ^_^
Chloe had shown with the right push and guidance, she could be a good person. If she truly was irredeemable, she wouldn’t have returned the miraculous after being gently encouraged by Ladybug and Cat Noir and apologize near the end of Queen Wasp. She also wouldn’t have confessed after being lightly probed by Ladybug. She deserved better
Exactly, Chloe was showing promise, and I did not think of that Chloe seeing ladybug's rejection as her mother walking out on her and that is just sad. But regarding that fanfic I love that idea so much!
Thank you
Honestly, it would have made more sense to pull in Mireille or Aurore as the new Bee wielder, rather than making up Zoé. These characters were introduced in the very first episode, it would be easy to incorporate them more regularly since they are both in Marc's class at the school, and Aurore at least is another known victim of Chloé's bullying. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Mireille is shown defending and comforting Aurore right after Chloé bullies her.
marinette was too harsh and mean to Chloe. If she had acted as good and wise as Captain America by giving her one more chance and defeating papillon right away, then all that mess never would have happened! ladybug deeply disappointed me, so as punishment: my vote for marinette is a DEFINITE ZERO
It's all thomasastruc's fault
I had to stop watching the show after they did her dirty. One of my favorite characters who could be redeemed and be a wonderful role model to other girls just got b-slapped by the writers and labeled as an irredeemable villain with no hope of redemption while ego-centric marinette gets to be considered a “saint”. Yeah, she’s clever and has a good heart hut she’s a mary sue with attitude. Chloe has soooo much more potential and development and it was all thrown away 😭😭😭
RIGHT?! I really dislike wasted potential...especially with reformed villains. It's such a harmful message that they're doing with Chloe. I sincerely hope someone in the writers room convinces Astruc to let them follow through with Chloe's redemption cuz otherwise it's totally not cool what they're doing.
It's all thomasastruc's fault.
I want Chloe to be that one teammate which is just annoying to deal with, but is needed to save the day so you have to put up with her. Fun interactions! (It'll also be great if her powers reflected that instead of being a ladybug lookalike)
I think it would have been nice if Chloe, after some soul searching during her brief stint as Queen Bee, decides she's not ready/worthy to be a superhero, and decides to give back her Miraculous to Ladybug/Mari. Touched by Chloe's humility, Mari assures her that one day, she'll be ready.
Also, "A queen serves her subjects, just as they serve her!"
That was excellent. The fact that Chloe doesn’t know how to change and she thinks that she can’t is very sad. Maybe if the others actually tried to help her, then she would have become better. But that’s not what the writers did, which is frustrating. She does have the power to change, but it seems they didn’t give her a chance nor helped her.
thank you
From what i could gather, Mari didn't let Chloe help the time her parents were akumatized was because she saw the boy she likes with the competition, and decided to ask that girl for help so that she couldn't go on a date with said boy, so, she is partially guilty for Chloe getting pissed at her (Chloe's parents got transformed after all), does she admit it? no
Yeah, I heard about that 😤
That lack of self awareness is annoying 😖
@@TheArtisticAloubell Cyrus The Great is right when he says she became a Mary Sue (judging by his reviews) and that Master Su Han hasn't been proven wrong about anything he said, despite the plot saying otherwise.
@@TheArtisticAloubell i also have to disagree with Astruc about Chloe, she is too young to be irredeemable, also, even bullies like Chloe, or delinquents have good in them, for example Kayo Majiba from Machimaho, she is a delinquent that got accidentaly chosen as a Magical Girl,so she is rude, abrasive, and since this is an adult parody of the genre, she is very brutal to the monsters that attack the city, often reducing them to chunks of meat and blood, since said monsters kill humans,it is justified. Kayo has good in her however and it shows from time to time.
be careful!!! MAri might as well call both of them (the Venom could stop Loveater and the Wind gather the hearts) but CHloe HAD TO speak to her in a civil way rather than do worse
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT She would have, if Astruc wasn't so focused in undoing every bit of progress she made and assassinating her character. Don't even get me started on Mari just letting Felix, a sociopath who did worse than Chloe by bringing Monarch into existence, keep the Peacock Miraculous, if Chloe doesn't get a redemption, he doesn't deserve it either, he arguably did what Gilda Dent did on The Long Halloween, and just like the movie, that bastardized the story of the comics, she suffered no repercussions, while in the comics she disappeared from Gotham, after all, every citizen there would want her head on a pike after her actions caused a power vaccum in the underworld that was occupied by Batman's Rogues Gallery.
Fun fact: Thomas said he "wanted" to redeem Chloe, but in his words "I can't redeemer her and still keep her attitude".
Remember, he redeemed Felix changing his whole personality for worse, and also he redeemed Gabriel, yeah, that fucking terrorist who was a psychology abuser with his own som, and also the terrorist that didn't care about akumatizations just to get magic jewelry.
Your fanfiction sounds like it would be a great half season arch and it would be a nice in-between true story for her and doesn't need too much time for it. You really got that resonation in terms of trust
And plus that idea of her learning to earn what she worked for. It's great. I love that idea.
Thank you
My favorite reform villian, Sunset Shimmer.
i will be so peeved if the writers gave chloe a "bad ending" (miraculus induced coma)
also zoe is just...such a marry sue
That would be so heartbreaking 😭 I hope that doesn't happen.
I'm also hoping for some kind of Zoe development, as long as it's done right. Cuz as of now, she's pretty nothing.
@@TheArtisticAloubell yeah...i am constantly scared they'd write off chloe like this, to teach the young a lesson in giving into your greed.
...the worst part will be that no one will remorse for her. shes just be a scapegoat
@@ethantay4630 there's still 3 seasons left (at least) so hopefully they give Chloe a redemption and more development. She is so full of potential. 😭😭
@@TheArtisticAloubell honestly, season 3 left a bad taste in my mouth....and because of that i cantreally enjoy the season 4 so far...especiallt with all the stupid decisions made by the charecters
@@ethantay4630 you're better than me lol. I couldn't sit through any of the show at all
Fact that, you can get a lot accurate info by just readings from web, really give perspective on that the series just tells and don't show.
Yup yup! 😎
Zoey being a secretly evil person? Hey now that sounds so crazy that it actually could work and be a great idea for a twist villain.
Maybe include that in Bonds Beyond Fate.
ehhhh I have other plans for her in my story. BUT I'm glad you like that idea X3
OMG! OMG! OMG! the fanfic bit of the video is SO GOOD!!!
Thank you!
I'd also like to point out that as of in Queen Banana, the door in the show itself is self open for Chloe to become a better person. In the show itself, the door is not yet closed for self improvement and betterment. Thomas Astruc is a mastermind in redirection, diverting our (audience) expectations. So long as the show itself, as of in Queen Banana, has the door open for Chloe, I'm going to believe that her direction is up in the air. Even after Queen Wasp, and Queen Banana, the show itself, Marinette, Adrien, and Zoe themselves, are ROOTING for Chloe. Until they are not, I will also continue to root for Chloe.
Zoe's future is unsure, whether or not she is staying or leaving. I think she's supposed to play the role os betterment-ship, like Luka's/Kagami's transitionships.
I really hope that's true! I do agree with you, though. I believe that Chloe's expression when Zoe hugged her was an indication that she still has a heart and can change.
So lets hope for the best!
@@TheArtisticAloubell yesss! It's important to remember that Thomas Astruc will straight up lie to us to misdirected/mislead our expectations. I think he outright lied to us about Chloe to stir us up, it's got us talking about it, right? MORE SO if he just said "yeah Chloe will be a good baddies, just as she deserves," like we'd all be like "whoo! When?" But the uncertainty has got us talking, theorizing, even straight up ANGRY!! Lol, why did he have to talk about Chloe the way he did? Honestly I just feel bad, because like, "princess highschool brat is always going to be princess brat," and you know what, I don't even care if she stayed a princess brat, if she wasn't such a bully. I'd love Chloe to be a sassy ball-buster, instead of "women are only good if they are NICE AND GOOD AND COMPLETE THEIR WOMENLY ROLES AS EMPATHETIC NURTURERS," because that's not what women are, those are the roles placed/instilled on women for centuries, but that's not what women are, and it's sad to only reward women/girls for being "pretty, nice, empathetic nurturers." It's sexist and misogynistic, and as a female-wide fan base, a lot of us adult fans are insecure where Chloe's headed and how she'll be treated. She has great potential to be a great, amazing character, and many people need to fall, hard, hit rock bottom, before they realize how much of a little shit, asshole, etc they were before they change for the better, climbing up out of that well of despair and sorrow, face to face with their own toxicity, demons, bad behavior/habits, and claw their way out of it.
We've seen Chloe be nice, actively trying to be a good person. Marinette's not perfect, and has her own toxic behavior/habits, that are laughed at because it's "cute" and also centers her attention around a boy. So it's kinda interesting watching the show as it comes out, from an adult woman's perspective.
Also shoutout to YOU, I love the online TH-cam community, at least the few I follow, since most of ya'll are ALSO adults watching the show, and I love y'alls input on it. Sometimes we rip them all apart, like Mari's stalkerish and (her own) bully-complex toxicity (against Chloe especially. Like, I and we get it, but she doesn't face any consequences for her actions, even if she herself is being a bully. But she's also "changed" her behavior when she became friends with Kagami after they were previously "polite" enemies.)
But yup yup. I know we all know the existing sexist undertones in the show. I hope they stop making the three girls (Chloe, Kagami, and Mari) pine for Adrien. Honestly it kinda feels like some sadboy's harem wet dream.
I would also like to pitch in, while I love Adrinette, I wouldn't be upset in the slightest if Adrigami was still a thing. They did their transitionships dirty, it didn't even last a full 20 minutes, between the end of S3, the NY special, and the beginning of S4. But the end of S3 with them going their seperate ways there was beautiful. Also if Adrien ended up with Chloe, I wouldn't be sad in the slightest either. But Mari needs to stop being cringey around Adrien or it will never happen, and it's so cringe. Also am mad, need more Ladrien scenes. Mari, even as Ladybug, can barely say a word properly to him, and its not Adrien's fault for not seeing the similarities in behavior when they only have one 30s with eachother in that one episode where Ladybug drops him off in his bathroom to shower. Blind bat, they boy is.
@@anobody6564 I really hope he's just lying to conceal an awesome story for her TToTT
Something I have a bit of an issue with the show is how all of the good characters are the same kind of nice and sweet. Like...you can be a nice, good person, but not be sugary sweet. Chloe would be such a cool good guy (if handled correctly) because she would keep some of her bite and attitude as traits like that don't just go away. Like...she'd be the kind of good guy who wouldn't let people trample on top of her. She'd be blunt and get things done for the greater good (I think). The show needs that kind of variety.
I also agree about the couples. It's terrible that both Lukanette and Adrigami lasted less than 20 min on screen. The fact that the writers thought that was okay just astounds me. They needed several episodes each to develop and show the audience why the couples won't work in the long run.
However, I WAS hoping that Luka would find out Marinette's identity cuz he had been through so much and deserved to know the truth. I'm glad it happened, though I know he'll be burdened with this knowledge DX Poor boy.
In any case, thank you for your thoughtful comments
I cried during the rewrite section good job
Thank you
I feel like they could give Lila the development if they aren't going to pick up where they left off with Chloe. Yet again, I don't think they will because this show is...... The writers..............Thomas........Idk, I think Jeremy could have done everything so much better because he actually said Chloe has a good heart, just misunderstood and mistreated or something like that, which is true, she had the best potential out of everyone and deserved redemption. I love Chloe so much and hate how they ruined her, honestly really ruined my view on the show(and it was already bad before)
Ah yes, Lila. I've heard about her. I've havent seen anything about development towards her. But if the writers decide to give her legit development, I'd be down for that!
I actually didn't know that Zag had a positive view on Chloe! Hopefully his influence inspires the writers to go forth with a redemption for her ^_^
I'm sorry the show was ruined for you. But hey...fanfiction exists! haha
But who knows? the show isn't over yet, so maybe they'll surprise us all!
This makes me question what even was the point of making Lila quote "worse than Chloe" when the writers were going to double down on Chloe being bad and pretty much erasing Lila or making her a minor character.
@@JayRedGear That is very true. If Chloe really won't be redeemed, then Lila has no narrative purpose. Two bullies of the same type is redundant. If done well, Chloe would reform and Lila could be her foil or an image of what Chloe could have been had she not changed.
@@lemonsweets220 Such a passionate response, oh my goodness XD
I've heard that Lila barely has any development, so I definitely agree it would be cool to get some of that so that the audience can understand her more! ^0^ And Marinette definitely isn't perfect. It's okay that she has flaws, however, from what I hear, the show fails at having the other characters point out her flaws or Mari noticing her own flaws. And that's what makes it frustrating because she can't mature if she isn't shown whats she's doing wrong.
Maybe in MLB Awakening, we could see what we will not be able to see in the series since Jeremy Zag will be in charge c:
Like you said Chloé at the end of S5 she does come to her lowest point. Sabrina left her, her mother said that she'll will sent to new york and she will take control of Chloé. She currently has no one by her side. Her father is no longer the Mayor. and when Marisue tells her off the last time in Chloé's last appearance in S5. There was legit guilt on her face and she cried... My poor baby 😭...
And the writers used Chloé just because they wanted to cover up Marisue “stalking thing”
I've heard some people say Diamond Tiara didn't deserve her redemption but I disagree strongly. She's the elementary school bully. She's like 8 years old at most. She's a little girl. Saying an 8 year old doesn't deserve a second chance is stupid. It's the same case for Chloe; she's a child. She's the middle school bully. She has room to change
"I don't want to watch it. I don't want to"
Honestly relatable. Like I'll still keep in mind shows to watch later but I usually too into other fandoms to start anything new
thomas astruc has made it clear he has no interest in redeeming chloe anymore. which is a shame cause she had potential and an arc for a bit before he tore it down. but i wanna say your voice audio is way too quiet, especially next to your intro music- food for thought. sorry, but maybe itll help
That makes me so sad D'X Hopefully another writer or director votes him out of that decision )'X
Thank you for letting me know about my audio! I can't project my voice as much as I'd like to cuz I live with other people, but I'll try to increase the volume in the editing process.
Thanks for watching! ^_^
This is the BEST video on Chloe I’ve seen so far!! I love concept of how she could get redeemed and TRULY hope that something like that happens but I sadly don’t think it will:(…
Thank you
Chloe can change with the help of Zoe.
I agree!
Your idea is AMAZING!But there are many things to consider when Redeeming Chloe,and just bringing down Sabrina and her father probably won't be enough,cause you gotta notice that Chloe being this way is exactly like how her mom is.She tries to impress her mom throughout season 2-3 and IG 4 too.But Yah I really your idea on Chloe's redemption hope there'd actually be a possibility that it might work and happen
Thank you! X3
Chloe has shown in canon to be a bit more self-aware than her mom is (ya know...when she's written well), so I think if the one person she's dominated without resistance (Sabrina) rises up against her, it'll be a wake up call.
But that's just a theory X3
Naturally, the writers can do whatever they want, but this seems to make sense to me X3
The problem with Astruck is not that he writes bad stuff, but it's that he is petty and doesnt want to take any criticism. Eearly seasons contradict what he is saying and to save himself he finds bad excuses that get contradicted with a different scene. All he needs to do is just say he doesnt like Chloe because of his own personal bias and not cuz of some message he tries to send. New seasons and how Chloe is treated seems so personal and evil, a teen getting all alone and losing everybody seems, well I wont say it but it SEEMS wrong.
Same here; always love reformed villains/bullies. Pacifica actually is my favorite out of them, followed by Black Cat from the Spider-Man comics and Amity Blight and Lilith Clawthorne of Owl House. One of the whole reasons I wrote a fanfic that involved Chloe was because they had ruined her so badly in season 3. (The main reason of course being just putting them all into one of the biggest staples of Paris: the Catacombs)
It is a really awesome trope. Even if its overdone, as long as its done well, I don't mind, cuz I love the message of the reformed villain. So to see Astruc say that Chloe is irredeemable is really frustrating X(
Chloe could change in a show that wanted to write her well.
Thomas doesn't want to do that.
That makes me so sad TTvTT
Here's to hoping he changes his mind!
@@TheArtisticAloubell as much as I'd like him to, he won't.
@@crystalpokedude4329 TTvTT
I really don't mess with the idea than a whole entire human being can just be born a villain the way astruc seems to be making chloe out to be. It feels like the kind of idea you get as a kid and then are supposed to grow out of as you learn to be compassionate and think about the bigger picture.
Astruc sounds so unprofessional in his Twitter rants
I've never seen any creator have such a hate boner and fight with fans on the internet
18:52
Aloubell: if you can make an eagle miraculous we can make a fish miraculous
Me , who made an eagle miraculous: *sweating nervously* wait how did she?_
Lol
I was actually referring to the eagle miraculous from the New York special haha
@@TheArtisticAloubell OH GOSH I TOTALLY FORGOT THAT THIS MIRACULOUS EXSIST MY BAD
Sorry
I look at the situation with Chloe in the same light, as a Christian, I do believe Chloe should have been helped, forgiven, and shown a better way tbh.. but she was left out so much she became even more vulnerable to evil.. which is tragic
At 17:23, apparently Zoe's hero name is a play on the family or genus of some wasps.. not bees!
Love your rewrite
Considering Miraculous will still be around for a few more seasons, I REALLY hope they do something positive with Chloe DX
I'm aware Vesperia meant wasp or something--that's even more reason for me not to care for her LOL Wasps are the worst and have no other purpose than being the worst. I sincerely hope Zoe is a villain haha
Thank you for your kind words
@The Artistic Aloubell Zoe being a Villain would be a neat twist
And of course ( ﾉ^ω^)ﾉ†♡
They literally could’ve given Chloe a really great redemption arc but still kept her bite and edge something akin to Cleo from monster high
Aloubell: *shows Vegeta and calls him a good reformed villain*
Me: *squeals in happy Vegeta fanboy*
Vegeta is one of my if not my favorite anime character X3
Unpopular opinion: Vegeta and Bulma have a more realistic relationship than Adrien and Marinette.
17:21 vesperia is also named after wasps (vespids) which, on a better written show, would probably be a hint to something about her. knowing miraculous it's probably just carelessness. like, ants are hymenoptera too but don't see them designing a bee miraculous holder to look like and be named after an ant.
This is so great, I wish we got this redemption arc
thank you
i really appreciate your honesty and your maturity regarding people's opinions. i agree, people are free to have differing opinions and that's no reason to attack the people that have different ideas to yours (despite my frustrations with astruc's attitude towards both chloe's character and to the fans of her seeming redemption). i have frustrations but I won't attack anyone for them because these are my views and those are theirs etc.
anywho, i'm also a Christian, and I appreciate your openness to this fact as it is also a major factor in how I interact with, perceive, and create stories etc. keep up the awesome work! I've just subscribed to your channel!
Awesome! It's nice to meet a fellow sister in Christ! ^_^
Thank you so much for the thoughtful comment and for your support